I'm not sure if this is as bad or worse than Street Fighter x Tekken's 12/14 complete characters on disc and pay2win gems.

Nowhere near as bad as CAPitalist COMmunism. A fighting game is BUILT around its cast, and having THAT many characters and content locked away is basically making you pay full price for half a game. And also insisting on a broken game mechanic "that tournament players will want to use."

They have no idea.

And what game mechanic is that?

The gems. They wouldn't be so bad if it were MSH style (you actually had to physically pick up the gems as well as activate them) and you could easily turn them off. But here, not only are they given straight up, but they're activated very easily. The real problem is that getting the best gems has NOTHING to do with your skills as a player and everything to do with the size of your wallet.

Do you pay attention to the fighting game community at all?

Gems are not breaking the game. Currently though, most tournaments such as Wednesday Night Fights and my local Xanadu are banning gems anyway (no idea why. Really we should just use the preset ones and keep it simple).

And the Gems that you pay for are better, sure, but they aren't breaking the game or making it so that scrubby players are beating High Level players.

I do, but unfortunately as my circle of friends don't really play fighting games much (and the few that do never want to play the games I like) coupled with having Comcast as an ISP means I'm constantly getting dropped matches I don't get to play against other people very often. I've thought about joining communities such as SRK but since I never get to play against real people I figured "what's the point?"

It's not the gems themselves that are the problem whether or not they are, in fact, broken (MSH is one of my favorite games of all-time and I think the Gems in that game add to its fun, Pocket Fighter is another game with Gems that modify your fighting ability in a fun way), it's the fact they are being pushed as a viable, if not outright necessary, game mechanic but you have to pay extra for them...in a competitive genre, no less.

Everyone's been focusing on the characters that are held for ransom...did anyone check to see if there are more (and potentially broken beyond argument) Gems that are being held back? A Gem for Extended Pandora? A Gem that gives you 4 or even 5 bars of Cross Meter? Or how about RESURRECTION! Between allowing people to buy Gill for all modes of play in 3SO and MvC3's Phoenix (nuff said), I wouldn't put it past them.

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting but I'm just really disappointed in what Capcom has become...it used to be my dream to work for them and make games for them but now...ugh...

You should still join places like SRK. There's gotta be at least /one/ person in your area, or within driving distance, that you could play with.

They are being pushed, yes. And that may be true for casual players. But tournies are going to ban DLC gems without a thought.

I'm pretty sure Capcom has been stressing from day one that gems aren't going to break the game. So I don't really see them releasing Gems like that. Gill? Banned in tournaments. Phoenix? Nerfed by the game tweaks and her own tweaks, we barely even see her now.

Understandable...but Capcom has lied on many occassions before. Most recently swearing that Super was the last edition of SF4 we would get. Then they released Arcade Edition. With ANOTHER Ryu and ANOTHER Akuma (YO DAWG, I HERD U LIEK SHOTOS). :p

I do have friends that are on SRK but even when distance isn't the issue it's timing since my job is first shift and by the time everyone else is free I'm having to get to sleep. >_< There are some places I could go (I think University of Pennsylvania is a big spot around here) but it's way too much trouble and gas for simply playing a game.

And yeah...Gill is banned tournaments...but that doesn't stop people from picking him online. My VERY first online match was someone spamming Gill in back on the original XBox release of SF: Anniversary. One of the reasons I don't play online much (even when my ISP feels like cooperating) is because of shit like that. I used to play a lot of GGPO until Comcast made it impossible to link to any players and that was the shit.

And as I didn't waste money on Ultimate MvC3 I haven't had the pleasure of seeing Phoenix taken down a peg after dealing with so many matches in Vanilla MvC3 of I CAN'T CONTROL IT X-FACTOR DODGE THIS DODGE THIS DODGE THIS DODGE THIS DODGE THIS.

Speaking of...have SSF4:AE and UMvC3 died off now that SFxT is out?

Oh I'm sure we're going to get Super SFxT eventually. They said "No more disc versions of the game." Nothing about a DLC version.

Ah that sucks :C

Playing online is ass. I can't play anything online because I've basically got dial-up. But I've taken both Mahvel and AE to a friends house and played there. Both were terrible experiences, and he's got a good connection. The worst thing about a fighting game is not being able to react to what your opponent is doing. And that's what online is, all the time.

If you like playing Mahvel, you should really pick up a copy of Ultimate. Used or not (get it used). Zero is the only character that just feels like AAAAAA when you fight him, but finding a good Zero online is a chore. Now you just have to watch out for Doom's FOOT-FOOT DIVE.

AE is dead because everyone's moved on to Stekken. Which is a better version of AE with Tekken characters and an ugly paint job.
Mahvel isn't dead because it's god damn MAHVEL.

lol Capcom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ha.....eature=related

I was right....5 gem slots.

A shame, though...I've always hated Tekken and Tekken's cast...but Capcom did do a fairly decent job of giving them some semblance of personality...even if the bulk of them are annoying.

What is this 5 slot nonsense?

Step 1 of Operation: Let Scrubs win.

Step 2 will be those broken gems that I feared from the beginning.

Step 3 ??????

And obviously, Step 4

PROFIT

What the hell was the 600 MB I downloaded then D:

Spyware.

Hats

http://dash.ponychan.net/chan/files.....2643299281.jpg

This. So much.

Wow, that is un-fucking-acceptable, Bioware. I want my virginity back.

Of course it won't stop. If it's content they charge for during or soon after release and it's not on a whole disk of its own for a computer game, it probably is already coded onto what you've installed. It's called extra easy money with the work already done. Same thing with console games as well. It's one thing if it's free or a whole year after a release. It's another if it's right away after the initial release and decidedly not free.

capcom did the same thig with street fighter x tekken on the PSVita version you get like 12 extra characters that you can also get on PS3 and Xbox 360 but it's DLC, BUT its already on the disc http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt.....com-angry-rant

Ok so let me get this straight...just because they had a DLC that you didn't want to buy is on the disc (and can only be in the game through hacking the archieves or whatever), and everyones going to go ranting about a DLC that YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY OR DON'T CARE ABOUT, and that's gonna stop someone from....you know what..no....I'm not gonna even bother

Imagine buying a car, then paying extra in order to use any gear above first -- even though the gear mechanism is already in the car. Whether or not you want to use those gears is besides the point. The point is you're paying more for something you already ostensibly own.

I think it's more like that your car has ready connection port, and needed power and audio cables to install CD/MP3 player alongside your radio. There's been preparation so that you can install the unit after bought if you wish, or have the car already with the unit when you purchase it, but it is up to you.

OOoooOOOOOooo BUSTEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

>still thinking bioware hasn't been completely corrupted by EA and is milking the money out of their blind fans like there's no tomorrow
>2012

huehue

It's not going to stop 'til you wise up?

DLC already on disk is actually pretty good thing since it means that you don't need to pay for it since you can get it in the game through hacking. Just learn to hack and wait before you buy the DLC since if it appears to be already on the disc, it won't take long before there's a shitstorm raging about it on the Internet and someone will always post the guide how to hack your game in order to get it in the game. Of course don't buy the DLC if you can get it in the game through hacking.

First they need to hack the majority of the missing content of the DLC into the disk.

#BlackMarch

Just sayin'

*"Just saying" as in a way to tell you "I told you so. Companies are no longer in for making good games/movies/books experiences, but to squeeze the money out of you. It's your fault now if you made an impulsive buy on day #1 and then you come bitching about this kind of bullcrap. Anonymous said ZERO earnings to them, but you said NO I WANT MAH VIDYA HURR. Well, back at you if you feel betrayed now."

From Ashes was developed after the actual work on the main game was finished, but before the release - my friend working as one of the cinematic designers didn't get to work on the DLC until before they finished work with the game. There is code related to the DLC in the main game, but the whole DLC is not included in the disk. In digital edition From Ashes DLC was over half gig chunk you had to download.

But enough of the facts. In my opinion if he would been considered in the very beginning to be both permanent member of your team and also heavily tied to the storyline, it would been so much better. But as optional DLC, it's alright. Beats the crap out of Zaeed and Kasumi, who can't pretty much be interacted outside their meeting and story quest except spam some story out of them in their rooms.

guess your not complaining about SFxT dlc characters on disc because its just accepted practice of capcom >> i didnt buy ME3 because of this though and won't either.

No that's ass too, but not as relevant to the general populous as ME3

yea i mean bioware always been good about not dicking us around, seems EA is rubbing off on them... but as total biscuit said untill gamers unit and together as a group STOP BUYING games pull this crap it will never stop. To each and every person that has bought ME3 you basically just told BW and EA it's ok to dick us around.

You don't have to buy the dlc you know. I haven't picked up the game yet, but I can easily just buy the game and then simply not buy the DLC. Doesn't seem that hard really...

Especially considering that most people that spout this "I'm not supporting this company anymore!" crap are usually just lying their asses off and just buy it anyway. They claim to support what you're saying (I.E. - Not buying into this on disc stuff) and then just go buy their Mass Effect's or Call Of Duty's or whatever.

Guess what I'm saying is that I'm not going to miss out on a potentially great game just because of things I don't need to buy.

if you buy the game your supporting there business practices of day 1 dlc even if you dont buy the dlc... your giving them your money. Giving them cash and supporting there shitty business practices if you REFUSE to buy game at all your denying them ANY revenue at all, your making a statement in one motion.

Do you think bioware would keep doing this crap if 60-75% of there ME player base refused to buy the game because of that day 1 dlc? the sales would PLUMMET would take a MASSIVE loss on it and, would actually go " hey why didnt you guys buy it we know you love our games! " and we'd go " because your shitty day 1 dlc and removing content from games or locking whats on the disc...stop it!" then shit would change!

as long as you support companys do this will KEEP on doing it! goes for capcom and there ultra and super titles -.-;

untill gamers wise up and realize that we have power to stop all this crap by using the ultimate tool of all...NOT buying there game!

If you buy the game, you're supporting the development of the game, not the business practice of day 1 DLC.

You're right. BioWare probably would re-think their DLC strategy if the Mass Effect player base refused to buy the game because of the Day 1 DLC. But they player base didn't do that. They bought it. Criticism of the practice may be loud and boisterous, but support for the practice is vocally silent while financially loud. Mass Effect 3 shipped over 3 million copies worldwide in week 1. I don't know the numbers for the DLC, but I don't particularly care. I bought the Collector's Edition, so I got it Gratis. And I would do it again, if given the opportunity to change my decision.

So if the majority of Mass Effect gamers buy into the purchase of the DLC strategy, then BioWare and EA both are doing exactly what the fans want. The fans are speaking with their buying power. Those that disagree are free to do so, and that's their loss. But they're not significant enough to warrant a change in business practice. The current one is likely the most profitable, and as such it will continue to be used.

actually not that they like it more that they want to play the game bad enough or have just accept that they are getting screwed over and dont realize can change it. But your right are enough bought game that nothing will change... but doesnt mean i will ever support a company that does it in fact i have made it a point to try and avoid buying any game that does this kind of crap.

As someone has bought EVERY bioware title ever released since BG1, and pretty much a die hard bioware fan and i can tell you i wont be buying any more bioware games if this is practices they are going to start using... good game or not i refuse to support it.

Then you know full well the caliber of game that BioWare produces is so great that you cannot possibly come out a winner with that attitude.

As someone that has purchased every BioWare title since Jade Empire and shall continue to do so.

eh not gonna sit here and debate it =P i'm just gonna agree to disagree and not buy ME3 or any game chooses to shit on its player base like this.

Except you're not being shit on.

You do realise every Bioware PC game starting from Mass Effect had contained day 1 DLC. Mass Effect 1 had Bring Down The Sky, Dragon Age had Warden's Keep, ME2 had Zaed, Dragon Age 2 had Exiled Prince and ME2 has From Ashes. I don't see any difference what they've done with this new one. I guess it's just cool to hate Bioware after /v/ said it's OK to hate them after rushed DA2.

Thank you and gothicskunk for pointing this kind of stuff out. I really was hoping not to have to be considered an "EA Apologist/Fanboy" this time just for pointing out the obvious.

Bravo.

ME1: bring down sky cost nothing

Dragon Age 1: Yes it had 2 day 1 dlcs actually, stone prisoner(which ended up being free) and Wardens keep, neither of which was vital or important to over all story was STILL shitty for them to do. Guess what? i didnt buy wardens keep and still won't plain and simple had i known was the case with DA1 i wouldnt have bought it either.

Dragon Age 2: lol people bought this? was a steaming pile of crap delivered for shmucks who dont think before buying. It was terrible... i didnt buy it and was first BW game i didnt buy because i knew as soon as they said " no other races but human" i'd not enjoy it. Turns out nobody else did either got terrible reviews and is regarded as worst bioware game ever made i dont think i need to elaborate on that anymore then i have.

ME2: again Zaed wasn't vital, and in fact i believe some of pre-orders ended up getting him free i know i have him, and i never paid a dime for him. In fact i didnt buy into whole " HEY LOOK NEW COMPANION" syndrome in ME2. Wasn't really my thing... none of bonus characters interested me and again most of these are IN THE CODE! so people bought these are suckers...

ME3: we have been over this one already.

Seriously...just gonna leave this link and have someone " famous " explain why it is bad idea. Also is a completely subjective argument some people are ok with paying for day 1 dlc, others are not i'm not ok with it. At end of the day its my money and if i don't feel that it is worth price put on it, then they aren't getting my money. Said it once i'll say it again it is a terrible practice that lots and lots of gamers are telling developers it is ok! how would you like to buy a car go to turn on radio and a credit card device pops out and says " lawl 200 dollars please for access to a standard feature!" because thats what we are talking about. This stuff is mad DURING the production of the game, its content was planned to be part of the game to start with then CUT into bits and sold seperatly to MILK the consumers. I don't support that practice and never will end of story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0v.....ure=plpp_video

TB will explain it from his perspective and he can probably do it far more intelligently then i will. Personally not gonna sit her and flood this journal with arguments so this is it no more posts =P

Mass Effect 1 had optional day 1 DLC that you can acquire, or not, up to you. Bring down the sky does cost 400 MP on X360. It was offered free for PC customers for them having to wait year.

Dragon Age 1 had optional day 1 DLC that you can acquire, or not, up to you. They had a price, they added in to the game but game was fine without them.

Mass Effect 2 had optional day 1 DLC that you can acquire, or not, up to you. There is/was ways to acquire him for free, but he comes along with the cerberus network, which you have to pay 10 dollars if you grabbed the game used.

Dragon Age 2 had optional day 1 DLC that you can acquire, or not, up to you. I can't take your response seriously about DA2 because you don't have any clue how the game is like. I do consider it perhaps the worst Bioware Game content wise, because it was rushed sequel and the game areas were heavily recycled, but the story, characters and mood on the game were pretty solid, as was the fighting too.

Mass Effect 3 had optional day 1 DLC that you can acquire, or not, up to you. You can probably see where I'm going on with this?

Also I did watch that video way earlier and while the guy had some good, valid points there, it was still speculation and basing opinions on incorrect facts too. He bases his argument on what he wishes the character involved in the DLC to be in his ideal game, but about the actual addon he has nothing to base this on. I completed the game and DLC, and I said that it was the best character DLC so far from Bioware (Previous ones being Shane (DA1), Zaeed(ME2), Kasumi(ME2) and Prince (DA2). I can't literally wrap my head how finetoning, improving and adding to the DLC makes them worse.

I think it's cool that you oppose the idea of developers making downloadable content for the games. I kinda miss physical expansion discs myself - but it's still pretty fucking stupid reason to not buy the game itself, especially if you're fan of the series. So yeah, it's your money man, up to you if you wanna play a good game or not.

Character model and general level responses are included in the game. Same was case with Zaeed and Kasumi on the second game. You can hack them in your team without the DLC and they comment during the missions (some might use placeholder models and/or animations), but everything else is missing - individual conversation, cutscenes, quest missions etc.

I dunno. Look at it from their perspective. They want to make money. I mean they want to make donations.

Ignorance is bliss

lol. programmers today, think gamers are stupid, i'm sure they'll learn their lesson after this

I dunno. The author's already bought the game and the DLC on top of it, and then goes to tell people they shouldn't like it. lol.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again; Whenever EA's logo gets slapped on a series I like, it all goes down hill.

The problem seems to be that EA isn't interested in making games. They're interested in making money. Maybe that's what appeals to the people fronting the money for the game development; that EA makes a good return for their investment. So some creative developer gets stuck working with EA who tweaks things in the interest of profit.

Not that I know that from sure, that's just all assumption from face value observation. But at the very least, EA seems to be bad news.

for sure*

The 626 megabyte download I had to endure to get the From Ashes DLC for my 260 copy of Mass Effect 3 proves that what the guy in Forbes is writing is bogus. The DLC was not already on the disc, and was not simply unlocked by use of the code.

*360

Not that I'm saying the DLC was already included on the core game disc, but it's entirely possible for them to have you download the DLC that you already have. Especially if EA and Bioware thought consumers might be suspicious if they didn't have to download the DLC to use it. Again, I'm not saying that proves anything, I'm just saying it doesn't really prove that they didn't either.

And by that, you also mean to imply intentional deception on the part of BioWare and/or EA. Or at least, that it 'could be possible.'

So I pose this: Assuming your suggestion is accurate, and the DLC was in fact already on the disk, then,

a) What purpose does downloading it a second time serve me, other than to waste my time?

b) Why fill up the disc with data that the customer is just going to download anyway, if they've purchased the From Ashes DLC?

c) Explain to me, when I look through my XBox 360 memory storage menu, what this 626 megabyte Game Add-On called 'From Ashes' is under the Mass Effect game?

I think you hope to find corporate customer manipulation where none actually exists.

I DO hope to find corporate customer manipulation. I don't like EA, so any scandal involving them would make my day.

You are right though, it seems a bit far fetched that EA or Bioware would make you download such a large file for a fares. Especially when they could just cut the content out instead. Not that I'm saying they did. Maybe there is evidence of the DLC on the discs, but it is for a different reason entirely.

And when you do not find any? What then will you do? Insist that there's some conspiracy afoot and that we're all being manipulated into thinking there isn't?

Character model and general level responses for the DLC character are part of the main game, but his specific dialogues, cutscenes, quests and other stuff aren't.

Considering typical Gammign Pratice to this day since Fable 3 and CoD: Black Ops is that they find a glitch and Send a patch on launch day, it could very well jsut mean that they were patching a Bunch of Crap on the game on Day one, THEN some and you have the DLC on disk, and part of the Patch was to 'Lock' that POrtion of the game off. There's jsut alot of possiblities with what They did and what Others found out, Fact remains that something that would've been a better business move could be a simple mention BEFORE game release, or least during the Demo Dropping of the game could be just that.. Well Ohhhh I don't know... Leaving mention that with the Collectors Edition or with the added payment of 'Suchandsuch' You can get So and some for your Story...

A Nice mention of that... Hell even with the Added cost of the game, it's a softer blow then Blind sided 'BTW Pay me now and we'll fix more Story for ya. :D'... On disk or not, Just Let fans know that your gonna ahve stuff like that so that they can plan out buying the game, Buying the DLC or neither or Both.

I could understand on-disc extras you have to pay to use if the game itself cost less at retail. Publishers load up on DLC these days because their cut of the retail purchase isn't huge, and they get heavily undercut by used game resales. SFxT is still a perfect example of how NOT to do it, but the practice itself isn't inherently bad.

The actual DLC on this case isn't included on the disc. Only certain files to prevent levels from crashing when they load up the response dialogue related to them.

If that's true, then what's the problem?

The problem is tech savvy fans--most with an ax to grind--capable of reverse engineering game files are seeing content related to From Ashes in the core game (physical disc for the consoles, game files for the PC version) and are jumping to conclusions that the DLC already exists as part of the core game play experience, and that BioWare/EA is hosing them for the $10 DLC.

And damn the evidence that proves them wrong.

People jumping to conclusions? Naaaaah, that never happens!

Especially on the internet! Who would do such a thing?

Tell you all right now: Only reason I haven't picked up ME3 yet is because I have to get a PS3 save file ready to go from ME2. I had one for my 360 but, well, my eleventh one died and is now officially out of warranty.

But that is a story for another time...

This journal's soundtrack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzlgJ-SfKYE

Considering all the Massive 'Best Buy/Target/Wal-mart/GAmestop' Preown here to get Crap that is hitting out, ON-Disk DLC has jsut NOW been explored as a problem cause... Well someone finially decided to peg a company on there 'Pratices' and CAPCOM was an easy target. The later and comming on and going isn't gonna change too much till it's possible that no one is gonna 'Pay' for thoes games in That condition. We're just gonna be going through a Gamming Depression jsut as well as Finicial one for the US.