FA+
Shop
news: okay... doctor at cornell allegedly abusing children
15 years ago
Commissions are currently OPEN! See below for more information.
Don't wait for the queue to shrink—the commission docket is rarely empty.Edited my title because I was admittedly a little angry >:3 I'll be like the news.
This article is very hard to read, but please do. A doctor at Cornell basically not only genitally mutilated little girls with "enlarged" clitorises (51 of them), but has been performing what a lot are seeing as annual sexual abuse on them with vibrators under the pretense of "testing". (No, really. This is really happening. In the United States.) It's a pretty big scandal. The purpose of these surgeries? To essentially "normalize" the children. Parents with no education about intersex conditions will gladly say "yes" to such butchery if a doctor tells them "your child is abnormal"... the alleged sexual abuse on top of the mutilation is what makes this story so outrageous.
It is worth noting that an abundance of hormones can cause this enlargement in otherwise "normal" girls, and often evens out as the child grows.
No ethics board gave him the go ahead -- the clitoroplasties were done and then he was given permission to write a report on the study... the subjects of the study did not have adrenal hypoplasia, though the study was designed to benefit subjects with the disorder. Again, the guy was only given permission to amalgamate reports on procedures that had already been done.
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/arc.....ell-university
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/.....ze_for_a_c.php
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt.....4khGT4R2mNfEBA
"The place where he really crosses the line is taking his IRB approval for a retrospective chart review of the surgeries and instead interpreting it as permission to do post-op tests on these little girls. He did not have permission to do that in the name of a study, and without a study justifying it there was NO REASON for him to be conducting these post operative tests. They held no benefit for the patient (as many have said- even if they were insensate he can't go back and reattach the bits), just for his curiosity to see if his amazing 'technique' actually worked. So he went home satisfied with his results and those girls went home with a traumatic experience."
If you find this practice abhorrent and ethically wrong, do something! Write the school's RESEARCH INTEGRITY BOARD, their main office whoever you can find and ask them to investigate. Copy/paste this letter, if you like (taken from Shawn Logino of the Facebook page):
"I have just been informed of this dreadful and disgusting operation that one of your distinguished doctors has been committing on young girls;
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0617/do.....olds-vibrator/
I strongly urge your organization to take a stand against the insane and barbaric practice of clitoridectomy in all its forms, and demand that this urologist limit himself to the urinary system-- which, despite the proximal coincidence, has little to do with the clitoris or its shaft.
A large clitoris is not a medical condition, any more than is a large penis. And to test six year old girls' clitoral sensitivity using a vibrator moves me to a disgust that is beyond words. Any non-credentialed adult male doing so would be branded as a sex offender for life, and quite rightly.
Thank you for your quick and decisive attention to this matter."
"We still know of no evidence that a large clitoris increases psychological risk (so is the surgery even necessary?), and we do know of substantial anecdotal evidence that it does not increase risk. Importantly, there also seems to be evidence that clitoroplasties performed in infancy do increase risk – of harm to physical and sexual functioning, as well as psychosocial harm," activists Alice Dreger and Ellen K. Feder, (a professor of medical humanities and bioethics and a professor of philosophy, respectively) wrote in an article lambasting Poppas' study.
CC it to:
-dean[at]med.cornell.edu
-pressoffice[at]cornell.edu
-community_relations[at]cornell.edu
-vp_research[at]cornell.edu
-Join the Facebook page
-http://www.intersexinitiative.org
MY RULES:
-I'm not really trying to start a discussion -- just wanted to share these links and spread some awareness.
-on this post, please don't hijack the thread regarding male circumcision. Many people feel that ALL GENITAL MUTILATION IS AWFUL, harmful, and should be stopped -- let's stay on topic if we discuss. Stay on this news article. Feel free to discuss intersex conditions, etc.
-If you write your own letters, make your own phone calls, etc., don't make threats, be polite, and express your anger in a calm manner.
-Feel free to request a copy of this journal (with BBcode and links) and I will note you with it so that you can re-post it.
This article is very hard to read, but please do. A doctor at Cornell basically not only genitally mutilated little girls with "enlarged" clitorises (51 of them), but has been performing what a lot are seeing as annual sexual abuse on them with vibrators under the pretense of "testing". (No, really. This is really happening. In the United States.) It's a pretty big scandal. The purpose of these surgeries? To essentially "normalize" the children. Parents with no education about intersex conditions will gladly say "yes" to such butchery if a doctor tells them "your child is abnormal"... the alleged sexual abuse on top of the mutilation is what makes this story so outrageous.
It is worth noting that an abundance of hormones can cause this enlargement in otherwise "normal" girls, and often evens out as the child grows.
No ethics board gave him the go ahead -- the clitoroplasties were done and then he was given permission to write a report on the study... the subjects of the study did not have adrenal hypoplasia, though the study was designed to benefit subjects with the disorder. Again, the guy was only given permission to amalgamate reports on procedures that had already been done.
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/arc.....ell-university
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/.....ze_for_a_c.php
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt.....4khGT4R2mNfEBA
"The place where he really crosses the line is taking his IRB approval for a retrospective chart review of the surgeries and instead interpreting it as permission to do post-op tests on these little girls. He did not have permission to do that in the name of a study, and without a study justifying it there was NO REASON for him to be conducting these post operative tests. They held no benefit for the patient (as many have said- even if they were insensate he can't go back and reattach the bits), just for his curiosity to see if his amazing 'technique' actually worked. So he went home satisfied with his results and those girls went home with a traumatic experience."
If you find this practice abhorrent and ethically wrong, do something! Write the school's RESEARCH INTEGRITY BOARD, their main office whoever you can find and ask them to investigate. Copy/paste this letter, if you like (taken from Shawn Logino of the Facebook page):
"I have just been informed of this dreadful and disgusting operation that one of your distinguished doctors has been committing on young girls;
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0617/do.....olds-vibrator/
I strongly urge your organization to take a stand against the insane and barbaric practice of clitoridectomy in all its forms, and demand that this urologist limit himself to the urinary system-- which, despite the proximal coincidence, has little to do with the clitoris or its shaft.
A large clitoris is not a medical condition, any more than is a large penis. And to test six year old girls' clitoral sensitivity using a vibrator moves me to a disgust that is beyond words. Any non-credentialed adult male doing so would be branded as a sex offender for life, and quite rightly.
Thank you for your quick and decisive attention to this matter."
"We still know of no evidence that a large clitoris increases psychological risk (so is the surgery even necessary?), and we do know of substantial anecdotal evidence that it does not increase risk. Importantly, there also seems to be evidence that clitoroplasties performed in infancy do increase risk – of harm to physical and sexual functioning, as well as psychosocial harm," activists Alice Dreger and Ellen K. Feder, (a professor of medical humanities and bioethics and a professor of philosophy, respectively) wrote in an article lambasting Poppas' study.
CC it to:
-dean[at]med.cornell.edu
-pressoffice[at]cornell.edu
-community_relations[at]cornell.edu
-vp_research[at]cornell.edu
-Join the Facebook page
-http://www.intersexinitiative.org
MY RULES:
-I'm not really trying to start a discussion -- just wanted to share these links and spread some awareness.
-on this post, please don't hijack the thread regarding male circumcision. Many people feel that ALL GENITAL MUTILATION IS AWFUL, harmful, and should be stopped -- let's stay on topic if we discuss. Stay on this news article. Feel free to discuss intersex conditions, etc.
-If you write your own letters, make your own phone calls, etc., don't make threats, be polite, and express your anger in a calm manner.
-Feel free to request a copy of this journal (with BBcode and links) and I will note you with it so that you can re-post it.
There's no REASON that it being too large should be worried about at their age. The only examination of that particular region is to make sure there is no abnormal growths or cysts.
Other than that, as far as I know, there is absolutely no other reason to be concerned about a clitorus that is too large except for that of sexual experiences. Which right there, is exactly what is so wrong with this.
How the fuck is this guy getting AWAY with this?!
And what about the parents who are letting their children undergo these surgeries? Are they even informed of what's going on?
If that is the case, then the parents are at fault as well, and the parents also need to be punished for their actions.
That's what pisses me off about it. These parents have no excuse to sit there like fucking idiots going "durr hurr he's a doctor." They should be asking themselves "What would I have felt if this was done to me at this age? Is this wrong? Is this hurting my child in any way? Should I consult the law about this first? Is this guy even really certified?"
There is no god damn excuse for these people. . .
I'm not mad at you, this is just. . . so sick and demented and fucking wrong on so many levels and it's just. . . . ugh. I wish I were someone with power who could take care of sick fucks like this. . .
I promise I won't bitch at you - it's not in my character to bitch at strangers unless they've done something really wrong.
Like the sick fuck in question.
Though I really doubt anything good could come out of there unless its found that veejay parts are now the cure to cancer or something...
That would be some shit.
One thing people are screaming about is -- what's the "sensitivity" testing with the vibrator for? If the girls turn out to be desensitized, it's not like the doctor can put them back together again. It's horrific child abuse under the name of research.
I mean shit, the only person benefiting from this research at this point is the doctor himself..
He gets money AND gets his rocks off chopping up little girls.
Gotta love the US.
It amazes me how many parents are completely blind to the fact that psychological damage is often worse than the physical. These children may get over the mutilation of their bodies, but their minds are going to be horribly scarred. How betrayed would you feel if your parents let a doctor cut up and molest you while they stood by and watched?
Yeah, I'm getting ill now. I need to stop.
I've been through a ton from my mother but if she had ever done this to me, that would be waaay to much.
http://e621.net/post/show/78851/fla.....onkey-spanking
I spanked my monkey at 873 miles per hour.
And the doctor is called "Dix Poppas"? Really? An urologists' name like that.. just turns this story from disgusting to disgusting and freaky.
this is an outrage.
This just reminds me far too much of female circumcision, a practice the UN and Amnesty international amongst many others have been trying to stop happening in "3rd world" countries, yet here we are reading this article. nice one Dr Poppas.
but yeah i sent that email to Amnesty. maybe they can do something
Sorry, I shouldn't joke about it that seriously is one of the most fucked up things I've ever read.
Far as I can tell, it's research on clitoral reduction in cases of individuals with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, not random ones. We're not privy to the standards for what constitutes oversized, though his grant applications would have that information, as would his review board. I don't necessarily agree with the work myself due to the age of the children and their inability to have a say in the issue, but don't blame the scientist, blame the parents signing the informed consent forms for the surgery.
I blame the scientist, not the parents, for his adamant insistence on annual "exams" in which he probes the girls with a "vibrating device" "on her inner thigh, her labia minora, and the introitus of her vagina".
We rebel against animal testing for cosmetics and certain types of medicine. This is not better.
The good doctor is not free from scrutiny simply because the parents are ignorant and easily swayed. Many a parent has agreed to butcher their child's genitals based on insistence from tradition or on the advice of a trusted authority (a doctor or a religious official). They -all- should be held accountable.
While I am fiercly into protecting children's rights and not giving them into harm, I do recognize that these people know far more than I do about what they're doing and why. As I said earlier, how do we know this isn't a ignorant twist on very important research? Sadly enough we don't have computer programs that know how the human body or even an animal's will react entirely medically speaking - so sometimes real life tests still have to be done. For all we know, he's helping these kids - I don't know what they're afflicted with, but based on his credentials (fields of practice too, specialties, etc) and what he's doing supposedly with medical field consent I hesitate to say he's a monster. Just because we see it as mutilation at the description given to us...well let's hear what the girls have to say. (pardon if I missed that)
Sorry for all the replies, I'm bouncing around windows.
But hey we're not doctors. How do we know what is necessary or not? That's my main point here. We're not urologists, how do we know that a vibrator like device (not those they sell at novelty shops you know) wasn't the best tool to figure that stuff out. How cosmetic was it? Ie some cosmetic surgery can be done to assist underlying problems. Ie you can see a plastic surgeon to fix your sleep apnea, etc.
It's not about not caring, its about making sure we know what's going on before flipping shit. Too many people flip shit on hearsay or their own misconstructions about something.
I think it should be put on lockdown research wise till it's properly investigated.
Might I add, in response to other comments from you, the scientific community is not without its faults too - humans are humans you know, despite higher learning we often react teh same way, considering how often these days claims are made (like about healthy foods, etc) and then retracted...its just a quagmire out there. One day vaccines are BAD then the dude who said it is thrown outta the medical community. I'm just advocating caution in this *very* sensitive topic, but of course to put the actual research on hold till more is known.
Btw - feel free to ASK me about what I think, instead of assume - I realize I may be a tad hypocritical, but we hadn't talking about the affect this should have on the actual research's proceedings for me to have said I would want it put on hold. Apologies if that should have been said earlier, I did just wake up not long ago!
Let's just entertain for a second the idea that this isn't all about trying to get little girls to conform to gender standards and some doctor's idea of what "normal" is. Even so, I agree with one commenter who said:
"In the absence of a significant medical problem, any permanent body modifications should require the consent of the grown up, and well-informed person whose body is under consideration for alteration."
It is simply not necessary to perform these surgeries on infants and children, nor is it at all necessary to prolong their suffering with these humiliating and exploitive "tests" every single year afterward. Anyone arguing for the sake of science needs to consider this.
Why is it that religious fundamentalists can resist stem cell research based on the idea that a 3-day-old human blastocyst has a soul, but little girls can be forced into cosmetic genital surgery and then subjected to humiliating annual "tests"?
As for the cells/religious people...oh boy I feel yah there. Its hilariously cruel how some groups will cling to some medical science but not others even when they are using the same conclusive methods.
If its a straight up cosmetic thing I definitely frown on that, part of my mission statement of drawing adult works is to promote size, appearance, etc acceptance. This includes not making women conform to any ideal of beauty especially when it comes to their privates. Heck, I've been sensitive about mine (no pun intended) since I once saw a girl in a porn video being mocked for the way her labia looked - and they looked like mine, so I grew very ashamed of having labia like that.
I hope the parents get punched in the face (especially if they didn't know, they really should have damnit!!!!), but more importantly I want these kids to be cared for.
Why is he being allowed to perform this research exclusively on children who aren't even old enough to give informed consent?
I don't understand why so many parents seem to be so easily swayed to have so little faith in nature. "Your kid's going to have a messed up life unless you let me chop at her private bits and then buzz her with a vibrator once a year." YEAH... sorry, creep, I think I'll take my chances with nature and get back to you once she's old enough to tell me if she's having self-esteem or health issues.
Okay. Bed now.
Well I am looking at a 2007 report about it from him, and that purpose doesn't line up with his stated intentions.
BUT READ AFTER YOU'VE HAD A GOOD SLEEP! get some rest, take care of yourself! I'm sure this will still be around when you wake up XD
I do promise that I'll read it. I don't want to be uninformed. But yes, after I wake up.
But from his research paper and what I've read so far, he's doing this so that women (which I suppose now includes children from his research) that are born with an enlarged clitoris can have a safer surgery option should this 'malformation' become too much of a nuisance as far as sexual experiences or painfulness in that area and want something done about it.
Nerve Sparing Ventral Clitoroplasty: Analysis of Clitoral Sensitivity and Viability
Jennifer Yang, Diane Felsen and Dix P. Poppas*
From the Institute for Pediatric Urology, New York Presbyterian Hospital, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, New York, New York
Purpose: Enlargement of the clitoris is often a prominent manifestation of virilizing congenital adrenal hyperplasia and other disorders of sexual development. Controversy persists regarding the viability and sensitivity of the clitoris following clitoroplasty. We present 51 consecutive cases of nerve sparing ventral clitoroplasty performed by a single surgeon.
source paper for that quote
Ugh tough and delicate issue, very complicated >,<
After a few hours of research -- the studies were done on girls who had enlarged clitorises but not adrenal hypoplasia, though the study was supposed to benefit reduction in cases of the disorder. Also, there was no review board to approve him... he performed the surgeries and his "exams", but was only approved to put together his reports on the already-performed procedures.
He's also not exactly credentialed in this area.
I would agree with you that the parents deserve blame for letting some guy butcher their kids, but parents are very easily bullied into elective surgeries -- especially if their failing to agree could result in their child's future misery.
There's a reason dude has a 41-foot yacht.
Far too often I've seen scientific research misunderstood by ignorant people and those idiots go off and spin things wildly out of control. I would like to see some more official documents about it before making a judgment.
(It should go without saying I care a lot about human rights, but I'm not about to make accusations from articles on sites and from authors I do not know the validity of, nor know their exact sources.)
The bottom line is, regardless of whether the damage this research will cause is worth the potential future benefits, there is something not right about his insistence of annual "sensitivity" exams. That's documented by the parents themselves.
Of course he has good ratings -- he's not being called out for malpractice.
Basically he focuses on dysfunctions in ureology fields so perhaps what he's cutting away isn't working properly? I don't want to make any allusions like I know what I'm talking about, even if I read the articles, or make any ties to other procedures but regular exams are...normal after surgeries and I would suspect if the surgery was based on bodily reactions, they would need to test that. :/
Um, I'd really appreciate it if you actually read it before replying.
Reading articles on a "underground" website isn't exactly reputation either. I looked through them for sources, because we should know better after sites like Wikipedia. I did read through parts looking for sources, to read those. I do NOT like reading watered down, spelled out for me articles from random people. For all I know, it could be some ignorant idiot mis-reading things.
And of course, look at knee-jerk reactions to "genital mutilation" - most people's thoughts immediately conjour up some remote tribal village in Africa and screaming crying women. When you think vibrator you think that pink thing in the gf's dresser drawer. Hence why I am so skeptical, I highly doubt such an institution or someone with that much knowledge, having no major issue about them as I can find before, is doing this sorta thing maliciously or like some John Wayne Gacy.
I'll keep researching it though, my intent is to find out what's really going on and not have someone spew sensationalist stuff at me.
That would be horrifying enough, particularly to the intersex movement, but his "follow-up exams" amount to little more than sexual abuse which is going to result in serious psychological damage to many, if not all, of these girls. That's aside from the damaging potential of the surgery.
These surgeries are done on the pretense of saving these little girls from psychological trauma down the line. No, seriously... read the coverage. If you can tell me that you honestly think that a girl whose body is left alone is going to suffer worse psychological trauma than she will from being mutilated and implement-raped on a yearly basis while her parents watch, then be my guest -- convince me.
But I am happy that people feel strongly about this and you're urging people to do research and take this up in a calm, productive manner. I do admire that, Holy. I certainly don't mean to be the stick in the mud, but my armor is heavy and I want to make sure I take up my sword having all my factual ducks in a row. I am giving them a re-read, so no worries there ^>^
Its a tough, sensitive issue and I would be very worried if someone DIDN'T react emotionally to it!
Again - for clarity's sake, just making sure some idiots aren't misreading everything and starting shit unnecessarily. I'm very interested in knowing the truth here, but not at the cost of getting everyone up in arms about all research of any kind, which could cause far more harm than good.
But really - a guy working at such a prestigious place allowed to do things for their jollies sounds...ehhh something's not right, but I won't pin it on the doctor just cause what they do can have a tint of the sinister to it.
Agree or disagree?
That's the problem with humans you know. We can think about what we're doing. I hate to acknowledge that we aren't all sunshine and daffodils in our long history of actions and interactions.
You can't agree or disagree, it's not that kind of easily answerable question since you're not asking me what angle that comes from. Do I believe helping future generations is important? Yes. Do I believe that some research done to human or animal subjects to be inhuman or morally vacant? Yes. Do I believe that is not a necessary evil...the answer to that is ....conflicted.
(also to a degree: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:12497498)
But on children? Tiny, tiny children? For the sake of cosmetics?
We cannot deny our knowledge in the medical field has come from a lot of sources, some of them horrible by our moral codes and ethics. As a woman, I certainly believe in beating the shit outta jackasses trying to hurt other girls for their own jollies, but I question if that *really* is the case here, or if someone's misinterpreting valid research or not. That's my question. There is *NO* question to whether hurting people for fun is right or not, and my answer to that question involves big sharp pointy objects.
The argument from incredulity should be avoided, here. :) You know the thing people say after someone in their neighborhood turns out to be a serial killer -- he was always so kind, so quiet, kept to himself, no one could have seen it coming. Often, the best place to hide is in plain sight.
The guy who peddled the complete crap about vaccines causing autism was also highly rated and worked for one of the UK's top neurological hospitals.
I've met specialists who didn't know about common conditions and talked to a doctor who couldn't tell the difference between a scar and a wart.
The most decorated doctor at my local surgery thinks anyone he can't diagnose is putting it on. He's been wrong countless times.
Just because someone's qualified/has a top rating doesn't mean they're not an idiot.
All in all, let's be *damn* sure about it, and not rely on 3rd party sources - stick to 1st party accounts when possible, from all sides.
Sorry but no.
I've seen hospitals defend doctors who injured patients through incompetency. One particular 'specialist' at my local hospital nearly killed someone by ignoring their description of their symptoms which were text book to a specific condition and performing a procedure on them without their permission that was exceedingly dangerous to do to anyone with the condition they had. He's still practising and I've seen doctors defend him and claim he's a great doctor despite his idiocy.
The Vaccine crackpot was supported by plenty of his colleagues until discredited by a review board, and that discreditation took years. Even though there were so many issues in his "study" that only a fool would take it seriously.
The medical industry is very insular in some ways, they will defend someone unless there is more to lose via association with that person than there is to gain by defending them no matter what they've done.
Sorry the "investigate FULLY and from the SOURCE before shouting allegations" is still good here. Have a nice day :D
Those are just examples, there are plenty of other cases of it taking years if not decades to do something about a doctor's unethical or dangerous behaviour.
Hell less than a hundred years ago, they were still doing lobotomies and giving people massive electric shocks to "cure" them of everything from being actually mentally ill to simply being inconvenient for their families.
My point still remains qualifications and being permitted to do something does NOT necessarily mean that what they are doing is legally or ethically okay.
I never said whether or not his credentials made it legally or ethically ok either, jeez please - don't read into what I say, if you need clarification - ask. I've been very verbal on my disagreement with hurting people. If you keep missing that, not my fault. Either way we do have valid points, so the "my opinion dick is bigger/negates yours" attitude can fly out the window plz.
(oh and lol you can't make a fair comparison between 100+ years ago medicine and modern medicine, sorry.)
A few cases? Um, I'm not talking about a few cases, these sorts of problems are literally epidemic to the medical community where a doctor will have a bad assumption/ignorance issue and it won't be sorted out for a very long time.
No, but you did argue that someone would have noticed because he's a high rated doctor, which is why I pointed out that there have been a number of cases of highly decorated doctors working in prestigious hospitals who've gotten away with some seriously unethical or otherwise stupid behaviour without it ever being dealt with for years.
Even as little as 20 years ago, they were still blaming autism on "refridgerator mothers" and saying it was caused by the mother not being loving enough, recently we had the whole vaccine flap, that took several years to sort out even though even a casual glance at the paper shows it's complete and utter bunk.
There was the massive attachment therapy scandal which actually resulted in the deaths of numerous children and the mistreatment of thousands more, some pretty big names were involves in that.
Often illegal or unethical behaviour can be accepted, condoned and widely practised by members of the medical community for years before anything is done to prevent further cases.
My whole point was that you were claiming that if it was a problem, someone would have spoken up and stopped him, while even a cursory knowledge of how the medical industry works would turn up plenty of illegal and unethical behaviour from doctors which has been widely accepted, condoned and practised for sometime before being discredited.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't research and make sure that it's an real issue before going into one. I'm saying that while people often believe that there are checks to stop this sort of thing from happening, there actually aren't as many as you would think and they do fail a fair amount of the time.
Also sometimes people misunderstand a popular opinion or trend for the whole of a society's mindset, when it could just be standing out since it is different. Ignorance is realitve to a degree, and again personal bias, knowledge limits, etc as well as how humans define things plays a lot into this.
DUde when i comes down to it, I was just trying to make the point people should research it all, and I threw out some "what ifs" and "why"s to reiterate it. If I argue for anything, it's caution and use of reasoning skills. From what I personally have read of the original reports by Dr. Poppas in this case, I think some of the media sources are leaving out important facts or re-wording things to make a bigger impact. Does that mean it's not a serious issue that needs proper investigation? Lol hell no, investigate that shit!
I will argue that I don't have a degree in pediatric urology so when it comes down to being able to properly discuss what's going on here, all I can do is act on assumptions, hearsay and emotions based on pre-conditions responses and concepts to certain words. The way things are worded have just as big of an impact on how we understand things.
*sigh* come on, postulating =/= end all be all when it comes to judging what someone's brainstorming about.
My issue is that it wouldn't be odd at all since there is plenty of prior cases where things have happened and not been stopped for years or even decades.
Basically your comments were based on a clearly faulty premise that there are checks that stop problems like what alledgedly happened here. However a little research shows that the checks do not stop problems like this all to often.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff- This makes me want to hurt every single person responsible for this in so many painful ways. I have never been this pissed off about something not directly involved in my life. WHO THE FUCK GAVE THESE PEOPLE APPROVAL AND THEIR FUNDING? *pulls out some hair*
and the sad thing is that our letters may do -nothing- to stop it.
I quote:
"There's another disturbing reason this surgery is being performed: girls with large clitorises are more likely to identify as lesbians when they grow up. Needless to say (or maybe not-so-needless): carving up a girl's clitoris does nothing to change the underlying hormonal and genetic factors that contribute to lesbian orientation and identity. Big clits don't make lesbians—lesbians sometimes make big clits. These surgeries are partly motivated by out-and-out homophobia, by the belief that "fixing" a large clit somehow prevents lesbianism. (Larger penises correlate positively with gayness in males but no one is out there shortening boys' penises.)"
Its fueled by the parents of the little girls. They consent to have this done, possibly out of fear that their child will be gay.
And the 'Organization' I know that has the biggest problems with Gays, is the Christian church.
Don't flame me about you being Christian and you wouldn't do it; because being here your more or then likely a furry and something that is also against the church (being a lot of gay/herm/lesbian/etc on this site and in the community). Also, everyones differently. They're are fanatics and zealots out there, and unfortunately, they are these little girls parents.
I, personally, will not be making any decisions about my child's body unless it is to save them from death or serious disability.
Having a clitoris that is "not normal" by some unspoken standard is NOT a disability.
If a guys penis hangs between his ankles, thats what the DNA his parents gave him, You don't see them on the chopping block?
If a 5 year old girl has got a 'large' clit, whose to say she won't 'grow' to fit it? Still, DNA FROM PARENTS. its how it works people.
We don't just go into this giant character creator in the sky and pick out pieces.
I cannot believe this is happening. If someone's clitoris is "too large" that is for the individual who GREW the damn thing to decide. It's not as if having an over-sized clit ever ruined anyone's fucking life. And testing them with a vibrator is sexual abuse. It just is. They're little GIRLS for god sakes. They can't consent, they don't know what's happening or why something is "wrong" with them.
The parents of these children need to be shot.
The doctor must be some kind of a dickless wonder. His crusade against over-sized clits must be because he's got an under-sized dick. :P
I dread to think what he does to the children when the parents aren't in the room.
http://www.boatinfoworld.com/regist.....n.asp?vn=57327
so... yes. he probably does have a small dick.
I'd laugh but I am still way too angry about this. @_@;
I too would like a copy of this journal's code so I can spread the word. I'd try and contact these people in protest like you suggested but I don't think I can control myself on this deeply emotive issue right now. Not ashamed to admit that I started crying before I'd finished reading the article. Those poor girls...
Can't form logical opinion. Too angry.
I can't express anything related to this article but a deep desire for having this fucker's cock cut of with a rusty spoon... and then poke him with a stick there to see if the nerves are spared or not.
For fucks sake!
I'm going to write a letter. Ugh.
No child should have genital surgery unless there is bloody good reason for it, ie there's a perforation or a severe abnormality which is interfering with their lives, or in the case of boys if they have a testicle slip back into the body or refuse to descend.
The human gentalia has countless permutations, they're not all like you see on porn stars, some of the sheer differences can be startling and they all perfectly normal.
Hell you can look 'normal' externally and have all kinds of weird and sometimes potentially problematic differences inside like a retrograde uterus. In women the vagina can point two different ways inside but it's the more common one shown in sex ed.
And you hear about accidents too... but this is worse, much worse than an accident T__T
If I was leader, I would declare instant death!