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so i made a mistake. i had this suit for sale on Furbuy and it had sold to the highest bidder. i kept in contact with bidder through email, and upon agreement i shipped the suit with the agreement he would pay on the same day for suit and shipping. unfortunately the person never paid. after almost 2 weeks of having shipped the suit and tracked that he had received it. and many emails from me trying to get the person to pay. i said i would file charges on him if he does not contact me and pay for the suit in this email.
"I dont know if you have been ignoring my emails or what. But I need the payment for the suit. I have tried to be patient and nice I have bills to pay. I dont want to get mean. I dont want to bring forth legal action but I will if you do not pay what I am owed. You havnt made any attempt to contact me. And I know you have recived the suit. I will give you 2 days to contact me before I pursue legal actions against you. I do not appreciate being lied to or stolen from. If I bring legal actions aginst you it will cost more than $400. My law fees are free, yours arnt. Please dont make me do that. Please send the payment we agreed on. Thank you
Drift."
this is the email i received:
"Hello,
Due the fact that I'm guessing you have decided to sue. Below is a stated list of my defenses that may make you reconcider.
- Although www.furbuy.com states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.
- In the case above, I have only excepted the Fursuit a a gift.
-Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.
- Although I bid on www.furbuy.com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.
Because I have not caused any bodily or life threatening harm upon you, this email serves as evidence that I contacted you before my 18th birthday.
Please be advised, this now will make it an extreme difficulty to sue.
Good Day"
I am currently talking with my Attorney and a private investigator about this matter. and i plan to bring charges against him.
please share the word about my suit having been stolen. i mailed it to Chicago so please make everyone aware that this suit has been stolen and if this person is a part of any group that he be banned. Fursuit theft is unacceptable.
dont make my mistake and be too trusting.
Drift.
so i made a mistake. i had this suit for sale on Furbuy and it had sold to the highest bidder. i kept in contact with bidder through email, and upon agreement i shipped the suit with the agreement he would pay on the same day for suit and shipping. unfortunately the person never paid. after almost 2 weeks of having shipped the suit and tracked that he had received it. and many emails from me trying to get the person to pay. i said i would file charges on him if he does not contact me and pay for the suit in this email.
"I dont know if you have been ignoring my emails or what. But I need the payment for the suit. I have tried to be patient and nice I have bills to pay. I dont want to get mean. I dont want to bring forth legal action but I will if you do not pay what I am owed. You havnt made any attempt to contact me. And I know you have recived the suit. I will give you 2 days to contact me before I pursue legal actions against you. I do not appreciate being lied to or stolen from. If I bring legal actions aginst you it will cost more than $400. My law fees are free, yours arnt. Please dont make me do that. Please send the payment we agreed on. Thank you
Drift."
this is the email i received:
"Hello,
Due the fact that I'm guessing you have decided to sue. Below is a stated list of my defenses that may make you reconcider.
- Although www.furbuy.com states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.
- In the case above, I have only excepted the Fursuit a a gift.
-Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.
- Although I bid on www.furbuy.com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.
Because I have not caused any bodily or life threatening harm upon you, this email serves as evidence that I contacted you before my 18th birthday.
Please be advised, this now will make it an extreme difficulty to sue.
Good Day"
I am currently talking with my Attorney and a private investigator about this matter. and i plan to bring charges against him.
please share the word about my suit having been stolen. i mailed it to Chicago so please make everyone aware that this suit has been stolen and if this person is a part of any group that he be banned. Fursuit theft is unacceptable.
dont make my mistake and be too trusting.
Drift.
Category All / Fursuit
Species German Shepherd
Size 857 x 1280px
File Size 285.8 kB
That's pretty easy. Over here at least it'd make his parents responsible for the legal transaction.
Also, you can not back out of a contract after the fact, that's breach of contract. I think you're dealing with someone who ~thinks~ he knows the law and you should just sit back and let your legal aid take care of this.
Also, you can not back out of a contract after the fact, that's breach of contract. I think you're dealing with someone who ~thinks~ he knows the law and you should just sit back and let your legal aid take care of this.
A minor can back out of a contract if they do it before they are 18, but the issue here is that they misrepresented themselves as 18, in which case they may still be liable for damages. If you sign a contract with someone you know is 17, you're out of luck. In this case, though, they misrepresented themselves as legally capable of signing a contract when they actually weren't.
You can sue minors. He's probably pulled this scam before. Fortunately he's a kid, so he's probably an idiot and didn't cover his tracks that well.
You can sue minors. He's probably pulled this scam before. Fortunately he's a kid, so he's probably an idiot and didn't cover his tracks that well.
That's what I meant with 'over here' and letting lawyers deal with it. To clarify (and not to be demeaning towards you :)) I live in the Netherlands.
Over here a minor can engage in a transaction, but it places the responsibility on the parents/legal guardians. They are also responsible for nullifying it. So in case of a scam like this the response isn't "Well, they were minors so there's nothing we can do." but more "They're minors, so lets go poke the parents."
We also have a sortof a maturity age. At 13 most kids here go to high-school equivalent. At that point they are still literally minors (age is still 18 for that) but considered to be mentally mature enough to understand the consequences of the actions they take. After all, you're going to high school, often in a neighboring town, and often without parental guidance.
So whatever this guy pulled -aside from the misrepresentation which is illegal here as well- they would be royally fucked with that already if they were in the 13-18 bracket.
I had a very close call with that bracket-age when I got into a fight with someone who outright called my mom a whore during an arguement we had and I literally knocked a tooth out of their mouth when they laughed at me when I told them to take it back. I was still 12, turning 13 literally the next day, but as such I was still considered 'too immature to know better'. XD
Not exactly proud of that feat, but I can't really be ashamed for what I did either. Don't call my mom names if it only concerns the two of us, right? :D
Over here a minor can engage in a transaction, but it places the responsibility on the parents/legal guardians. They are also responsible for nullifying it. So in case of a scam like this the response isn't "Well, they were minors so there's nothing we can do." but more "They're minors, so lets go poke the parents."
We also have a sortof a maturity age. At 13 most kids here go to high-school equivalent. At that point they are still literally minors (age is still 18 for that) but considered to be mentally mature enough to understand the consequences of the actions they take. After all, you're going to high school, often in a neighboring town, and often without parental guidance.
So whatever this guy pulled -aside from the misrepresentation which is illegal here as well- they would be royally fucked with that already if they were in the 13-18 bracket.
I had a very close call with that bracket-age when I got into a fight with someone who outright called my mom a whore during an arguement we had and I literally knocked a tooth out of their mouth when they laughed at me when I told them to take it back. I was still 12, turning 13 literally the next day, but as such I was still considered 'too immature to know better'. XD
Not exactly proud of that feat, but I can't really be ashamed for what I did either. Don't call my mom names if it only concerns the two of us, right? :D
NO. No, no, no. Bullying him or calling him out would completely destroy an legal action against him. Yes, he's brought legal action on himself, but getting people to harass him could potentially be turned right back around on Drift in a court of law. Plus, it's a pretty scummy thing to do, even considering what he's done. Violence breeds violence, hate breeds hate and all that.
If you found their online information other fursuit builders (such as myself) might be interested in knowing who they are at least, for the sake of preventing transactions like this in the first place. I personally would not harass them, but I would like to NEVER do business with them EVER.
I'm sorry this has happened to you, i really hope you're able to work it out and get justice for this. Definitely a good lesson to learn, NEVER ship something out until it's been paid for in full EVER FOR ANY REASON. Unfortunately people just are not trustworthy anymore.
I'm sorry this has happened to you, i really hope you're able to work it out and get justice for this. Definitely a good lesson to learn, NEVER ship something out until it's been paid for in full EVER FOR ANY REASON. Unfortunately people just are not trustworthy anymore.
Also, because he is a minor, you absolutely CANNOT share any identifying information about him, since that would make YOU liable for any harassment, bullying, or the like he could receive as a result. I don't think you need me to tell you that the consequences for endangering a minor are quite severe. The legal system is your best bet, and he's crazy if he thinks he's above the law because he's a minor.
Were it so easy.
Yes, he's crazy if he thinks he's above the law. You never know what the judge says though.
Fine. You know what, I was wrong. You shouldn't share his name, it was a ridiculous idea. But. If you're going to get a lawyer in on this, I'd be more than happy to spare a few $$ to help seeing this resolved, and I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one.
Yes, he's crazy if he thinks he's above the law. You never know what the judge says though.
Fine. You know what, I was wrong. You shouldn't share his name, it was a ridiculous idea. But. If you're going to get a lawyer in on this, I'd be more than happy to spare a few $$ to help seeing this resolved, and I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one.
He just straight-up admitted to robbing you. Hello, sweet, damning evidence!
Still, not to be an a-hole or anything, 'cause you're a cool guy, but...that was a dumb move on your part, really. Trust ain't something you can throw around these days, sadly. Maybe if it were something really cheap perhaps, but definitely not on something like this.
Good luck with this little prick, though! Looks like you've got all the evidence you need! Mommy and Daddy probably aren't gonna be happy with a certain little shit very soon.
Still, not to be an a-hole or anything, 'cause you're a cool guy, but...that was a dumb move on your part, really. Trust ain't something you can throw around these days, sadly. Maybe if it were something really cheap perhaps, but definitely not on something like this.
Good luck with this little prick, though! Looks like you've got all the evidence you need! Mommy and Daddy probably aren't gonna be happy with a certain little shit very soon.
what kind of idiot admits this stuff in an email. being underage doesn't get you off scott free, it would just make it worse for you because you lied. i feel bad for his parents though, its gonna cost them so much more than owning the suit. even if he was to somehow get away with it no one is really going to like him for doing it. he would still be ignored or hated for doing that and everyone would know that hes untrustworthy. the suit has now been marked and there is no point of even wearing it. so that's going to more than $400 with all the legal fees and other chargers for a suit that he's probably not going to be able to wear.
If I recall correctly, theft in excess of $400 is considered a felony in most jurisdictions. I would suggest this being pointed out in a final email prior to contacting the LEO (Law Enforcement Office) in the receivers jurisdiction. Then if you hear nothing contact the LEO where that person lives as well as the District Attorney in that area. As to the age thing, I have not come across anything anywhere that states that fursuits are an age restricted item. This should mean that a minor should be able to buy and sell them from and to whomever that they so choose do sell them to.
Wish you the best of luck.
Wish you the best of luck.
I'm in the UK so I don't know anything about the Laws & Courts in your country. But from what I've seen so far is that you're going to win this. No Problem.
This little wanker has done this with the intention of stealing your suit. I'm sure there are messages of him saying that he'll pay for it (the bids he posted).
''Although www.furbuy.com states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.''
Then this little bugger has lied about his age and shouldn't be on the website to begin with. Hes not legally allowed to bid. Doesn't matter if he's 18 now. Still doesn't excuse what he did then.
''In the case above, I have only excepted the Fursuit a a gift. -Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.''
A gift needs to be agreed upon. You wanted to sell, not give away.
''Although I bid on www.furbuy.com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.''
If this kid chooses to back out of the contract then he would need to send the suit back. There's a difference between a contracted exchange and a gift.
I've never been in a situation like this and it must be kind of stressful, but I know that you're not going to lose this. Yeah, you should have received payment first. But he still needs to pay or return it.
Take a screenshot of everything he's said and bring it to the court! Emails, Your Furbuy ad and other documents. This little bugger must've thought he was smart and that can try use his age as an excuse to not pay.
Don't worry about it too much. You are going to win.
This little wanker has done this with the intention of stealing your suit. I'm sure there are messages of him saying that he'll pay for it (the bids he posted).
''Although www.furbuy.com states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.''
Then this little bugger has lied about his age and shouldn't be on the website to begin with. Hes not legally allowed to bid. Doesn't matter if he's 18 now. Still doesn't excuse what he did then.
''In the case above, I have only excepted the Fursuit a a gift. -Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.''
A gift needs to be agreed upon. You wanted to sell, not give away.
''Although I bid on www.furbuy.com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.''
If this kid chooses to back out of the contract then he would need to send the suit back. There's a difference between a contracted exchange and a gift.
I've never been in a situation like this and it must be kind of stressful, but I know that you're not going to lose this. Yeah, you should have received payment first. But he still needs to pay or return it.
Take a screenshot of everything he's said and bring it to the court! Emails, Your Furbuy ad and other documents. This little bugger must've thought he was smart and that can try use his age as an excuse to not pay.
Don't worry about it too much. You are going to win.
If you still have his address, why not send a letter explaining what's happened to his parents? If you address the letter to his parents, make sure to supply your contact details and say your suing their son for what he's done.
I'm a UK fur myself so I'm not sure how things like this work, but I wish you the very best of luck in getting your money back!
I'm a UK fur myself so I'm not sure how things like this work, but I wish you the very best of luck in getting your money back!
Error by misrepresentation of the purchaser is as damning as the same of the buyer. A Class 3 Felony (assuming the suit's value was more than $500) will at least cause the parents of the 17 year old a world of trouble. Also, if this was immediately before his 18th birthday, and because he was impersonating an adult, it's quite possible he'll be stuck with this on his permanent, adult record. I hope you have the right legal help, as I would love to see him slapped with a lifetime of having to check the box that yes, he is a convicted felon.
> His email hilariously shows he is manipulating the situation
- Although furbuy states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.
> So basically you lied to get something on the internet for free.
> Lying to someone, deceptively trying to purchase something you are never intending to pay for in the first place is literally theft.
-Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.
> Doubtful
- Although I bid on www.furbuy(.)com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.
> So then you back out of the product you recieved..?
- Although furbuy states that I'm over 18, I'm not. You have sent the Fursuit to a 17 year old minor without parental consent.
> So basically you lied to get something on the internet for free.
> Lying to someone, deceptively trying to purchase something you are never intending to pay for in the first place is literally theft.
-Also you did not mention payment only shipping information in your emails before you shipped the Fursuit.
> Doubtful
- Although I bid on www.furbuy(.)com, I CURRENTLY BRING FORTH MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND CHOOSE TO BACK OUT OF MY CONTRACT SINCE I AM UNDER 18 years of age.
> So then you back out of the product you recieved..?
Wow that sucks!
I'm having to deal with a buyer who filed a PayPal claim against me for getting two fursuit parcels muddled up then who promised once I'd paid even more money for the shipping to get the parcels to their correct owners has refused to give me my money.
It's a very frustrating situation to be in, so I feel so sorry for you. What they did was legally and morally wrong and took advantage what a kind person you obviously are.
Whatever happens from now on, is totally what they deserve. They'll soon find they made a very bad mistake.
I'm having to deal with a buyer who filed a PayPal claim against me for getting two fursuit parcels muddled up then who promised once I'd paid even more money for the shipping to get the parcels to their correct owners has refused to give me my money.
It's a very frustrating situation to be in, so I feel so sorry for you. What they did was legally and morally wrong and took advantage what a kind person you obviously are.
Whatever happens from now on, is totally what they deserve. They'll soon find they made a very bad mistake.
You ship it through the US postal system, or by private services such as FedEx or UPS? If through USPS; this may count as mail fraud which is a felony, and you have evidence of him openly admitting that he lied to you after the purchase was made, and opened an account on fur buy under falsified creditenals.
More info: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/.....mailfraud.aspx
More info: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/.....mailfraud.aspx
While there is no excuse for what he did. I would advise being less trusting in future and make sure you get full payment before sending out any product you are selling.
I am really sorry to hear this happened to you though. Theft is callous, especially if it's an item that once had emotional value to it. Good thin is, social justice takes care of itself in the fandom and if he even attempts to take this suit out, it'll be caught. Hope you get this resolved
I am really sorry to hear this happened to you though. Theft is callous, especially if it's an item that once had emotional value to it. Good thin is, social justice takes care of itself in the fandom and if he even attempts to take this suit out, it'll be caught. Hope you get this resolved
really unfortunate that some jerk just decided to flat-out rob you. glad to see that you're taking legal action.
the fact that they didn't outright declare that they were a minor is also really aggravating. all the customers i've dealt with that are minors have had their family members deal with transactions in some sort of way.
and as someone who is selling costumes as a minor, my mom is in charge of monitoring my costume auction activity along with me, as well as overseeing all of my business and emailing transactions. she basically acts as my art agent who is representing me in terms of my artwork. ;v;
i really hope things work out for you!
the fact that they didn't outright declare that they were a minor is also really aggravating. all the customers i've dealt with that are minors have had their family members deal with transactions in some sort of way.
and as someone who is selling costumes as a minor, my mom is in charge of monitoring my costume auction activity along with me, as well as overseeing all of my business and emailing transactions. she basically acts as my art agent who is representing me in terms of my artwork. ;v;
i really hope things work out for you!
This is insane, I can't believe people are so crule. Its funny though that he thinks he's so smart that smug email screwed him soooooo bad. He has no idea what he's done or what he's doing. With court costs, the suit cost as well as anything else your entitled to from his actions (overage charges for bills and rent you might have missed having relied on that money he is responsible for) he's basically given you his college fund, and I'm sure his parents will be so very pleased with how clever their child is after court.
It might take some time but he will get what's coming to him, good luck
It might take some time but he will get what's coming to him, good luck
This kid clearly has no idea how laws actually work.
Not only did he break Furbuy's rules by lying about his age, he broke the law by bidding on something while being underage. Not to mention, while it's possible that the money he would have paid (if there was any to begin with) was his, something tells me it was his parents.
Happy birthday, Mr. Thief Guy. Welcome to the real world.
Not only did he break Furbuy's rules by lying about his age, he broke the law by bidding on something while being underage. Not to mention, while it's possible that the money he would have paid (if there was any to begin with) was his, something tells me it was his parents.
Happy birthday, Mr. Thief Guy. Welcome to the real world.
I didn't read all the comments so if someone has already said this I apologize
The fact He entered into a contract under false pretenses and Admitted it ~ does not protect him from legal ramification. Plus he admitted to Backing out of the contract and that entails returning the object purchased~ by him not doing so underage or not is theft.
By representing himself as 18 on the site he's actually committing a crime of misrepresentation ... It's the same thing as if a teen enters a bar with a fake ID and you serve them alcohol , You are not Liable for criminal punishment because He committed a crime that put you in unknown illegal actions.
So he's completely in the wrong and is legally Fucked , Well him or his parents.
The fact He entered into a contract under false pretenses and Admitted it ~ does not protect him from legal ramification. Plus he admitted to Backing out of the contract and that entails returning the object purchased~ by him not doing so underage or not is theft.
By representing himself as 18 on the site he's actually committing a crime of misrepresentation ... It's the same thing as if a teen enters a bar with a fake ID and you serve them alcohol , You are not Liable for criminal punishment because He committed a crime that put you in unknown illegal actions.
So he's completely in the wrong and is legally Fucked , Well him or his parents.
NIU alumni sociologist/criminologist weighing in here. You can choose when and where to ask for help or advice, there's really nothing here that would hurt your case as some of the cranks above would have you believe, but there's not really anything to help either. I can tell you that the kid has just won himself an upgrade from a civil suit to a criminal suit though.
What happened is a case of consumer fraud in Illinois, and since the kid is under 18, he is eligible for parental liability in the state, which means that no, you can't take the money from him, but you *can* demand payment from his parents to cover damages resulting from his fraud, namely the loss of your inventory. You have his address already, presumably, as well as his contact information from Furbuy, right? Furbuy would be a good place to contact first, but I'd also start gathering contact information and figuring out whom to talk to in the Chicago police department.
Do this as quick as you can though. Something tells me the little shit is going to try to try to use an upcoming birthday to complicate things.
What happened is a case of consumer fraud in Illinois, and since the kid is under 18, he is eligible for parental liability in the state, which means that no, you can't take the money from him, but you *can* demand payment from his parents to cover damages resulting from his fraud, namely the loss of your inventory. You have his address already, presumably, as well as his contact information from Furbuy, right? Furbuy would be a good place to contact first, but I'd also start gathering contact information and figuring out whom to talk to in the Chicago police department.
Do this as quick as you can though. Something tells me the little shit is going to try to try to use an upcoming birthday to complicate things.
Yeah he's screwed, if what little I know is valid. At the very least, I believe he is accountable for several criminal charges, not just civil. But, I'm only familiar with Texas law and this is interstate. No matter though, with three professionals on your side, you should be in good hands. I wish you all the luck in stringing up this little shit, for the lack of better words! Give em hell.
I hang out with alot of lawyers, this strikes me as someone who thinks he knows what he's doing, but anyone with any legal experience can tell he's misinformed.
Best case scenario for him is that he just gave Drift enough evidence to get a small claims judgment against him easily.
Worst case... well, interstate fraud...
Best case scenario for him is that he just gave Drift enough evidence to get a small claims judgment against him easily.
Worst case... well, interstate fraud...
Wow.. I hope this kid, if he is indeed a kid, knows he opened a giant can of Furry Kick ass on himself. I mean, he basically stole a suit that he will never be able to use because if anyone saw it at a con, he would be confronted. I hope your case comes to fruition and the "kid" gets what he deserves.
Well he may be right that he's under 18, but that doesn't mean you can't sue his parents. And I'm sure that when his parents finds out about the lawsuit and the whole business about the fursuit, he's gonna see a world of whoopin'. Please, if you can you need to find his parents's e-mail addresses and tell them about this matter that you've not received the money or would like a return on it and if you don't, then you'll sue them, and they have their own son to thank.
as a lawyer I can tell, that the case seems hopeles for him, if you can provide some e-mails that you made an agreement.
However you may find it very hard to receive your money, if he lives outiside EU or US. At elast you won't get it soon enough.
As for the contractual obligations his 17 year-old defence is laughable. if almost all jurisdictions the age to seal a deal is 16. Also it often doesnt matter when you didn't know it to begin with
However you may find it very hard to receive your money, if he lives outiside EU or US. At elast you won't get it soon enough.
As for the contractual obligations his 17 year-old defence is laughable. if almost all jurisdictions the age to seal a deal is 16. Also it often doesnt matter when you didn't know it to begin with
I posted the results and outcome of the theft in this journal. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6659238/
In short I scared him enough with the threat of lawsuit and getting his parents involved that he sent it back in the same condition that I sold it in.
In short I scared him enough with the threat of lawsuit and getting his parents involved that he sent it back in the same condition that I sold it in.
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