In the X community Arf is....
18 years ago
Much to-in and fro-ing over art and artists, this morning. Some good stuff's being said. This subject's like a blue whale; it surfaces every now and again. The conflict between the limitations of the fandom (any fandom) and the folks who chafe at those leads versus those who don't has enough of a varied root system that I don't intend to explore it deeply. What you're about to read (should you choose to read it) comes from my own musings on the subject as a fringe member of the furry community and as a professional artist, a successful freelancer with a lotta years behind my belt.
I think most artist folks in any fandom are doing it for fun. Fun should always be a core element of an artist's life, but the difference between a professional and a fan is drive, nine times out of ten. There's no way to instill drive in someone, as much as you may want to. And to a certain extent, the desire to push a fellow artist is misplaced. It's their choice to make. Mind you, it hurts when you see folks who truly could make it if they tried, and you *want* them to succeed in the worst way....but they get to measure success on their own terms.
The primary danger of any fandom lies in the word "safety". It's the reason the vast majority of the top folks in any fandom don't have a hope of making it in the larger world. Fandom is a great big down pillow. It's comfortable, welcoming, safe. The bar is set much lower in a fandom. You don't have the All-Powerful Engines of Industry pushing the threshold for the betterment of the stockholders and the board members (with a few peanuts left over for the likes of you and me). As you feed the fandom's wants, you turn your eyes away from what the larger world demands. Your work suffers accordingly.
Now, this pathway exists in the professional world, too. It's a standard track in life. Mostly you get caught on it. It's not something you seek out. External pressures guide you there, and it's up to you to stay awake and aware. It's called "pigeonholing". Maybe you're good at landscapes, or painting faces, or logos, or whatever. Pigeonholing is a potential in any given division of the art market.
Fandom...any fandom...is one gigantic pigeonhole.
Here's the pattern, in a nutshell. Artist enters the fandom. This artist has potential, maybe a lot. Gets great feedback. Draws more. Skills improve. Gets still more praise. Finds likeminded artists, gets plugged into the community. Starts to feel good about their work, starts getting some confidence to shoot for the Professional World. Puts a book together and tries it. Catches a fist in the teeth. Retreats to fandom, licks wounds.
Here lies the pivotal moment that separates the person with fire from the ones who will stick with fandom. The professional world isn't a world full of sharks. I wouldn't have met some of my dearest friends were it not for my professional career. The point is, I did that track I just described, stewed for a bit, and came back swinging. And I made it. I'm no Michaelangelo, but I make an excellent income and I have life on my own terms.
Therein lies the choice, because if you want to make it in the professional world, you have to leave the nest, and that nest is Fandom.
There's nothing "wrong" with doing art for fun! Not a thing wrong with enjoying a fandom for what it has to offer: community, support, encouragement, friendships. But for an artist, it's easy for fandom to act as a set of blinders. It WILL cap your abilites. Any fandom has a popular look, usually copped from some source in the larger world, but the current tends to sweep the more imaginative people to the edges and promote those who best feed the desires of the masses. Follow that current and I guarantee the work you make won't get you jack in the commercial world. The bar just isn't set high enough.
The recipe for making it in the professional world is a simple one. Don't confuse "simple" with "easy"!! But it IS simple: work like hell on your skills and imagination. Go to museums and events, check out the work of those employed in the fields you want to plant yourself. THERE'S the mark you've got to hit. Work work work. No time for fan art, little time for friends and fun. That liesure time will come later, when you've established a foothold. You won't get that latitude in the beginning.
The people who make it in the professional world fight, and fight, and fight some more to make it. Talent isn't always the deciding factor. Stubbornness and timeliness swing much greater weight in this equation. I know. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I've seen the truth of this so many times I've stopped counting.
Art's about love. Love can be strong as steel or fragile as a rose petal. The commercial world can crush that love. It's a very real danger. You need to think about it seriously if you want that gold ring. What I have, I have because I always saw myself as earning my keep through my art. That doesn't make me better or worse than anyone in "fandom". I made a choice.
I'll bring this full circle. Fandom is a place to grow and even flourish. It does nurture. It can also smother you. Like any good drug, it lulls you into thinking you're totally in control no matter how deep you sink. No part of your life should rule you. Let fandom move you along but, if your sights are aimed high, let it be a place you return to now and then, like the place where you grew up.
Don't let the politics, the hyperbole and most of all, the praise, rule you.
I think most artist folks in any fandom are doing it for fun. Fun should always be a core element of an artist's life, but the difference between a professional and a fan is drive, nine times out of ten. There's no way to instill drive in someone, as much as you may want to. And to a certain extent, the desire to push a fellow artist is misplaced. It's their choice to make. Mind you, it hurts when you see folks who truly could make it if they tried, and you *want* them to succeed in the worst way....but they get to measure success on their own terms.
The primary danger of any fandom lies in the word "safety". It's the reason the vast majority of the top folks in any fandom don't have a hope of making it in the larger world. Fandom is a great big down pillow. It's comfortable, welcoming, safe. The bar is set much lower in a fandom. You don't have the All-Powerful Engines of Industry pushing the threshold for the betterment of the stockholders and the board members (with a few peanuts left over for the likes of you and me). As you feed the fandom's wants, you turn your eyes away from what the larger world demands. Your work suffers accordingly.
Now, this pathway exists in the professional world, too. It's a standard track in life. Mostly you get caught on it. It's not something you seek out. External pressures guide you there, and it's up to you to stay awake and aware. It's called "pigeonholing". Maybe you're good at landscapes, or painting faces, or logos, or whatever. Pigeonholing is a potential in any given division of the art market.
Fandom...any fandom...is one gigantic pigeonhole.
Here's the pattern, in a nutshell. Artist enters the fandom. This artist has potential, maybe a lot. Gets great feedback. Draws more. Skills improve. Gets still more praise. Finds likeminded artists, gets plugged into the community. Starts to feel good about their work, starts getting some confidence to shoot for the Professional World. Puts a book together and tries it. Catches a fist in the teeth. Retreats to fandom, licks wounds.
Here lies the pivotal moment that separates the person with fire from the ones who will stick with fandom. The professional world isn't a world full of sharks. I wouldn't have met some of my dearest friends were it not for my professional career. The point is, I did that track I just described, stewed for a bit, and came back swinging. And I made it. I'm no Michaelangelo, but I make an excellent income and I have life on my own terms.
Therein lies the choice, because if you want to make it in the professional world, you have to leave the nest, and that nest is Fandom.
There's nothing "wrong" with doing art for fun! Not a thing wrong with enjoying a fandom for what it has to offer: community, support, encouragement, friendships. But for an artist, it's easy for fandom to act as a set of blinders. It WILL cap your abilites. Any fandom has a popular look, usually copped from some source in the larger world, but the current tends to sweep the more imaginative people to the edges and promote those who best feed the desires of the masses. Follow that current and I guarantee the work you make won't get you jack in the commercial world. The bar just isn't set high enough.
The recipe for making it in the professional world is a simple one. Don't confuse "simple" with "easy"!! But it IS simple: work like hell on your skills and imagination. Go to museums and events, check out the work of those employed in the fields you want to plant yourself. THERE'S the mark you've got to hit. Work work work. No time for fan art, little time for friends and fun. That liesure time will come later, when you've established a foothold. You won't get that latitude in the beginning.
The people who make it in the professional world fight, and fight, and fight some more to make it. Talent isn't always the deciding factor. Stubbornness and timeliness swing much greater weight in this equation. I know. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I've seen the truth of this so many times I've stopped counting.
Art's about love. Love can be strong as steel or fragile as a rose petal. The commercial world can crush that love. It's a very real danger. You need to think about it seriously if you want that gold ring. What I have, I have because I always saw myself as earning my keep through my art. That doesn't make me better or worse than anyone in "fandom". I made a choice.
I'll bring this full circle. Fandom is a place to grow and even flourish. It does nurture. It can also smother you. Like any good drug, it lulls you into thinking you're totally in control no matter how deep you sink. No part of your life should rule you. Let fandom move you along but, if your sights are aimed high, let it be a place you return to now and then, like the place where you grew up.
Don't let the politics, the hyperbole and most of all, the praise, rule you.
FA+

Well said!
Thanks for reading it. I could prolly have said the same thing with half the words! oiy.
One thing though..
I am so.. so..
so glad...
I'm not doing art for a living XP
Your whole thing about leaving the nest, I get it, it just scared me a lill' xD
Oh and well said. :}
I love drawing anthro stuff. I imagine I always will. Only thing you need be afeared of, like I said, is turning away from the world. Anything can help you do that, from model trains to cocaine. Is all about choices.
*hugs* Thankies, bean.
Anyway, now I'm just rambling, but point is that I agree with you.
My message to you would be: hold on to your desire. Check it against what you're doing at present, as when you went through your sketchbooks and found how you've changed direction and aren't completely satisfied with yourself. (One should never be totally satisfied with one's art!)
Most of all, don't give up. Getting the dream is all about the fight. It's okay to switch dreams, too; I think that gets short shrift in our culture. Still, if it's art you want, fight to get it.
And I, for one, believe in you.
*hugs*
I dotnthinkI cna really bea pro artist because i dotn really fight, I dunno but I am becoming happy with who I am here in this place
I understand Thorndraco's feelings. I used to share them. Maybe time's mellowed me, I dunno.
>*)
I miss you too, bean. With me being down in SoCal, though, we just might end up seeing more o' each udda! *hugs*
That's really the only thing I'm bitter about honestly, that everybody appears more responsive to negativity than to the positive.
this sort of insight only makes my current regret even more profound, courtesy of impending graduation. that i wish, prior to transferring to a four-year institution, that i had stopped pussyfooting around due to fears of insecurity, failure, and poor work ethic, and pursued my current dreams (animation) much more directly and honestly.
oh well, so long as i'm still alive and there's a tomorrow to look towards, i can always aim for that dream as i should have been aiming so, when i've squared other issues in my life away first.
thanks for this journal. coming from a professional, the message has a lot of added significance to how i personally take it. :)
Dude, we're all wet-behind-the-ears about soemthing. Keeps life essiting that way. ;)
Actually part of what you say is what I thought when I found out about furaffinity and joined a few weeks back. At the moment I'm doing it for fun and I'm not sure about commisioning because my normal work pays a lot better than commissions would, but than again those might be more fun.
The bar is set lower, actually very low in comparison to the professional world out there. That's part of what makes drawing famdom so magnetic. Praise is so much more pleasing than criticism (but praise won't make you improve as much). A drug, just like you said.
And I was shocked that people point out femdom artist xyz as their favourite artist (not only famdom artist, but *the* favourite artist) when there's Rembrand around, or at least he was hehe. But that's another topic entirely and after all it's a matter of personal preference and taste.
I guess one of the most important things is to not get rusty. Never stop improving, check new styles, meet new people, take chances etc. Don't let yourself get lulled as you put it.
Thanks again, great journal entry!
I know part of what keeps me going is a healthy bit of worry. Am I doing my best? What could I do to improve? Yadda yadda. "Comfortable" is my enemy. He's a seductive bastard. That's the problem.
Hey, glad you found it helpful! *hugs*
I just meant it's a pity to see that there are people around that don't seem to know there's art outside of famdom and comics. Whereas the latter two are also more of a "craftwork" to me than real "art". Please don't get that wrong, craftwork is fine! Actually it's a lot better to be a well fed craftsman than a starving artist genius! :D
Somehow that reminds me of my youth where I loved comic style digital drawings (like those I do here, what a contradiction! lol) and couldn't get warm with classic artists. I was always thinking "My art teacher and mother are nuts, that's so old fashioned, iks!" But eventually that changed to quite the opposite once you dig deeper into it. :)
I love so many different things, it's hard for me to understand why people *wouldn't* want to know about 'em. Like I said, is my own stuff cropping up there. It took me a while to warm up to the Fauvist movement (pun intended) but once I did, it opened up whole worlds to me.
'sides, ye get points for knowing the refermince!!
Check:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/.....f_portrait.jpg
The light. The values.
I couldn't do that now. Maybe one day, but uh we'll see about that lol.
I wish there had been camcorders around and they'd filmed him painting one of those. :/
Praise Bob Ross, even when I don't like his art he does show how to do it.
Practice practice practice! It's the truth and it works. Let's both keep hammering away!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:.....rätt_i_rött_(1915).jpg
Wikipedia, lol, I should have looked there first :P
Motherfucker....!
I love the light in that window, how he just NAILED it, yet it doesn't distract. DAMN.
I'm gonna have to buy his damn book.
Really though, I'm really glad you had this to say. I'm sure it would help me, as well as a LOT of other people, to really take heed of these words. It's all I can do just to get a little help, and I think this would help a lot.
Anything I know, I'm happy to share. There really aren't any secrets in art, anyway. I'm glad I can help, that's all.
*hugs*
With art, the challenge never ever ends. That's part of what I love about it. Even when it makes me want to tear out what hair I have left. I'm happy to help others skip over the stuff that made me stumble, if I can.
I've tried, failed, and tried again and I'm happy that I didn't give up otherwise I never would have gotten the experiences I have. It's like falling off the bike, keep trying till you get it right. There are always bumps and pitfalls to work through, the road is never a straight one, but who wants a boring road anyway? Make me scale those mountains!
Of course, you manage to say it without sounding angry. I always feel like I come off as an ass.
It's smart to stick to fan level if you recognize that, in order to make a go of it in the "real world", you'd lose all your love for doing art. It's not worth the sacrifice. I only get my dander up (and only a little, nowadays) when people talk about how "pro" they are, or how so-and-so is "better than many pros out there". Have done with the ego-building! Go and find out if you can make it, if that's your thing. I hate it when people posture.
In the macrocosm, it's the typical problem of art: everyone thinks they're an expert, but has little to no information. They talk about how 'modern' art is this and that, but don't realize they're talking about a few specific pieces out of a massive variety, that they don't know the reasons for the piece, and that what they're talking about is 'modern' art from ten or twenty years ago, as it was portrayed in media to mock it. Even worse, they'll ignore older, more realistic art because it's not a furry, and remain totally oblivious to just how much depth there is in these great paintings, statues, and what have you.
I mean, you're welcome to have your own simple, self-serving tastes, but don't get an ego about only looking at art for shallow reasons. That's the lesson I think you were going for there: it's not wrong to remain shallow, and it is wrong to decry that which isn't shallow. It's all about individual goals.
I realize how that sounds. I don't mean to say that we don't have top-flight artists in (or related to, or recently were members of) this fandom. What makes it the shallow end has to do with the nature of the pool, not the character of the swimmers. I tried hard to make that clear and it seems like I managed it, for the most part.
Fandom's a great and safe place to get started. Hell, it's the first fandom I ever jumped into, which has a lot to do with why I continue to participate in my own quirky way.
I dig what you're saying regarding art's variety and people's occasional resistance to absorbing what the arts, all of 'em, have to offer. Art history's COOL! So much neat stuff to see and learn! It's hard to get why some people fight learning so hard.
I do think I understand why people resist art, though... it's hard to access. It's easy to look at some draying of a dragon totally kicking some ass, and be all like, "this is sweet!", but it's a lot harder to look at Matisse, and get the layers of meaning, perceptual and ideological, built up into a painting which, at its base level, is sort of dull.
Really modern art compounds this even more. If you go to a museum and see a painted American flag, it's hard to appreciate it. Once the point of the piece is explained, it's much easier, but that's just it: you need a context that denies the casual observer.
It makes me old-school, maybe a curmudgeon, but I accept that when I say: if you have to explain it, wipe it and start over. You blew it.
Art should elicit *some* kind of visceral reaction from a veiwer, dammit. That doesn't mean it needs to be realistic. It doesn't even need to be representational in my view. It should strike something inside you, and while that resonance may not be exactly what the artist was after, well...that's part of the dance between artist and audience. You have to give up that territory to your viewer.
Your values here strike me as the difference between illustrators and fine artists. My mother was an illustrator, so I got to hear about that a lot.
Sounds to me like you're pretty comfortable in your skin, sir. Seems like the more comfortable you are in your skin, the easier it is to let others have their views. At least that feels right to me. I used to do a leetle too much preaching! ;)
That Illustration vs. Fine Art thing, though.... There's some preachy, insufferable asses. Calling illustration prostitution when it begs a fraction of the price, calling it simplistic when the transmission of an idea is all important... I'm definitely on the side of the illustrators.
I'm not talking about changing the entire fandom.
That's a part of it yes. If I could be more precise in an explination I would but I'm not sure I could sum it all up in any sensical way.
People like me get ignored for what can easily be a marketable talent, like the wildlife images, guestures and figures I'm so obsessed with sometimes but never upload because no one ever cares. I do a doodle of some nude cartoony fox-girl however, and suddenly I get attention. If you're foundation or focus and self-confidence is shaky, like mine often is, it's a tough problem.
It's so easy to settle for less because everyone else pays attention to that around here and there seems to be so little suport for people who have interests and talents elswhere or apart from the expected. I don't mean to sound rude or demeaning, but simple minds like simple material, not that there's anything deeply wrong with being simplistic, unless you want more, but it seems you rarely find open minds to other ideas and expression inside a fandom. It's a fandom after-all. =} Very specific interest indeed.
I'm thankful for people like you because of that. You've got an open mind and a well-rounded understanding of life outside the fandom and that helps to guid and strengthen and encourage the artists who's sights might be set elsewhere, but don't know if they can actually make it.
Like me. =)
Thanks for the perspective and the words of advice and wisdom. Tiggy now feels a little more confident and a little less alone!
Limitation is what I feel you run into when you turn yourself over to the very specific and limited desires of others.
I have to have a FA and DA account because the fox girls really only get attention here and the figure drawing really only gets attention there. =P Limited and specific markets.
I used to be a sci-fi, anime and fantasy loving freak. I started doing furry and now I realise for the last 5 years or so I've done about nothing more then furry work. I told myself I'd never stoop to porn but god damn it the views and favs are too hard to resist!
Because otherwise, you go unnoticed for the most part. =\
Chase this dragon because *you* want it. Don't give the reactions of others too much weight. I know, I know...it really hurts, that feeling like all your art's going into a vacuum. Take aim at where you want to go with your work, and fight to get there. You'll find enough people like me along the way who'll be your cheerleaders to help you keep going.
*hugs*
I don't have the foggiest what I'm chasing anymore. That's the truth behind it. Sad.
I apriciate to no end wise words like yours and genuine support, and just flat out cool people like you. =3 Thank you.
For now my only real goal is my BFA degree and I'll keep pushing that forward, even when I don't want to, which is too frequent. >.>
Learn all you can! Also give yourself permission to play. Play and learning are inextricably linked. You don't have to figure out everything right now. Make sure to *make* time to figure it out, yes...but don't feel like not knowing makes you a failure. You've got time. Go out there and live life! Fear nothing, woman. Go out there and conquer.
More wise words!
Tomorrow I will conquer figure and guesture drawings (and maybe anatomy)!
But only if I can conquer this cold first. ='(
Sometimes being an artist is stinky. Struggle on and keep getting up off the mat when you get knocked down, that's the best thing I can tell you.
Now go get well!! :D
*hugstight*
I love my job, I absolutely do. Honestly, being self-employed isn't a bag of fun no matter what the profession is. 's a lot of work. :./
reading this was like plunging my head into a tub of ice water. these opinions mean a great deal to me. thank you.
The problem then isn't that furry artists aren't good. The problem is that furry artists are good at what the furry fandom likes, and the furry fandom's likes don't reflect the larger market at all. There are only a few kinds of furry art, too, so there's no push for diversity. As you said, creativity isn't served here. It just isn't because we praise too much or our artists aren't skilled. It's because the furry community has very focused tastes.
The reason I'm here myself is because here offers a kind of subject matter and a kind of style that I can't find elsewhere. I'll give an example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kaemantis/ - Kae is my favorite artist, full stop. Not my ideal artist, who can supply perfectly every ideal I've ever thought should be included in art, but the closest I've seen people come consistently so far in this life. There are masterpieces that other artists have made who come a lot closer, pieces that display unique genius, but I've only met one person who's gallery I think of when I think of good art. Who I go and browse frequently not for the content so much as for the style and what I see in it. Her works aren't 'masterpiece' but they're always worthwhile. The contrast between her and art and something like this http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Do.....C10314036.jpeg is incomparable. That art came out of the 'best sellers' section of a commercial art store. I would rather stay right instead!
To sum: We're a niche market. We have our stars and our stars are worth it. Yet our values are different from those of others, so our stars are nothing outside of the niche. You're right to point out that many of our best can't make it in the world outside. Yet I think you're wrong to say that the furry fandom smothers good artists.
Talent can help but it's only going to carry so far if that's all you got going. So you can wow a few strangers online. What are you going to do when the industry folks were so sure, YOU were so sure you'd be working for goes "...yeah? And what?" Then sends you home with nothing to show for it but a 'Don't call us, we'll call you."? Well, you could be like most folks and scamper back to the fandom who will assure you those people don't know what they're talking about. You're better than anyone who works there.
How often have we seen this scenario?
Another misconception folks get is that the fandom is more tha a fandom, that ANY fandom is more than a fandom. Some folks even feel that the 'great' artists here are here because it's owed to their fans because without them, they wouldn't be considered 'great' in the first place. Like you said, it can smother.
There are artists who DO feel that pressure and perform accordingly. And really, they wonder why their lives "suck". Course your life sucks if you don't do anything beyond what's nessessary to make it better.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
but long story short, I agree. In a long winded way D:
Like I said to Thorndraco: people, when they're comfortable, don't like being challenged. I didn't see what I wrote as a challenge, but I guess you could see it that way.
::cough:: but yeah, I agree, and I've seen it far too often. Me? I know I could make it if I tried, but I decided that the industry isn't where I see myself. Alotta my friends are struggling for that brass ring. I just want to see them get it.
My art is like my own lil guilty pleasure. Sure, I use it to keep food on the table. But I have worked with part time and full time work and saw my art as my leisure. I learn more and that in iteself keeps me happy. I want to keep it that way. Or rather, I like seeing my art as a stepping stone for others to get higher. Like Matt. Or even my friend Satou. I shamefully admit to getting connections purely for their benefit.
"Hey, you think I do good? Well, lemme tell you bout this other chap..."
guess that's my comfort zone.
We all have our comfort zones. FA's a big fat comfy papasan for ol' Berbie here. And he knows it. :)
You've recognized something so important to long-term happiness! We're encouraged to reach for the next rung in the ladder, every damn day of the week. Money money money, class class class, even as it gets harder and harder to manage (unless you gets a sugardaddy/momma). As a buddy of mine once asked me: "do you work to live, or live to work?"
Keep that love alive, however it feels right. *hugs*
First off, it's true. To be a professional, you have to BE a professional, and work hard for what you want.
*thinks*
But I can't help but feel there wouldn't be a furry fandom if everyone tried for this path. ...Or to be more precise, the fandom would be composed... artistically at least... of people wishing this or that person would draw something, while looking at art from what they used to do.
Working on that level requires a nose to the grindstone, no time for nonsense mentality that, as you said, leaves no time for friends. None. The friends you mentioned you yourself made were made outside of the fandom; though I'm sure that once you settled, you were able to make some then. There wouldn't be half as many people who would be drawn to this fandom at all if they couldn't find friends. Most of them would drift to other venues, and if those too were thin on artists...
I feel like I'm opposing what you say, and I'm not, really. I just think that its a very hard view to take on things; to willingly deny yourself friends and pleasure for money, as ungodly important as it is. I think that you are -partly- right about fandoms though in that they will cause you to get too comfortable if you grow too pleased with the responses you get. I've seen some artists stop improving over time, but since they're considered the best, they never feel the drive to push further.
But I think that it's also possible for a smart, determined artist to rise further than that cap they reach... as long as they have eyes to see they've reached it... and still continue to improve to the point where they CAN present a portfolio to a business and be accepted, and not just herded into the nearest open pidgeonhole to roost. And it doesn't require then to leave the fandom, only realise a fact I always tell all my artist friends. You can never stop trying to improve or explore new things.
I think if the average artist here were to always attempt more than the familiat, they would improve, even if all they wanted to draw was porn at first. I'm not an artist myself, but I honestly believe that as long as an artist is willing and able to look at their art and as long as they see it the same as older art, be unsatisifed and try new things, they can continue to improve anywhere, business or not.
... gonna cut it short here; I feel I'm not coming through clearly enough as it's late. But feel free to reply and I'll try to expand on anything that you're curious about.
"But I think that it's also possible for a smart, determined artist to rise further than that cap they reach...and still continue to improve to the point where they CAN present a portfolio to a business and be accepted."
It's possible. Very unlikely, however.
As I said, making a commercial-grade book demands you take your cues from the industry you want to break into. It's more than just having the right attitude. All the dedication in the world won't get you there if you're not paying attention to the demands of the market.
My position's hard? Yep, it is. If you want to be an Olympic fencer, or a world-class dancer, or the best you can be at ANYthing, it demands a high level of commitment. It's not for everyone.
I did get what you meant; it was my own presentation that got skewed by my not being focussed.
I did not mean to suggest you wanted everyone to push for the commercial world, nor was I suggesting that artists here could simply go on with what they were doing and not do the targetted research into what the industry they were trying for wanted.
I realise how hard it all is, and I guess it translated badly through my mildly befuddled mind to text. I still felt strongly enough to want to comment though.
I think what I was trying to say, pared down to the core, is that fandoms CAN be thick padding for an artist, keeping them from focussing on what they need to in order to improve, but I also believe that with the mentality that one can never settle in art, but should always strive for new forms of expression, new heights of skill and new ranges of subject, expanding their imaginations further than those comfortable ranges seen in most of the more common art here, an artist can stay within a fandom and still reach a point at which they are ready in all but the focus material.
Art is the one medium that spans all other forms of expression, and as such, I think that someone who works at it, for fun or for business is a very unique person. They need to unlock that uniqueness though, which I believe is the ablility to not only learn the established forms of art, but to develop new ones through a combination of focus, interest and imagination. The place where this all happens is almost unimportant to an artist who does what they do with this in thier mind, as even if they do draw porn or furries or anime or whatever, they'll eventually develop such a range of styles, skill, and detail that switching their gears toward another purpose would be only a matter of knowing what specifics are needed in that feild.
...I STILL feel like I'm slurring my meaning though... ^^;; I'm not an artist, but I know quite a few, and I honestly believe that a true artist... that Olympic medallist... will continue to improve no matter what the venue. Even if raw skill and talent aren't enough in the business world, this kind of artist will rise to that level eventually, wether they enter the business world or not, through pure self determination.
Pardon me as I hit my head on the desk....
This is probably the most important journal entry ever posted on FA.
(I'm leaving this window open so I can read it again when I return from work.)
I owe you a case of beer for this.
Dude if this is the most important entry for *you*, if I've helped you get solid on some ideas or concerns, then I gave something good. That makes me happy!
(I'll take that case o' beer, though! *hugs*)
Don't get me wrong, I dig the stuff here on FA! But in the greater diet of artistic development, this place is the weed and pizza.
And again, thanks for the article. It's very thought provoking. That's a good thing.
Hawse
But as interesting as this book is to me, to hear some down to earth truth here on FA is a hell of a lot more satisfying. There has been so much depression lately due to artists leaving and having hard times and losses in there life. Its just nice to hear someone tell it like it is.
I am jealous, I want to see Bruce Campbell and here him talk :(
And you got it, when I finish the book I will keep you in mind (all tho it honestly usually takes me a little while to find the time to finish reading a book). *wagstail* So far so good, it just got to the good parts where he meets Sam and is starting to really get into the armature filming stuff :D
The other thing is the "obligations between friends".
I have a lot of friends at different skill levels but at the same time I realized being nice and drawing stuff for someone of a lower skill brings you down as an artist. I realized this watching Marko's DVD from CA. He said the truth, when you hang around lower level skills it's ego, while hanging around your skill level or higher is a challenge. That's part of the comfort zone many people talk about.
I spend most of my time here when I'm at work, but when I'm going home on the bus alone, or at home, I have my other laptop on and I'm drawing.
This path is not easy I know, but somehow I think I'll feel better trying and opening myself to the experience than hiding away in various junk food galleries and just playing to my comfort zone.
One means I never tried, the other did and I'll have to deal with the results, good or bad.
Marko...It's going a bit far to say "hanging around lower skill levels is about ego". On one key level he's right: you will grow quickest if you surrround yourself with folks who are a few steps better than you. Not miles ahead...you'll struggle too much to keep up, and not a group way behind you, 'cuz they'll slow you up. Just keep in mind, CA's got a big dose of ego-building in their foundations. 'tude is 'tude, unhelpful no matter where it's coming from.
The critiques will be way worse when your next paycheck is on the line.
I'm used to having my art battered, that's why I'm not afraid.
There is too much ego here too, the problem is people can't take it, make journals inducing drama, whereas if I get a critique that beats me down on CA, I take what's relevant and improve. I may not agree with what people say but that's part of life.
I'm pretty much aware what CA has, but I'm not going to go for Best of CA or Creature of the Week. The Daily Sketch group and critiques forum as well as keeping a sketchbook are the right steps.
Sounds to me like you're in exactly the right frame of mind, man.
I mentioned Jeremy Sutton who does all those DVDs for Corel Painter, I believe he didn't have a degree in the arts either.
My friend who has done work for Udon, he was a Chemist. He realized art held more passion for him and he started StudioXD and went on to Gaia and Udon and other projects. He did what he loved and went for it.
This kind of art is a fun hobby, but it's like how people say "I can't draw cars or mechs" it wasn't like these artists knew how to draw people or furries. What happened is they spent years on drawing them, and neglected other types of subjects. Now they forget about the time it took to get as good as they did, and feel like they're starting over. If they want to be good then they realize they're placing limits on themselves and need to work beyond it.
That's why I am going to participate in CA's Daily Sketch Group. It means I'll be practicing on breaking my limitations.
School's not a be-all end-all. It can help, but as you noted it's not a given. I don't have an art degree m'self.
For me, furry is just a fun, self-indulgent low-effort thing to do when I'm winding down from drawing for the mainstream all day, so I think we're on the same wavelength.
Also I feel it doesnt matter what you draw, so long as you keep doing it you are bound to improve.
As for your second point: I think it depends on how you define "improve". Are we talking style? If that's the case then yes, I agree, it doesn't matter what you draw. If your goal is to improve your skills as an artist, then I can't agree. Art's a discipline. Being systematic about how you learn to see and interpret will permit you to develop a much broader visual vocabulary. Does that make sense?
Or it would be if I can actually get good enough, Feature animation artists are so far beyond my current level it can be frustrating. Soo I freeze frame through Disney DVDs and copy anything that looks interesting, some nights I might do as many as 100 rough sketches this way.
And it helps! When I first started practicing this way, maybe 1 in 10 looked on model, now its more 50/50
You're on de road! :D
Hit museums, galleries online and (especially!!) in real life. Draw at cafes, zoos, malls, at home, the stuff that matters to you most and the people you love the most. Everything that's real should be grist for your mill. Don't give up!!
Thanks for replying. Better late than never, after all. ^_^
Always be on the lookout for new inspirations! :D
Would it be all right to contact you by email and ask a few questions about your painting technique, people to research, and ways to get motivated and stay motivated? The last update to your professional site was a while ago, and even though there's an email address there, I'm unsure if that's still working.
Thanks for the advice, as I'm starting down that long winding road, I hope like heck I have the tenacity to hold on tight and direct my dreams!
PG }:8>
Keep at it, keep going down that road! It's a scary one sometimes. Just keep at it.
Best thing is to keep hammering at it. ;)
For a long time, I had wanted to do art professionally, well, in the way you are meaning professional. :) I've done freelance work, but that's about it, and some various logos for different companies. I'll tell you what, it sure was a blast. :) I did a logo for a soap company in Utah and the owner sent me some soap, and there was my art, right on the front of the lotion bottles and soap wrap. That felt fantastic, and it felt fantastic that I made the owner of the company so very happy. On the fandom side, I have done many, many, many commissions, and again, it's great when the client shrieks and runs around their house like a kid with ADHD on Xmas morning waiting for his/her parents to wake up so he can open his N64 because they love the commission so much. That feeling of making someone else so excited and happy with my artistic ability is not only addicting, but it is Godly. I think all of us artists feel that way when we make someone's world brighter through our creations. I think we are all meant to create and be artistic, and I believe none of us know how to do otherwise, whether we know we are creating or not. I believe we are all creating in some way. We are Creators. Some of us just also like to sketch and paint and create that way, on top of painting our masterpiece on our largest canvas... Life.
However, after years passed, I think I have decided now I will just pursue art as a hobby. :) If I get word that someone wants a book illustrated, which I currently have lined up, or if some small company needs a new logo for their coats-for-your-pets company, then maybe I'll snatch up those contracts. They are fun. Working outside of the fandom is a blast. Like you, I made one of my dearest friends in the professional world, and now I get free soap and lotion for life, plus a really cool friend came out of it. Still, the more art I do professionally, the less I enjoy it, as I have had little free time to work on my own art. Maybe once I knock out the commissions (a lot of furs are horrible compared to the clients I had in the "real" world), maybe I'll want to look into it professionally again. Either way, I can't stop drawing. Drawing is my water and I can't live without water.
Now writing... whew. Writing is my air, and I definitely can't live without air. Either way, fantastic post! :D
Thank you for sharing your experiences with me, and for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. :D
thank you for writing this ^^
Thanks for the advice ^^
This advice may come in handy now and later.
and keep the buisness stuff separate.
"Here's the pattern, in a nutshell. Artist enters the fandom. This artist has potential, maybe a lot. Gets great feedback. Draws more. Skills improve. Gets still more praise. Finds likeminded artists, gets plugged into the community. Starts to feel good about their work, starts getting some confidence to shoot for the Professional World. Puts a book together and tries it. Catches a fist in the teeth. Retreats to fandom, licks wounds."
....thats identical to my story, word for word. I came out of nowhere, got a little footing for myself, tried for the top and got knocked down pretty quickly. It took me a while to realize it was nothing personal from the fandom...things just dont always go as youd expect them to. Failure is what keeps many from achieving their potential, cuz a lot of folks just cant handle it, especially with so much expectation in one's own work.
It's a rare thing not to have to fight for what you want. Most times we've got to be scrappy if we want the brass ring.
It's cliche but it's true: nothing's over 'til you say it is.
I guess one of the main reasons I don't branch out is because I'm terrified that if I do, I'll become bored and put the pencil down forever. But if I continue in the circle, I'll never be anything more than a porn drawing art-whore who does nothing but fulfill the lusts of people I don't know for less money than the effort is worth...eventually becoming bored with it anyway!
What should I do?
It's about balancing what you want with what you love. Think about it this way: if you want a great physique, there's only one way to get it, and that's by a strict regimen of exercise and diet. The analogy works with art, too. I'm not crazy about still life as an art form. 90 percent of it bores me to tears. But as a way of training the eye and brain, still life exercises are pure goodness. Do it often enough and, as with exercise, you'll eventually push past that resistance. You'll realize, suddenly, that you've made it into a habit because you've found ways to make it engaging. Art drills (plein air, still life, figure drawing) function as calisthenics for us. Or maybe vegetables. Not always what we want to do, but it never fails to help when we do 'em.
What should you do? Here's the bottom line. What do you *want* out of art? Have you always wanted to be a career artist? Are you doing art for the money, or attention? What motivates you to draw? Have you ever had dreams of becoming an illustrator, animator, director, etc? That's the question you need to answer. Figuring out where to go from there will be easy. (The doing won't, necessarily, but the path will be clear.)
Sometimes we start out with a clear idea of what we want. Other times we grow into an idea. And sometimes we grow *out* of ideas, and that's okay, too. Me, for example: I've been at professional illustration for a long time, more than fifteen years. If I've learned one thing, it's keep your personal fires alight. Don't let 'em fade. The professional should be fuel for the personal. However you make that work, you have to make it work if you want to be able to keep at it. (At least that's the truth for me.) I have spent a lot of time putting the polish on other people's ideas. It's equally important--even more important--that I do the same for my own, otherwise my muse will (and has) rebel.
Where am I going with this? Back to your post. We don't know each other, so what I'm about to type is a shot in the dark based on what you've written. Take it with a grain of salt. But: you sound like you're aware of being in a cycle. That's the first step towards breaking it. The fear's coming from the critter inside who takes comfort from this cycle. He doesn't want you to break it, because God only knows what awaits you outside it. Here's the thing, though: nothing outside that cycle-space is so scary that you can't handle it. And the fact that you're concerned the cycle will eventually bore you into not drawing atall is a warning. It's a call to grow Whether or not you get bored of art is to a great extent under your own control. Choose to dig deep, going beyond the immediate, surficial satisfaction. Go for the bone. That's how you get really good at anything.
I hope this helps.
I've also heard of people turning what they love to do into a career, and eventually coming to hate it because they realize that doing something as a career demands a lot more time and effort than something you just do for kicks in your spare time. I know that
I'm not even sure if I have the dedication and drive needed to be a professional..or the talent.
But I'm currently attending college for Business Administration, which can be applied to a career in art anyway, so I guess I can use the next few years while I work at my Bachelor's degree to really figure out what I wanna do. I just hope I'm not wasting my time in a classroom while I should be at the grinding block, working at becoming a better artist full-time.
Your advice did help though, now all I gotta do is sort out this conflict that's raging in my head XD!
Maybe think about going into video games as a producer or art director!
Let me give you some positive wave countermeasures.
All of the most successful people I know, every last one of 'em, are doing what they love. That goes for art careers and everything else. We have this brief lifespan; it's incredibly important we spend our work hours doing something that we at least *enjoy*. Good biz folks as much in need as good artists. An admin who understands art issues is worth their weight in GOLD.
I have never, ever regretted my career. My regrets have more to do with choices I've made that, at their heart, have much more to do with me than with art. None of my peers have regretted it, though we've all had moments when we've wondered if this is what we're meant to do. That's part of having a career in art: it's fraught with many more potholes than the typical career path. You do have to have a strong stomach for that. But the rewards make it worthwhile. I earn great money, I get up every day excited to take on new challenges, and I spend *every* *single* *workday* drawing or painting. It's the best job in the world. Anything else would be a compromise with circumstance and that's a thing I'd just as soon never deal with.
Talent? Dude, you're fine. I've seen (and like!) your work. Do you have stuff to work on? Sure, but so do I. So does everyone. I can look at your stuff and know you've got enough artistic power for the task. The question is (as you're wondering): how much do you want it? You'll figure that out.
Just keep at it. ;)
I'm a first year illustration student.... the program I'm taking is four years.... and the school I go to is well known fo helping their grads find work.. but I still can't help but worry... what happens when I graduate....? I mean... I guess I have a rough plan in case I don't find work... which I kinda feel is unlikely b/c this school does have a good rep.... and this is just my first year... I still ahve a long way to go... but it's just one of those things I guess.... hahaha... i don't have to worry about 'pigeonholing' so much... b/c I don't really hang around anywhere... just kinda do my own thing... I'm rarely on the computer anymore b/c I don't have that much time (free time is opening up again, seeming we're off this friday, for a month 8D)
I guess it's a bit early to be worrying... I wnat to do well in this course... so I['m trying to push myself....I guess that's all I can do for now eh? keep an open mind, and work my ass off.....
Art is all about intentions, be they commercial or personal. Be intentional about your career, deliberate, methodical. And never accept "good enough" for more than a pop at a time.
If I may ask, did you go to an art school? If so, where?