FA+
Shop
My opinions on convention size and caps and all that
12 years ago
In twitter a few of us were discussing if cons should cap or not and does it hurt a con? Also on the discussion table are cons held in convention centers.
So here goes, my opinion and observations =
Furry Cons are growing. We now have:
L1 - Smaller cons or Local cons that are smaller, maybe under 1k people yet still some travel to it. Examples I have attended but not limited to would be ICF, Megaplex. LVL 1 cons are distinctly larger than 'Meet's and are actually run and organized by a board (group), have a flavor of legal incorporated status, etc.
These cons are really fun. They generally have the money to bring in interesting named guests, have the larger draw events such as dances and DJ spots and they don't try to have EVERYTHING every con has until they grow. They do what they can manage and give the con attendee the best experience.
What draws people to L1 cons? Individual reason vary so I'll just list mine:
Easy or close to drive to (Though you see some flying in!)
Friends are going - Biggest reason!! These cons offer small scale con activities and lots and lots of ability to find friends and spend time with them. To some, this means a chance to get a cheap hotel room and a getaway for a long weekend with friends. It's fine to have a 'Room Con' but remember to buy that con membership to support the group that made it possible even if you never put one paw in con space.
Cool unique features / activities - Examples: IFC has Snerf Wars, Megaplex has the PPS on Sunday live.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. These are fun little cons that are growing and really give you back what you put in. Definitely worth going to! Here is where you meet Senior Con staff from larger cons out to have a good time and not have to work! Buy them a drink!
L2 - Cons with attendance anywhere from 1000 - on and the con space is contained basically in one hotel. Examples would be - FCN (closed), Midwest Furfest. These cons are at the level of attendance and size where they dominate or outright own the hotel they are held in may have overflow hotels but most importantly, all con space is contained in one main hotel.
These cons can range from drawing locals and be a destination con where fans from around the world will fly in for them! These cons will have activities ranging from panels to Dances and DJ's as well as Dance competitions. They may have Media or fan based guests.
These cons tend to be great spots to see all your attending friends and attend larger dances and activities.
Personally I love the L! and L2 cons. They really give me value for my time and money and what I expect and hope for in a con.
L3 - Or as I call them, MEGA CONS!
This category deals really with 2 cons so far in the fandom who use convention centers. These are AC and FC. These cons are large and have just about anything a con may offer as an activity. They span several hotels and have guests that you may or may not have heard of from the fandom or some media guest. Personally these cons rarely have a guest I heard of but that's me and guests never help me decide to attend. OK I went to IFC because of Twitch last year and I liked it but IFC is not a Mega Con.
FC has the advantage of both hotels attached, although the Hilton is a little walk to con spaces because while the con can fill 2 hotels, it cannot fill the convention center spaces so outside activities like Girl's volleyball can cause stresses and disruptions for furry con goers. This is simply beyond FC control.
Regardless It's spread out and not easy to find friends. It does have nice common areas in some spaces where people gather. FC uses FLARE for security. In my own opinion based on talking to them, they seem to do a great job and I have yet to hear of a complaint.
Props to the staff and people who love the con. it was my #1 con until the convention center.
Loved it, like it now, not enough to pay to fly and put up with flying to go.
AC. AC is without doubt the largest furry con. It's in a large convention center but does not fill it. Considering it fills so many hotels I have to wonder what kind of con fills the convention center and doesn't overfill the hotels, it seems oversized.
As for my con experience, I have heard something that reflects my own experiences when you go to see friends - I never saw X! I saw X once but never found them again! The con is huge! If you don't get into the Westin, you have the Bataan death march to and from your hotel in the heat of day or the darkness of night. If you like an adult beverage, there is no popping up to the room for a beer and going back down easily. You either have to deal with a long walk or the long Westin lines for the elevator. At least now they mix fursuiters and non fursuiters.
Time to eat? hey everyone wants to eat! 5k+ people want to eat! not enough places to eat. Leave at 6, get back by 9 or 10 after you get somewhere, wait and eat. Meh! Furnandos? IN MY OPINION the food is umm.. not good.
So if you have a Westin room you still have long walks to convention spaces. It's too spread out for me. yes, I've gone in the past (I did take a few years off) and yes I loved the dances (Taking video) but for me, being a mere 2 hours drive it's still a hassle. Parking is about 100.00 for my stay! Park somewhere free nearby? Sure! Risk a car break in! That deductable is more than 100! Ok so maybe it's the cost of doing business? Well not for me anymore, I'm skipping AC. I may drive out, see local Pitt friends and hang out an evening to see some friends from far away but the con itself offers me nothing.
Con Security - I'm a Big fan of using the con staff not a 3rd party. To Me (I said TO ME) Dorsai are a turn off. Yes, even I have had a bad experience on a few occasions ( I won't get into specifics but it was obvious power and ego) with them and hearing they are at a con is a huge turn off to me. IFC uses them but the ones at IFC seemed relaxed and fun to interact with. Time will tell if the ones who had a house dropped on their sister will attend when the con grows. At that point I'll reevaluate if I want to bother.
Little on me and cons -
I'm somewhere in my 140's I think for cons. This includes my background of Star Trek cons and general Sci Fi cons. Furry cons are viewed by me as gathering spots for friends. Rarely is there programming or guests that draw me in. One FC had Larry Niven and 25 (yes 25!) non furry friends came to see him for that con. What happened? At EVERY MEET THE GUEST OPPORTUNITY someone on con staff monopolized the conversation. It sucked. Oh well.
Like I said though rarely does a con have a guest I care about. Or programming. It's all about the people. I like to shoot video. I like to show people and cons in a good light. I like to give suiters a chance to see how they look and act and appreciate them when they are active and put effort into their character. I get better opportunities at L1 and L2 cons.
This is all about how I see it. You may see it differently. The important thing is: Do what you want! It's your con, it's your money! I only express my own opinions and experiences. I do have a very well defined expectation of a con, I know what I want to get out of it and I go where I get that.
Lastly - As for capping attendance: i would rather see this than a convention center con. It WILL make some drama it WILL make some people show and ghost and make it room-con for some but hey, seeing friends in common areas where you don't need a badge is a lot of the con experience anyway.
-X
TL:DR - Pet me, feed me. yip yip yip
So here goes, my opinion and observations =
Furry Cons are growing. We now have:
L1 - Smaller cons or Local cons that are smaller, maybe under 1k people yet still some travel to it. Examples I have attended but not limited to would be ICF, Megaplex. LVL 1 cons are distinctly larger than 'Meet's and are actually run and organized by a board (group), have a flavor of legal incorporated status, etc.
These cons are really fun. They generally have the money to bring in interesting named guests, have the larger draw events such as dances and DJ spots and they don't try to have EVERYTHING every con has until they grow. They do what they can manage and give the con attendee the best experience.
What draws people to L1 cons? Individual reason vary so I'll just list mine:
Easy or close to drive to (Though you see some flying in!)
Friends are going - Biggest reason!! These cons offer small scale con activities and lots and lots of ability to find friends and spend time with them. To some, this means a chance to get a cheap hotel room and a getaway for a long weekend with friends. It's fine to have a 'Room Con' but remember to buy that con membership to support the group that made it possible even if you never put one paw in con space.
Cool unique features / activities - Examples: IFC has Snerf Wars, Megaplex has the PPS on Sunday live.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. These are fun little cons that are growing and really give you back what you put in. Definitely worth going to! Here is where you meet Senior Con staff from larger cons out to have a good time and not have to work! Buy them a drink!
L2 - Cons with attendance anywhere from 1000 - on and the con space is contained basically in one hotel. Examples would be - FCN (closed), Midwest Furfest. These cons are at the level of attendance and size where they dominate or outright own the hotel they are held in may have overflow hotels but most importantly, all con space is contained in one main hotel.
These cons can range from drawing locals and be a destination con where fans from around the world will fly in for them! These cons will have activities ranging from panels to Dances and DJ's as well as Dance competitions. They may have Media or fan based guests.
These cons tend to be great spots to see all your attending friends and attend larger dances and activities.
Personally I love the L! and L2 cons. They really give me value for my time and money and what I expect and hope for in a con.
L3 - Or as I call them, MEGA CONS!
This category deals really with 2 cons so far in the fandom who use convention centers. These are AC and FC. These cons are large and have just about anything a con may offer as an activity. They span several hotels and have guests that you may or may not have heard of from the fandom or some media guest. Personally these cons rarely have a guest I heard of but that's me and guests never help me decide to attend. OK I went to IFC because of Twitch last year and I liked it but IFC is not a Mega Con.
FC has the advantage of both hotels attached, although the Hilton is a little walk to con spaces because while the con can fill 2 hotels, it cannot fill the convention center spaces so outside activities like Girl's volleyball can cause stresses and disruptions for furry con goers. This is simply beyond FC control.
Regardless It's spread out and not easy to find friends. It does have nice common areas in some spaces where people gather. FC uses FLARE for security. In my own opinion based on talking to them, they seem to do a great job and I have yet to hear of a complaint.
Props to the staff and people who love the con. it was my #1 con until the convention center.
Loved it, like it now, not enough to pay to fly and put up with flying to go.
AC. AC is without doubt the largest furry con. It's in a large convention center but does not fill it. Considering it fills so many hotels I have to wonder what kind of con fills the convention center and doesn't overfill the hotels, it seems oversized.
As for my con experience, I have heard something that reflects my own experiences when you go to see friends - I never saw X! I saw X once but never found them again! The con is huge! If you don't get into the Westin, you have the Bataan death march to and from your hotel in the heat of day or the darkness of night. If you like an adult beverage, there is no popping up to the room for a beer and going back down easily. You either have to deal with a long walk or the long Westin lines for the elevator. At least now they mix fursuiters and non fursuiters.
Time to eat? hey everyone wants to eat! 5k+ people want to eat! not enough places to eat. Leave at 6, get back by 9 or 10 after you get somewhere, wait and eat. Meh! Furnandos? IN MY OPINION the food is umm.. not good.
So if you have a Westin room you still have long walks to convention spaces. It's too spread out for me. yes, I've gone in the past (I did take a few years off) and yes I loved the dances (Taking video) but for me, being a mere 2 hours drive it's still a hassle. Parking is about 100.00 for my stay! Park somewhere free nearby? Sure! Risk a car break in! That deductable is more than 100! Ok so maybe it's the cost of doing business? Well not for me anymore, I'm skipping AC. I may drive out, see local Pitt friends and hang out an evening to see some friends from far away but the con itself offers me nothing.
Con Security - I'm a Big fan of using the con staff not a 3rd party. To Me (I said TO ME) Dorsai are a turn off. Yes, even I have had a bad experience on a few occasions ( I won't get into specifics but it was obvious power and ego) with them and hearing they are at a con is a huge turn off to me. IFC uses them but the ones at IFC seemed relaxed and fun to interact with. Time will tell if the ones who had a house dropped on their sister will attend when the con grows. At that point I'll reevaluate if I want to bother.
Little on me and cons -
I'm somewhere in my 140's I think for cons. This includes my background of Star Trek cons and general Sci Fi cons. Furry cons are viewed by me as gathering spots for friends. Rarely is there programming or guests that draw me in. One FC had Larry Niven and 25 (yes 25!) non furry friends came to see him for that con. What happened? At EVERY MEET THE GUEST OPPORTUNITY someone on con staff monopolized the conversation. It sucked. Oh well.
Like I said though rarely does a con have a guest I care about. Or programming. It's all about the people. I like to shoot video. I like to show people and cons in a good light. I like to give suiters a chance to see how they look and act and appreciate them when they are active and put effort into their character. I get better opportunities at L1 and L2 cons.
This is all about how I see it. You may see it differently. The important thing is: Do what you want! It's your con, it's your money! I only express my own opinions and experiences. I do have a very well defined expectation of a con, I know what I want to get out of it and I go where I get that.
Lastly - As for capping attendance: i would rather see this than a convention center con. It WILL make some drama it WILL make some people show and ghost and make it room-con for some but hey, seeing friends in common areas where you don't need a badge is a lot of the con experience anyway.
-X
TL:DR - Pet me, feed me. yip yip yip
Convention Growth is the Catch-22 of running a convention, and it has driven generation of chairmen crazy. If you run your convention well, the word will spread, and since the fandom is also growing, so will your con. That's a great thing, in general. If people want to attend your gig, you know you're doing it right. However ... you will also become the victim of your own success. When your convention grows, it will change, and there is nothing you can do to turn back the clock and make it the little campfire gathering it used to be 10 years ago.
Is capping a solution? The reason why people go to cons is that everyone else goes. If you try to artificially limit the attendance of a con, you end up with the uncomfortable task of somehow deciding who makes the cut. And no matter how clever you design the selection criteria, you will not be able to avoid destroying social networks.
If you can't find your friends at a big convention, that's regrettable, but with a little initiative, that problem can be solved. The furry fandom is probably the first native internet fandom. We know how to stay in touch. Twitter, for example, is the perfect tool to stay in touch with friends at big conventions.
So, at a big convention, meeting can take some extra work, but once you got the word out that you're gonna have a shelf of booze and free waffles in room 2460, that party's still gonna rock. Now, if the attendance was capped, and your best friends can't make it because they lost in the registration lottery, they are out - you might end up at a convention that still has the same physical size it used to have, but your party is ruined. There's no chance you'll meet them at the con. You might end up being more socially isolated than at the big, uncapped convention.
Believe me, I'm not pulling this out of my ass. (For those who don't know me: I'm chairman of Eurofurence). We currently have to attendee limit, but we had one briefly for two years due to space limitations. It was bearable as long as demand was only slighly above supply. But in the last year at the Ringberg we literally sold out within 15 minutes, and over 30% of all registrations remained on the waiting list. People were seriously frustrated, and a lot of friend groups were torn apart because of this. When we decided to switch to a bigger venue, everyone was sad to leave the Ringberg hotel, but it also was like we could breathe again. It changed the face of the con forever, but people could now finally meet their friends again, and I think it was the right thing to do.
BTW I know you, you know me. Maybe you haven't connected the name to me? :3
You guys running stuff are much appreciated. I just can only say for me, I like smaller cons. However I really want to go to EF and CFZ. Cons are parties to me and I love them. There's only 2 I try to avoid. I say try because friends keep drawing me back.
AC is only a 2 hour drive. Likely I'll ghost and hang out at Tonic at night from a friend's nearby house to see you guys.
By no means do I mean to belittle the efforts of the people who put on the con.
In the case of FC, that seems like it's the case at least. Of course, I'm not the 'congoing-expert that you are, hun. ^_^
So if THAT'S the only reason for needing a bigger space, that's kinda silly...
Like you I love the L1 and L2, but to each their own. Some are willing to accept the massive travel costs, time, and trouble to go to a mega convention and all the more power to them. Life is about choice and this is no different.
I seriously love FC, and it was also my first convention. However I found that the smaller conventions are just as fun and far more accessible.
To answer your question regarding "what kind of con fills the convention center and doesn't overfill the hotels" with regard to AC in Pittsburgh, keep in mind that the DLCC caters to many large 'day events' whereby people may attend en mass, but are generally not staying at an adjacent hotel for the entire weekend duration as happens with AnthroCon. This is one of the reasons that AC in particular has the hotel difficulties it does - it just honestly isn't a venue well-suited to the kind of growth AC has seen in recent years and hence for the abundance of overflow hotels necessary.
(Contrast this with many other conventions centers that are far better equipped for housing a massive number of attendants for longer-duration events, such as the Detroit RenCen or the Columbus Convention Center)