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The Universe doesn't like its peas mixed with its porridge.
12 years ago
⭐️ be rootin, be tootin, and by god be shootin ⭐️ So, this might come across as my just rambling about things that might not make any particular sense. I will likely contradict myself, make mistakes, backtrack or argue against myself. At this point I'm merely writing out these thoughts to try to tie them all into some coherence.
SO.
We will assume that the dimensions have dimension-tied conscious beings, for the sake of my argument. If you want to think of Flat Land, that will work. These beings have no knowledge of the dimensions ahead of it, but they can look back on dimensions before it, which are of course required to build the next dimensional level.
The first four are spatial dimensions, of course.
The zeroth dimension has a single consciousness. It knows itself, it knows one point. It does not move for it does not need to. It is singular and at peace. The irony of it being 0 but being singular does not fall upon deaf ears, but that's a story for another time.
The first dimension knows to go forward and back. It doesn't need to know any other way or existence. It goes forward, it goes back.
The second dimensional being now knows how to form squares. It can move left and right, up and down. It's very happy in its own way.
The third dimensional being knows cubes. It knows tangibility and depth. It can move closer and it can move away.
Now, the fourth one always troubles me as there's some debate on how it works spatially. That is, the way it works spatially could actually be a product of time. So, in a way, it is more temporal than spatial...
We are fourth dimensional beings with a three dimensional perspective. That basically means that we can witness the world in three dimensions but exist in four.
Now, here's my first musing.
We can perceive a zeroth dimensional being even if they can't perceive us. We know they exist, and as such they must exist in our dimension but perceive in the zeroth. Similarly, we might exist in dimensions beyond ours but be unable to perceive it, similar to existing in 4th but seeing in 3rd. (I use 'seeing' loosely). What are we doing in the other dimensions? It's hard to say.
But imagine a fifth dimensional being looking at us. The world would 'look' like a series of animated still frames forming a long, infinite chain of events. this is also assuming just a singular destiny. If you take into account multiple universe theories of choice creating a new 'you' and a new path, then the path of a single person would exponentially begin to appear like a crowded, neverending choice hydra.
This is what I mean about being able to exist in multiple dimensions but being unable to perceive beyond our own effectively. Can you picture what I mean when I say that you could see all possible outcomes overlaying and exponentially branching out? Like cross-sections or x-rays laid on top of each other, eventually you're going to be unable to picture the original outcome. Yet, out there, some being CAN, being a fifth dimensional consciousness. We can barely imagine, and we surely can't confirm.
This is why a 2D being would never even think of a 3D world. They wouldn't know that there's a corner to turn to go around something. It's not in their nature of understanding.
Yet, we can mentally turn that cube and see the corner... Just as a 5D could 'turn' our existence and see every outcome.
then, also remember what dimensions ARE. they are, essentially, scales of measurement. For each dimension we also have two opposing scales, particularly in physics when we're dealing with spatial dimensions.
Up/Down, Left/Right, Forward/Back.
This is why I said we NEED perception of the precursory dimensions to build our understanding of the new ones.
Then a 4th dimensional being has their own added scale. Ana/Kata, as it would have it. 'up forward' and 'down from'. This gif will help you see why. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.....ell-simple.gif
In practical terms of movement, what you get from each higher dimension is a way to get around obstacles in the lower dimensions. In a 1D world like a line, you can only go forward and backward, so you can't get around anything. If you gain access to the second dimension, then you can get around obstacles by going left or right, but you're still stuck if you're inside a square. Using the third dimension, you can go over or under the walls of the square, but you're still stuck if you're in a cube. For that, you need to gain access to a fourth dimension and get around the cube by going ana or kata.
So, to recap. It's obvious that we need the primitive dimensions to build our current perception. We can perceive a 1D or a 2D being as existing even if it can't perceive us. It stands to reason that we do exist in the other dimensions and can be perceived by higher dimensional beings, but we are unable to get over our obstacles, as it were. Such things as time and matter are still limitations to us, but to a higher dimensional being they would be secondary. In essence, this would make a higher dimensional being omnipotent, at least by our standards. But then, would they have their own limitations? When does it stop?
I've begun to think of 'god' as the parameters by which we exist. It is no entity, but rather the highest dimension which encapsulates all other dimensional beings. Instead of it being a consciousness looking over the universe, it IS the universe, and we are a part of it. God is nothing more than regulated order beyond our abilities, like a neverending algorithm which we mistake for chaos.
To us it is asymptotic. To the universe, everything is already begun, finished and restarted in one instant.
It's all a matter of your perceptual limitations.
SO.
We will assume that the dimensions have dimension-tied conscious beings, for the sake of my argument. If you want to think of Flat Land, that will work. These beings have no knowledge of the dimensions ahead of it, but they can look back on dimensions before it, which are of course required to build the next dimensional level.
The first four are spatial dimensions, of course.
The zeroth dimension has a single consciousness. It knows itself, it knows one point. It does not move for it does not need to. It is singular and at peace. The irony of it being 0 but being singular does not fall upon deaf ears, but that's a story for another time.
The first dimension knows to go forward and back. It doesn't need to know any other way or existence. It goes forward, it goes back.
The second dimensional being now knows how to form squares. It can move left and right, up and down. It's very happy in its own way.
The third dimensional being knows cubes. It knows tangibility and depth. It can move closer and it can move away.
Now, the fourth one always troubles me as there's some debate on how it works spatially. That is, the way it works spatially could actually be a product of time. So, in a way, it is more temporal than spatial...
We are fourth dimensional beings with a three dimensional perspective. That basically means that we can witness the world in three dimensions but exist in four.
Now, here's my first musing.
We can perceive a zeroth dimensional being even if they can't perceive us. We know they exist, and as such they must exist in our dimension but perceive in the zeroth. Similarly, we might exist in dimensions beyond ours but be unable to perceive it, similar to existing in 4th but seeing in 3rd. (I use 'seeing' loosely). What are we doing in the other dimensions? It's hard to say.
But imagine a fifth dimensional being looking at us. The world would 'look' like a series of animated still frames forming a long, infinite chain of events. this is also assuming just a singular destiny. If you take into account multiple universe theories of choice creating a new 'you' and a new path, then the path of a single person would exponentially begin to appear like a crowded, neverending choice hydra.
This is what I mean about being able to exist in multiple dimensions but being unable to perceive beyond our own effectively. Can you picture what I mean when I say that you could see all possible outcomes overlaying and exponentially branching out? Like cross-sections or x-rays laid on top of each other, eventually you're going to be unable to picture the original outcome. Yet, out there, some being CAN, being a fifth dimensional consciousness. We can barely imagine, and we surely can't confirm.
This is why a 2D being would never even think of a 3D world. They wouldn't know that there's a corner to turn to go around something. It's not in their nature of understanding.
Yet, we can mentally turn that cube and see the corner... Just as a 5D could 'turn' our existence and see every outcome.
then, also remember what dimensions ARE. they are, essentially, scales of measurement. For each dimension we also have two opposing scales, particularly in physics when we're dealing with spatial dimensions.
Up/Down, Left/Right, Forward/Back.
This is why I said we NEED perception of the precursory dimensions to build our understanding of the new ones.
Then a 4th dimensional being has their own added scale. Ana/Kata, as it would have it. 'up forward' and 'down from'. This gif will help you see why. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.....ell-simple.gif
In practical terms of movement, what you get from each higher dimension is a way to get around obstacles in the lower dimensions. In a 1D world like a line, you can only go forward and backward, so you can't get around anything. If you gain access to the second dimension, then you can get around obstacles by going left or right, but you're still stuck if you're inside a square. Using the third dimension, you can go over or under the walls of the square, but you're still stuck if you're in a cube. For that, you need to gain access to a fourth dimension and get around the cube by going ana or kata.
So, to recap. It's obvious that we need the primitive dimensions to build our current perception. We can perceive a 1D or a 2D being as existing even if it can't perceive us. It stands to reason that we do exist in the other dimensions and can be perceived by higher dimensional beings, but we are unable to get over our obstacles, as it were. Such things as time and matter are still limitations to us, but to a higher dimensional being they would be secondary. In essence, this would make a higher dimensional being omnipotent, at least by our standards. But then, would they have their own limitations? When does it stop?
I've begun to think of 'god' as the parameters by which we exist. It is no entity, but rather the highest dimension which encapsulates all other dimensional beings. Instead of it being a consciousness looking over the universe, it IS the universe, and we are a part of it. God is nothing more than regulated order beyond our abilities, like a neverending algorithm which we mistake for chaos.
To us it is asymptotic. To the universe, everything is already begun, finished and restarted in one instant.
It's all a matter of your perceptual limitations.
This was brilliant and this exactly my thoughts I could never put into words.
Seriously~ There needs to be a group for people who think like this. ugh'
http://www.cracked.com/article_1653.....hile-high.html
But I already knew that.
There are a million, million worlds. All different and all similar. Constants and variables. There’s always a lighthouse, there’s always a man, there’s always a city… Sometimes something’s different… yet… the same."
~Annabelle Dewitt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Do....._of_Perception
Also, Bioshock Infinite reference? Or has that been said outside of the game before?
I really do love when a good game/movie/book gets you thinking like this~
(I know it is, just need a second opinion.)
I look forward to the next hour or re-reading this to try and figure it out! (that says nothing about you, I'm sure it makes perfect sense; I'm just slow as hell xD;)
The 4th dimention is called "time" and it could for example represent an item or a beeing at any time during it's 'life'. Imagine a flower, at first it grows from a single seed, then it grows bigger and eventually becomes a flower and then eventually dies and decay. If you look at this flower in a 4d view, you would be able to see ALL these stages as it evolves both in the past, present and the future. The link you linked it a tesseract, it's the shadow of a 4d cube casted into a 3d world since we Can't see in 4d.
And we do not live in a 4d world with the ability to see in 3d, no. We live in a 3d world with the ability to see in 2d, we have two eyes and we see two almost exactly identical 2d images and with training, we can judge distance. Try closing one of your eyes and look at something that stays still, can you judge distance or does everything just look flat? kind of like a 2d picture drawn by an artist that try to make it look like it has dept but not quite enough to be called 3d.
When i were in school and we had orientation, most people could not learn to read a map very easy, and a map is only in 2d.... Think of a 3d hologram, said people would not even know what they are loooking at, and they would absolutely not find their way around using it.
Yes our brains are capable of thinking in 3d but the human race is spoled, and it would take much teaching and practice to get used to a 3d map even though you interact with the 3d world around you every day.
It's readily agreed upon that we exist and perceive the third dimension.
Why? Because here's how a two-dimensional world would work:
ho hum, left right, left right, OMG WHAT IS THAT. IS THAT A CROSS-SECTION OF A HUMAN? and another crosssection. and another. and another. and now it's gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx.....p;noredirect=1
Please, watch this before you reply.
Frustrated? Yes.
Angry? no.
It's not about SEEING. It really is not about the visual representation of the dimension. Space exists outside of vision. You can touch things, experience them, think in a three dimensional space, namely left/right, up/down, forward/back. you are letting the pesky invention of '3D vision' severely hinder you in understanding the true concept.
We are talking about existing in three dimensions. EXISTING. Just as we can EXIST in 4D (time) without being able to see it.
YES a tesseract is a visual representation of it, but you're letting the analogy become the fact, not the other way around.
To my mind, I prefer to think that space and time are just the human conception of the universe to live in it, but eh...al that is just intellectual masturbation after all
If the 4th is the space between one moment and the other (duration) then the 5th would follow the pattern and be alternate timelines to that point. Kinda like folding a 2D surface into a mobius strip.
And space/time ARE human concepts of the universe, but we must recall that our perspective is the only one we know.
So, in short, you're stating the same thing as me anyway. XD Though maybe I didn't get around to explaining it here as much as I did in other conversations. That's one fault with continuing a theme for a while. I forget who I told what.
And honestly, I know that my god analogy is going to cause some tension because people still believe god is an entity or a being with consciousness/interest in us. My analogy removes the idea of god and simply leaves the system. No frivolities, no real purpose, no 'love'.
It's kinda comforting for me because numbers don't have favoritism or rules you have to live up to. their rules aren't a choice for us.
Plants can also use sunlight (aka radiation) to gain nutrients. In that respect, the Aztecs and egyptians could have been onto something by recognizing a diety that was in control of the sun itself. Technically the Sun could be categorized as a 4th dimensional entity with a highly tangible mark on the 3rd dimension we can observe...or would it be a 3rd dimensional entity that creates exponential amounts of 4th dimensional matter?
Regardless, if this theory was to be proven as true, would that mean we, produce 4th dimensional matter as well? Would our souls (if we have them) be "upgraded" to the 4th (or higher) dimension wen we die? If so, could this explain our knowledge and detection of the supernatural?
This is all wildly interesting to me right now..
Of course, we can argue that they are the same world, unchanging, but we could also easily argue that each moment is a new world with some form of change in each one that makes it unique. Again, like still-frames in an animation. Each frame is undeniably different, even in a minute way. This is how space and time begin to intermix.
I am not sure how you are pulling radiation in as a 4th dimensional phenomenon. XD
The 6th dimension, however, would be exactly how you described it above: a chimera of possible timelines flowing from one entity. However it may look, that would come from the addition of a Z axis to the time variable. (in the example shown to me, what i am explaining to you [poorly], imagine a human being that is along an X and a Y axis. The person moves in the positive X direction for time because he can only move forwards in time. With the 5th dimension, there are unlimited possibilities of this person, all with different destinies, all in parallel universes that run along the Y axis. At any one point, a 5th dimensional being could see an infinite number of possibilities, but they would trail off into the horizon and the being would not get a clear view of each. he would have to go to them. In the 6th dimension, this being would have the added height available to see ALL possibilities from a potentially "bird's eye view". This is where I believe you could get the scenario you talked about for the 5th dimension).
That's why we tend to use visual analogies.
The knowledge of the universe is not very complementary to sleep.
http://youtu.be/M9sbdrPVfOQ
You are correct that we exist in four dimensions, but incorrect to say we only perceive three - the standard physical formulation is that there are three spatial dimensions and a single temporal dimension, and we're perfectly capable of perceiving all of them.
Of course, as I suspect you know, these dimensions are not wholly independent - movement in space can affect the apparent passage of time, so on, so forth. Relativity is a large subject and I don't want to get into that :p
I'm not sure I agree, though, that there must exist a "fifth-dimensional" or "higher-dimensional" being that has access to extra dimensions. For starters, the existence of dimensions beyond the classical four has never actually been established, although the various string theories have suggested it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String.....tra_dimensions gives a brief explanation, but bear in mind that the predicted extra dimensions have never been observed - they're just a mathematical neccessity to make the predictions of string theory line up with our observed universe.
Even if we accept that one of these theories is correct, though, and that additional dimensions are present, that doesn't imply that we live in some kind of limited-dimensional 'flatworld', or that a superior consciousness would be able to dive through all these extra dimensions. Even if these dimensions exist, they may be 'compactified' in such a way that renders them more or less irrelevant on any kind of macroscopic scale. Again, though, I repeat that there is to my knowledge no evidence that extra dimensions beyond the spacetime four actually exist. Open to correction on that though!
Also, an apology - I know you just wanted to hash out your thoughts on the subject here, and I doubt you were looking for critique. I know it's no fun, but I thought someone should come in and advocate for boring old scientific orthodoxy, especially becaus all the other commenters seemed so on board with the unproven higher-dimensional stuff :p
I don't know if this question sounds stupid, but do you believe that we, the 4th dimensional beings could somehow communicate with beings from "higher" dimensions? *u* I already thought of making some kind of an easily understandable symbol language to to express: "I'm curious, would u guys like to give some mark of your existence?" I would draw them on paper, act them out by my body or... dunno. Just something that would look strange enough for higher dimensional beings to take a little look at. Something physical, since I don't think they can see into our minds.
(English is not my mother language, so pardon me if something sounds too weird to understand. ^^')