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Behavioral Issues at Hopkins Meet
14 years ago
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IRC Channel: #MNFurs (irc.furnet.org) Folks, there's been some complaints about the local group at our regular furmeets. I'm sure some of you have already heard from the more vocal members, but I think it's necessary to re-iterate here.
Now, I know most of you who are regulars to a meet have no problem with these things, but because they have been issues I need to remind everyone about them.
The Perkins and Caribou in Hopkins have been incredibly patient with us, despite the various problems that have arisen, namely behavior and courtesy with the employees. However, there have been several new complaints that may wear the group's welcome to the point of refusing us outright, the worst of which being -- believe it or not -- a pair entering a single-person bathroom and staying for an extended time, possibly sexual activity.
Naturally, this is very concerning for both workers and other customers, so this kind of behavior needs to be stopped and taken somewhere else. Our behavior has already made incidents where other customers would simply walk out as soon as they walk in upon seeing us, and this will also give us bad marks by the restaurants.
Now, I'm not going to point fingers, especially since I was not witness to these things, but I do need to sternly remind you all of proper etiquette at a furmeet, whether you're guilty or not. You have to remember that not everyone out there is a furry, and can be uncomfortable with porn, costumes, homosexual behavior, or anything of an adult nature around themselves or children.
1. DRESS APPROPRIATELY. Fursuits are prohibited in public buildings by state law as they conceal your identity, but you folks know better anyways. Ears and tails are the biggest concern, however -- while they are not an actual problem, it's not exactly normal attire, so please, save the rest of us from embarrassment.
2. ACT APPROPRIATELY. Remember your "indoor voice" in grade school? Apparently this is still an issue for some people. I can understand the natural inclination to speak louder and louder in places like Caribou when it gets so full of people, but try to control yourself. Squealing and shouting at Perkins is rather frowned upon as well. Horsing around will only make matters worse as well, so don't start wrestling/tickling each other just because you're getting wound up.
3. GET A ROOM. Seriously? Making out (with tongue?!) at Caribou? Some of you seem to have trouble restraining your affection in public. Try not to take it more than hugs and brief kisses. Gay affections (two guys kissing, etc.) are also likely to get us dirty looks. And sex in the bathroom/sharing a single-occupant bathroom with another person is an absolute no-no.
4. KEEP ART/COMPUTER SFW. There seems to be a problem with artists and laptop users keeping open adult/pornographic material open in their sketchbooks and their desktops in public, and it's made other customers uncomfortable. Please, leave it at home or tucked in a folder, change your desktop wallpaper, whatever needs to be done. Browsing e621 at a Caribou Coffee is not exactly the most brilliant of ideas. And please leave pornographic badges at home.
5. PROPER RESTAURANT BEHAVIOR. Common sense should tell you that if you're going to Perkins or Caribou, you should at least order something so that you're not simply loitering around (even just a glass of water). Bringing outside food and eating it inside is not appropriate, so leave/eat it in the car or out in the parking lot. And please, please, please, PLEASE TIP THE WAITERS/WAITRESSES if you order food. These people work hard to provide us with the environment we're so comfortable with, and may even be living off of the tips people give them. Please be considerate of them! Also, for pete's sake, what gives you the need to steal the tip jar to begin with? You're not five years old.
Remember folks, we need to leave a good impression with people when we are in public if we want to keep doing these things. A little self-control goes a long way. We need to act like grown, responsible adults. I can't stress this enough.
Cheers,
thesomething
I could also put it this way: If you come to the meets just to get in someone's pants, or to jump out of your own for the whole world to see, and not to socialize, play games together, eat good food, and just have fun with others in a public environment...you may want to reconsider staying in that basement closet of yours for some time yet, or finding some place that's a bit more accepting of that kind of behavior, like a nightclub.
Now, I know most of you who are regulars to a meet have no problem with these things, but because they have been issues I need to remind everyone about them.
The Perkins and Caribou in Hopkins have been incredibly patient with us, despite the various problems that have arisen, namely behavior and courtesy with the employees. However, there have been several new complaints that may wear the group's welcome to the point of refusing us outright, the worst of which being -- believe it or not -- a pair entering a single-person bathroom and staying for an extended time, possibly sexual activity.
Naturally, this is very concerning for both workers and other customers, so this kind of behavior needs to be stopped and taken somewhere else. Our behavior has already made incidents where other customers would simply walk out as soon as they walk in upon seeing us, and this will also give us bad marks by the restaurants.
Now, I'm not going to point fingers, especially since I was not witness to these things, but I do need to sternly remind you all of proper etiquette at a furmeet, whether you're guilty or not. You have to remember that not everyone out there is a furry, and can be uncomfortable with porn, costumes, homosexual behavior, or anything of an adult nature around themselves or children.
1. DRESS APPROPRIATELY. Fursuits are prohibited in public buildings by state law as they conceal your identity, but you folks know better anyways. Ears and tails are the biggest concern, however -- while they are not an actual problem, it's not exactly normal attire, so please, save the rest of us from embarrassment.
2. ACT APPROPRIATELY. Remember your "indoor voice" in grade school? Apparently this is still an issue for some people. I can understand the natural inclination to speak louder and louder in places like Caribou when it gets so full of people, but try to control yourself. Squealing and shouting at Perkins is rather frowned upon as well. Horsing around will only make matters worse as well, so don't start wrestling/tickling each other just because you're getting wound up.
3. GET A ROOM. Seriously? Making out (with tongue?!) at Caribou? Some of you seem to have trouble restraining your affection in public. Try not to take it more than hugs and brief kisses. Gay affections (two guys kissing, etc.) are also likely to get us dirty looks. And sex in the bathroom/sharing a single-occupant bathroom with another person is an absolute no-no.
4. KEEP ART/COMPUTER SFW. There seems to be a problem with artists and laptop users keeping open adult/pornographic material open in their sketchbooks and their desktops in public, and it's made other customers uncomfortable. Please, leave it at home or tucked in a folder, change your desktop wallpaper, whatever needs to be done. Browsing e621 at a Caribou Coffee is not exactly the most brilliant of ideas. And please leave pornographic badges at home.
5. PROPER RESTAURANT BEHAVIOR. Common sense should tell you that if you're going to Perkins or Caribou, you should at least order something so that you're not simply loitering around (even just a glass of water). Bringing outside food and eating it inside is not appropriate, so leave/eat it in the car or out in the parking lot. And please, please, please, PLEASE TIP THE WAITERS/WAITRESSES if you order food. These people work hard to provide us with the environment we're so comfortable with, and may even be living off of the tips people give them. Please be considerate of them! Also, for pete's sake, what gives you the need to steal the tip jar to begin with? You're not five years old.
Remember folks, we need to leave a good impression with people when we are in public if we want to keep doing these things. A little self-control goes a long way. We need to act like grown, responsible adults. I can't stress this enough.
Cheers,
thesomethingI could also put it this way: If you come to the meets just to get in someone's pants, or to jump out of your own for the whole world to see, and not to socialize, play games together, eat good food, and just have fun with others in a public environment...you may want to reconsider staying in that basement closet of yours for some time yet, or finding some place that's a bit more accepting of that kind of behavior, like a nightclub.
Making out in public?!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME PEOPLE.
And furs say they don't deserve the shoddy reputation; not everyone in the fandom is that stupid, but what will non-furs think if they see two guys sucking face in the line at Caribou?
IKR?!
wow
I've never been to a meet, and was considering going to the next one, but I'm not sure if I still want to...
But yes, I am haha
before coming.ftfy.
I think a point has to be made - The Caribou is not the furmeet. The Caribou is just something a few people started to do. It's no different then any other impromptu fur gathering that might happen during the week. That said, it might be something that the MNFurs organization steps in and makes an announcement about - that's something that still needs to be discussed - but bringing it up like this, imo, just ends up sensationalizing the incident and makes our group look bad.
Points like which group is a group and which is not, is gonna cause dissention and metaphorical civil war amongst MN furries.
I guess I gotta keep in mind that MinnesotaFurs and MNFurs are two separate entities. The MNFurs organization still needs to meet to discuss this and plan a course of action. Seeing a post about it on MinnesotaFurs I felt like it circumvented the process... like I said, it's a different organization and I'm trying to remember that.
And if we dont Post about things, how do they get solved in the first place if people on face level dont listen? I mean Im sure that when you guys meet to plan for MNfurs, that you guys will take care of it, but that takes time, and at any given Saturday, Caribou and Perkins has the right to go "No More Furries" So post like these are more pre-emptive actions and actions to keep people in line. People do read these posts, and as specified in the three I've read so far, that rules for caribou and perkins have been applied it seems. Better prevention on a daily than a weekly basis.
Keeping Secrecy doesnt always solve everything.
As for your question of why there are two groups... someone else should answer that. I've spammed this journal quite enough.
MNFurs was a previously existing group that focused on organizing local meets and events.
There are two group pages, because there are two groups. One is a group of furs that live in Minnesota, and the other is a group that organizes things for furs in Minnesota.(A big difference.)
I'm also going to add something regarding whether this should have been posted or not. The advertising is great, provided it is clear that it is advertising and another group is actually in charge of said event. Posting statements on behalf of another group without them knowing is bad. We don't discuss things in private because they are "secret", but rather because they have to be discussed by mature people so everyone else can be informed in an appropriate manner. Be assured, for something as important as this, we would not sit around waiting for the next steering group meeting.
I also understand the concept of things needing to be discussed in private, I just think its does help to make sure that its aware on the open, and atleast the two journals I read before this one seemed to me (And I could be wrong on the idea) but seem to address it conciously on both perkins and caribou policies of good behavior just as a generally expressed idea.
I dunno, but I do understand the reason for two groups now and it does make sense when put that way, thank you for explaining.
If I can't be myself, the MAIN point of being a furry imo, I wouldn't want to go.
*puts up the "flame shield, cuz someone's gonna baww about someone else having an opinion*
:P
If ears and tails are going to "hurt your reputation" with the "norms" then I have to ask, why be a furry, or even hold a meet?
I can't speak for Caribou, since I have kept my distance from that particular meet.
Rather than saying they are and that people shouldn't/can't wear them and that ay wearing them we're being "embarassing"
I saw no journals from them.
Then again, I am on my PSP while my PC is in the shop, maybe I missed it.
Would you wear ears and a tail to your place of work? Why not? Is it different than any other place of business?
There are plenty of other places where wearing ears and a tail is probably just fine and dandy. For example, the spring/fall picnics held in a public park have people with full on fursuits. Fursuit bowling? Yep you betcha!
Fursuit Perkins? No. If ears and tails make management squeamish because it scares customers, that's just how it is. Sometimes it's just not always appropriate. Understanding what is and isn't appropriate (and where!) is part of being a mature, responsible adult in society. It's tact!
Thanks, and have a nice day
:D
Should it have to be this way? No. But let's be frank here...we're not renting space. This isn't a place we own in -any way-. It's a privately owned business that is LOSING BUSINESS because of people in the group acting poorly. That means, unfortunately, that restrictions have to be put in place. If you're upset, be upset at the people who are causing the problems in the first place. When the management of Caribou has to talk to us about poor behavior, we're kind of lucky they're still letting us be there at all.
The fact still remains, I would feel unwelcome if given a dress code.
But that's moot, as someone already pointed out that that part of the journal is in error.
If I could afford to go to the Perkins meet, I would go wearing what -I- choose to wear, people don't like that, fine, but they also have NO right to tell w me what I can and cannot wear, taking into consideration that said clothing violates no laws.
I never said it was to feel "unique" or "special" that's you trying to lay your hang-ups on me and is rather insulting.
Unlike some people, I'm not ashamed to admit in public that I am a furry.
Text limit for my PSP more next
Consider this, if you will, MNFurs has ALREADY stated that wearing ears and tails is allowed, provided they're not massive and over the top, so according to them common decency is "don't wear them so big that you're whacking others with them"
So, yeah, Cyrus just made his statements before clearing them with MNFurs.
End of story.
1) These businesses are -privately owned-. If they want, they can tell you, or anyone else, to vacate the premises for any reason they desire. If you refuse, you are in violation of trespass law, and they are well within their legal rights to call the police to make sure you leave. That is the situation we're currently dealing with. If things get any worse at Caribou, the management are well within their rights to kick ALL OF US out. So yes, they -do- in fact have the right to tell you what you can and cannot do in their -privately owned establishment-.
2) The MNFurs group is not a leadership group, board of directors, or any other such nonsense. It's a group for people to organize things under. Since the places in question here are technically public venues (though still privately owned), unless you are forbidden by the establishment from showing up no one can keep you from coming. This means that the only actual authorities in this case are the MANAGEMENT of the respective locations. Anything else is a suggestion, and can only be 'policed' by the group at large. So yes, you could show up wearing MASSIVE ears and a HUGE tail if you wanted, as while many people in the fur group may 'suggest' you don't, they don't have the authority to actually prevent you. However, doing as you please may result in actions being taken against the group as a whole.
3) These aren't hypothetical situations. These aren't theories. This journal came about because the management of Caribou itself had to step in and warn us that things were getting out of hand, and that the next step could very well mean the group would be kicked out. These suggestions are an attempt to get people to wake up and realize that they're causing a REAL disturbance, and their actions are driving actual, paying customers away. If we want to still be able to go there, then we need to keep ourselves somewhat in check. If you're completely unable to do so, then perhaps you shouldn't be there anyway.
2a, MNFurs run th meets, when THEY say I can't, I won't.
2b, they aren't huge.
2c, as you put it, hypothetical, I was referring to others.
3, again, Perkins
1. Just because things aren't as bad at Perkins doesn't mean they won't get that way. In fact, I know for a fact that there are already many people there exhibiting the behaviors that this journal was meant to address.
2. MNFurs does NOT own Perkins. MNFurs is NOT the final say in ANYTHING that goes on there, PERKINS is. THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE.
3. Again, these are problems that the group has on the whole. It's not just isolated.
Did Perkins make the journal?
No`
Can Perkins say no dressing?
Sure.
Have they?
Not to my knowledge, no`
Does Cyrus have the authority to tell people going to an MNFurs meet what to do?
No, he has about as much authority to do so as you or I.
Finally, I am not speaking on the behavior of the group, i.e. the unruly, noisy behavior or the porn in public, I agree with most of the journal.
You seem to be under the impression that I'm against the whole thing, I am not.
I am speaking solely on the fact thst neither MNFurs nor Perkins have expressly forbade anyone from dressing for meets.
But go on, ignore my "input" and post your next post about how Perkins owns the building and how the group has absolutely no control over its members.
I've said what I came to say and I'm done arguing with you.
It's clear to me you just don't get what I'm saying.
Instead, I'll leave you with this:
What we ask is that we not have to set a strict set of rules, what can and cannot be done. We ask that everyone police their own actions, and consider how your behaviors and appearances may affect those around you, both in and outside of the group. Furries in general are still regarded by large portions of society as little more than perverse fetishists and social outcasts who have no regard for those around them. Unfortunately, the things that have been occuring at Caribou (which is, after all, what this entire journal was aimed at), have done little more than reinforce those negative stereotypes. Remember that these places are public venues. We're not the only ones there. I do understand the desire to be yourself, especially among others that share a common interest. However, if what you wear or do may be disruptive in such a public environment, maybe you could stand to not do or wear that for a little while. By all means, meet up with friends there, go to someone's house, and be yourself as much as you want. When we're in public though, especially in such a large and easily-indentifiable group as the Hopkins meet has become, we should be willing to show that we're willing to coexist with those around us.
When behavior gets to the point that rules have to be made, it's already gone too far. We want to trust people to police themselves appropriately. Just be mindful of how things may affect others, even if there's not a rule in place explicitly forbidding something.
Also, making a policy statemdnt for a group you aren't in charge of, fail.
Next time you should ask them if it's okay to do so.
It would avoid things like this happening again.
Also, it personally offends me that you call those of us who do wear ears and tails an embarassment.
The problem is that people were acting stupidly at Caribou, and it reflects poorly on the whole group. Therefore, I am simply reminding people that they need to watch their behavior in public if they wish to continue meeting up regularly.
I have no problem with your other suggestions however, but they ARE suggestions as you have no real say in THEIR policy.
Yeah, I'm going to listen to him.
No, wait, I'm NOT going to.
Nice try on trolling again, too bad it failed.
Have a nice day, douche
:D
In short, better when he had it.
Though Cyrus running it is STILL better than you using it as your own personal baww platform.
:D
You bitched about how people were trying to ruin your reputation.
You bitched about the accusations that you used meet entry fees for your own personal use.
All things you SHOULD have done on your own page.
But no, you aired your dirty laundry on the group page, then quickly deleted the journals when people wouldn't say "Oh, poor Pepper."
Sounds like personal use to me.
You know, hearing about these types of things makes me consider never going to a meet.
I mean, really...hiding away because some people are being a bad example of what furries are isn't going to fix anything. It's just going to ensure that there are fewer responsible people around, which only makes it more likely that those setting a bad example are going to get noticed and become viewed as the 'norm'. So, while you're not actively hurting our public image, you're not helping it either. Please, come to the meets, help show the management of the places we frequent (and the public at large) that there -are- good furries out there, and that we can be trusted.
Take it with a grain of salt, kids.
==========================================
Let's say you're the manager of an establishment that caters to all people and very tolerant of their varied (and/or slightly questionable) lifestyles. Now--bear with me on this one--I come in to your establishment and be very disrespectful to the patrons and staff, as well as act in a way that makes the environment unwelcoming for those present. I'm just your average guy, indistinguishable from anybody else out there. Not much to worry about; there's always a few people who act like that for whatever reason.
Let's mix this up a bit, shall we?
Now, I'm part of a semi-large group of people that identify themselves openly--say, a black and red armband. If I were to bring some of my friends from said group to your place and act in the same manner that I did before, would you welcome that group back to your place?
Frankly, I wouldn't--no matter if it was just a few bad apples. And I'd sure as hell hope you say the same.
You have to remember that, even though you're "a special flower", you're still part of a group that has a less-than-favorable reputation about them. With these recent examples going on, you're doing nothing but contributing to that reputation. Hell, those of us looking to enjoy the company of others in a way that isn't sexual and/or affectionate are suffering.
I'm fuckin' glad they're about to kick you all out. Some of you need to learn how to act appropriately when in public; especially when you're at a place like Caribou. And don't pull that "I'm gay and I can act however I want, deal with it!/I don't have to listen to you, you're not my mother!/This is a free country, fuck off!" shit; if you're being disruptive and disregarding others, they're in the right to kick you to the curb like the filthy "animals" you are.
On a side note, I think it would be a wonderful idea to play some sports or something for a meet up. perhaps baseball or hoops or whatever. I need to get my ass in shape anyway. paintball? nature walk?. just something nice and structured :)