Good luck to those chosen :)

this may end well... or end terribly.
Time will tell.

agreed

Except for the stuff that hasn't ended yet.

Like Ferrox!

*snicker*

how bout recruiting an independent body that one can appeal to when the admins suspend users for vague rules

your current administration has supported the fact that you guys for some reason, unlike the other 2 main furry sites LIKE vague rules, why? who knows...

but would be nice to have someone to appeal to other than the group suspending you who think admins make no mistakes

this is even more important since you support the idiotic 3 strikes rule...which is crazy even irl

I say this having 2 "strikes" since there's no time limit on that rule either, which mean one more admin abusing his power and I'm gone from this site...makes me totally loyal to FA and directing people continually to other places to find me, yay for you

my 2 previous strikes, both of which were appealed by current system and was told both told admins were right, often by the SAME admin banning me...

1. I posted a censored pic of r-rated sonic with roadrunner...obviously kinda a joke, but hey you ban sonic looking like sonic, cuz you hate fan art of sonic and think people should draw fan art of sonic based on how you think sonic should be drawn, um wut? big black bars in front of everything...justification for the suspension? the admin KNEW what was behind the black bar, apparently FA has a higher standards than all the TV networks, complained to dragoneer, no answer. suspension stood, 1 stike

2. 2nd one...did a FERAL pic of bambi with horns, ie sexually mature...with Rono, also with horns, but since your admin had never heard of Bambi 2, assumed both were immature deer, despite obvious horns, violating the unwritten feral rule, simple because bambi is also young bambi ..again complained, no answer from dragoneer

so yeah...both of these could easily be argued against...but the admins are always right.

any current admins wanna say these past decisions were wrong and show some shred of credibility?

do I still have two strikes against me and should continue to direct people to other places fervently since I expect someday an admin will give me that third strike (again a really stupid rule without time limits)?

or do you really want me to think FA is gaining a shred of credibility and this is not just all PR crap to retain the users who realize your past policies have been arrogant, condescending, and ignoring its users

what happened there on both situations is wrong on their behalf and the very thing i warn people about when it comes to FA,.. keep redirrecting,.. i do

yush, but they even made a rule for THAT too...you can no longer directly link to anything that might violate their vague rules, ANOTHER huge blunder on FA's part...now FA nazis are policing what you post on OTHER sites, even tho this does not cause any indemity on them legally...the only reason for that rule is they realize their Nazi behavior is sending people elsewhere and they seek to control what you put on other places

I mean REALLY?

again I am 0.4% not in compliance with their spur of the moment, not written, admins decide what the rules actual mean rules, and yes that engenders the hatred I have for FA due to the treatment I have received in the past 2 yrs

PS - had ha NO problems with admins on SF or IB, and have had far more % pic banned on IB of all sites I post on.

Sigh, Can we please not use the term Nazi to try to play up one's verbal dramatic effect? Nazis murdered thousands of human beings, I don't think some cartoon animal art gallery administration quite equates to that. We get your point without you having to 'go there'. Just saying.

The Nazis killed millions, actually. So, mathematically, I believe perhaps a thousand times more than you that blowing things out of proportion and calling the admins of a pretty much free site Nazis isn't helping anyone. In fact, why not take an opportunity to thanks these admins for a place to share art and make friends?

Thanks, admins, for a place to share art and make friends!

Wipe that dragoneer spoo off your chin.

To quote the message I was responding to, "In fact, why not take an opportunity to thanks these admins for a place to share art and make friends?"

You see, what I was doing is called a joke, a quip, a jackanape, sometimes even a monkeyshine. But let's be fair, I'd gladly pick spoo outside over ugly inside any day of the week. n_n

Oh dear, that came out rather insulting, didn't it? :P

What I mean is that there are much more important things to get worked into a frenzy over than the administration of a website. Even what people do on that website is a better reason. So when it comes to arguments like this I find it much easier on my blood pressure to just make a silly, light-hearted joke instead of getting upset on one side or the other.

Nazis murdered thousands of human beings, I don't think some cartoon animal art gallery administration quite equates to that.


It does. They didn't do it physically, but digitally. All these bans going around for all those users using the mobile apps.

Ok., You know. I'm just going to bluntly say, if you are seriously equating the death of people to deleting stupid cartoon pictures off a website, you need to seriously step away from your computer and get out side of your house for a bit. You're mental set of priorities is dramatically skewed.

ya know the term NAZI means far more than throwing jews in gas chambers...the usage I am referring to is banning of content, ie book burning etc...

the simple fact that the admins here declare you can only post sonic if you draw him the way we want is all thats necessary to equate them to nazis...i mean srslY?

Thank you for being the only one here smart enough to know history and don't think ALL the Nazis did was murder people.

They took items and rights away from the people, restricted access to places and things, jailed them for no reason and et cetera. That is what I was referring these bans to.

Ah, I'm aware they also burnt books, to enforce propaganda and limit sources of knowledge to those they were oppressing, WHICH IS STILL WAY OUT OF CONTEXT when compared to removing pictures of humaniod cartoon characters from a free cartoon animal themed website.

censorship is censorship period

and i still wonder about this...why the sonic ban? other than it was and is popular at the time, much as my little pony is now and people annoyed with that loathe it

so was the sonic ban having nothing to do with cub or under 18, but some admins stuck that in just because they disliked the popularity of sonic?

if so, wow...total censorship based on personal biases, which is TOTALLY a NAZI way of thinking, we have the power and we dont ban it

not only that, but the thing the pissed me off, was they tell you that you can only get sonic pics posted here, if you alter them from how they are supposed to look to meet how we want them to look...

if that is not NAZI behavior I do not know what is, conform or you will be banned

Just...just out of curiosity, can I ask (for perspective of your point of view, well how you're expressing it anyway). How old are you?

33

Or...make your own characters?

I think my use of Nazi is entirely historically accurate. Fascists, originating in Italy and spreading to Spain and Germany was a totalitarian regime that aligned itself with capitalism rather than communism

I could use totalitarian, since the admins here dont seem to give a crap about the user except when they are losing droves of them to rival sites by their own actions....but that is much too broad

Nazi seems best, since they are totalitarian, believe they are always right, promise things they continual dont deliver, expose capitalism, yet enforce censorship of things they do not personally like

as say opposed to SF where they make rules based on enforcing real laws so they and their user do not get in trouble.

so yes, Nazi is a good term. capitalist,but totalitarian, and screw the users who dont agree with our personal opinons

as far as millions killed....permaban = death here

how many people have been "killed" here for not breaking any rules
the 3 strike rule ensures death for anyone posting porn eventually

how bout the people killed here because they appeared on a talk show, because FA is somehow the moral voice of furrydom and people actually saying they had sex in fursuits means a permaban/death, wow

I have 1200 watchers, i dont want my account killed...really....but I see it will eventually happen...one admin making one more random decision that dont like something i post and WHAM, im dead here with no explanation to my watchers

same as shipping this account off to a gas chamber

again dont have these problems on IB or SF or even Deviant art, because none of them have rules that involve the admin feeling a certain way about your artwork....

and again no warnings before i got either of my 2 suspensions...been here 2 yrs, 500 submissions, 2 got me 2 strikes and suspensions just wow,,,,and so yeah, total NAZIS

...removing accounts of people who rape the servers with an app is as bad as murdering over 6 million people...
Not to count the people defending the country from the Nazis. Like my family did.

I'm not even Jewish and I find your statement so incredibly offensive that I just don't know how to fathom how you can even think the two compare. Just stop posting, you are a moron.

yes, because the nazis didnt start a world war, didnt promote evolutionary racist values, didnt strip away civil rights, including freedom of speech, all they did was kill jews

i am jewish, and this is all so backwards. and just downright upsetting.

both sides make good points. but both sides are over using terms, embellishments and much more so they can win..

and i have to ask win what?


I think FA should make much clearer rules. and have a small separate bored for appeals. or at-least ensure that its a different person dealign with the appeal.

Also one is aloud to make fan based, parody based art and writing, as-long as they declare it not to be owned by yourself and its fan made not representative of the company ect. ect.


Why do we all have to get into peeing matches?

Also this site is obviously not meant for kids... so why not do what DA dose and have more maturity setting so we can each decide what we don't mind seeing?

maybe its not possible but its worth a thought right?


Also stop useign Nazi. Nazi is a person or member of the nazi party.... i think the founding members are all dead by now. and unless someone is a neonazi or an off-branch of a group still being active, then im fairly confused in your used of the term nazi.

also i find it kinda sick we could possible compare the starvation, beating, torture, slavery, castration, killing, murdering, medical experimentation, rape, cruelty, oppression, and much much more of the jewish and "other lesser races"and those with medical, mental and physical disabilities to something as pathetic and mundane as spelling grammar and issues like this.

Do people not have a perspective on life anymore? seriously.

Agree. 100%

thankyou.

People kill people all the time, big whoop.

if the rules meant anything at all theyd ban themselves for drawing characters remotely resembling and bastardizing copyrights from big companies that dont see a penny of the money some people charge.

seeing that kind of justice done onto them would be hoping too high,.. i mean,.. seriously,.. if yur gonna stretch rules to harm some poeple,.. you best be doing it to yourself too to be fair

drawing copyrighted characters is actually within fairuse, especially if they are engaged in sex, that could clearly be defended under parody

Umm, no. Drawing copyrighted characters engaged in sex is not within fair use, and is the most likely way of bringing the copyright owner's legal hammer to bear upon thy noggin.

um, no sorry to tell you,.....supreme court decided an actual living human being engaged in sexual acts was fair use for parody....see Falwell v penthouse, supreme court case,

public figures, irl are fair grounds for fair use, cartoon figures are even more so

know the law before you sayz styff

Perhaps you could provide a citation to that?

The only Falwell vs. Penthouse case I could locate was when Falwell filed a $10 million lawsuit against Penthouse Magazine for publishing an article based upon interviews he gave to freelance reporters. There was no parody involved, and the case never made it to the Supreme Court. The suit was dismissed on the grounds that the article was not defamatory or an invasion of Falwell's privacy as he willingly gave the interviews.

Now there was a suit between Falwell and Larry Flynt of Hustler Magazine that involved a parody ad for Campari liquour. That suit did reach the Supreme Court. The ad was a fake interview with Falwell with him claiming his "first time" was with his mother in an outhouse while drunk on Campari. The three points of the suit included: invasion of privacy, libel, and intent to inflict emotional distress. The first court jury threw out the first two points, but did find on the third with an award of $200,000. However, the Supreme Court even threw that ruling out based on a First Amendment protection that prevented attempts by public figures to recover damages based on emotional distress suffered from parodies. The decision strengthened free speech rights in the United States in relation to parodies of public figures, but there were never any copyright issues addressed with that ruling. (A copyright violation filed by Flynt against Falwell for republishing the ad in a letter asking for donations to cover his legal bills was thrown out as the use by Falwell was deemed within fair use.)

So, my dear sir, I would throw your own recommendation back at you, "know the law before you says styff". I would add to that, know what court cases your citing and the reason for the case, and what the decision involved in the case truly means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hustle.....ine_v._Falwell

STFU

there is it, nuff said

so my dear sir, if actual living human beings are allowed to have sexual parodies of themselves by 8-0 vote by the supreme court, do you really think that cartoon characters under similar circumstances have a greater support under the law?

I do believe that was my second citation, and my statements still stand. There was no issue of copyright or trademark infringement brought up in that case, thus your implications are invalid. Your best hope is that an attorney might be able to apply that case should a person be brought up on copyright infringement charges, but that certainly is NOT the ruling you claim it to be.

(Ever notice how most pseudo-attorneys get so defensive and belligerent when proven wrong? Oh well...)

uh no you are totally wrong.

in the case I mentioned you have an actual living person being defamed, a person whose actual character wad actually defamed in parody by having sex, i believe with their grandmother, or some such thing...

this PALES in comparison to parody cases of fictional characters having sex with other fictional characters. If a real life person is total parody fodder for cartoons, then actual cartoons have even less grounds under parody/fair use laws...

if you can portray a living person and degrade a pastor as having immoral sex, by a unanimous vote by the supreme courtm are you really saying we cant do sonic, a fictional character by the same method...really>

u sir are totally wrong by common law

And you, sir, are drawing erroneous conclusions based upon a single court case. First, there is minimal legislation concerning parody. Legal references to parody existed only in common law until the 1976 Copyright update when a section included references to parody works. Even so, the use of parody is determined on a case-by-case basis. But the use of parody does NOT preclude a violation of copyright or trademark infringement.

In Folsom vs. Marsh, the court found for the plaintiff in a copyright violation with the following comments in the finding: "In short, we must often... look to the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of the materials used, and the degree in which the use may prejudice the sale, or diminish the profits, or supersede the objects, of the original work." Disney and others typically cite these reasons when they bring notice of copyright or trademark violations. When characters in copyrighted works or trademarked characters are used in a manner inconsistent with the intentions of the copyright holder, such as sexual situations, then the prejudice and diminish aspects are brought to bear. In this regard, cartoon characters actually see greater strength in legal protection than real life people.

So to summarize, if you use a copyrighted or trademarked character in your works, you may be subjected to time in court to prove your use is a parody and doesn't impact the original character by prejudicing others against the character or diminishing the ability of the copyright holder to use the character. The court may indeed find for the artist in one case, and find for the copyright holder in a different case. You're claiming it won't happen, I'm saying there's a possibility it might. On a legal footing, I think I'm making the more accurate assessment.

sure i could spend time in court, it'd give me fame for sure, that'd be awesome, and theres various institutions that would be glad to help with the defensive

also cartoons in sexual situations are probably more protected than clean pictures of said characters, because they uphold the main aspect of fair use, it being transformative from the original material, and the case can easily be made that sexual depictions of characters parody the actual characters, which also has precedence for protection

and actually you are wrong on another account, Disney would be the one that would have to prove it impacted their business, not me. They have the burden of proof on that, which again they would lose, because single frames of an artwork even if done all over the place, which in fact they are, have not seemed to harm their business but in fact enhances it...there are movies and cartoons Ive watched solely because I saw porn of them, which introduced me to those works

And there are people who refuse to watch a character because they've seen them in a pornographic situation. It depends on the person involved. Yes, you're right, it is the plaintiff's job to prove the allegations. But, and this has happened, all they need to do is convince a jury that it has, and juries faced with porn examples tend to find for the plaintiff. But I think we've beat this topic dead. It was nice arguing with you! Heh!

in fact, its amusing that Disney got popular by using characters from other people's stories, Snow white, cinderella, little mermaid, hunchback of notre dame, etc yet then got the copyright laws extended so they would be copyrighted for like 120 years instead of the original 22 yrs in the US

yes tho i am going by the FA rules,.. specificly,.. if they went by them,.. theyd have to clear their own galleries for such an infraction or be banned,.. but since they dont give warnings and they just issue strikes,.. they should just ban themselves

You know, it is far better when you feel that a rule is ambiguous or vague to ask a moderator or an admin to clarify it than it is to whine about it's vagueness.

personally, i've read them and they don't seem vague to me at all... they seem pretty clear.

so, the question is, what did you do that earned you those two strikes? from what i understand, you have to violate the rules pretty badly and/or lash out at the staff in a rather nasty way to earn the ire of the admin team to the point where you'd get a strike.

One problem he pointed out, and the one I agree with, is that the staff rarely ever reply to anything. Complaints, questions, RP requests, anything.
Unless they just never reply to my few artist friends when they send messages. I understand that they probably get a good bit of spam, but they are the admin's of this site. I hear nothing but bad things about the FA admins. I don't have my opinion quite yet, because I've yet to encounter much of a problem with them, but I've heard enough bad stuff to make me a bit wary of them.

Well, the lethargic response times i do agree... it was pretty bad in the past but that's what this new staff was meant to help address so going forward we shouldn't see that same lack of response ideally.

but, when it comes to contacting the staff via notes, before they were very much overwhelmed... i am not a mod but i know a couple and have had some brief conversations with them and the stresses of the constant backlog and the angry user-base (because of the inability to respond in a timely manner) was a definite concern (and sadly, a couple of them got burnt out and turned into those mods that didn't pull their weight.) so, in the previous cases of contacting a mod, chances are your note would have been lost in the morass.

but, given that they've substantially increased the staff numbers, that shouldn't be as big of an issue... granted, they still have to play catch-up and i'm sure that unless it is an urgent thing one's personal notes to the staff might be lost (since a lot of people decide to avoid using the trouble-ticket system and go direct to a moderator with the issue which is not the ideal solution.)

and yeah... it wasn't run very well in the past... but, most of the issues can be attributed to either bad moderators (such as the mods that let their power go to their heads and acted irresponsibly and VERY unprofessionally and needed to be removed from staff) or a lack of moderators... so, from here on in the hope is that things should get better.

i mean, this IS one of the largest art sites and it is THE largest furry art site that lets you post mature/adult art... so, in a sense having a small staff of less than 20 in years past was just a bad thing altogether, this new roster should help (Even given the attrition that's going to happen since i am willing to bet that some of the new mods will probably quit after a few months there ought to be enough to be able to keep the site running a lot smoother than previous years.)

and this is coming from someone that was very critical of the site (even to the point of pissing off Dragoneer himself a couple times.) so, i've had my fair share of the staff's ire being directed at me. (though i am aiming to change that since i've noticed that assholes, mean people and the "negative nancies" tend not to be able to make positive social connections... and i'm definitely trying to be a better person since my previous behavior was, admittedly, bad.)

Well I did complain about the vagueness in the rules when they rewrote them. I was blatantly told by the admin that they LIKE the rules vague in order to handle new situations, which is frankly bull. The only reason for vague rules is to give admins discretion to do what they want and ban random things. I seriously think many admins here have a powertrip here. I have and either dont get a response, or in the two cases they did:

when when the under 18 rule was first set out, I asked dragoneer about the massive implications, like specifically said it could kill fan art, since most characters are under 18 mentioning sonic specifically, and also feral art since most animals dont live to be 18....his response that such things were ridiculous...a week later sonic, looking like sonic, is banned. Which goes back to the powertrip...anyone think that admins demanding canon characters, like sonic, be drawn in a certain way or they cant get posted is an abuse of power? draw how we like or you cant post here. wow

I also asked if posting my TMNT comic was ok here since um look at the name of the group, teenaged, and if its not allowed, I wont post it here...the admin refused to answer and claimed I was threatening FA by threatening not to post something that wasnt allowed, wut?

what did i do? all i did was post the particular pieces and wham suspension. Hate to tell you this, but admins do give out random suspensions just for posting things...so 0.4% of my gallery marks me as a problem user

Its these interactions that make me loathe the staff here, distrust what they say, and believe that some day I will get randomly permabanned. Ive already been permabanned from the forums for asking why dragoneer reversed his decisions about sonic and feral art within a week...in fact Ive asked that repeatedly and have never gotten an answer, did get permabanned, because my post sounded angry, oooo that's a reason for permabanning someone?

now compare that to SF and IB...never had any problems there...did get some inuysasha pics removed from IB, but they were very nice about it and learned their rules better how they handled it..and IB has very clear rules. SF did also

I'm going to respond in a point-style per paragraph... seems easier than quoting in each instance.

1. well, i will admit that if a moderator or admin did phrase it that way, that's not really admirable... but given the sheer breadth and width of what this site has in the ways of art, it would be impractical and practically impossible to list out every concievable permutation and interpretation of the rules that it would discourage people from reading them so they know what rules to follow.

2. That one i would say is not so much against the site itself but the perception of what the characters are... it's a very tricky balancing act when you think about it because all it'd take is one pissed off person to report the site to the authorities and the staff could be caught up in all manner of legislative hell trying to iron out all the kinks... so, in that respect, i do think that if it could be viewed as a minor (as is the case with some fan-art) I think they realized that standing on the side of caution is the better option... besides, sonic fanart is in the clear minority here when you compare it to all the possible art styles and influences that are here so if they were caught up in legal hell, that'd technically punish everyone else for the mistakes of a few and that's just not cool.

3. That one i would suggest taking it up with Dragoneer... because if a moderator was refusing to rule on something and then turned to a persecution complex as a result, that's a sign that they could (at the very least) use a couple months off to decompress... but, since there is a new cadre of staff, that kind of issue should be less likely to happen. (and if it was Dragoneer himself... well, in the end this is not a democracy and if you truly feel that he's got it out for you, there are other sites out there that are just as viable. it's a pain in the ass but it's easier to change your habits than it is to force other people to change theirs.)

4. it hasn't been my experience that they do this... to be honest... unless they have a reason... that reason could be that you've become known as a problem user (it happens... and these kinds of people make the site experience lesser for those that aren't.) or it could be that your approach of the subject was viewed as excessively hostile... too many factors that i don't have access to so i don't think i can reasonably address this in any measure of completion.

(the rest seems to be in no need of a point-by-point response.)

in the end, all i can really say is that if you feel that your user experience here has been something which has left a bad taste in your mouth, you can either try and address it (which could be fighting an uphill battle,) cause a big fuss (and end up in a worse state because they do have rules about harassing the staff) or you can just go somewhere else... nothing saying you have to be here and if you are not enjoying your stay, why stay? it doesn't seem practical or sensible if you cannot do the first two approaches... but, continuing on with the complaints is probably not helping your situation given that it's well known that there are some people that just want to try and discredit the staff here and cause drama because they are, essentially, bullies... so... that then begs the question... are you going to try and address these concerns in a calm manner or are you going to leave? because if you choose to cause drama, that's not going to get you anywhere and will just make you look foolish to be completely blunt.

well following this as best as I can...

1. No you are wrong...both SF and IB have very concrete rules. It is really not hard to establish concrete rules so users actually know what to post and what they can't..."under 18" is kinda crazy...for the simple reason that its not even rationally enforceable in real life...stores card people now who look under 40 to catch those who are actually under 18..do you want to apply THAT standard to cartoons? 90% would be gone

2. pshaw...no ...apply said rule has no basis in real law...the ONLY laws out there involve human characters, so just ban human characters under 18...there are no laws that ban under 18 furries or animals anywhere in the world so far as I know since it would indefensible...most animals dont live to be 18..so no legal hell, if they were ever called upon by a court, it could in fact be a easibly winnable thing, oh this fox is underaged, well what age does a fox become mature, oh witness - 1 yo... dismissed, victory for all furrydom, donations pour in...

3. they were dismissed...but still leaves one strike on my record as far as I know...bad admin decisions of the past do not matter, now im a trouble maker yay for 2 posts out out of 500

4. your experience obviously does not include bannings....when you get your first ban because you posted something you thought was within their rules (both unwritten and written) like ferals pokemon and digimon are ok ( unwritten rule for 2 yrs) and then get banned for a feral pic, this is obviously not my fault, since I thot it was ok, and do not post things that clearly violate the rules on any site...but to get a suspension for someones interpretation of the rules (they were new at the time and stupid and did not last long as an admin)...but did the site ever apologize for their actions? no.,...

and no....sorry, not going to leave the most popular furry site because the admins are stupid, make vague rules, and generally piss off the artists who create their site...i'll stick around till i get my third strike (even tho SF has 30% of their traffic and IB has another 30%)

now, totally preparing for that, advertising myself on other sites and created my own site with subscriptions to new content for when that happens...so when they ban me from here, which I expect will someday happen, I can rant about how FA sucks to my 500 plus active watchers on MY site, not to mention IB and SF

sides all that, IB is now my most important site, as I have the most watchers there, 1400 vs 1250 here, which is what i have been striving for since FA enacted these vague ban anyone we want rules

and no....sorry, not going to leave the most popular furry site because the admins are stupid, make vague rules, and generally piss off the artists who create their site...i'll stick around till i get my third strike (even tho SF has 30% of their traffic and IB has another 30%)

Then might i suggest you shut up and stop whining like a spoiled brat? because, that's kinda what you're doing right now.

So, since i have had a chance to calm down (i am allergic to brats. trufax.)

1. I have little experience with so furry or ink bunny... but do they have rules that outline all possible outcomes or have they ever posted anything with the line "to the discretion of the site owner/moderator/staff?" if so, then your claim is false.

2. this is the same bullshit rationalization that kept being circulated when the cub-porn brou-ha-ha kept circulating. If you want to look at pictures of children in sexual situations, go to Ink bunny because they have no problem with pedophiles.

3. so, you agree that you had one mod strike overturned... and yet you're still claiming that you are targeted by the entire site and that they're all bad mods? wow... that's a mighty big persecution complex you've got going... here's a tip, stop playing at being such a pariah. your life will be better because of that.

4. so, you danced on the line and now you're whining that you fell off to the wrong side? wow... i guess the phrase "on the side of caution" never once crossed your mind, eh?

as for the last one... i am willing to bet i can peg exactly why you would refuse to leave and are (essentially) inviting a total ban... because you have this persecution complex set up where you cannot accept fault and by you being banned, even though the site has been improving, you can then go "see, see i told you so! they are just a bad site." not once understanding that rules are rules and if you don't want to follow them, then you will find yourself without a voice here... THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY... this is, technically, private property and if you dislike the way things are so badly as you seem to, leave. you don't have to like them but in the end if you are only staying here because it's the most popular site, then that means you have already decided that your personal integrity is less important than the exposure you'd get here. continuing to stay and bitching like a bloody child all the while will only get you negative press...

and really? your own personal "for pay" site? 9_9 yeah, go... you do that... go for it.

1. no rules can outline all possibilities, but inkbunny has rules that reflect the actual laws against porn. It simply says no humans, anything else goes...

SF's old rules did the same no humans or human-like (elves for example) porn that is under 18

This reflects actual laws because there are no laws about under 18 furries or animals, as that would be, to quote dragoneer, ridiculous.

2. No, if this site wants to ban cubs, FINE. Ban them, have no problem with that. But stating applying an under 18 rule to animals, their hybrids (furries) and cartoon animals is ridiculous. Ban cubs, fine, but how do you determine if a furry is 18 or not, card them? Not to mention animals age differently than humans...Sonic is declared to be 16, but he is for all intents and purposes an adult. Not to mention those declared ages are arbitrary and generally made to appeal to the group that is buying the games or comics. PS - Mickey Mouse and Sonic have almost the exact same design minus the "spines" what makes one 15 and one 50+?

Also I would hardly call someone who did a picture of Sonic cub and those who liked it, which is a huge fanbase pedophiles, anymore than those who like MLP. The fact is I only started doing Sonic pictures at ALL because of FA having a category for it and wanting to get more watchers, so add that to your twisted logic

3. I havent had any "strikes" overturned, the appeals were never answered except by the same admin who made the suspension, basically saying they were not wrong, fun huh? thats how appeals should be handled. And there is no time limit on those 3 strikes which is another stupidity of the rule...its purpose seems to destroy artists on here, since anyone who does porn will eventually get 3 stikes given enough time.

4. 2 pictures out of 500 is hardly dancing on the line, that means I am not a problem user and am attempting to follow the rules here, but when they are vague and whatever an admin feels like that day, then who knows whats ok and whats not, other than not to post porn at all, as said it basically targets most fan art and most ferals...take the new thundercats...only three of those characters are over 18 probably, so no lion-o porn here? kinda stupid

also as an example, I am planning a comic for a story where the adult furs age like normal animals and so the canines die at 15 yrs old and are adults at 3...I CANNOT POST THAT COMIC CONCERNING ADULTS HERE...is that stupid or what? its a story about mostly about magic and action, but some sex does occur, so its censored here and the aging part is critical to the story, so that cant be changed, so do you support that kind of censorship? because that is why I am "whining" it is pure censorship, not based on laws or legal protections, but merely on the whims of admins and vague rules

and no I dont want to be banned here, I actually want this site to make decent rules that are written down and can be understood and easily followed like SF and IB do. if they dont want cubs ban cubs. But the fact is the rules are not clear and allow multiple exceptions and unless you follow discussions on the forum, which I do not, you do know these many unwritten rules, like cub pokemon and digimon are ok to post here simply because they do not have a defined age so that allows infantile looking pokemon to exist here.....those are the kind of rules I am complaining about also.

when the rules are not written down or vague like here, they cant be followed can they? what I think looks over 18 may not be what you think looks 18, since another thing is that ANYTHING CUTE CAN BE CONSIDERED UNDER 18....almost universally i think neotenous human features are what humans think are cute, big heads, big eyes, and small noses. These are infantile features and by definition could be considered under 18, so if you make a cute character, guess what, so they just banned cuteness as well...

and again no...it has nothing to do with personal integrity, quite the opposite, why should i leave my watchers here because a lot of the guys running the place seem to be jerks (from their prior actions) until I am forced too...and while this may be private property, it is not a site only for the admins, without the users and artists it would be an incredibly boring place, this is a social site and social sites that do not cater to their users find themselves empty, see AOL, also once the most popular site and now its a place for bots

and wrong again, free site for my art where i can post the "humans" IB doesnt allow like inuyasha, and sonic that FA doesnt allow

and really your attitude that anyone that complains against really stupid rules should just be quiet?

how will anything improve then if no one calls attention to abuses and flaws in their rules

your love it or leave it attitude is rather naive and stupid

There is a big difference between merely bitching and offering constructive criticism.

my perception that you're merely bitching is because you don't seem to be offering any room for improvement other than "do it or else i'll think less of you" and you're framing it in such a way to make yourself be viewed as the hapless victim here which is erroneous because you yourself have admitted that one of those strikes was later reviewed and deemed to be invalid... yet, you're still latching on to it to justify your hostile attitude towards the site.

the people that run this site (and every other site in the world) are human... and people make mistakes sometimes... to me, that they reviewed and negated one of the strikes against you is actually a positive point towards them because it says that they are willing to try and correct mistakes.

and lastly, if you're just bitching about a site as opposed to trying to offer constructive criticism, then it makes me think that you are not enjoying your stay here... and your insistence to remain even though you feel that the site is hostile towards your personal artistic drives strikes me as unnecessarily masochistic or making yourself to be a pariah because you might just be one of those kinds of people that delight in being miserable and gives you something to hate.

if we can get past this antagonistic attitude, there is an opportunity here... but if you insist on latching on to this antagonistic attitude, understand that it is highly unlikely that anything constructive will be done to resolve the reasons for your anger.

when the admins dont seem to listen, and blatantly tell you that they want the rules vague to have more power, then well not much you can do about that

and i have offered constructive criticism, for instance, JUST BAN CUBS...and place a time limit on the 3 strikes rules, so a strike from 2 yrs ago isnt threatening users with permaban

and no, again no "strike" was negated, dont know where you are getting that one was

when admins act like that, they dont listen, and the general attitude is the admins are always right, then its hard not to feel antagonistic to them when you receive suspensions for things that did not even break any rules...as said a censored version of sonic with a big black bar over all the naughty bits, because the admin KNEW what was under it, um surree..and a feral cartoon deer with horns (ie sexually mature) --at the time all ferals were allowed in one of those unwritten rules they have here

really? because that's a rather damning accusation you're making so i'm going to call you on it.... Prove it or shut up about it.

offering constructive criticism doesn't mean they have to implement them. assuming that your voice must be heard by them enacting your "suggestions" is terribly arrogant because they're the ones that run this site... not you... don't like it? too bad.

... okay, so no strikes were negated. my mistake on that one (i thought you mentioned that you had one appealed. guess i misinterpreted what you posted.)

and again... you seem to be taking the position that you're this hard-done-by person but speaking from experience, it takes one of two things to incite the anger of the moderators (not counting the ones that were removed which were wholly unprofessional and unfit to be mods.) you either have to make a serious nuisance of yourself AND break rules... or you have to be perpetually contentious to the point where you become a problem user (and even then they do try and ensure that when you're caught, you're caught on a legitimate violation because that gives them a reason to come down on problem users.)

again, i really think you're trying just a little bit too hard to find a reason to hate this site and it's staff... which i repeat this one simple regard...

If being here is causing you too much stress and you refuse to try and work with the system in place to address them, either shut the fuck up or leave.

because you're kinda giving me the impression that you're one of those miserable types that needs someone or something to hate to be able to get on with your life and the site just so happens to be it... because it's a hell of a lot easier to project your failings on something else than it is to face your own damn problems and realize that you've fucked up... to that i really do hope you can find some measure of peace because people like you tend to be miserable and pathetic in real life because they refuse to even try to fix what's fucked up in their life.

ok....if I went into burger king and was treated the way I have been treated here

which has been:
1. suspended from the site twice for periods for posting things that did not violate the rules, aka a pic that SHOWED NO ADULT matter thanks to black banners over it, and a feral sexually mature mature deer with horns
2. did the appeals thing, received no answer
3. complained and got only a response from the person who did the banning that they were correct in banning man, because admins do no wrong
4. no response from the owner of site
5. permabanned from the forums for asking a question, because it sounded angry (not against the rule) by someone who did not moderate that forum AND had admitted giving out random bans that week due to personal problems

I would complain to corporate and almost any company in america would fire people over crap like that, or at least give me a lot coupons to make up for it....with no 5....that person would definitely be fired in real life

so when this site does not practice common customer service, it is DOOMED TO FAIL EVENTUALLY

when it blatantly lies to its user base repeatedly (and do you really wanna go there?)

these things do involve anger in people....if you think this is unjustified, im sure next time your order is wrong at a fast food restaurant and they tell you too bad,,,,please dont be angry over it or else you are a hypocrite

I would complain to corporate and almost any company in america would fire people over crap like that, or at least give me a lot coupons to make up for it....with no 5....that person would definitely be fired in real life

Having worked in both corporate and franchise places like that, i know that this is just plain bullshit... and you are the type of customer that has (from my personal experience) found themselves banned from patronizing said stores...

your complaints actually do absolutely nothing because at the end of the day, you are only a dollar amount... and one bad experience which has people whining like children (like you seem to do) gets nobody anywhere.

they only give a shit about you and your useless whining if you can make a significant dent in their profits. that is all that they care about.

this analogy is kinda making me think you're just yet one more spoiled little bitch that doesn't have the sense to stop doing something that makes you miserable.

so, yeah... since you don't seem to be willing to see other perspectives as possibly valid and you're pulling bullshit out of your ass to justify your position, i'm done with you.

go cry about it some more to someone that gives a shit.... beacuse, frankly, you've proven yourself to be someone that i find no reason to continue talking to because you are an unpleasant and overly hostile person with a HUGE self-entitlement complex going on.

good day to you, sir.

Okay... I think this conversation is getting out of hand... so, here's what i'm going to do to help illustrate my position that you are being a bit on the excessive and hostile side.

I'm going to take your initial comment and try and rephrase it in such a way to position it so that it is an opportunity as opposed to just a criticism.... I am doing this to highlight the main thrust because i've done customer service and customer retention for years and doing so has (i feel) helped me to be able to cut through the bull and get to the meat of the issue at stake (since most people are too transparent and their motives can be easily seen...)

"I personally feel that there is a need for a third-party system to help address issues of vagueness in the rules as they are currently.

I say this because it feels as if the rules here are too vague in some cases and compared to the main competition, i feel that this brings the overall quality of the experience of using FA as a side down. If there is a reason for this, i would appreciate some clarification so that i can understand better.

As such, i understand that the administration is meant to be held to a higher standard than it's users, but i feel that this standard isn't always higher as there have been cases where i feel a moderator has overstepped their boundaries and ruled excessively harsh in some cases which have directly affected my use of this site. as such, a group or body that i can go to to have an appeals process would be appreciated.

Further, i do not feel that the three strike rule is appropriate because people sometimes make mistakes and having this method haunt it's users i feel is excessive.

Personally, i have been given two "Strikes" in the past and i feel that at least one of them was because of the improper behavior of one of the members of staff. I would like to have a means or method to be able to contest this as i feel it was given in error. I have been a loyal user for years but this is a point which i feel pulls down the overall experience of using the site and limits the potential that this site could hold. As such, this has led to me feeling like i have to caution my friends and peers when they decide to sign up because it is difficult to determine what is permitted and what is not given these rules and the arbitrary way in which they are enforced.

I have been left dissatisfied with the results of previous appeals processes... and i feel there is an opportunity to improve the site for both staff and users alike by revising this appeals process and in cases where the appeal is denied, i would think that a better way would be to give a better explanation as to why. The appeals process currently in place i feel is in need of work because the initial staff member that placed the strike against me was directly involved which i feel is improper and does not allow for the unbiased analysis of the strike itself and unfortunately, i feel that that staff member was unable to suspend their personal feelings in the matter to give a fair and balanced review of the strikes in question.

1. the rules pertaining to art styles that could be questionable i feel need to be looked at and i feel in cases of parody or humour, they are a little too excessive. there can be humour in a situation that has adult actions where the sexualization of the picture is not there. basically, jokes and parody i feel need to be further clarified so as to know for certain whether something is or is not permitted... and if there is to be no clarificaion, i would appreciate a reason. as such, in one case i drew a parody picture and placed censor bars but that was enough to justify action against me. i feel this was in error and would appreciate a means to address this.

2. There is also, i believe, some room for improvement when it comes to characters that are drawin in a clearly mature manner but have ties to canon that would make them be underage... such is the case of one picture where i had significantly aged up two feral deer characters (and made sure to add in features that would suggest they were biologically mature adult deer.) Still, this left me with an member of the staff that felt that they needed to remove this picture and leave a strike against me which i feel is unfair since i did do by best to try and abide the rules... and i would appreciate some response with regards to this as i have yet to recieve a response from the site owner himself to have some clarity in this situation.

as it stands, it feels as if there is too much power granted to some of the staff and i feel that there should be some means to ensure that they are held accountable to their actions if those actions are in excess or used improperly according to the rules as stated.

If there is a staff member that would like to review these strikes, i would appreciate it. an extra set of eyes can help in a lot of cases.

I am concerned, mainly, because it feels as if these actions have left me feeling as if this site is being excessively harsh for some aspects of art and as such, i am concerned that referring friends and peers here might leave me at a loss since my fear is that they will also be subject to a staff member that may not be behaving in a manner that would show both professionality and the ability to enforce the rules with an unbiased frame of mind.

As such, i do feel there is an opportunity for everyone to have these issues clarified so that we can go forward with a better understanding and avoid negative experiences which might affect the credibility of this site and it's owner."

Okay... so, read through it... try and read it in an unbiased manner if you can and just confirm that i was able to address your concerns and phrase them in a diplomatic manner... reason i did this is because from a customer-relations standpoint, when you start off on the aggressive, you will get aggressive in return... but when you start off diplomatically, you're more likely to have a diplomatic resolution.

And please understand that the time in which those strikes occoured could be a factor.

reason being is that there were moderators and administrative people here that were blatant rule-breakers and abused their position regularly... two such mods i can name directly (but shall not because i don't like doing the name-drop) were both removed and their track-record of abuses was well known by a great deal of people that pay attention to these things (one even directly affected my use of the site since they were unable to suspend their personal vendetta against me for speaking against something they felt strongly about... and they took it upon themselves to give me a permanent ban on the forums for something which they have repeatedly allowed for other users... and she even went so far as to state that she was the one that wanted to ban me... which speaks for her inability to suspend her petty attitude and behave in a professional manner.)

so, these two staff members are no longer there... and this new cadre of staff members is meant to address the issues which those others had caused (unprofessionality, petty/spiteful attitudes, overly harsh and unrepentant/insufferable attitudes that outlined that they had let their position go to their heads and needed to be removed from power.)

but despite that, i still feel that being excessively hostile with regards to the way the site is run is unneccessary.

when you have made those points to admins and they say, too bad, so sad, we like our power (paraphrasing) not much you can do but be hostile

and one other thing....i really object to you calling people who like cub art pedophiles or implying it creates pedophiles

I am not a fan of cub art myself, although the rule 34 aspect of it may be amusing, say tiny toons, or gummi bears and all... and strenuously object to adult/cub pairings, especially incestuous ones, but that's my feelings

if you make the claim that cub porn = pedophilia, do you also by that logic claim furry porn = besitiality?

well, if you dislike the whole "being sexually turned on to images of children makes one a pedophile" then don't take that issue up with me... take it up with your local psychiatrist (as i am not the one that had made that distinction the official definition.)

and for fucks sake, if you want to be taken seriously, avoid using logical fallacies to try and deflate an opponent's argument. it earns you no points doing so and actually highlights your inability to actually discuss anything with any measure of legitimacy.

hardly a logical fallacy, if you believe looking at cubs (ie NOT HUMAN CHILDREN but basically cartoons) makes you a pedophile, then it is the same logic that says looking at furries makes you into beastiality.

again, im not really into cub art, altho ill draw them with the restrictions I mentioned for pay

the official definition of pedophile according to the APA: an adult who is sexually attracted to children
how does seeing sonic or even kit cloudkicker make one attracted to human children?

much im sure that seeing wolf furry porn makes one go after wolves

its your statement, not mine, either defend both or shut up about it

my personal favorite porn is inuyasha, this does not mean i go after real adults with dog ears on their heads, its just fantasy, get a life

and if you're so desperate to be banned so that you can justify your irrational anger towards the site, why not invite it by intentionally posting something that is forbidden and do a couple ban-evasions... that's sure to get you banned from the site if not for life, for a considerable amount of time (maybe enough time for you to grow up and start behaving like an adult.)

I am an adult. I behave like an adult. I follow the rules.

But when you are on a site that has unwritten rules, and does not even follow its own rules and their is no appeal to prevent you getting permabanned other than talking to the people who made the bans and insist they are correct, then hell, you just think the admins are bad.

I am not inviting a ban, I really hope the admins stop acting like children here and actually institution some form of customer service, since they just seem to abuse their powers.

I have given the details of my previous two suspensions, I have told dragoneer about them, if there was someone else to go to, I would go to them also, but there is none. Their non-answers seem to support that admins are always right, despite no rules being broken at the time.

I want concrete rules here, like the other sites have, not if the admin thinks its looks under 18

really? is that a rule...you know IRL with HUMANS in actual businesses, that standard means carding every single person buying alcohol or cigarettes who looks under 40!!! to make sure they get all the people actually under 18....is that the standard you want this board operating off of? banning everything under 40 looking? because potentially thats what it means in real life. so really get a life and realize the consequences of stupid rules

and lastly, because I think you have the hots for the admins here who abuse their customers (free or not)

when I receive an apology from the admins here for their past behavior, THEN will i not be hostile to them

till them, they approve of their past behaviors and nothing is improvement.....as

really...you say its improvement, but nothing has changed, but PR in 6 yrs

some day this site if it doesnt change its attitude to it users, it will go the way of AOL and sites that are rapidly improving will take over its place...SF is making huge efforts to do this, and has a stated goal of doing so btw

not to mention they and IB offer far more services

you know SF has actual chat rooms rite...off its site, just click and your chatting

Please do not try and reply... i have blocked you because i feel that you have no interest in coming to a resolution and your hostile attitude is triggering my own anger (towards you) so i am removing the temptation to reply by removing your notification from your inbox so that i can just ignore you from here on in.

i am posting this because i do not like using the block feature but i will if i feel that i have to. this isn't to get the "last word" either... you're just someone that i feel i do not want to bother with and this is the best, most practical way to do so... by removing the temptation to reply and by removing your presence in my inbox.

good bye.

ok...here is a classic example of the unfairness of FA....defend this...

how old is tails from sonic? 12 yr old or so? http://www.furaffinity.net/view/680547/

why is that pedophiliac picture according to you not removed from the site?

because popular artists here are untouchable by the rules

narse had an asshot of his icon for about a year, even though assshots in icons were prohibited at the time

another example that im arguing with my roomate at the moment...

I had a picture of "spike" from MLP removed from during my 2nd suspension...no notice from the admins if that is allowed or not? how old is spike?
considering canon says if you give him a lot of stuff he turns into a full grown dragon...so what is the "adult" status of dragon in MLP?

the under 18 thing is meaningless for this very reason

and reported.

See, the thing about the site is that this place has hundreds of thousands of pictures posted and a small staff (even with the new ones added) so if you're not bothering to report images (and if you're not able to state the reasons and cite the rules that outline why as well as referencing previous tickets that have had action taken against them) then turning around and using them as ammo for your anger, you are basically being a whiny little bitch.

bro

bro

just chill

ps...i have about 500 submissions here...and only 2 offended your vague rules, since I have tried in good conscience to abide by them

so am I to be banned in the future for a 0.4% failure rate?

We can only hope!

funny how IB and SF also dont near the number of trolls that FA seems to attract too

Looking at all the whining you do I can see that's true.

^ lol

i agree with your statement

Dear sir. FA can correct its history in not repeating. A problem that comes needs to be looked twice, not once. I understand the awareness that is going in making a newer staff. I just hope that this won't happen in the far future good sir. People can try to opinion the site in utter comment that is not necessary. Some are limited in bad trashing in comparing other sites besides FA. Some the life live on, problems will in first hand needs to be solved without pains or hassles.
I truly see the will to an expressed compromise to others needs in agreements or change on the statement of the topic since some or not all can see the whole picture in some points sir. Well I really should now state goods parts in deeds that can improve. As history on go's on.

I thank you if you read this message from me. I will want to compromise, so as you, the staff in some others if any in the distance time period happens again on FA.

I'm a FA Supporter so you are welcome to my comment^^
Just as long things go smoothly as all of the FA team plans to agree.
Good luck^^
From SnowWolf1

Given that they've already been working for a month and already handled nearly all of the trouble tickets, I'm pretty sure time has already told.

I've not had a trouble ticket I opened a month ago handled, and I keep hearing that the new admins as well as the old have cleared up tons. I guess I've personally not been hit with this outrageous turn in upkeep of problem reports :(

Lol, a month? Please. I still have some from 8 months ago.

unanswered and still open?
I just heard they apparently had taken care of so many already and wondering if they just missed mine, but damn.

I don't see any tickets from you, at least not any that are 8 months old. Could you note me the ticket IDs?

Yup, hold on.

I just checked, and it looks like most of the oldest tickets are a 4-5 months old. W're currently at 444 tickets, whereas we used to be at 2,200. So it's getting there :P

Ah! Alright. Can't wait till it's down to at the very most double digits, it'd be amazing to have tickets handled almost the same day as you made them. would probably make for a much happier userbase.

We are at present working both new and old tickets, and we have had a good number of tickets turned around within an hour of being filed.

I don't know about anyone else, but weegee06 and sciggles are not either of those things...

Everyone is allowed their opinions. I was just stating what i know, as I've met them both in person, and was the one to invite weeg to FA. XD

Hey - hope you can give me a chance, and see that behind the FA Admin title, I'm just another user/artist trying to help out others on FA :)

Well, I'm 24, so there's that. And asking for a chance doesn't mean I demand you immediately know and like me - it means I read what you've said, and I hope you realize I'm not here to try and abuse any powers granted to me for my own gain, but rather I'm admin just help others users out, whether the problems are small or big - and in the end, I understand that it will take time for you to see that and earn trust. :)

:3 *hugs*

8D *big hugs back*

*Squeezes* All of my lurve for you, weeg!

*hugs back* thanks! :D

Our requirement for applying as a site admin was that the person be at least 18 years of age and have been using the site for at least half a year.

That's irrelevant. Like I said, the admins are not teens.

Wait?
Trust you?
But that's like giving a gun to a baby!

I own and operate my own shop (In real life and on the web).
I've been a web admin on 2 sites (not this one)
Have been a game admin like you, (god you hate the kids on the games so much).

But in any case, treason is not the best strategy of being human in any way.

Voicing an idiot's opinion is like giving a gun to a baby.

Hey I'm sharing my opinion man you can't just stifle my opinion man I'll call my opinion lawyer on you man!!!!

-holds a mirror to Nemo- There ya go! Now you can speak to yourself. >_>

Everyone has the right to his or her opinion, dude. I'm sorry if this offends you.

I like you! You're a cute internet user! You're cute with the words and the typing and the posting.

Since it is my opinion that this dude is an ignoramus, I have a Hammurabic right to that opinion and you are now defeated forever.

Heyooooo, the thousand year kingdom of light and glory belongs to me and not you. Its like giving a baby a gun.

Now that we have a lot of new admins, I'm sure that you will trust them to handle the matter swiftly.

OR DO YOU?!??!?!?!?!?!

Oh burn, I'm losin HP son

Power corrupts. Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

^this

I officially lol'd. Lost it here.

best way to stop an argument is not to contribute to the argument

Continuing to insult, how cute!

I called you cute! You're cute! Just a cutey patootie!

(a cutie patootie who is not permitted in the Jade Kingdom of Mighty Kings, its gates are barred to you forevermore)

I wasn't referring to you calling me an insult. Good try, bud.

I have seen admins of 25 abusing as fuck and seen admins of 13 safe entire sites

I do know one, my brother became an admin at the age of 12 on a gaming server, he has ran the server he is in the high council now and has been for the past 3 years.

The community has 7 or something servers by now, every ''Kid'' can be mature enough it's just they not all act like it
and I can redirect you to their site even.

Their site is www.fotl-clan.ru
They have a string of racing servers on MTA

It's the forum of the servers, they have 7 racing servers or something.
Some of the members are prominent members in RP servers aswell

I used to play this server but I stopped after my stats got whiped due a server error.

In the Red server which is an oldskool server without GM

I find that to be funny, I've seen teens hold their shit better than full grown adults. I was one of them, everyone says when you get older (I'm 28 now btw) you look back and go man I can't belive I thought I was so mature .. yada yada yada and I wasn't. Though I can say proudly I was mature for my age, I was giving things to handle you wouldn't give to most of these teens these days cause they go whatever or just spaz the crap out.

"you know what your actions will do if you take a certain turn. "

This is not true by a long shot... just sayin.

NOT to sound like a prick, but the term "teen" technically refers to someone whose age is a number ending in "teen" IE thirteen through nineteen.

regardless, i get what youre saying. and mostly agree. i mean, if i can legally buy cancer sticks, and pick up an m16 in the service of my country, i THINK i could handle being an FA admin

Not everybody
Some people have a hard time with that logic. Even if they're 18, 19,or even 25 :/

Hah

What logic do you posses sir?

There are a few adult acting teenagers.

What about the teens who have to raise their brothers and sister while going to high school/college and doing a job at the same time

Oh I guess they aren't worth.


Also a website isn't a gun really.

It can get taken down fast as well as the person who made said posts, their entire being on the site will be wiped.

So lelk

I don't want to start feces with you.

I am "stating my opinion".

Teehee~

I was mocking you.

Why are you so angry~

There is a block box right there.

Use it for me.

Waste the time of your little existence, to block me.

If you do I thank you for rewarding me with the time of your life.

You're an idiot.

I know thank you <3

I am no donkey.

Get my "species" right boi.

and you are autistic <:3c

wow. ass.

You made the mistake of attacking the main demographic of the site, so it should be expected, even if unwarranted.

Uh, hello? 18 and over Only.

Technically I get what he's saying 18, 19 is still by definition a teenager (thus the teen part after the number part of the words), and he may have a point that younger furries in position of power do often let that power go to their head, so I can see that, and wanting 'ideally' more mature and older people being administrators isn't an unreasonable thing to desire in rule givers, because their life experience, ideally, would have exposed them to a variety of situations they would have had to deal with and thus their approach of handling them would be backed by more seasoned problem solving skills.

The way he went about wording it is probably the real problem.

The thing is, age and maturity are not interlinked. Plenty of people get older and never get any smarter or responsible, just as I know 'teens' who are more mature than many of the adults I know.
As long as they picked mature people (and I'm going to assume they did), what he said is still wrong.

Well, most definitely, how would you otherwise explain a place like LULZ?

ffffffff *starts laughing hard* sorry, just read that in the great mouse detective voice... with they icon expression x3

I agree. And for onehalf year only com on. Just still newbs still learning the site even. Well, for thoes who passed the Various testing conrats.

Alt account.

They aren't doing this to be "popular".. they're here to do a job. Honestly, if I applied and were made an admin, I'd probably make a separate account too, for my sanity's sake.

I would point out that "demanding proof as to why the staff chose someone" isn't exactly stating an opinion, but I was just providing a possible explanation/reason as to why that was the case.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, but it's plain as the pixels on my screen that you did in fact demand such information, a few posts back, as:

"Explain that Demacia person. Joined January of 2013. And where's the proof that they have experience?"



Honestly, you are a free user. They do not need to explain every minute decision they make on behalf of the site to you. If this were a public-owned company and you owned shares, it would be a different matter. The site has been running thus far. You need to either trust that they chose staff well with their amassed wisdom and experience, of freak out because the sky is falling, and find an online hangout elsewhere.

Demanding proof is pretty much calling into question why they selected him.

I truly do hate sounding like a broken record, but if you look at these new, fairly shiny, empty accounts for admins, and believe those to be their primary accounts and they to be that new, I must indeed repeat the fact that Several of these accounts are alt accounts made just for the task of administrating the website.

Who said anything about being "pestered" on their main accounts? If I were using a site for business and leisure, I'd certainly want to keep the two things separated, for organization's sake. Some folks are organized enough that they can manage it all on one account, but some aren't. Ultimately, that's their choice, in the spirit of doing what they feel is best for them to do their jobs well for the site.

Forget what, the fact that you feel demanding a private company expose their staff's personal credentials? *shrug*

It may not be personal, but it's none of your business what experience they've had. You're not their boss, the one who hired them is. You're not paying them to do their job. You hold no right to poke your nose into their resume. If you have a problem and feel that they aren't doing their job correctly, Neer has stated multiple times you can tell him about it.

Conversation I was specificly referring to -
They're not random people. Some of them have some real experience, and many of them are older.

Explain that Demacia person. Joined January of 2013. And where's the proof that they have experience?

Alt account.

Figures.

They aren't doing this to be "popular".. they're here to do a job. Honestly, if I applied and were made an admin, I'd probably make a separate account too, for my sanity's sake.

Stating my opinion.

I would point out that "demanding proof as to why the staff chose someone" isn't exactly stating an opinion, but I was just providing a possible explanation/reason as to why that was the case.

I never asked why they chose them people. I was stating my opinion, that Neer should hire people more his age, and have proof they've been an admin on another site, so he can trust them not to go overboard with power.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, but it's plain as the pixels on my screen that you did in fact demand such information, a few posts back, as:
"Explain that Demacia person. Joined January of 2013. And where's the proof that they have experience?"
Honestly, you are a free user. They do not need to explain every minute decision they make on behalf of the site to you. If this were a public-owned company and you owned shares, it would be a different matter. The site has been running thus far. You need to either trust that they chose staff well with their amassed wisdom and experience, of freak out because the sky is falling, and find an online hangout elsewhere.

That's not asking why they chose him, and as I recall, you have to be on the site for over half a year. Read before you comment.

Demanding proof is pretty much calling into question why they selected him.
I truly do hate sounding like a broken record, but if you look at these new, fairly shiny, empty accounts for admins, and believe those to be their primary accounts and they to be that new, I must indeed repeat the fact that Several of these accounts are alt accounts made just for the task of administrating the website.

Regardless, being an Admin is a privileged, wether you are pestered by users on your main account to deal with a trouble ticket, it's YOUR job to do so.

Who said anything about being "pestered" on their main accounts? If I were using a site for business and leisure, I'd certainly want to keep the two things separated, for organization's sake. Some folks are organized enough that they can manage it all on one account, but some aren't. Ultimately, that's their choice, in the spirit of doing what they feel is best for them to do their jobs well for the site.

Nothing, just forget it. It comes with the job. That is all I am saying.

Forget what, the fact that you feel demanding a private company expose their staff's personal credentials? *shrug*

It's not very personal, knowing if they have actual experience in running a staff job. *shrugs back* Get off my tail, man or woman, whatever the hell you are.

My comment was specified to that specific strand. You were asking about an alt account. Yes you were demanding proof. My comment was stating simply that you hold no right to demand proof whether it's personal or not.

Considering the admin recruit journal was made before the account was even made, logic would only state that it is an alt account.

No need to get an attitude. I'm just stating something that should be common sense to anyone who's spent enough time on a site.

Transparency is the solution to corruption. Yes, FA is a business, but it is also a social networking site, and as such certain social-moral principles will (and should) apply, such as the idea of the admin working for the people, and not vice-versa. So yes, it is rather pertinent what experience they may have, and what kind of reputation they have. After all, these people are going to be 'leading' you, as some furries might say.

I wouldn't call admins "leaders".

They have volunteered to assist and to moderate on a free site. It's Neer's and Fender's business what kind of experience they hold, not ours. Their reputation will be determined on how well they provide assistance. If anyone has any problems with how the admins handled an issue, Neer has stated multiple times to come to him. This goes for all admins regardless of their experience.

Their main account more than meets this requirement. If they decide to use an alternate account once they take up as a member of staff, the age of the account will reflect this accordingly.

being an admin on another site doesnt qualify you necessarily, you could have been a horrible admin dictator, banning ppl left and right... but you were still and admin on another site :P (aka, check what you want to say before you say it, loop holes are a bitch)

I think your concern is legit (that example, if it were their first account, being a very big one) I just think you probably could have worded it better.

Oh, WELL, then ok then. I guess if people don't seem to be getting the point you were trying to make then it's because you meant for it to sound like that. Carry on then.

Hey, I was trying to help YOU out, whatever..

how does one become an admin? or run as one next time you guys are looking for one? I believe I would make a perfect addition

I think that it should go like this. Put an ad out for expereanced ppl with atleast 2 years of admin work , or manager work. And have a set training evaluation. Idk if it were the same here, but I wasnt happy that I din not pass. Ive got manny words on my chest still about it, but I feel id get banned if I truly express how I feel about it.

I might I might not. Who knows where fa will stand then.

If you don't care.

Why state your opinion.


Golly~

HEHEHEHEHE

YOU SAID FUCK AS A THREATENING MANNER. AND OVER THE INTERNET.


I am sooo scared~

What are you going to threat next~

Make me shut up, do it.

QQ mor pls

Really now? Clearly you left your maturity at Myspace, why dont you go back ther and get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o....._United_States *nods*

pffffffffffffffffthahahahahahahahahahahaha

Lel wut

spacemy still exists <:3c

Okay no offense, but is it really necessary to fill up atleast 30 percent of the comment section of this journal of the with your comments? I was scrolling through them and all I see is your avatar half the time. Just because someone is young,that doesn't mean they are an idiot. Also,you're 22 according to your profile...that's not really old at all.

I never called them an idiot. I was called the idiot for expressing my opinion. >_>

And unlike most of you Furries on here, I am 22, I use my legal age for everything.

Not everyone forges their ID to get whatever it is they are getting and does underage drinking and the like,if that's what you're implying. You seem like you're acting awfully high and mighty to me.

I never implied underage drinking. Why do you stray off subject and bring something that wasn't even said, into the conversation? More so, I am more truthful about my age. Many furries on here use fake ages to look at the porn. Some don't even show their age, so how old would one think they are?

I assumed that because you said "I use my legal age for everything" and you mention being 22. You don't have to be 21+ to look at cartoon animal porn,lol. As for the later, eh I don't really care. You never looked at porn before you were 18? You would be somewhat in the minority. It happens, if they post their age anywhere they get age locked anyway.

Not here, because when you sign up, you have to use your birthday. It's very easy to type in a fake year.
Not really cartoon animal porn. More so, you have to be either 18+ or 21+ to look at porn to begin with, it's the law.

It happens on many other websites as well i'm sure. And uh...yeah that's pretty much what furry porn is in lamest terms. As for the later, most people have seen a penis or vagina or two before their 18th birthday,just saying. lol

I guess that's true too. =/

I would kinda hope so.... I mean, you gotta pee.

I didn't even get a comfirmation email or anything after I filled out the application.

oy. i had to wait two weeks to just to find out that they dropped me. pretty effed up to do that. to get my hopes up, and to then make me wait wich makes them go out the roof, and to find out that i was dropped, just like that. you could imagine just how i feel, i almost dropped fa.

Well, good thing you didn't. Cause you seem like a nice guy.

thanks :3 i am :D. but when somthing gets in my corse, i let it be heard. other than that, im cool with just about anyting.

There are plenty of other opertunities for peopl with your skills and personality. Don't worry, they will come. *hugs* you just have to keep your eyes open.

hugs back. I'm an observant person, ill deff be looking.

That's the spirit. Besides, you can't win em all. Can't change the past so keep going towards the future. No use in getting mad. Just know that they only had room for 20 people. And over 700 people applied. Including me. So, just live and let live.

but i was part of that 20 XD

Well, still. What happened happened.

id rather tell ya in note, and tomorrow, im about to go to bed

Okay nini

Gee, I'm 53, got degrees in Computer Engineering and Electrical Engineering, I've been an I.T. professional since 1988, the I.T. manager at a hospital, have owned my own computer business since 1995, and if I have to ever call tech support, I generally say, "Look, kid, no offense, but I need to talk to another engineer, not a tier-1 tech reading from a script." Heh, I'd be way overqualified for the job.

i agree

Nothing wrong with a teenage admin, not everyone's an immature pot smoker.

..They meant that not all teens are immature pot smokers, not you..........

To me, it is pointless to bring that up, when no one, but that person, brought it up. The immature thing is fine, but the pot smoker was kind of pointless.

Stating my opinion here. I mean no offense to you or to that person.

So sad people dont know a joke when they see one.

Really now? I didn't even mean any offense, no need to get cranky about it, or what is seemingly being cranky.

Not cranky, can't judge emotions over text miss.

And I should add, that wasn't even directed to you, I just replied to the last comment in the conversation.

By that logic, over the internet and text, it's awfully hard to tell when someone is joking. And joking around with something like that is pointless, even if it was a joke like how you claim it to be.

q to the q

Oh? Now you are the one judging emotion through text. Double standards much?

Thanks for trying to help man, some people will just never get it lol.

Thank you sir!

Well I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything here I was just telling them that they misunderstood what the person was saying.

A lot of teens smoke pot. They were just using a sort of ...backwards general assumption.

It is true that not all teens smoke pot and though it was a bit of a red herring I was just saying that they meant the teens and that they weren't saying you smoked pot.

They mentioned that there was nothing wrong with a teenage admin and have a reason. Unless they directly come out and prove me wrong I'd say they weren't directing it at you.

GAVE* NOT FUCKING HAVE.

lel

he blocked me after raging and said "My existence is far greater than yours, worm."


Teehee~

Trying way, way too hard.

I agree with LadyRynn. Totally un-necessary. And besides, the statement is pre-judgemental of teenagers that smoke pot, not all of them are of low intelligence. I just turned 20, I smoked plenty of pot and I am of perfectly average success and intelligence. That said, the average pot smoker doesn't have an incessant need to prove he's an avid Weed user, nor does he parade it around and make snide remarks about those "idiots" that don't smoke so he can brown-nose those who support his cause.

Conclusively, take a look at yourself before judging others, Skittle.

Thank you. I'm glad someone agrees with me, besides for my best friend. Some people just don't get it. And I love how some people make such statements and then claim them to be "jokes." Since when is judging someone to be unintelligent because they do something that is either harmful to themselves or just something you disagree with to be...funny? Especially when no one else had brought it up.

if you can make the assumption that Neer is just hiring no-nothing teens
i can make the assumptions that youre just a immature shit-starter who cant just be happy for someone and accept others besides himself gaining power over him thus being the typical furry drama-bomb.

assumptions are funny little things. arent they.

Once again just assuming I'm a troll *sigh* one day you'll understand.

Your mom never told you about not judging a book by it's cover.

by calling myself a name in which attracts attention both positive and negative attention I gain watchers and favs from either end of the spectrum. making people mad that I chose this name and I happen to be a smart ass is only the icing on the cake.

The fact youre getting mad at assuming I'm trying to make you mad only makes me a troll in your mind.

It's their and my opinion on your opinion.
I respected your opinion enough to give you mine.
What was the point in giving your opinion if you didn't/want expect feedback?

First of all being called an idiot IS the opinion of another person. Second off, no one ever called you a pot smoker. You took their words, and once again made assumptions, out of context. Re-read their statement again.

And last but not least, you came here to complain about 'teen admins' when you have no information to back up that claim. After being publicly shown how idiotic your statement was you now try claiming that everyone else is 'attacking' you. Now either you are just that immature mentally to really believe that or you're making a real thought put attempt to make it seem to others like you actually are the victim here. Either way, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen through your thoughts.

Also, it's rather ironic that you try to make a case against 'teen admins' because they're 'immature' when in fact just acting the way you are about all this makes you seem extremely immature in your own right.

lol i got blocked.

\o/ a winrar is me!

Open this .zip file for m, please! :D

:u okay... *unzipping in progress*

lololol bad jokes.

Teenager Admins, yeah that will really make things better on this site *sarcasm*

Believe it or not, not all teenagers are immature. SOme are rather mature for their age. And we need some maturity on this site.

mature or not, they still need to have their actions done in a non-dickish way and also reason. Reasoning comes with age and experience regardless of maturity. Ive been a Teenager myself and I was told I was very mature for my age, but I was still less experienced in life still.

not that I doubt teenagers can do the job, but I believe people who are in their 20s can do a way better job when it comes to not randomly deleting a violating AUP picture submission and not even give the offender a chance to take it down them self to make them understand its violating it rather than just pissing them off.

And how does one expect to get experience? True, things should be handled properly, and hopefujlly the new admins have been trained in that regard. But you can't get experience without. Trying it out. Besides, there are underaged members in the commuunityb(by that I mean under 18), so they'll have an admin to go to that's around their age group. It's kinda like the hwole job/experience thing. Need a job to have experience, but need experience to get a job.

Sorry if this makes no ense, I'm super tired. And my phone sucks.

It makes sense and I understand but when Im talking about experience, Im talking about life experience, not moderator experience. As Ive grown older, ive become wiser about handling stuff in general. Im not talking about job wise experience, im just saying common sense experience. Personally my common sense has grown tremendously over the years. Ive seen teenagers at conventions who just flat out lack this.

Also you gotta take into consideration younger people who have authority tend to make things go to their head easier. I am not saying older generations dont exhibit that at all either but of what Ive seen its less common to happen then.

this is why I think Teenagers should be chosen more carefully to a moderator position than what an adult should be.

Ah. I figured by your original post you meant we shouldn't hire teenagers at all. That makes more sense.

Some teens have more life experience than most, but a lot are green behind the ears. I know I couldn't have ran a site when I was in high school. now that I've experienced some crazy shit I know how to react appropiately in most situations.

Some people in their 20s are far less mature than a few teenagers I've met. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Read my second comment/reply , I perfectly cover this argument there.

I'm not saying they all are.. Please don't put words in my mouth thnx

Woot, we will see if this sinks the ship or rocks it

but what else floats?

Cherries? Mud? Churches?

A duck!

BURN HER!!! D:

GO GET THE SCALES FIRST!

Ferrox's flot last time I checked

They're part otter.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............
No........
Fox+Ferret=Ferrox

Yup.

Fender has a little otter in him.

*grrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin*

You cheeky little...!

Churches sink, ive tested it.

You do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdDdC4go6c

so it floats, but does it own a BLACK CAT? cause if it does

IT IS CLEARLY THE DEVIL.

just like TLC.

Given that they've already been working for a month before this announcement, I'm pretty sure we've already seen :P

Helperdog

:)

Let's hope no one goes power hungry... It's a shame to see good admins favor friends above what needs to be done.

Sound logic~

Well said, I agree! ^^

All of Demacia is an admin?.. WELL THAT WORKS



also sciggles is an admin?.. inb4idiotscomplaining~