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GUN is GOOD!! PENIS is EVIL!! (clean vs porn issue)
17 years ago
General
(LOL! I couldn't resist the title for this. It's a reference to Zardoz... a really bad... bad Sean Connery movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrkV_omNzSk&feature=related But hey, it gets points for a floating idol that barfs out firearms
So there was a hurricane, and it sucked. Quite the shitstorm...
It figures that a shitstorm of drama would follow...
Yes, I am going to talk about the whole "CLEAN vs. PORN" issue!! WHEEE!!
But here's the thing....
There is foolishness on BOTH Sides...
You people may have read a few journals recently, where certain artists have mentioned how they feel inundated by porn recently. A lot of people seem to think that those people are CONDEMNING porn...
...but here's a news flash, folks... THEY'RE NOT~!
Most of the people (that I'm aware of, at least) that are making these journals are merely encouraging others to try something new, expand their horizons, exercise their talents beyond simple porno pinups.
Imagine it like a hamburger... JUST THE MEAT AND BUN... nothing else... They're not saying, "NEVER eat hamburgers!" They're saying you should maybe do something more... try cheese, bacon.... maybe some lettuce and tomato... maybe try chicken instead of beef. Then later, maybe make a stew or a pasta with some veggies on the side, and finish off with a dessert.
This is the kind of shit we artists should be doing, trying to make new and exciting things! You don't HAVE to... but it can't hurt to try~ Hell... at the VERY least MAKE A WEBCOMIC! Sure, it won't be that popular at first, but as you go on, people will follow, and you'll evolve and progress as an artist!
But ahahaha... chances are people are gonna be stupid about the message, and twist it to something bad...
EXTREME NON-PORN PEOPLE will stand on one side pointing to porn as the problem. They will always see porn as porn, and never consider the fact that just because it's porn, that doesn't mean that it's not art. Porn is NOT the problem... it's the overwhelming obsession of porn via artists and watchers alike added to both parties' lack of interest in cleaner works that is the issue.
EXTREME PORN PEOPLE will stand on the other side, blindly assuming that this is some outrage against porn. They fear that all the mean artists are trying to take their porno away, and think that one day they'll wake up with less wanking material than they had before. Then they'll get all up-in-arms, arguing against ANY negative comment towards porn. They may even argue that there ISN'T an overwhelming obsession with porn, because to some of them, there can NEVER be such a thing as "too much porn." Really though, they have nothing to worry about, because we're all gonna fucking draw porn ANYWAY.
Really, the overall emphasis here is ENCOURAGEMENT to do something better, NOT discouragement to stop people from doing stuff they already like.
Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta get back to work on my porn comic... :3
So there was a hurricane, and it sucked. Quite the shitstorm...
It figures that a shitstorm of drama would follow...
Yes, I am going to talk about the whole "CLEAN vs. PORN" issue!! WHEEE!!
But here's the thing....
There is foolishness on BOTH Sides...
You people may have read a few journals recently, where certain artists have mentioned how they feel inundated by porn recently. A lot of people seem to think that those people are CONDEMNING porn...
...but here's a news flash, folks... THEY'RE NOT~!
Most of the people (that I'm aware of, at least) that are making these journals are merely encouraging others to try something new, expand their horizons, exercise their talents beyond simple porno pinups.
Imagine it like a hamburger... JUST THE MEAT AND BUN... nothing else... They're not saying, "NEVER eat hamburgers!" They're saying you should maybe do something more... try cheese, bacon.... maybe some lettuce and tomato... maybe try chicken instead of beef. Then later, maybe make a stew or a pasta with some veggies on the side, and finish off with a dessert.
This is the kind of shit we artists should be doing, trying to make new and exciting things! You don't HAVE to... but it can't hurt to try~ Hell... at the VERY least MAKE A WEBCOMIC! Sure, it won't be that popular at first, but as you go on, people will follow, and you'll evolve and progress as an artist!
But ahahaha... chances are people are gonna be stupid about the message, and twist it to something bad...
EXTREME NON-PORN PEOPLE will stand on one side pointing to porn as the problem. They will always see porn as porn, and never consider the fact that just because it's porn, that doesn't mean that it's not art. Porn is NOT the problem... it's the overwhelming obsession of porn via artists and watchers alike added to both parties' lack of interest in cleaner works that is the issue.
EXTREME PORN PEOPLE will stand on the other side, blindly assuming that this is some outrage against porn. They fear that all the mean artists are trying to take their porno away, and think that one day they'll wake up with less wanking material than they had before. Then they'll get all up-in-arms, arguing against ANY negative comment towards porn. They may even argue that there ISN'T an overwhelming obsession with porn, because to some of them, there can NEVER be such a thing as "too much porn." Really though, they have nothing to worry about, because we're all gonna fucking draw porn ANYWAY.
Really, the overall emphasis here is ENCOURAGEMENT to do something better, NOT discouragement to stop people from doing stuff they already like.
Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta get back to work on my porn comic... :3
It's one thing if drawing porn is your JOB, you can't help that. But most people do it for the hell of it, and it's nice to break from porn and look at something nice and clean and well made. :3
I mean I've seen some absolutely GORGEOUS erotic art, but I like balance. :3
This about Strype's journal?
Agreed, by the way.
That diaper looked really uncomfortable.
CLEAN ARTWORK IS AWFUL
I WANT TO SEE SOME GREY-AREA ARTWORK AND NOTHING BUT
and as I said in other journals.... anything drawn well is probably porn to someone....
What I'm saying is. Stop looking at my plate and eat your own damn hamburger the way you want.
If you masturbate all day, I'm sure that's bad too.
I masturbate WITH hamburgers.. all warm and juicy :3~~
Though you might be able to get away with veggie burgers..............
Also I never said you were forcing it, why did you feel the need to point that out?
I made this point once and got flamed really bad, like you said it's not like we're saying porn is bad it's just any time you have an over abundance of something it will always seem less attractive!
and some times what FA is like is eating TONS AND TONS of hamburgers, and every time you suggest something else people get mad!
you really need to start bathing again
Why bathe when you can simply shed your skin?
*Wedges himself between two jagged rocks*
Like a ssssssnaaaaake~ Yeeeessssssss--BLEEDING!!!!!
IF HE STILL WORKED!!! :O
Well said.
But oh well. Your wordings and what not are what I have come to expect from you as logical and showing good common sense. lets hope it spreads like a virus XD
Anyways, what gets on my nerves is this stereotype that porn artists are capable of drawing ONLY porn and nothing else - which is completely untrue. I know a lot of porn heavy artists (myself included) who do commercial or some other form or professional art work - that's not porn in the slightest - outside of the fandom. At the end of the day, to relax, blow off steam or whatever do these artists usually draw things highly erotic in nature. Now I can't speak for everyone of course, but it gets a little tiresome to hear people go on some self-righteous rant on porn artist who should 'try something different' when they don't know a damn thing about those artists aside from whatever they view on their FA gallery.
Really... these journals aren't meant for them...
Rather, I am trying to encourage those people who ONLY do porn. Not naming any names, but I know a few, and others... well.. they know themselves. Hopefully they'll broaden their horizons.
And no, they're NOT only able to do that. Gunmouth AND his girl Kami both draw porn plus other things, so they know this. The point is people pigeonhole themselves into drawing it almost exclusively. Sometimes it's because that's all they're interested in, which is fine. Some people are in a creative rut, and since porn is relatively easy to get instant gratification from, they draw that. Some people believe that no one will care at all about their non-porn art, and no one will buy non-porn, so they keep drawing porn so they don't suddenly fall into obscurity.
Whatever the case, all gunmouth is suggesting is that people try some variety, whether it's in their content rating or otherwise. No one's saying Porn needs to disappear, and he is NOT insulting people who draw porn... being he draws it HIMSELF.
There's a of art out there isn't the most creative or inventive. Doesn't matter what subject is involved in it - clean, erotic, or ultra-violent. Porn (and violence) may have the advantage of a bigger shock value, it's still dependent on how said artist's own way of ideas.
And this idea that porn will guarantee more attention is a bit of half truth. Last I checked, Lizardbeth, you are a rather popular artist who doesn't draw porn whatsoever. Maybe you're not the most popular, but you're surely up there with the rest of them, and you're not just the exception either.
There are a lot of artists that are good at porn, but get little attention along with the people who draw clean art - some of which I known have left FA. While porn does make some people's heads turn a little more, it's only one element out of many for an artist to garner attention to themselves. All the porn in the word isn't going to matter if you can only draw stick figures or have a very un-mainstream style to your art. If you can garner an audience without drawing a single wang, then the audience isn't as hormone-enraged as you would think.
Also, I never said that you two don't want porn to disappear. It's more the art scenester ugliness that tends to follow that I usually grown weary about. Remembering a couple of 'art change' movements in the fandom in the past, many of these tend to start off purposeful enough, but down the line, as self-importance and elitism take precedence, they tend to adapt a mob mentality. Unnecessarily denigrating or ridiculing - and in some cases chasing off - people who not only draw porn, but anyone who doesn't fit in or agree with their ideas on what is real art. (SCFA's transition to Yerf was one prime example)
So I don't look at these kind of movements with much trust and faith. Who is anyone to demand what anyone else should be drawing? While I always found that it's good to lead by example to perhaps motivate others, the idea of putting pressure to draw something different reeks almost of the same conformity this whole 'change movement' is arguing against.
It's hard to try to aim so high for a fandom that's far more hobby oriented than commercial-wise anyway.
Porn Lovers: Can't stop touching themselves.
Non Porn Lovers: Wanna stop touching themselves.
The middle man: Sells porn to both parties.
I don't personally mind porn, but I get bored of the same thing over and over, I mean you already know how most ideas with porn end up (some words, then stripping, then blow job, then anal, reverse, spooge, end.) Repetition is getting old, even some artists are drawing the same poses and everything has to have an erection. Drawing porn is fun for some, but please...try something different, suggestive is more erotic than explicit to me, I mean everyone is using their imagination to begin with being a tease is enjoyable. Yeah, its porn, there's a cock, it's leaking, and erect...let me stare at it for 5 minutes and move along.
Here is one paragraph that I saved from an essay I had on the subject. I am not kidding. I have it all saved in a text file... all of which where responses to Faint, Strype, Ramzkun, and others. Feel free to skip it.
As far as views/ comments/ STREET CRED goes, correct me if I'm wrong here (since all of my experiences of this community took place within this site and Lulz alone) ... but a large part of this community aren't even contributors at all. Style, composition, and technical achievements are never acknowledged by them... porn or otherwise. They just come here to get a fix. They don't see the artist or the work behind it. It is these people who are skewing the numbers in favor for the porn when it comes to users and submissions.... especially when imageboarders (who mostly deal with porn) are the ones who put the names out there. Browse the "Browse" pages at any given moment and see if you can find more than say... 10-20% porn. If you feel there is stagnation within the community because of porn... that can't be the reason because porn itself does not represent the majority of the works being done here. If your issue is that non-pron artists/ submissions aren't getting the play they deserve... fair enough. That is a cause for concern... because it is very true. But it's no fault of the artist... therefore it is one that cannot be helped regardless of what effort you put into your future works.
[I wish there where hide/ spoiler/ strike tags]
Yeah... this isn't a discussion I want to take part in because it will never end. Every view for or against can be made valid and rebutted... and nothing that is said will bring the discussion any closer to a conclusion than saying nothing at all. At best it will bring awareness to people and works that where previously unknown to some. At worst people will furiously mash at their keyboards until they get bored of the circular logic or pass out. It's a subject as complex as it is simple. Opinionssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
I didn't say that others who started this topic was wrong, but I guess he/she didn't realize how people could take it to the extreme.
Now you may go and look at my favs and see nothing but porn in there BUT NEVER FEAR!! The Heretic is NOT an extreme smut person thingee whatyadidcallit. He is just...very into porn. :D
I love tits as much as most, but it would be nice if it wasn't the only time people paid attention.
I usually get a better reaction posting them on 4chan.
But seriously, my thoughts exactly. It's kinda frustrating how people seem to have a need to split up into different sides and start fights where there aren't any already.
please? just alittle argue ;_;?......
but ya.. jouranl=truth etc etc..
I like reading these and then someone else's journal that continues baseless complaints about porn/nonporn.
Come on, we all know why we're really here. For our weird ass fetishes.
Don't have a thing for either side...
IF it's good drawn, hits my nerv, I'll like it, wether it's porn or clean...
Who gives a fuck if there are two or more characters on a pic loving each other or if there is a kitty looking in the mirror... if it's a nice picture, than it's OK...
For me there has to be a certain "quality" on a picture and it shouldn't be to sick, the rest doesn't matter :)
Therefor: What ever we all may draw, look at: Enjoy it, or leave it ... everyone has his own taste...
What's "retarded" is that people are assuming that this is a war on pornography.
We're merely trying to suggest that some people try something else a few times. That's all.
On the other hand, if their drawing porn just for the money, then 'welcome to the working class world' to those folks. Not everyone get's paid to do what they love. Least their getting paid to draw, even if it is a topic that doesn't satasify their own personal feelings at that moment.
Art used to be about expression of one's emotions, or to keep records of events. Now we use it for entertainment mostly. Either do it for yourself, or bend over backwards to do it for others for recognition or money. If one isn't doing artwork for one of those 3 reasons (for self, for money, or for recognition) then I really dont know what their doing it for if they can o.O
~N~
Well said GuNMouTH. Here is hoping some people accept your challenge.
if anything, I've found that a lot of people on FA really appreciate good art. Heck, I've seen clean art get more comments on here than when those same pictures get posted on DA.
~N~
If people take their porn SO seriously that they feel threatened when anyone else tries them to do anything different, and get SO whiny/bitchy, then they DO NOT deserve their precious porn.
In fact, I guarantee that if artist like you, :userduo:, :useronota:, :usertwinkle-sez:, or other popular artist vowed to never draw porn again, furries all over would riot. It's THAT bad.
I personally don't condem porn, I think it's great. But I don't let it rule my life and my part in the fandom. T__T; I draw clean art too.
In fact, the majority of my favorites are clean XD
And my gallery is completely clean.
I mean what's the point of spending all your time on this hot comic, testing yourself and trying new things, if in the end, no one cares and it falls through the cracks in to the abyss?
Yes, sometimes I have to feed my ego, and draw stuff for the masses to pay attention to me. It's a sickness, I know. I'm trying to fix it.
I got a couple messages asking if I left. Anyway, if they don't like it, they can eat a bag of dicks.
~N~
There's enough room on the internet for both sides. So shut up, pick up your pencils, and draw. Fuckers.
"We encourage fellow artists to try drawing something more meaningful than just porn and pinups. You don't HAVE to, and we won't lose any respect for you if you don't. We just want to see what you can do."
I've been saying this all along, but coming from me (since I don't draw porn at all) it DOES sound to some people like I'm saying "PORN IS EVIL STOP DRAWING IT". But I'm not.
It just makes me frustrated that this fandom defends this sea of porn and doesn't support non-porn as much, only to turn around and go "what? People think we're perverts? MEDIA LIES!!!"
We made our bed, so we sleep in it.
Anime was seen as nothing but Hentai and naughty school girls at first by a LOT of people, but after some really amazing NON PORN work started to get imported, that's when it gained respect. Honestly, I think the furry fandom could gain the same notoriety if we have a couple of really awesome Gen. Audience things come out of it.
No, that doesn't mean there won't be PORN anymore, because goodness knows there's still TONS of hentai. But if you have awesome clean work to overshadow the porn, it will work for us and maybe.,.... just maybe.... we won't be harassed anymore.
::quits talking before someone calls her a prude and a porn-hater::
BTW: That wasn't a dig at smelly guys that live with their mums; just tends to be a steriotype. Bring up furries to a bunch of normal people and see what they picture, I bet it's close to that discription.
Nice call about the Anime thing though =D
~N~
My beef with porn art is not so much the art itself, but the fact that the fandom almost doesn't care about your art unless you draw porn, at least every once in awhile. I feel kind of pressured NOT to draw clean rt because it seems not a whole lot of people give a damn. I know there are exceptions, as can be seen by my watchlist etc. But in this fandom, if you'd like to make any sort of money on commissions you have to get your name out, and the most effective way to get your name out is to draw porn. I dunno, could be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.
I do agree with you somewhat. I wouldn't be where I am in the fandom if they didn't care at ALL about non-porn, but (a) I could be one of those "once in a while"s and (b) my watch list still doesn't compare with people who draw porn who are on a similar skill level.
Still, I lived off my income from commissions for 6 months at one point, and I didn't draw a single thing pornographic. So the theory of "you can't make money as a furry artist unless you draw porn" is a complete misconception.
What I find amusing is that no one finds anything wrong with pressuring a non-porn artist to draw porn (I get this ALL.THE.TIME), but when someone even just casually suggests "hey porn artists, ya know you could maybe try something PG-13 or lower rating every once in a while", people act like that person just suggested they shoot their dog.
~N~
Also, Riddler= <3
s just *sadface* worthy :c It does suck that clean art doesn't get that gratification.. I mean I pumped out some really good clean images that I spent -ALOT- of time on, only to have a quickl porn doodle tripple the views n' watches. It sucks, but seems that's how things will be :c
And yes. That he does. Best. Villan. EVAR.
~N~
But reading through a lot of your comments, it didnt work anyway xD Yay furries!
I just hope people bust out of their shells and get the message. there is a whole wide world out there... If I, in my pantheism, had to decide on a sin, it would be denying so much of that world.
I do thank you for cutting through the fat, so to speak.
1. Are you also asking the ones who only draw clean artwork to try drawing porn to expand there horizons and draw porn? I sure haven't seen anyone making a journal about that.
2. I don't see how drawing clean stuff expands your horizon you can draw porn/nudity and have them doing anything a clean person is doing except getting dressed.
I'm with ediskrad eat your own damn hamburger and leave mine alone.
3. Also I hear so many people bitching that clean art gets no attention compared to porn. Well with as many people saying this it would seem like clean art could get plenty of attention. They only thing I can figure is teh people saying this are too lazy to go around looking for and faving/commentiong on clean art or they are too busy fapping.
2. Can you take naked furry art *outside* the fandom? Can you show it to little children? Your boss? Can you get people who've never heard of the furry fandom interested in it as art and not just 'that crazy perv thing people make fun of online'? What about making real stories and not just single pinups of personal characters standing around? I think all of that is expanding the horizons quite a bit, and obviously in directions a lot of fandom-centric people don't think about. Nobody's forcing non-hamburgers down anyone's throat, but cursing and throwing fits that people even dare suggest the possibility of taking furry art to another, different level is like going to dinner with someone, ordering a hamburger, and then screaming at your dinner-date for saying 'hey, I've been eating too many hamburgers...this shrimp cocktail looks kinda tasty. You wanna try some?'
3. What about an artist who has thousands and thousands of watchers, who does both adult and clean art, and they get barely a tenth of the +faves of an adult piece on one of their clean pieces? You can't claim those fans who're watching aren't seeing the clean pieces, it's the same artist! Same account! Those watchers are seeing those things and ignoring them. What is a concern is that fans say they want these things to get made, that the fandom isn't solely about the porno and nothing else, and then they turn around and promptly ignore the stuff being made EVEN BY ARTISTS they watch and like.
2. Yes you can take it outiside. No you can't show it to little children but sure you can show your boss and get people outside the fandom interested in it as art with the porn pics. I have done it several times. There are plenty of story's that contain porn that also have real substance to them. Don't bitch at people because you dont' take the time to see them. You see another level i just see you trying to force others to change drawing what they enjoy. You are so concerned with what other people eat and do you can't enjoy your own work. That is kinda sad I feel pity for your type.
3. For porn anyone can enjoy it that is in want of sexual desire. For something that is considered clean others will differ on what is good and what isn't. So like i said the same people bitching are the same ones doing it so the only problem i see here is hypocrites.
2. We're not trying to force others to change drawing. We're encouraging.
3. Hypocrites? How about stupid idiots who assume shit, can't read, and who are overly biased?
Please go back to school.
2 Too many people are getting defensive as soon as they see someone go 'try something other than porn'. Maybe they mean try erotica >:/ maybe they mean try to be more sensual. More intimate? Maybe even more extreme. Ever think of that?
3Ponygirl already covered this so I'm not going to repeat what she said.
2. Sex is sex porn is porn no matter what name you slap on it.
3. then see post above.
2. think you
3. like to argue. /:3
The art thing wasn't directed at you I don't even know if you draw or not.
Well, whether anyone draws or not, there's no forcing or dissuading going on here. As I mentioned in my first post, it's all about encouraging folks to leave their bubbles of safety. If that means trying new things in porn then do that. Isn't one of the points of learning to draw was so that you can get better? I figure so with how often folks keep asking other artists how they do things.
If you do not apply the things you learn you may be comfortable, but you're not going to change and if you're doing art for recognition then you will get left by the way side.
Some of this misinterpretation is from folks not reading the whole thing. Other folks expressing their points too aggressively and then the few folks who don't care to understand just want to be assholes.
Animation loop of a dog guy and a dog girl fucking - 3022 favorites.
Color comic page of two dog guys fucking - 1289 favorites (new, so I presume this number could still be growing).
Four pictures, each in color, of a cute citra in a non-pornographic pose - 329 favorites...254 favorites...276 favorites...271 favorites.
Despite your claim that he doesn't have a problem getting the comments/faves, clearly his audience seems to demonstrate my #3 point exactly. Clean art DOESN'T get anywhere near the same attention compared to porn, even if the source is the same artist's gallery.
On an unrelated note, I find it hilarious that you make all these assumptions about who I am and what I do (is it perhaps solely based on my own FA gallery?) and what my outlook on art and porn is. I mean, really, wow. Bricks. All over the floor. <XD
Besides, this isn't an issue of equality... There doesn't need to be one.
2. Then you don't see it. Enjoy your burger.
3. It's just a fact of FA, or anywhere. Dirty stuff gets more attention than clean, and that hurts sometimes. But what can you do?
2. I shall
3. If all you do it for is the attention you get you are an attention whore. WAY TO GO
No matter what we say, you assume we're attacking porn. You're defending a castle that we're not even attacking.
"Maybe you're disgusted by clothing and non-porn"? What ludicrous directions are you trying to pull this discussion towards?
Also, the primary reason why artists post on FA is for comments and feedback. The other reasons are to share art, and to be seen. If someone wants to feel bad because their hard work goes unnoticed, because there's no porn in it, then fucking let them, because hey... it feels like shit when you put a lot of work into something that gets more attention than some porn you hacked out.
But hey, enough of the comments tangent there. Point of the matter is this is all about encouragement, and you'll never understand that, I guess.
I'm not trying to pull it anywhere but saying that they find it disgusting won't help. There are nudiest about that find such things as cloths disgusting.
I have no problem with someone feeling bad tehy are welcome to it. But don't try and dump there shit on other people and bitch about it because they don't like the fact that there submissions isn't getting the attention THEY think it deserves. Lots of people take there time to make there porn submissiosn look good.
You are trying to encourage people because you don't like the way things stand when there really is no problem with how they are. You are trying to force your belief that people must draw what you deam worthy for it not to be just hacked up stuff. I'm done with this shit it is obvious you aren't seeing just how hypocritcal you are.
How many times do I have to say that we are not attacking porn???
I...NEVER.... EVER said that people HAD to do ANYTHING you bumbling numbskull!!
I'm encouraging people to do it because I simply would LIKE to see it.
Good. Leave and never fucking come back you illiterate moron. Your stupidity is fucking VIRAL...
I know I read through GunMouth's post, and I never saw a single one of these attacks or claims that porn is uncreative and that clean art is required in order to be creative and special and covered in fucking pixie-wings and whatnot. Not once in the post did GunMouth say anything about not liking how things stand. He's suggested that some artists try something new. Just because you don't draw porn doesn't mean there's nothing to take from this post, either. Hell, it's making me think about other directions to take my work, and most people can tell you I hardly draw anything adult, myself (my gallery is a poor example as I've been unproductive, so there's, like, three pictures there right now). You're really getting worked up over nothing.
Seriously. Take a deep breath. Relax. Calm down. Let your guard down for just a second.
Not everything said is out of malcontent in this world. Sometimes, people just have something to say.
but
Every sperm is needed in your neighbourhood. (Movie Quote Counter xD)
Though they have a common trait...asside "shooting":
If you get killed with a gun, you can become a hero.
If you get killed with a penis you can become an hero. xD
This answer is pun and rubbish...and now to something completly different.
But there's nothing really wrong with porn. It can be amazingly well done, creative and expressive. Just because it's adult in nature doesn't mean it's lesser than a clean work. Thinking that just makes you a prude and honestly pretty stuck up. It all depends on how it's executed.
And something being clean doesn't mean it's any good either. A standard still life drawing is just that. Nothing special. It's not creative in the least. So again, it all depends on how it's executed.
Is there anything wrong with doing both? Nope. Is there anything wrong with limiting yourself to only one or the other? Not really, if it makes you happy. But regardless of what you decided to pursue, you should strive to improve the way you do it.
Still, it tears me up when I see a really good artist do nothing but porn, or just do a couple of clean pictures that are basically provocative poses with some revealing clothing on. I know they can do better, and I'd like to see what they're capable of.
I see those around and I know that most newly come to be furs what drove them to be a fur in the first place was the porn more likely than not. I know that was my case. I can at least admit that unlike others who can't admit to some things like this thinking it is bad. But in all honesty I believe a majority of furs are furs because of the porn and even though they can like the clean stuff as well like I do time to time, without the porn they wouldn't be here.
I am probably indifferent about this. Clean work should be better appreciated but we all know it won't because more prefer porn. Only ones who's clean work gets many views and favorites are really famous people like ZEN of Adam Wan. But even saying this I can admit I prefer to see porn. I am not afraid to admit that as some would be with their "I like both" comments. There are some clean works I enjoy and it tends to be an appreciation to how well the art looks. While with porn, as would many feel, as long as it gets them horny they are good. It can look cruddy compared to a beautiful clean picture and yet that porn picture will be more viewed upon because of how it turns them on.
Of course just like any debate this is going to be never ending, no one is gonna agree on one side or the other.
As for Zardoz, I don't think I ever made it through that film. It was on pretty late in the morning and I just kinda' gave up. I was just too tired to follow it. Worst part: Haven't found it since. My one shot aside and it was ruined by sleepiness.
Curse you need for sleep! You ruin bad movies for me! >.<
*Pops on "The Brain That Wouldn't Die" and returns to his webcomic*
A lot of my own PERSONAL thoughts are a lot of the fetishes out there are highly inappropriate. Such as two women boxing naked. That pisses me off, female boxers have it tough. I don't like it. But I tried setting a better example and failed... big.
However, what makes me mad is those same two boxers punching each other in the twats and drawing blood in doing so, then the loser gets oral. To me that goes beyond a kink into a sickness.
There is more I stand for, it's just something I couldn't fight. I have seen MANY artists who when I met them refused to do porn, and yet in the end, to get the attention they DESERVE they had to. Now, they do nothing but porn. I mean, what is it, laced with meth or something?
In Strypes journal I put it like this. In the fandom people need to step back and look at something longer than it takes to unzip their fly, get their rocks off, and go to sleep. They're missing the bigger picture. It's like street rodders vs rice rocketeers on the street, they're BOTH missing out. Politicians, same thing. Star Trek vs Star Wars, same thing.
It seems to me, and I may be wrong, that people either close their minds so much their mind is suffocated or they're so open their brains fall out.
Or maybe the door to their minds open SO MUCH the door goes all the way around and shuts again.
Like I said, you say it better than I ever could.
What do you mean by "unnecessary and poorly thought-out blowjob"?
Artist C wants to draw B&D, so be it as well.
Whatever the artist wants to do. I'll look or I won't.
wow i love that terrible movie
Firstly, this journal is f*cking win. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here about it all.
Now before anyone tries to jump down my throat about it, lemme give my view. I personally don't have a problem with the porn on the site. I knew it was here when I signed up (though in much large numbers than I was expecting) and I still recognise a lot of it as having a great deal of artistic merit. That's part of the reason why I'm here after all, I know that even in all the porn there's still a whole lot of artwork worth checking out and learning from, both porn and non-porn. You and Kami are particularly good at this; you both mix it up between the two but it always comes across as artistic.
I of course agree about some people needing to mix it up since a lot of them drawn nothing BUT porn. Again, I've little objection to it, but it would again be nice to see something a bit different from time to time.
I noticed some people had the impression that this was saying non-porn equals creative and artistic and porn is just porn, but I think it's quite clear that this isn't what you were saying. Both can be something simple, something for instant gratification, a doodle, or something highly creative. It's only the content that's different, and that seems to be what's got everyone hung up.
Basically, those who are only going to draw porn should either try a least one clean piece OR add something a bit more creative/artistic/sensual/humourous to it other than flat-out porn.
Those in the non-porn camp should take that same advice and put it to their own uses.
At the end of the day, both sides are probably just as guilty of the things they're arguing against, and could both do with trying something new.
So yeah, this journal is made of win and it's great to see some encouragement like this for other artists to expand their horizons :)
Though, I do have to say, it's sad someone will take the time to comment on a crappy porn piece, yet completely ignore a masterpiece that took several days to complete. But I better shut up before some retard gets into some argument about the argument of art quality...
But yeah, guess we should walk away before someone jumps in about quality... Tah tahh!
huh I had no idea making a webcomic was like some sort of prerequisite or something.
I thought it was just something for an elite few who are worthy/bold enough to do it and make it succeed and stuff.
and I thought of it as a thing that needs a website (and paid web hosting) to along with it