Ventilation>vision>accuracy

I don't think builders sit down one day and decide to make fursuit heads that you can't see anything in, they are just ignorant to the problem.

Definitely. I see suits without mouths, and I wounder why someone took the time to put something together without ventilation.

I wish you were around to tell me that when I was making my first suit! I don't know why it seemed like a good idea to cover a kig style mask with fur and a straw sized hole for a mouth. It's just not knowing any better.

Really depends what type of suit it is (for me at least).

If its a realistic suit I don't mind sacrificing a little comfort for looks but for a toony or semi toony suit I'd much rather have the comfort.

But being able to breathe properly, not getting headaches from trying to see and being able to wear the suit comfortable for a decent duration are very important things for me.

Comfort means you can wear it longer, but you still want it to look good, you know?

I'm actually talking to my suit maker about remaking my head for better breathing and site. My suit would be a lot better with tear duct eyes then just normal eyes (my eyes are pure blank white, no iris or pupil. It's looking through a bedsheet) Plus, more room in the head for less smooshed nose. I adore my suit though. I really do.

I wanna be able to see decently, but still keep a creative and well looking outside of the head. (love my english there)

Did I even answer your question? I don't know XD

My suit:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3469827/

I prefer comfort. A friend has a beautiful full suit by a well known maker, but they complain that the vision is terrible.

Always, always comfort and safety before anything else. A creative costume maker should be expected to use their skills to devise a way to make even a difficult design functional as a wearable item. It's nice that Joe Shmoe can deal with not being able to see properly and/or wear it for more than 15 minutes before overheating, but that's not an acceptable standard and to encourage form over function just teaches newcomers to the hobby that its awwwwright for certain types of techniques to be sub-par ("foam heads are always hot!", "it's normal that tearduct vision sucks!", etc). It doesn't have to be that way!

I mean... this is a professionally-built costume but just look at this guy http://jthreee.files.wordpress.com/.....1/dsc09772.jpg He's true to the character and because of clever use of painted vision screens on his nose he's likely to be comfortable to wear, too.

I think a fursuit should be built to have a balance of both.

This.

From the point of view of a forty-something gray muzzle: comfort and safety will trump 'knock your socks off' style in my book every time. Creating a 3D character from 2D drawings will always mean that there will be slight to moderate differences in your reference art and a fursuit produced from it.

I'd much rather have a good approximation of my character and a suit that I can wear and move around in safely.

Thanks for asking!

I'd prefer balance.
It's nice to have the comfort, but also nice to be able to "see and know" at first glance instead of "who is that?".

thankfully i love huge eyes and huge expressive mouths so i think i'm in the safe zone. however i think a lot of people would be willing to sacrifice a little visual aspect to be comfortable. i can almost guarantee its a lot more fun to be able to jump around and be able to see well and breathe easier than have to stand or sit in a corner because its too hard for you to see and breath to have fun. i guess maybe if they wanted their eyes further apart maybe you could install tear ducts that match the fur color closer into middle of the head for a little extra vision. i dont know how well that would work though.

A good balance. :)

I will sacrifice SOME comfort vision-wise, if I otherwise like the look. And even then, only if the eyes are a bit far apart. One of my favorite suits I've ever had the pleasure of wearing had the eyes a smidge too far apart. It made me all dizzy and seeing double after I took it off. But I still dream of owning that suit when he finally retires it.

Ventilation and weight and such... no way. You find a way to keep me from dying of heat stroke or I'm not paying a dime for it.

Comfort is VERY important to me. If it isn't comfy, I will be miserable wearing it. The one suit head I've commissioned was WAY too tight, and actually hurt to wear. I had to fix it so I could wear it. I can sacrificed a bit of sight, as long as I can at least see well out of one eye.

This this this. I own one head that's really quite great looking, but it is far too tight and wearing it for more than 5 minutes gives me a headache. I dread wearing it, and it's because of the tightness that I am more than likely just going to sell it.

Oh well, you win some you lose some. (It was a pre-made, but their measurements of what the head could fit was inaccurate).

Depending on how it's made, it's not hard to make it bigger :) I just cut mine up the back and sewed in a strip of fur... Now I LOVE wearing it :)

Vision wins ALL the way. I have a couple of heads by other builders and vision is just... awful. To have to constantly bob my head back and forth to see out of one eye and then the other from a professional builder is not good, to say the least. x_x I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's unacceptable, but it definitely does limit how much I wear the costume. I always weigh the options before suiting up- do I want to suffer the extremely tight fitting everything and poor vision just to be cute for an hour or two?
Another head I have, the vision is just literally impossible. I paid way too much, it fell apart right out of the box. I feel really stupid for buying it, and even stupider for not trying to return it or something... I'd feel bad for even selling it for more than like fifty bucks, it's in that poor a condition. x_x

I feel like you and I are some of the only builders actually worried about wearability of the costume. ^_^;;
The only costume head I've owned that was actually really comfortable, breathable, and with great vision was made by  madefuryou Pretty sad I had to sell it so soon after getting it, it was everything I hoped it would be, and restored my faith in fursuit builders as a whole.

I've got some criticism for the spacing of Darth Blitz's eyes, and while I do think a more elegant solution probably could have been found and I will be working on figuring that out next time, I found that was the best way to ensure the wearer would have a clear field of vision. If the wearer doesn't feel safe in their costume, it becomes a very expensive paperweight. ^_^;

Did you at least post an artist's beware for that one fursuit maker? Or even a fursuit review? That's atrocious and you could prevent other people from suffering the same fate as you...

I posted a review for it, but I fear I was too "nice" because I'm friends with the maker, and I was still in the giddy "yay new fursuit" stage. It didn't warrant a beware.

If it was a realistic suit, I might be willing to sacrifice a small amount of comfort/vision/etc. for the realistic look, but to the point where I would be blind and/or suffocating? Hell no! As far as toony goes, ventilation is huge for me especially. Really, I'd prefer to spend a lot of time in a comfortable suit, than just a short amount of time in a gorgeous suit because it just wasn't wearable.

If I'm going for realism, I'm willing to sacrifice SOME comfort. I definitely cannot have tightness- f* that-- but breathability lacking is somewhat doable since I'll most likely be inside anyway, and some sight loss is okay because if it's a realistic suit, you're probably not going to be that active anyway (assuming you play a character).

I really think there are some creative solutions that compromise for everything. We just need to find them and implement them a little better.

I have one toony suit, foam-based, that is through-eyes vision but due to tightness it's pretty useless. No matter how good my vision is, it doesn't matter if I feel like a migraine is coming on after 5 minutes of wearing it. It looks great though, and props to the maker for that.

I have one resin-based head, and it is a realistic suit. It's narrow, and slightly uncomfortable, but not enough to make the mask unpleasant to wear. The sight is great straight-on, but peripheral-wise it's the worst I've ever had, and I absolutely need a handler any time I go outside with it.
I can still function okay, but it's too easy to be blindsighted by random things that don't make sense (especially streetlights, and the way some things reflect weirdly).
Indoor, it's a little more manageable. It is tearduct vision. I think these are the sorts of compromises that are okay to make. Yes, it's slightly uncomfortable, but it looks great and I can still wear it for a few hours without too many downsides.

My last mask is semi-realistic, balaclava based. Tearduct vision. Very comfortable, best sight I've ever had. Definitely the best head I've owned so far, in terms of everything matching up and "just working". Peripheral vision leaves a lot to be desired, but this is the case with any type of suit. It's still better than my other suits, for what it's worth.

I think making eye-holes bigger is a good plan. The only problems with this, is it's harder to blend in to the head. I've noticed some makers will make mesh portions larger, and just have black fur around the area so it blends in easier. I wonder though if other colored mesh types exist.
I know for some halloween masks, they don't use mesh, but a type of cloth. Maybe this would work better for fursuits when putting vision in areas that are not actually where the animal's eyes are. Another method I've seen used is vision through the neck. This would drastically alter how fursuit heads are made today, but the vision has its own set of pros and cons.

I have a realistic godzilla mask with vision through the neck. It's done by just having random gashes in the neck not filled with anything, that use visual illusion to make the gashes unnoticeable. This gives a greater overall feel of vision, but is obstructed in random places due to random folds of skin.

I have a creature reacher werewolf with vision through the neck also, and for it, it is a large hole that is covered with long hair/mane. I dislike this greatly because if you move the hair too much, everyone can see your eyes, but your vision is obstructed by so much hair, you really can't get out of moving it out of the way (plus it's just ingrained habit to move hair out of your face anyway!). Maybe there's some type of system for making that work better. I haven't worn this costume for longer than about 20 minutes anyway as it didn't fit properly and would not stay on.


Overall, I really think the end decision on what compromises should be made should depend on the end-purpose of the suit.
As I mentioned earlier, if I'm not going to be very active in suit, or I will always be with a handler, than sacrifice in comfort/vision for better looks would be very doable and likely welcome.

However, if the purpose of the suit was to go out into town with it, be active, do more than just pose for pictures-- then the end-product would need to be comfortable and have good sight. And in that, sacrifice in suit fashion/looks/realism is welcome.

I own two fursuitheads, both made by myself... one is a fullfoam head with tearductvision and because I couldn't find the right materials ( like mesh or buckram ) I used something different and the vision just sucks... it's very blurry and maybe just like 10 % of the normal vision... the only pro for the vision of the fullfoamhead is, that I'm able to see through the jaw too, so I totally know what is directly in front of me, like stairs, little children and such... too bad that this fullfoamhead is now too tight and gives me headaches after 5 minutes wearing it... v_v I have to rebuild this head...

the second one is based on a resinbase from DreamVisionCreations and I added toony-eyes on this one... it is a great difference too my old foam head because I can't see through the jaw and just nearly fell down after the first steps because I couldn't see some stairs... but I got used to the different vision and was getting more comfortable in the resinhead... plus it's definitely cooler than the foam head... I could go outside at around 25°C like 2 hours before getting it off the first time for drinking...with the foamhead at this temperature outside it wasn't even possible for 10 minutes...

both suitheads are semi-realistic and have both their advantages and disadvantages... but it's different if someone build it by himself ( he can only blame himself then because he is responsible for every mistake on the head ) or if a professional fursuitbuilder made the head... it is always easier to blame other people for what they have done...you always have to give up a little of comfort and vision...

Comfort over everything for me. I'd rather have my characters look less than their art. I've seen friends with heads PERFECTLY like their art...but the quality and comfort of the heads was awful. Their reasoning is that a fursuit head is a work of art so should be treated extremely carefully. I disagree with that strongly. I'm going to entertain crowds in my suit and nothing better fall off if a child pulls my nose or an ear. Heck, I lift my suit heads by the ears. Most of my heads are by Jill or you and I can tell a huge difference in wearability...Jill's and yours I can wear for hours and not get hot, the ventilation is superb, the heads don't push down on my nose, they're lightweight (Jill's and Toxi a little more than Oh, but barely ;)).
Then I have another head which is made out of very heavy foam. Comfort is WAY less and I find myself only wearing her to events where I know I can change quickly. It's a lovely looking head and many people love that suit best of all of mine....but it's far less lovely to wear. Fun is an important aspect in "delivering" a cool performance. If your head is a pain to wear, it'll show.

People seem to be getting stuck into a certain 'look' for fursuits, it must look exactly like [enter one piece of art here]. I don't often see people consider the fact they might want to wear it for hours on end.

i completely agree with you!

Fursuits are made for performance and jumping around and having fun. If you're afraid to have fun in your suit because it might be damaged then you probably shouldn't have gotten a fursuit! What's the point of it if you just put it on to sit down and sweat and be miserable, right?

It's all about balance.
If something looks amazing, but is really uncomfortable, I won't wear it.
If something is really comfy, but looks terrible, I won't wear it.

Personally, though, I'll put up with some discomfort to wear a great looking suit.
But I'd really rather not wear a derpy looking suit, no matter how comfy it is!

Yeah I go for comfort and vision first, work out how to make the thing look good around that
Quietly, the latest suit i made for myself has _rediculously_ good vision >.<

but yeah, this is more or less the design process for my fursuit heads:
- how will it fit?
- how will you see?
- how will you breathe?
- how will you put it on and take it off?
- ... ok... now, what's it going to look like?

I have to agree with comfort and vision, but I can understand some people wanting a really sharp looking outside to come first...

This suit is one of there characters, in some cases it may BE themself, and that's important. Though how happy will they be with having an outfit that looks like themselves but not be able to wear it safely and effectively? I suspect that most wouldn't be to happy in the long run.

I'd rather have decent vision (At least as good as a motorcycle helm, which basically means nothing to the sides), and definitely decent ventilation (So I could stay in suit longer) than having things be "Perfect" on the exterior.

I think with good communication a happy balance between the two could be found.

I remember at the Jaxfurs picnic when someone arrived on there motorcycle wearing his fursuit head, heh. He said it basically worked for him like a motorcycle helmet, and it looks pretty fun going down the road.

When a choice must be made, I choose function over fashion... though, if we're being honest, I'd rather have both.

I definitely think ventilation is the number one priority, vision second, and visual accuracy third. Given that, ideally I like a good balance. I want something that looks good, has good ventilation, and has good vision- but if I have to sacrifice a bit of vision to make the suit go from looking good to looking incredible, that's a good trade. Now, if you totally eradicate the vision or make it nearly impossible to see- then that is NOT a good trade at all. It's all about balancing things out the best you can, knowing what top priority is for the person getting the suit, and presenting them with options. :)