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Getting to Know You, or, Why Mormons and Furries Are Alike
13 years ago
[x-posted from my blog]
Two possibly related things: Mormons and furries.
Okay, so back in 2008 there was this ballot initiative here in California that you might have heard of: Prop 8, to amend the California Constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman. One of the stories surrounding it (and there were many) was the heavy involvement of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, spending money, sending volunteers, and possibly swinging the outcome in a vote that was ultimately decided by two percentage points. In the wake of the election, I and others criticized the church and had a pretty sour feeling toward Mormons in general.
But in the intervening almost-four years, I've met several Mormons (and ex-Mormons), and today, as coincidence would have it, I read this article about the church's softening stance on homosexuality. What stuck out to me is that the people in favor of being both gay and Mormon are not leaving the church, not sitting quietly and letting the elders guide their policies. They're marching. They're talking about it. They aren't protesting violently or acting as though what they're doing is shameful. They're creating groups ("Building Bridges," which makes me retroactively glad I dropped the "Building" from the title of that one book). They are marching--as Mormons--in gay pride parades! Can you imagine a Mormon group trying to march in a gay pride parade in 2009?
Also, I found out something else I didn't know: The church leaders in Utah "supported a 2009 anti-discrimination ordinance in Salt Lake City that protected people on the basis of sexual orientation." So by talking to friends and remaining open, my opinion of Mormons has, dare I say it, evolved. I'm still critical of the church leadership and still think that what they did in California in 2008 was wrong, but I'm much less inclined to say "Mormons are evil."
Also today, I read a journal postregarding the fallout from the criminal behavior of a couple furries at a furry event sponsored by and benefiting a rescue worker group (to which several of the furries belong). Among all the other stuff, I saw a few people saying, "This is why I don't tell my friends I'm a furry."
There's a movement to collect money to make up for the financial fallout, and I think that's great. It certainly will help repair the image of furries. But I think more important than that is the lesson of the gay rights movement(*) and the lesson of the Mormons, above. I think we need to be unashamed of being furries.
(* The furry fandom has a lot in common with the gay community, but I don't want to equate the fight to live equally in a relationship we were born to prefer with the right to have people not make fun of us for liking animal-people. They're different in degree, and I realize that. But at the core of both is the fight to be respected as people no matter how we are born or how we choose to express those feelings we are born with, or how we choose to live our lives as long as we aren't harming others.)
Because:
1. If we act ashamed of it, then the people who don't know anything about it will assume that it's something to be ashamed of. Really. This is a thing. Imagine that you're doing a Google search, and this kinda weird cult-thing comes up that you don't know anything about, and you're like, "hey, wait, I recognize that symbol--my friend has it on her laptop." So you go ask her about it. How would you feel if she replied with:
* "Oh, yeah! It's kind of a fun thing a few of us do. Sorta weird, but I really have fun with it."
* "It's nothing. I only kind of like the symbol. I'm not really that INTO it, not like a lot of OTHER people are. My God, you didn't see that CSI episode, did you?"
If you act like it's no big deal, then your friends will think it is--wait for it--no big deal. If they saw the NJFurBQ thing, and ask you about it, then you just say, "There's like fifty thousand furries in this country. Some of them are bound to be inconsiderate assholes. Me and my friends all donated money to cover the cost of what those idiots did and people are talking about banning them from future furry events." That's it. End of story.
2. If you don't tell people you're a furry, then all they will know is the people who get the publicity. This includes the CSI episode, the NJFurBQ, the panda guy... The lesson of the Mormons, above, is that despite some pretty bad publicity, you can change people's perceptions a little at a time. Yes, you are not going to be written up in the paper for being a guy who does NOT have illegal public sex. But you know what? Your friends know YOU. They don't know that guy in the paper. And associating YOU with the fandom gives them a hell of a lot more reason to have a positive impression of it than the publicity surrounding the few idiots/criminals who surface every so often.
When I mentioned this on Twitter, I got a couple responses that I think merit addressing. One is "I can't come out as a furry at work; I'd lose my job." Well, okay. Personally I think there are far fewer of those situations than people think, but that's not my judgment call. I want to emphasize that I am not saying that you should wear a fursuit to work, or jump up on your desk and shout "I AM A FURRY." I'm saying that if a friend asks you about the con t-shirt, or about your Lion King poster, or why you went to Pittsburgh last weekend and did it have anything to do with that convention thing, that you should not be ashamed to say, "Yeah, I hang out with this fandom that's pretty cool."
The other response was that "the bad apples get all the press and we'll all be tainted by association." That's what I was trying to get across above, that if you're just talking to your friends, well, they know you. They trust you, if you're not a dick (don't be a dick). They don't know that guy in the paper. I'm sure if you reach, you can find an example of an asshole in some group they belong to--churches, sports fans, whatever--to give them an analogy. The best way to say it is "that guy in the paper is an asshole/criminal/idiot, and he'd be an asshole/criminal/idiot no matter what he was into, but because he's a furry, he was an asshole/criminal/idiot in a furry way, and because people don't really know a lot about furries, they assume that that's typical."
And the fandom is doing so many cool things. We give thousands and thousands of dollars to charity every year. We have a vibrant, flourishing artistic and literary community. We cherish and foster creativity and independence and self-expression. We are tolerant to a fault. We are good people. This is a fandom that I am proud to be a part of, and I tell people about the cool things we do ALL THE TIME. When I brought a couple non-furry SF writers to MFF last year, they were thrilled, and they said, "Next year, we're coming back with costumes."
So be proud of your fandom. Be judicious about where you talk about it--don't get fired or disowned or whatever. But give people a chance to hear the good side of the fandom.
And if you hear about people doing shit like at this NJFurBQ--speak up and tell them that's not okay. If you see it happening, stop it. This is your fandom. Take ownership of it.
Two possibly related things: Mormons and furries.
Okay, so back in 2008 there was this ballot initiative here in California that you might have heard of: Prop 8, to amend the California Constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman. One of the stories surrounding it (and there were many) was the heavy involvement of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, spending money, sending volunteers, and possibly swinging the outcome in a vote that was ultimately decided by two percentage points. In the wake of the election, I and others criticized the church and had a pretty sour feeling toward Mormons in general.
But in the intervening almost-four years, I've met several Mormons (and ex-Mormons), and today, as coincidence would have it, I read this article about the church's softening stance on homosexuality. What stuck out to me is that the people in favor of being both gay and Mormon are not leaving the church, not sitting quietly and letting the elders guide their policies. They're marching. They're talking about it. They aren't protesting violently or acting as though what they're doing is shameful. They're creating groups ("Building Bridges," which makes me retroactively glad I dropped the "Building" from the title of that one book). They are marching--as Mormons--in gay pride parades! Can you imagine a Mormon group trying to march in a gay pride parade in 2009?
Also, I found out something else I didn't know: The church leaders in Utah "supported a 2009 anti-discrimination ordinance in Salt Lake City that protected people on the basis of sexual orientation." So by talking to friends and remaining open, my opinion of Mormons has, dare I say it, evolved. I'm still critical of the church leadership and still think that what they did in California in 2008 was wrong, but I'm much less inclined to say "Mormons are evil."
Also today, I read a journal postregarding the fallout from the criminal behavior of a couple furries at a furry event sponsored by and benefiting a rescue worker group (to which several of the furries belong). Among all the other stuff, I saw a few people saying, "This is why I don't tell my friends I'm a furry."
There's a movement to collect money to make up for the financial fallout, and I think that's great. It certainly will help repair the image of furries. But I think more important than that is the lesson of the gay rights movement(*) and the lesson of the Mormons, above. I think we need to be unashamed of being furries.
(* The furry fandom has a lot in common with the gay community, but I don't want to equate the fight to live equally in a relationship we were born to prefer with the right to have people not make fun of us for liking animal-people. They're different in degree, and I realize that. But at the core of both is the fight to be respected as people no matter how we are born or how we choose to express those feelings we are born with, or how we choose to live our lives as long as we aren't harming others.)
Because:
1. If we act ashamed of it, then the people who don't know anything about it will assume that it's something to be ashamed of. Really. This is a thing. Imagine that you're doing a Google search, and this kinda weird cult-thing comes up that you don't know anything about, and you're like, "hey, wait, I recognize that symbol--my friend has it on her laptop." So you go ask her about it. How would you feel if she replied with:
* "Oh, yeah! It's kind of a fun thing a few of us do. Sorta weird, but I really have fun with it."
* "It's nothing. I only kind of like the symbol. I'm not really that INTO it, not like a lot of OTHER people are. My God, you didn't see that CSI episode, did you?"
If you act like it's no big deal, then your friends will think it is--wait for it--no big deal. If they saw the NJFurBQ thing, and ask you about it, then you just say, "There's like fifty thousand furries in this country. Some of them are bound to be inconsiderate assholes. Me and my friends all donated money to cover the cost of what those idiots did and people are talking about banning them from future furry events." That's it. End of story.
2. If you don't tell people you're a furry, then all they will know is the people who get the publicity. This includes the CSI episode, the NJFurBQ, the panda guy... The lesson of the Mormons, above, is that despite some pretty bad publicity, you can change people's perceptions a little at a time. Yes, you are not going to be written up in the paper for being a guy who does NOT have illegal public sex. But you know what? Your friends know YOU. They don't know that guy in the paper. And associating YOU with the fandom gives them a hell of a lot more reason to have a positive impression of it than the publicity surrounding the few idiots/criminals who surface every so often.
When I mentioned this on Twitter, I got a couple responses that I think merit addressing. One is "I can't come out as a furry at work; I'd lose my job." Well, okay. Personally I think there are far fewer of those situations than people think, but that's not my judgment call. I want to emphasize that I am not saying that you should wear a fursuit to work, or jump up on your desk and shout "I AM A FURRY." I'm saying that if a friend asks you about the con t-shirt, or about your Lion King poster, or why you went to Pittsburgh last weekend and did it have anything to do with that convention thing, that you should not be ashamed to say, "Yeah, I hang out with this fandom that's pretty cool."
The other response was that "the bad apples get all the press and we'll all be tainted by association." That's what I was trying to get across above, that if you're just talking to your friends, well, they know you. They trust you, if you're not a dick (don't be a dick). They don't know that guy in the paper. I'm sure if you reach, you can find an example of an asshole in some group they belong to--churches, sports fans, whatever--to give them an analogy. The best way to say it is "that guy in the paper is an asshole/criminal/idiot, and he'd be an asshole/criminal/idiot no matter what he was into, but because he's a furry, he was an asshole/criminal/idiot in a furry way, and because people don't really know a lot about furries, they assume that that's typical."
And the fandom is doing so many cool things. We give thousands and thousands of dollars to charity every year. We have a vibrant, flourishing artistic and literary community. We cherish and foster creativity and independence and self-expression. We are tolerant to a fault. We are good people. This is a fandom that I am proud to be a part of, and I tell people about the cool things we do ALL THE TIME. When I brought a couple non-furry SF writers to MFF last year, they were thrilled, and they said, "Next year, we're coming back with costumes."
So be proud of your fandom. Be judicious about where you talk about it--don't get fired or disowned or whatever. But give people a chance to hear the good side of the fandom.
And if you hear about people doing shit like at this NJFurBQ--speak up and tell them that's not okay. If you see it happening, stop it. This is your fandom. Take ownership of it.
but yeah i had to read this since you headed it with mormons.. i was expecting some real hate to the mormons and i was raised mormon so i had to make sure you werent gonna be all MORMONS ARE EVIL ^^ *i havent called myself a mormon since i started drawing yiff since literally im not a mormon if i draw yiff*
Some football fans paint their faces with their team's colors--that doesn't mean every football fan has to do that or that if you don't you aren't a fan. Wouldn't it seem strange to hear someone say "oh I never miss a game, but I am not a fan...it is not like I paint my face or keep statistics.
So, do you have any advice for people wanting to come out to family members? Like vids for example?
While they mostly can't put their finger on it, they know something.
Even if they don't always voice it.
One tip, possibly, might be to say it to them the way you said it to your friends.
Or ask them what they know about it... *shrugs*
I have very accepting parents, sadly... so I'm very pampered there. -.-'
I mean you don't see Anime fans trying to hide their interest/hobby just because there's a sexual side to it. :/
Pretty much what I've been preaching whenever someone ask about it.
"We accept anyone, doesn't matter preference or history... all we ask is for an open mind." to say it in my own words.
Still... well said, and I will share this wisdom with the few I know. ^.^
This is our community and I'll be damned if someone will think we're all sexual deviants just because of two people!
I really want to boycott the trial with signs that say, "We're not sexual deviants" and "They don't represent the Fandom" or something---anything that helps support the fandom. Those guys NEED to see justice serve, but we shouldn't have to be at the ones who suffer from it.
I think another thing you can do (and I haven't heard all of the details, like who told you to give up?) is just cooperate fully. Let the people see that yeah, you (and we) want these guys prosecuted as much as they do, that what they did isn't right in our community either.
I'll definitely do that! Thanks for the idea!
I didn't read that and say, this is why I don't tell people I like BBQ, or that I've been to NJ. What these did has nothing to do with being furry, or BBQ, or NJ--it has to do with being human. Humans do idiotic things all the time. They do horrific things. They also do fantastic and wonderful things.
In short: Preach it, brother.
I don't like fursuits, and kinda dislike the fact that it's become the face of furry.
And yet... for all its warts, I do like this fandom. Most of the people I know are cool, and they're not idiots that would (allegedly) decide to have public sex in fursuits in front of parents and children.
I think I'll stick around for a while.
I made them aware I was gay, and they tangentially found out I was a furry through less-than-savory means soon after. They are still a huge part of my life, and not once have I felt ostracized by anyone in my family, or frankly anyone I've met in person, for being gay. Hell, a few people I've told I'm a furry just reacted in a way like "Oh, yeah, I had a crush on Robin Hood for a while!" like it's no big deal.
Frankly I think the definition of what a furry is has been quite muddled. I think the basest, barest definition is, well, "someone who is sexually aroused by anthropomorphic beings and/or zoomorphic people." Being a furry doesn't necessarily mean you fursuit, or even participate in the fandom, I think.
But, I think I'm getting away from whatever point I was trying to make...
I have gotten more flak and hate from people for being raised Mormon (and not hating them), than I ever have for being gay, or a furry.
I would even take out the "sexually aroused" from your definition. I know plenty of furries who enjoy the fandom non-sexually or who enjoy the aesthetics of furries without finding them sexually interesting. Otherwise, yeah.
Now then, to the subject at hand...why is this so vastly important? I hate to be "that guy" when challenging this, but I think we need to think outside of the box here and ask ourselves, "Why does it matter?" I'm not trying to step on any toes (but that's avoiding the inevitable), but I feel this should be said.
I don't know if I count myself as a furry. I love the art, but that's about it. There are several wonderful artists (and writers!) on this website and the community is friendly and pretty awesome. But this doesn't mean it's the only community that does this. DeviantART has a great community as well, so does Reddit, and many other websites. When looking in the right place, the internet can be a great place to be.
My question is: Why are you making this such a important issue? This is an honest, legitimate question.
You say there's charity evens from the conventions. Well, other conventions do this as well.
Comic con, for example:
http://www.newyorkcomiccon.com/What.....arity-Auction/
E3 as well:
controllerxbox360.360depot.info/2011/11/30/justin-wong-to-compete-for-charity-at-e3-convention-in-june/
There are two sides of this coin.
The furry fandom is a fandom, and yet I feel as if some people treat it like it was a religion or a race. Something to be firmly proud of. What is the difference between a furry and a gamer? Or how about an otaku? Perhaps it's because it's more broadly "accepted" among society, but then again, it seems more 'normal' (not too sure about otaku's though, hahaha.).
When I hear about those struggling to "come out" as furries, it makes me think they're treating a molehill as if it were a mountain. You are not a terrorist, your are not a member of the K.K.K. There is no fear of being lynched or stoned. I do agree you have to "represent", but don't represent because you're a furry--represent because you're a good person and you want others to treat you as such.
Sorry if this seems to be a big 'ol rant, but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. ^^; Thanks for taking the time to read this.
When you hear someone struggling to "come out" about these things it is because they feel some sort of shame about what they like. They would love to tell people that they enjoy this kind of a thing but fear that people will include them in the umbrella of stereotypical thought. (Much the same, especially in primary and secondary school, you may receive judgment if you are a known Trekkie or D&D player)
I think Simon Pegg says it all here: http://missiongeek.com/articles/201.....be-a-geek.html
You don't have to shout it on the roof tops but just do yourself justice and stay true to your likes and dislikes. If someone asks you, well, why should you be ashamed? You are a decent person and the liking of one thing should not change a relationship. If it does, then you have found the shallow among the crowd! Why should you be ashamed of it? Because some people get press when they do something really dumb? Well, then we should all say we aren't humans based on how many assholes we will see on a daily basis!
Well, again, what is the difference between a gamer and a furry? Gamers do not have the same stereotypes as furries. If anything, gamers are more broadly accepted (except if you're Amish (I'm joking)) and geeks are "cool"--have you seen the ridiculous styles they have to look like a geek?. They play video games like XBOX or PS3--games are beautiful, awesome things that just about everyone enjoys. It can be a form of art that takes your breath away with the graphics and the emotionally-tugging story that's woven within it. Or maybe you can relive your childhood with a good 'ol Mario or Sonic game. This is the reputation gamers are associated with. Anyone, at any age, can play them. They are not so muddled as furries are.
Exactly. There should be no shame. My wonder is why there is shame? You should just come out and say it, if they ask anyway. If they don't, then oh well. Shoot, being a furry is something fun, I get that. You're enjoying yourself with something fun.
If you're a casual furry--you maybe browse FA once a week, you don't really have a furry avatar, or you don't have many pics of him/her if you do, if most of your friends aren't furries and days go by without you thinking about it--then yeah, it's probably not as big a deal whether you cop to it or not. It's like "coming out" as a stamp collector. But for a lot of furries, it's a big part of their lives, and a positive part of their lives, and that's something they shouldn't be afraid to share with their friends.
Do you act differently because you're on this website? This website has an awesome community, as I said, because it has great people (I doubt it's because they're furries, I believe they're just good people). Other sties have this. I don't think we should alienate ourselves from the outside just because we don't feel comfortable: where is there to be uncomfortable about? Would a furry act so differently around non-furries? I understand there is a level of fandom, but I don't think they would be wondering around in a fursuit for a job interview--but I'm probably wrong. There's always one isn't there?
Furries can be completely normal. Anyone with a different lifestyle or hobby can be normal. It's when they think there's something 'wrong' with it that they feel alienated and have to retreat to others who feel the same. "Birds of a feather flock together", I understand that. I understand the need of feeling welcomed and apart of something; humans are social creatures, we do this all the time (gangs, clubs, sororities, groups of friends, ect). We're all human underneath the fur and if we treat it more importantly than it is, we will continue to alienate ourselves.
As for which podcast, ask Knotcast. They have a long history in the fandom and keep up with those kinds of things.
I enjoyed your post and agree with most of your points. However, I would raise one thought. The adult component of the fandom is very prevalent. It exists almost everywhere furry exists; from art galleries, to cons, to story sites, etc. The only thing separating most mature or even graphic content from general material is a simple filter click or Google search. I think that with this sexual material so intertwined with all things in the anthropomorphic fandom, the impedance to "coming out" as furry publicly is the social constraint to keep such things private. Even if one is not into the adult material, everyone knows it's there, and association can be deadly enough for some. Imagine if Walt Disney had created multiple adult works on the side, I would wager that the public perception of Disney would be much different today.
Forgive me my trespasses.
-Tux