Interesting that the Admin CoC doesn't begin with:

Know the rules.
-Know the ToS.
-Know the Code of Conduct.
-Know the AUP

That's not appropriate for a code of -conduct.- That's for simply doing the job.

I find that response interesting.

Lets look at the International Association of Chiefs of Police, specifically their Model Policy on Standards of Conduct

http://www.theiacp.org/PoliceServic.....6/Default.aspx

The VERY first item they list in their Procedures for General Conduct:

---

1. Obedience to Laws, Regulations, and Orders

a. Officers shall not violate any law or any agency policy, rule, or procedure.

b. Officers shall obey all lawful orders.

Which they clarify further with :

---

B. Obedience to Laws

The model policy states that officers are responsible for observance of all laws, regulations, and orders. This may appear at first glance to be a matter of such a fundamental nature as not to deserve specific mention in an agency policy. Certainly, police officers are as subject to the law as any other person. But reality dictates and history has shown that some officers, whether through misguided zeal or for other reasons, may come to view themselves and their police colleagues as exempt from the law on a general, selective, or situational basis. This element of the policy is intended to stress the importance of the rule of law for all officers and to hold each officer accountable for any legal wrongdoing.

In particular, the mandates of procedural due process for accused persons must remain paramount in the minds of law enforcement officers as they go about the task of protecting life and property. These legal protections and individual rights cannot be placed on hold as a matter of convenience to achieve agency or officer objectives. They must be recognized as an indispensable and non-negotiable part of law enforcement in a democratic state, and a recognized cornerstone of police agency policy. The fact that officers cannot disregard their own responsibility to the law or circumvent the rights of individuals as prescribed by law in the course of performing their duties is a matter that deserves repetition and reinforcement in a policy on police conduct as well as in the agency’s code of conduct and core values.

By the same token, the model policy specifically states that officers shall not violate any agency policy, rule, or procedure and that they shall obey all lawful orders. The term lawful is included to acknowledge the uncommon yet potential situation in which an order may be given that is unlawful and/or that is in violation of agency policy. An example of an unlawful order is one in which a subordinate is directed to use excessive force.

---

I would agree with you, that in theory, knowing the rules should be fundamental prior to becoming responsible for enforcing the rules on others. I'm simply trying to point out that while the Admin CoC outlines how the rules are to be enforced, it does NOT explicitly require the Admins to be responsible for knowing the rules they are responsible for enforcing.

And that is the only point I am trying to make, simply make knowing the rules an explicit requirement for becoming an Admin. Doctors are required to prove they have medical knowledge, Police are required to know the Law they are tasked to enforce, Drivers are required to demonstrate knowledge of traffic rules before being issued a licenses, etc etc. In each case the requirements for expected conduct are explicitly defined.

YEEEEAHHHHH.

Oh Yeah!

It states to obey the law, not to know the law. Again, knowing the ToS is part of the job not the conduct.

You are absolutely correct, it says "Obey the Law".
It also requires the that the officers apply the law equally to themselves as well as others.
Furthermore it states that they shall not break the law in enforcing the law.

All three conditions require them to know the laws, so that they can CONDUCT themselves within the boundaries of the laws.


None of this was in the original document when I made my original comment. It has since been added.

Umm, excuse me, but, how are you going to obey laws if you don't know the laws?

What I'm saying is that it never states to know them, only to obey them. The OP here is nit-picking and referencing some legal cop rules that have nothing to do with the admins on FA. So I thought I'd point out that anyone can nit-pick at anything. The Admins that write these up are by no means lawyers that think of every loop-hole and honestly if they wanted to make a rule saying Admins can do whatever they want with no consequences then that's their right as owners of a free site that we browse.

I understand that, but that whole statement didn't make any sense, that's all i'm pointing out. It made me chuckle though. XD

THIS. 'Neer, you might wanna add these to the Admin CoC like, I'unno, right now.

I did. That's sort of Rule #1 for being on site staff, but it makes more sense given this is public.

Redundancy is one of the best preventive measures.

If they don't know that then they shouldn't be admins. But yes, I can agree to that.

Thanks!

Redundancy is one of the best preventive measures.

I agree as well.

Neato! :3

Wow.. 750 applications for Admin.. I feel for you dragoneer!!

Given how long the applications were open, that's not actually that much.
I'm also willingto bet that a good portion of those applications are users that are either a) not serious or b) ready to do some serious trolling

I believe most of them are option b)

and sadly, there's no way you can avoid that. The best they could do is remove the admin rights of the person, but that would only happen after the damage was done.

I agree. I am one of the 750 applicants, but i am always serious when it comes to being on the job. And I also remain with a positive attitude when associating with anyone about anything. ^^

I doubt we'll see much of the beta site, hasn't generally been up for very long (if at all) so I am rather skeptical about whether the public beta will even eventuate. If it does happen though, then great, I'll be more than happy to test it out for however long it'll be up for.

Sounds good to me

;v; No furry drama communities? Lol. Well, I suppose I could leave my favorite communities for the sake of FA.

Who cares? :V I sure as hell wouldn't

It's a matter of public image. Would you want someone who happily participates in Lulz, FD_2, etc. being an admin?

FD_2, yes.

Lulz, no.

It's off-site so why should it worry The Man?

Let's hope they'll BRING these improvements. Not unlike previous times.

Many of the changes in testing are slated to go live as it is, but we'll be working on a few others in the interim.

-twiddles fingers-
E-e-excellent.

Folders please.

-I like this post-

Issues to not report:

Petty issues.

That's more than a little vague, don't you think? It also comes off a little.. I don't know, condescending. I would remove that line entirely if it were me (which it isn't, it's up to you, but it comes off really unprofessional). What would it even entail? Who gets to decide what's 'petty', other admins?

Right?

I've been involved in "petty" drama that's turned into serious harassment.

Said situation took me no less than 3 TTs to get solved, one of which went unanswered, before an admin stepped in and actually agreed that the person was being belligerent.

So... yeah.

eeeeeeyup

It just really rubs me the wrong way. It comes off bitter and like it's pre-emptively trying to discourage you from reporting an admin who is behaving badly. It's entirely unnecessary and feels like a jab at the users. If you want a professional atmosphere (I know, I know, FA professional?), you can't start it off with weird little things like that in your official documents.

...nd like it's pre-emptively trying to discourage you from reporting an admin who is behaving badly.
That's not for admin behavior, just in general. If admins are misbehaving it's something I want to know about.

I still feel like it's unnecessary and unprofessional to have on there, regardless.

Exactly, if TTs aren't allowed for petty issues, it can EASILY (and will most likely) evolve into a full-fledged issue. Some members around here aren't known for letting things go or dropping the issue.

Agreed. When it comes to things of this nature, 'vague' outlines don't work. You need clear, concise, strong language that lays out specific issues that don't need reporting.

I've removed that, because the intent behind it is almost entirely covered by "Issues which are based entirely on your own personal opinion or views." It's not "don't report things you don't think we'd think matter," it's "don't report something because you personally don't like how something turned out."

Thanks! Part of the problem with rules like that is that they simply do not work. The type of people who would report 'petty' things to begin with aren't going to stop because there's a vague rule about it, you know? They're either not going to consider it petty (which is really, really subjective) or they're not going to read the rules to begin with/care. It looks bad and is ineffective, and I want you guys to start off on the right foot here.

Hence why we're actively listening to feedback. =3

Im sure there may be a few questions on my application that need to be cleared up if someone would be so kind to contact me on before deciding on my fate i can clear up very easily.

Was this recruitment thing on the forums or something? I'm usually pretty good with reading the announcements.. or so I thought.

It was on a site announcement for about two weeks or so.

Alright, thanks. Guess I'm just blind then lol.

This announcement was made a few weeks ago and was up for at least 2 weeks

Cool I can't wait for the Beta Site to Open and Good luck on the Admin recruitment ^^

Good luck to all who applied. Hope you know how much work it really is... if not hehehe you will find out

Take your time :) I'm sure we'd all rather you take a bit longer and select the best people for the job rather than rush it :P

750 more folks who actually give a darn about keeping FA awesome!

... At least, I hope that would be their intent!

I am liking the CoC, very nicely done. great job! <3

I remember seeing older pics for a beta sight of FA.
That had a bit different look and layout.

Is this still a future idea or just going to try to improve with
what you have right now?

I'm not directly involved in the development of the UI, but based off of what recent WIP stuff I've seen, I believe it's still being based off of that layout look you're talking about.

Can't wait for beta! It's going to be exciting.

Another beta??? O.o what?

You guys going to force changes on people again I take it? Changes to make FA 'Better' I assume, just like last time...

750 people placed resume's or did 750 people just basically say they want to earn more brownie points and ride the cock of FA?

Just makes me curious, I've had two complaints filed involving harassment that have gone unanswered for over a month now... Are these new changes more important than doing your real jobs?

Sorry to be the asshole again, but I hope you guys actually get people that will do their jobs instead of just 'picking their cases' and ignoring the rest.

I've said this to a few other people as well, but I'll reiterate in case you didn't see them. The reason we take months to get to trouble tickets is because we have over 2,000 tickets and only 8 admins working on them. Some users get their tickets answered quicker than others because some admins work at the front of the ticket queue while others work from the back. Thus, if your ticket ends up in the middle of the queue, it's likely not to get looked at until one group of admins works their end down to the middle. That's why we're taking on more admins, so we can reduce the ticket queue more effectively.

Wishlist for the holidays!

Dear Neer!
I was a good boy for the whole damn year! I demand... performance, fa lags now *brushes a tear*, more submissions per page in the options, once you replied thats easy, hope this feature is near and I fear my list doesn't end here, I also want nickname change feature to appear in 2013 year,
P.S. Rong-Yao! - /The Red Deer/ ♥


;D

Cant you already change your nick under Account Management -> Account Settings?

I haven't tried yet but the option is there for me.

Thats my wishlist, thought! ;D Some stuff are here others still missing. ;D

Okays,.. I like the play on words too :D

By the way, you can change your nickname showed in your profile info, not the name you have next to your avatar, your profile name. Two things differs. ;)

Ah never tried, so I just thought when it seys nickname :D

We already have the ability to view more submissions per page, but due to bandwidth and system resource issues, only admins have access to this feature. Maybe if FA gets rich enough to afford more bandwidth and better hardware!

Well why don't you said earlier, its so easy... I just need to become admin here. ;D
Easier than getting rich! Well wishing to fa to get some income so to get MOAR servers and better hosting.

Oh goodness, and here I was thinking that you had already done most of your selecting already!

There needs be a date-stamp on the CoC, there also needs to be a changelog detailing any changes.

I also believe that the CoC should list the minimum requirements of being an admin, like being on-site -insert_reasonable_number- hours making sure undesired things aren't hitting the fan. Actually that should be an entirely different document which is also open to the public, date-stamped, and has its own changelog.

A changelog and datestamp are definitely good ideas, and I'll see about making those happen! Also, I agree with your latter idea about requirements -- those aren't conduct requirements, those are job position requirements. Those are pretty well already covered in the "Position Description: Admin" document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/.....d7IvCGVLY/edit

*wonders of the 700+ applicants how many are viable options*

Less than a dozen, at best.
(yay cynicism)

Hey, At least you've got the icon for it ;)

What is this beta site thing exactly?

"Let me erase the scat art work, nobody wants to see it." I personally can't stand that artwork, but besides my own personal views, I will defend people’s rights to draw what they want and give them the chance to be on FA. I'm not going to sit there and judge people's styles or themes, that's not what I do. There's a lot of stuff on FA that I don't like, but people have the right to draw what they want. I will take that to my grave, defending people's art, even if I don't like it. When blocking comes out, filters, tags, we will try to do our best to ensure you don't have to see what you don't want to see. I don't believe in blocking peoples arts just for the sake of blocking it. Well, unless its cub, that is more of a legal issue. I will say this: cub is a huge gray area. I know it's a gray area, but I don't want to be the site or person who has to go to court, and discover that it is illegal. There's too many risks I view, and just a lot of problems with it. I tried to defend it for a long time, but that's all I'm going to say on the matter."

To this, all I have to say is: THANK YOU. THIS is the kind of mentality we need to have in the fandom, not this whiny "I don't like it so therefore nobody else should like it or get to see it either" bullshit. I cannot thank whoever said this enough for being mature enough to realize that everybody is different.

I have to admit, I thoroughly like the CoC. I also enjoy the update about what has been going on and I am excited for the new beta to be coming along! As usual I enjoy your response time to the issues at hand and I am happy you are taking time to review everyone that applied. I know some people say you guys really dont care, but I truly believe you do. I know you are trying to better teh site, and no matter how long it takes, I can see it being done. Rome was not built in a day n.n

The reporting guidlines seem pretty stable. It is readable and thoroughly thought out. I have no issue with that, and it seems progress is good. I say keep up the good work!

Though, I like seeing all the completed things on that board and I am really hoping for more. You guys are doing very well! I wish I could give something more constructive but it is 12 am haha! Maybe when I wake up. i would be happy to give something more constructive, meanwhile, I am happy with what I am seeing so far. Kit and neer <3 yall are great !

Thanks! It's encouraging to hear more than just complaints and criticisms XD

Surely! I think you guys are doing a great job. I Did have an inquiry on baby/diaper furs BUT I actually had yet to see anything dirty about them, twas looking at ToS buuut yeah I hadnt found anything. So I really had nothing to say about it. I feel you guys are doing well. And for that you are amazings n.n

SOOOOO HOPE I GET PICKED

I am not even thinking of it like that. I only hope that they pick the best candidates that they see fit to help run the place. Yeah, I would love to be apart of that, but I am simply hoping they make the right choices. I believe they can n.n

Don't get me wrong. So do I. But I do think I have the qualifications. I have several years of experience with website administration, moderation, and even ownership. And I would definitely enforce the TOS and AUP with an iron fist. I have seen too many people here get away with violations.

I wonder... Is that all an admins for, really?
Enforcing the TOS and AUP should only really be part of a broader thrust towards facilitation and improving everyone's site experience.
Haven't we seen where the ham-fisted approach and drive towards sterility got us already?

The opposite. A lack of enforcement, allowing trolls to troll, allowing blatant violations to go unpunished, etc.

finally looks like you guys are gettin yer shit together, i just hope you guys keep up with it

im gay

YEAH BUT HOW GAY ARE YOU

I have read the rules and I am 100% capable of this. I am probably one of the nicest and most understanding people here. I manage at my own job as an artist, and being respectful and polite without any drama or arguments is what makes a customer happy! Therefore makes me happy as well. I not only signed up to help others, but to be a team player and help improve the site as well. <3 super thankful for this opportunity Dragoneer, I thank you for allowing me to sign up! :D

Maybe there should be something in the Admins CoC to not suspend people when they are not going to unsuspend said people.
Because suspending is equal to a ban here.

It's a code issue for that. The suspension status allows the admins to insert a reason for the suspension. The ban feature does not. If they need the user to see why they are banned, then they set the suspension to a really, really long time and leave it at that.

Aha, yeah I understand tough I do think the names can cause confusion

Code issue or not, it's a potential problem for other users - sometimes trying to e.g. get a hold of someone it's important to know whether they can be expected to show up again after a time-out or if they're off the site for good. If a suspension is put in as a workaround to the failings of the ban function, it should be converted to a ban after a suitable amount of time.

Perhaps that's something you should bring up to the admins? I simply know why the suspension status is used vs. the banned status. :p

i really hope people dont abuse this new system of reporting admins... really hope...
because we all know no one is going to read all the rules on reporting them and just send note after note about personal horseshit.
*sigh*

IMO, the dating on the admin-reporting should be in the least confusing format possible - Mar 1 2012 cannot be confused for any other date while 03 01 12 can be any of three dates (though obviously if you're reporting issues from 2001 or 2003 you're doing it wrong). At the very least making it YYYY would reduce the potential confusion greatly. I'll admit to being biased here since I have issues with American-format dating - I'm used to YY-MM-DD or DD-MM-YY being standard. (I'd happily take dating on TTs in the TT interface being shown in similar long form as well.)

I realize that the dating is mostly for the benefit of the admin handling the report, and not the sender, but less ambiguity should also reduce the risk of it being done wrong.

I would suggest implementing policy or functionality for AUP/ToS/SA clarifications (both asking and answering) - I feel bad noting Dragoneer every time some oddball case comes up that needs clarified.

Good point, I'll update the guidelines to have a clearer date format!

Regarding policy clarifications, you should be able to make a trouble ticket for that (or send a note to any admin, since such a thing can be answered immediately and not require much information gathering).

Question that i don't think was addressed so far (apologies if I missed it!) - Would it be possible to contact applicants to at least let them know their application was received?

I hope that sounds reasonable. I'm from the school of thought that says you shouldn't assume any communication that wasn't acknowledged was actually received. :)

Given the volume of people that have sent applications, I think it'd be unfeasible to send a confirmation to everyone who has already submitted. A more feasible option would be to send an auto-confirmation upon submission of the application, but I don't think Google forms have that option. Assuming too many people don't ask, though, we should be able to simply check upon request!

Erm...this is the part where I act like a neurotic head-case and ask for confirmation, then? :p

Confirmed, we got yours :P

Thanks!!! :)

I want to apologize for the multiple applications, Kitashi. I had forgotten some crucial details in my original application...

No worries!

I know with Google Forms, you can copy the applicant's information they submitted to their email address if they are logged into their Google Account. I don't know if that's an auto-feature or not but I've been on the receiving end of that and it works slick (a check mark box that the applicant can check to receive their answers and a notice saying it was received by the owner of the form)

Okay, I'll look into that next time we use a Google Form, then!

Something tells me one must interview each and every one of those 750, and not a skimpy quick one.

I remember reading something relevant to this but cant remember where >.< I know they have a system in which they are doing it but I cant remember where I saw it lol

We'll likely follow the same process most employers take: The resume gets you an interview, and the interview is what gets you the position. It'd be completely unrealistic for -anyone-, us or any company, to interview every single person who applies.

Yeah, this! I remember reading something about taking 10 applicants, the number 2 was in there, but I cant remember it XD

Beta site? what improvents? WHAT? wohoo!

So... when is "Ferrox" getting revived? 'cause we all know the FA's back end coding is complete trash and should have been rewritten ages ago.
I wont be really impressed until you get the ball rolling on that little project.

Not gonna happen, I'm afraid. If they have to take down the site for every little bug they encounter, can you imagine the hassle it would be to deal with the data of this site? They should've done it earlier, now it's too late so they are just patching up things to keep it working.

The thing is that they wouldn't even need to bring down the site. Hell, they wouldn't even need to revive the old Ferrox project. I was more referring to the fact that FA's code needs a massive overhaul.

Rewriting the entire back end of the site wouldn't actually take that much effort (compared to other things, at any rate). I've said this before, and I'll say this again: they could have the entire site redone (both the back end and the front end) by a professional developer for under $500 and have it done in under a month. Easily. Databases are one good thing that I know yak is good with, and all he would really need to do is transfer the data over to a new database. Even that wouldn't take much effort as a lot of it can be automated.

This sort of thing has been suggested for years, but not one person on the "development team" seems to take it seriously because "LOL THEN I CAN'T STROKE MY MASSIVE E-PEEN!!111!111111111". It's bullshit.

I agree with you on that. Unfortunately, the people who are administrating this website don't want to make such effort.

The "no one person above another" is a crock, I've personally seen certain staff put their friends above others (and got banned from the forums from such politics sai said certain staff members)

Yeah I'm making sure to keep bookmarks of the code of conduct and reporting guidelines links.

According to the code of conduct, the staff member I complained about to Neer should have been dealt with, yet I'm still waiting five months on, you really need to streamline dealing with staff issues, especially given that a badly behaving staffer could easily wreak havoc in the time it's taken to deal with an issue that really should have taken five minutes.

Loans Dragoneer his cloning device to aid the process along. This model has an intellectual adjustment as well, clones can be made with no fear of them revolting. :) New this year!

Ferret

I wouldn't trust most users on this site, let alone those posting here being hopeful either..

Sorry but the past actions of previous admins (Chase, Scigs, all those Furocity admins) ruined my trust for the bulk of users here.

Trust is earned, not given.

I like how you can get 750 people to submit to wanting to be an admin
But I've still been waiting in 3 unanswered trouble tickets for over a month
I'd suggest choosing quality over quanity for admins...
But at this point I don't expect -any- service from FA anymore, good or bad

I agree with a lot of other's. Got a lot of admin app's, yet very little help in response on TT's. I'm hoping all these new admins will help out a lot in this area.

Still, I'd say that's a good number of application's. Good luck in going through them all. Just from what I saw n the application, looks like you all have your work cut out for you.

Best of wishes to all that applied. Hope this community get's some good additions to the staff.

How will potential admins be informed that they might (or have been) picked?

Regarding the new banner system, will all or any of the old banners ever make it into that system, and will there ever be any kind of community contests in addition to the FA staff directly commissioning people? I've gotta admit, making a banner for the site has always been kind of a secret desire of mine :>

I can understand the hesitation given the horrible, asinine things people have said to past banner artists, but people those people need to be dumped into the ocean anyway. It's not cool to insult an artist just because you don't like their style, especially when they're just starting out and have potential that they haven't had a chance to scratch yet.
/end mini-rant

The admin are not following through or reinforcing the AUP properly.

Once I'd trouble ticket a photo but the admin refused to remove it on the grounds of he or she owned the same item in the photo.

IF I BECOME ADMIN ROOTBEER FLOATS ( or your soda of choice ) FOR ALL!!!!

Thank you for the headsup, take your time. Though i am working 40 hours a week now i still have plenty of time i can provide for the site, i need something more productive to do and id like to contribute to the site.

750 submissions?????????? (((((

maybe need to replace banner!!!!

Im curious, what happened with the banner?

I have a strange feeling that I am not gonna be picked for admin possition.

Though... I could be wrong. *shrugs*

Dis gon b gud

And will we be getting our thumbnail functionality back?

They did mention briefly that they wanted to bring that back but that's about the gist of what was mentioned during the Town Hall.

Gee whiz. It's Just one feature.

It's a problem with how the files are created. They increased the thumbnail sizes but didn't change anything else.

When you add a custom thumbnail, it only creates 100x100 and 120x120 size files (the latter being in your Submission Stats) Most people are seeing the 200x200 size thumbnails or the 150x150 size thumbnails, which I'd surmise were not included in the code for custom thumbnails.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what that section of the code looks like, or how much more work the site would have to do to create those files. I don't think it would take up any more space, however, because the files for each size thumbnail already exist.

If I become an admin, I'll try to bring it up but my main focus will be whatever they need me to do. I would like to take a look at the code but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it if I'm not allowed to.

Here's hoping something comes out of this.

Please, check PM.

I sent a proposal for sysadmin position, not admin

Of course I would like to help out but I can wait as long as I have to. ;)

As a reminder, I will be graduating shortly so you won't have to worry about school getting in the way.

Aye don't worry guys. I have more then enough patience. I'll just go back to minecraft of dig. Dig dig diiiiig!

One or 2 of the links to guidelines shows that the admins should respect FA users, even if it is about dealing with a problem. Yeah, I hope so because I somehow feel nervous about being contacted by admins*. There are a few people who think I'm doing harrassment, but anyone reading this need to understand that I am NOT here to do ANYTHING bad. Okay? I don't know why they think I'm doing bad things, even though I'm trying not to.

There is a conflict that just happened to me with a user called VInnieWolf right here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:30304049. One thing that happened is he responded to my comment in an unexpected and harsh way, which he shouldn't do that, and I did NOT want this conflict. One thing that user said is he has "report" me.

* Being concerned about people saying bad or harsh things is actually considered unusual for me. The reason is because this experience on what I watch on Youtube. What I usually see is controversial stuff with Christian and creationist issues.
I see people doing nasty, irrational, disrespectful, and dramatic things on that topic on Youtube. Because of that, I can tell if someone is being mean or unreasonable. Also, it helps me avoid doing those bad stuff.

just want to inform you that the watch and send note tabs show up on every page, except for the watch tab doesn't show up on Favorites and Journals (AFAIK) Not sure if it's fully implemented yet but this is just an observation.

being an admin is a difficult job, i was an admin on another message board major props to all the admins here * hugs them *

lets just hope this doesn't turn out terrible