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Things I learned from watching "Game of Thrones"
12 years ago
- Winter is Coming. Who cares?
With all the good characters being killed off (Jon Snow is stabbed to death, OOPS, spoilers.), we have no protagonists. In fact, we haven't had any protagonists for this series since Season 1. It's all just been a grim, dark retelling of "A Series of Unfortunate Events." Except without the humor. It's a relentless march into despair, with nobody able to do anything to improve the situation. All the while, a monstrous threat is being built up. But seeing as the real monsters are SOUTH of the wall(Oh I get it... humans are the real monsters.. right?), why should I care? At this point the White Walkers, which we will never get to see in battle, are the only ones I can root for. The undead army of pure hatred and ultimate monstrous evil is the least of the evils here, for no other reason that they are the least cruel. They don't relish the opportunity to murder and destroy. They just do what they do. They kill, they assimilate, rinse and repeat. They're basically humanoid animals following their instincts, like a pack of wolves. Oh, sorry. Guess I ruined the metaphor before it was implemented in the books.
- Men are killed horribly, women are raped.
In Westeros, men and women have different roles. Men are murdered and mutilated, women are raped.
For men, it is a divine obligation, a MANDATE, to die in exceedingly, bafflingly horrible ways. If you are a man, there is a 30% chance you will be tortured to death, a 60% chance you will be chopped into pieces or stabbed, a 5% chance you will be poisoned, and another 5% for dying creatively. Until you die though, there is an 85% chance you will suffer some sort of cruelty-related flesh mutilation. Crippling spine injuries, getting your sword hand cut off, having your belly eaten out by rats...
On the other hand, if you are a woman, you WILL get raped. Or killed. Or raped while being killed. Or raped while a relative of yours gets killed. And if your relative is male, there is a 100% chance they will get killed. And yes, this includes infants getting their throats cut. While you are raped. And then you will be killed. Then probably raped again. ENOUGH ALREADY.
As a woman in this series, the best life, literally the BEST life you can hope for is working as a whore in one of the myriad brothels. What does that say about women? GRRM says he's a feminist? My ass. The only "strong" female character with upstanding moral beliefs is Brienne, and they're going to make damn well sure that her optimism is crushed under an infinite landslide of betrayal and disappointments. Also, she's supposed to be an ugly woman. I guess you can be forgiven for being ugly if you're excessively good, right? Also, I don't like the fact that the only reason she's so tough in battle is because she is MANLY. According to these books, a pretty face absolves you of ALL evil. Until the men get rowdy and start looking for a slice of cake, just waiting to be eaten. Oh that's right, I forgot to mention. All men are rapists too. And if a man isn't a rapist, he'll be dead soon anyway.
- It's foolish and old-fashioned to have any sense, however remote, of human decency.
They say you should keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. But what happens when EVERYBODY is an enemy, including your friends? In this series, love and benevolence are things to be scoffed at and outright mocked. Liberating the slaves? Yeah, you'll be dead within minutes. Try to hold on to a moderate sense of honor? Fuck you, you get your head cut off. In fact, the only "fortunate" characters in this whole damn series are the unrepentantly evil ones. Joffrey lasts for three seasons, and he's having the time of his life. And even after all that, his death will be relatively quick. Ratio of "fortune" to "death"...999/1. And when the bad guys DO inexplicably lose, it's almost purely due to an accident, or because of another villain's selfishness or hate. The moral of this series is "Everyone is evil, and there's nothing you can do about it, so don't even bother being kind to anyone or anything, because even your own mother will stab you in the back the first chance she gets. Fuck your morality, evil will always prevail, because good is fucking retarded, the end." Cruelty is rewarded, benevolence is punished.
- "Such is the way of the world."
And that, my friends... is why I am growing increasingly disgusted with GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" and the HBO series based on it. I am weary of his relentlessly bleak notions of life, and his book. It doesn't just make the world out to be a horrible place, it actively DISCOURAGES people from acting in the best interest of the community, or working towards a common goal or greater good. They say that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing. And this book's explicit message is "If you're a good man, do nothing, or we will fucking destroy you." They say that optimists are fools. Maybe we are. But if there was no optimism, nothing would change. Because pessimists never even try. And that's where this point comes in. "Such is the way of the world" is a stock phrase that was used in numerous fairy tales that had no morals, whose only lesson was "never trust anyone." And that's what Game of Thrones is all about. A case example meant to teach people that the world is just fucking awful, and there is nothing you can do about it. And you know what? It's working. It's a foregone conclusion that there will be no happy ending for anyone except the bad guys in this story. There isn't evne the tiniest shred of hope, and as such, I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE PEOPLE. The only real villain this story has... is GRRM himself. So what's next for our intrepid heroes, George? Arya's misadventures in an sadistic pedophile's dungeon? Because I wouldn't be fucking surprised.
Sorry for venting, I've just had enough of "dark and gritty" on television, and in literature.
And now I'm going to go watch The Avengers.
With all the good characters being killed off (Jon Snow is stabbed to death, OOPS, spoilers.), we have no protagonists. In fact, we haven't had any protagonists for this series since Season 1. It's all just been a grim, dark retelling of "A Series of Unfortunate Events." Except without the humor. It's a relentless march into despair, with nobody able to do anything to improve the situation. All the while, a monstrous threat is being built up. But seeing as the real monsters are SOUTH of the wall(Oh I get it... humans are the real monsters.. right?), why should I care? At this point the White Walkers, which we will never get to see in battle, are the only ones I can root for. The undead army of pure hatred and ultimate monstrous evil is the least of the evils here, for no other reason that they are the least cruel. They don't relish the opportunity to murder and destroy. They just do what they do. They kill, they assimilate, rinse and repeat. They're basically humanoid animals following their instincts, like a pack of wolves. Oh, sorry. Guess I ruined the metaphor before it was implemented in the books.
- Men are killed horribly, women are raped.
In Westeros, men and women have different roles. Men are murdered and mutilated, women are raped.
For men, it is a divine obligation, a MANDATE, to die in exceedingly, bafflingly horrible ways. If you are a man, there is a 30% chance you will be tortured to death, a 60% chance you will be chopped into pieces or stabbed, a 5% chance you will be poisoned, and another 5% for dying creatively. Until you die though, there is an 85% chance you will suffer some sort of cruelty-related flesh mutilation. Crippling spine injuries, getting your sword hand cut off, having your belly eaten out by rats...
On the other hand, if you are a woman, you WILL get raped. Or killed. Or raped while being killed. Or raped while a relative of yours gets killed. And if your relative is male, there is a 100% chance they will get killed. And yes, this includes infants getting their throats cut. While you are raped. And then you will be killed. Then probably raped again. ENOUGH ALREADY.
As a woman in this series, the best life, literally the BEST life you can hope for is working as a whore in one of the myriad brothels. What does that say about women? GRRM says he's a feminist? My ass. The only "strong" female character with upstanding moral beliefs is Brienne, and they're going to make damn well sure that her optimism is crushed under an infinite landslide of betrayal and disappointments. Also, she's supposed to be an ugly woman. I guess you can be forgiven for being ugly if you're excessively good, right? Also, I don't like the fact that the only reason she's so tough in battle is because she is MANLY. According to these books, a pretty face absolves you of ALL evil. Until the men get rowdy and start looking for a slice of cake, just waiting to be eaten. Oh that's right, I forgot to mention. All men are rapists too. And if a man isn't a rapist, he'll be dead soon anyway.
- It's foolish and old-fashioned to have any sense, however remote, of human decency.
They say you should keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. But what happens when EVERYBODY is an enemy, including your friends? In this series, love and benevolence are things to be scoffed at and outright mocked. Liberating the slaves? Yeah, you'll be dead within minutes. Try to hold on to a moderate sense of honor? Fuck you, you get your head cut off. In fact, the only "fortunate" characters in this whole damn series are the unrepentantly evil ones. Joffrey lasts for three seasons, and he's having the time of his life. And even after all that, his death will be relatively quick. Ratio of "fortune" to "death"...999/1. And when the bad guys DO inexplicably lose, it's almost purely due to an accident, or because of another villain's selfishness or hate. The moral of this series is "Everyone is evil, and there's nothing you can do about it, so don't even bother being kind to anyone or anything, because even your own mother will stab you in the back the first chance she gets. Fuck your morality, evil will always prevail, because good is fucking retarded, the end." Cruelty is rewarded, benevolence is punished.
- "Such is the way of the world."
And that, my friends... is why I am growing increasingly disgusted with GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" and the HBO series based on it. I am weary of his relentlessly bleak notions of life, and his book. It doesn't just make the world out to be a horrible place, it actively DISCOURAGES people from acting in the best interest of the community, or working towards a common goal or greater good. They say that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing. And this book's explicit message is "If you're a good man, do nothing, or we will fucking destroy you." They say that optimists are fools. Maybe we are. But if there was no optimism, nothing would change. Because pessimists never even try. And that's where this point comes in. "Such is the way of the world" is a stock phrase that was used in numerous fairy tales that had no morals, whose only lesson was "never trust anyone." And that's what Game of Thrones is all about. A case example meant to teach people that the world is just fucking awful, and there is nothing you can do about it. And you know what? It's working. It's a foregone conclusion that there will be no happy ending for anyone except the bad guys in this story. There isn't evne the tiniest shred of hope, and as such, I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE PEOPLE. The only real villain this story has... is GRRM himself. So what's next for our intrepid heroes, George? Arya's misadventures in an sadistic pedophile's dungeon? Because I wouldn't be fucking surprised.
Sorry for venting, I've just had enough of "dark and gritty" on television, and in literature.
And now I'm going to go watch The Avengers.
If she was TECHNICALLY dead, she would actually be DEAD.
"ONLY IN WESTEROS!"
I think I could do without all the incest though. Beaten over the head with that at points.
BASTARDS EVERYWHERE
no, srsly
You're left with basically nobody to root for and the books haven't even been finished yet. Who then would want to finish reading a tale when everybody left is a scoundrel?
I don't think Martin quite thought it all through before he put pen to paper. Still, I'm interested in seeing where it goes.
Jon Snow lives. At least through the 5th book.
considering how often people die of blood poisoning in the series, I do not see him living past the first page of book 6
Anyways that's my two sense worth. Enjoy Hulk smashing Beau.
Magic isn't permeating the very air, and it is treated as something that is truly fantastical and unusual, even in a fantasy world.
In Harry Potter and Discworld, you can't throw a stone without hitting something just brimming with magical power. In fact, the freaking STONE you threw is probably magical.
But then, Discworld is a special example... in that it's more unusual and unnerving if something DOESN'T have any magical element to it. The point is, things can still be unusual, and if nothing is unusual, then nothing grabs your interest.
Harry Potter isn't bad, I just find it to be a little.... hackneyed. :\
The Imp's first love was made into a whore, then raped repeatedly and killed, so there's no safety in that EITHER.
Also, Brienne (if I remember correctly from the books) got captured and hung. So she's dead.
I think you might be overeacting on the "evil always wins" concept. A LOT of good AND evil people get killed in this series, whether in superior positions or in bad ones. I think the moral is more like, "Be you great or small, misfortune befalls everyone. Constantly. Like... right now."
Also... I think you might be looking to the end from the middle, if you know what I mean. Who knows what's going to happen in later books? I completely agree with you... when they ended the last book I read with John getting stabbed to death and his wolf nowhere to be seen and such, I was PISSED. He was like... the last hope of humanity south of the wall and they murdered him. I wanted to kick the author in the nuts. MY worry is he's going to pull some extra strong bullshit out of his ass and say, "Yes, he was stabbed a million times in the face... but now he's immortal and leading the people and everyone loves him~!" This author seems to have far too much fun introducing interesting characters, then killing them off just as they're about to do something good. Remember the wedding at the Frey castle? Remember how for a moment, the dragon girl was defeating the slavers and freeing the slaves? He keeps stabbing the good concepts in the back.
But I don't think anyone would read another one of his books if he let things END that way. So, if for no other reason than he wants to get more commissions to write more books, he's gonna have to turn things around. I'll read one more of these books. If he fails to do something decent in the next one... maybe I won't bother. This series bothers me almost as much as that "eye of the world" series, where the author was writing books of giant scope and size... and then died before finishing the series. >_<
People are tortured non-stop, with absolutely no hope of rescue. There is not even a hint of justice for the hundreds upon hundreds of atrocities committed for no greater good, only for cruelty. If GRRM is trying to make the readers and the viewers lose faith in humanity, he's doing a darn good job of it. It's not only tarnishing my faith in the characters, it's disillusioning me something fierce.
The worst part of this is that people fucking ENJOY this march into sadism and voyeuristic torture porn and psychological abuse. I've been writing a fantasy novel myself. At least, trying to. And if this series is ANY indication of what the readers want in fantasy, I am going to give up, because sadistic voyeurs like that are not the people I want to cater to. Mark my words. After this series is complete, there will be hundreds of copycats trying to top each other for "most horrible shitsack world" settings, with authors having sort of a "harms race" to determine who can create the most reason-defying atrocity ever depicted in fictional media.
That is what angers me about the series. It pisses in the face of all that is good and just. It is one of the many things that are killing optimism today. I've witnessed it myself. I've spoken to other people about the nature of humanity, and they laughed in my face when I uttered the notion that in general, people are good. In fact, a couple of people, I won't say who, explicitly told me that my optimistic views OFFEND them. I have been banned from a couple of AIM chat lists because I believed more strongly is optimism than pessimism.
That is what makes me sick. Optimism, even now, in the real world, is something to scoffed at. Something to be snuffed out like a grease fire before it spreads.
This is the sort of thing that just makes me want to give up. Not just in trying to brighten peoples' day, but give up IN GENERAL. You may have noticed that my art has featured a lot less humor, a lot less JOY lately. Well, this series, as well as the general atmosphere and attitude of people I've been talking to, is the reason. People don't want faith. They don't want positive outlooks. They just want to hurt things in their fantasies. If this is what people want, if this is what people ENJOY, then life is worthless.
Fuck.
Jon Snow comes out on top in the books (and is starting to in the show)
The fat/whiney guy that is always with Jon comes out on top too.
Bran Stark comes out on top in the books (as does Hodder and the wildling girl --)
Danaerys Targaryn comes out on top, so far, in the books.
Cateyln Tulley kind of comes out on top after the wedding... it's iffy to see what will happen in the books since it isn't resolved.
Tyrion Lannister comes out on top in the books, though whether or not he's supposed to be good is anyone's guess.
I would tell you the stories, but they are spoilers. Even telling this much about the characters is spoilers in some cases.
The whole point of the books is that evil destroys itself. It may harm and maim good, but in the end it loses because it is unstable, and even the most evil people can be redeemed. Good, however, will always be there to fix things in the end.
The shows... well, I can't really say much for them. They've already deviated from the books enough that the writers could be planning to kill every single shred of hope and destroy Westeros forever, but it seems more likely that Danaerys will return with dragons and destroy the white walkers. It also seems like they plan on using her to unite the kingdoms, but that's just my speculation.
First off, I don't enjoy what I've been seeing in this series. It makes me mad that no one is able to do a good thing or TRY to do a good thing without being killed off or tossed to the lions later on. I haven't been able to attach myself to any of the "good" characters because they've all pretty much been killed.
But this is not the end of the series. Evil hasn't won, though it is romping around with impunity right now, messing with everyone. There is a sad sort of reflection of reality in this series that isn't what everyone wants to see, and what most people want to avoid. But that's now. I think even ths author knows what he's doing isn't winning him any friends in his readers, and can hear the grumbling of the masses. If his next book takns, he's in trouble... and so I expect there to be a turnaround at some point.
Most of the "good' things that have happened in these books has involved bad people getting their just reward for doing what they do, though thst's counterbalanced by the sheer number of OTHER bad people who seem to be immune to anything happening to them at all. It doesn't make things any better, though.
Personally, I don't... it's hard to put into words, I guess. I'm sitting here trying to think clearly enough to frame what I'm thinking in text, and I know some of the meaning will be lost, so it bothers me, but...
I still think you're seeing things the wrong way. Something like this? It should make you even MORE determined to spread happiness and to make people look towards the lighter side of life. Giving up does nothing but show that maybe being evil and sadistic and so on IS right, and do you REALLY believe that? Not these other people you talk to and look at, but you personally? And if you don't why would you change that just because of everyone... ANYONE else?
In my opinion, this author is trying to build things up to a near hopeless, "evil controls all" point, then is going to swing things around to a better angle. He HAS to do this, or he'll lose a huge part of his reader base. I don't recall exactly which episode it was, but there was one episode of Justice League wherein someone asked Lex Luthor why he tries so hard to gain power and control everything... what drives him to be who and what he is. His reply was, "Because I want to KNOW. I want to see what comes after... what happens at the end. I can't give up in the middle, or let others control me, or I might not get to see how it all turns out." ...or something along those lines. The point being, all these people who still read this book series? Are doing it to see how it all ends. They're not willing to say, "Yeah, this sucks, evil wins." and stop in the middle because where's the closure? I intend to at least look at the next book. If the author doesn't throw me something to make me think he doesn't plan to end it with, "And they all became ice zombies.", then I'll stop too, because I'll KNOW what the ending is. But as long as there's a chance that the good people will be saved, the bad people will be driven out or killed, and some sign of safety, surety and life will prevail, I'm willing to read a bit further.
...and stop cursing.
Dresden gets to shoot people while shooting off his mouth =^.^=
Side Jobs is considered book number 12.5 and is a series of short stories that take place all over the story line, with the final story taking place one hour after the end of Changes.
Ghost Story happens after side jobs
Cold Days is book 14
Skin Game will be book 15, whenever it gets released
I'm still following the show, but I tend to constantly be torn between being enthralled, and infuriated. I'm enthralled, because for a long time I wanted a show like this on television. I wanted to see a fantasy series, treated seriously, with grade a talent. And I'm infuriated, because, as you've pointed out, nearly each and every single person in this entire setting is a rotten %$#@$!.
I realize that the medieval world was a pretty brutal place, and that's what most fantasy is based on. As bleak as that period was though, I can't believe for a second it was HALF that bad.
Yes.
If there were OTHER well-made "swords and sorcery" fantasy shows on TV, I'd watch them instead. But the other ones are just so.... cliche. It's like the directors don't even understand what makes fantasy a viable genre.
The best thing about Game of Thrones, and possibly to a larger extent, The Walking Dead, is that they demonstrate that these so called, "esoteric," genres, can be just as dramatic as anything else, if not more so. Hopefully, as a result this spurs the industry to try tackling genres like this more often. Sadly, I cannot help but to think that they either won't, or will miss the point again.
1. I don't think Jon is dead. He was stabbed quite a bit, but the giant is right there. That giant he was defending probably went batshit crazy and fended off his attackers, or distracted them long enough for the wildlings to come. Even if he's on the verge of death, there are other things to consider. He's still a warg, so it's possible for his consciousness to escape. He could end up like Cold Hands, neither dead or alive. There is also Bran's growing power to factor in. We don't know how powerful Bran is at this point, or what he's capable of doing. There is also the wild card of Melisandre. Any number of things could happen.
Jon's arc was probably one of the more 'positive' ones in the book. He also served as a vehicle to show both sides of the Watch/Wildling conflict. Given his arc, it seems likely there is still more to be done with his character.
2. I don't think it's necessarily about good and evil, or punishing good. I do think it's about the corrupting nature of power and the horror of war. Westeros is devastated by the war, the land burned and ruined, countless towns completely destroyed. People that treat the war as some sort of romantic or adventurous thing get murdered. Horribly. The war dissolves to the point where the country is largely in chaos, uncontrollable by the people that proclaim to rule it, The message that there is no honor or glory in the war becomes painfully clear. Even those that go on the path to war with good intentions ( Daenerys being the most obvious example ) end up sowing the seeds of misery and discord. The one big exclusion to this in the whole series is Barristan Selmy, and clinging to his ideals cost him everything he had.
Many of the better characters have terrible things happen to them. Yoren, Jon, the Starks ( to name a few ), but this is what makes them good. Eddard Stark does what's right, despite knowing the great risk it puts on himself and his family, and ultimately sacrifices his honor only to try and spare his family ( and himself ) from a terrible fate. Yoren refuses to turn his back on any of his men and stands up to the King's men in the face of overwhelming odds. Conflicting morals tear Jon Snow apart. He tries desperately to save both The Watch and The Wildlings. His duty means so much to him that he turns a blind eye to the destruction of his entire family, until he finally reaches a breaking point. Doing the right thing is often the hardest path, but many characters try to walk in all the same. This is why we want them to succeed, and why it hurts when they fail.
3. The crap sack world is especially crap sack for the ladies, I love reading about Brienne, Arya, and Daenerys, but the incredibly shitty life most of the women have makes it really hard to defend the books sometimes. Someone will inevitably say 'But that's how life was back then!', but that's a stupid defense because this is fantasy land and not Earth. It could have been done a little differently.
4. The arcs of some of the 'bad' characters have been some of the most interesting. Jamie has become something of a protagonist, or at least an antihero. He's disgusted with Cersi, and even himself. He starts trying to set The Kingsguard right. His coming trial in the next book will probably bring him full circle. Tyrion is still misanthropic and angry at the world, but he still tries to do good. He becomes so hated in Kings Landing because of what he does trying to save it ( and himself ). Varys is objectively trying to orchestrate what would be 'best' for Westeros, but he's causing an incredible amount of suffering in the process.
The short of what I'm trying to say is that it would be impossible for us to care nearly as much as we do without all of the terrible things that happen, and the bleakness of the world makes the virtuous moments of characters shine all the more brightly.
Tyrion did save Kings Landing from Stannis. It's pretty clear that without his largely unappreciated actions, the city would have fallen. He also protects Sansa, to a degree, and does a whole lot of good for such a bitter and resentful person.
Jon has done a great deal of good. He saved The Wall from falling against one of the greatest onslaughts it's ever seen, and then led a gigantic effort to save as many Wildlings as he could. If he hadn't done this, The Others would have a great deal more 'zombies' in their army, and many of the forts along the wall would remain unmanned.
Even if Jon dies *right now*, he may have set the stage to save Westeros from it's greatest threat. That's a huge success, even if it involved astounding sacrifices.
Danny led her people across a desert, raised her dragons, and built an army on an incredibly successful military campaign. She crippled a great deal of the slave trade in the process, and though she's failing in peace, she's had a great deal of success in war. It'll be interesting to see what happens when and if she makes it to Westeros.
The series is filled with successes large and small, but you have to look for many of them, and they largely go unnoticed or unappreciated by the people that inhabit the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0IsU8Z_eLs
Have some parody.
I laughed at that way more than I should have.
In my view, "grittiness" in series/movies can be done to serve a purpose, or just put in to be edgy. I think the best example is found in Sci-Fi: Battlestar Galactica (the 2000s version) was gritty with purpose; Stargate Universe was gritty just to be edgy. Personally I think GoT falls into the first category and I've been enjoying the hell out of it. If you disagree, feel free to watch something softer like Disney's Sword in the Stone, and enjoy your doom of crunchings and munchings.
A live-action "Discworld" series, done with the same sort of studio.
I want to see a Discworld series... with the same level of QUALITY that GoT has. Good, experienced actors, relatively high production values, etc...
Yes, I agree. There is no comparison. Discworld is indeed a very "absurd" series.
Gurgi was from The Black Cauldron.
The Black Cauldron is an amazing movie. <3
I find the way things happen in this book and how they play out is actually (and bear with me) rather true to life in a sense, without the magic of course. This is taking place in a medieval-type era, or early renaissance, and life WAS shit for anyone not rich or noble then, and even then, shit happened. the world was and in many ways IS stacked against good and doing the right thing, but if anything that makes the good things that characters do stand out and mean more. I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM is a feminist because, yeah, horrible things happen to women in the books, beyond horrible - BUT THAT'S HOW IT WAS throughout history, and he doesn't balk at showing that, or showing anything.
The characters are very human for better and for worse, I find. I am not a fan of things that are dark and gritty, but I find this series is so much more than just that. It also, in a way, shows how horribly flawed certain human logics are, especially evident when yousee more of what's going on in Slaver's Bay and Mereen. It gets depressing at times, but you'd actually be surprised which characters are still alive in the fifth book, and which villains are dead.
Also, the fact that "Winter is Coming" IS important, as well as the fact Dany brought dragons back, because, hey, the series is "A Song of ICE and FIRE." Everyone has been so busy fighting wars that only the Night's Watch knows the real enemy. I get frustrated with how depressing the book gets, especially with what Brienne goes through. That said, the horrible things that happen to people, especially women, isn't so much (I think) GRRM wanting those things to happen so much as he's showing how the maltreatment of women and men was and in some ways is so skewed that way. Though don't get me wrong, the gay characters don't get really any breaks either :x And yes, those do come up.
Basically, I can understand your frustration, but there is so much more to A Song of Ice and Fire than the horrors and the dark grittiness, at least in the books. I have yet to see the show to see how it differs.
Nobody's good actions have had any lasting value. Ned's honorable sacrifice just created a gigantic war. Jon's attempts to unite the people resulted in him being stabbed, and everything going back to the way it was. Gregor Clegane gets killed, and justice is served... oh wait, it totally isn't. Now they have a giant zombie-knight to murder people with. Brienne was hired as a kingsguard by a good king. Well, we can't have THAT, can we? Oops, king is dead, Brienne gets the blame, fuck women, shouldn't have gotten our hopes up.
I am honestly trying to think of more positive things that happened, but I truly, without exaggerating, cannot think of them. In fact, if I could cover it, I'd bet a thousand bucks that Arya, Sansa, Jon Snow, and Tirion will be dead before the series is over. See, that's the thing. All good actions are rendered meaningless... because they have NO LASTING VALUE. So yeah, I disagree. There is NOT any more to this series than horror and misery and grit. If there was any more GRIT to this series....
... I can't think of a "grit" related metaphor, sorry.
Anyhow, I can see what the author was, "trying," to do, and it almost works, save for the fact that there really IS no good of lasting value accomplished. I can handle gritty, I can handle brutal, and I can handle the forces of good occasionally losing. However, there still HAS to be some good worth rooting for, or whats the point in putting yourself through all the grit? If he wanted to make a point that, it really was difficult for good to flourish in the medieval era, that is fine. If he wants to kill off major protagonists to keep the audience from becoming complaisant, that is also fine. However, if you're intending to kill off a major protagonist, there really SHOULD be somebody to pass that torch off to.
They never really manage that in GoT. When Ned Stark dies, does anybody really step up and take his place? Is there anybody that tries to step up and do the right thing? Not really, and the same can be said of almost any protagonist in the series. With such a large cast, and a big world, there should be plenty of opportunities to toss the good guy title from one person to another. Instead, the audience is asked to make do with increasingly compromised characters, whom aren't all that much better than the antagonists.
Again, I realize what the author was trying to do, and if he had pulled it off it would've been amazing. As is, I feel as if he didn't get the balance right. He just tried a little too hard to be brutal and gritty, and after a certain point that actually gets in the way of telling a good story.
I forgot Jon was stabbed. D: But he isn't gotten rid of so easily!
Otherwise it would have been another normal fantasy book, the good guy had solved the puzzle and brought justice to the Lannisters... or at least had ended up on the wall... but this was something I never expected and I like that in a book.
If I feel a character can die at any time, you get more attached to them, because you hope he makes it... in any other book, you know he'll be there till the end... Just my personal oppinion though, but yeah, I'm a pretty big fan of the book-series and even the tv-show.
The problem is, if that happens too often, you get desensitized. At this point, it's almost impossible to get attached to any character, because you know they're going to be killed horribly in very short order.
It's like a doctor who only works with terminal patients. Eventually he'll just stop caring entirely.
And I don't think Jon Snow is dead yet, simply because he is "The song of ice and fire"... after all most of us knew who his mother and his father are, I suppose. ;)
And there is something else I enjoy greatly about the whole series... all the background information and legends that are constantly talked about... stuff that happened in the past... of old heroes, the stuff at Harrenhall, the many legends about the Nightwatch, the history of extinct houses. I do love this kind of stuff, simply because it makes a world more alive... In many stories only the present is important and maybe a bit of the past that has something to do with the current things that happen. Here you have a whole bunch of legends, of which some are important, while others aren't.
I know, that's not something everyone enjoys or cares about, but I have to admit that I'm a sucker for these kind of things... ^^
But I can agree, the series is not for everyone: My mom hates the tv-show, my dad loves it, my ex-girlfriend doesn't know if she loves or hates the books, but she is still reading and has almost finished the fifth book, because she wants to know how it ends... ;)
But yeah, I guess it's probably the way you are going at a book (same counts for films too). I do get emotional and I am sad if some fictional character that I like dies (not just in ASOIF) but then again I just put the book away and remember that it is just a piece of fiction and I'm positive enough to go on with my life without constantly mourning the loss. ;)
Howard's books kind of rely too much on overpowered Mary Sue characters... but at least there's meaningful conflict. There are big bad scary people who prey on the weak... but there's also big bad scary people who HELP the weak. See, there's some balance.
That's... Not even really anything anymore that's just "hey let's massacre everybody because we fucking can. Who needs a hero, right?"
And that's just terrible.
;n;
Perhaps your assessment is not entirely accurate and filled with emotional responses, but so far I have no real reason to believe otherwise as from what I've seen of the show does not interest me. I'm usually one for dark themes, but I suppose I'm the kind of person that enjoys 'the good guys' (or 'the bad guys') that are trying to do good but are forced to use measures that are not exactly moral, or trying to repent from past transgressions. Breaking Bad series is a good example as, in spite of everything that happens to the main character, he still does his best to provide and support his family, even if the moral implications and repercussions are evident.
Game of Thrones, however, does seem like there is no silver lining in the clouds. Perhaps the last few seasons might hold some twist, but I'll just wait until the show is fully complete and then decide whether or not to watch it down the line. I suppose in my case 'too much' of something applies. I don't watch the new MLP like most do because... well, it is too much for me but at least MLP tries to put forth a positive outlook rather than a bleak one, so points for that.
Personally I don't much like it. Gets a bit excessive at times... But it's one of the few optimistic shows around.