Yep that's pretty much it, that's why it is always fun to find the many underrated and talented artists the fandom has to offer and support them instead.
I'm pretty much guilty of the secon paragraph but hey it brings me joy and others as well. Is it a waste of money ? Of course but so are a lot of things, it's just what I like to do. It is fun to see your char in many different styles and situations. That and I am a slut :O

perhaps "waste" is a bit strong of a word. In the end, it's about what brings you enjoyment. But yeah, this journal was obviously meant to be opinionated and focused on those people who gain their fame from spending money on porn.

Or through raffles. :p

I've posted a similar gripe before. A shoddily written, 1,000 word story of mine will gather all kinds of faves, comments and watches just because it's pronz.

One that I actually put serious effort into writing? Maybe 4 faves, no comments etc.

Not that I really care, I write because I enjoy it, but I would wish that if people were gonna fave and comment on my stuff, it would be for substance rather than subject.

I'll never understand why people like pronz stories.

Holy shit, it's about time someone said this.

Anyway, welcome to two months ago, a stupid rant I made: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5069911/ The main point I suppose is two problems with adult artwork is they stifle creativity (because pictures descend to sex with little to no artistic creativity aside) and that it's just gross and makes non-furs think we're nuts. The most popular artists on FA (http://www.popufur.com/) pretty much got there by pornography and there's no real debate as their galleries are loaded with about 75% smut and I don't even like the style of the art in the first place. My most favorite artists on FA usually hover in the 1000-5000 watcher range, mostly clean artists that I actually have respect for instead of these "art gods" whom most furs will jizz themselves over. Hoo boy, a  blotch picture of a bunch of erect doggy dicks while masturbating!! BUT IT'S ON TRADITIONAL PAPER!! Da Vinci would be proud.

The most popular commissioner I've seen has about 7000 watchers, is a c-boy, and seems to enjoy getting fucked in that mangina of his for watchers I assume (how many more adult pics can one get before they aren't turned on by it anymore???). Any commissioner who can get 2000+ watches is rare IMO. You have to do art or something else creative to topple the likes of popular "clean" artists like  falvie or  keihound. There's also the possibility they're popular for more than just art--perhaps they're integral members of the furry community, who knows. I don't browse forums and have never been to any furry meets so I got nothing going on there.

In defense of commissioners, I think there's a bit of a movement out for us, like all we did was buy our popularity. As someone who dropped $3000+ on commissions, I have to say that's a real ballsy move on my part, all for just 462 watchers, not the 2500+ that some have. A lot of thought goes into which artists I commission and how they depict the characters. Plus I do help feed starving artists who would either starve or (God forbid) have to go out and get a job if it weren't for folks like us to step in. Plus I made a lot of good friends through commissions (artists and guys like you who discovered Phantom art). So before anyone bashes us commissioners, put up $2500+ and shut up, otherwise stay out.

As for adult art pertaining, well, I'm pretty much past the point of no return here. Phantom has been getting sexier and sexier and I'm living on borrowed time with my fur-ginity. I still have my standards and don't plan on indulging in it much. But I can assure you I don't do this for popularity. I don't even want the porno crowd watching me anyway. God forbid I get watchers who are vocal about wanting to plow him every chance they see him. I just hate that I kinda talked myself into a corner ("PORN IS A BAD THING") and yet I succumb to it. After all, you did get that creepy  ruaidri sketch so no one's really clean (unless you're asexual and have no hormones whatsoever). End rant...

An addendum because FA is shit and won't allow you to edit posts. By "not fond of popufur art styles," it's because it becomes way too detailed and loses the simple cartoony style I usually go for. "Ultra-realism" is something I'm not too fond of. I don't need 10 layers of shading too to enjoy a pic.

As for Phantom turned into a sex icon, well I still keep him in check and give him other fun activies to do other than turn him into a sex trophy, a condom if you will (something that gets you close to the sex without it actually happening).

Also, the most I ever spent on a commission is a single-char pic for $125...the picture is good but I don't think it was worth that much money. Usually I like pics within the $30-60 range the most.

It's sad how true this is.

one of many reasons why I don't bother defending the fandom. What's the point in hiding how garbage it is?

I defend the parts of it worth defending. The topic in question obviously isn't one of them. :B

haha, true that

The worst is this YCH auction I saw, he was asking $100 as a starting big and it needed $200 just to add simple shit that honestly should have been added in the first place.

For us it might seem crazy, but someone did pay the price and how that guy is $200 richer.

I mostly hate the fact that he was asking for at least $100 more just to add basic stuff like another "tier" for more money was to change the facial expressions

Yeah, I also see that crap everywhere. Once again though, prices will always be that high so long as there are people high enough to pay them.

Personally, I will only purchase "porn" from an artist if it has some sort of personal meaning, like something with my own boyfriend/girlfriend. However, I do support people buying said art en-masse. It is what keeps the furry fandom going Camper, the artists that get this money most likely will spend this at other artists, crafters, suit makers, etc or even donate. However, I do acknowledge douche bags that DON'T deserve their attention and need to get over themselves.

But think about it, we are a fandom that is heavily predominantly male, from the ages of 18-23, so of course sexualized art will be a big part of the fandom's sub-culture. I see this as a mere opportunity cost to the fact that though this happens frequently and doesn't look good on the fandom, it does power the fandom's internal economy (most of the time).

And on overpricing, I can wholeheartedly agree with you, shit is too expensive. People like and all at least have some cheaper prices because they understand that porn-or not, people don't have that much money to spend on something they can do in a couple hours.

As any other fandom, there will be douche bags who think they're king-shit, and there will be some stupid people who don't know how supply and demand works, that's capitalism :)

Oddly enough, my general audience pieces have a higher popularity, both at first and in the long run. Also, I wouldn't quite consider my few other pic to be quite porn-like.

These are the reasons why my art here is underrated. Its like they expect me to draw and upload porn because its FA. Personally I like dA more than FA because not everyone there is sex drived, yeah I know there's a lot of annoying people on dA but that's easy to avoid for me.

People Like you; I respect.

How many Sonic OCs do you draw for dA kiddies?

Lol good one

it's also because, no offense, but you aren't the best artist out there. Same thing for me too, which is why I never complain when no one pays attention to what I post up. I'm more talking about those people who are blatantly overrated, like  redrusker

I'm not saying I'm the best, I honestly don't think I'm all that good at all. I'm not just speaking for me but also other's artwork that are underrated. For you example, you have good artwork but the amount of people who view it is rather weird, personally I think they should have a little more views, not a whole lot, just a little.

I could care less how many views I get but that doesn't mean my stuff isnt underrated .

It's not just porn vs not. Some artists generate fake exclusivity.

I remember one auctioned off something along the lines of 'my only commission ever' on furbid or something. He was an okay artist, but not worth the $800 he got. One year later, he's taking regular commissions. Fucking nuts.

I hate adoptables too, the concept is just asinine. YCHs range from reasonable to just retarded.

Then you get the 'professional artists get paid a lot better' line and what most furry artists don't realize is they set none of the deadlines the pros do. Hobby dedication deserves hobby pay, not pro pay.

Basically, nobody in furry knows how much this art should cost, especially the people who make it.

Most I ever paid in one go was $180 for three graphites from Moodyferret of my then cat and two dogs. Best $180 bucks I ever spent.

I've actually never seen that sorta thing before, though I've seen plenty of YCH here. What's funny about sexual YCh pictures is that you are limited by the imagination of the artist. You have no choice in what you get, just a 200 dollar bill for a picture in which the artist merely colored in and added some details to resemble your character. In the end of the day, what did you really accomplish? You can only jerk it to your sparkle dog so many times before you need a new picture.

Very true. Most artists on FA are by no means professional, yet they charge the same price as if they were one. And as you said, most don't set any deadlines. There was one picture which I decided to commission with some other guy on FA for my own amusement, but chose to cancel 2 months later when no progress was made on it. What was funny about this artist was that her usual going price is $80 or more. You think for that kinda price you'd get your picture sooner rather than whenever.

You have to take into account that most people in the fandom haven't even graduated from high school yet... or they're in college... whatever... and it's all a popularity contest there, so of course it would be a popularity contest here as well. An expensive and unfulfilling popularity contest at that. But it's hard for me to say if I wasn't a talented or semi gifted artist that at I wouldn't bank off these easy to please herds of children.

Alongside that, you have to figure that most of these kids have no lives outside the fandom. Between that and wanting to gain recognition and notoriety among their "peers", it's makes sense that most of them would act like the popular fags from elementary and high school.

If I was* lol

LOL. I dont understand it man. thats how got so "popular" he aint even trying.

Yeah, popular little faggot isn't he?

Furries tend to be dick/vagina obsessed and I see all manner of ways of rationalizing it above us. While porn isn't bad in all scenarios it's fucking pathetic how more than half of the time it's the focus of the large majority of the furry fandom. I have more than once considered leaving the fandom altogether simply because of how ever-pervasive it is, on top of the fact that with my SFW button on I'm still forced to see the creepy shit that baby/diaper furs upload.

200 bucks for a commission? Fml. While I understand that someone can be a prized member of the furry cock-drawing community, their time and skills aren't worth more than the average $30-50 commissions that clean artists do. I could tag on any number of furry porn artists right here, but for the sake of time I'll skip that part.

Fuckin' Wacky. You're making me want to leave the fandom again.

I still find it strange how sexually driven the fandom as a whole is. I think that has more to do with how "open and accepting" it is, which gives people the freedom and confidence to make total asses of themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should be an arbitrary drop in price of all artists on FA. The price reflects the demand, and the demand here is teeming mass of 'sheeple' who will pay any price to see some doggie dick.

It's a gift, always happy to spread my disgruntlement with you all <3

Porn is what really bothers me about this fandom. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing a good cock as much as the next fag, but this damned fandom takes it to the extreme and has shown me things I never wanted to see.

It is a fact that good smut gets far more attention than good technique and subject matter and to me, that's very sad. There are so many good artists that get overlooked because they refuse to cater to the dig-a-ling-obsessed crowd. It's even sadder, because these artists typically provide a variety of subject matter and species, where-as great porno artists like "blotchlink: repeatedly draw doggies and doggy dicks. There is only so much I want to see of doggies and doggy dicks, and I would love to see some variety from the two that make up that account. It gets old insanely fast. Sadly though, that's what sells and I do just do not understand the appeal. What is the appeal with canines and what is the appeal with knotted cocks? Any fag dumb enough to take a dog dick up the ass is likely to never repeat the act. This fetish, imo, is fucking retarded.

Porn sells in this fandom and it's why so many artists are willing to cater to that crowd. The most popular furs are the ones who commission all the best porn and the artists know this, thus, they can charge their ridiculous prices. This fandom revolves around popularity, furries seeming to get a kick out being pretend porn-stars. What I do not understand, is why do furs want to be porn-stars? Do they really believe it to be that glamorous? I do not for a second believe that most furs are porn-star quality in real life. Most of the foxes I know, are hippos in reality, and are awkward as fuck to boot. Perhaps their sexual fursonas are to make up for what they lack in reality, an alter ego that is perfect. Personally, I would find that depressing.

I wish I had an answer as to why furs are so sex-crazed. Perhaps it's an age thing. I also really do not understand YCH auctions. Why the fuck would anyone want to be drawn sexually with another random fur? Fuck no! I don't want to fuck some random fur, nor do I want to be fucked by some random fur. Who wants that? Who dreams of that? It makes me sick, because it almost makes this random sexual behavior seem normal, cool and acceptable. And this, ladies and gentleman, are how STDs are spread. To me, there is nothing appealing about fucking every fur in sight, but this seems to be the dream of so many furs. It's disgusting.

I guess if you are commissioning porn because you enjoy it, that's one thing and okay, but if you're doing it to boost your social status, well, imo, that's retarded.

Even if you're the most popular of the furs, you're only the most popular person in a group of obese social outcasts, sexual deviants, nerds and retards. Whoopee!

Well said, especially the pornstar quote. It's also why I can't imagine attractive or famous people being furries because why do they need to pretend to be someone else when their real selves are so incredible?

I think porn begets more porn, a downward spiral if you will. A few commissioners ask for porn, they get it. Then watchers want some of their own. Then artists start drawing mainly porn because it's what sells, convincing even more people to buy porn. It never ends.

I could just cut and run from the fandom and watch it burn. But I read a quote from Daryl Davis, famous black musician who befriended many KKK/Neo-Nazis (and even convinced some to part from their racist ways), said and I paraphrase, "Invite your enemy to talk...some small thing you say might give them food for thought." I'm a fox, I'm normal weight, and I have a Master's degree and am overly hygienic. If the slobs don't relate with me, then who else will they talk to? Other slobs, and nothing has changed. Sigh...

Also some other quote from some guy, "Some people are just not going to be what you wish they'd be, and if you can accept that you can still have some alright friendships with them." Might help a little.

I am not so sure about the celebrities not being furries thing. Celebrities can be rather nutty and often they do have alter egos used to portray the image they want to portray. Examples, Charlie Sheen thinks he's a fucking warlock and many rappers only pretend to be gangstas. Hell, Rick Ross, whom raps about drug dealing, hustling, etc. etc., was a former corrections officer with absolutely no street cred. There are also many plenty of horror actors whom rape, murder and terrorize in film, that though they would never act that way in reality, they only play these parts when working in film, refusing to work on non-horror types of projects.

I do think there are plenty of furs that really do get into their characters, hence fursuits, role-playing and character back-stories. In these cases, the furry-self can become more than just an artistic piece and becomes an extension of the player.

Honestly man, couldn't have said it better myself. You are awesome.

Thanks, man. I totally agree with the part you put in about buying a house, which is where my savings is going.

Sorry furs, but a house > porn. You can buy a house, rent out rooms to furs and then make income for porn. It's a much better investment.

Reading this entire conversation really sets the view to focus. Glad I took the time to read everything. And all true. Many of these relate to why I wouldn't go to any of the local fur meets here in AZ. because of these socially awkward and some just plain stupid kids coming out of the woodwork. Grown men acting like 7 year olds. And all working their way through hookah pipes in ihop parking lots made it a no-go for me. After the last month I've gained a new look towards the majority of the people who weren't living an actual life outside these here electronic boxes and realize they have no other life outside their furry reality. And lots of plain jane loosers. There are some seriously sad excuses of people here. And I had no desire to get anywhere close to them. I was expecting to atleased have a group of normal people but hell no I get friend requests left and right from some random guys I've never met in person emediatly sending virtual animal expressions, noises and hugs in the form of text, if they were looking to role play or be serious I didn't have a clue but nonetheless it was odd. And at times uncomfortable ...and literally had me trembling away from the AZ furs group...if that's what they sent virtually, over Facebook what was I to experience at the actual fur meet? I now see why a lot of the more popular furries don't even attend these events and only the large fursuiting conventions or there own get togethers...they could get mobbed or even abbused by some of these social outcasts. Because they view them as celebrities to the furry world.

I agree with you full heartedly. It's rather amazing the kind of social outcasts many of these meets tend to drag up. Remarkably for me, I've had better luck at finding people who weren't totally retarded or insane, but it is breathtaking how low many of these people will stoop. You feel a mix of pity and embarrassment for them...then for yourself for associating with people like them.

God..yea. I really did try to make it to one of these meets but... exactly that fact...I really would have been embarrassed and I knew I would get there and regret every second spent. I did meet one or two people who really werent any different than normal, maybe they used some furry lingo but they still lent mostly normal lives and had other hobbies. They were just still that lone 10%. I think the groups for furries sharing real life hobbies helps bring the normal together, such as Gearheadfurs, NRA, military, mountain biking, camping etc. There's always sensible arguments and discussion within these groups...this fandom needs more of that.

Indeed. And then on the other hand, you have groups like the gayfurs where it seems like the craziest sects of the fandom seem to congregate.