It shall be done. I want to take action for a cause worthy like this. *Takes this journal and goes to post it on mine*

The extent to which people in this county don't understand how our government actually works really bothers me. These are things that ALL citizens need to know.

The various government bodies of the U.S. simply cannot do what this petition asks. They can't "make a religious group illegal." Sorry guys. Likewise, they can't prevent anyone from believing that homosexuality "is a choice and not OK," from promoting that viewpoint, from publishing literature on the subject or from congregating with other people to discuss it.

About the only thing that could legally be done to discourage these types of groups is to revoke the license of any medical professional who practices these types of "therapies" or recommends them to their patients.

True, but it shouldn't be something parents can force on minors either.

California has actually done this. It was taken to court, but the law still stands that minors can't undergo this therapy.

I know right? But I bet if there was a vote to repeal prop 8 in California again it would be repealed.

I just had an idea. Despite what you say (this is just a joke) call gay marriage: Marriage 2.0. Our society is getting tech savvy and they always want the latest available version of things XD

*playfully roles eyes* you do know that stands for Generation right? I mean, being a tech nerd I kinda gotta endorse that stance.

True, and the experts do state that this procedure is harmful to whoever endures it and the government's job is to protect us from harm. Regretfully this could question the freedom of speech, but then again I've compared radically it to suicide. Suicide can be considered a treatment for severe depression if the patient desires it, but you will probably never find a professional psychologist that will endorse it or find one able to suggest it as actual treatment.

I just feel that the purpose behind this is just for cruelty and an excuse to ignore tolerance. Leviticus and other verses say to stone or condemn the gay man to death or as an abomination; I don't recall reading anything that suggests that they should try to cure us.

Professional Psychologist is the key distinction. I could advocate suicide or assisted suicide for example, but a medical professional might get in trouble for doing so... which wouldn't stop him or her from advocating suicide, just from practicing medicine legally.

Though the government operates for the benefit of the general public, "protecting us from harm" is also not the government's job. That's a fallacious belief. The Supreme Court has ruled, not just once but many times, that the government does not have a "duty" to protect you (and therefore, generally cannot be held liable when they fail to protect you) from external harm (meaning harm not created by the state). The government is not responsible for preventing harm generally, or for foreseeing and mitigating potentially harmful situations, but rather is given specific powers of enforcement related to mitigating specific types of harm, that they have been instructed to deal with by law. They are not however, legally obligated to use those powers.

I do think that denying someone the right to practice medicine, or call themselves a licensed therapist is a legal and good solution to this, as is restricting the "therapy" from minors, but that's a bit trickier. They should have done a bit more research worded the petition accordingly.

In our Declaration of Independence (even though this is not a document that is used like the constitution or the bill of rights) We the people...provide for the common defense. It is an implied responsibility for a country to protects it's citizens from external or internal harm. We have law enforcement and the army to enact those said responsibilities.

May I ask, I'm into political discussions a little so if we want to take this to a note go ahead and note me, what supreme court cases did you have in mind when referring to an absence of duty?

The extent to which people underestimate other people's intelligence really bothers me.
You think this petition was posted with the idea that they'll totally do it just because we say so? What do you take these people for? The whole point of the petition is to say "Hey, there's some serious demand for this thing. How about you guys step on it and satisfy the people you're meant to be representing." And it's not about banning a religious group; it's about banning the PRACTICE they undergo. Satanism, for example, is not banned. At the same time, human sacrifice is. Fucking DURR.

No, I do not have much faith in people, but this is not the product of mere speculation but of real observations. A study showed that one in three adult Americans could not pass the test about U.S. government and law that's given to immigrants who want to obtain U.S. citizenship. Less than half of all eligible adults in this country vote. This is a serious problem. Americans are not very engaged in our processes of government and are largely ignorant of how it all works.

And while specific practices associated with a religion can be banned, marijuana smoking and rastafarians for example, this is a double whammy because what this group is practicing is free speech, which also can't be made illegal.

You can't curse on certain TV stations and shows or before a particular time of the evening. Many songs on the radio get their lyrics bleeped out. If you insult a cop, then you're probably going to get arrested. Teachers cannot mandate prayer in schools, plus there are regulations on what they can legally say to students. There are laws against verbal abuse, bullying in the workplace etc. Free speech is not a limitless power. It can be and has been made illegal in many situations.

I don't think you really understand the concept behind free speech. The fact that something can't be aired on television doesn't mean it can't be distributed or promoted at all. Private schools can, in fact, mandate prayer, and public schools cannot likewise tell students they are not allowed to pray if they want to. That is freedom speech and freedom of religion. Hate speech, in fact, is rather well protected. There's no way a law against "ex-gay" speech would hold up to judicial review.

Expressing an opinion that is controversial, against a certain group is allowed as long as it isn't harassment. And that's a good thing, because "freedom to say what is socially accepted or politically correct" isn't free speech at all. That defeats the purpose of free speech, which is to be able to say things which are controversial or unpopular or go against the wishes of the government. This matters because it was only a few years ago that we, in the U.S. were legally oppressed. Promoting acceptance of homosexuality was a controversial idea. And it was illegal in the U.S. in many places to distribute magazines about gay lifestyle topics. And, the Supreme Court, in a landmark case in 1957, struck down prohibitions on gay magazines, saying that such prohibitions violated protected freedoms of speech. Homosexuality was very controversial and unpopular at the time. That's why it has to go both ways, because what one person thinks is right, another thinks is wrong. Gays were (and in some countries still are), in fact, harmed by restrictions that people put on free speech. You have to allow both sides to express their viewpoint. The government has to be completely neutral when it comes to free speech and allow controversial speech to the fullest extent possible. Because what was once controversial and even illegal is accepted today. Imagine if gay publications were still illegal under "obscenity" laws.

'Free speech' is a pretty self-explanatory term; please don't tell me I don't understand it. We are talking about something more than free speech. At least, I am.
It's not a petition to make anti-gay speech illegal. It's a petition to abolish a practice which claims to fix a problem that isn't even a problem, all while instilling a sense of guilt and alienation in those who are made to take part. There is a significantly higher suicide rate amongst those who undergo these so-called therapies than the rest of the gay population. Many of those who take part are either minors who have no say in the matter, or adults who only start going so that they can be accepted by their bigoted families. This practice does not work, and in fact causes severe psychological damage.

I see it as no different as telling me I can't go to a witch doctor, or to a psychic healer or some some holistic "crystals and woo-woo" healer. There are people who go to those kinds of things, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they do not work, and that whatever medical condition is affecting them will probably get worse if they choose to do that instead of using conventional medicine... Should they not be free to do so and choose what they want for themselves? I think would go against freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of association to prohibit those things. I do not see "conversion therapy" as any different.

The only thing I do agree with, is that those things (and conversion therapy) should not be recognized as a legitimate medical practice. That is something that I think is within the power of the government to do. In the case of minors, yes, I think there can be some cases where this could be considered child abuse and prosecuted as child abuse to send a child to an illegitimate form of therapy. But for adults, no, it is not the government's business to stop you from making bad choices. Maybe it's the government's job to inform you that they're bad, but that's it!

I think i've asked this before but can foreigners sign these petitions?

Sure thing.

Regrettably I do believe you need a US Address to sign. However I have not confirmed this.

Signed :)

This group is so bad sometimes. Everyone's all chatty about how awful homophobia is and how measures need to be taken, yet EVERY time the admin gives them a chance to actually do something (even something little that will never inconvenience them, ever), everyone goes completely unresponsive and apathetic. Yeah, maybe the petition won't go anywhere. Maybe it won't do anything. So what? It's not like you have anything to lose. For fuck's sake, people. If you're not going to take two minutes to sign a damn petition, or even acknowledge it, when you KNOW it will never do any harm, then you have no right to complain.

Thank you. No, I don't think that this will make Conversion Therapy illegal but I do think it's the most progressive step we can take to that goal. The fact is that we've known the truth, but we've been tolerant to search for "expected" results from these ministries. I had the idea of writing to my representatives in congress...but I live in Texas and almost all of them have always voted against gay rights.

The experts have given their conclusions towards this idea that homosexuality cannot be cured, and yet it's still something that is experimented with and it's just the main purpose to in fact propose homophobia: The fact that they think they can "cure" us. If we could just knock it out of their heads that there's nothing to cure, we can influence them to put down the bible from their face and look up at what is going on with what they speak. The experts needs the general population's support. Because CLEARLY a lot of people are ignoring the truth.

*applause!* Fuck YA! Preach it! (I signed it btw)

I signed it, and i do agree that a few people have their heads in the sand

Is there proof that none of those things work?

I have proof, I was sent to a conversion therapy in the military (Air Force) because my squadron found out I was gay (due to a female who blackmailed me in front of everyone for attention right after i said I wasn;t being my true self). Went in gay, came out even gayer. they didn't really do anything to change me, and thankfully they banned the practiced after the overturn of DADT (because it was during the time of that law)

My therapist has said to me I could be gay but I keep sticking with bi because I do love woman but my sexual feelings are not as strong like it is with men.

everyone is different but it has been proven that therapy to change a sexuality is false

What activities they gave you and what advice they offer?

they tried showing stiraght porn/things to me, didn't work at all, then they tried to get me around the oppisite gender, that was a total fail

Man, what lame therapy.

agreed, at least i got to waste an hour doing nothing instead of working

Very true man.

And signed

That site is so over the place with it's petitions, from the liberal, to the conservative, to the racist (There are petitions there saying Anti-Racist is Anti-White. Blegghh) to the inane (yet would be funny, sich as petitioning Obama to re-enact the scene from the Incredibles where Frozone is looking for his suit.)

HONEY?!
Whaaaat?
WHERE'S MAAAHH SUPAH-SOOT??

Some children are forced into conversion therapy by their parents and grow up psychologically damaged and even suicidal. I'd call that imminent harm.

people are forced to this therapy (escappaly children)

This is as simple as preventing mental damage. It's not about repressing religious views, it's about protecting mental health.

I had a friend who was bi with a male preference until he went to a PAG camp. After which he swore he was straight, even though he still showed signs of attraction. He recently came out again as bi.

It's just promoted self-denial, and will never lead to happiness. Although, with the American government, it's a fat chance this will be law. We don't make laws against intrusive things like this. For example, while Germany makes circumcisions illegal, we would never do that. However intrusive. We're too much for "Everyone's rights" that people end up effecting others with them.

Can you share this with your friend who experienced it and get his perspective? I only considered (and came close to requesting to attend therapy) and would like to witness a more experienced perspective on this.

I asked him before. I don't quite recall exactly, but I'm quite sure he told me it was unpleasant, but also forced on him.

I have not taken it, but I highly suggest against it. It is only promoted self-denial. If one is already keen on denying one's self, it will work. But by work, I don't mean make you straight, I mean successfully push you to complete self-denial, which is very mentally unhealthy. He was never straight, he just was lead to believe so. Be happy in your skin, mate.

Do tell him of this petition will you?

I may or may not. I dunno, I don't believe if this petition is successful that it will change anything. I don't believe in American government. I will try to mention it, though.

Thank you. Even though this may not pass a law, it will influence the people if we could just get the signatures.

done, now time to share this with others ^^

Oh look, there's a bunch of raving reviews ~!
Critics say that the damn therapy doesn't work at all~! =D

[SlowClap.dtshd]

I know right? I can't find a decent brand.

BTW LOVE your Zuul~

I would love to, but I can't. Site is broken so I try to log in, it says it does not work, maybe I do not have an account, so I make one and it says email in use, so I got to forgot password and it says email is not registered and now I am just like... http://www.ircblog.net/images/full/.....5a7f_full.jpeg

I signed it, because i went through it twice in the military (they wanted to cure me of being gay because the women that sexually assaulted me were convincing them that i was in the wrong), and it's a waste of time and energy. Went in gay, came out 100% gay

If you were gay then why did you did it with her? Did she made you?

I have to echo the sentiment that someone should have their licenses revoked, not make it illegal. Although, licenses are for proof of skill... they should be guilty of some ethical violation for doing it.

I definitely understand what kind of horrible practice this is, and how much pain it has brought people, and how much it doesn't work. But I am against making it illegal. Not necessarily against it being illegal for minors.

In a strange turn of events, apparently Exodus International, the largest "ex-gay" ministry has completely turned course, announcing they are going to cease operations, have declared that "conversion therapy" does not change one's sexual orientation and has apologized to the gay community.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/.....,2320247.story

I read he was gay himself I think.