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I am an ADULT artist, and I am not ashamed.
13 years ago
*WARNING* This journal is ADULT-RATED. If you have your mature filter on, it should censor out all the naughty words, but I cannot be held accountable if your brain substitutes the real cuss words for the %&*@! signs. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! :p
This has been a long time coming, I think. I have been frustrated and angry over this subject almost since my first convention in the fandom, and I really feel right now, with the amount of people talking about Furry and its' place in the public eye and the media, it's time to say something.
Recently, it was brought to my attention that an image I posted here under the 'General' tag was being viewed by underage folks, who presumed (correctly) that the image was indicative of a sexual act. I didn't see this as a problem, because:
A. There are thousands of images here on FA which skirt the line, or come FAR closer. Most furry artists have about ten in their gallery that are 'indicative of a sexual act' without actually showing a thing. Even completely clean pinups in which a characters attributes are highlighted by their clothing come closer to 'adult' than an image cropped above the waist, in which *nothing* of pertinence is shown.
B. As I understand it, if someone can view a completely clean image in which nothing explicit is shown, but something sexual is alluded to, those people already have that sexual act in mind, and thus, know it exists somewhere in the world. Namely, if you watch someone making bobbing motions with their head, and their hand cupped around an invisible 'shaft', and your mind instantly translates 'they are pantomiming a blowjob', you have made that assumption because you already know what a blowjob IS. And let's be honest, most underage teenagers on this site know what a blowjob is, whether or not they have lied their way around the maturity filter.
If you are EXTREMELY underage, you should not know what a blowjob is. And if you do, oh well. Damage done.
The point of the matter here is, I don't begrudge FA or the people here on FA for trying to keep the really raunchy stuff away from children, or adults who just don't want to see those sorts of things. The issue becomes 'where do we draw the line?' And this is an issue I've had not only here on this website, but at conventions. When a convention insists 'all adult artwork must be censored', let's be honest, most artists slap a sticker or some tape over the naughty bits, and the customers perusing our art are expected to imagine that the wolf bent over the fox, with a strange substance puddling on the floor is. . . what. . . squeezing go-gurt between the two of them?
There's a point at which you have to ask, who are we really fooling? What, really, is the purpose of all of this? To assure ourselves we keep a PC image for all the non-furs out there? To protect our children? Or just to please the one or two people who will complain? Most of the time, the line seems to be drawn over something sexual. As way of an example, I have an image posted on this site somewhere that alludes to a character detoxing from a drug addiction. No one has ever complained about the rating of this image, because it isn't sexual. But in the real world, drug addiction is just as mature a subject, if not moreso, than sex is. No one has ever complained about this image. But it's been there for years.
It's not my place to say where the line is drawn. I'm just the artist, not a moderator, and I wouldn't WANT to be in charge of moderating that sort of thing. Because ultimately, it comes down to opinion. What one person finds offensive, others do not. And there is very little I, personally, find offensive.
It IS my place, however, to make a statement about my artwork, and I feel it's about time I did so. So, here it is:
I draw adult artwork. I am not ashamed of this fact. My gallery is riddled with it, and even many of the 'general' pieces I have posted allude to adult subject matter, much of which is not even sexual. My comics deal with material which is not suitable for children, including but not limited to: drug use, alcohol, adult relationships, adult SEXUAL relationships, slavery, prostitution, war, domestic abuse and violence, hate groups, racism and sexism, and MORE violence. My flagship comic is ABOUT prostitution. There is no possible way to read any of my three comics and avoid the adult themes. Even if you have never seen the adult scenes, every single one of you that has read the stories and understood them has had some form of imagery in your head. Pleasant to you or no.
When I label a piece 'General', it is because there is nothing explicitly adult taking place in it. But the gallery I have here on FA is NOT family-friendly. When I show my work to my relatives, I supervise their visits here, and select the images I want them to see. If you have a child, or a person in your household who is offended by adult content, and they log onto FA and visit my gallery, I only promise you that the images they see WILL fall within the right maturity rating. I can not prevent where their minds go to, when they view these pieces. And if you think that might be a problem, this gallery is not the place for them. If I had children, I would not want them seeing my gallery. I follow the rules FA has set forth, but art is SUBJECTIVE. There just isn't a way to sanitize it all.
And I really don't have any desire to. Some day, I might have my own, family-friendly gallery somewhere online. It's a thought I've often considered. But for the moment, it is my personal opinion that, point blank, my artwork is for adults, or mature teenagers, who can handle the thoughts some of my general artwork might evoke. If half the teens and underage folks out there are anything like I was at their age, they're already quite educated on the birds and the bees, and I am not showing them anything new. I also hope all you underage folks have your maturity filters on, so I can't get in trouble for damaging your psyches.
But I'm a realist.
I draw adult-themed stuff, guys. If your ten-year-old is looking at my stuff. . . PLEASE supervise them. Or tell them to wait a few years. That's really it. I hate having to tip-toe around what I post, because someone somewhere didn't watch their kids closely enough, or doesn't want to believe that their daughter already knows what sex is.
Also, if you're underage, and this fact has prevented you from ordering my ADULT COMICS from Furplanet or Sofawolf, please stop contacting me asking me for the adult pages. I am not going to take pity on you because you're too young to own a credit card. Go slap your parents for not watching you more closely.
This has been a long time coming, I think. I have been frustrated and angry over this subject almost since my first convention in the fandom, and I really feel right now, with the amount of people talking about Furry and its' place in the public eye and the media, it's time to say something.
Recently, it was brought to my attention that an image I posted here under the 'General' tag was being viewed by underage folks, who presumed (correctly) that the image was indicative of a sexual act. I didn't see this as a problem, because:
A. There are thousands of images here on FA which skirt the line, or come FAR closer. Most furry artists have about ten in their gallery that are 'indicative of a sexual act' without actually showing a thing. Even completely clean pinups in which a characters attributes are highlighted by their clothing come closer to 'adult' than an image cropped above the waist, in which *nothing* of pertinence is shown.
B. As I understand it, if someone can view a completely clean image in which nothing explicit is shown, but something sexual is alluded to, those people already have that sexual act in mind, and thus, know it exists somewhere in the world. Namely, if you watch someone making bobbing motions with their head, and their hand cupped around an invisible 'shaft', and your mind instantly translates 'they are pantomiming a blowjob', you have made that assumption because you already know what a blowjob IS. And let's be honest, most underage teenagers on this site know what a blowjob is, whether or not they have lied their way around the maturity filter.
If you are EXTREMELY underage, you should not know what a blowjob is. And if you do, oh well. Damage done.
The point of the matter here is, I don't begrudge FA or the people here on FA for trying to keep the really raunchy stuff away from children, or adults who just don't want to see those sorts of things. The issue becomes 'where do we draw the line?' And this is an issue I've had not only here on this website, but at conventions. When a convention insists 'all adult artwork must be censored', let's be honest, most artists slap a sticker or some tape over the naughty bits, and the customers perusing our art are expected to imagine that the wolf bent over the fox, with a strange substance puddling on the floor is. . . what. . . squeezing go-gurt between the two of them?
There's a point at which you have to ask, who are we really fooling? What, really, is the purpose of all of this? To assure ourselves we keep a PC image for all the non-furs out there? To protect our children? Or just to please the one or two people who will complain? Most of the time, the line seems to be drawn over something sexual. As way of an example, I have an image posted on this site somewhere that alludes to a character detoxing from a drug addiction. No one has ever complained about the rating of this image, because it isn't sexual. But in the real world, drug addiction is just as mature a subject, if not moreso, than sex is. No one has ever complained about this image. But it's been there for years.
It's not my place to say where the line is drawn. I'm just the artist, not a moderator, and I wouldn't WANT to be in charge of moderating that sort of thing. Because ultimately, it comes down to opinion. What one person finds offensive, others do not. And there is very little I, personally, find offensive.
It IS my place, however, to make a statement about my artwork, and I feel it's about time I did so. So, here it is:
I draw adult artwork. I am not ashamed of this fact. My gallery is riddled with it, and even many of the 'general' pieces I have posted allude to adult subject matter, much of which is not even sexual. My comics deal with material which is not suitable for children, including but not limited to: drug use, alcohol, adult relationships, adult SEXUAL relationships, slavery, prostitution, war, domestic abuse and violence, hate groups, racism and sexism, and MORE violence. My flagship comic is ABOUT prostitution. There is no possible way to read any of my three comics and avoid the adult themes. Even if you have never seen the adult scenes, every single one of you that has read the stories and understood them has had some form of imagery in your head. Pleasant to you or no.
When I label a piece 'General', it is because there is nothing explicitly adult taking place in it. But the gallery I have here on FA is NOT family-friendly. When I show my work to my relatives, I supervise their visits here, and select the images I want them to see. If you have a child, or a person in your household who is offended by adult content, and they log onto FA and visit my gallery, I only promise you that the images they see WILL fall within the right maturity rating. I can not prevent where their minds go to, when they view these pieces. And if you think that might be a problem, this gallery is not the place for them. If I had children, I would not want them seeing my gallery. I follow the rules FA has set forth, but art is SUBJECTIVE. There just isn't a way to sanitize it all.
And I really don't have any desire to. Some day, I might have my own, family-friendly gallery somewhere online. It's a thought I've often considered. But for the moment, it is my personal opinion that, point blank, my artwork is for adults, or mature teenagers, who can handle the thoughts some of my general artwork might evoke. If half the teens and underage folks out there are anything like I was at their age, they're already quite educated on the birds and the bees, and I am not showing them anything new. I also hope all you underage folks have your maturity filters on, so I can't get in trouble for damaging your psyches.
But I'm a realist.
I draw adult-themed stuff, guys. If your ten-year-old is looking at my stuff. . . PLEASE supervise them. Or tell them to wait a few years. That's really it. I hate having to tip-toe around what I post, because someone somewhere didn't watch their kids closely enough, or doesn't want to believe that their daughter already knows what sex is.
Also, if you're underage, and this fact has prevented you from ordering my ADULT COMICS from Furplanet or Sofawolf, please stop contacting me asking me for the adult pages. I am not going to take pity on you because you're too young to own a credit card. Go slap your parents for not watching you more closely.
So please, keep the rude comments to yourself. :)
But as I said at least he -tries- XD
But Summer? Is -not- among them. That much I'd stake my own reputation upon. I'd vouch for him, full-heartedly.
He brought a little humor to the party. As you see Rukis didn't make a fuss over it. And honestly neither should you. :)
Just keep it friendly and lets move on.
Seriously guys, I love this site. I don't mean to make trouble for you. I just don't GET the rules, apparently.'
I understand, but I just don't think this is a time to joke, when there is a serious issue that could have gotten someone banned or suspended. Not trying to make a big deal, it just rubbed me the wrong way is all~
If people are so paranoid about their kids knowing about sex and naughty things they supervise them. Don't go jumping someone else's throat.
And if the picture wasn't showing anything and was only implying they need to watch alot of disney shows or even bugs bunny reruns or something.
There are jokes in there I just now got but as a kid I just LOVED cartoons. So, seriously. Just calm down.
So, honestly, in a time like this I would have liked a joking comment on my page.
And right below that comment you will see Summer saying how he was joking.
Honestly, if it rubs you the wrong way. Let it go. :\
I'm trying to, but you're the one who keeps it going ahaha. I'm not mad in any way, so please stop assuming. I didn't even make that argument at all that we should censor things, or that I'm jumping down anyone's throats. If you read even one of my posts to someone you'll see that. So please stop finding reasons to argue with or accuse me <3
Okay. Fine :) I'll just end this and never speak again.
*shakes hand and goes about her day cause she has better things to do*
Would you like some candy?
Also, as I side note, I do have one legitimate complaint. Could you try to post these dramastorm inspiring journals at an earlier hour? It's now 2:14AM EST and popping some popcorn would probably annoy somebody trying to slumber. Thanks!
On another note, are people seriously honest with maturity filters? I've been saying I was 18 since I was 12-13 (to the moderators I am in my early 20s now). Maybe it's more of an issue when you have parents who check your browsing history but other than that I've never seen any reason to not look at mature content online.
I. . . still don't get it. But apparently my perception of what's appropriate and inappropriate on this site is WAAAAAY off. Pics of a guy with his head in another guy's lap are a no, but underage toon characters in lingerie are A-OK!
Really the only thing I can do at this point is wait for this to happen again, because eventually, it's gonna. *sigh* I don't WANT to break the rules. I actually really LIKE this site. . . .
Honestly, you can google image search "BOOBS" and come up with more explicit stuff than a lot of your art. It's the fucking internet, people, PORN IS EVERYWHERE.
I would have like to have seen your work of art that was deemed "inappropriate" Your work is so in depth, and your grasp on human and animal anatomy is inspiring.
Oh. Um.
I totally didn't realize this was the result of admin actions. Dear goodness, um.
Wow, that REALLY makes the exchange we had above make me look like an ass @_@
This church window
http://www.milkboys.org/content/img.....st-blowjob.jpg
Or this naked lady?
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mytho.....VenusMa335.jpg
I've swapped accounts three times though because I was no longer satisfied with my username or galleries.
I'm legal now, though. I promise. :'D
Seriously guys, I love this site. I don't mean to make trouble for you. I just don't GET the rules, apparently.
my world-view is shattered.
Technically, we're greymuzzles D:
and I've had gray in my hair and beard since I was 26
so that'd make you about the same age as my brother
hell, I have gray Chest Hairs
then your a year younger than me
either way, it's all good.
I've been in the furry fandom two years after I first had access to a computer, which was in 1998 [Good ol' Furcadia]. The sad thing about that is that I was six years old, and started circumventing age restrictions at the age of eight. Oops. :'D
Top THAT!
I see you and raise you two decades.
Every single part of me really doubts this.
Maybe you meant to type 13?
I stole my fathers pager before I was born and used it to order pizza, then called up Al Gore with this great idea I called the "internet". He totally ripped me off man.
But other than that, how would you know what someone did during their life? you aren't there to witness it, so unless there is actual proof that they didn't do anything, you can't really say they haven't. I know what i did when i was a kid, just like you know what you did as a kid =D
Guess I'll just have to watch and find out~
http://www.nick.com/videos/playlist.....-playlist.html
.... The videos aren't available in your location....? DAMNIT!!
Also it would've been nice if Korra had actually had to work towards getting her bending back in the second season.
Parents don't know how to parent anymore and they have to use these things as scapegoats so they aren't to blame for their children's horrible upbringing.
It's always been my impression that your children are -yours- to supervise.
Maybe I live in a different world or something; I don't know.
There was this woman offended at the zoo once because a peacock and peahen were mating. She was like 'really I can't even get away from it here?' Sex is a natural thing, it is really disappointing we're so immature as a race that we get offended and offput by sex. And if a parent doesn't want their kid to know about it, THEY need to watch out for it, not have the world walk on eggshells for their kids' sakes =_=
My dog was sitting next to me, and I swear he looked up at me and we had a moment of "Really? Did they really just do that?"
I suppose the point of that story is something along the lines of "If parents did their jobs, instead of letting a television raise their child, we wouldn't need as much censorship."
On a related note, I've always felt that Louis C.K summed up my entire feelings on a lot of matters regarding children.
http://i.imgur.com/eVBBh.jpg [NSFW - language, etc]
Just swap out the 'marriage' issue with anything parent-related, really.
And yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. I know moderators on this site have taken down pictures of pets for their balls and sheaths showing in a nonsexual manner :I Like they were laying on their belly an there they were and somebody got their panties in a bunch, people are so worried over nothing and get offended over dumb things.
LET'S DO THIS.
I for one will be making a point to parent properly...
where did the whole thing about taking responsible for your action go? Why is every one playing the blame game?
I think he got it spot on.
(im 19 so its not really an age issue)
and i tottaly agree. people skirt on the cub stuff ALOT i find too.
like they use pokemon. and say "oh well shes grown up, but she looks young cause thats just how the pokemon LOOKS!
:/
"I WASN'T PICKING IT I HAD AN ITCH FER CRYIN OUT LAUHD" - Eric Cartman
I think this also applies to all censorship. It's really quite silly in my opinion. Who are they fooling when "What the fuck?!" becomes "What the ****?!" I've always been a firm believer that parents should be moderating what their children are viewing on television, in literature, and on the internet. Of course though, it's easier to put the blame on the artist, or which ever media is hosting the content. This puts a remarkable amount of responsibility on an artist, simple drawing and sharing with they love, and a huge hassle on the site hosting their work.
I think the parents of minors should be stepping up and taking their own responsibility, and on top of that, how long can anyone really expect to protect junior from the *GASP* horror of adult content!
I think it's sad that so many people try to make each other and everyone else feel like we should be ashamed of our sexualities, our fetishes or desires. Especially when completely harmless.
Stay proud, Rukis!
I thought it was ridiculous, but then I remembered I needed to THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
HERPADERPDYDERPADERP
WELCOME TO REALITY, PARENTS. Try focusing on some REAL threats.
In the radio edit of the shitty Nickleback song, "Rock Star," here is how it is censored:
"The girls come easy and the
(drugs) come cheap, we'll all stay skinny 'cuz we just won't eat."
So it's perfectly acceptable to imply, even glorify, anorexia and casual sex, but even the word DRUGS is not allowed.
WHAT THE FUCK.
Peoples ignorance is one of the greatest banes of today's society... Seems like only few seem to actually know what a song is about, and actually notice if a radio station says 'inappropriate material'...
*hipster*
...I dunno if this personal fact gives a point, but I'm 16 and I get this journal.
Original Line: "What? you think i know how to use a gun just because i'm black, you racist motherfucker"
Edited: "What? you think i know how to use a gun just because i'm black, you racist melon farmer"
I'm not sure why, but for some reason, the edit just seems 10 times more hilarious, if only because of how terribly out of place it is :B
Parents firstly should not be blaming the artist for their children seeing things inappropriate for their age, it is irrational, seeing as when something comes along that is inappropriate, generally there are warnings and filters to prevent the child seeing, or to inform the parent that they need to stop their children from seeing something; Such as if there is a door that says 'adults only bar through here', and one's child asks their parent if they can go through there, and the parent just ignores the sign and says yes, then the parent blames the bar for what the child saw.
What is seen as norms and what is acceptable in today's society is completely fucked as well... Something screwed up along the line for what is acceptable, and no-one has bothered to fix it.
I can't help but point out what you said here: the artist can't control where the viewer's mind goes.
Really though, this was well stated.
It doesn't come down to opinion. It comes down to rules and what's right. I don't want to make an enemy but I am siding with the ones who complained.
It's obviously an adult scenario. it's not alluding. It's not suggesting. It's showing another man getting a blowjob by another man.
You can justify it. You can write a novel on this whole thing but that single fact still stands and the fact is that it's mature or adult in nature and not even remotely close to general.
Just my 2 cents and before everyone's like. "Rukis and me have a right to an opinion" then hate, bitch, and moan at me. I have a right to an opinion too.
Because there's an objective definition of "what's right."
In certain places in history, mass genocide of certain ethnicities was considered "what was right" by the mainstream culture.
But I guess we always need to go with "What's right"!
HERPDYDERPADERP
I mean what's right as in the site rules and regulations. DUH! -.-
BUT RULES ARE ALWAYS GOOD
HERPADERPDERPITYDERPADERP
Rules aren't perfect but this is a FUCKING WEBSITE!!!! Not a country!!! Not a pizza parlour!!! A WEBSITE!
I think the bigger issue here is why should anyone care that one slip-up was made; censorship and it's purveyors hold it as such a glorious thing, when it truly isn't.
Regardless, even if all supposed 'adult' content was perfectly censored, I wouldn't recommend ten year olds to be browsing it.
BUT RULES ARE ALWAYS GOOD
HERPADERPDERPITYDERPADERP
But I guess we always need to go with "What's right"!
HERPDYDERPADERP
Annoying me to get a rise out of me. Troll.
Then tell Rukis that. It's an image where you can see clear as day a male getting a blowjob from another. It's not suggestive at all. It's right there. It may be cropped but you can obviously see it.
I was just trying to make a counter argument here to side with those who, shouldn't have freaked out, but were in the right.
Again with "in the right"– have we not established that 'right' is an arbitrary concept?
It's not always cut and dry when it comes to what's right but I believe in what I believe is right. I believe in absolute justice and law.
It doesn't really look like that though. I haven't seen the original but even I clearly saw it.
Exactly. By this very logic, right and wrong do not exist. Perhaps we even don't- prove to yourself that you exist.
Who's too decide whose opinion is the best? If it was done by the majority, America would still have black slavery, little rights for women, and LGBT marriage as well as decriminalization of near-harmless substances wouldn't even be on the table.
Right and wrong do exist but it's our job to find out what truth lies behind that. What is the truth to everything?
We have no rights to opinions. My opinion is the sky is green and you couldn't argue against it because "it's my opinion".
Opinions shouldn't matter. Opinions are just stupid things to justify the wrong or the weird. We can't argue opinions.
They also fit the definition of stupid.
"I think therefore I am" is a horrible argument. However, debating it once resulted in a cellular device of mine smashed to bits in a hipster-y coffee house.
Anything can be argued as someone's opinion. So why argue right? Goodbye.
A man steals bread to feed his starving family. He has no money. To him, it is right - he is doing something he may not even want to do simply to keep his family alive. Anyone else sees him as a criminal.
And, as Rukis said, that image only implies a blowjob IF YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT A BLOWJOB IS. You saw it, because you already know what a blowjob is.
That man who stole bread. He has done the right thing.
Know what. Just forget it ok? I've learned and argued about these kinds of things since I was a kid. So... whatever.
"That man who stole bread. He has done the right thing." is your perspective, just as much as the perspective of the guy whose bread was stolen is of opinion that that man did the wrong thing.
I actually am of opinion that man did the wrong thing too, it would've been a different situation if he explained his situation and asked for the bread, instead of just taking it.
What the people above are rightfully arguing for is that there are no absolute right or wrongs, that we can only form a decision for ourself on what is right and what is wrong, and we can use things like rationalism form a basis for it.
Also "I've learned and argued about these kinds of things since I was a kid. So... whatever. " is an attempt argumentum ad verecundiam, you're not an authority on the subject of morality and moral absolutes, regardless of wether you learned and argued about this since the beginning, and even if you were that doesn't mean you're right this time.
I was ragging on relativism, not so much morality, and probably writing on this stuff at 5am isn't helping me be clear in what I want to say. I did say that morality gets muddy quite easily.
I also think it's possible for morality to be subjective without being a relativist about it, but I am too tired to explain the how in a coherent manner.
The bread thief is a good example organization moral dilemma. Different moral theories will classify it differently, but it's also important to differentiate law from morality. There's no question that the man is a criminal. He presumably broke the law. Whether or not what he did was right or wrong is another story.
Relativism is a disease in the world. I am right and you are too, but we are fundamentally contradicting each other. That leads to absurdity to take that view. On issues that aren't mere opinion, if two people contradict each other, then either one or the other is wrong OR they are both wrong. They both cannot be right, because otherwise you have a contradiction. In essence, if both are right you have an instance of p & ~p. Logically, the truth table is false in all possibilities.
Relativism is what empowers bigotry and prejudice. Hatred. Anything, because anything follows from a contradiction. Just because someone thinks that they're right doesn't actually mean that they are. The world would be a much better place if people would stop worrying so much about offending people by telling them that they're wrong!
It's important to differentiate between matters of preference (vanilla versus chocolate) and matters of belief (religion) and matters of debate. All of them involve opinions. The first doesn't matter, and anyone that wants to argue that chocolate is universally better than vanilla is just stupid. Preferences aren't universal. With religion and similar things, you take a position of tolerance. If the belief system isn't actively hurting society (sacrificing babies, for example), allow it. That's not to say that all religions are correct. If Christianity is correct, then Hinduism is wrong. Reverse applies. The problem here is not that the subject matter is subjective, but that the subject matter contains truth claims that can't be verified. It doesn't make religion stupid, it makes it a murky mess where an unbiased party can't actually pick a side.
Matters of debate can be similar to matters of belief, but these can have clear answers. 2*2=4. Clear cut, and if you say otherwiseo you are wrong. Sorry. Other things just aren't immediately clear and two sides making arguments doesn't mean that one side isn't wrong. It means that either they haven't been proven wrong or that they're remaining ignorant. Morality is a great example. It's messy and it's being debated, but its so complex that the answer may never be found. But progress is being made: wrong things are being identified and pointed out. Murder is wrong. Period. I am defining murder as an unjustified killing, and you can certainly argue specifics of what is and isn't justified, but doing so doesn't make murder any less wrong, it just questions what is ans isn't murder.
/rant.
Logic and reason dictate that relativism is simply false. Rationality is mutually exclusive with relativistic thinking. I apologize for spelling things caused by writing on a tablet.
Someones morality all depends on their perspective on the world. Morality evolved within us as a tool for us to use, therefore morality will generally be roughly the same amongst people, but with differences in it, and over generations those differences can grow to bigger gaps, and therefore morality is subjective
My Capstone was actually on this topic.
I do take into consideration what others say but I just don't really feel like writing a long paragraph. As you have done.
Also you are trying to flaunt your intelligence off just by this statement: "If you sat down for a coffee with me you'd see that I was. I'm smarter than I put off. A lot smarter."
That is by the way also pleading for it.
What I don't understand is why you replied to this journal and to several comments if you're not interested in discussing this. That makes no sense, and brings me to an initial conclusion that you wanted to come off as smart but people have replied to you with arguments you haven't an idea on how to address.
So get down from your high horse, wether you're intelligent or not doesn't matter. Either address the arguments or don't, but do not act as if you're smarter than everyone here because you are not.
I could address those arguments but meh. I'm not on any high horse at all :\ You keep putting me down and saying I'm stupid, etc. So I obviously have to counter that. I won't just let you call me down on your high horse >.>;
Besides, most of what I say you've already heard from everyone else.
This thing has already been resolved. Rukis and others resolved it. I'm done here :\
Keep calling me stupid though. It doesn't really matter.
In short, truth is in the eye of the beholder. One person's truth is another person's fantasy.
However, regardless of the image in question... it's the parent's responsibility to watch over their kids. Not the worlds job to censor what exists simply because parents choose not to take the appropriate actions necessary to "guard" their children from "filth". By the reasoning here, folks should start launching mass campaigns on sites like google and such, because it's obviously the fault of those sites.
Just like the woman suing McDonald's for spilling hot coffee in her lap... ITS HOT COFFEE DAMMIT, doesn't go in your lap.
Or like suing the maker of the hair dryer you decided to shower with, because you got shocked and received severe electrical burns...
What about suing the company that makes your shampoo, even though it says on the bottle "NOT FOR INTERNAL USE" ...
C'mon people, take responsibility for your own damn mistakes, and quit blaming folks who aren't in any way responsible for your failures.
It ain't mature until you can actually SEE something.
Rukis' picture is raunchy, no doubt about that! But does it show any cock? It suggests blowjob, but doesn't actually show blowjob.
Any kid going into a corner shop here can see the lads mags on the top shelf with the badly censored nipples. They can't reach them to have a flick through, but you can still see them.
I'm done arguing anything. It's always gonna be that single generalized unoriginal argument. I'm done with it. It just gets too repetitive to repeat myself constantly.
Why don't you just take a minute, take a deep breath, and try understanding these people you're calling out for breaking the rules? Maybe you'll get a better understanding if you just think about how they might be looking at it for a minute?
And really, don't be worrying about what she posts stuff under. It's her choice. People should know by now what kind of content she usually posts anyway, and if anyone is complaining about one particular submission, then I don't even see why you're watching her in the first place
Anyways, I've heard it all before. Blame the parents. It's always the parents fault.
It's her choice yes but there are certain guidelines and rules to follow as well.
And oh my god, who even actually cares about the rules on here? Fucking waste of time, that's what it is.
ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THE ALL NIGGA TRIPLE SIX CREW WE THE BUSINESS
"Jack, next time you get a bright idea, just write it in a memo!"
Why is an image where a woman is wearing a bikini, and all but falling out of it allowed to be rated 'general', when an image in which a character's head is in another's lap, which could be portraying ANYTHING, is not?
'Obvious' isn't as obvious as people make it out to be. There are a LOT of things posted on this site in which MLP characters are drawn in a seductive fashion, wearing lingerie or skimpy outfits, or doing wildly inappropriate things for characters who are supposed to be CHILDREN. How is that not cub? Isn't THAT against the rules?
The point at which something is offensive is when someone somewhere finds it offensive, and complains. And I'm not saying I'm trying to fight that. Just making it very clear that no matter what I post, someone somewhere will probably find it offensive, just because of the material I work on. If that means that from this point on, I have to rate everything I post as 'mature', so be it.
We're not talking about those though. We're talking about that one image. You can do general work and post it as general.
But look. You can clearly see it as mature. Clear as day.
For women as long as nipples/vajayjay aren't being shown then it's general hmm.... if I photoshop mens nipples onto a woman... does it have to be censored?
Anyways, there's a difference here. Pinups with vaguely suggestive poses/scenes versus your image on someone clearly getting a blowjob.
And my opinion is, if I can see a woman's tits clear as day, and her swimsuit is doing NOTHING to cover them, that is far more adult than one man with another man's head in his lap. There wasn't even MOTION in my image, which means you really needed to use your imagination. Don't even get me started on the MLP pinups, or ANY of the pinups of cartoon characters who are clearly pre-puberty. Just because it bothers me doesn't mean I begrudge people the right to draw it, or rate it, though. That isn't my job, and the way I see it, it's not my business.
It's all a matter of opinion. And that's precisely the problem. But I have no issue following the rules. I was ordered to take the image down, and I did. I just don't want this happening again. Thus the purpose for this warning.
I hate when people say. Ok mine was bad but look over here in this area instead. It's not about them. It's about the subject at hand. I could care less about those other things unless it directly affected me or I had seen it. I have not though.
I get no benefit from posting an image as 'general 'as opposed to 'mature', btw. Nothing whatsoever. General images get far less favs, far less people visiting 'em. Technically, from a business standpoint, it's to my benefit to do as much adult artwork as possible. My issue in this case was more. . . confusion.
But it's done now, and whomever was offended shouldn't be offended anymore. I think you're missing the point of this journal. I'm not fighting the fact that I had an image taken down. I'm trying to let people (people like yourself, I'd imagine) know, once and for all, that if you had issues with that image, you might have issues with images I'll post in the future. A LOT of my stuff has adult connotations, and if some things I find extremely inappropriate are okay, but things I find mundane are NOT, I really am not certain what qualifies to be bumped up to the adult rating on this site. It's all a matter of who's judging.
Nothing you're really saying is making sense anymore, and the use of the word 'duh' makes my head spin with stupid, so. . . gonna call it here. It feels like you're arguing for the sake of argument at this point, when there was never an argument to begin with. If your point is 'follow the rules'. . . I've done that. If your point is 'flag your mature stuff', I have done that, as well.
If your point is 'I think this image was mature, thus it is mature', I disagree with you, and that is and always will be my opinion. All that matters is that I abide by what the admins tell me is mature and what isn't, and I've complied with that. Kindly take your opinion and accept that it's yours, and not mine. And it never will be.
But try not to take everything everyone is saying as 'a jab at your throat'. This is debate. If you can't handle it, don't get involved. You began this discussion, after all.
So there's always that.
> Mature - Offensive content or mature themes. Mature work may involve or depict nudity in an artistic, non-sexual manner, blood and/or violence or non-explicit sexual themes.
So even no genital showing, since these characters are nude, should at the least be rated mature. And this was clearly a sexual picture, Rukis said it herself, so by that definition she admits it should have been labeled adult. So you're a little wrong with what you're saying as per the submission rules
The purpose of this journal is to prevent this problem in the future. I, apparently, cannot predict what is gonna offend people on this site. I've seen stuff I would personally consider faaaaar worse being labeled as 'General', and I had NO idea this image was gonna cause the shitstorm it did. So I'm warning folks for the future. . . most of my stuff might offend you. I can't help what's gonna offend this person versus that person. But almost all of my stuff has SOMETHING to do with SOMETHING you wouldn't want your five year old to hear about.
So yeah. Save posting everything I do as 'mature', which apparently can also get images changed or taken down, if they don't fit what the site considers that 'rating', I don't know what to do except. . . warn people.
I mean, I'm 15 but I couldn't imagine someone WAY younger even knowing this site. I'm sure you're just exaggerating.
I knew about this site when I was 11, and I knew about the mature and adult settings when I was 13. That's when I realized that not only the furry fandom is half-filled with sex, but also my favorite furry artists drew nasty, kinky porn.
I love FA for being a safe haven for furries to communicate with other furries and to share their interests and talents, but for a site that was made as an adult alternative for another art site, it isn't what I would put as a great site for the underage furries. But nothing is perfect.
And I really need to stop accidentally lying about my age. I'm really 16. :P
aswell as personal opinion of what is offensive.
Peoples ignorance towards parameters of most things leads to them being offended, or another negative affect;
A lot of people need to honestly have a bit more disdain and tolerance of things, especially if they do not actually know what is considered 'right' in certain subjects/fandoms/countries/groups.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
The whole point of this comment is not to rile you, mind you, but to ask your opinion; do you think my naked, furred, no-sexual-stuff showing pictures should be "mature"?
What about a picture of a male in a tight swim garment, showing an obvious bulge? VERY clear sexual implications for anyone who even knows what a penis is and where it's located. But, no genitals are actually showing, so it's okay?
At any rate, I find it a bit odd that you're saying anything when there are at least 3 images in your favorites gallery that would be "misrated" by your assertion that Rukis was in the wrong.
I will freely admit that I am offended by little other than willful and persistant ignorance where it endangers the safety of others. This considered, Rukis treats the vast majority of her artwork with kid gloves in my opinion. Very frequently I see images posted as general or all or what-have-you when they should be rated as mature or extreme. On this site, no less. I know that mods have banned users who reposted artwork specifically to allow minors or underage viewers to access them.
Rukis does not have a record for rule-breaking or guideline-bending. She has shown herself to be very impartial and levelheaded in regards to artwork and the nature of her artwork. That said, she is NOT a social regulator responsible for the hurt feelings of a very small (albeit verbally obstreperous) minority.
I'd say Rukis would only have erred on the second image that showed shaft. But as I recall seeing it, it was displayed on the page with a red outline, denoting an adult rating. But I'm as flawed and error-prone as anyone else on this site.
I also didn't say that Rukis did have a record of breaking rules. I was just explaining what the rules say. I don't really agree with them, but that's the way they're written so I was hoping to try and explain it a little, and show why people shouldn't be mad at the ruling. Rukis herself doesn't seem to be mad about it, just not really understanding.
I think as a society, we try to put kid gloves on everything. And I don't know if Rukis does this, but the thing is the rules were there, and I'm just trying to explain to people who are offended and yelling, why it was. And what the rules say *shrug*
That said, there is nothing wrong with drawing porn, and people need to stop being immature about there being adult artwork. You can draw what you want, go for it. People shouldn't be all 'waahhh adult art :(' but when you are on a site where there are ratings, you should respect those ratings.
You only imply a blowjob mentally because you know what one is.
Words have no meaning to you if the meaning hasn't been given to you, one way or another.
drawing adult is a line i don't feel like crossing so far, but i understand your point of view perfectly
You know the only reason we care is we want more free pornography, despite the fact that you put an extensive amount of effort into creating such depictions. We're all greedy little hum... fur... anthropomorphs!
...
;_;
It's all the rage these days.
Rukis is an amazing artist AND writer.
Interesting story, believable characters, stunning artwork... It's unfortunately quite rare to find all three together.
To be honest, I'm probably the only furry in the fandom who doesn't consider "look! it has uncensored naughtiness! OOOO... Adults Only...!" to be a selling point. That's pretty much the only reason I don't have them on my bookshelf... it just doesn't appeal to me in that way... To be honest, I'm not really sure how to say it without it sounding insulting (completely unintentionally)...
My issue is when im at my job browsing on my phone and people are posting erections and masterbation ictures. I try to be polite and say hey xD this is a amazing pic but dont you think it should be adult? Im usually replied to wih hostility... Mockery... And plain down right rudeness.... I end up just unwatching and explaining my case. If you label correctly who here is to judge. I recently put aside my adult worjs for a few reasons. One day i wish to be hired by a company and i would like to show them i thrived without the easy way of porn (everyone wants porn so tevhnically its easier to get paid.) i of course will still draw porn for me and my boyfriend but i wont post it most of the time. I am religious and users are brutal if you ever wish to debate by posting pictures you might not be proud of. And i wish to have children and share my art with there cute little face xD but i respect so many adult artists and writers you shalinka amwulf rrowdybeast are just a few. And really there are "adults" in this world and the rating is adult so where is the issue xD
But if a parent doesn't want a kid seeing porn that much and if people knowingly let their kids on a site where there is porn just a misclick on ratings away, they are hypocritical and rather irresponsible parents in their own regards.
:I Funny how they prepare you for this and then turn on you and/or someone else when they realize you're experiencing it. She called us both sick fucks.. then I find sex toys laying about her room..
My parents are VERY catholic, so I just never say anything. Like, to the point that birth control is unacceptable and masturbating is a sin. They don't know I masturbate, or that I draw sexual pictures, or that I've had sex. It's such narrow minded and old fashioned that it is just upsetting. I almost wish they were hypocritical just so I could call them out. But they don't use birth control (I looked through my mom's medicine cabinets and stuff and only found preggo tests) or toys, or anything. I even, through a lot of carefully worded statements, found out that they don't even do oral. So I'm pretty sure they're THAT couple that only have missionary sex in the dark. I totally am okay with that, but I just hate how they push their viewpoints and choices onto other people =/
I could never be in an environment like that x_x; When people start to get religious on me the first thing I go to is "I'm agnostic - my God has no name and I do not worship him in any sense" some understand and as long as I slip the word "God" and "Believe" in there they usually leave me alone but I dunno what I'd do or say if I met any extremists (not saying your parents are) especially since I'm pansexual.. speaking of that.. wouldn't Christians be pansexuals? :D
Aren't they suppose to love everyone no matter the color of their skin, etc etc
I wonder if it's religion, or just people in general, who've made this whole sex thing a huge taboo. I feel like people were much more religious back in the day, but it didn't seem like they were as put off/disgusted or offended by sexual stuff back then.
If they can SEE adult work and are underage not my problem
they obviously want to see porn. and yes you're right lets face it
most underage kids are subjected to sex and adult material at an early age
Bottom line I don't give shits lol.
DA has FAR WORSE on it's front page as "artistic nude photography"
and I'm pretty sure a chick going to town on herself with a pink vibe and blankets behind her as a "backdrop"
isn't artistic
Also, allude*, not elude, but no worries.
I just don't think it's fair...then again, I AM underage, so I shouldn't be talking. :b
But yeah, that's true. I don't think some furs on here should be age-locked...I am, unfortunately, but since I'm into a bit of gore, I sometimes like to look at gore pics on here...but I can't, because it's rated mature for teh blood! :c But still, the art on here shouldn't have a rating, because like you said, if anything above general is viewed by anyone under 18, it is THEIR fault for viewing it. Negative comments or whatever shouldn't go to the artist for posting it.
This is practically a porn site, after all...they should probably have a "click to enter site if you're over 18" thing..
Also, I think any age should be able to view 'adult content', it's not like they don't know what it is by the time they reach third grade and got the discovery channel don't they?! ... Oops, quoted eminem.
'Tis not a justification but an explanation.
GOD DAMMIT JAPAN
...They're trying to cover all legal basis. Why is this a hard concept for people to understand? :/
I do see where you're coming from, but when there is an age standard... I don't see how the site is at fault.
it's completely asinine, but if someone took it to court I bet they could win easily because society treats anything sexual like a huge tabboo, despite pretty much every TV show and advertisement being laden with sexual and suggestive themes xD
I haven't seen you comment anywhere for a while now. Miss watching your arguments (and sometimes participating in them).
Hopefully I'll bump into you again :)
Indeed, I hope we meet again.
Looking at a Japanese flag...a white sheet with a bold red circle in the middle.
My mind uncontrollably conjures a vision of a giant drop of blood splashed on the white cloth..."Oooh, violence! VIOLENCE! Must censor that!"
Scores of nukes dropped on Japan. KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM!
Japan is no more.
Problem solved! My mind is now clear of that image of violence evoked by now extinct flag.
</sarcasm>
Well, there are some who will always exaggerate the imagery of some art. And there are some who will misinterpret. One has to use some judgment (and some reasonable rules) in setting the ratings. And yes, it's ultimately the parents' responsibility to manage their kids' exposure to materials on Internet.
But do realize that there are some adults who do not want to even see 'mature'/'adult' stuff lest such act of viewing violate their faith or whatever. I can't really answer to that problem.
At least that's my 2 cents.
Very well composed, rational and realistic. Honestly, it just furthers the idea (to me) that FA should be an 18+ only site to avoid any legal issue so artists can present their art as they see fit.
Violets are blue
Parents complaining about something their little Timmy saw on the internet whilst surfing unsupervised deserve a solid slap for being irresponsible parents.
Stigmas associated with sex and sexuality in society are silly.
As is this poem.
I shouldn't be making comments after staying up through the night after having minimal sleep the previous night. Fuck it. I regret nothing! *hits "Post"*
I don't care that you post adult artwork, and I enjoy what you draw.
I agree with this journal, and you have my support, not that it mean's anything.
Thanks for making all your artwork and sharing it with us.
I think there are a few obvious rules for what counts as 'adult', but I like the system at SoFurry a little better because it has grades for content: Clean, Adult, and Extreme. I think tasteful nudity shouldn't have to be seen as adult, but it can be best to err on the side of caution. I've personally found non-adult things incredibly sexy at times, while a lot of adult art tends not to phase me the same way simply because of my own personal kinks, moods, and the talent of the artist(s) in question. I believe in the right for people to complain, but honestly, if a hypothetical blowjob is what sends you into a tizzy, let me read you some statistics about the world and maybe you'll find bigger things to get offended by.
Here's a starter pack: The life expectancy of Trans* people in the USA is 26 years old. If that fact gets you less riled up than an artist known for posting adult things posting something that might be adult, please slap yourself.
Anyway, Rukis. You're an awesome, rabbity artist, and may all your blowjobs be happy ones.
PS: I still need to light one of your books on fire in front of you.
then it'll be warranted. . . .
When he got there, there were a bunch of people having raucus sex, doing drugs, and behaving in all sorts of ways that we're taught will scar a child for life.
The guy is totally fine. The things he saw had no real importance to him at the time, it was something the grownups were doing that was weird. He's socially well-adjusted, a highly-talented and well-recompensed professional, and a pillar of his community. He helps other people through hard times, and is well-looked-up to.
He's also a pillar of the BDSM community, and his influence makes it safer, better, and more fun.
He doesn't lie, he doesn't cheat, he doesn't steal, and he doesn't approve of rape or bullying. He's extremely stable and a benefit to all who know him.
Allow me to remind people, since they seem to have forgotten:
Private bedrooms are an extremely recent phenomenon. Our very recent ancestors tended to have sex and make babies in the same room that their children of the last several years were sleeping in. They didn't stop having children merely because the act of making them might be audible or visible to the children of last year.
If little human beings exploded or became sociopaths upon witnessing their parents during carnal relations, the human race would have long since become extinct.
For fuck's sake, I knew where babies came from by the time I was three. I heard my parents having sex, and I knew they were having sex - whatever that was. I'm not sure where the idea came from, that if babies knew where babies came from, it would scar them for life.
That doesn't mean you should _include_ your kids in a sex act that is for adults.
But the thing we do that allows life of our species to continue to exist on the planet isn't going to turn our children into ax-murderers or scar them for life if they witness it. Because there's nothing wrong with it. It's how people make other people.
There's a such thing as age-appropriate. We don't have sex with kids, because grownups having sex with kids isn't good for the kids.
But part of being a kid is the idea that someday they'll be an adult. Part of preparing them for that is letting them know that, when they're old enough and developed enough, they'll someday have feelings for another person, and do things with another person, that let them make another person that is their child.
It's also okay to tell kids "Mommy and Daddy need some grownup time, to do grownup things, that you aren't included in, because you are not a grownup."
Sorta like how your kindergartner isn't expected to work in a cubicle or dig a ditch, and work a job, they're not invited to mommy and daddy's special time. They also don't generally cook dinner on the stove, take out the trash, or drive cars - not because those things are dirty, but because little kids don't do those things.
So - the adult art you do? It's not intended for children. Children shouldn't be looking at it, any more than they should be driving the family car or playing with matches, or using a firearm or a bow and arrow.
The adult art you depict, about things adults might be doing with one another for fun (or profit), shouldn't even make any sense to a kid. And at the point it does, if they run into it by mistake - just like many kids have run into their own parents having happy play time because they learned how to pick the privacy lock on the bedroom door, will probably turn out fine.
Grownup things belong to grownups, and child-things belong to children.
And just like grownups can't understand why their kids will sing the same damn "Barney" song over and over, (because they've forgotten what it was like to be that age), kids won't understand why mommy and daddy (or daddy and daddy, or mommy and mommy) sometimes like to tickle each other while tied to the bedposts.
Some stuff is grownup stuff, and while we shouldn't go out of our way to inflict it on our children, and while we should certainly not have them participate, it's not going to scar them for life if they run across it. It's not dirty or wrong.
Any more than driving a car, going to a job, or changing our kid's diaper is wrong. It's just not something a kid should be doing.
That we're doing it isn't a bad thing.
I walked in on my parents having sex a half-dozen times when I was little. And it wasn't even necessarily vanilla sex. IT did make me uncomfortable, and I left quickly. But I've grown up to be a responsible, healthy, honest adult, who has a nice, problem-free sex life. I'm a good worker, a loyal friend, and am happy with myself and with others.
For fuck's sake, people. It's actually not a big deal.
and i like the phrase" if u cant do something smart, do something right"
Adam and Eve were totally fine walking around buck-ass naked until they fucked up and pissed off God. Then he invented SHAME.
Fucking religion ruins everything.
It was actually their eating of the forbidden fruit from that one tree in the middle of Eden, but yeah, the idea's there.
If you follow later, one guy who's name I have forgotten, passed out drunk naked in his tent. He was covered with a blanket by people walking in backwards so as not to see him. That wasn't long after the Eden incident.
So really, it's been part of the human race since about 1000 years after it started.
And, in the words of the great Ricky Gervais, "You have the right to be offended, and I have the right to offend you. But no one has the right to never be offended."
Keep it up
As I see it.. if it offends you: don't fucking look at it. BTW: this comment is mature, for the use of the word "fuck"
They're good, and those of us who see and appreciate them? We're better off that we would be without you.
But I grew up in the realm of Sci-Fi and fantasy and the few Cons I went to.
I was exposed at like... a young age to Tasteful furry art *Mostly cause the more raunchy stuff was in neat accordion style organizers to keep way of inocent eyes* and when i mean young... like... 7-8 years of age.
Im not sure where the point is leading to but, Everyone has their own way with Art. And If it is treated as such, People will respect it more. And Rukis, Your Works are really awesome, Even though I am more towards acrylic mediums and sketches with Real pencils, I say you one of My FAVORITE artists here on FA even though you use a Computer.
But Growing up on this stuff, And Watching Heather Brutons work as i grew up, gave me the apreation, and also the readiness for the Adult works.
But If i did have kids, I would Introduce them to the Tame Furry art as they grow up, Because That was how I grew up with this stuff.
** Pardon my shitty spelling errors **
It's bullshit  like this is one reason why I closed my former account and removed all traces of my former self from this site. Furthermore I hear it often; how this is a private site, do as we say or gtfo etc. Allow me to remind those whom preach this that FA was and always has been supported by its members. Even so now it's adds here also made by its members pay the bills and line the pockets of the owner with gold!Â
And anyway to Rukis don't let shit like this ever break your sprit. If FA was ever to make the stupid mistake of throwing down the ban hammer they're many other places to post that would welcome you I'm sure. Also my self and many others will always follow where ever you land.Â
Peace.
I take the same opinion when it comes to magazine covers, or sometimes newspapers. They seem to think that as long as no nipples are seen, the piece is okay to be shown.
Wow, because...nipples are so terrifying for underage people. And if you're younger than 18, it's obvious that you don't know what a nipple is. Duh.
Funny how I turned out all well-adjusted, level-headed, and having realistic expectations in life because of how my mom raised me and most other people my age that i know, the aforementioned disney-only crowd, turned out to be insecure, childish, entitled twats who constantly complain that "it's not fair" that they have to work to get anywhere in life. Gee, I wonder what their basis for comparison is [/shameless fan joke].
The entire argument on censoring things is stupid anyway, because of simple logic.
Option A) If you care enough to police what your kids see, then you're responsible for what they see and don't see, therefore there is no need for the creators of a thing to worry about censoring their stuff.
Option B) If you don't care what your kids see... well then you don't care and the kids will get into whatever they want, therefore there is no need for the creators of a thing to worry about censoring their stuff.
Option C) You care about what your kids see but also explain things to them, ergo they already know about most of this stuff even if they're not allowed to do/watch/participate in it, therefore there is no need for the creators of a thing to worry about censoring their stuff.
No matter how you look at it, there's no need for censorship on anybody's part, just caution on that of the parents. If they're not doing that, they obviously don't care that much. If the kid is sneaking it (I realize that it's impossible to watch every tiny little thing a kid does, I mean, you have to sleep sometime and you can't exactly chain the kid to their bed at night) and has gotten caught, well then I'm sure they'll be punished for it; again, parent's job.
If you're an adult and you find something offensive... um, don't look at it. It's not like someone's got a gun to your head and it's entirely unfair for you to insist that YOUR comfort should be met over that of every other person in the world including the creator. You are not the almighty special snowflake king of the world and you don't matter any more or less than anyone else. You don't get special treatment just because you're a sensitive, entitled bellend. Build a bridge across your ego and get the fuck over yourself.
At no point, in any media, is it the job of the creator to police the content of their work to avoid offending people. This is an impossible task since some of us offend other people merely by existing, to say nothing of what kind of music or artwork we produce. "Viewer and/or parental discretion required" Just hang that sign on the inside of your front door and call it a day, people.
[/rant]
It's interesting to watch my friends bitch and complain about stuff, while they sit on their butts jobless. Out of my main group of 10-20 friends including me, at most 5 of them have a job. Granted we are all are 16/17 years old, but the ones that do have a job are the ones going places.
As for the disney movies, every now and then I watch spongebob, and now that I'm older, I'm realising that it's chock full of innuendos and the such. Kids with a clean mind, dont get it and move on. Kids who do, no way of preventing it now that they have a dirty mind. It truly is not the artists job to be the parent. Which is exactly why they rate shows on television. It's the parents job to monitor that. Otherwise every kids show would have penis' in it, and would be having "health class" lessons, because apparently they are to young to understand about their own bodys. Granted that when they are a certain age, they lissin to nothing you say and just giggle uncontrollibly.
but I gotta say it's funny to me how much drama and arguing it's causing
I Understand what you mean and i'm thinking the same.
to make all that Mature filterthing work, ppl have to do some of the work by themselfs, Artists only can use those tools wich are given to them.
I would like to state in truth and in general art is art no matter how it is designed. If anyone would like to argue with me please do i would love to explain in more full detail. I love history alot and just a while ago i had small arguments over drawings with my GF cause she did not understand. Something in art is someones passion wither it be nude pics, "love" scenes, general poses, background shots, pottery, etc. In history what we now today call "Porn", in the past and some places currently in Europe consider art of drawing of the body, curves and all. But if people really need to feel offended by lets say a nude picture i am sorry its life and just art. It is a imagination and not of your body so in truth i see no offense. All i see is someones great art who sees the curves and the motions of their work. Once i fully understood this concept my artwork started to thrive. I have yet to post anything new and i have started on new art that i have not done before and too some professionals in my local area who saw my first time art was amazed. My first time clay model i made a dragon. The second one was of two lovers which sadly got broken from kids playing around before a picture could be taken when finished. If people are offended i would think they would not bother going through someones site in the first place if it offends. Cause to me if they persist even when they know and don't like it is cause their seeking attention or want to start something cause they do not like it. I am not trying to pick a fight just stating facts and things i know and have seen. I to be honest thing their should be profiles on artists so they can say what their art mostly consist and so if people draw mostly art they are moved into a different section separate from the rest so those who should not/ or wish not will not view the possible work that might offend. I hope all takes care of itself and no future issues a raise again for you and just hang in there.
Your work, adult and otherwise, is amazing, and should not be censored at all.
I didn't know about masterbation till I was 14 but I knew about nudity. My parents may have been strict to some but they did a good job sheltering me.
Ended up not mastering after a guy in my science class told me about masterbation tho lol
Stupid tablet
I swear this journal pops up at least once a year here :T
In fact, I find that I am turned on more by images that do a good job of showing personality and sexuality than by actual pornography. Most of my favorite sexy pictures would be considered clean, if often a little bit suggestive. Amusing when noting that I am far more sexual than most of my friends (if not all of them).
Also, if we really wanted to protect our children from all anatomy, our pets would have to wear pants. |3
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Anomalous_Fox
Anomalous_Fox
"Also, if we really wanted to protect our children from all anatomy, our pets would have to wear pants. |3 "
oh lol where is a like button when you need it
"
I so want to commission something like that now! :P
This is what tends to happen when kids run around an adult space, the parents find out, and more and more are getting up on their moral high horse instead of having a mature conversation with their kids about sex. Its so fucking frustrating, and then there's the entitlement, you said you had underage kids asking for the adult pages of your comics? You wouldn't give those out to anybody, they're how you actually MAKE MONEY with the comics, you tease people with the comic and we buy it for the naughty bits (and the fantastically done covers) Why the Fuck would you give those idiots the pages you keep hidden from us online? It's not fair to you for them to demand free porn, and the sense of entitlement they display is shocking, though they probably get that by watching heir parents bitch enough to get a suggestive image removed from a site bursting with Porn.
now would one of you be so kind as to fetch my cane, I'm going to go sit out on my front porch and scowl at all the young'uns and i need my cane so i can shake it at them while i ramble about "back in my day"
This site is not intended for use by individuals under the age of 13. Accounts created by underage users will be closed without warning (and it will be on the user to provide verification they are of sufficient legal age to continue use of the site).
But I do remember you saying back at Furfright how your feelings about this fandom is that it is a very adult rated fandom and your art shows that so I don't see what the shock is here >_>
...
fuck, I think I might be old >.<
Fifty years ago, our parents were children and knew what many or most sexual acts were. We’d have to go back to our great grandparent’s generations before noticing that, in their childhoods, ‘sex’ was a thing that one likely did not discover until adulthood, but even our great grandparents were forced to grow-up before an age that we call ‘adult’ today. My great grandmother started having children at 14, barely mature enough to reproduce in the first place, and she was married a few years later. We, in today’s world, would call that ‘rape’, but they called it ‘love’ and mother nature told their bodies ‘this is normal’, while we tell them ‘it’s a shame’. We’re designed to be adults before the legal system agrees that we’re adults. Today’s children, that is, those that are under legal age, know as much about sex as the adults of the previous generations. It is statistically true that many of those ‘children’ become sexually active by or before their teens.
Do we blame the media? Do we blame the artists, TV, movies, pop-music, or our neighbor’s kids? Those ‘bad children’ raised by a ‘bad mommy’. Or for once, do we learn to blame ourselves for our mistakes? Who bought the TV and the channels, with little, none, or not enough parental controls? Who left the computer on with access to sexual, violent, drug, drinking, vulgar, or otherwise ‘adult’ content? These things and more are left in the control and responsibility of the parent. But, even then there is no telling what a few hundred children will learn in the company of each other, or from the quiet moaning from beyond the door to ‘mommy’s room’, or hidden in ‘mommy’s dresser drawers’.
And for all the things that we try to hide from our children they are still likely to find out the truth. The truth, which is, that they are sexual and curious creatures… that children will someday grow up and have/want sex. The most dangerous and the most useful information can be found through the internet and even the TV, with real life lessons and education available at the click of a mouse. It is up to the parent to define what is safe and what is not, but parents today are looking for an easy excuse for their mistakes.
What will shielding the children from knowledge do, other than cause them to resent the parent and sneak their way into discovery? What will teaching them nothing do, other than to put them in danger of the very fiends that we hoped to protect them from? The point here is that neither FA nor the artist is at fault when the parent has control over their own computers, and should be explaining sex to their children anyways.
Like you said, children are finding stuff about the subject like it or not and FYI that was so even before the internet. I know I was there. I remember going to friends house were some of them had stash of adult magazine that they had stolen from there parents or were ever. So yea... even before the internet kids had access. IMO we have everything upside down. Sexual material should not be taboo anymore and not be restricted, and parents in general, especially the religious ones should get there head out of the sand and start explaining to there young one what it's all about. To me it's just appalling that children have to learn among them self what it's all about and not from there parents.
Unfortunately the earth was not made in one day and this will not change in one ether. At least there is hope that this might change eventually. In Quebec were I live religion was thrown out of mainstream cause the church insisted in the 70s on how women should behave toward sexuality and for example not to take the pills. From that day people did stop going to church on every weekend and religion started to fall aside. Well believe it or not this is the only occurrence in history were a society got rid of religion without a fight. So much so that to this day there are many scholar around the world that are still studying that phenomena. Unfortunately immigration in Montréal is brining people from outside that do not share our idea about religion and sex. That is why there are some tension in Montreal, but at least religion is no longer intertwined with the government. It will take longer for a change in the laws and the taboo on sex. We came a long way and today I would say that we're less anal about it then in the U.S.
O well, I guess you will just have to bite the bullet and live with it. Anyway if you pull your hair every time someone is obfuscated by your art you will just end up being bald. LOL So I suggest taking it with a grain of salt and just laugh at the strange thinking and reasoning behind those comment.
Anyway I could go on and on but I think I made my point.
Several of the people that I watch repeatedly post the journals to the tune of: Adult artwork is gross; I don't want to see or think about sex; for God's sakes, put mature tags on your FIGURE DRAWING. They'd run screaming from the Statue of David.
So when you take into account that there are adults who want to live in a completely sanitized, no-sex world who nevertheless know what sex is, you can see why the image was considered adult. They don't want to see it and insist on having a whitewashed FA. Whether or not they approve of underage cartoons in sexy poses and scanty clothes, I cannot say. Some may; some may not. Regardless, the rules are made to 'protect' them just as much as children.
The general consensus is that it's easier just to put mature tags on all suspect images. I don't 'get' adult people who are wigged out by sex organs (cartoon drawings of sex organs no less ) in the same way I don't 'get' people who are terrified of spiders, but I accept that human beings are irrational and I'd rather not torment them unnecessarily with the sight of a nipple. If it really upsets them so very much, I just put a mature tag on it and leave it at that.
I think this is crazy but I feel that way about a LOT of human behavior. Putting on a mature tag is very easy and spares these people stress and negativity, so I feel that tagging is the best solution even if I personally don't think the material to be in any way offensive.
In any case, the image was reported, according to the guy who reported it, because they saw minors looking at it. So it actually WAS because of underaged people. Or so they say. But from now on, I'm going to be FAR more guarded in what I tag as general. I thought I was being careful before. I guess not careful enough.
What confuses me is why anyone would think I did this on purpose? It's not like there's a benefit to posting something as 'general' as opposed to 'mature'.
I'm afraid I haven't seen the image in question, so I have no idea. I've uploaded drawings before that I thought were totally innocent, but which people have flipped their shit about. I, too, am very careful. What can I say, people are crazy!!
Psshh, Rukis, we all know you are one of those evil, wicked adult artists who just want to corrupt people. :P
They're just looking for attention. Some may be legit reporting, but if inuendos with everything showing but the parts themselves can be shown on television, so can something as inicent with a head on a lap.
And that last point is most obviously the true reason for all of this!
Now admittedly IMO I think it should be a shared responcibility that material should be marked so that it's not viewed by those who may find such material offensive but it should still be the primary responcibility of the parent/gaurdian to keep watch over what their child sees/does until they deem that child mature enough ta handle such things themselves.
So if they ARE taking things in their own context it's their decision.... cause yer not gonna change anybody's mind about what they'll 'see' in a pic no matter how it's rated anyway! Hell practically anything ya can see or touch either already has been or will be made inta a fetish by somebody :P
As for nymphettes... well, some parents never belive their son/daughter overtook them by two laps on the life's circle. They just can't accept their wrongness and get the hell of the kid's neck with their "sex is bad", "you're gonna go to hell for barely unlegal acts" etc etc..
As for jerks, who come under the censore bar just to yell "you're a deviant!"... get a bloody real life.
That said, laws that make no sense can still get one in heaping bucketloads of trouble.
Could I fake my age, view mature content and go "haha! he's giving him a blowjob! *fapfap" Sure I could, but I'm not. Your an artist with a different form of art and I respect that. The general setting is there for a reason. If people can't get their mind out of the gutter that's their problem. Not yours. Hell, I've seen FAR more explicit content on the television then in your gallery! And public media's rules are TWICE as strict then on here!
Also, people could look at a picture of a guy/gal sucking on a Popsicle and think dirtily about it. Does that mean it should be marked as mature?
And I guess if there was a picture of some guy or gal that is laying their heads on a busty female, it should be mature because OMG THEIR HEAD IS TOUCHING BOOBS, THAT'S MATURE! What if the busty female was their mother and it was just being parental and not sexual in the least bit? Sure, it is subjective to the viewer, but the artist shouldn't feel like they are being pushed into a corner. If the image has genitalia showing, then yes, mature rating. But nothing showing, clothes are on and it could just be taken in as "oh, they are just friends" then why the complaining?
I guess I couldn't have my fursona laying her head on some guy or gal's lap without someone getting all butthurt about it and complain.
This is my opinion. So yeah.
And I know it isn't just kids, it's adults that don't like it too.
What flavors of Go-Gurt brand yogurt in a tube are white? o.o
Also, I didn't get to see the image, but they could have just been playing a friendly game of charades. :v
Any way who care about that... they were two consenting adult. I still cannot believe that it took so much public attention.
A, the U.S.... LOL
That way we could simply watch our Ps & Qs when posting comments elsewhere and not worry about a thing. Basically, let us opt out of being in the same space as the 'no adult stuff' folks?
you draws the fur and muzzles very very good~<3
I think it's also sad that the school systems really try hard to snuff out the very purpose of all art making which is basically to challenge social norm. It's depressing enough that I've been considering on investing in a studio where I can run my own art school for the community.
All because they'd rather watch the football game instead of monitor their kid.
I have my filters here on because I don't want to see porn every day, but your cropped imaged do not bother me.
I just wish there was the option of keyword filters so I could filter out some of these other fetishes that don't have to be classified as adult, but I still don't want to see (such as the fat/preg images). Even then, my first point still stands, and I'd probably still see some slip through, but hopefully not as many....
Sexuality and children is quite a hot topic and yes, it's the parents task to supervise their young when they are online below a certain age. The PC as well as the TV are not a proper replacement to take time to supervise and explain the world to you children but they are often abused in that way. There is much more physical damage done by leaving your children alone and without guidance then by the net being "filled with porn". I'm glad no one can sue nature itself for universal laws like gravity... ^v^
Talking about damage: compared to the life-situation many humans are in every day where children starve, watching their parents and relatives die, being in the middle of a war ect. ect. ect. causes considerably more pain then someone stumbling over an adult image online. Once those problems are solved we might have the time to sit down and talk about the in-dept psychological impact of adult images that is responsible for every kids existance btw, so of course this must be something quite evil. Hello?!? :>
There is no reason to be ashamed, none at all. The only ones who should be ashamed are the people unable to seperate preferances from reason. Never ever has silencing or ignoring a topic brought forth a solution, why should this be different here? If those people want to protect their children from abuse they won't be able to clean out all violence or sexuality from them in their lives, you have to prepare them for what they face in this world so they can draw the lines with reason, not with opinion.
For about 10 years now, my "Crusade" has been:
YES there SHOULD be programming / Sights / whatever for children...BUT I AM 49 Years OLD! where is there a sight where *I* can go, where my intelligence is not insulted?
The Fandom is strewn with what you describe... (Example: Scar in bondage with Simba standing over him and both have a wonderful "I'm really LIKING this" mile on their face, as if teh artist is saying..see I never thought of this in anything but a PC manner)
Because you write or DRAW something not PC, does not mean YOU are not PC (otherwise George Lucas obviously wants to be emperor of the Universe)
I am quite sick of always being treated like a 6 year old because a 6 year old MIGHT see something (where they likely have no business being)
Site Admin and others often side "Law Suits" but can never point to even one person who has ACTUALLY had action taken against them (the worst you get is a nasty gram)
So Bravo to you Rukis....
But they asked me to take it down, not re-rate it. So. . . that's what I've done.
--JuV<3
And if yes, then why did you decide not to upload it anymore?
I just don't know. Best not to tempt fate, I figure.
http://images.wikia.com/fantasia/pt....._Belvedere.jpg
Much respect!
I have had people get in my face verbally because artwork I drew wasn't to their taste, her boobs aren't big enough, wrong junk on the man, etc.
It isn't the community fault, or the rules, but admin that should have judged between what IS a user complaining and abusing the trouble ticket system to what is a legitimate concern since general SHOULD remain JUST general.
If in doubt rate it higher, it's what I do and with the internet the higher the rating the more views any ways. ;)
Most art based sites have defined what is Adult, Mature and General but yes these definitions often come down to preference of the website owners as well as where the server is located.
OR Admins/Moderators preference, this was the problem with DA with too many admins not fully understanding the rules they enforce such as a naked woman with her legs open with her bits the focus of the photo was art but a nude man walking in a forest was raunchy porn apparently... Came down to an admin that likes naked girls and doesn't want to see naked men instead of the rules of the website.
:|
If any one makes you ashamed for your art... Seriously have no idea how scary some adult archives are because you're stuff is sane and well drawn! ;)
If they do not understand, that's their problem, not yours.
And the issue with minors viewing porn has been a moot issue several years ago. It's another ratified law thanks to the EFF and other Internet activists. Almost nobody gets arrested for viewing porn; there's even a large market for it. Sites get paid with page views.
And you really can't identify anyone's age with an IP address. Only stupid people get stopped by the "enter in your age" form, and don't understand how to turn on mature images in galleries like FA.
I remember that even searching in for "sonic" and "tails" in Google Image Search would display the first result as an image of Sonic fucking Tails on someone's blog post.
You really can't help or predict the nature of the Internet.
I love this site for the simple fact that I have a variety of styles to watch and commission but I dunno if my gallery will grow much if the rules are as straight as a gay man trying to decide if he finds a transvestite attractive or not.
And on the topic of art, when is something considered a 'tasteful nude?' and does a little blood mark it as mature (since it says blood and gore)? I am pretty sure children get their knees scrapped and lose baby teeth and bleed but apparently any blood at all could be possibly needed to be marked mature if a mod wanted. Or they can rule a tasteful nude to be sexual. The rules on this site need a lot of clearing up :I
:I I don't even know what's art anymore and what's porn from the view point of this site.. it's suppose to have SFW qualities yet it features NSFW material (porn not just mature/tasteful nudity). It shouldn't be allowed viewable at work or school you aren't there to look at furry art you're there to get an education or money to live off of. If they're so worried about avatars or anything on this site begin NSFW then have a FILTER for it, or clarify the rule set at least.
More than worth it to not have the people looking over your work to hire you stumble on porn or creepy comments on your picture.
I also have no problem with him seeing nudes, I think it´s part of learning how the body is... it´s only the adults who see those things as sexual stuff.
He also knows I draw adult stuff and he cant see everything I draw, and is ok with it ^^.
I visited, and they became furious when he saw a picture on my computer of two furries LAYING on each other, and assumed it was sexual. It was not, in any intention of the artist, supposed to be a sexual pose. Clothing and everything was there; it was a romantic shot sure, but no kissing even.
However, due to their parenting, his behavior, and assumptions made as a result of these factors, I was yelled at for showing such vulgar acts to a sex crazed ten year old
So yeah: I'm with you on this, Rukis. "Adult" should mean adult: willing to deal with complicated matters, willing to admit not knowing everything, willing to accept accountability. Adult does not mean fleeing into oversimplification, fearfully refusing any notion of uncertainty, or relentlessly refusing accountability.
[1] In FurAffinity's case, and to a slightly lesser degree in the case of the US Congress, the rules are also written by morons, which increases the confusion.
First off it comes with the territory. You're one of the most popular artists on this site, hence you are going to get more praise _and_ more hate than the less popular folks in general.
Second, you've admitted in the past to making things just barely general for shock value, such as here http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5955295/ That kind of takes away my pity on the matter. It doesn't make sense to do something risque to see if you can get away with it and then be upset because it caused commotion.
Third, I have to say that a "mature" filter is like a pg-13 to R kind of rating window. It's not erotic, but it's not exactly pure. Something of this suggestiveness would certainly not get a G rating on television, but it's not going to be XXX either. It's that sex scene that only shows their backs and the blanket basically.
Finally, I'm not interested in having a huge debate. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me, but I'm more than likely not going to be defending the points from twenty different people.
Secondly, whether or not you choose to believe me, I really DON'T think pieces like this one, or that one, are mature. I see more damaging material on SVU, at 4 in the afternoon, when anyone of any age can view it. Children can watch tv shows about incestuous, underage rape, but a picture of two characters who *might* be having sex is damaging?
I don't get it.
Excellent post Rukis. So often the psuedo moralist (the ones who choose to be offfended about anything and everything) tend to overtide what little commonsense there is.
They are the people who will walk though museums and complain about the old masters because they can see a boobie, a vulva, or even worse a penis.
They are forever cursed with never being statisfied that their standards are upheld because their standards are a continious movable feast towards some unobtainable value where all are clothed in formless robes.
Take care
Marc
The internet is a scary place, and somewhere on it there is going to be pornography because it is a ubiquitous and immortal part of human culture. GET OVER IT! If you can't handle adult themes then keeping it from your eyes is YOUR problem! We do all we can to keep it away from kids, but if they're your kids they're your responsibility!
And why is everyone so freaked out about sex but not freaked out by violence, abuse, hate, and the like? Why is it that if you show a boob it's R-rated but if you show a boob getting blown off it's PG-13?
... anyways, Rukis, you could just mark all your artwork as Mature or adult or whatever and then you wouldn't have to worry about breaking rules. And even if an underage person got to your adult rated artwork it wouldn't be your fault.
I LOVE your artwork and I wish for you to stay on FA.
Expect a lot of 15-17 year old Finnish kids buying your comics with their fancy credit cards.
They can actually have those things.
But he did show lot of maturity to his parents, so they didn't see a problem in it.
Mature - "something" showing.
Adult - youre doing "something" with set shown "something".
General - anything else. Suggestive or not.
Meh. Im 20 and couldn't care less about what minors or anyone else for that matter do. And naughty or not, I love art and many artists.
Age never made people, maturity did.
I don't like vore, therefor I don't click thumbnails that say that... <- Example.
For what it's worth, I'm sorry for you troubles. You can clearly see through your writing that you're thoughts come from hours of reflection.
Throughout a child's life you should educate him/her and prepare them for the REAL world. Not wait till his 16 to finally have "that talk"
I, personally, since I was young I've never had filters up my computer and I always had the freedom to see what I saw fit, and I find my parents are great.
I would not have a problem with my teenager watching mature and adult content if he had the correct responsibility and mature intelligence. Like it was said, he WILL find out sooner or later.
It's not suddenly when you turn 18 that you from night to day receive that amount of responsibility, mind and knowledge. I find that way worse, actually.
That's my view on a bit of parenting, though, sorry if I offended anyone but like I just said, it's my view.
I applaud your ability to finish a post with a brilliant one liner. It's a sad state of affairs, isn't it?
Maybe they could switch it in a few months, after August. That would be a nice change.
(I posted this on your comment before I saw this journal, hope you don't mind the double post.)
To add, I hate how kids are these days. It seems like they are just trying to ruin things, because it's what they do. I see it everywhere and it makes me sad. Of course, adults can ruin stuff too. I guess, in the end, there will always be that one person.
It is true that I did know what was going on in that picture, but that is because I know what all of that stuff is. I even catch dirty messages in kid movies and stuff. I didn't know it was dirty when I was younger, but now that I'm more educated I know that it is(whether the show meant it or not). Really though, I'm a dirty minded teen.
I enjoy your art, the stuff I can see. If you do decide to post all your work under the mature button, then I'll be sad but at least I only have to wait a short time to see it again.
I wish i could censor it my self bit it is not possible! I would give anything to do it!
Uh yeah actually it is exceptionally easy. Here are a few programs for the PC her is how to do it on the TV.
Woah woah woah! You are just good with technology this is very complex!
But you said you wold do anything, and to be honest it is absurdly simple. I know how to do it despite the fact have no intent to do so
I just do not think I could ever figure it out.
Then shut up about it, you say you would do anything but you will not even take 30 minutes to learn new tech meaning you honestly do not give a fuck now do you?
So yeah to be honest it is this kind of person or the kind of guy that visits a site called "love the cock" and then gets mad it is all gay. You can not reason with people like this, they can not grasp basic logic
"Not recommended for small children or big babies."
You can't please everyone. What you can and should do is draw what you like to draw. You have every right to draw adult themes if you like it, and when it comes to the sexual content you are one of the best. Likewise, everyone has a right to view it, and they also have a perfect right and personal responsibility to not view it if it's something that offends them. There's no reason for you to censor your artwork; the viewers can censor what they do and don't want to view.
There's no way you can totally eliminate underage people from seeing your artwork, and the same goes for any other adult-themed artist. Kids and young teens will always find a way to find the things they are curious about; I certainly did when I was young back in the days when porn only came in magazines. No matter how much adults want to sugar coat the world with rainbows and sunshine for the little kiddes, at some point and usually due to their natural curiosity the kids are going to be exposed to and learn about nudity, the fun bits of anatomy, sex, reproduction, swear words, and also the negative things like STDs, drugs, prostitution, etc. The more they learn about the good side of it the better off they'll be, and the more they learn about the bad side of it the better they'll be able to avoid those things. Parents/adults who shield kids from every eyebrow-raising thing in the world are doing nothing more than maintaining their ignorance.