That's crap. This isn't a flea market. It really should be bannable.

So do you oppose people buying preowned games?

I don't think thats the issue, it would be closer to buying a 10 dollar game at a pawn shop and then selling it to someone else for 20. That or on a different scale, paying someone to design a game for you and then selling it for more than you paid, you did none of the work and took advantage of someone to make extra money, when they should have that cash.

I believe your analogy of the pawn shop is misleading, as that is perfect legal and in fact, a valid way of doing business (look up thrifting). The second example is also legal, assuming you have the rights to sell the game. The argument often used here is 'if they want to have that cash, then they should have sold it at that price', it is literally the basis of the market that operates today.

Oh I know its legal, never said anything about it not being legal, and I don't think it should be a banable offense unless the original sale specifies no resale, but its just underhanded. Yeah sure it is how current market operates, just means it works, doesnt mean that its perfect.

A better analogy, actually, would be if you commissioned the artist for a piece and then began to sell prints of it by yourself (depending on who holds the copyright, this might still be legal, but much more scummy).

Its funny because thats EXACTLY what people do. Thats how game companies make a profit.
Good premise, bad example.

That's not the point I'm talking about. Neither is it about buying preowned bicycles, cars or wheelchairs. :V

I've found it to be pretty : ( worthy. I wish I could offer a broader opinion beyond how I feel on it but until people start being precise about their "adoptables" if they even can be, it looks like its going to be a practice that goes on.

Just doesn't feel right to me. Characters are somewhat of an artist's hard work. I'm not always talking bout adoptables, but in same cases, someone would commission you to design a character for them with a bunch of references/descriptions and what not. But selling them off later for more than the price they paid for... I just feel cheated on drawing for them y'know?

I think it is morally and ethically incorrect, for one its not your work, two what effort did you put in for this character? NOTHING!, three you shouldnt make a profit or any money on something that is not yours, its the same as art stealing and maybe selling it as a printable (purchase) item.

It may be morally reprehensible in this case, but people make profit on things that aren't theirs all the time - game companies make profits on the games using concept art drawn by artists - the issue here is who holds the right to sell it and such. If the rights remain with the artist, it makes for a very dangerous argument that commissioners are merely paying the artist for the privilege of 'borrowing the image for their own use'.

That is very true, although a large majority of those artists were deliberately commissioned by the games company themselves to do the concept art, usually the artist is told of the Terms and Conditions of the commission and the uses they are entitled to with it. But if you mean prior artists before said game company, then that I can understand completely. And I completely respect your views on the subject, your neither wrong your nor right. To me it just seems that if there is not effort of the persons own put into a character, not even thinking up of the idea of the characters design, then they are in no way entitled to making a profit off of someone else's idea.

But that's my real only gripe with it to be honest.

Easily avoided by saying the customer can't resell it.

I can add that into my T&C's but then its pretty easy for them to hop on to another and do the same thing.
But y'know, such is the world and some people are just that way. I'll probably just let it slip, if its worth banning for - good.
If not - nevermind.

At least if you did that FA would have grounds to ban on instead of just people doing something morally wrong.

Well, they can technically do that in a way cuz it is their char. Thats how real life buisnesses work, they buy low and sell high, heck thats how the stock market works

If you're seeing adoptables resold for beyond their original price, that generally suggests they were underpriced to begin with. If artists sold for what they were actually worth, the artist would make more money, there'd be no money in reselling, and everyone would be happier :p

Welcome to the free market! That's how it operates!

Kinda like art theft, it'll keep happening over and over and over~
I'll just shrug it off, but just voicing out how unfair I think it is.

My personal opinion; I don't really like the idea of adoptables. I'm not going to say to stop doing it or tell people it's a terrible thing since it is a valid way for artists to earn money. However, I don't think someone should buy an adoptable solely for the purpose of selling them off at a large profit. It's not like buying a mass produced item and then reselling it for a profit since there are many like it. An adoptable is a little more unique (unless it's simply a palette swap). While I don't think it should be a bannable offense, it should be noted and it's up to the artists doing the adoptables on whether or not to deny service to the person.

Just my 2 cents if it's worth anything to you.

I have people who tell me the same thing. I do cringe at how some people spam adoptables over and over and over with designs that are kinda half-done.

But yea its not really my point.

not a fan but can't be avoided since people are driven by money afterall

Yea, and there's so many people out there, sooner or later it'll happen annnnyway~

That's just wrong on so many levels...

It's kinda like trading I suppose. but if you redrew the character in your style and it looked nicer then I say there's nothing much wrong....

lol

Its not really a trade when one side is profiting more money from it.

not really but it's kinda like what buisnesspeople do I suppose? buying and selling stuff?

No. I don't agree with that. My art isn't for resale. So if some one was making money off my stuff, I would be pissed. Ban the asshole. D:<

As a person who adopts characters himself that's actually a Peeve of mine. At the very least KNOW what kind of 'life' you give to the adopt rather than just buying to be buying it. (Though I admit in the past I -HAVE- done that myself) OH LOOK AT THAT RAINBOW TAIL ETC ETC. *BUYS* One week later: I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CHARACTER...I GUESS I'LL GET MY MONEY BACK BY SELLING IT *Facepalms*

Though I've taken my sweet as time doing it myself for some of my older ones (Probably just from favoring newerones) a couple people I've seen are hoarders and NEVER have theirs drawn....its enough to make you wanna smack'em upside the head.

And sorry I believe I've answered your rant with another rant....*cough*

I guess some people just developed that habit of constantly buying characters like a hobby. But if selling it for the purpose of profit, that bugs me.

I say I would have a lot less respect for the fandom, but that implies I expected better :/

There's always a part of the fandom we'll have less respect for~ Don't worry. I feel da same way

A lot of artists who do adoptables [including myself] have the rule that you cannot resell higher than what you originally bought the design for in order to avoid this; but I guess you can't keep track of everyone.

However, like a few above, people can also argue that the character and copyright now technically belong to the buyer as well. And then counter-argue that when you buy the adoptable you agree to the rules the seller set...Annnndd you could argue forever.

All in all, that's just a bummer for the original artists. /:

Yeah your statement just says it all, 'can't keep track of everyone'. Just gotta shrug it off I guess.

Once a character has been paid for (if that's your thing) you should not have the right to resell it.

There's not really any grounds for making it a bannable offense.

Sure, people might not like it and all, but... ya know, you don't really get a say in that. Mind you, I'm not trying to be a bastard or anything, but it's sadly true. They can do that unless stated otherwise (artist's Terms of Service for example). Doing it with ToS that says they can't they've broken the ToS, but then it's a matter of... what are you going to do now? Sure, they've broken the ToS, you could sue them, but are you really ready to do that?

Yea that's true. Can't do anything over the internet. Its like how I deal with people using my art on other websites, I try not to care coz there's always someone out there who rather be a scrub.

Huh... that is rather clever, but still a dick thing to do...

It falls under the tricky notions of copyright ownership again. Once you've bought an adoptable, who does it belong to? Does the artist still have rights to the design?

Personally I don't like seeing them bought and sold like commodities either, but then the idea of adoptables never really struck me as fantastic either.

Well in my case, I was paid to design the character from another. Which I did so, but weeks later...sold. For about $20+ more of the original price I was paid to do it. Then I was asked for the same shit again - a character design, I just rejected it.

The first sale doctrine is very important. While you may see it has disgusting, when you create a work that is intended to be sold to someone else, you lose say over what happens to that character and design. They have a right to resell it.

The supreme court recently ruled on this:

http://www.natlawreview.com/article.....plies-to-works

This should not be a bannable offense. If you create characters for /sale/, you should expect them to be handled as sold things. If you don't like people who do this, feel free to keep an eye out for them and refuse to sell to them. But once you sell a character, it is no longer yours to do with as you please.

On a moral perspective, I see nothing wrong with this either. If you create a character as a product and sell it, you are treating it as a product. You aren't treating it as a person. If you find the idea of a character being bought and sold as immoral, why is it less immoral when you first do it?

If you're worried about the fact that you put the effort into making the character, and someone else is profiting from it, you have to look at the used game market and say, 'Should this stop?' Or ask yourself if buying a second-hand CD is wrong.

If you're not prepared to deal with this, you should not be creating adoptables.

On a side note, purchasing adoptables feels like buying a pre-rolled DnD character. I'd rather just make one myself. I don't know why this is a significant market in the fandom.

BUT what if in terms and conditions to buying the character the artist specifies that they are NOT allowed to resell? Then is it an ok thing to do? Even when you break the rules of engagement for the purchase of said adoptable?

I've seen people try to put that stipulation into their adoptables contract before...and you know what? There's nothing legally binding to that that says you cannot.

unless you're are going to somehow try and keep rights to these characters, at which point no one will want them. I one time saw a contract for some of these that said if you violated the characters at all, then you lost your right to the character, and didn't get a refund back.

No, that's bullcrap. There's no way that would be accepted by said person who did the purchase.

I'm not saying that the re-sale of characters is something that people have to like, but you have to deal with it. Once it's gone, it's gone.

Agreed, what's done is done. Someone out there will always be up to no good, can't keep tabs on everyone.

It's true.

That said, you may not have the best ability of the re-selling of the character, but artwork is something you do retain some license to. Characters are, well, tricky...but the law does support the artist as far as the actual artwork goes.

True true, a good answer to a simple question. I just think it would be polite of people to try not to, if asked. Yes this statement is different now than before, it does make sense to ask more than to ban the re-selling of the adopt. Oh well, I guess there is no harm in asking, but if the request is heard or followed then that (in all fair reason) is the buyers choice.

I certainly agree with you, I think it's kind of rude.

But at the very least, you *DO* have a say on the re-selling of artwork, and that can be legally enforced. The character..eeeehhh, not so much, but the artwork the artist *does* have a saying about.

I'm personally a supporter of the adoptables movement. Not that I think every adoptables creator is highly original or anything (It does get tired seeing the same cookie-cutter design just re-colored), but I've had my own fair share of 'em.

I personally think that the best ones use a default template, but each are uniquely altered, like how Yuuri would do hers. Those tend to be the ones I fall in love with, and want to use the most, ya know?

Yeah, those original 'Limited Edition' (so to speak) adopts are the best cause you know there aren't gonna be any replicas around. :3
Unless of course it is a template, made by the artist for a Closed Species they made, then that's better~ haha xD

I like adoptables, but when I made them, the only ones people would buy were 3 pre-made lineart done ones I coloured. Mind you I paid to use the line art and asked permission from the artist to do so and the line arts had different poses. :/ So yeah, maybe I should just put my pens down and stop making unwanted adoptables...

I... like you.

D'aww, thanks!

Thank you so so much for putting into readable words what my jumbled mind couldn't. Seriously, FA, like button.

You're welcome :)

its horrible when that happens... if they buy it as a gift and give it to someone sure! if they want to sell it back to you because they dont want it after a month or year, sure! but buying it and RE-selling it, especially if it is a one-of-a-kind adopt then no, what the actual fuck FA?

Intellectual property is a tricky matter. Although, you could probably put a clause for your art saying it's not for re-sale. That way, someone who would want to resell a character you've made would have to invest in other art to go with it, since not many are prepared to pay for a simple character description.

Hun you have to put up your own clause that your adoptables cannot be resold.

Also since when did you make adoptable characters? For as long as I have watched you I haven't seen anyone adopt a character from you?

Well adoptables was an example, but in my case, I was paid to design a character. Weeks later, sold off at a higher price. Later on, I was asked to design ANOTHER character again, so I rejected it.

 foxiefoxums has it right.

I'm not too familiar with adoptables exactly, but from what I understand, when someone buys an adoptable, the artist is selling them the rights to that character. This includes all of the rights granted by owning a copyright in the character. Thus, the artist is selling the copyright. When a person lawfully obtains something, they have the right to re-sell it. This is known as the right of first sale. Wikipedia gives a good explanation of this too:

"The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it."

I don't believe you can restrict someone from doing this, even by putting a "not for re-sale" clause in the offer terms.

Then there's also the issue that, in general, characters are NOT copyrightable. I talk about this a little more in my journal here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4300045/

Essentially, unless a character is sufficiently developed (which is very unlikely in the case of an adoptable), then the character is not copyright-protected. This is because the character would be treated as an idea, and ideas are NEVER copyrightable. As such, selling an adoptable that is not copyright-protected means that the artist is selling non-existent rights.

If this is the case, then I really have to wonder why there's a market for adoptable too, since it would be a market for imaginary goods.

Copyrightable, no. But they could become registered trademarks.

The problem with that idea is that its a difficult stretch unless the person purchasing it has some sort of company. Granted, there are ways to deal with trademarks and companies in an unregistered manner, but they're very limited. The 'correct' way to do this would be for the buyer to purchase the design and then register it to his officially recognized company, like an LLC.

Granted, I am Not a Lawyer.

Given the nature of adoptables, I really don't think they could become trademarks. Trademarks are primarily designed to identify a source of goods, such that the consumer can avoid knockoffs or imitation products. They are designed to protect the consumer, not to grant the merchant protections or property interests similar to copyright. Additionally, like you mentioned, generally the merchant needs to pay to have a trademark registered. This is different from a copyright, which is obtained automatically once the copyrightable subject matter is affixed to something.

How do you define a character sufficiently developed? I have 70 characters and have written bios along with their pic I adopted them with. A few are current wip but what is the legal definition of sufficiently developed?

There really isn't a universal standard for it - it's considered on a case-by-case basis. However, there are a few things that significantly help make a character sufficiently developed:

- Pictures and other visual representations of the character
- Distinguishing or unique physical and mental qualities, such as markings, patterns, mannerisms, personalities, or props.
- Works involving the character that focus specifically on the character, such that the character constitutes the "story being told."

I plan on making a journal on this subject eventually, as I've recently been asked about this topic fairly often.

This all depends on the terms and conditions set by the artist when the sell the adoptable. If they say the buyer is free to do whatever the like with the character (or something along that line) then the new owner it within their right to sell it on if they so choose.

As posters above have said it is not legally wrong, and I don't think it is morally wrong either. It's much like if someone sells a game they bought legally after completing it.

You could say that the buyer is not allowed to sell it on after purchasing it in a terms and conditions. Then you would be selling a license to use the character rather than the character itself. (don't quote me on that though, not too familiar with situations in selling licenses). However, doing this would negate much of the reason adoptables are so popular in my opinion.

Should it be a bankable offence, no, because the seller has done anything wrong. Yes, I imagine it would be very annoying to see a character you've created sold to someone else (especially if it makes more money than you originally sold it for). But, if you sell the character and the rights to it you've waived your ability to have any say it what happens to it.

I understand but selling it for the sake of profit? Anyone can just say "I'm selling it cause I have no use for the character".. But doing it over and over and over with much higher prices and the same excuse for everything? Can you trust that person?

Well yeah I agree that is a annoying thing to see, however, it's still not technically wrong or a bannable offence. If the individual is being completely honest about what he/she is doing, bearing in mind what I've said above, then it would be up to the purchasers to decide whether it would be ok to buy the adoptable.

I don't agree with the seller using the same excuse every time. They should at least be honest with what they are doing.

In this situation the best thing would be to make a note about how an adoptable can be used in the future. Make it clear as to what can be done with the character.

Well in my case it wasn't an adoptable. I was commissioned to design the character and all, then the owner sold it shortly after and came to me to create yet another character...and another! Then when I gave up.

Hmmm, yeah that is a bit of a sleazy thing to do. I say don't do business with the individual again and chalk it down to experience. Can't really do anything else in this situation.

Are they selling off art with it? If they are selling off a lot of art that goes with it I can see a higher price... but if its just the character and none of the art that has been made of it with it then it shouldn't be sold for more than it was paid for.

Some is just the character on its own, and with an auction. Auctions can fetch higher prices easily.

I say you're an extremely generous genius~! ^W^

Go for it~! It certainly sounds like something interesting to take a gander at~ <3

Wat?

Ivee seen ppl putting rules on their adoptable saying *U cant sell them more then u paid for and u have to discuss this with me*

In this case u can prevent this kind of stuff.

Well people can do it behind your backs, so I don't bother so much. Can't keep tabs on everyone.

true. But if u see it happens and its crealry in ur rules u could report them or something? I dont know how it works rlly O_O

Don't think it'll matter really.

hmm

I don't like it and its worse if it causes the original artist to hike up their prices, but I don't think it's something that should be bannable because that's just the nature of a market.

Things like SweetSushi's "U cant sell them more then u paid for and u have to discuss this with me" aren't smart because it implies the original artist still owns the character, which they don't. And if they do, then it's not even an adoptable, its just paying for the right to have more art done of the character and/or use it as an avatar.

That isn't fare for you. Adoptables should be sold the price they were purchased.... they only way to get around this is if there is extra art being sold with the adoptable or the new owner trying to sell it has the original artist's permission to do so at a higher price.

Do you have a personal TOS where you state that adoptables must be sold equal to or less then the original price sold? If you don't then they are not breaking a rule with you and you need to make this a rule for future purposes to stop said action.

And if there is a person continuing doing this and it offends you then have them on a list that only you can see reminding you not to sell to that person anymore. You do have the right not to sell something to someone for any reason or suspicion.

Agreed. I've resorted to that.

Not a good trend that's happening....

I have to agree with what someone said earlier that if they're able to sell it for higher than that shows that the artist potentionaly underpriced themselves from the get go.

However the practice of buying and reselling adoptables is in a sense the same as doing it with any other product. There's nothing really wrong with it from a business standpoint. I used to work a Buy/Sell/Trade business with my Dad where people would come in to sell us stuff they no longer wanted and we'd turn around and sell it at a profit.

Now rather often we had people who would express a mild upset that we wouldn't buy their thing for full price. But what they didn't realize is that we have to buy the item, store it in the building, pay for bills, pay for employees, and then RESELL that item at a reasonable profit.

Some people expected us to buy that item at full price which is just PURELY unfeasable.

In regards to the adoptables specifically. I'd advise either making them as auctions and not a set price, it would reduce their profitability from a resell standpoint, or you can just watermark the image to be not resellable and make that part of the terms of the sale that it cannot be resold. Wether that'll do anything or not though is questionable but yeah.

You can't say that because they auction such characters off and auctions go for high prices quickly. I was paid for designing a character with my normal prices.

I don't consider myself a perfect artist, $45 for a fully colored single character is what I rate myself as. I don't wanna charge super high for art that I might even screw up with. It'll just be a bad reputation for me.

"You can't say that because they auction such characters off and auctions go for high prices quickly."

You might wanna clarfiy what that is in response too cause "You can't say that" isn't very specific considering I said several things.

If you yourself don't want people doing this "Profit" auctioning method then I highly suggest that you no longer do character design commissions. Cause I don't think you can legitimately enforce people to never sell a character that someone paid you for.

Another alternative is to RAISE THE PRICES of creating custom characters for people to offset that. People are selling these characters off at auction prices cause you simply undercharge yourself. If you dont' want people making money off you, then don't sell them gold for the price of silver.

If you adopt something for like 10 bucks, and give it away later or sell it for less, simply because you can't find the time to draw said character, then it's fine, at least it gets used.

If people actually start buying and selling these as a way to make profit, fuck those people. Fuck them all with a barbed-wire mace.

I agree..it happened once, I let it slip by. Then it happened again..and again.. I told that person to make up their mind before buying characters. (Or paying me to DESIGN one for this case.)
Yet...it happened...AGAIN. AND AGAIN. So clearly, this is for the sake of profit.

Might be a cheap and tacky move, but personally I don't see anything more wrong with it than selling an adoptable to begin with. Whether the person sells a character that they made, or is selling a character that they bought from someone else, it is still selling a character that they own.

If an artist sells an adoptable for 50, then that person sells it for 75, says to me that the original artist should be selling theirs for 75.

And I don't think the whole 'If you buy my adoptable, it's not available for resale' or 'not available for resale above X amount' arguement is going to hold water. Unenforceable, by either FA or the artist.

Once again I wouldn't overprice my art. I want a fair flow of commissioners and my prices are what I rate myself as. If I were to charge $100 per a single character, I feel a bigger responsibility over any huge silly mistakes I make. I'm not a perfect artist, so $45 per character is how I 'rate' myself.

The thing about when they sell a character is that its an auction, and auctions go up in prices really quickly.

But I do agree, no matter how many rules you may set, anyone can and will break it.

Not necessarily saying that you overprice it. You charge what you think you're worth, people will pay what they think you're worth. In any case, someone else previously mentioned putting any adoptables you're selling up for auction. You'd be getting whatever the buyer thought was fair, and it would probably make them less likely to be resold.

Who the hell buys a fursona?

you mean buying a character wholesale?

...well, it might not be exactly the same, but Disney just did that with Marvel, and Star Wars...

Yeah, but these aren’t the same. You can make up a character in a few moments if you just give it some thought. And it will be yours. I don’t understand why you would buy someone’s pre-made toon. If it was a fursuit, sure, ok I get it… but just the “rights” to a drawing? Really??

That is basically the same thing, the only difference is things like the franchise.

which wouldn't be what it is without the characters.

And it's the rights to the entire character, wholesale. This isn't really that hard to understand.

I could make up my own Darth Vader character, but he wouldn't be THE Darth Vader.

Loony, I think you’re missing my point. There isn’t much value in a random character unless it is already popular. You’re talking about buying well known, billion-dollar characters that have history and a following. Sure, images like that are worth money because they bring in more money. They have a following and a fan base because of what they were in; be it comics, movies, T.V., or the like.

I’m talking about spending $50+ on a random image that someone said they were selling because they have “too many characters.”

Perhaps I see the idea of a “Fursona” as an extension of you, the person. Something personal and reflective of whom you are. I don’t see how you can get that personal feel by buying someone else’s work.

NOt all characters are fursonas, though. Luni is my fursona, but I have dozens of other characters.

And the current value of a character is meaningless. If I were to buy a character, and turn it around and use it to make money, more money than I spent on it, was that not a worthy purchase?

I think perhaps you're missing my point a bit too.

*nods* I think we’re arguing two sides of different debate haha. *Shakes your paw* Draw? (pun intended)

lol, yes, sure. |3 It's not that a healthy debate isn't good once in awhile, ya know?

I personally just do it every now and then, when it's a design that I love due to the artist's style, and to support the artist. Those are usually lowerpriced adoptables, too. I can see how it might be confusing to some. But I see both sides of it. Making adoptables, especially original, well-designed ones, can be fun and good. Pumping out a ton of cookiecutter adoptables, then yeah, I can fully understand the whole "....Why the fuck" mentality, haha~

People do buy adoptables. But 'buying' characters is basically like giving me an idea for a character and commissioning me to design and draw it.

...if this is an April Fool's gag, then I don't get it. What's the punchline? o.O

Sometimes adoptables confuse me.

I'd have to agree with many of the people above that once the person owns the character the original artist has no right to cause a fuss if the person resells it for more later. The only times I can see the original artist having ANY say in what happens to the character after it's sold is if the buyer then deliberately uses it to try and mess with the artists reputation, but you'd have to be seriously messed up to try and do that.

As for the idea of reselling an adoptable being a bannable offense, FA would be very foolish to try and enforce such a ruling. Sure they need no legal reason to do so, but it's a slippery slope to start down.

Business is business. The question I think you should be asking is, do you want your work to be part of that system? Not every artist likes their works to be used for profit, not every artist cares if their art is used for profit, and some would want to partner with the guy. The real question is more what do "you" want your works to be used for.

Personally, I get the impression you would prefer your works to be bought by people that would appreciate them, but that's just my guess.

Your last line is pretty true. That's how I feel as I put in my passion and effort into what I do. But someone out there will always try some dirty tactic to get the best outta you, so I shrug it off.

*nods* I think you should stay true to yourself and say black list the person using your works that way.

We should draw a distinction between "being a dick" and "worthy of a banning." Reselling adoptables is generally a dick move, but there are certain situations in which it might be permissible. Say I'm a writer, I buy a character and write a few hot stories involving said character, then lose interest and resell the character, who now has more fans and backstory, and could be considered more valuable.

This isn't what's happening now, but I think that you shouldn't completely ban an activity unless it couldn't be done "right." People are going to do crappy things. We should just hope that most people are smart enough to not buy secondhand characters at inflated prices.

Said better than I could have.

I do agree, people will be 'people'.

Frankly selling addoptables in itself is underhanded as is if the artist is claiming ownership over it after it's been sold. If the person is reselling as though they did the art, basically lying/conning people, that's the terrible part about it, but reselling something you bought because you don't want it anymore isn't wrong, and that's just what reselling an adoptable is. So it really depends on the situation and how the person is going about doing it.

Also the fact that there's no guarantee that anyone selling an addoptable won't turn around and RESELL it later to another person who won't know that it's already owned by someone. That, imo, is worse than the reselling situation stated above as they are deliberately mass-selling copies of the same work, leaving people fighting over own owns it.

I think if this situation becomes a bannable offence, the moderators aren't going to play favourites and are instead going to just make selling addoptables completely illegal on this site, because there's no way they can prevent people from being con artists if they're allowing the selling of such things.

While in this instance it seema preatty horrible, it's exactly how business works. Also, it's not really the original artist's business in a way, not to sound like a douche. I would never do it but it's not my character so it shouldn't matter. If the second buyer is tricked or lied to in the process how ever, that's where he problems (legal and moral) really start.

I always assume the default position is that resale of adoptables is not acceptable, unless specifically approved by the original artist/designer, and that resale should never be for more than the value originally paid.

That said, not enough artists state this explicitly when selling adopts. And, as a practical matter, it would add a tremendous workload to the site moderators, who are already back-logged on trouble tickets.

Then state on buying adoptables, once bought not able to resale it without royalties to original artist. Maybe add a bit of a water mark or something some where on the adoptable to mark it.

I had a second round of thoughts on this. I'm going to put forward something that may seem initially bothersome, but that, if you consider it, you'll find it useful.

This fellow is buying these character designs from you. That is, he's giving you money that you otherwise would not have. He is then reselling them for a markup. This means one of two things:

1. You could be charging more for your work.
2. His salesmanship is better than yours.

It could also be both. But this fellow has been giving you consistent, additional commissions. He is a persistent revenue stream, and by discouraging him, you are turning that off. This person is not scamming you.

He's being your agent.

Think about it. In most cases with the online artwork passed around on FA, it's not lithographed and put up on someone's wall, as a print to be bought and sold. It's all online. But characters? Characters are recognized (whether or not this is legally strong) as something more tangible that can be bought and sold, since you can create more from a character and owning the rights to it. Characters are the prints of yesteryear. They go up in value as the artist who makes them becomes more valuable.

This fellow is an art collector who knows what the value of his stuff is worth. This is actually a big /complement/ to you. He is getting your name out there and he is doing the marketing for you. Sure, he gets some profit atop it-- but he's doing stuff you don't want to focus on-- marketing, sales -- so you can focus what you /do/ want to focus on. ART.

What's even better is that he pays up front for it. When he's buying a commissioned character for you, you know you're getting that money. He has to take the risk in trying to generate a more profitable sale down the line, and even if he doesn't, your name gets out there just by virtue of the fact that he's advertising your work.

I'd strongly suggest you reconsider your viewpoint on this. You have everything to gain.

I disagree with #1 and I disagree with #2.

My answer to #1 is what I've mentioned above. I price my art based on how I rate my skill in art. And personally I've seen some artists who put in way more effort than I do into art piece who charge the same price which to me does make me look like a less of a preferred choice.

#2, that person is merely just posting it up with a "Auction" text slapped on top of it. Its how she priced it, I charged her $55 for the ref sheet - she placed the price of $45. And this is an AUCTION, its bound to go up really quick.

Personally if I had a choice of selling my art to someone who KEEPS them and someone who RESELLS them off, I rather sell art to the ones who keep them coz I don't want to brag, but I have a constant flow of commission requests everyday. It was too many so I had to close slots temporarily, and even so people still constantly beg me for reserved slots and dates on when I might re-open them. So if you look at it this way, this mere ONE person won't be a loss to me.

And believe me, I do agree she's getting my name out there, however, so is another crowd of people.
Paying up front was a T&C I set to avoid myself from getting scammed. However this person has lost my trust because I was supposed to do a joint commission with them and another commissioner - the other commissioner paid his half, but it was months and months that the latter just didn't pay up despite my constant bugging. In the end I was forced to refund.

The problem is this one person is highly indecisive. She throws a ton of references at me, give me a ton of ideas..I even sketched some out for her free of charge. The next day she changes, the next day she gives another promise, the next day it gets scrapped.. So its the same case with her and characters/adoptables. Constantly buying them then realizing they are of no use to her so she sells them off at a higher price.

To sum it up, I'll repeat what I said earlier. I've got a ton of commission requests coming in.. so losing one customer? Is no loss to me.

Ok. If this particular commissioner is a pain in other respects, then it makes sense you'd want to drop her.

However, your statement that you price your art based on how you rate your skill in art, and that you find you aren't able to keep up with the number of commissions you get DOES mean you have room to increase your prices -- that is, your art is valued more by your customers than it is by yourself. The supply/demand model states that if demand outstrips supply, you can increase price until you find equilibrium. That is, it would make business sense to increase your prices slowly until the amount of commissions you get drops, then go back to the previous increment.

You've got enough reach to let the market decide your price. At your current rate, you are, by economic evidence, undervaluing yourself, whether or not you think you deserve more for your work.

Just something to think about.

I do raise prices slowly as time goes by or when I can see the traffic is huge, but I do want to cater to those with a smaller budget as well, I somehow feel a lil' pity for those.

I can understand that, especially in this economy. Keep up the good work, Katsuke.

This should be bannable. Making profit of an artist work is... just not right.