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Unprofessional Artist list for 2011
14 years ago
I was honestly waiting for a few more artists to make their final decisions or complete artwork before posting another "unprofessional artist" journal. But one artist in particular decided to make our transaction personal, rather than merely business. Hence today's journal.
Randomdragon aka 
drcotten
I had a good first run with him, several commissions, under my original policy, he was timely, respectful and seemed an ok fellow. I figured this meant I found a trustworthy artist to toss projects too, it was a BAD decision on my part.
I saw him post a journal saying he was low on funds, something to do with car and computer and he was taking commissions to make ends meet. So I told him I'd take quite a few slots. He was still working on an older commission I had already pre-paid in full. This unfinished commission and the prior commission were agreed too BY HIM before I sent payment in full for both batches.
I paid(commissioned) him on:
10Dec2008 for the first piece, it was completely fairly quickly.
25Dec2010 for the second piece, it was completely in a reasonable amount of time as well.
29Dec2010 for the third piece, it was started but never finished this was canceled by him, not me.
13Feb2011 for a batch of 8 pieces, these were never started and canceled by him, not me.
I contacted him via email (reply) on the 1st of June almost 4 months later to inquire status, as my policy used to state that I WILL contact you at the three month mark if you fail to keep me updated on status.(Policy being redone to remove this risk)
I got no response. So I attempted to contact him on Chats, Again he wasn't replying. I sent a note, the note I got a response too. It said he doesn't bother reading his email, and was just leaving chat on and not using it. It further stated he lost all my concepts reference (yet he never bothered to tell me this until I inquired). So I sent it to him a second time.
I contacted him again on the 6th of August, figured since he lost the refs once, he probably did again, was giving him the chance to offer WIP or ask for refs. He immediately states:
8/6/2011
(2:40:06 PM) Him: gonna refund you on your commishes, work has taken up all my time unfortuanly
I gave him the transaction ID to more easily find the transaction performed, as we had several. He posted a journal a few days later RE-OPENING commissions on his Drcotten account, probably thinking I wouldn't see it. So he flat out lied to me, instead of saying he no longer wanted to do the art he said work was taking all his time and he couldn't do art. So I enacted my clause for interest, as HE canceled the commissions, not me, and not only that, lied about it.
On the 28th of August I still had no refund, so I inquired again This is when he flat out said he doesn't use Email, even though he had in the past. He refused to use the transaction ID I'd given him, forcing me to give the email address. At this point I sent him the emails I'd sent previously as text and he said he refused to pay the interest, as it's stupid. SO I wound up loaning him money for almost 7months, and he see's no reason to reimburse me for the loan. It became a loan when he refused to perform services paid for, after he agreed to the commission policy and accepting the
money.
I'm honestly going to recommend people avoid him.
I personally have no patience/time for artists like this, I doubt anyone else does. You commit to an agreement, this is business, not your average street dupe for free money.
Read his commentary/opinion here http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6712793/
Randomdragon hid my comment back at him on his gallery also, 16th down (including nested). Not bothering to reply, I really don't care if he blocked or not.
My hidden comment :D
Actually it was 3 bucks, your getting pissy over three bucks. Lets not forget you lied to me, said work had you too busy then you open for commissions 3 days later. Of course you cleared out all your journals. You agreed to interest in the event you canceled the commission when you read the policy, you told me you READ it, then you ACCEPTED the money.
Here's my official reply, though I was going to wait a bit longer to post it. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2836795/
Randomdragon aka 
drcottenI had a good first run with him, several commissions, under my original policy, he was timely, respectful and seemed an ok fellow. I figured this meant I found a trustworthy artist to toss projects too, it was a BAD decision on my part.
I saw him post a journal saying he was low on funds, something to do with car and computer and he was taking commissions to make ends meet. So I told him I'd take quite a few slots. He was still working on an older commission I had already pre-paid in full. This unfinished commission and the prior commission were agreed too BY HIM before I sent payment in full for both batches.
I paid(commissioned) him on:
10Dec2008 for the first piece, it was completely fairly quickly.
25Dec2010 for the second piece, it was completely in a reasonable amount of time as well.
29Dec2010 for the third piece, it was started but never finished this was canceled by him, not me.
13Feb2011 for a batch of 8 pieces, these were never started and canceled by him, not me.
I contacted him via email (reply) on the 1st of June almost 4 months later to inquire status, as my policy used to state that I WILL contact you at the three month mark if you fail to keep me updated on status.(Policy being redone to remove this risk)
I got no response. So I attempted to contact him on Chats, Again he wasn't replying. I sent a note, the note I got a response too. It said he doesn't bother reading his email, and was just leaving chat on and not using it. It further stated he lost all my concepts reference (yet he never bothered to tell me this until I inquired). So I sent it to him a second time.
I contacted him again on the 6th of August, figured since he lost the refs once, he probably did again, was giving him the chance to offer WIP or ask for refs. He immediately states:
8/6/2011
(2:40:06 PM) Him: gonna refund you on your commishes, work has taken up all my time unfortuanly
I gave him the transaction ID to more easily find the transaction performed, as we had several. He posted a journal a few days later RE-OPENING commissions on his Drcotten account, probably thinking I wouldn't see it. So he flat out lied to me, instead of saying he no longer wanted to do the art he said work was taking all his time and he couldn't do art. So I enacted my clause for interest, as HE canceled the commissions, not me, and not only that, lied about it.
On the 28th of August I still had no refund, so I inquired again This is when he flat out said he doesn't use Email, even though he had in the past. He refused to use the transaction ID I'd given him, forcing me to give the email address. At this point I sent him the emails I'd sent previously as text and he said he refused to pay the interest, as it's stupid. SO I wound up loaning him money for almost 7months, and he see's no reason to reimburse me for the loan. It became a loan when he refused to perform services paid for, after he agreed to the commission policy and accepting the
money.
I'm honestly going to recommend people avoid him.
I personally have no patience/time for artists like this, I doubt anyone else does. You commit to an agreement, this is business, not your average street dupe for free money.
Read his commentary/opinion here http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6712793/
----EDIT
Randomdragon hid my comment back at him on his gallery also, 16th down (including nested). Not bothering to reply, I really don't care if he blocked or not.
My hidden comment :D
Actually it was 3 bucks, your getting pissy over three bucks. Lets not forget you lied to me, said work had you too busy then you open for commissions 3 days later. Of course you cleared out all your journals. You agreed to interest in the event you canceled the commission when you read the policy, you told me you READ it, then you ACCEPTED the money.
Here's my official reply, though I was going to wait a bit longer to post it. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2836795/
The gallery is here for me to share art I buy with you, the community. This guy lied/refused to abide by our agreement and then badmouthed me publicly for no reason. Over 3 bucks? Seriously. HE canceled the commissions because I asked about their status. I didn't tell him to cancel them. I don't want other people running into this issue.
You shouldn't take more commissions without completing your first batch if what Ssvanti says is true, but at least you did refund him.
The purchaser has control that some people seem to forget/ignore. Making it more official just helps to keep those things on the table.
I understand that everyone has their own expectations, and those expectations can differ, which can cause friction like this. For example, I know you send out your policies, expecting the artist to read and understand them before agreeing to them. However, the thing that scares me is how seriously you approach commissioning someone, where that someone may only do art as a side hobby, which would mean they don't take it as seriously as you do. Perhaps the scariest thing is when the artist agrees to the terms, despite him/her not being on the same level of seriousness.
I've seen this dance performed multiple times before. P buys commission from Q, Q can't or doesn't want to do it, Q makes excuse to P, disappears, or refunds. Soonafter, Q opens for commissions yet again, seemingly contradicting him/herself. P slanders Q, Q slanders P, and a happy internet time is had by all. I've also seen the opposite dance, where it's the commissioner being flaky instead of the artist.
So in essence, what's supposed to be entertainment and enlightenment for both artists and non-artists alike, becomes a giant shitfest because money is involved.
...thanks for the soapbox, I guess. :P
I don't like when it starts turning into "I only do art for the money, thus commissions are open." It makes my heart sink every time I notice it, especially when artists start abusing it.
Not all artists are like Tojo or some other big name who can spit out a picture every 8hrs, pretty much you are saying "if you cant finish a pic fast, then you gotta give it away for free" This is art, not a pizza delivery service catering to the wal-mart generation of anal consumers, I offered commission in the past and the people who did commission me were perfectly understanding when I told them that my art does go slow, hell I can spend a good few weeks, heck even up to a month given how I got an outside life.
Im sorry but we don't need all artists to be considered business men cause I think that is just people wanting furries to turn into wal-mart where you suck dick for people with no patience and their heads up their asses.
Seriously, is three months to much to be humanly expected to have received word back on the status of a project? If it is, are you professional enough, proficient enough, and dedicated enough to actually be charging for the service?
Artists tend to forget that some of use, while enjoying art, get a strong urge to see something rendered in the moment. Not 3 years after the fact, after we've changed tastes and are no longer as interested, if even still interested in the concept. This is why I TRY to find artists who have speed/quality. Price can be negotiated. I do tend to steer away from artists who take forever, or who seem to think it's GREAT to QUEUE up more than 3 commissions and they can't finish even one in a month, yet require full payment to get the slot............ um hello!
If I have a more friendly project with another person, where the two of us are looking for a style over speed/quality, those aren't as bad.
I have expectations when I spend my money with an artist, I don't expect everyone else to have the same expectations.
What I DO believe is that every single artist should offer a full refund there and then if they can't complete it. There should be no excuses about bank transfers from them, as paypal can take money directly from an account. But equally on your part, no interest charged; that's, for lack of a better term, a dick move. You should treat artists with the respect you want to be treated with; they're people, not business partners. What you should do instead is ask for a completion time and say you'd be after a refund after that time, which is fair. None of this contract nonsense (I know you call it a policy, but I really just think it's a contract, since there seem to be consequences for breaking the terms).
Am i looking to make artists lives a living hell, NO, I'm just looking to reduce MY RISK with untrustworthy people. The fandom seems to be latent with it. Every time I find a new artist I'm getting stories about, OH they haven't finished my piece in 7 years, don't hire them. The fandom is making this more complicated than it needs to be. I'm using a procedure to weed out a majority of the bad apples. If I toss a few good ones in the process oh well. I'm not playing with life or death here, just my money. This is a hobby for me. Like stamp collecting. When I get to a point where I can render my own art I'll stop commissioning and just draw it myself.
Its just common sense, and generally in the case of artist and commissioner, there should be a steady stream of communication between the two to provide updates, ask questions, let know of any difficulties etc. I don't think its generally that hard, but then again, what do I know? I'm a commissioner, not an artist.
These days I do the commissioning myself since I am kind of like you, I know what I want and I know how to make it clear to the person about what I want. I am not always comfortable about letting others doing the commission handling for me cause I always worry that something will screw up.
But thanks for the warning about Random, I actually had thought of commissioning him, but have since looked for other artists.
I learned a valuable lesson, readjusting aim and preparing to refire!
Your a business man.. and you know how to get shit done... I have learned a LOT from this situation and from now on I will hold you in the upmost highest regards because of your professionalism and your cutthroay attitude..
You are prolly one of thee most powerful furries out there and you can make or break anyones artistic career if they fuck with you.. :3
I like it..
Anyone who decides to dick you around is asking for artistic suicide.. no matter how you spin it. :P
There are lots of fish in the sea ;)
High-end artists, those who reach the point where commissioners pay thousands of dollars for their paintings, sculptures, etc., understand this.
In short, thank you for the warning, and my condolences for your headache.
The biggest issue I have with artists more than with $$ and being timely, is artists like to refuse to look at character reference. A lot of them just want to take an existing image, and copy what's in it. I'll admit that my reference journal is a bit cumbersome, but I'm normally not just buying your standard 10-50 dollar commissions either. I'm investing money in an image, hoping to get more than just a copy with tweaks.
I've been reworking my reference journal to minimize the reading and arrange the data in an easier to spot it manner. As an example, when I tell artists 3 times (via note/email/chat) I prefer to have the image done and then have cum added on a separate layer so there are two versions of the final image, and they make a single image with cum all on the same layer, it's a little aggravating.
So the point is to have a policy up front and have the artist read all of your expectations, just as they have a policy that lists all their will/won't do's, timelines, queue policy, etc, so there's no misunderstanding later. At the time of reading the policy is when the artist should voice issues/concerns/etc, not after the money's changed hands and you've been queued for months. All the business stuff should be taken care of prior to the $$ moving.
FREE TYPO FOR YOU
The artist should contact you with issues, not the other way around. But if they aren't giving you any information and you are approaching the deadline, drop them a quick, polite note inquiring, if they pull something like RD did, listed above, then I'd recommend not commissioning them again and letting others know. If something's going on that you feel warrants an extension to the project, that's your call. I'm not saying if the deadline can't be met to blast the artist, I'm saying use common sense, their history, and if you do move the deadline, make sure that doesn't become the trend, don't let the deadline keep moving out further and further each time. Some artists do this also. Ultimately it's between you and the artist you select.
This isn't the first time he's been this rude to a commissioner, I've seen it before. I'm sorry you had to go through this. He has a bad attitude problem that will never go away. Nice to see you took the mature approach to things. :)
Iksar bro, no homo unless you do that thing with your tail again. You know I can't resist that...
And for the most part, the 3 month mark is more or less when you want an update on the status of the work, no? Like to know it's being worked on, understanding the current state of your comission?
That makes it a loan.
Several "artists" have been gaining reputation for taking pre-payments, then never doing the work. Others have reputation of taking money, then refunding months later, on a constant basis. This is shady. I believe artists want to be reimbursed for their work, rather than get dicked around, I'm merely the same way. Why should I give someone I don't even know, my money and let them use it how ever they want for more than 3 months, and give them the option to just give it back when they don't need it anymore? I'm not payday loan agency and I'm not a charity. Even if I was I'm fairly certain a number of the people doing this shit, would fail to meet the minimum criteria to be able to make the loan to begin with.
I don't think I should need to do a full credit score on every artist I want to commission. And the artist beware sites are still not all that "easy" to find the information one is looking for when they want to hire an artist.
Prepaying for a commission and getting the finished product isn't a loan. It's just a risk, until the project is done.
So there's a lesson to be learned here for other artists-
1. Do not dodge contact. Ever. If you are going to list something as a means of contact, CHECK IT. Seriously, commissioners can be very patient so long as you keep in contact with them.
2. You do have the right to cancel a commission and issue a refund, but do not lie about it. This is the time where you've got to (wo)man up and state why you are canceling the commission or do not give a reason at all. If you do not have a clause in your ToS that states you are free to issue a refund at any time without explanation, now's a good time to put it.
3. Refund immediately. Jesus. You should not be spending payments that you have not done the work for. Period. Yes, times are tough blah blah blah bills, etc. but you are still running a business.
4. Whatever the hell that submission is, don't do that. Really, don't. Whether or not the commissioner rubbed you the wrong way, this is not the way to do it. You'll just end up scaring off more potential customers.
While I don't agree with you attempting to charge him interest, I understand where it is coming from. Then again, I've only ever taken a super long time on a commission once and after that I swore to never let it happen again. :B
I've been messed around a few times myself and I'll advise to avoid Gunmouth if you can.
Really didn't expect something like this from him.