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Do you want to keep my prices down? PLEASE HELP
11 years ago
“And it is still true, no matter how old you are -- when you go out into the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.”
Hi guys. Ive got a bit of a problem, and for once i'm gonna ask people here to help me out.
I need you to sign a petition for me....if thats okay...please.
https://www.change.org/p/vince-cabl.....gital-products
You see the European Union is aboout to bring into effect a new piece of legislation that they've been keeping really really quiet which basically means that any digital goods I sell within the UK and europe will suddenly no long be exempt from VAT. This is a huuuuge headache because it means I will need to fill in lots of forms and suddenly need to keep uptodate records of every person I sell to in europe and the uk for 10 years. It will also mean I will have to bump my prices up by 20% in order to recoup the VAT. Thats a hefty bump in prices that I just really dont want to do. I will most likely need to employ a proper accountant in order to work out all the various admin things that I have no clue about which will also kinda kill most of my earnings here and well....its that or I will no longer be able to sell digital goods to anyone in the UK or in europe. Which would make me pretty sad. Its just all crazy.
This explains it better than I can http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/.....cro-firms.html
I find it shocking that its been kept so quiet and well....if people can spread the word (particularly if you're in the uk and europe) then we need to seriously sort this out.
Thank you for your time and sorry this is such a boring post.
I hope everyone has had a lovely thanksgiving.
Also im reposting this because im watching this acocunt through my other account
and it seems some of the submissions and journals im posting arent being seen in my submission and journal inbox over on my other account. this is quite confusing and a little bit worrying so im watching myself to monitor when that happens.
I need you to sign a petition for me....if thats okay...please.
https://www.change.org/p/vince-cabl.....gital-products
You see the European Union is aboout to bring into effect a new piece of legislation that they've been keeping really really quiet which basically means that any digital goods I sell within the UK and europe will suddenly no long be exempt from VAT. This is a huuuuge headache because it means I will need to fill in lots of forms and suddenly need to keep uptodate records of every person I sell to in europe and the uk for 10 years. It will also mean I will have to bump my prices up by 20% in order to recoup the VAT. Thats a hefty bump in prices that I just really dont want to do. I will most likely need to employ a proper accountant in order to work out all the various admin things that I have no clue about which will also kinda kill most of my earnings here and well....its that or I will no longer be able to sell digital goods to anyone in the UK or in europe. Which would make me pretty sad. Its just all crazy.
This explains it better than I can http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/.....cro-firms.html
I find it shocking that its been kept so quiet and well....if people can spread the word (particularly if you're in the uk and europe) then we need to seriously sort this out.
Thank you for your time and sorry this is such a boring post.
I hope everyone has had a lovely thanksgiving.
Also im reposting this because im watching this acocunt through my other account
and it seems some of the submissions and journals im posting arent being seen in my submission and journal inbox over on my other account. this is quite confusing and a little bit worrying so im watching myself to monitor when that happens. 
Unclear though, does this affect those who sell digital products in the rest of Europe too, or only you guys in the UK?
Nevermind me though, the important thing is I signed this petition and hopefully it will mean something.
"On Tuesday, HMRC conceded that while micro companies are still obliged to register for VAT in the UK to use MOSS, they will no longer be forced to charge UK VAT on their domestic sales."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/.....MOSS-rule.html
Technically, we should be declaring the income to HMRC so they can charge income tax on it. I wonder if I'm the only one who actually does this. XD
Although it should technically be declared, if you're only earning small amounts I doubt they are going to come chasing you...but the thing is, they CAN. And maybe they do come chasing some times, and not declaring just means you're playing the odds. And really...considering the power they have to royally screw you, is it really worth the risk, considering all you need to do if you already have a main job and the extra earned amount is under £2,000 (IIRC) is to make one phone call to them in April to declare the extra amount for them to adjust your tax code to cover it?
If you're earning substantial amounts (and congratulations, btw, BabyStar! £600 to £1,000 a month is fantastic!) then they're definitely going to be paying attention!
To be blunt (and a bit rude, sorry), you really should have that knowledge at age 18...because you're going to need to know that stuff very soon. It'd be good if you could poke teachers/parents/whoever to give you some info and guidance now, so you'd be thankful for it later.
when most Americans only make 1200 usd a month(in my neck of the woods)
It was my perception that the reason this petition was so important was because this law passing would add an un-necessary amount of extra work to filing for taxes. Thus I thought it would make the process of doing commissions much more haphazard for artists in the UK; I thought this might serve as a deterrent for digital artists in the UK and I thus was opposed to it. My original point, while a bit exaggerated, was that I didn't believe you should have to be a bloody accountant to be able to do digital art commissions. I thought this might be especially hard on minors who just want to make some extra pocket change off commissions her and there.
If it is not the overly complicated nature of this law being passed that is the main problem, then it seems I have missed the point. I was trying to be supportive Star, I'm sorry.
The fact of life is, though, that there is a reason that accountants exist: because doing any kind of business unavoidably involves dealing with tax.
As for pocket change, though: in the UK, you have to earn over a certain threshold in a year (it's something like £10k) before you start paying any income tax. So no, teenagers with a paper round, and artists like you aren't getting hit with this inconvenience. How it works in other countries, I can't say.
Of course there's a reason we have accountants, I don't think I implied otherwise dude.
Well that's good. My concern was that this VAT thing would create complications for people who are not prepared deal with those complications.
IT is the ONLY country paypal does this for yet every country on the planet considers recipt of income from "digital transactions" a form of self employment.
Every other country that suddenly cracks down leaves it to the merchant's responsibility.
Its the same here with the GST/HST issue. Every canadian artist should be collecting 8%-15% on every commission as a tax (think its only 8% as its a "service" not a good, but it depends on what province) and then you turn that collection over to the govermnent for a proper rebate. (or you eat it in taxes).
If you file as "self-employed" then you are pretty much mandated to register for a GST number to CCRA and follow through with your year end reports about the numbers and types of transations (you have no "tangible good" so you just follow with the GST portion to all of your commissions, without bothering to determine province of origin as proving a "physical location" is unenforceable).
most people choose to take the 8-15% hit on their year end taxes rather then go through with the online taxes issue (sans bigger companies) as CCRA has chosen that it is not worth it unless you make alot of sales or you actually deal in "tangible" items.
https://www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping/overview
Looking at the total list, and trimming out the parts that probably aren't relevant to what we do (assuming we don't generally buy supplies and materials for digital art), it looks like we'd need to record the following:
copies of all invoices you issue (so, basically just recording our commissions...which I imagine most of us do anyway).
your total VAT sales
the VAT you owe HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)
the VAT you can reclaim from HMRC
the VAT on any EU acquisitions (purchases) or dispatches (sales)
Also: "There aren’t any rules on what a VAT account should look like". So I take that to mean a simple spreadsheet log will do. Or even just jotting down in a notebook.
Obviously, this is just the current rules, and not what the new ones would be. But if the new ones are similar, then hopefully for us at worst it's just a bit of an extra chore. Stay strong, lil cubby! If the worst happens and this change ends up happening, then we'll all figure out how to deal with it together. Someone will very likely write a nice and simple how-to guide that we can follow.
Well...you sell via Furaffinity and Paypal rather than via your own site, right? Perhaps the rules won't apply to you? Fingers crossed, maybe?
But fingers crossed they'll backpedal a bit more and exempt small businesses. :)
IP adressing, Country Code SIM cards (ovibously a political move about the "mobile payment" system), phone numbers, and addresses is a copyright liscencing criteria (alongside an inventory control number - for the creator to document the work they provide) are impossible indicators without even opening up the whole "Intellectual property" idea. Plus VAT has never been collected for exports out of the EU anyways (I just purchased some things from the UK and wasn't charged VAT). This reeks of big media.
So extending it to everyone and everything is either poor wording or mistargeted regulations and abuse of Sales Tax.
I suspect it will likely go away or be reduced to an "online sales tax" because like has been said alot of UK regulations try to do too much with too little And good intentions can cause alot of problems when triing to actually carry them out. Plus the "no mimima thing" is exactly what it sounds like a copyright control that is going to fall flat on its face because of the "stupidty" that the UK is dealing with inside of its copyright lobby.
Id call it a copyright tax on small transactions but Its not quite there yet.
Ill say it again though, setting no "minima" on a specific "creative service" with those kinds of materials is akin to a "copyright tax". Especially if you have to start collecting info that may violate EU privacy regulations for "copyright controls".
It is very sneaky and underhanded by big media (at best), or just poorly worded regulation (or understanding of the EU system) at worst.
Beyond my own understanding of how Canada deals with Sales Taxes here (which VAT is similar to) I think its one of those "they tell you not you tell them when to apply for a 'HST number') but i would start keeping track of your "creative production" numbers (assigning a unique ID to every commission you draw for example).
I think your other solutions may work too, as alot of these "copyright rules" are almost invalidated with "digitally based works" and is slowly working to force everyone to go back to physical media, and kill digital use outright. So it penalizes them in very corrupt and stupid ways.
Itll be interesting to see what other "larger" services do from the UK and where the "big money goes"
I signed it
Less competition for the corporate mongers that line the politicians' pockets ontop of the extra taxes that can be skimmed. Its not just a US thing.
I did find this, http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/.....professionals/
But im not sure how helpful it is.
I guess my main work around would be to print and send any artwork I make in the EU and then give them a digital copy of the artwork for free or just stop selling in the UK and europe, most of my customers are American anyway.
particularly this part "Webb very clearly clarified that this is not the case, any file sent via the internet that a customer has paid for constitutes a digital service including files that are manually emailed. "
So thats what I do
As I have a part time job that earns over 10,000 pounds a year I am already above the minimum earnings threshhold for income tax so I MUST declare other income (especially as its quite a substantial amount) So sadly its got nothing to do with the kindness of my heart its actually law and if you get caught avoiding tax then you can easily go to prison which would be kinda sucky
With contradictory and complicated rules favouring action beyond intent its likely you would never be charged anyways.
But again that is over here, not in the UK where the kind of work you do may be "morally offensive" (criminally) as it is.
I just think the curent UK government is just being silly with overbearing and broadly worded legislation that can do stupid things ^^;
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/
The "small buisness lobby" would call this a copyright tax in every other word and be ready to start throwing their tea into Boston Harbour because that is exactly what it is. It would more then likely not survive a federal court challenge on 1st Ammendment challenges. (and 13th if i remember about "taxation without representation") and be repealed within 6 months.
the UK combines "export controls" "sales tax" and "duties" into one single program called the VAT for "efficiency" but it can lead to an easy way to add more taxes to things if worded like this "junk regulation".
Sadly though in the UK (unlike Canada and US) the courts do not have the kind of power that they do over here. Though the government has been known to ignore and pretend "regulations don't exist" until they are "necessary" (being subjective by the crown or other government representative)
This isn't the first time though that "Cross Atlantic Laws" have reared their ugly heads. Won't be the last.
And no one will even wanna bother buying digital art because of the information that would have to be collected.
(which isn't even done in other VAT categories when it comes to IP and SimCard info).
./....honestly? if worse comes to worse i guess you could always try coming to america? (we love british accents here!...okay well at least i do!)
https://www.change.org/p/pierre-mos.....d-sole-traders