Lol, at first glance I thought you got maced in the face.

MY EYES

Loss of porn is a terrible thing I remember when I lost my archive that I had been building and sorting and organizing for 7 years.

I bet the folder of porn might've been what caused it to lag.

Like all your 120 Gigs of it.

My mac battery is so dead, it doesn't even register as being there. Just... dead. So all I have to do it touch the power cable, and it dies instantly.

hah mine's approaching that point; it won't last an hour without the plug.

At least it'll still work. My iPod with a quarter-dead screen is starting to make the hard-drive death rattle I've been dreading. Soon it'll only work plugged in, and then only on it's back, and then, one day... it just won't wake up at all. Then I'll be pissed because I don't have however-many hundreds of dollars a new one will cost.

sure sounds great owning mac products! i can buy AND replace my creative mp3 player's battery for $11. Or even put in a newer, bigger harddrive. But yah...mac's are totally worth the-

damnit, I doing one of THOSE posts. god I'm better than that. not so much that I'm going to delete what I've already typed, but just enough that I'll send it without finishing my thought.

Don't you know, "macs don't get viruses".

At least, that's what your average mac enthusiast would say.

More than likely it wasnt a virus. Quirky things happen to hardware, and quirky things happen to software code on said hardware.

The avg mac enthusiast says it because its generally true.

Being a PC loving, Mac hating asshole, I suggest go to PC!!

In all seriousness, it has been a long time since anything has gone wrong with my computer. Every week I run a scan for Spyware, adware, etc., disk cleanup and a disk defrag. Keeps efficiency up, and sometimes I get more disk space. I don't know if you can do that on Mac (and i don't care if you can) but I know it helps fr PC. When was the last time you did such things?

I have to be the Machating idiot too.
Sorry. I appologise in advance.

Get a real PC. Srsly.

Macs are as real as PCs get. Windows machines now fall under the class of customizable game rigs. Since they are better at that than Macs. This a case where the software maker didn't look at the OS specs close enough and got sloppy. It happens on all platforms. As for you PC and Mac haters. You got competition. Its called Sun loyalist. As in Sun Micro Systems. On the other hand, you guys that hate each should just have it out with a gun. I run both platforms and only have problems when a company doesn't listen to the OS maker or I just simply find a way to run something too far beyond spec. Hardware reinforcement can only go so far and limited by driver version.

Too bad I'm running linux then.

If I had a nickel for every time a linux apologist doesn't realize that macs are basically linux/unix under the hood...

Well he did mean a Linux PC not Mac luv *pats shoulder reassuringly*

Let me just wrap this up quickly with a quick statement that I am not a random Mac basher that thinks NTFS and the Win32 kernel is the SHIZZ.
Macs are made for people that want to use a PC. It is built to be tard proof.
Also, shiny and pretty for the average FAG in every single person.

But adding shiny, tardproof, fancy and universal (every box is the same), the system (since we're talking about the OS here) becomes unstable (nobody can prove me that a Mac is 100% stable), buggy, unsecure, full of unoptimised code and random sh~t.

Also, the MacOS is NOT the missing link in photography, video editing OR music.

The Mac is perfect for somebody that just wants to work and brag to his friends how pretty his Mac is. Anybody who knows anything about any form of electronics will not have a Mac. He will kick what his mummy bought him and buy something that has some more juice in it.

Also, I just can't wait the amount of flame I'm gonna receive from Mac-tards in just a few hours.

From which almost none will be counter-argumentative of everything I just said.

I think you're making a bad case for anyone who takes sides as hard as you are right now. People who say macs are for tards are probably pretty closed-minded about what's out there, and end up looking just as bad as the fanatics they think they're better than.

I have experience with most operating systems, which would include every flavor of windows that's been out in the past decade and a half, the last few OS X variants, unix, and a few variants of linux. Can you argue that a linux machine is somehow the end all platform for everyone out there? Maybe if you never want to play games, or edit video, or do pretty much anything at all without having to install tons of software on top of the base installation. And what are your options for creative work, GIMP? I'm sorry, but the software selection for linux, outside of server utilities, is a joke. To even use a wacom tablet requires you dip into 3rd party drivers. I can stand behind linux to a point, but there's no denying that it's made for geeks.

When you build a system and put linux on it, you put up with a plethora of problems that need to be addressed. If you're not a linux geek, then you don't have much in the way of help, you had better know what you're doing. It is king for stability and for being a web/file server, and if you revel in the fact that your space heater can operate 24/7/365.

If you buy a mac, you put up with the fact that it's not as stable as a barebones, stripped down install of debian. You also pay a premium for the engineering and software that comes with it. One could argue that you get what you pay for, which is probably what makes most linux geeks scoff. Why pay more for something that does what you need it to, when you could scrape together the parts yourself, and use a free operating system with free software? Something like that can't be explained, just like I can't explain why someone would want to get an ipod, when there's plenty of cheaper options out there. Under the hood you do still have unix (Leopard is UNIX 03 certified), and for the bash geek who wants full control, the terminal is a click away. It is the platform of choice for video editing and compositing, if you think otherwise then you probably don't do much of it.

If you have a windows box that you either built yourself, or bought from a vendor, then I'm sorry. That's the worst of both worlds. Easy to use, but relatively unstable; the target for hackers, viruses and malware. Look forward to activation/serial number woes/genuine advantage, because it's the last consumer OS out there that actually requires it. Not the worst thing out there, but definitely not the choice of an informed individual. Games are the only reason to brave that OS (and probably the only reason it'll always be around), but it's a lot like frequenting to a seedy brothel for your kicks.

There is no perfect OS as there will never be a perfect human being. We all remember the "pick two out of three" options you get with everything else.

I've had my share of experiences with different Windows, Linux and UNIX flavors as well. My job and my college requires lots of so I can't be left behind. I cannot argue that linux is the end platform and nobody can. Far from it. I use Windows as a secondary platform in a virtual machine to get the most out of my OS.

Linux, thankfully, came a long way from being the OS that everybody hates 'cause of the enormous amounts of tinkering needed to make it actually useful (or work without kernel panics for that matter). Most still look at it that way, but those are the people that have a problem understanding why you are better off pressing "Start - Shut down" rather then unplugging the PC yourself. Watching the newer distributions of linux based off Debian; namely Ubuntu, its variants and forks like Mint, such flavors became quite the wanted OS for a desktop OS. Simple, works, stable.
So, not I do not think that a linux-box is just a heater under the stairs for the modern day housewife. My mother is a housewife and she's been riding Xubuntu on a 10 year old tin can for a year now. Bare install.

As for the "premium software" part. No. I don't believe that it is. Apple tends to... exaggerate when it comes to their OS a lot. Too much, in fact. Which works for them, actually. They yell everywhere they can how their OS is the missing link in photography, video editing, music, even the regular things such as wifi. Which makes everybody else a bit ticked off. It's like buying somebody's lemons, making lemonade and shouting out (while selling the lemonade on the same street) that your lemonade is the best there is and nobody has a lemonade so cool and refreshing. Linux may not have video, audio and graphical editing tools as a MacOS does, but it is not out of competition against Windows tools. Adobe is plenty powerful in that aspect and so is Corel. The only difference is; a Mac is simpler to use. Which, again, I don't understand. If you're a professional, you'd rather be using a more complex tool that is harder to use but get the work done. I mean, that's how it usually works, doesn't it? Real life example: easy to drive a bike, but it doesn't get you as far as a plane that is pretty damn complex to drive?
Simple is always nice, but complex is more.
And more on the shouting business that Apple does; everything they claim that their Macs can do, every other PC can do. Everything. From "instantly connect to any wireless access point!" to "close your lid; it hybernates; open the lit, it resumes!".

... the terminal is one click away? Seriously, I fear that option. You have a system that is built especially to be used by a user from the front end and you start tinkering with the command line. Some bad thoughts of kernel panics just appeared in my mind and it made me shudder.

In the end, however, I have to thank you 'cause you're the first person I had a fairly complex conversation which included legitimate arguments about OSes and such. So, thank you, a lot.

Hopefully you'll trust me when I say that there just isn't anything adobe makes that compares to final cut studio. The same can also be said about shake, which is the compositing software of choice, and is apple software that was picked up from a smaller startup. More big films are composited in shake than pretty much anything out there. Is this because macs are better? No, but it makes a lot of sense to have a mac for that software. A studio usually has a few nickels to rub together to make sure they have the right software. And if there's something I really need to do with windows, I can run it via bootcamp natively, or use a vm like vmware fusion, and use any OS I want.

I don't think you need to be afraid of terminal, using it doesn't "cause kernel panics" or anything. I actually prefer it for a lot of tasks that are quicker to perform in bash.

I will trust you for that, 'cause I indeed never did work much with these programs. A designer studio would have both Macs and PCs, I'm sure, as everyone always tries to get the best of everything to work with. It's how business goes, as always.
Also, why buy a Mac when you can run MacOS on any PC too? Another thing to consider. Not for a business, of course, but for home-use.

I have bad experiences with Ubuntu, which is what it is. The terminal is something that can cause problems 'cause the whole distro was made primarily for frontend use. Even tho you CAN get to the terminal REALLY easy, but it's not something you might WANT to. I said "kernel panics" just as a comical reference. You can seriously break the system by doing anything fairly complex.

I guess the reason I don't run OS X on a PC is because I've already been down the custom PC road, and it just isn't worth it for me anymore. Then there's the issue of finding drivers, or worse yet buggy hacked drivers... And that completely negates the stability concern.

I can afford to spend a little more for the real deal, and I haven't been disappointed yet. It's a quiet setup that's powerful, and has a great hardware warranty. Why would I go to the trouble to get some frankenstein to run the OS, if I can avoid all that?

Terminal is for people that prefer it, and know what they need to get done. If a person is afraid of messing up their system, then Linux, or OS X terminal probably isn't for them. And for the record, I don't install a GUI on Linux distros I use, so my experience with Linux is via commandline, usually remotely. I'd say I'm comfortable with that level of interaction, those that have coached me in the past say that there's no other way to run a server, especially concerning stability.

I understand you do get a quiet setup and a great warranty, but what do you do when you want to upgrade? Or when you want to change just one part that died? You take it to a shop. If you want an upgrade, you buy a new one. Not my idea of great money spending.

Yes, terminal is for people who prefer it. But I wouldn't prefer it on a Mac. It's not a server. It's a desktop.

GUI and server are two words that should never be in the same sentence.

If I want to upgrade? My power mac has already been upgraded in a few different ways. I put 12GB of ECC ram into it a few months ago, and threw a few new hard drives in it. The only part I wouldn't upgrade is the processors, but that would be pretty involved considering they're peltier water cooled. Are you sure it's a good idea to be against something that you're not very familiar with in the first place?

For server things, I'd get the server variant of Leopard, along with a rackmount x-serve. It's not desktop oriented, but I guess that's the point? Costs more for server-grade gear, but you'll see that across the board for any rackmount system, SAS drives will really bite you in the wallet.

Question is, how much DID the 12 gigs of ECC cost you?

So you would, despite the viruses happening to Leopard and the recent under-two-minutes hacking, use a Leopard as a server distribution? Also, you would still use a MacOS as a server distribution even tho we did conclude that linux is still the thing to use for servers? Also, Macs would cost more as a server-built systems, wouldn't they? Apart from the SAS drives which cost more then my liver and kidneys combined no matter what system you take.

The ram was a little more than $300.

And what's this virus you speak of? There are 0 mac viruses in the wild right now, any and all exploits have been in bounty hunter geek contests, in which the reward is an incentive for them to work with the hacker to patch the vulnerability. Fixing vulnerabilities does not eaqual virus outbreak. Even Linux has vulnerabilities crop up on a regular basis, but the difference between Linux/mac and windows, is that windows vulnerabilities aren't taken care of before they're exploited in the form of Trojans, worms, and adware. The very nature of Linux/Unix/Darwin's security foundation ensures that doing damage to the system is very dufficult, if not nearly impossible. Why do you think theoretical mac vulnerabilities make the news, and windows viruses are commonplace? You /can/ break into the Fort Knox that is Unix, but why sweat it when the quickymart windows OS is so much easier, and more commonly used?

Not even the slightest concern for leopard server, all the vulnerabilities found recently in OS X are related to safari plugins visiting a malicious site, and servers don't browse the internet. Did I mention the vulnerabilities have yet to actually show up anywhere, and are patched anyway? I can't count how many times windows has been hacked, even in personal experiences it has happened more times than it should to someone who is generally very careful. Look at the hundreds of thousands of windows servers that got hacked this week alone.

Would an x-serve be more expensive? Actually, as of several months ago when I did some shopping, not at all. As for l

For 12 gigs of ECC RAM you payed a little more then $300? Was that a per-gig deal or per cookie-of-ram deal? Or the whole deal? 'Cause I find it hard to believe. Also, what brand? Specificly for Macs or...?

Combining the two topics of security and servers, there's still more linux and unix servers out there then OS X driven servers. And not just looking at server, looking at the overall picture of MacOS vs. Any OS. Why does Mac, as awsome as it is, and as underpriced as it is, apparently, have less of a market share then Windows (not including unix and linux)? And, since their hardware is so superior and custom built to be perfectly fit, one component perfect for each other, why isn't it used more?
6 - 10 % market share is pretty pathetic for a piece of hardware that should be considered the holy grail which runs the source code of Jesus himself.

Apple came a long way from being a company that stands on its own two feet, from the (and I do mean this, wholeheartedly) bloody awsome power-pc architecture to the small company that sells Intel based computers. So much money is getting spent into making a pretty system rather then a good system.

Yes, thats how much it was fir the whole thing. Between 300-400, but definitely not 400.

OWC is a reseller of mac-compatible ram. There are tight restrictions on what ram works on what machines, but plenty of ram providors do meet those basic requirements. Apple sells the ram at a profit, so a smart consumer buys direct from a supplier, you can even get the same exact samsung chips for about a third the cost. I have bought ram from OWC a few times and had no faulty dimms, and my next ram purchase is going to be from corsair of their low latency laptop ram for my MacBook pro. (4gb, a little over $100 total) I also buy hard drives from online suppliers, the powermac got a few seagate barracuda es drives a while back.

As for popularity... A big reason apple's stuff isn't more popular is because of people's fear of something different. I think that kind of fear is unreasonable, and it's the same kind of problem snooty mac enthusiasts have toward windows and linux. Why be completely againt something to the point of being stubborn, when you could give it a chance, and understand it? Trying OS X a few years ago was what made me, a windows veteran and apple trash-talker, open my eyes and really do research to determine what was best for me. If you could argue that popularity equals superiority, then you could also explain to me why Bush won the presidential election two terms in a row. Is he the best out there, just because he was the winner?

Oh, so in the big picture, the Mac can use Samsung RAM or Crosair RAM, you can normally put Seagates or Maxtors in it and it also runs Intel Core 2 duo processors. So, tell me, do the chips on the motherboard say nForce? 'Cause I'm dieing to know.
So much for the big and mighty Apple, direct-from-the-supplier chips, etc. In the end, you get a simple PC with a fancy casing. And Leopard, let's not forget the OS. For which you pay as well. Handsomely.

I could actually take into account the Bush analogy if it had any sense. But it doesn't. If SO many people HATE Bush and so many want him down, who voted for him? Lemme simplify that: he was not chosen by the people. He was chosen for the people.
Also the Oscars are political. "Oh no, say it ain't so....". Yes, I'm afraid they are.

As for seeing the light at the end of the tunnel; No, I'm sorry, I don't see it. A pretty-shiny OS that may or may not be good for video editing, graphic work etc isn't my idea of an OS. And it isn't for many other people. The insecurity is there, Safari or not Safari. Most people USE Safari. Viruses do exist, 'cause there are antiviral programs. Quite a few of them. Obviously for a reason. The hardware is not awsome, as we see here. It used to be, but it's a PC now. The OS is made to be simple which is one of it's drawbacks, as I believe, look at Blender. One of the strongest (and free) tools for 3d animation, but so many hate it 'cause it's hard to learn. But those who do, use it to make wonders. You have started to argue that the Mac is good as a server too. Why are you changing your tune so? If you were trained to use linux and unix as you say, why do you return to a Mac as a message from the great beyond? Also, a closed group of people use it and a closed group of people use it, a closed group of people fix and develop it. It's not like linux then, 'cause faults, problems and bugs are sorted out quicker and more effective.
So, I say, again:
The Mac is perfect for somebody that just wants to work on the net, blog, chat, etc. without many problems. He will get a pretty casing and a status symbol on the front of his laptop/keyboard/monitor.
A graphic/video design studio will have some 'cause they need the diversity in their business.

I'm sorry I don't see the light.

:/ Alright then, no skin off my back if you're happy using barely-good-enough Windows, or if you revel in being the geeky few that insist on using Linux for desktop work. The Mac platform continues to be my choice OS as a creative professional, not because it's "theoretically useful", but because it is useful, and for reasons I don't think I could ever describe to such a technologically one-dimensional individual as yourself. The tech has already paid for itself in its usefulness, can a l337 g4m3r or linux hobbyist honestly say the same about their investment?

I realize your machine could probably kick every one of mine's asses, simply because it's not a mac. You probably have like... 32GB of ram or something, and an 8 processor cores, right? If you find it necessary to trash-talk hardware, then you probably have some pretty serious kit to bring to the table. Not that I care to know, but I would hope that a person with such open superiority claims has the bragging rights to back it up.

This seems like pretty wasted effort as a conversation so far. Unless you have something to say other than "lol mac's suck n00b", then I will wish you adieu.

Well, since most people I talk to eventually turn to degrading me with comments such as your "one-dimensional understanding of computers", I see no point in furthering this debate. So many people before you turned to insults after not having anything to say anymore.

You still didn't comment on the fact that generic hardware is used in Macs nowadays.
You said linux/unix is to use for servers but then you changed it to "macs are better for it".
The insecurity of the OSX itself still remains.
The viral attacks on Macs still remain as a question.
The popularity of the Mac as a desktop and as a server platform is debatable.
The complexity over simplicity troubles me and I still wonder if it's "simple is best" or is it "complex equals power".
Even tho the investment payed off for you, we went over this topic already, you're an artist, aren't you? You claim that your Mac is your tool and I agreed on that. Most designer studios have one at least. But the question of pure Desktop usability still lingers in the air.
Is the shininess even worth the money? Like Vista? Shiny > Useful?
Can linux as a desktop do the same thing every other OS can? Did it evolve from being the "./configure make makeinstall" to the simple point-and-click adventure game that Windows (and Mac) is?
Does Mac really not crash?

I don't even wanna mention games. That topic is completely pointless and redundant for any OS. Don't wanna go into it.

And if I'm annoying with the arguments which so far I'm sure nobody else had the guts or the wit to counter you with, leave. I'm not holding you. Since you STILL have the impression I just dabble in OSes and hardware, I doubt there's anything else I can do to convince you otherwise.

You do realize that you have not once given factual evidence of a real Mac virus, much less a case where a Mac virus was as widespread as, say, the Blaster Worm, don't you?

Saying that viruses exist because companies sell antivirus is like saying God definitively exists because
people sell Bibles, or vampires are real because garlic is sold as a deterrent. In truth, people are just gullible and paranoid and will buy crap to protect themselves.

No one who knows what they're doing would ever use Norton, etc on a PC. I never have, and I've also never had security issues. Yet I know people who run dozens of virus and spyware apps that bog their systems and still don't protect them 100%.

And, as an aside. Go to any art school worth its salt, and you will see Macs everywhere with a few PCs in the corner for 3DSMax. So unless you think kids pay 30k to use Macs at school for general computing, you might want to reconsider your disregard for OS X as a non-industry tool.

replying via note for fabercastel's sake.

Every time a flamer doesn't realise that MacOS is noth linux but a unixoid, built off from freeBSD using their GNU licence, a Mac user gets herpes.

What was our lesson today, kiddies?

- Don't fix what's not broken!

Translation: DON'T, DO NOT install an antivirus on Tiger, cuz it works FINE without it.

I wasn't gonna post on here cuz I usually stay off this kind of bickering. but, here goes anyway:

...seriously, 'who' reformats a Mac ? Who instals an 'ANTIVIRUS' on a Mac? If you had Tiger, you'd be perfectly off without one.

I really don't want to go into Mac x PC wars, but the fact is, Macs are for people who don't want to bother, people who want to take it easy and just 'use' a computer...
Apple is good and is being 'successful' because it makes powerful equipment that is basically TARD-proof... (or 'almost' )

If you've got some tech notions and want to make the best out of a computer, you're ALWAYS...

...lemme say that again...

...ALWAYS better off with a PC, especially cuz it IS an infinitely customizable rig, for games or otherwise.

That wraps up the Mac vs PC war, thankyewverymuch


...also, 'who' reformats a Mac, or otherwise, without making a backup of their data? I'm terribly sorry for your loss... but if you don't do things properly, it sucks to be you...


BTW, making everyone's work of flaming me easier, publicly or privately, lemme just say that I've been dealing with computer equipment for at 'least' two decades, as a user, technician, programmer, web-designer, digital artist, video and sound editor, network manager, gamer, etc etc etc, on DOS, Windows, Mac AND Linux.

I may not know how to re-route a kernel's I/O sub-procedures, or overclock the bitch to triple its processing POWAAAA.

But I 'KNOW' my way around computers.

...here's my two cents.

What was our lesson today, kiddies?

- Don't fix what's not broken!

Translation: DON'T, DO NOT install an antivirus on Tiger, cuz it works FINE without it.

I wasn't gonna post on here cuz I usually stay off this kind of bickering. but, here goes anyway:

...seriously, 'who' reformats a Mac ? Who instals an 'ANTIVIRUS' on a Mac? If you had Tiger, you'd be perfectly off without one.

I really don't want to go into Mac x PC wars, but the fact is, Macs are for people who don't want to bother, people who want to take it easy and just 'use' a computer...
Apple is good and is being 'successful' because it makes powerful equipment that is basically TARD-proof... (or 'almost' )

If you've got some tech notions and want to make the best out of a computer, you're ALWAYS...

...lemme say that again...

...ALWAYS better off with a PC, especially cuz it IS an infinitely customizable rig, for games or otherwise.

That wraps up the Mac vs PC war, thankyewverymuch


...also, 'who' reformats a Mac, or otherwise, without making a backup of their data? I'm terribly sorry for your loss... but if you don't do things properly, it sucks to be you...


BTW, making everyone's work of flaming me easier, publicly or privately, lemme just say that I've been dealing with computer equipment for at 'least' two decades, as a user, technician, programmer, web-designer, digital artist, video and sound editor, network manager, gamer, etc etc etc, on DOS, Windows, Mac AND Linux.

I may not know how to re-route a kernel's I/O sub-procedures, or overclock the bitch to triple its processing POWAAAA.

But I 'KNOW' my way around computers.

...here's my two cents.

Bloody hell. You beat to the punch on that one, but pretty much what I would have typed at this point. Now can we please put this Macs vs. PCs thing to rest here. I hate heat and tired of sweeping up burnt offerings here. In the end the 3 platforms (aye adding Sun into the mix here ) together help make the computing world whole and fill their own little corner of computing needs:

Uber powered simulation computers: Sun
Easy out of the box computer: Mac
Computer that can be transformed ceaselessly: PC

Some consider SGI somewhat a platform in of itself even. They are simply there to give people an alternative and fresh perspective on computing. SGI actually possesses elements of all 3 platforms and manages to balance it quite well inside of one box

I couldn't agree more. On all of those points.

question: where did you buy the memory card thing for your DS for colors? I really want to get colors, but I can't find a place that sells the card unless it's $50 or more. Are they just that much, or is there a place to get them cheaper? Where did you get yours/was it a legit compan

50$/more sounds about right - price depends on the brand I think. Mine was the r4, which was about 50 bucks.

http://www.r4ds.com/index-en.htm

.......................................................

FUCK MAC!!!! >:c

*does not favor Windows or Linux either*