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Furry Art as a Career
15 years ago
Taking about five minutes away from comicking to take a break, and post my thoughts on a subject that's been the topic of discussion all over FA, and at conventions. . . especially amongst artist circles. Namely. . . IS this a career? Or are we dreaming?
The short answer is. . . yes. It can be. It gets complicated when you attempt it, though.
I wish I could say there's some kind of 'secret' to what works, but honestly. . . there isn't. There are artists far, FAR better than me in this fandom. . . that for whatever reason, have far less success selling prints, selling stuff at art auctions, and selling commissions than they should. I know. . . I've spoken to many of them.
My own experience struggling my way up the mountain. . . and there is still a LONG way to go until I feel secure in calling this a 'career'. . . was more often than not, disappointing. I may be new to furry, but what a lot of people don't realize is that Furry was never my sphere of choice, until recently. I've been doing primarily fantasy/gaming artwork, since I was very young. Even scifi came up more often than anthro, for me. Until about a year and a half ago, I drew almost nothing but humans, and the occasional mythical animal. The only animals I'd ever drawn were. . . real animals. Maybe the occasional werewolf.
I've been doing fantasy and gaming-related cons for. . . probably six to seven years, now. My success was almost always, without fail, nil. I never made enough to cover the expense of a con. . . never. Which sort of dismayed me, and negated any hopes I had of making art my career. I graduated college right about at the time of the crash, and found it IMPOSSIBLE to find studio work. I actually gave up artwork altogether for almost two years, following college. Didn't seem to be a point in it, anymore. At my closing interview with my faculty advisor, upon my last semester, he told me that there simply wasn't much call for someone with traditional drawing skills in the animation/film field (which was what I had majored in) unless I also had skill in modeling, rendering, or some other form of 3-D based field. I did not. He told me to consider pet portraits as a side business, and find a normal job to support myself.
I've always worked, so taking on a 'normal' job was fairly standard, for me. I've worked retail during the winters, barnyard jobs during the summers, since I was 13. I worked throughout every year I spent in college, full-time during the summers. . . and I started work immediately after leaving college. I was working 50 hour weeks to support myself, and still at the same payscale, 2 years after leaving college, and. . . I wasn't happy. And then, out of blue, a friend of mine quite literally took me by the hand, and said the magic words, 'I'm taking you to a furry convention'.
I'll be honest, at first. . . I had about the same reaction everyone does, when confronted with furry. I didn't know what to think. It doesn't help that the first con I went to was MFF, which is. . . huge. I was on the fence about just randomly jumping into a fandom and doing artwork. . . I literally had NOTHING of a furry nature to show, at my first con. But I spent a few hours in the artist's alley line, and talked to the other artists there. . . and asked them what sold. They all pretty much told me the same thing. 'Conbadges'. I didn't even know what they were, at the time.
That weekend, I made in two days what I'd usually make in two weeks, at my normal job. And since then, I've never looked back.
To all the naysayers who think this isn't a real job. . . I've this to say. If you CAN support yourself doing something. . . whatever it is. . . it IS a job. It becomes a career when you're financially comfortable. I can't say I'm at that point yet, but. . . I know artists who are. Which means it's possible. Hard. . . but possible. I CONTINUED to work my normal job for quite some time, while I learned the furry art world, and figured out what worked for me. I only recently started doing this ENTIRELY full-time. Now, there are a lot of myths about furry artists, and I'm gonna try and dispell some of them.
One, that doing art full-time is a 'hobby', not a 'job', because it's easy. This. Is. Bullshit. I dare anyone who says this to work 18 hour days for two and a half weeks straight. Because that's what I've been doing this past month. I get up. . . I work. . . I eat one meal midway through the day, I shower, I work. . . then I sleep. And over the last week, due to AC crunch time coming up. . . sleep has been optional. Any artist who's slammed themselves preparing for a con will attest to this. This is NOT easy work.
Just because you enjoy your job, that does NOT make it somehow less legitimate than a job where you're miserable. This is an opinion perpetuated by people who, surprise surprise. . . are miserable at their job. Or, even more often, by people who DON'T WORK. Working as an artist is AWESOME, because you set your own hours, you get to do something you presumably love, and you make people happy (for the most part). The other side of this is, of course. . . that you HAVE to be disciplined. . . or you will do nothing. If you know you're the sort of person who would rather veg out than draw. . . don't try this. You have to want to do it.
Another opinion I've been hearing a lot that honestly just. . . confounds me. . . is that drawing PORN makes us less legitimate artists than people who draw, say. . . landscapes. Or any other kind of majestic, non-penis-related artwork. This is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. Porn is one of the OLDEST forms of artistic expression. Ever since men painted on cave walls, they've been drawing penises, and boobs. It's. . . almost part of our DNA, at this point. Just look at any high school locker room wall, or textbook. It's like people literally can't help themselves. PENISES. EVERYWHERE. Art is whatever you want it to be. And a lot of people WANT it to be porn. What's more, from a purely business standpoint, if you want to look at it that way. . . porn and ANY form of sex industry are INCREDIBLY lucrative. People have made careers off of sex, depictions of sex, or relating their product TO sex. . . since the invention of money. Are you people insane? Yeah, a rolling meadow with a deer stand gracefully amidst the grasses is beautiful, and it'll look good on someone's wall. . . but I guarantee you a rolling meadow with a deer standing gracefully amidst an orgy of other deer will sell JUST as well, amongst the furry community. And someone will probably STILL put it on their wall!
The bottom line is, if you can make it work for you as a job. . . do it. Haters will always hate. But. . . if you're supporting yourself with it. . . who the fuck cares? They probably live in a room at their mom's house, anyway. And THEY'RE complaining?
There are a few basic bits of info, based on my personal experience, I can give to artists hopeful to do this. They aren't necessarily correct, but they've worked for me -
1. Don't quit your day job until you KNOW you can support yourself. You could ultimately fuck up your life.
2. If you don't want to do adult artwork, it's not impossible. . . but it is going to be HARD. There ARE artists that have done it. But they are RAAAARE. I say more power to them. . . I personally enjoy doing porn. But if it's not your thing, just keep in mind. . . it might be harder to market your stuff.
3. Don't dig your commission art hole too deep. Mine is backed up pretty good right now, but I made sure to keep it manageable. Never take so much that you can't even keep track of it all. Keep good records, keep in contact with your commissioners, and if you're going to leave someone waiting awhile, try and make amends, or keep them updated. Your reputation is everything.
4. Do. A. Comic. This is probably the ONLY thing I can promise you for a FACT will increase your presence in the fandom. No matter what it's about. . . no matter how you do the artwork. . . people are more likely to be interested in it if there's a story involved.
5. Start out with artist alleys, not Dealer's Rooms. It's cheaper. . . bottom line. And if you're afraid you won't break even on a con, it's the best way to save some money.
6. Don't be afraid to travel. With gas prices as they are right now, it's often cheaper to fly. Use discount sites for plane tickets. A convention will almost always get more people looking your way, and it's a REALLY good place to meet people, and get new opportunities.
7. Talk to other artists. Even the real big wigs. I was incredibly shy around the artists I idolized, when I first entered the fandom. . . but they're real people, and more often than not. . . they're actually quite friendly. They have useful experience for you. Learn as much as you can.
Well. . . that was long. But I enjoy writing this stuff down, if nothing more than to get it off my mind ;) Good break from comicking, too.
Back to work. . . .
The short answer is. . . yes. It can be. It gets complicated when you attempt it, though.
I wish I could say there's some kind of 'secret' to what works, but honestly. . . there isn't. There are artists far, FAR better than me in this fandom. . . that for whatever reason, have far less success selling prints, selling stuff at art auctions, and selling commissions than they should. I know. . . I've spoken to many of them.
My own experience struggling my way up the mountain. . . and there is still a LONG way to go until I feel secure in calling this a 'career'. . . was more often than not, disappointing. I may be new to furry, but what a lot of people don't realize is that Furry was never my sphere of choice, until recently. I've been doing primarily fantasy/gaming artwork, since I was very young. Even scifi came up more often than anthro, for me. Until about a year and a half ago, I drew almost nothing but humans, and the occasional mythical animal. The only animals I'd ever drawn were. . . real animals. Maybe the occasional werewolf.
I've been doing fantasy and gaming-related cons for. . . probably six to seven years, now. My success was almost always, without fail, nil. I never made enough to cover the expense of a con. . . never. Which sort of dismayed me, and negated any hopes I had of making art my career. I graduated college right about at the time of the crash, and found it IMPOSSIBLE to find studio work. I actually gave up artwork altogether for almost two years, following college. Didn't seem to be a point in it, anymore. At my closing interview with my faculty advisor, upon my last semester, he told me that there simply wasn't much call for someone with traditional drawing skills in the animation/film field (which was what I had majored in) unless I also had skill in modeling, rendering, or some other form of 3-D based field. I did not. He told me to consider pet portraits as a side business, and find a normal job to support myself.
I've always worked, so taking on a 'normal' job was fairly standard, for me. I've worked retail during the winters, barnyard jobs during the summers, since I was 13. I worked throughout every year I spent in college, full-time during the summers. . . and I started work immediately after leaving college. I was working 50 hour weeks to support myself, and still at the same payscale, 2 years after leaving college, and. . . I wasn't happy. And then, out of blue, a friend of mine quite literally took me by the hand, and said the magic words, 'I'm taking you to a furry convention'.
I'll be honest, at first. . . I had about the same reaction everyone does, when confronted with furry. I didn't know what to think. It doesn't help that the first con I went to was MFF, which is. . . huge. I was on the fence about just randomly jumping into a fandom and doing artwork. . . I literally had NOTHING of a furry nature to show, at my first con. But I spent a few hours in the artist's alley line, and talked to the other artists there. . . and asked them what sold. They all pretty much told me the same thing. 'Conbadges'. I didn't even know what they were, at the time.
That weekend, I made in two days what I'd usually make in two weeks, at my normal job. And since then, I've never looked back.
To all the naysayers who think this isn't a real job. . . I've this to say. If you CAN support yourself doing something. . . whatever it is. . . it IS a job. It becomes a career when you're financially comfortable. I can't say I'm at that point yet, but. . . I know artists who are. Which means it's possible. Hard. . . but possible. I CONTINUED to work my normal job for quite some time, while I learned the furry art world, and figured out what worked for me. I only recently started doing this ENTIRELY full-time. Now, there are a lot of myths about furry artists, and I'm gonna try and dispell some of them.
One, that doing art full-time is a 'hobby', not a 'job', because it's easy. This. Is. Bullshit. I dare anyone who says this to work 18 hour days for two and a half weeks straight. Because that's what I've been doing this past month. I get up. . . I work. . . I eat one meal midway through the day, I shower, I work. . . then I sleep. And over the last week, due to AC crunch time coming up. . . sleep has been optional. Any artist who's slammed themselves preparing for a con will attest to this. This is NOT easy work.
Just because you enjoy your job, that does NOT make it somehow less legitimate than a job where you're miserable. This is an opinion perpetuated by people who, surprise surprise. . . are miserable at their job. Or, even more often, by people who DON'T WORK. Working as an artist is AWESOME, because you set your own hours, you get to do something you presumably love, and you make people happy (for the most part). The other side of this is, of course. . . that you HAVE to be disciplined. . . or you will do nothing. If you know you're the sort of person who would rather veg out than draw. . . don't try this. You have to want to do it.
Another opinion I've been hearing a lot that honestly just. . . confounds me. . . is that drawing PORN makes us less legitimate artists than people who draw, say. . . landscapes. Or any other kind of majestic, non-penis-related artwork. This is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. Porn is one of the OLDEST forms of artistic expression. Ever since men painted on cave walls, they've been drawing penises, and boobs. It's. . . almost part of our DNA, at this point. Just look at any high school locker room wall, or textbook. It's like people literally can't help themselves. PENISES. EVERYWHERE. Art is whatever you want it to be. And a lot of people WANT it to be porn. What's more, from a purely business standpoint, if you want to look at it that way. . . porn and ANY form of sex industry are INCREDIBLY lucrative. People have made careers off of sex, depictions of sex, or relating their product TO sex. . . since the invention of money. Are you people insane? Yeah, a rolling meadow with a deer stand gracefully amidst the grasses is beautiful, and it'll look good on someone's wall. . . but I guarantee you a rolling meadow with a deer standing gracefully amidst an orgy of other deer will sell JUST as well, amongst the furry community. And someone will probably STILL put it on their wall!
The bottom line is, if you can make it work for you as a job. . . do it. Haters will always hate. But. . . if you're supporting yourself with it. . . who the fuck cares? They probably live in a room at their mom's house, anyway. And THEY'RE complaining?
There are a few basic bits of info, based on my personal experience, I can give to artists hopeful to do this. They aren't necessarily correct, but they've worked for me -
1. Don't quit your day job until you KNOW you can support yourself. You could ultimately fuck up your life.
2. If you don't want to do adult artwork, it's not impossible. . . but it is going to be HARD. There ARE artists that have done it. But they are RAAAARE. I say more power to them. . . I personally enjoy doing porn. But if it's not your thing, just keep in mind. . . it might be harder to market your stuff.
3. Don't dig your commission art hole too deep. Mine is backed up pretty good right now, but I made sure to keep it manageable. Never take so much that you can't even keep track of it all. Keep good records, keep in contact with your commissioners, and if you're going to leave someone waiting awhile, try and make amends, or keep them updated. Your reputation is everything.
4. Do. A. Comic. This is probably the ONLY thing I can promise you for a FACT will increase your presence in the fandom. No matter what it's about. . . no matter how you do the artwork. . . people are more likely to be interested in it if there's a story involved.
5. Start out with artist alleys, not Dealer's Rooms. It's cheaper. . . bottom line. And if you're afraid you won't break even on a con, it's the best way to save some money.
6. Don't be afraid to travel. With gas prices as they are right now, it's often cheaper to fly. Use discount sites for plane tickets. A convention will almost always get more people looking your way, and it's a REALLY good place to meet people, and get new opportunities.
7. Talk to other artists. Even the real big wigs. I was incredibly shy around the artists I idolized, when I first entered the fandom. . . but they're real people, and more often than not. . . they're actually quite friendly. They have useful experience for you. Learn as much as you can.
Well. . . that was long. But I enjoy writing this stuff down, if nothing more than to get it off my mind ;) Good break from comicking, too.
Back to work. . . .
thank you rukis.
Get back to work!
Please...
Regardless, keep on truckin' through!
Not many!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Xr.....eature=related
Ignore the Bush. ANd enjoy the song
nicely said Rukis, especially about idealizing good artists. arff
*furiously starts working on a comic*
You should do a journal for the lesser experienced crowd next, I'm sure many of us would appreciate a nice "Don't give up!" journal.
I might try making one sometime.
You should see a porta-john on any military base. It's actually pretty scary when you think about it.
Some good tips here for aspiring artists, and be sure to take your own advice about those nay-sayers, power to you for enjoying your job!
I think it's neat to get to read bits of the backgrounds of artists like yourself. It does make you seem more... real?
although i'm a lucky one. 1- i'm in australia. 2- there's this program here, run by the government, called "NEIS". it's a 6 week course in small business management, and your main assignment is your own business plan for the business you want to start. then once you've done that, you get $450 per fortnight income from NEIS to help you with living expenses for the first 12 months, and you also get a mentor that checks on you every few months and is there on call if things aren't going well. any money you make in the business has to be saved up for a while, but once you're up and going well you learn how to organize all your finances. that was the whole point of the course XD backup plans and the like.
I haven't officially opened yet but i will be on the 30th of this month, and people in australia have higher incomes and more disposable money that they'd love to blow. I saw a nice little painting of a kookaburra in a tree in a tiny shitty little country town for $250! and most of my loyal customers i've had in the past few months who have been willing to go all out and spend like $100+ on commissions from me have been australians, most of whom i met at my first furry convention in december last year o.o
I've only been in the fandom a year and considering i'm not very popular or anything yet i seem to be doing pretty well for myself XD i really enjoy doing anthro and have been soo inspired by many of the great artists here, you being included =3 so i'm glad that i'm going to be making my art my career. (i'm also a tattoo apprentice but shh! i'm not qualified yet and won't be getting full time work with that for several months)
and i made some friends there who are selling gothic clothing and footware, and i designed their mascot/logo/banner and they promote me and i promote them too ^^ and i've gotten a few other jobs from other classmates too, which i think happens a lot in that course cause everyone has their own skills and business ideas =3 the teachers like to brag about how good it is and the statistics of people still being successful in business 5 years later blah blah blah~ i think america and other overseas places should have stuff like this too.
I am currently unemployed and am in training at a Law Enforcement Training Center, but it is hard to get by.
I would love to have my art out there more, but I always feel like I am lacking something all the big shot artists have, and I am not sure what. I try to not be a freaking big shot and eff up on commissions and refuse to fix them because my head is stuck up my ass.. one thing i hate about very popular artists.... the customers are always second best ...
That is def., one thing I want to stray from..
I can honestly say that this inspired me to keep working harder, and that you are a strong person. Keep working, you are already near the top in my book
But these things happen when you take it to an extreme. The tricky part is that it can easily lead down that path. Especially if you have addictive personalities, it can become harder to not let that happen.
If you really want your porn though, I would probably prefer it, myself, if the porn was of my own significant other. It makes it all the more intimate and real.
That's what happens when you post half distracted. :P
I am glad that you're working hard and being expressive. Never give up on it. You inspired me and many other artists:) You're strong individual and keep at it *wolfie hugs*
Also, you go!
Best 'rant' about the subject I've read yet. Can't even call it a rant really, just brilliantly informative. ^..^
And this " Yeah, a rolling meadow with a deer stand gracefully amidst the grasses is beautiful, and it'll look good on someone's wall. . . but I guarantee you a rolling meadow with a deer standing gracefully amidst an orgy of other deer will sell JUST as well, amongst the furry community. And someone will probably STILL put it on their wall! " Just totally made my fuckin' WEEK!
Funny thing you mention about the comic... While I was looking for some of my older stuff from ACs past, I came across this old suede covered journal book that had a story I was writing back in high school... I have actually always wanted to make a comic... originally I wanted to do a partnership with someone... but I would be proud if I could make something out of this ^^
Woman, I really hope you understand what an uplifting inspiration you are!!!
BEHOLD!!! And let the furry artists gospel be spoken! XD lol j/k
But seriously! And you didn't have to divide any of your attention while getting Cruelty ready for AC, but these are potent words and people need to know this... and the sooner they come to accept it the better! HALLELUJAH FOR PORN!!! Hell! For sex in general!!! XD 3 Cheers!!!
But, yes, this was an amazing journal, Rukis. And really well-written, I might add. I think all aspiring furry artists should read this and use it as their guide. You covered all of the points eloquently and well.
We all know you're great and you're just going to get better. :3
I have something to add... Just because you enjoy something as a hobby does not necessarity mean that you will enjoy it as a career. I do costume making and special effects as a hobby. Its fun and I get to play around with all sorts of interesting mediums.
However I am determined to make it stay a hobby as that I will not be under pressure to come up with idea's or to make something.
Too often I have seen the same thing when an enjoyable pastime becomes a chore, the the fun goes out of it.
As for you skills - don't sell yourself short. Having been in in the furry fandom for MANY years (before the net!!) I can assure you that you are a very talented artist, and they are few and far between.
Take Care
Marcwolf
You should make your career out of something you enjoy doing. Some things may become a chore, but if it's a chore that you wouldn't mind doing 8 hours a day, then there's not much lost. For me, computer programming fit that bill. It used to be a hobby for me (and still is, sometimes) but it's my job now. It's great to have a job where you can get in the zone and just work non-stop, to the point where you may forget to eat lunch.
But, there are things that I enjoy as a hobby that I would not want to turn into a career. If it's there for my relaxation time or for fun, I want it to stay that way. I don't want to have to make my free time the time off from those things.
But my special effects are my fun side.
It goes far beyond portopotties and cave walls. Over a third (37%) of the internet is porn, and the percentage is rising: http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/6/16/ov.....internet-porn/
As for art as a career... furry or not it is difficult and it is constant work. I wish you the best Rukis, and may the powers that be allow your business to be good enough for you to sleep at night at least. :)
Pet rock.
This is inspiring stuff. It is indeed hard work, but I'm doing my best to gun through and make art my career!
Porn artists are the only ones who make enough to live off of it in the furry fandom anyways
--Onni
Thanks for the informative post!
Also, I agree with the others who've mentioned it: I wish I could favorite this journal.
I admit I have quite a few hicups that you mentioned most notably about doing adult artwork. I always thought doing so would in fact reduce your value as an artist.
But one thing I am personally interested in witch you did not mentione in this sruvey is payement methods.
What payment methods do you use? I can already expect the standard method "paypal" ( witch I am banned from )
I want to try giving this art thing a shot, but At this point it's not even a question of popularity or fame or skill. I'm simply dennyed a method in witch to accept payement ( since most people seem to shy away from anything that is non-paypal. )
I would really apreciate some pointers on how to resive money from comissioners because at this point this is my biggest problem.
I would really appreciate to hear your thoughts on this.
You mentioned in your journal to also talk to other artists even the big wigs. Well you may not concider your self all the bg but if you don't mide me saying. May I talk with you?
^^; I have many questions that I would like to ask about just how you ended up where you are now.
I saw a coloured cartoon drawing of Alan Sugar yelling at Simon Cowell sell for £50,000 last night on TV. The buyer? Simon himself. :P Now THAT'S a living.
I work as a freelance translator myself, it's enjoyable but not my prime interest, and it's horribly underpaid. But I still do it. Why? Because it pays my bills, it's fairly secure, and I can set my own hors for the most part (save for deadlines) which makes it very much a similar job to having art as a job (I'd love to make a living off of art, as well, but that's not going to happen anytime soon - getting a head start with a con needs an investment which I don't have room for)
As for popularity/marketability vs. skill -- I have some first hand experience with the exact same thing in the music industry. Also a creative profession, and also with a lot of very very talented artists who don't see the light of day. It's a like a snowball -- once you get over that threshold where people start to notice you, things will get rolling, but that threshold is very very hard to reach.
I'm pretty good at writing but I suck at drawing, but when people like you come forth with a talent for both, comics are definitely a winning combination, and "Cruelty" is no exception. Bravo.
You can have a successful career as an artist. However that is RARE. Awesome places like Pixar, Hallmark, Nickeloden all have awesome cushy spaces for artists - but they are limited and require very hard work, contracted and legally binding work.
All artists experience periods of massive frantic so much work times and crickets chirping in the lonely night. Even my professors, people who have worked for TIME, doing children's books, advertisements, etc had months were they hat to turn down offers and times when they had none. DO keep a day job.
That said, the furry fandom....is just a fandom and is LIMITED. Do NOT act like it alone can be the one to support you. This is NOT the middle ages where we have a super rich patron throwing money at us all the time. Even modern artists fall into "their work is no longer shocking or "new"". Diversify. Have a portfolio that shows range. SEND THAT PORTFOLIO EVERYWHERE.
To be able to be a "professional" artist you spend just as many hours promoting yourself as you do working on art itself. It is costly to get all those mailers out, make all those cold calls, attend conventions and other functions. Don't do it unless you don't mind drawing an animated toilet paper roll dancing around or other boring or unimaginative stuff. You should also invest in knowing how to handle contracts - PROTECT YOURSELF LEGALLY. Know what the base price is for things, don't undersell yourself. (Catch the latest issue of the Pricing and Ethics guide for illustrators, made by the society for other artists, its a huge help and will give you an idea of what you're looking at if you wanna go "pro")
Don't do any of it unless you are happy being an artist, and can produce things quickly. There will be calls in the middle of the night saying "can you have this by tomorrow afternoon?" and agents and businesses don't like hearing no. If it takes you a long time, best work as a fine artist or something more personally timed (ie don't quit your day job). If you want to make money, try being an illustrator where jobs come to you - expect crazy hours you cannot control.
Remember folks : a steady 9-5 pays your bills better than I "well I dunno who is going to commission me today".
But to touch upon something in particular to your entry, Rukis - popularity is about people liking what you do. It rarely has to do with skill if you actually sit down and critique someone's work, you'll find a lot of artists rely on flashy colors than technical skill. Sitting in a dealer's den, posting your work online - your audience that responds will be based on them liking your style/aesthetics. That is where your paying clients will be from, and frankly unless you *know* those people will like it, don't ever bank on money you do not have. That is why it is hard to 'make it' as an artist when you're not flexible in style or content or do not regularly and heavily advertise yourself.
An artist I know by Kalika has a full time job as an artist, but she also has a husband with a normal job that she could depend on if she ran into any problems and vice versa. If gay marriage were legal here I would then be able to get him under my health insurance which could save a ton of money. I'm not saying you should go out and get married, this is really just based on my personal preferences of always having a safety net.
The sad fact? Odds nowadays of a local metal band going "pro" are slim to none. The pipe dreams about a record exec popping into one of your shows and whisking you away to stardom in a luxury business jet died in the 80's.
The reality of it for musicians these days is DIY. You're going to be working your day job just to scrape a living, and dedicating your time off to your music. You're going to be paying your own way to get to shows. You're going to be shagging around your own equipment every time. You're going to be paying for your own studio time. You have to promote your own stuff, sell your own tickets and most times even set up and run your own shows. In the end, if you're lucky, you'll be able to get the band to pay for itself so you can stop throwing money into it out of pocket.
I'm getting a little off topic...but I just felt like throwing this out there. I can definitely relate. Trying to make a living off of art these days is hard. For you visual artists: Who wants to pay for art when they can just come on sites like this and get it for free? For musicians: Who wants to buy your CD when they can just download the mp3's?
Bottom line? I think in both cases, above all, we do it because we enjoy it...even if it won't pay the rent anytime soon. But we can always hope!
A very well thought out and considered journal; thank you. As an aside, I have been looking for the talented artist who was drawing the comic series I saw which actually featured plot(yay) and am very glad I found you. Thank you for encouraging words and sharing your talents with us,
"A man who finds a job he loves never has to work a day in his life"
-Thomas Jefferson
I also do this for a living at this point. And this is the truest journal I have read on FA for a while.
Very well written!
OMG YES. I've had so many family members and even customers assume that "this isn't serious" or not pay me on time, etc etc all because they assume it's just a silly hobby. I do do this for a living and have been for a few years now, it's very much how I pay my bills so it constitutes as a legitimate job. I love what I do and as long as it supports me i'll kepp doing it, even despite the grief I sometimes get from people.
If you don't want to do adult artwork, it's not impossible. . . but it is going to be HARD. There ARE artists that have done it. But they are RAAAARE. I say more power to them. . . I personally enjoy doing porn. But if it's not your thing, just keep in mind. . . it might be harder to market your stuff.
Not necessarily true, it may -seem- harder, but it doesn't really have to be. I'm a G-rated artist and I've had no problems finding work (and I know many others who are the same). I think it's all about appealing to the different crowds. There are plenty of people who only want G-Rated either because they want to hang it on their walls or simply because they prefer it, you just need to find your niche and settle into it.
I think if you enjoy drawing adult pieces you totally should, but if it's not your cup of tea for whatever reason, you should never force yourself into it just because you think it'll sell best. That would be for the wrong reason, you know?
Anyways, agree on so much in your post, I think this is wonderful <3 you said a lot of things that needed to be said, most definitely :)
I also want to say the same thing as many many furry before me... You told many things that needed to be said
I'm very glad you found the fandom, we all love your work here! ^^
Considering it was gaming how I met you. I've been fairy quiet since we both moved out of the midwest, you east and me west, but I'm glad I got you into the fandom and are doing well. Thank you and I'm glad I dragged you to that first con
Just because an artist is good, doesn't always mean they'll be nice... But in my experience, she's the rarity.
Something interesting though, is that while I just started taking commissions, I've already gotten a lot of interest... And in about two weeks, I've already gotten a second commission lined up. There aren't many sculptors in the fandom, so I'm going to toss another tip out there... If you work with a different media then most people, by all means go for it! I'm only willing to take on 2-3 commissions at a time, because of the sheer about of time my sculptures can take and the work required, but if this keeps up... I have a feeling I'll have those slots filled quite easily most of the time!
I didn't have a day-job not to quit when I started out as self-employed, and I'm glad I didn't go into immediate competition in the mainstream. I have fucked up a LOT over the last couple of years, but keeping a view of supporting myself in mind I've learnt from them and I'm slowly expanding.
I started out with a few tools, ideas and a credit card. I now have a lot of tools, more grounded ideas and two credit cards. It's not a huge improvement, but at last things are picking up. I'm regularly breaking-even and making profits, and expanding my ranges. I know I wouldn't have made it this far if it weren't for the government benefits system in the UK, and a very understanding family. You're so very right about the need for self-discipline, and while mine's improved I know I still lack it. It's a hard thing to admit to yourself when it's not the markets fault, but your own when a business idea goes tits-up.
I think that's the best thing I can say; spread your net wide. Not everyone will want a comic, but they might want a print, or a badge, or a shirt. Some things also sell well outside the furry fandom. Tails and ears go down well at anime cons. I've had orders for claws from people who do LARP.
We can get there in the end. Just keep your eyes open for opportunities to expand.
Anyway, back to more casting..
I personally don't have the skill or discipline to make furry art a career or even a job for myself. But I do enjoy it as a hobby and hope to make a little money on the side just to help pay the bills... every bit counts imo.
Comics, I feel, are one of the toughest mediums to do. I've made half-hearted attempts before and got utterly discouraged because the layout alone was confounding me. So I'm glad they make money because it would suck if something that took so much work didn't bring in some dough. I am really happy you have found success in this because you deserve it.
I'm glad you wrote this journal, it kinda makes me feel better to see another artists point of view on making furry art a career. I know I have a long way to go before I can make a living from art alone, but I see it isn't impossible and that's encouragement enough for me. If you could fave journals here, I'd definately fave this one. =)
With your skills, I could see you getting accepted as a concept artist perhaps for a video game company, rather than film, though I'm not actually sure where the line between traditional art and digital art is drawn (har har har) with them. But, it sounds like for now at least, you've found you're niche and you're enjoying it. A shame you honestly need to explain all this even though most of it sounds like common sense to me, but the final tips for artists sound really good to and were things I wouldn't have thought of (probably because I'm an author by nature).Anyway, well spoken, and keep pressing on as you always have. We'll all be right behind you.
Perhaps you're not the best artist in this fandom, but you're pretty high up there. You have a very realistic style which is hard to come by - most furry artists have a style that's much more toony. I mean, sure there's artists in this fandom like Blotch, Goldenwolf, Dark Natasha who have a similar style but I don't think you can compare yourself to them - your style is distinctive. And you've proven you're more than just a porn artist, more than a one trick pony, I think that much is obvious from your comic. It was well written and well researched. And unlike other furry comics out there, it didn't seem like just an excuse for porn - the porn is awesome ofcourse but there's so much more to it.
All in all I definitely think you can expect a successful career as an artist in this fandom
Personally, I'm not as into porn as the rest of the stuff. Now, I understand if you want to do it, and I suppose that's fine. Not all porn is equal, and truthfully, I wouldn't call some things porn. Artistic nudity isn't porn. Cruelty, at least the online version, I'd peg more 75-25 on the sliding scale between artistic nudity and porn, leaning more towards the former. Porn is just gratuitous and there to make you horny. Artistic nudity is, well, artistic, and not necessarily there to get you to spooge. You don't have to be apologetic about drawing nudity. You can't please everyone, and there will always be people who will hate your work. So long as you make your check at the end of the day and enjoy what you do, and that what you do isn't hurting or exploiting people, then there's nothing to apologize for.
Side note, porn can be harmful, and this is a psychological fact. Ask a psychologist and they'll tell you what studies have shown. It's part of the reason I don't advocate for it. Also part of the reason I make the intentional distinction between artistic nudity and porn.
I've found it can be very difficult getting started. It's defintiely boom or bust. My first con I made $700-800 in the artist alley, my next I made less than $100. My advice when it comes to the con circut is to talk to other artists that have been before and see how they fared. Their often an honest source of info on how lucritive a con really is.
I've also found, being one of the few furry artists at an anime or scifi con can guarantee business as long as you make people know you are there. I try to approach it almost like animal caricatures, which can get even mundane's attention =3
Also, start local. Look for cons in cities around you before you start travelling. That is for those who actually have become successful with their conning.
Hope that helps anyone who cared enough to read all the comments :)
Life outside the furry fandom. Unless one is intending on making their career in the fandom and staying in the fandom, it would be wise to refrain from the adult aspect in case those who hire or promote you come across your work. Particularly if your line of work/career puts in the public eye.
My own is museum education(I currently work in a museum studio), having my boss or customers(Many of whom work for the state and thus get me future work) come across pornography by me would be really disastrous.
But if the artist in question does not have to deal with those possible problems, more power to them.
Furry Art IS a career, but issue is, you have less chance "to get up" than for example garage rock-n-roll band.
They playing live, and guys in all neighboor want to hear them rocking the street.
You draw you pieces live too, but with uploading it here, (bad) people starting to feel it like a "free internet picture" like... "i'm paying my internet, and now i need to pay for THIS???"
So that's pretty difficult to make this career go well. I think.
However, one thing worries me.
Aside from folks like
I think, if we do want to legitimize ourselves in the face of the usual asshats who believe that the only penises that are permitted in art are those done by grecco-roman artists, we might want to try to branch out further. Even if eroticism is a common practice, even in wildly famous artists throughout time (just look up some of your favorites, there's probably a breast or penis somewhere), perhaps growing in other ways will assist us.
Since I'm in wall-o-text, mode and don't feel like posting twice, in regards to
bitchinglobbying on the capitol, please do some work protecting the worker rather than the corporation)Takeaway: Artists are not very good at judging the sale value of art. Artists are good at figuring out the technical quality of art, and estimating the time spent on it, and other materials cost- but those are only weakly related to the sale value of art. Art appraisal is a skill like any other- it requires experience and knowledge of the market.
One example: my ex and I were walking through a (furry) art show. I stopped at a piece and commented at how nice it looked- my ex, an artist, scoffed and explained how easy it was to get that effect. Easy is a good thing if the end product still has people stopping and considering buying it.
Scott Kurtz, the guy behind PVP, once approached an older, successful cartoonist with his art. The guy said it looked nice; Kurtz asked if the successful cartoonist could tell him how to get into cartooning.
The guy responded with a firm "No. No one can tell you that, you have to figure it out. Cartooning is a business, and you need to treat it like a business; if you don't put in the effort to find out how to run a small business, you won't be able to make it."
When you think about furry art as a career, don't think about it as a job: think about it as owning a one-(wo)man studio. You need to know what your niche is; you need to know what sells; you need to practice and develop your art even when commissions aren't coming in; you need to keep good records so you can look back and compare. Most importantly, you need to seek out criticism and have a way to judge it. If you hear from a thousand people that your prices are too high, but your commission slots are filled, your prices are either right or too low. Criticism is only valuable if you can figure out whether or not it's right- otherwise it just adds stress and leads you in the wrong direction.
Like, to put you on the spot for a minute: selling the originals of Cruelty as a single lot would be a disastrous idea. No one is going to want all of them as much as one person will want each of them. You know your sales figures, you know how many people have offered to donate because they like the comic so much. I think it's far more likely that 44 people will come up with $20 than 1 person will come up with $880. Beyond that, the problem with collections is that people's tastes are different- the person who will pay the most for #33-36 probably won't pay the most for #7. Even beyond that, I'd be surprised if the person that gets #20 is the person that gets #22.
But don't just take my advice, test my advice. You can't learn if you're not looking.
Also, I think some furry artists sometimes are wrong by complaining they don't get enough cash when they ONLY try to appeal to the furry fandom (or even certain parts of the furry fandom like fetish specifics etc). it makes the question "Why isn't everyone buying my stuff?" well that is because you'd aiming for a small audience. This doesn't mean artists have to draw what they don't want to though.
I don't believe that one should focus exclusively on a "FURRY" art career. By this I mean, don't gear yourself exclusively to the fandom. That can go one of two ways... it can be really cool and awsome if you're one of these REALLY popular people and you have the networking in the community. Christ, I've seen artists who are atrocious get commissions because they're friends with the right people. Ya, I know that's how it works but that's kind of lame.
If one seeks to make a career out of any artistic endeavor they need to be able to market to the populace at large. For example... Me, I'm working towards a mild career in furry art. I have a talent with art and like drawing furry art. So, why not tap into the available market? It's sensible from a business perspective. But if ALL you're tapping is the furry community, you're setting yourself up for alot of aggravation and stress.
Aside from everything I display here I have an ass load of work that'll never make it here. I work mascot designs, company logos, game design. I feel it important to point out that if you're going to do art for a career... ya, you can do it, it's totally viable and don't let anyone ever tell you other wise. I mean, look at our friend Rukis here -^^- I have no doubt if he/she (my appologies, I haven't invested time into figuring out your gendre, it's not a rude thing, but... I dunno, a good artist is a good artist, gendre means nothing in the face of that) wanted to they could EASILY break into the open market of a "normal" art career. Very easily, Rukis has a talent for stories and character development and design.
Basically, I'm saying I don't think it wise to pursue and EXCLUSIVELY furry art career. Maybe as a jump off point, maybe as self amusement, maybe as a way to softly pad your wallet :P. If you want a career as an artist, diversification is needed. Don't carve yourself into being exclusively professional as a furry when there's so much of a larger market for this stuff that would be loved and adored just as much as we do.
EG: I've recently started reading "Aquifiers" By Kyelle Gold. Seriously... That book (while have my personal issues with some of he way it's written) should be being sent off to a general publisher and being put on the shelves of every freakin high school in North America. I ssincerely believe it could be done and his the Waterways Series would be met with as much love from the mundane populace as it has from the furry community.
Diversify... don't stay exclusively stuck in furry, expand your art, make it all it can be, all it has the potential to be. Don't get mired down in the community it's self. Might be controversial words, may sound bad, I'm not decrying the community, I'm just saying, share your art with anyone and everyone you can. You'd be amazed how many mundanes look at our art community and go "Holy fucking hell that's cool".
and very good points here, tks for some insight, ive always been wondering about this, if there's anything you can do as a job, nice nice
Good post overall :) And too bad I didn't hear the advice "don't start out in the dealers den" before! Never even been in an artist alley but I'm thankful that I've broken even the two times I've sold at a con. :P
It would be cool to be able to make furry art my career, or even just a dead end job. Maybe I can, and I'm just seeing it. I donnow, I just know that I'll have to get a hell of a lot better before I can even hope to try.
Look, I know I'm not a super popular artist but I'm more "popular" than the majority of the people who have commented on this journal and telling you to go with it.
I know a fair share of very "popular" artists and none of them have made a living off of it. I'm not saying it's impossible but this isn't one of those, "if you work hard enough, it's going to happen."
I'm sorry, your fans and your friends telling to go for it, I wouldn't listen to them.
Furry is just not the fandom to allow people to be self-sustaining. If there was; Adam Wan wouldn't be a Graphic Artist; Black Teagan (Blotch), an animator; Michele Light, a Verizon Senior Graphic Designer; TaniDaReal, a media/web designer; Jason Canty, a School Teacher; and Shinigamigirl studying to be a pharmacist.
If there are people in this fandom that makes a living, I am willing to bet that almost all of them do art in other fandoms as well.
There's a difference between being successful and being capable of making enough to live off of this.
Let's say you have it figured that you need to get 15 commissions a month to make ends meet for the month (assuming you need $1200 a month to cover bills that's still $80 a commission). You need to hope that you get 15 commissions a month every month. And when you have conventions like AC and MFF, people tend to save that money for the convention.
I'm not telling you not to do this, I'm giving you a word of caution to really think this out. Talk to as many people as you can and see why they can't make a living in this fandom but you can.
There's nothing wrong with making a second income out of this. But I would NEVER rely on this fandom to pay my rent on a consistent basis. Just because one comic draws attention to you; don't think that drawing more comics is the secret to living off of furry art. There's a difference between gaining attention/popularity and actually making money off of it.
Just my two cents worth.
Anyway, I vouch for what she's saying here. I'm like the junkie who was offered one little taste of heroin but already hocked all my stuff and just keep scrounging for my next hit. I made $60-70 my first year at Anthrocon, The first day I was just trying to sell linearts. No one really paid attention. The second day, I started selling little linework badges on index cards. The third day I pulled out my crappy colored pencils and started offering colored badges and did amazing. Then I traveled to MFF via a rideshare. I made over $300 because I knew from the start what worked to sell, how to sell and what to sell. I had a crisp clear display, I had prices that weren't too low or too high for my output. There were three commissioners I lost track of, but out of the many who commissioned me, everyone seemed pretty happy. Then I got home and my backpack was stolen from the city bus. I went to FWA and sold kind of terribly, like only another $60 but I chalked this up to looking after two newbies, working with new materials, and the fact EVERYONE at the con said that business was terrible. Morphicon is the most recent con it was also one of the worst for me, but this was mostly on account of me not planning ahead. I came late into the second day of the con traveling way too light on supplies and displays, charged way too little, and didn't have the energy to hard sell (my roomate forcing an uncomfortable furry drama why don't you love me spiel didn't help) and it was a smaller con to boot.
Hopefully I can recoup my losses here at AC, it's a local con for me, it's the biggest con, and I will go prepared as my father in law's print shop is a block from the con if I need to go run off more copies of business cards or prints, and I have all my stuff a 15-20 minute bike ride away. I really wish I didn't have to juggle my real job because it's really hard to con-crunch when you barely have time for chores.
I dunno if this was helpful or illuminating to someone, but here is one aspiring artists' story.
What I've seen happen over and over again is artists wanting it to be a career while approaching it as a hobby. As if it were an easy alternative to doing 'real work'. I can't believe the number of artists I encounter at cons who are theoretically doing this as their career, but have only 5 new pieces since the previous year.
5.
I want to ask them... what did they do with the other 340 days of the previous year?
Nobody else can make a career out of working only 4 hour a week either.
Too many of these artists are seeking art as a career in order to escape having to do a 'real' job. And so it's not surprising that they are just as unwilling to put the necessary effort into their art. In essence, when they say they are an artist, what they really mean is that they are unemployed. And it encourages the image that being an artist isn't a real job because what they're doing is basically making a mockery of the profession.
You are not a real career artist unless you are putting full time hours into it just like anyone else would at whatever profession they pursue. And doing it as a career means you won't always enjoy doing it, but you keep doing it anyway. If you stop whenever it's not fun anymore, then it's a hobby.
Thank you.
I'm a writer. I will never EVER be able to turn that into a source of living in the fandom. But I'm glad that artists can, because not only is it a cool thing to be able to do, but it makes me feel better when I give 'em the occasional potshot =P But honestly... this is great advice man. Seriously, this is really, really good advice. This gives an alternative to being a working class drone or drowning in college debt to be a doctor, but you have to want it, and you have to be flexible. You really do need to do porn, and do a comic. I mean, your Cruelty series was huge, and I'm sure it drew in hundreds of watchers. Stuff like that is immensely important, because this job needs preparation, and I'm glad to see you emphasized those points. You just go willy nilly on this and you'll fuck yourself... but you made it work. And you should be really, really proud of that.
I feel like a lot of advice from artists outside of the furry sphere, while decent under the right circumstances doesn't really apply a lot of the times to drawing furry art. I live in an isolated part of Australia so going to cons to sell stuff is kinda out of the question for me and I'm not sure if it's possible to live off of selling art commissions, at least not at my current level and that's something I've been told by multiple people, that commissions are not enough to live off of anymore.
I don't know if you reply to comments or not but I'd love to hear any advice or thoughts you may have.