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Get Your Reality Out of my Fantasy!
13 years ago
I know this has been going on for as long as homo-sapiens has been drawing and writing, but lately I've been seeing a ton of it, and feel compelled to comment:
What the fuck is it with people *insisting* on trying to apply "reality" and "facts" to stuff that's fantasy (ie, not fucking *real*)?
And we're not talking people questioning why something isn't particularly realistic, we're talking demanding/insisting that it be changed, nagging/bitching about it endlessly; the people who get completely bent out of shape about "realistic anatomy", who get indignant that something doesn't match what they know about physics/aerodynamics/some other branch of science, who get flustered that the bit of technology referenced doesn't match their encyclopedic knowledge based on video-games and Wikipedia.
I literally had someone at one point railing at me because I was drawing "human-female" female hyenas (ie, no pseudo-penis/not herm/not transgender), and told me flat out that if I wasn't going to draw them "right", I should just not draw them at all.
Watching a stream the other night and someone droned on and on about how the dragon in the image wouldn't stand a chance because, well, armor-piercing bullets!
People commenting on how the comic-book style image of the muscular cat-babe with huge handguns is incorrect because the recoil should be flipping them up and she wouldn't be able to hit anything shooting like that ...
fantasy, phantasy [ˈfæntəsɪ]
n pl -sies
1. imagination unrestricted by reality
It's a pretty simple concept, I mean really, the explanation only takes four words, and they aren't even long words; what the artist/writer saw in his/her head doesn't have to have *anything* to do with reality. Nada, bubkis, nothing, nil, zero. The drawing of the hyena-girl does not *have* to have a wang! The dragon can take on the Yamato, and WIN! The cat-girl can fire deck-guns, offhand, while applying her make-up, killing 20,000 ninjas at once (or pirates, I don't take sides).
Or not.
It's all up to the person creating the vision, up to their imagination.
If you don't agree with it you can ... well ... use your own imagination!
What the fuck is it with people *insisting* on trying to apply "reality" and "facts" to stuff that's fantasy (ie, not fucking *real*)?
And we're not talking people questioning why something isn't particularly realistic, we're talking demanding/insisting that it be changed, nagging/bitching about it endlessly; the people who get completely bent out of shape about "realistic anatomy", who get indignant that something doesn't match what they know about physics/aerodynamics/some other branch of science, who get flustered that the bit of technology referenced doesn't match their encyclopedic knowledge based on video-games and Wikipedia.
I literally had someone at one point railing at me because I was drawing "human-female" female hyenas (ie, no pseudo-penis/not herm/not transgender), and told me flat out that if I wasn't going to draw them "right", I should just not draw them at all.
Watching a stream the other night and someone droned on and on about how the dragon in the image wouldn't stand a chance because, well, armor-piercing bullets!
People commenting on how the comic-book style image of the muscular cat-babe with huge handguns is incorrect because the recoil should be flipping them up and she wouldn't be able to hit anything shooting like that ...
fantasy, phantasy [ˈfæntəsɪ]
n pl -sies
1. imagination unrestricted by reality
It's a pretty simple concept, I mean really, the explanation only takes four words, and they aren't even long words; what the artist/writer saw in his/her head doesn't have to have *anything* to do with reality. Nada, bubkis, nothing, nil, zero. The drawing of the hyena-girl does not *have* to have a wang! The dragon can take on the Yamato, and WIN! The cat-girl can fire deck-guns, offhand, while applying her make-up, killing 20,000 ninjas at once (or pirates, I don't take sides).
Or not.
It's all up to the person creating the vision, up to their imagination.
If you don't agree with it you can ... well ... use your own imagination!
Well anyway, good luck with all of your endeavors.
Draw what you want, man, Screw those who are trapped in their pre-conceived notions.
I hate having to tell people to keep negative/opinionated commentary like that to themselves as I like to get into discussions. But I loathe the people who try to insert their dogma into my fantasy. :\
A lot of it really seems to do with entitlement and selfishness, people making this assumption that they should get what they want, simply because they want it. That their desires completely outweigh anyone else's under all circumstances.
There was a great example in a stream i was watching where the artist was drawing a busty character, and people were commenting on it approvingly, sometimes jokingly, but someone had to pipe up, repeatedly, that they "didn't like boobs".
How was that pertinent? It had nothing to do with what was going on, it was just a shallow effort to say "I don't like this, I wish you'd draw something else." without having the balls to actually *say* it; passive-aggressive bullshit because they *know* if they flatly tell the artist they want them to draw something else, they'll get shouted down. So they hide behind behind stating their unsolicited opinion, because they can take the high-ground of having a right to their own opinion if someone tells them to stop.
I just generally tell people to take that nonsense elsewhere in my stream. Hate doing it, but I'm not going to let someone else kill my buzz because I'm not giving away my time for free.
My reaction, had I seen the repetition first-hand: "Well, then I guess you don't like yourself."
Followed closely by "Unless you're paying for it, this ain't Burger King. You don't get it 'your way, right away'."
In my more flippant moments, I tend to blame it on "Web 2.0" making people think that everyone must know what they're doing/thinking.
Also, Ninja Pirates.
So, anyway, very true. <3
Would be nice if even half of those dumb-asses could actually draw or write themselves and show us heathens "how it should be done".
Sometimes, there is a legitimate constructive criticism. Actually useful. But if it's coached in a snide, know-it-all comment, it's more likely to be seen as a personal attack than something constructive. Too many "You Did That WRONG!" comments, instead of "It might work better if..." comments.
Enjoy the picture. Suggest, don't demand (unless it's a commission for you). And have an open mind, for goodness sake.
"A lot of it really seems to do with entitlement and selfishness, people making this assumption that they should get what they want, simply because they want it. That their desires completely outweigh anyone else's under all circumstances.
There was a great example in a stream i was watching where the artist was drawing a busty character, and people were commenting on it approvingly, sometimes jokingly, but someone had to pipe up, repeatedly, that they "didn't like boobs".
How was that pertinent? It had nothing to do with what was going on, it was just a shallow effort to say "I don't like this, I wish you'd draw something else." without having the balls to actually *say* it; passive-aggressive bullshit because they *know* if they flatly tell the artist they want them to draw something else, they'll get shouted down. So they hide behind stating their unsolicited opinion, because they can take the high-ground of having a right to their own opinion if someone tells them to stop."
I hardly would like that shit to happen in real life and I doubt anyone really would. It's cool as a fantasy, it's make believe, no one gets hurt, but bringing reality into fetishes like this are just retarded.
Same for people who really go out of their way to explain things in movies.
Like I remember seeing someone review Alien once, complaining it was shit because it was "unrealistic" that the alien didn't ingest enough material to be able to grow to that size so "it was bullshit" and anyone who likes it "is clearly too stupid to realise this". No, not stupid, just don't give a flying fuck, it's a movie about a cool looking alien being scary and chewing on people. It would be so much less impressive if I knew how it's body worked.
Movies is always a difficult subject: different people look for different things in a movie and what one person wants may be well different from what the next wants. But trying to enforce "realism" onto fantasy (and this includes science-fiction) remains pointless; how can you claim the aliens didn't ingest enough to grow that large? Do you know anything about their biology? Were you watching them all the time? What exactly *did* they eat? Making claims against *entirely* fictional creatures/places/technologies is utterly ludicrous *because* they're entirely fictional; accepting their existence in the first place for the purpose of the fiction pretty much requires you accepting whatever fictions are associated with their existence. If you don't like it, you'll have to either come up with your own fiction (besides, which is more creative/inspired; proving that something doesn't work, or figuring out some way to make it work?)
And I have *no* respect for anyone using the "you're too stupid to understand" argument: it's the last resort of the cowardly and weak. It's the response of someone who is them-self too stupid, because they aren't informed enough or intelligent enough to defend their position, so their only resort is to simply dismiss the other side of the argument as "stupid".
You're very annoyed about this, aren't ya?
Double bullcrap when it comes to art.
If someone wants to drive and draw things a certain way, then they can pay someone to do it or they can draw it themselves. And the first step toward a more healthy outlook is keeping their self-centered commentary to themselves.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4054167/
He based this off EverQuest Gnomes and Dwarves.. because their gnomes are stick like mini-people... yea, don't walk into my page and tell me what is what!
So when did he recover from deservedly being kicked in the nads?
"I'm Arguing on the Internet."
"I'm Arguing on the Internet."
"I'm Arguing on the Internet."
That usually cures me of any desire to further waste my time.
B: The wrench would eventually break.
C: You assume this is even possible...
Here is a drink for at least trying an being positive.
Bitches be triflin'.
But I find it simply HILARIOUS when people try and argue reality about things like fucking DRAGONS! There is LITERALLY no base facts that can be used to build an argument. Dragons are PURE fiction and yet they want to argue that "that's wrong" or "that should be this way". It's just mind numbing because there IS NO WAY IT SHOULD BE!
And then there's Eastern Vs Western.. etc.
Its like, what part of "anthropamorphic did you misunderstand about this fandom?
Why those are clearly inertially dampened recoiless fifty cals!! I mean really! It's so obvious!!
2. she's a damn good cop
ther'es a reaosn why people draw this stuff in fantasy,because relality is boring,if we were to dos otmhign abse don relaity we probabaly wouldn't friggen be in the fandomt o begin with so there,techncially the concept of an anthro is unrealistic as far as I know,but look where ya are = . if that ain't enough to explain that realism don't mean shit then I don't know what. lol
another thing I find hilairous is in VIDEOGAMES people say "that's unrealistic" it's a friggen game man,we play em to temporarally escape from reality lol
I've had some folks critisize me about some characters of mine as well about realism
I say keep up with wha tyou doing and draw what ya wanna draw,I'm with you 200 percent that ay not sound realistic but I don't give a flyin' fry about it =3
but what I was trying to say we draw/write a certain wy tha'ts mostlybased off fantasy because reality is boring
I've seen and heard ranting but hot damn that was crazy...
my eyes bleed a bit and thus I could not view the picture anymore *is blinded by ranting*
Hopefully it doesn't eat at ya too much but I feel your frustration. >~<;;
I evan rememberd one person talking about how weird itwas for reptiles to have breasts, um hello? "Anthropomorphism" and besides there is such thing as males with female genitelia. so for sake of avoiding confusion and to make the Female reptiles have breasts is workable for me.
and speaking of godzilla, Realmism is what made the 1998 Godzilla Movie suck for the Godzilla Fans. because Zilla couldn't breath an an atomic-ray, and he was killed by missles. Godzilla's breath weapon and durability is a trademark. in conclusion to that, Spider man shoots webs, godzilla shoots fire or atomic ray.
and while we have new scientiific evidence on dinosaurs. we sghouldn't let that spoil the fun of Jurassic Park.
Oh, and I was going to send you the link but i'll just put here if you want to see it.. LOL.. after the thunder storm interrupted/ended your stream early I added a background to the Yolanda pic I colored, I really did not like that boring grey that was there earlier and some might call what I did cheesie but I think its cute so here is the link if you want to see it... http://einom.furaffinity.net/view/8089529/
People, really. Anthro animals make NO sense anyway. There's no need to deconstruct everything.
As a matter of personal policy, I'm going to start derailing such nitpicks into (intentionally!) uber-pedantic arguments about what is/isn't scientifically plausible in Star Trek. :V
And yours, by the way :D
I think talking about genitals on anthro animals is doomed to be an unusually pointless discussion. Gah! Realistically would a bipedal (whatever) have a penis with a recognizable head? Or for that matter boy or girl bits that look like animal bits? The much beloved sheath is pretty pointless when you're talking about people who need to pee human-fashion. And only then do we start talking about hyena bits. Let's say you go with spotted hyena anthros having a pseudopenis - yeah, well the birth canal no longer does a U-turn and that means no deaths in childbirth... doesn't that really change any society they'd have from what we know about spotted hyenas? Oy, a headache. I think I'd rather go with "girls with standard issue genitalia and big butts are pretty" right up to the time someone pays me to draw hyena girls with pseudowangs.
[character critiquing a cartoonist in a Rich Larson fanzine comic strip]
(found it!)
Honestly, this kind of "must adhere to blah blah blah" is fine when it's your own fantasy, or if you prefer there to be realism inside fantasy, or the attempts for it. It's completely rude to get all up in someone's face about it and demand changes. If you think something is silly and impossible, and that ruins your enjoyment of it... well that's your loss. There's no need to get up in someone's business over what, really, is no business of yours.
It's kinda the space treaded between Camp and Suspension of disbelief. Kind of "to each there own" in some regards.
You're always a jackass for ruining someone's harmless fun though.
And does anyone else remember the insanely long debate of web forums when D&D was coming out with fourth edition? It was about whether or not the Anthro Dragon race's females should or shouldn't have breasts!
The people you're talking about, however, go way beyond that. Realism, in art and fiction is not an axiomatically desirable thing; it depends entirely on the genre, the context, and what the artist/author is aiming at. Not to mention, of course, that much of the "realism" that these people are clamoring for is just misconceptions that they've grown used to.
Or their own personal preferences masquerading as a convenient "fact".
Have
That's the only real explanation.
But seriously, my take on it is that for these people, if you're not applying things in way that fits their own specific imagination, then they can't enjoy it. And since NO ONE applies idea exactly like someone ELSE'S imagination, they like certain art, but can't ENJOY it. This causes them to flail at the artists, trying to force them to draw what they're seeing in their own minds eye... which of course is impossible.
And as you mentioned, since they're studied these things in depth (mostly in their heads and online), then they're the consummate expert with those things, and you should listen to them immediately. That you don't means you have no skill, imagination or right to be an artist at all. ...Because they're not able to use you to express what they're seeing in their own heads.
That's not to say that some folks don't overdo the 'reality' thing. I suspect that if you strip away a psychological layer or two, 'accuracy' turns out to be 'personal preference.'
"That's not to say that some folks don't overdo the 'reality' thing. I suspect that if you strip away a psychological layer or two, 'accuracy' turns out to be 'personal preference.' "
I must agree with you there in a lot of instances.
People are just crazy.
Now if something of fantasy was in a series, and then someone came along and screwed the whole the up -cough-New Devil May Cry-cough- then people would have a right to bitch.
I'm never sure if they're trying to be annoying, or are just genuinely stupid enough to believe that their view of the way things should work has any validity whatsoever.
What you're dealing with here isn't people just failing to suspend their disbelief, it's infinitesimal nit-pickiness of whatever the 'issue' is. This is why it seems so silly to get bent out of shape over someone lacking part of their 'red underwear' costume when he's an alien from a dead world who just happens to look human and get super powers from a yellow sun. Really, yes, that's silly, but it would be just as silly even if he was just Clark Kent; coffee guy at Kinko's.
Really, the only problem you describe is just people being pushy, lacking tact and outright demanding things change for their own tastes. If you engage their gripes as an argument, you shift focus as if it was a gripe that needs addressing. You legitimize their whining. Don't do that!
We need questioning of fictitious things, questioning of if someone works, even within our own mythos, just to avoid stuff being meaningless and childish. We need to still apply patterns we understand, and a little dash of realism, if done right, can make a world of difference. It's what makes mute space battles in Battlestar Gallactica all the more haunting, and what makes Wesley reversing the polarity to set up a phase field to solve Data's problem all the more grating.
After all, if the argument 'it's just the creators imagination, you have no right to judge' was 100% valid... wouldn't that mean The Phantom Menace was good?
It's not just leaving all what's good or bad in a pic to the excuse of the creators imagination we're talking about here, it's understanding the setting, context and intent of the art in question. Phantom Menace for instance, had standards it needed to live up to and it failed at meeting those standards. Badly!
What I think might be a clue on part of what caused this is that I've noticed in particular that drawings of guns tend to get a LOT of harsh criticism on a very unforgiving and at times seriously condescending level and frankly that can be very annoying, ESPECIALLY when setting, context and intent (in addition to artistic license or detail/distance) are outright ignored for the sake of being "correct" about the weaponry. For those of us that like to just cut thru the bullshit, calling folks out on that kind of tactlessness ain't a bad thing. They just need to go and chill out.
In the end, Wolfkidd suggested to use your own imagination, not "you have no right to judge".
:)
*BWOING!*
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."
I'll see your four simple words and raise you to three: Suspension Of Disbelief. It is our friend.
They are made to look human w/ Animal features. Right?
That's the defintion nowdays right?
.. So yeah, Animal bits n whatnot is your fetish. Not a requirement. XD
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uY86FXaN7.....g+offended.jpg
That said! ~ I'll admit, my personal taste gravitates more towards realism. For example, there comes a point when a human bodyshape just becomes unappealing to me. Example, Massive world-sized boobs or balls on a 5 foot character.
And something in my brain just snaps when I see a a 4'3 mouse dual welding caliber .666 Demonic-Desert Eagles with Katina bayonets affixed...
But for the most part, I have a healthy respect for imagination. I've always thought it was pretty rude to start arguing with an artist about the character that they made, for themselves. I think that people tend to forget, that this fandom is supposed to be fun, not an extension of their own reality.