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[Wonderland Cards - WHERE IS THE MOOLAH? Info for Artists]
14 years ago
Bills, bills, bills. So, stuff for sale: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4010220/
Furries in Wonderland Card Deck Project: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1993096/
So I just finished typing this long explanation to an interested artist and it occurred to me I should probably have all that info in a separate post for other interested artists!
1.) If you do not want to make a card for yourself, I still need to see an example of what one of your cards *would* look like; you can then advertise the project journal and say you are taking card commissions, at whatever price you determine, and your icon/journal will be cross-listed in the main journal.
2.) 2-10 card reservations do not have to be cleared through me first, just make sure they are not already taken by checking the main post master list, and report it to me so I can update it. (remember to use the provided background fields)
3.) Major roles and/or A/K/Q/J must apply with a description of their character and a reason why they think they would be suitable for a role. These are the only cards that may have more elaborate costume, pose, and a custom background. I have been sub-commissioning
draconoskirojin for bg's at a portion of the price I charge, but you are free to do your own as long as they are near in style (painterly)
4.) I need to see the first couple card preliminary art you do to ensure it is in keeping with the suit/number roles; once you've made say 2, you can just submit the final product. (You are of course free to continue to show me the preliminary art if you'd like some feedback heh)
5.) Remember to emphasize that by commisioning a card, they are also committing to buying a deck. The deck price for commissioners is $20. You may also advertise deck pre-orders; you would collect however much you choose to charge for a deck (est. $20 min, I am charging $25 for non-commissioners ) about a week before they're ready for production, then tell me how many you have. Depending on how many total preorders we get, I will let you know how much the per-deck price is, including shipping (I will mail all your preorder decks to you, it is then up to you to distribute them). Whatever the difference is between what you charged and what I tell you you owe for the #of decks you want is your profit. After the first run, if you would like to order more decks, ie to stock at a dealer table, I suggest contacting the other participating artists to see if they also want to order some, or hold a pre-order period, in order to reduce the per-deck cost and thus increase profit.
It is not my job to manage your business practices, I do not know your "overhead" and I realize if you choose to preorder a bunch of decks to sell at a convention, it's YOUR money tied up in them. But I advise the preorder price to be $25/deck, if you choose to give someone a discount for ordering multiple decks that's cool, but you probably shouldn't go over $30.
EXCEPTION: If you DO NOT want to take pre-orders or buy additional decks to sell at, say a con, you have the option of leaving the deck money collection from your commissioners up to me, and I will also ship to them. Just realize this means you will make no profit from the deck sales, only from card commissions! Although if we do another run of decks after the first, you will be asked if you want to offer pre-orders or buy any at that point.
If you have any other questions, by all means ask!
EDIT: Let me give you an example of DECK (not art) profit with real numbers.
1.) 1 wk before deck is ready for publication, have commissioners send you their $20, and open deck-preorders for anyone else who wants one. Ex - You were commissioned 5 cards, plus did one of your own. You had 12 people pre-order.
2.) I tally up how many total decks we have for pre-order, and tell you the $/deck; Ex - it comes out to $15/deck incl tax
4.) You send me the money for $/deck, plus shipping (shipping cost will vary depending on how many preorders you had)
5.) Say you charged $25 (the price I am charging) per non-commissioner deck; since the deck price ended up at $15/deck, you would owe me $270 of the $400 you collected, plus shipping which would probably be around 7 bucks. (the math here is 12x25+5x20 - 18x15; because you didn't collect money from yourself for your own deck, if you wanted to buy one. Since you had extra preorders though you aren't obligated to purchase one for yourself)
6.) that is a $123 profit, but wait, you still have to deliver the decks to the people who ordered. Est. $3/deck for shipping, your total profit would be $72. Maybe not an amazing profit, but the more total decks that are ordered, the more profit per deck.
So I just finished typing this long explanation to an interested artist and it occurred to me I should probably have all that info in a separate post for other interested artists!
1.) If you do not want to make a card for yourself, I still need to see an example of what one of your cards *would* look like; you can then advertise the project journal and say you are taking card commissions, at whatever price you determine, and your icon/journal will be cross-listed in the main journal.
2.) 2-10 card reservations do not have to be cleared through me first, just make sure they are not already taken by checking the main post master list, and report it to me so I can update it. (remember to use the provided background fields)
3.) Major roles and/or A/K/Q/J must apply with a description of their character and a reason why they think they would be suitable for a role. These are the only cards that may have more elaborate costume, pose, and a custom background. I have been sub-commissioning
draconoskirojin for bg's at a portion of the price I charge, but you are free to do your own as long as they are near in style (painterly)4.) I need to see the first couple card preliminary art you do to ensure it is in keeping with the suit/number roles; once you've made say 2, you can just submit the final product. (You are of course free to continue to show me the preliminary art if you'd like some feedback heh)
5.) Remember to emphasize that by commisioning a card, they are also committing to buying a deck. The deck price for commissioners is $20. You may also advertise deck pre-orders; you would collect however much you choose to charge for a deck (est. $20 min, I am charging $25 for non-commissioners ) about a week before they're ready for production, then tell me how many you have. Depending on how many total preorders we get, I will let you know how much the per-deck price is, including shipping (I will mail all your preorder decks to you, it is then up to you to distribute them). Whatever the difference is between what you charged and what I tell you you owe for the #of decks you want is your profit. After the first run, if you would like to order more decks, ie to stock at a dealer table, I suggest contacting the other participating artists to see if they also want to order some, or hold a pre-order period, in order to reduce the per-deck cost and thus increase profit.
It is not my job to manage your business practices, I do not know your "overhead" and I realize if you choose to preorder a bunch of decks to sell at a convention, it's YOUR money tied up in them. But I advise the preorder price to be $25/deck, if you choose to give someone a discount for ordering multiple decks that's cool, but you probably shouldn't go over $30.
EXCEPTION: If you DO NOT want to take pre-orders or buy additional decks to sell at, say a con, you have the option of leaving the deck money collection from your commissioners up to me, and I will also ship to them. Just realize this means you will make no profit from the deck sales, only from card commissions! Although if we do another run of decks after the first, you will be asked if you want to offer pre-orders or buy any at that point.
If you have any other questions, by all means ask!
EDIT: Let me give you an example of DECK (not art) profit with real numbers.
1.) 1 wk before deck is ready for publication, have commissioners send you their $20, and open deck-preorders for anyone else who wants one. Ex - You were commissioned 5 cards, plus did one of your own. You had 12 people pre-order.
2.) I tally up how many total decks we have for pre-order, and tell you the $/deck; Ex - it comes out to $15/deck incl tax
4.) You send me the money for $/deck, plus shipping (shipping cost will vary depending on how many preorders you had)
5.) Say you charged $25 (the price I am charging) per non-commissioner deck; since the deck price ended up at $15/deck, you would owe me $270 of the $400 you collected, plus shipping which would probably be around 7 bucks. (the math here is 12x25+5x20 - 18x15; because you didn't collect money from yourself for your own deck, if you wanted to buy one. Since you had extra preorders though you aren't obligated to purchase one for yourself)
6.) that is a $123 profit, but wait, you still have to deliver the decks to the people who ordered. Est. $3/deck for shipping, your total profit would be $72. Maybe not an amazing profit, but the more total decks that are ordered, the more profit per deck.
-Where are you getting the decks printed?
-Isn't 400x640 px a little small for printing purposes, even for a standard deck of cards?
-Do you have a complete list of artists working on this project?
-Isn't it a bit unfair if artists are allowed to charge whatever they want for the deck? Especially before knowing exactly how much each deck is going to be before they're ordered. You should at least set a maximum and minimum "can not charge higher than $x or lower than $y".
-Your math and numbers are theoretical. What is the actual cost of producing a deck, so that artists might better be able to set a price and calculate their profit on one?
-Lastly, it may perhaps be a little unfair to force a commissioner to buy a deck. They buy the commission, which could be anywhere from $5 to $30, depending on the artist, and then have to pay another $20+ for the deck? It may be more fair to, say, charge a slightly lower price for the art itself if the commissioner wants to purchase a deck (considering the artist is getting a cut of that sale), and maybe raise the price a little bit for a commissioner who does not want the deck or can't afford one, but still wants to be in the deck (because that's a deck sale that the artist doesn't get).
Sorry for the nitpicking, but I've been doing a lot of personal business work myself lately, and I'd like to see people's endeavors succeed.
which has $/deck at $10.99 for 54 decks, plus a $90 "set-up" fee for "fully customizable" and $16.99 S/H (they didn't list tax so to be on the safe side I added 10% when estimating the $/deck at $15.)
- As long as the dpi is 300, and the ratio is the same as 400x640, the size doesn't really matter. Playing cards themselves are 2.5inx3.5in - from the website above: "The other option, for those graphic savvy folks, is to send us a completed hi-resolution PDF. This allows you to be as creative as you wish.The PDF must consist of a 55 page document (52 + 2 jokers + the graphic for the back), built to final size of 2.5x3.5" which is standard poker size, 300 DPI and CMYK mode. You should allow a 1/4" quiet zone around all sides when creating your art, remember the cards have round corners and these guidelines are given for best results."
- Artists taking card commissions are here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2104808/ (also listed at the bottom of the main project journal) but the only way I keep track of artists contributing single cards is by linking them on the master list. All artists will be given credit for their card(s) on a blank card included with the deck.
- I am letting artists set their own deck prices because I have seen other custom decks varying in price depending on the artist selling it. I am hoping everyone will sell around the same price; if I set a max, it might tell them "hey she said I could sell it for this much so I'm going all the way" whereas if I leave it up to them they might just use common sense and sell it for within $5 of what I am charging. It's really not up to me to regulate other artist's business decisions.
- My math numbers are theoretical because I don't know how much the $/deck will end up being. I do know at least 54 decks will be ordered, and calculating using the price on that page, plus THEIR shipping, tax, and other potential fees, it comes out to about $15 per deck. $20/deck is the minimum $/deck because it gives some room for shipping cost on our end, and maybe a dollar in profit. That is the discounted price for card commissioners, $25/deck for non-commissioners actually allows us to make a decent (wow $6?) profit on a time and money consuming project.
-If a commissioner is not willing to buy a deck, why are they commissioning to be in a deck of cards? If they just want a digital representation of themselves on a card, no one is stopping them from doing that. But for THIS project I am requiring it because $/deck goes up the less decks you order, and down the more. If you don't see the reasoning in that, that's your own opinion.
Re: size - When it comes to printing, size really does matter. 2.5x3.5" at 300dpi is 750x1050 px for the entire card. A 400x640 picture in the middle is still very small, leaving a lot of white space around the edges, even considering the margin and rounded corners. If that is what you are going for, then don't mind me, but judging from the cards uploaded in your gallery, it looks to me that you want the picture to take up a decent sized area, and to do that, you'll have to size up the pictures, which will deteriorate the quality. I'm not even going to touch on CMYK because that's a whole other can of worms, and I guarantee that nobody who is working on cards is doing them in CMYK anyway :P
Re: price - I understand your pricing scheme in theory, but in practice it would probably be better to have a set price for the deck, at least for those who will have a card in it. Of course it is not up to you to dictate what artists choose to charge for their commissions to get into the deck, but as you're the one organizing the project and getting the printing, etc, done it is technically your responsibility to set a solid price.
Consider: Commissioner X really wants their character in the deck, drawn by Artist A, who is also charging $30 for the deck. Artist B is selling the same whole deck for $25. Commissioner X would like the deck at the best price they can get it, but really doesn't care much for Artist B's work, and would not have them draw their character. Should Commissioner X really have to pay $5 more for the same deck simply because they prefer one artist over the other, especially if you're making the purchase of the deck mandatory for those who want in it? If it's mandatory, then at least make sure those that are paying to get in the deck are all paying the same price for their deck.
Why are they commissioning to be in a deck of cards if they don't want a deck? Who knows. Maybe they just like to be included in something, but can't afford the product, or at least not right away. There's tons of reasons. Sure, they could commission someone to draw them on a card, but then they're not included in a group project. That is, of course, besides my point. Most people who would buy a commission like this WOULD want the deck. But then we're back to artist deck pricing again.
Anyway, I am not bashing the idea, though it might seem that way. It has the potential to work out really well if planned carefully and organized well. I'm just giving you some things to think about that may not have come up yet.
I suppose I should clarify. The price for a deck for all commissioners is $20. Artists can then set their own price for non-commissioners, and how much they'd sell for at, say a convention dealer's den table.
Thanks for your input :)
And thanks for the offer to join, though I'd have to decline. Not because I don't think it's an interesting project, but because when it comes to such things, I'm used to being the one leading and organizing stuff, and as you can see, I tend to get a little... um... picky, critical, and overbearing regardless of my position, and I wouldn't want to subject you to that more than I already have :x
I wish you good luck with your cards, and I hope everything works out great for you and all the other artists involved ^^
Something else that you might want to consider: setting up a small webpage, or, uploading a submission here on FA that has all your info in it for artists and buyers, etc, (submissions get more views than journals, plus you could use examples of cards already done as the submission) and get an FA ad directed to it. Might help not only with directing potential commissioners to artists participating, but might get you a few more preorders too :o $20 for an ad for a month, sell one deck and you've made your money back! (If you've already done this, I might have missed it though)
Just after I posted my reply, it appeared for me :P Derp.
I would LOVE to do the Mad Hatter and I think Toska would work great for that part because she is a bit mad herself and has a mild obsession with the character =D If not I would love to be the 3 of clubs. But if my art isn't good enough I completely understand that the project needs a certain standard.
I've been trying to get my name more out there, so this project would also help me in that (plus I'd be able to get a deck, which I collect anyway!)
Sooo... is there a form to fill out or would you like me to try and do one of my own and show that or...?
I also haven't drawn him in the longest time so it'd be very fun :3