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The "Friend-zone"
12 years ago
I am so tired hearing about the friend zone, I'm rather tired listening to "nice" guys whine about how they keep getting friend-zoned. It is just sad really.
First off, guys, women do intentionally "friend-zone" people (guys, girls, hyper-intelligent shades of blue, whatever they're into) this is not to be a cruel but rather, and this might shock you, not everyone wants to be in a relationship with someone they don't know. They want to be friends first and if you guys really are compatible maybe more. If not, heck you still got a good friend.
The other issue is guys, girls, hyper-intelligent shades of blue, you need to actually be clear about what it is you want. If you ask to hang out with someone, they will think you want to hang out. If you want to actually go out with someone ASK THEM OUT. suck it up and actually ask them out.
I have met guys that have a terrible habit where they want to hang out, and ask to hang out but really want to go on a date. The problem is they ask in such a way that they aren't told no, because it's hanging out. Yes, you might get rejected and that blows, but you got to handle that.
Unless you expect to date Jean Grey you need to be clear what your intentions are, and if you do have a crush on Jean Grey, you have bigger problems like laser eyes and getting attacked by the brotherhood of evil.
Point is, he clear up front. if you want to date then say so.
Sometimes you will get rejected, sometimes they won't be interested and will just want you as a friend. Get over it. If you want to be friends be friends. If you don't move on. Don't be friendly then secretly pissy because he/she/it/them aren't interested in a relationship with you.
Anyway the final part is the harshest and the hardest to balance. Sometimes it's you.
Those that matter in your life should accept who you are, and relationships should be supportive, but don't expect someone to want to take care of you.
Most people aren't looking for a dependent. You can get a cat for that. If you are looking for a relationship and keep getting turned down then it's time to look inward. Often you just haven't found the right type yet, that's fine, but if you're jobless, no prospects, living on a couch, or otherwise expect the person to make up for that and work hard for you...that won't happen.
People don't go into something expecting to hold someone else up.
There is the saying that you will find love when you stop looking. that's because people that do that have to learn to be okay with themselves and need to hold themselves up. They learn to be comfortable and independent, and when you do that then you will find someone that you can help up as they help you up.
If you want a relationship you need to be able to bring something to the table and being "friendly" isn't enough for that sort of commitment.
Now, all that being said. there are bitches out there that tease people and string them along. They get people to do things for them while promising that maybe if they complete this quest they'll go out. These are bitches, they are not worth your time.
If there's someone doing this to you, no matter how hot or interesting, get the fuck out. Not worth it.
First off, guys, women do intentionally "friend-zone" people (guys, girls, hyper-intelligent shades of blue, whatever they're into) this is not to be a cruel but rather, and this might shock you, not everyone wants to be in a relationship with someone they don't know. They want to be friends first and if you guys really are compatible maybe more. If not, heck you still got a good friend.
The other issue is guys, girls, hyper-intelligent shades of blue, you need to actually be clear about what it is you want. If you ask to hang out with someone, they will think you want to hang out. If you want to actually go out with someone ASK THEM OUT. suck it up and actually ask them out.
I have met guys that have a terrible habit where they want to hang out, and ask to hang out but really want to go on a date. The problem is they ask in such a way that they aren't told no, because it's hanging out. Yes, you might get rejected and that blows, but you got to handle that.
Unless you expect to date Jean Grey you need to be clear what your intentions are, and if you do have a crush on Jean Grey, you have bigger problems like laser eyes and getting attacked by the brotherhood of evil.
Point is, he clear up front. if you want to date then say so.
Sometimes you will get rejected, sometimes they won't be interested and will just want you as a friend. Get over it. If you want to be friends be friends. If you don't move on. Don't be friendly then secretly pissy because he/she/it/them aren't interested in a relationship with you.
Anyway the final part is the harshest and the hardest to balance. Sometimes it's you.
Those that matter in your life should accept who you are, and relationships should be supportive, but don't expect someone to want to take care of you.
Most people aren't looking for a dependent. You can get a cat for that. If you are looking for a relationship and keep getting turned down then it's time to look inward. Often you just haven't found the right type yet, that's fine, but if you're jobless, no prospects, living on a couch, or otherwise expect the person to make up for that and work hard for you...that won't happen.
People don't go into something expecting to hold someone else up.
There is the saying that you will find love when you stop looking. that's because people that do that have to learn to be okay with themselves and need to hold themselves up. They learn to be comfortable and independent, and when you do that then you will find someone that you can help up as they help you up.
If you want a relationship you need to be able to bring something to the table and being "friendly" isn't enough for that sort of commitment.
Now, all that being said. there are bitches out there that tease people and string them along. They get people to do things for them while promising that maybe if they complete this quest they'll go out. These are bitches, they are not worth your time.
If there's someone doing this to you, no matter how hot or interesting, get the fuck out. Not worth it.
No pressure! Otherthen getting caught up in Drama and unexpeccted life situations.
I have to say as a straight male, surprisingly I like the friend-zone. I like having female friends in which I can chill and hang out with, flirt in good fun, but at the end of the day have a good friend and nothing more. Though intermingling between both straight and gay friends, I can agree with you on that many straight guys constantly complain about the friend zone and it bothers me in the extent of, why do you feel the need that every girl has to put out or that you have to date every female?
Hell I've bought dinner for a few friends at times, some being female. It's been far from a date, simply I've just wanted to go out treat someone to food and conversation. Then again I guess I'm "strange" in how I act.
Girls do this too of course, and the same advice applies. if you like someone then tell them. If you want to be friends be friends. Don't be friendly and expect them to know you want more.
Doing a radio show for three years now, you have no idea how many times I've heard people state that they like someone yet never tell them. From friends to relationships communication is such a key aspect that people seem to over step. I'm all for the concept that if you like someone, tell them, let them know. Sure it could be awkward, or you might get shot down but at least they'll know. But I agree, sometimes people expect more yet never say anything, but then feel upset or angered by something that could have been corrected if you just spoke your mind. x3
Be nice for the sake of being nice. If you expect something in return you are missing the point. I've met my fair share of people on both sides of the gender pool who just don't get this.
Sanita
Unfortunately in the dating world, there are many people who try to "Buy" the affections of others. They treat the potential partner like an object that can be "Bought" with enough gifts and money. This is very problematic because it opens the person up to be a target of abusers, and also in the end makes them bitter. At the end of they day they can't figure out why "no one wants me" and are unable to look and realize as fay had said "The problem is me."
Or making friends for that matter. I don't really have any friends, just people I get on with but even then I don't quite get the whole friends thing.
The overused foreveralone.jpg is once again appropriate
Though for some reason I have plenty of buttbuddies online.
I'm not interested in dating anyway. Well, that's a lie, but I'm honestly more interested in being friends with people right now, chicks and dudes alike. I don't even know much about ~dating~ anyway. Just being friends with people and the possibility of getting into each other later on makes more logical sense to me. Not asking people out and them being "hmmok ye lets d8 n shit" on the spot, at least that's what it sounds like to me. o.e
(as a friend muhahahahahahahaha)
But yea, that's how I feel. I keep thinking relationships are when you know someone for a while and then get into them and start having feelings for them. I'm totally not used to just asking random people out. You barely know the person and you're like "Hey let's go out", how do you know the person isn't a serial killer?
<.<
>.>
I posted it on Weasyl if people want to Fav.
It's my professional opinion that guys don't really want to be friends. They stick around in hopes of eventually dating the girl. So they have been "friend zoned". Any guy who says different is gay or lying.
In a joking sense, to go a bit PG-13. I'm such good friends with some people that when they post erotic art of their fursonas, in my mind I can only see it as, "Oh that's cute" simply because I can't be aroused by their fursonas because I see themselves through their fursonas and then it just becomes awkward. Hahaha.
Shall we continue this train wreck?
forever...alone...
Like backwoods Mississippi level creepy.
As for the relationship thing, I kinda -have to- friend zone people because I have enough relationship on my plate as is (you already know my situation). I'm cool with being friends to just about anyone. Just don't be too creepy or pushy. Also don't claim me as your one and only soul mate. That will make me both a sad and very nervous squirrel.
The worst are the ones that act like they have to be with you. OMG! I've only talked to you three times and you are already sending me a one way ticket to Mississippi to meet you IRL? No thanks! In fact, double no thanks! And yes, someone did try to get me to fly to meet them IRL. I politely declined.
Sanita
Then there was lots of secret type stuffs going on behind the scenes, between women, men, so on...the more "refined" the process the more likely there was stuff going on.
I mean look at victorians. they had secret code flirting, really complicated shit. I could not handle that kind of shit, seriously. This flower means this, and that flower means that, and omg beck did you just tilt your fan at a 45 degree angle you slut!
The early-to-mid 20th century seemed to have a decent balance of procedure and simplicity when it came to things romantic. Or at least, that's what I've gleaned from my readings from and about the era. "Good Old Days" Symptom may be to blame for this.
(WARNING: DEVIL'S ADVOCATE SECTION TO FOLLOW)
As to Victorian fan etiquette, I doubt it could be much more complicated than keeping track of the various memes and references people use today... it's amazing the things that people would memorize back when they didn't have a constant flow of information, accessible whenever they wanted it. But yeah, I'm totally not down with the giant dresses and freaky hairdos and whatnot from that era.
for the victorian code, nah it's not that bad. I'm sure they memorized as needed, but it was quite complicated. there's loads of books just on parts of it.
Why you gotta friendzone me? *sobs* :V
My idea on what "friend zone" means is that it's when a guy who's friends with a girl asks her out, and he happens to be a geeky and possibly unattractive person, and she says no, and he gets this all the time, and feels like it's because he's ugly and nerdy and the girls are just being shallow and only like guys who are badasses. If the guy has true feelings for the the girl, it could be painful for him to be rejected. It's true that girls have every right to say "no", that they don't want a relationship, even if that reason is completely shallow (in which case why date her in the first place, if she's that narrow minded?). And it probably happens in other ways, with guys rejecting girls, guys rejecting guys, girls rejecting girls, ect.
Of course, it may be that the guy being rejected may just think he's a nice guy, but he has his own personality problems the girl picks up on and he's not really a nice guy after all. Or, maybe he is a nice guy, but has some social problems that makes him seem creepy (and I see this so much in the furry and geek fandoms).
Admittedly, I may think of the term as such because I consider myself a geeky, unattractive person. But I've rarely gotten "friendzoned" and I've stayed friends with people even when they rejected my advances.
But recently I've been noticing some feminists (and I use the term here to designate people who are active or vocal in women's rights) saying that "Friend zone" is a term when a guy acts friendly towards a girl only because he wants sex, and then gets angry when she says no. The only people who use the term "friendzone" are sexist asshole "nice guys" who just are nice to women because they want to get in their pants.
It's entirely possible I just misunderstood what the term meant. It's also possible that the term has changed in meaning. This "friend zone" debate seems to be a more recent thing.
I am a bit bugged by the use of the term "nice guy" to describe guys who just want to use women for sex. I feel a bit offended by this as I consider myself a mostly nice guy and I don't friend women just to get into their pants. I read something that may clarify this a bit, it said that by "nice guy" they mean guys who only are nice to a woman to get in bed with her. I see this all the time. I tend to call them "smooth talkers" because they'll act charming and sweet and like a playboy around a woman they're interested in, and sometimes it's pretty obvious (to me at least) that they're just activating the charm to get pussy.
But saying that all guys are nice to women only to get sex seems a bit mean to us who are friends with women we don't want to have sex with.
So maybe the term "friendzone" is just being thrown around a lot now by guys who are jerks and were jerks to begin with. Maybe the meaning changed a bit, maybe I just didn't get it.
If one genuinely wants to be a friend to another person that is awesome and they should rock that. There is nothing wrong with it. If someone is interested in a relationship, is told no, and is happy to be a friend anyway still cool. It's more than just sex. It's more than just a prize. Like I said a lot of women (and men I can assume) will be friends with someone first, there is no shame in it, but those that talk about the "friend zone" treat it as such.
The term "nice guy" refers to a particular kind of guy, because they constantly refer to themselves as a "nice guy". They aren't. It's the type of guy that is perhaps a bit nerdy or not the greek god that is the captain america physique, and he thinks "wow that guy must be such an asshole, why to girls like him? Why do girls like assholes. I'm nice. why won't she just go out with me the bitch"
This is not to say everyone that is not captain america or whatever is an asshole, that's silly. But these guys are judgmental fucks and will say and mean the nastiest things about women, men, etc because they aren't the person's type or more likely than not, they have absolutely zero confidence. They won't ask someone out, they won't show any initiative. They act like women are slot machines, put in enough friend coins and get the jackpot. When women don't simply become wildly attracted to them because they were won over by the awkwardness, they treat them like stupid sluts and whores.
It is extremely two faced and it's not "nice". Despite their insistence on being "nice" these guys are only "nice" because they don't have the balls to say things to someone's face.
Actual Nice guys are nice, and that's why I used quotation marks. This is a term to refer to a certain type of guy, not everyone that really is nice.
As for rejecting someone for not being attracted. That isn't shallow. If someone isn't into nerdy unattractive guys it doesn't make them shallow anymore than a gay man not dating women is shallow. If she refused to even acknowledge you or be friendly it's shallow, but being attracted to someone is a big part of relationships and to be honest it's cruel and will cause trouble to just throw someone a bone when you feel nothing there.
Everyone has their types they like, everyone has preferences. This doesn't mean "tough luck ugly, hope you wish you were in the gym 24/7" it's to say that one person wasn't feeling it, but someone else will. Everyone has a type and everyone is attracted to somebody.
That's one of those things I was talking about with the "nice guy" thing. If she isn't attracted to you that doesn't mean she's shallow. That's a rather judgmental thing to say. It means she's not attracted to you. That's it.
Again if she treats you like shit over it then that's an issue, but it's idiotic to think "she's interested in a certain type of person, clearly she is shallow and undeserving of attention."
Watch that kind of attitude or you may end up a "nice guy"
I don't mind the whole 'friend zone' thing. Means more friends. I haven't knowingly rant into the 'nice guy' thing yet. Then again, since I have a happy and rather stable relationship with two people I haven't really been looking for it. I have noticed that some guys will chat me up a lot at first and then after a while it'll suddenly drop off for no reason. Or they say 'Hey, want to snuggle/cuddle/do some kind of freaky circus themed sex position?' and I have to turn them down.
Sanita
another thought is if one decides to embark upon a couple style relationship, then for sanities sake if one decides to break up, have it be for good reasons. as other people see what a person does and only desperate people will enter into a relationship with a person who has dumped another for no good reasons. of course the fandom is chock full of desperate people living in their mothers basements so one may very well be able to leave a string of people behind them and keep on finding new people.
But seriously, you bring up a good point--sometimes, there is no conspiracy to not go out with someone. And when said someone realizes that they may be the problem , maybe, just maybe, they can do something to alleviate that.
That made me giggle a bit because when I read that i had an image of Alex Jones dressed as Cupid angrily flitting about and shooting people with arrows.
What can i say? It's a slow day at work.
Sanita