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I'm right, you're wrong
15 years ago
Can you admit when you're wrong? Will you realize when your logic becomes undermined rather than scrambling for any reason to say that the threat is unsupported, has errors, or some other fault and accept it?
Chances are, you won't. Most people would rather remain in the own security of their beliefs, whether correct or not, than listen to someone else. Why listen to some random ass person on the internet who you can drop as soon as it becomes inconvenient to your life? It doesn't even need to be a belief. It could be an opinion.. a pet peeve.. a fetish.. attitudes.. acts.. personalities. Have a problem with someone? Poof. Gone. You don't need to deal with it.
What a horribly disrespectful attitude. How do people expect to grow and learn as individual if they are not CONSTANTLY questioning how they act, live and think? And yet I see this so very commonly. Person A has a problem with person B. Person B questions the actions of A, so A gets butthurt and ragequits without really seriously considering.. what if B was right about something? What if maybe A is so absorbed in its way of thinking that it can't see from other people's point of view? But nope.. we're going to toss other people's thoughts, opinions, and lives right out the window because A loves itself so much that B should love A unconditionally just for how great A thinks it is.
This is not even just an attitude seen online either. This kind of attitude is everywhere.
This is not just a one way street either. People who can criticize others should constantly be doing so of themselves. In this act, not only do you gain confidence about your own logic by constantly questioning it, but you gain the respect of others when they know you have the ability to reconsider your own rules.
Arguments aren't even a sign of a friendship gone sour either. Sure, sometimes you may have them more commonly with some people than you do with others, but this can be a sign of growth or development. Perhaps you don't have arguments with some relationships because you really don't know someone that well.. or have a shallow friendship with them. This could only be true of some relationships, but it's something to consider.
If someone is arguing to you about something stupid, at least consider what they are trying to say. Maybe not from a direct standpoint.. but maybe from an emotional one. Try to be empathetic. If that fails, state that you disagree, respect their opinion, and have faith that maybe they will change their outlook in time. Of course this does not work in all cases, but I firmly believe that a touch of tolerance, respect, and good-will should keep you on good terms with anyone who isn't totally disrespectful and intolerant of life.
Just something I've been thinking about lately.
Chances are, you won't. Most people would rather remain in the own security of their beliefs, whether correct or not, than listen to someone else. Why listen to some random ass person on the internet who you can drop as soon as it becomes inconvenient to your life? It doesn't even need to be a belief. It could be an opinion.. a pet peeve.. a fetish.. attitudes.. acts.. personalities. Have a problem with someone? Poof. Gone. You don't need to deal with it.
What a horribly disrespectful attitude. How do people expect to grow and learn as individual if they are not CONSTANTLY questioning how they act, live and think? And yet I see this so very commonly. Person A has a problem with person B. Person B questions the actions of A, so A gets butthurt and ragequits without really seriously considering.. what if B was right about something? What if maybe A is so absorbed in its way of thinking that it can't see from other people's point of view? But nope.. we're going to toss other people's thoughts, opinions, and lives right out the window because A loves itself so much that B should love A unconditionally just for how great A thinks it is.
This is not even just an attitude seen online either. This kind of attitude is everywhere.
This is not just a one way street either. People who can criticize others should constantly be doing so of themselves. In this act, not only do you gain confidence about your own logic by constantly questioning it, but you gain the respect of others when they know you have the ability to reconsider your own rules.
Arguments aren't even a sign of a friendship gone sour either. Sure, sometimes you may have them more commonly with some people than you do with others, but this can be a sign of growth or development. Perhaps you don't have arguments with some relationships because you really don't know someone that well.. or have a shallow friendship with them. This could only be true of some relationships, but it's something to consider.
If someone is arguing to you about something stupid, at least consider what they are trying to say. Maybe not from a direct standpoint.. but maybe from an emotional one. Try to be empathetic. If that fails, state that you disagree, respect their opinion, and have faith that maybe they will change their outlook in time. Of course this does not work in all cases, but I firmly believe that a touch of tolerance, respect, and good-will should keep you on good terms with anyone who isn't totally disrespectful and intolerant of life.
Just something I've been thinking about lately.
I've been wrong too many times to count and I am not in the least bit discouraged to admit this. Being wrong, going through tough times and undergoing hardships, breakups--these are all important learning experiences which are crucial for psychological growth, albeit they may not always be viewed this way. In the long run, however, arguments are fine as long as they are civil. A friendly debate can both be intellectually stimulating and fun. Sometimes it takes a bad fight for both parties to grow as well. It depends on the emotional impact of the fight, I surmise. Not everyone is able to spontaneously recover and be all "*glomps* You're my best friend ever again" ... forgiveness is perhaps the greatest healing tool we are given as human beings.
Concepts such as greed and invention stem from the reward system in place in our civilization for undertaking the mindset and carrying out actions associated with the aforementioned concepts.
It's in everything from the artist who stubbornly believes he's the best at his game and will never improve, to the parent that stands behind their kid even after they start becoming a menace to society. Unreasonable pride.
When I have a discussion with someone I always try to come out of it with more information, or more accurate information. Often times I will correct myself if I'm wrong, more often than I correct the other person.
I won't say I've never just totaly told someone they are wrong and called that the end of it. I have, But I try not to, and that mostly comes from my dad, because he and I often have discussions that lead to arguments, but we always come to a solution in the end, getting the correct information.
just kidding dude, nice line of thought though! =DD
P.S. Please humor me, I have nothing better to do.
From a journal of mine regarding criticism.
It certainly is a flawed part of our society. When you get around the fact that being proven wrong does not mean you are stupid or less intelligent/capable it certainly opens a lot of doors for you.
Its a reason why crits in art people often take as threatening and insulting, often its the more experienced and mature artists who accept it for what it is.
I deal with so many that are just not satisfied with their own thoughts and beliefs they must persuade others, if not that Troll about mocking others for them to feel better about themselves. That is why I can't stand for groups like WBC, Neo Nazis, Hyper Calvinists, Atheists, and any other group so self absorbed in their own thoughts that they throw me Ultimatums and alienate me for my beliefs.
I just might be too human, too compassionate for the things I care the most about, and want to simply stand my ground on things that I love, or it might be true that the reason I protect certain things is out of nostalgia or just pure faith in the face of common logic... that fact would state otherwise.
The question I always ask back is whether or not I should drop everything and do as they do... become an arrogant self servicing pricks that either lack of faith... or think that human thought and creativity is to be feared.
7 billion people, 7 billion versions of the truth. That's just the world we live in.
At the same time you're certainly right about there being a problem with this attitude developing in pretty much everyone, in part because of the number of possible connections you can make online. With enough time put into it you can usually come accross a set of people who won't challange your beliefs at all and at the same time you'll have all the friendship you need out of them where in real life a lack of options will push you to new and potentially uncomfortable situations and conversations.
The balance in my mind comes in finding a decent set of intelligent and honest friends that will challange you when you're out of line or need an opinion about something, shifting core beliefs in this manner can be more difficult as making good friends with those you have core disagreements with is difficult. I'd like to think though that I manage this to a degree and with those who know me and whom I trust I'll be much more open to debate with about my actions, decisions and beliefs, newcomers had better come correct though if they try this as it will be an uphill battle.
The problem is the concept of Change is more than a speech, more than an idea, its something that one truly has to do themselves. And sadly like a good few have stated, it is pretty much human nature. We have bread a mentality where nice guys get nothing in life, we have bread a mentality where the most socially popular guy always wins no matter how he treat people half the time. You know that old retail saying "customer is always right"? that's the perfect example of how society has geared itself to the tune of "asshole wins"
The only change that's gonna happen is when people have real values and real respect, and that's a creature more mythical than every dragon on FA put together >.=.>
It just doesn't happen very often.
Or at all.
And I'm wrong a lot, so I've had practice. XD
Typically I tell people to always question to grow, but no one really listens to me anyways. Glad you could get some people to go with it.
I'm working on admitting I'm wrong to prevent being a jerk.
I do admit when I'm wrong though, but before I'll do so, I'll explain where I'm coming from in order to lead me to whatever situation I'm wrong about.
Plus, I can't defend a point to save my life, anyway. :P
At least, I sometimes try to see the flaws in my own logic... I'm a programmer after all. I'm conscious that I'm not perfect and it annoys me. ^'===='^;
$$$$$$$$$$how wicked and evil he is and how he's always trying to hinder us from going to church on Sundays (regardless of the fact that he's the one driving -_-) and because he "clipped her fingernails and her hair" one time without her knowing he had done this and because he once took her wedding ring and hid it somewhere in a grassy field and because he practices witchcraft and sorcery whenever he goes out to his truck driving job and because his sole goal in life is to drive her crazy because she's the only person in my family who's trying to "walk with God" while the rest of us are "back-slidin'" idiots who defile her great knowledge with our stupid logic and our "trust in man" when it isn't "man" who runs this country, but is GOD!!!!!...............
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Help meee. ;_;
I try my DAMNEDEST to be a reasonable, fun-to-be-around kind of guy. But NO ONE seems to extend me the same kindness.
Example:
I was on a bus going to a concert to perform, when me and some others decided to do a little singing to get our chops ready since we left rather late in the day and most of our voices were without practice for so long. I cannot even recall the EXACT thing I did, but I pissed everyone off enough to yell at me over ONE... MISTAKE.... I tried, at first, to realize "hey, maybe I'm wrong." But before I could even open my effing mouth they were jumping down it.
This attitude has quite nearly ruined my life, I can barely hold confidence in myself anymore, it's a struggle sticking to my own opinion anymore (right or otherwise, although I strive to be right if I am holding an opinion), and I have almost no self-confidence anywhere else in my life.
Well, there is my two cents. Take it as you will.
Sometimes people refuse to just say sorry and instead they fight until the end even if they know they are wrong, defending themselves with teeth and claws even if they know they are wrong.
If only the world has a few extra drops of humble-ness I think we would be in a much better place now.
I admit when I'm wrong and I fight when I know I'm right, If I'm proven wrong in the process I admit it, I'm no less human by doing that, and its incredible how complicated it is for some people.
I dislike arguments online, but face to face they can be an amazing tool at strengthening a relationship, or demolishing it completely.
I am willing to listen and perhaps even change my opinion... IF there is enough evidence that I should.
For the most part, though, I try to stay neutral; I listen to all and give back none of my own unless asked for it.
my only question is: what when you try to racionalize and the other one does not?
Seriously though, all very valid points. I think everyone really desires to live up to the standard of being infallible, no matter how impossible it is. I know I've been known to be stubborn on occasion.