FA+
Shop
And then it all went to hell.
12 years ago
Thanks to everyone who contributed to me having a good time at the convention, is was good to catch up and get some art and even art a little bit myself. Then I had to go home. It was the usual fair at the airports, I never had to strip down so many times for security and every plane I had to take was delayed. (equaling 12+ hours of travel)
So I'm in customs back in my home town when they decide to search my stuff. Not a big deal, I got nothing to hide, I've done this before. Go for it.
(I had received contributor copies of 'Untamed #2') and I thought they might have a problem with it. As sucky as it would have been, I'm prepared to let them go....but it doesn't stop there.
They look through my phone, my laptop, all my display and Zigzag/Raven sketchbooks. I still have nothing to hide but they figure it 'may' fall under the obscenity law in Canada.
So guess what happens?. they took it. ALL OF IT!
I got to keep my phone but all the other things on the list was taken, some other books I had bought at the con as well.
I know they were 'doing their job' and at least afforded me my dignity. (no yelling or looking down upon) but the "B" word kept cropping up. (oddly enough, so did 'anime', I guess they think the both as equals. I can say the guy processing me was trying to keep my spirits up and even gave me his number to call because I didn't kick up a (real) fuss and was super cooperative and declared anything important. As much as I'd hate to lose the books I kept saying I understand what's going on but please don't destroy the original art. I can get the published books again but don't destroy my art and computer. ( I can even replace the computer but I had a lot of scans on it from the con) I can even lose my adult display book (because somewhere on my drive I have copies but the Zig and Raven Books have original stuff I cannot replace. :P
I asked before I left if I was being put on some list. The guy asked 'what list?'. I tell him there's a list for everything. He tells me because I declared everything, didn't lie and cooperated that there's no reason I should but you never know with the government. He seemed to understand my worry about originals being destroyed but it doesn't matter what he thinks, it's up to these 'experts' thet the material is being sent to and if one of them is having a bad day or just doesn't like what he/she sees, it's done.
So i have a couple of options, I can appeal, which i will start doing this weekend. And after getting home and reading the form again, at my cost, can send it back into the states. Canada post doesn't want responsibility for sending it so if it comes to it, I'll see if I can use fedex or some other option.
Otherwise, it's all in a fire. Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Oh yeah and my right eye looks like looking through a lens smeared with Vaseline, so there's that to take care of too, wish me some more luck.
Losing the job, losing the art, losing an eye....2013 is not my year. :P
So I'm in customs back in my home town when they decide to search my stuff. Not a big deal, I got nothing to hide, I've done this before. Go for it.
(I had received contributor copies of 'Untamed #2') and I thought they might have a problem with it. As sucky as it would have been, I'm prepared to let them go....but it doesn't stop there.
They look through my phone, my laptop, all my display and Zigzag/Raven sketchbooks. I still have nothing to hide but they figure it 'may' fall under the obscenity law in Canada.
So guess what happens?. they took it. ALL OF IT!
I got to keep my phone but all the other things on the list was taken, some other books I had bought at the con as well.
I know they were 'doing their job' and at least afforded me my dignity. (no yelling or looking down upon) but the "B" word kept cropping up. (oddly enough, so did 'anime', I guess they think the both as equals. I can say the guy processing me was trying to keep my spirits up and even gave me his number to call because I didn't kick up a (real) fuss and was super cooperative and declared anything important. As much as I'd hate to lose the books I kept saying I understand what's going on but please don't destroy the original art. I can get the published books again but don't destroy my art and computer. ( I can even replace the computer but I had a lot of scans on it from the con) I can even lose my adult display book (because somewhere on my drive I have copies but the Zig and Raven Books have original stuff I cannot replace. :P
I asked before I left if I was being put on some list. The guy asked 'what list?'. I tell him there's a list for everything. He tells me because I declared everything, didn't lie and cooperated that there's no reason I should but you never know with the government. He seemed to understand my worry about originals being destroyed but it doesn't matter what he thinks, it's up to these 'experts' thet the material is being sent to and if one of them is having a bad day or just doesn't like what he/she sees, it's done.
So i have a couple of options, I can appeal, which i will start doing this weekend. And after getting home and reading the form again, at my cost, can send it back into the states. Canada post doesn't want responsibility for sending it so if it comes to it, I'll see if I can use fedex or some other option.
Otherwise, it's all in a fire. Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Oh yeah and my right eye looks like looking through a lens smeared with Vaseline, so there's that to take care of too, wish me some more luck.
Losing the job, losing the art, losing an eye....2013 is not my year. :P
Hopefully this is the worst of it and the rest of the year will go smoothly.
Bondage
Bestiality, (as noted, furry on furry is not bestiality[1]).
Child porn, including drawn[2].
[1] But the way the Omaha decision works means that furry on human is.
[2] Unless it's furry, because "animals performing animal acts" is not pornography.
I agree with that, looks like americans and canadians have a lot to learn about them from the good ol' Europe. AFAIK here furry stuff don't cause that kind of problems.
Oh and towards "American laws do not have any problems with it."
I live in America and I beg to differ.
Famously, tons (in literal terms) of material going to Little Sister's, a GLBT adult shop in Vancouver has been seized under obscenity laws, despite identical material going through to more mainstream outlets without a hitch. There are are some good articles below on CBSA's history with regards to this sort of thing.
http://www.comicbookdaily.com/colum.....nd-censorship/
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php.....=&id=53520
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Ottawa/PG.....fest-7893.aspx
it is considered lucky almost everywhere else.
If it makes you feel any better, I accidently shattered the screen on my iTouch last year in July and had to get that replaced with another iTouch...it certainly wasn't cheap, I can say that for certain (especially due to the warranty having been expired and all by then). ;^^
I wish you all the luck, you can get from me, i have fingers, legs and arms, cross fro you
kitch was just pointing out that ALL of the "Evil Bushitlers" so called security actions are being continued or expanded under Obama.
Small potatoes? maybe, but wrong is wrong, no matter what letter is after the name of the president.
wait. You're both morons. Disregard the above statement.
Obama's done both good and bad, pretending he hasn't is foolish. The republicans have hardly caved on everything the President wants. Plenty of legislation has been watered down by the republicans in Congress to weaken Obama's presidency for their own political gain. Pretending Republicans, those poor, rich, privileged members of Congress, are somehow victims is either you being astonishingly ignorant, or gullible. Both parties have done good and bad as they always have. No single party or person is at fault
the only thing he's done that I approve of is ending Don't Ask Don't Tell and the ban on gays in the military...
you can count that as two things if you like... but everything else he's done I oppose.
also the Democrats in congress FAR outnumber the republicans in the number of Millionaires currently serving.
while I agree Both Parties are at fault, it's still 10 to 1 the democrats fault.
thinking anything else just proves you either do not pay attention to what is really going on, or you are brainwashed by the left-wing liberally biased media.
Things will improve! you'll see!
Small tip, the second you lay your hands on original stuff, make backups. And I don't mean on a portable usb or something like that that can be taken off you just like a laptop and books. Scan, copy, whatever and just upload everything to something like dropbox. That way, where ever you go, you will be able to regain anything that may get lost... assuming you have an internet connection.
Canada is quite strict about things coming into the country sadly... I almost got thrown in prison for having a 6yr old misdemeanor on my record when I went to visit Windsor.
I wish you the best luck on appeals, and I'll stand behind you everystep of the way old friend.
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instan.....x/29037801.jpg
I myself is going throw the roughest time, i ever had with em, witch could severgly hurt my future possibilites.
that said you sure are taking this with stried mate, hope it works out for ya.
I hope things go smooth from here. Appealing is your best option and let's hope it doesn't go to hell from here... I swear, governments can be so stupid at times...
Also, and please forgive my dull brain, what is "the 'B' word"?
Yours,
Sylvan
Silvador wrote:Small tip, the second you lay your hands on original stuff, make backups. And I don't mean on a portable usb or something like that that can be taken off you just like a laptop and books. Scan, copy, whatever and just upload everything to something like dropbox. That way, where ever you go, you will be able to regain anything that may get lost... assuming you have an internet connection.^This
What happens here in such cases is it goes before a panel who evaluate it and determine if it is or not, things that are not should be returned, things that are, don't get in. I had a friend who visited Japan and got a huge batch of manga and anime. He lost some of that under similar rules. Customs (at least here) will confiscate first, then ask questions later, sort of using the excuse of its not up to them to define the content, they just flag anything that is suspicious.
TLDR: That royally sucks, dude. Hope that you don't get screwed over on this one.
As for your current troubles, argh, that's horrible. I beam maximum-strength hopes your way re: both your art/gear and your eye; fingers crossed and wood knocked that you catch some breaks real soon.
Things look up for you and that this dark cloud has a large silver lining to it.
First, anything you Actually wanna keep, ship back to yourself via fedex before you leave (and insure it for the value of the items)
Second, Move Out Of Canada. I know, the USA isn't much better, and most Canadians think we are FAR worse... but at least you'll be closer to the Con's and not have to worry about your shit getting stolen by the government!
with my employers insurance meds are $8 for a months worth for each kind of pill I'm on (metformin and glimiperide, so $16 monthly)
and testing strips, which I REALLY could get a prescription for, but I buy them out of pocket for $58 a month (would be $12 if I bothered to get prescription for them)
also, as long as he could prove that it was documented and previously covered by insurance then any new employer would Have to cover him. it's like the law or something.
I looked into that when I was facing my 90-day "get this number under control or you loose your license and ability to earn an income" trial.
besides, diabetes is so rampant in the U.S. that it's hardly considered "a Condition" at all. I'm pretty sure anyone would cover him.
hell, if he was of the right age and didn't mind being adapted *I* could cover him with My insurance...
Now, the new insurance I have still doesn't cover Durable Medical Equipment, so I'm still paying the 170, but I'm getting 2 vials for $30. Total. Novolog. Not N, or 70/30. Pure grain. If I get a script for a monthly fill, mail-order, it'd be 75 for the month... which going by the costs, would get me 5 vials of insulin (If I've got this right. If not, hell, I think I only really need 3 a month on a bad month.) It's a HMO, which I'm having trouble adapting to... but the tradeoff for the most expensive thing I need now being cheaper than wal-mart brand insulin (if I remember correctly you can get a vial of I think Humalin from WalMart, no script, $25.).
All the luck I can wish is with you in all of the things that asail you.
While the loss of original art is a travesty, the loss of sight to an artist in this day is criminal.
So, all my best wishes for an improvement there.
*HUG*
Good luck and know that we are with you from wherever in the world we hail.
I wish you the best of luck with customs.
That's terrible news, Max Are you able to get any of your things back? That's ridiculous for them to just confiscate it and not return it. Can you sue?
The border is a roll of the dice.
I've only had one stop happen to me once and the other times they questioned me cause I had some salad kits in the back of my SUV along with some chips and they were checking for produce.
People usually get in trouble at the border for opening there mouth or doing something they shouldn't have been while waiting at the border, there are cameras everywhere.
On my last trip through as my car was getting scanned I heard one chick joking about them finding a bomb etc. I facepalmed so hard, and low and behold they made them stay behind along with one other after the x-ray truck was finished.
I hate to admit it but Canada customs can be the most unpredictable beast when it comes to deciding what is acceptable or not.
Even Canada post has ripped open "suspicious" packages addressed to me in apparently the hopes of charging me extra for being a merchant or finding "banned" materials. I can't buy from certain American vendors now.
Remember also that America still has portions of the Comstock laws in effect, just rarely enforced.
I second that Dropbox could help with the data in the future, but to have all the hardware and printed materials confiscated... Balls.
You live in canada, at that, there is clear laws for this
They can't take your stuff like this unless there is a clear set case for it
The only time they can take your stuff is if its
A) Pedophilia, but then we wouldn't be talking to you right now
B) Bestiality
The key part of -BOTH- of those though is that it has to be -ACTUAL- pictures, as in, actual real life photo's of either, drawings are held under freedom of speech, freedom of expression
Next time they pull shit like this, and start saying shit like that, openly fucking point that out to them and the actual defined laws, cause unless you do you are at the mercy of a fuckwit airport security guy who on a good day could see a dildo and go "Meh, masturbatory aid" vs a bad day go "S&M bondage gear, search and cease!"
FYI - If they claim the laptop was "Destroyed" Demand whats left of it back regardless, and make them foot the replacement. I've taken apart over 400 laptops in my lifetime, none of them were "Destroyed" to remove something like a hard drive etc. Also by law they are not allowed to cease evidence and then "Destroy it" no matter what the results of the investigations contents examined is illegal or not, if its illegal they must cease it, if its not they -MUST- return it, and often them "Declaring its destroyed" is just cause they don't want to pay postage to return something
Customs is supposed to:
A) Cease all drugs
B) Cease all foreign fauna (Fruits, veggies, animals)
C) Cease any guns
D) Cease illegal material such as real life pictures of bestiality or pedophilia
Personally if I was you Max I would have kicked/screamed in that airport till they were forced to detain you, in which you would then have got a lawyer provided to you for free by the government, in which he would have told those fuckers to wise the fuck up and give your stuff back ASAP
Unless, of course, you did mean to say that Customs is supposed to stop using drugs, guns, and illegal pornography, in which case I'd have to agree. :D
If I painted a picture destined for sale, and was valued at around $100,000 and they seized it, declared it was not infringing on any laws, and then just destroyed it, that is illegal
The law -ITSELF- states that any evidence gathered to assess a crime, if its found the evidence is not breaking any laws or is not been used to commit a crime, it must be returned to the original person. Somebody else cannot assign a value on somebody else's property, and by law it any evidence collected that did not make any laws must be returned to the person, otherwise personal bias comes into question, just like this whole fucking mess to begin with.
Somebody who doesn't appreciate art, or looks at Max's stuff and hates it, will just go "Meh, its a $10 art book, just fucking torch it, no loss" when to Max who has probably at this point spent thousands of hours drawing in them, along with other artists who have spent thousands of hours drawing in them, its a very deeply and highly valuable item to Max.
Kick, scream, yell, standing around like meek sheep and letting the government do what it wants is why they get away with this shit. Contact your local newspaper, contact the news, tell them what was seized etc, make a big fucking deal out of it.
I bought a PS2 Bootdisk years back, and it was seized due to "Questionable material" etc cause it could be illegal etc.
I jumped on that fucking phone and told the asshole on the other end -EXACTLY- canada's stance on such items, that a bootdisk in itself is not infringing on any laws, because I could be using the bootdisk to do something else with my PS2 and not just piracy. He argued that most likely it was piracy, and I pointed out that the -LAW- does not state that, he then said hacking was illegal, and then I pointed out consumer rights that a person who then buys something has the right to take it apart, tamper with it and experiment with it all they want, as long as any information gathered from doing so is not used in a product you design and sell yourself.
Three hours I spent on the phone with the fucker till he finally caved in because I knew the laws better then he did and his grade 4 education and I could counter him on any fucking stupid statement he made, and I got my disk 3 days later. TODAY would be a different issue because items like that -ARE- illegal cause they are defined under law, but at the time they were not.
My artist roomie told me that Heather Bruton just ships all her stuff back home, and never has a problem. It's more costly, sure, but .. damn, sure beats this nonsense. I suspect you've been through customs lots of times and not had more than some inconvenience? Or have they confiscated shit before?
I feel terrible for ya, man. I hope you get all your stuff back. If you wind up taking the "ship back to the states" option, I'm happy to be your go-between in Denver, though I suspect you have a wealth of options in the 'states to choose from. And then of course I would gladly ship it back to you (my treat). Hmm, I'd suggest separate shipments/packages, just to minimize the ouch if they decide to confiscate again. UGH.
Reminds me of that guy in Indiana who was arrested for receiving manga from some company in Japan. It's so not f'ing right. :P
Boo to the nitwits that did you wrong (ie 'their job'). I wish I could help, but I know little about how the law works and things like that, so whatever happens, I hope you keep your chin up!
I can only image what they'd do to me, with all the medically applied metal I have in my body!
Dude.. that sucks. Fight and fight hard!
or they were bored
*hugs*I hope you can get the originals back.
And I hope the rest of your year starts to improve.
Sorry, that's just grounds for a punch in the nose to me. I really hope you get them back.
Sorry, bro; I wish this could've been avoided 4 U, dude, I Really hate U had to go through that trove of f*k ups just to go from place to place, my friend.
Do what U have to do to rectify and fix the problems, mann; we're with U 100 as always, dude.
Take care as best U can, friend. The world's tough but you're tougher.
Suffice to say, I no longer judge my landlord for having a meltdown and getting himself arrested when a similar thing
happened to him at the border.
I hope you get everything back in good condition pretty damn quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7.....-o&t=9m18s this video shows it all working in perfect harmony.
Usually being very ignorant about the matter as well. I do hope that you get your belongings back Max, I have had this happen to me before over my belongs as well. Let's just hope it goes smoothly.
I really hope things will shift more positively in Max's favor as well with the appeal, in his case.
The laws that boarder officials are using are over 30+ years old. This is nothing new, I am afraid to say.
You are a Canadian citizen? The original art is all yours? This was Canadian Customs, coming back into your Canadian home? This is probably not how the Customs screening was supposed to work.
I understand (from British & Commonwealth comics fans, years ago) that the UK (and most of the former Commonwealth countries) have a big problem (paranoia) with foreign-produced (from the USA) questionable IMPORTED publications. But it always seemed to be clear that Canadian Customs was concerned with foreign material coming in, not with original art done by their own Canadian artists, done in their own country. It was the incoming art done by FOREIGNERS that was supposedly freaking them out enough to have restrictive import controls.
Your sales (in the USA) of your Canadian-produced exotic art and prints are income for the Canadian economy! Confiscation is not a good way to help the cultural trade balance!
The Customs Agent giving you his phone number probably wants you (or your lawyer) to be able to find him as a witness: For how co-operative you were, for what he was ordered to confiscate, and for a true inventory of what was taken (such as original art).
"B-word": Sexy, furry anthro art has already had that trial in Canada: A Canadian court found that "Omaha the Cat Dancer" comics were not obscene, bestiality, or kiddy porn, and as 'literature' were protected from Customs confiscation.
i cant think of anything to say...
Some day, the righteous will beat these stupid obscenity laws and customs will have to stand down. Art is art man, I just wish these "high and mighty" cats could understand that. As artists, sometimes its all we have in life, and its a terrible indignity for them to snatch away things that are personal like that. I mean, who the fuck are they?
But its whatever for now.
Here's hoping things roll in your favor, your health gets better, you get your stuff back, and that you find the right job. =)
Here's to makin' the scene in 2013 Max.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
If things go really bad, you may want to get in touch with the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund.
I am really hoping you get all your stuff back and in order, I know I'd be seething with rage if I were in your shoes. Please take care of yourself man.
Yes.. apparently DICE, as in roll for your character stats?. Dice!
Only years later did I find out that the dice I had at the time were the hotness for drug smugglers cause the sparkle stuff inside made it near impossible to check if it had been hollowed out and coke! put inside. Of course this I learned myself but we damn near lost the car as is. 2 hours in the tiny rooms, forms, browbeating, etc because of..dice.
BOTH side are morons plain and simple and use the same excuses guards at certain camps in WWII did, so I honestly hope someday they can all be unemployed and fight for a real job.
As for you max many hugs and support from me and the gang here at the con, and hope we will see you at FE in better condition. if you need thing though let me know in a note and I will see what I can do.
Gaia bless
Pakesh_De
ChairCritter for Furnal Equinox
I would have flipped shit. Even though keeping your cool keeps you from getting arrested, it still doesn't get you your stuff back.
Those laws are bullshit.
"Relax Bitch, it's just a game". That saying needs to be tweaked; "Relax Bitch, it's just art".
Also, this won't help if you lose the art (which we all hope you don't), but if you get it back, maybe you could consider some online storage service, like maybe DropBox? The free model only gives you 2GB of space, but you could upgrade it to more space, giving you access to digital copies of your art anywhere you have an internet connection.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/con.....2012/otakon/15
You might look into this, it could be very relevant to your case. Precedent...
http://cbldf.org/about-us/contact/
They have an emergency contact phone number for situations like this. Give 'em a call!
WOW WTF.
Best of luck on the eye. :(
I'm looking at the last letter they sent: "Nothing that can be considered obscene,... you are not restricted to travel into Canadian territory,... You owe beaucoup $$$$$ for having to keep/review your case."
I wish you the best getting it all back.
If there's us anything we can do to help you out, please let us know. I can't believe they did this,
All i can say is you have my best wishes, and when the government fucks with your shit, break out the laws and loopholes, and do it in a professional manner. People are intimidated when they see that the person they fucked with did their research.
I wish you good luck man, really hoping that the appeal will work in your favor and that you'll be able to get your original art and other stuff back. AND that you'll get that eye looked at and hopefully fixed, that doesn't sound good from what you described of your current vision from it. ;^^
I don't what to say. My best wishes to you.
If you need something from me then let me know.
They shouldn't be able to fucking seize your laptop and destroy it. THAT is an invasaion of privacy, and unless they have a warrant, I don't think they should be allowed to go through your laptop. Your bags, fine. But not your laptop.
If I were you, I'd keep everything on a flash drive or external hard drive when going over. Keep on your person, and hide/encrypt your files.
It's going to be a long, hard battle.
I'm never going to Canada again.
The good news is that the older generation is *finally* dying off - the old, cranky, religious white men who impose their morality upon all of us. Well I say to Pat Robertson and his ilk "Rot in peace, and take your self-righteous bullshit with you!"
I had something stopped, (but then cleared), five years ago: I still run under the assumption that anything tagged as "book" or "magazine" will stall at the border for a month.
Here you can get anything seized if it of a certain category of obscenity. You would think from a country that was once pretty open about sex in the 60s and 70s and some of the 80s this is odd, but it’s not.
There are categories that could result in various things like:
You could just get it sized and told not to do it again.
You could get fined and told not to do it again.
You could get it sized and fined and told not to do it again.
You could get find, seized and arrested.
You could get fined seized arrested and even charged.
You could get fined, seized, arrested, charged and deported.
You could get fined, seized, arrested, charged, jailed and then deported.
You could get fined, seized, arrested, charged, jailed, deported and banned from ever returning.
But this is only if they pick you out for a random search and unless you’re acting suspicious or from arrived from a country that has a history (like Cambodia or the Philippines ect) then you are likely to be waved through.
Sorry this had happend to you, could be bad luck, but then again some members of goverment are worried about their reputation if they are seen not doing anything
Having read the Criminal Code of Canada section 163, I think I know what the boarder guard was thinking.
Section 163(8) states that anything obscene can be "a dominant characteristic of the publication is the undue exploitation of sex, or the combination of sex and at least one of crime, horror, cruelty or violence".
So who ever is doing your review has to decide if Furry cartoon art counts as a obscene by the above definition. Does Furry + Sex equal crime? That is the question at hand, and I am sure they will compare it to Anime which has a tone of this same stuff, but because furry is cartooned Animals, many see the ANIMAL part and not the CARTOON part.
Please note, that Skunkworks is/was banned in Canada as obscene material. I found this out when I tried to buy a copy and the seller could not send it to Canada because it was illegal here. Now this was back in the late 90s, and I had already found a few issues at some of the comic books stores in Vancouver. They might use this as precedent, if the person who does the review of your material is thorough and knows what to look for.
=^.,.^=
[T]he portrayal of sex coupled with violence will almost always constitute the undue exploitation of sex [and therefore be intolerable to the average Canadian]. Explicit sex which is degrading or dehumanizing may be undue if the risk of harm is substantial. Finally, explicit sex that is not violent and neither degrading nor dehumanizing is generally tolerated in our society and will not qualify as the undue exploitation of sex unless it employs children in its production.
=^.,.^=