The seems like a poorly thought out decision.

I've been hearing about this from several sources. If the situation doesn't improve, I suspect we're seeing the end of Rainfurrest begin.

So sorry to hear that.

Hugs

Plural, one for you and one for Drip.

Bunner

Speaking as someone who's never been to RF but knows staff there: apparently the "opening the hotel before the dealers get selected" is how things have been done for the entirety of the con's existence. This is the first time it's sold out that quickly EVER, and it caught everyone completely off-guard. Keep in mind, I'm only partially defending them: I much prefer when conventions allow us dealers to get a shot at the hotel before the HUGE RUSH of the first day they open to the public. I think, though, that the HUGE RUSH thing has built a LOT of steam in the past two or three years, and while it's not brand new, it's definitely a newer issue that needs to be dealt with.

I don't know exactly how they chose dealers, but I do know it was committee choice (not just a single person, such as the clusterfuck MFF was rumored to have pulled last year) and that it was difficult: there were 126 different people requesting 157 tables, and only 61 tables available. Please don't hold me to those numbers: I'm trying to remember what I read on RF's twitter the other day, so I might be off by one or two.

Looks like, depending on their attendance this year, it's time for them to find a bigger hotel with more facility space. And believe me, the staff know this and very much want it, from the folks I've talked to.

Here's hoping for next year!

I heard there is no good next step for RF. They are in the largest facility without going for a full Expo/convention facility and the cost/sq. footage is beyond what the con could justify even given it's current attendance levels.

I've heard that there are several hotels that have more space, but are further from the airport, and it's causing people to say they can't move EVEN THOUGH they can get a shuttle.

There's solutions, but there's also people who are stuck in their ways, and I think this situation is dealing with that.

cool. I had heard differently but I have not gone so in all honesty I have no idea. Thanks for the info though.

It is nice to walk across the street from the airport (when the elevator is working.........), but honestly if they can get a bigger hotel, then that is the obvious solution. Going to convention space makes less sense, because the dealer to attendee ratio is important to keep balanced. Too many dealers to attendees and spending money is spread thin, and many dealers are glossed over. Rainfurrest is the only con I know of that is that close to the airport. It is nice, but everyine takes busses, shuttles, taxis, public transit just fine to other cons.

Being a local, there isn't anywhere I know of that is large then that spot without going to either the Washington State Convention Center, the Mayenbeuer Center, or the Greater Tacoma Convention and Trade Center.

40000 Sq ft is kinda hard to beat for a hotel attached conference center, RF is gonna be bursting at the seems (it already is) before the con staff decides to take the risk to move to a better location. It is a big risk for them and I think from seeing alot of their decision they are very very risk adverse, basically the "We are growing slowly so why do anything different cause that might make a year of RF bad".

I heard that the organizers took a drumming last year as the Dealers Den was viewed as elitist and that only popufurs need bother trying to get a table. There was also rumblings that some new artists had their tables taken away as they were not "good enough" to have a table although they had gotten theirs through the first come first served system. I think the organizers are in a no win situation. Especially now that artists with large followings are creating journals stating they are not attending or out right boycotting the con and telling their watchers to do the same. All in all it is going to be bad for everyone. Perhaps something could be settled that would make everyone happy in the future.

I'd certainly never advocate or ask for a boycott. The only truly impartial way would be a lottery for dealers. For first-come, first served methods, that tends to penalize the uninformed or people with slow connections, and to an extent also depends on luck.

AnthroCon has a humongous dealer's room where pretty much everyone who wants one can get a table, but that also means buyer dollars are spread very thin, and I've seen some dealers there get little or no business at all.

I've been told the RainFurrest people were trying to pick dealers that are 'not the usual ones." They may end up with a dealer's room full of artists nobody is interested in or people selling stuff nobody wants. I guess we'll see.

I did not mean to imply that you were, I am sorry if it was taken that way. I just have seen other artists that have made that statement.

I think your solution is fair, unfortunately there will always be someone who will complain that it was unfair or rigged in some way. Sometimes there is just no way to please people.

I really need to get out to cons and experience them for myself. I have been to MFM 98 and that was cool but never had the means or time to get to another one. I am a volunteer with Fur-Eh and I am getting to see the planning behind a con that is only a few years in. It is an interesting experience and luckily the con has been able to keep pace with it's growth and has been able to provide space for the artists that want to go there.

thanks for your reply and thoughts, it was very informative.

When anything is assigned (even positions at the gate) “by committee“, favoritism is always suspected -- and sometimes the suspicions are correct. “A friend of a friend” and all that.

As for a lottery by chance, even that is suspect.

It’s a no-win situation pretty much any way you slice it if there isn’t enough room for everyone. Furries are not known for their cool rational approach to what they want.

Maybe get an impartial 3rd party to conduct the lottery? A company with no connection to the fandom who wouldn't give a shit who gets what table or who is a popufur or not.

I know people like to accuse furries of being overly dramatic/emotional/whatever, but I think you'd have the same reaction from any group of people in a similar situation. I've seen non-furry groups blow up and break apart over lesser things.

Yes, very much so. “Impartial” or “random” are always suspect by the majority who do not get rewarded, chosen, or win. “I didn’t get chosen, picked, or win and so it must be rigged.” One only has to consider the aftermath of any hotly-contested political election to see examples of this reaction.

Avoiding this, and perhaps increasing con attendance at the same time might be achieved by having the dealers themselves decide who gets a table and who does not through trial by combat.

Rock paper scissors!

Lizard, Spock!

*obligatory Hunger Games Reference*

Wow, that's just gross. I'm sorry, Roz :(

I live down the street and do not go. And, it seems to be getting worse, not better.

Flinters also posted about not getting into the Dealers Den this year. I've heard a few others also didn't get any table space.

I've heard and seen a lot of the situation from artist and volunteer staff sides. I really hope things get better..

I didn't get dealer space either, which is a shame because RF was one of my favorite cons. I had been unable to go for two years and finally got to go this past year. I had a great time seeing old customers and friends. It is a semi-local con to me, so my expenses are a lot less than a con I have to fly to. I definitely can't risk a 'maybe' artist's alley table, as I still need to travel from three hours away and book a hotel room. As a dealer I personally dislike Artist Alleys anyway, but that's a can of worms for another day.

This year's clusterfuck was an attempt to avoid last year's clusterfuck.

Last year dealer's tables sold out in literally about ten minutes. I was on the road and didn't get my application in until quarter past... no table for me. Because they apparently have twice as much demand as supply, they went to a juried system this year so that it wasn't a drag race of who could hit the submit button the quickest. Unfortunately, they just swapped one problem for another. I got waitlisted. Flinters was turned down outright.

Will I try again next year? Sure, what the hell. Sales at Rainfurrest have never been good, but it's so easy and cheap to go that I might as well put my name in even if I don't really care one way or the other. Will I be there this year? Nope, I'll be at Steamposium.

I guess being waitlisted means you have some vague chance of actually getting a table next year. For everyone who was turned down completely, why bother to apply again? If you're not good enough now, you're not going to be good enough next year.

Supposedly folks are supposed to hear on the 11th why they were turned down outright. Expect another influx of drama then I suppose.. As for waitlisting, it only really benefits dealers who live in the area, since you hear almost last minute if table space opened up.

If that is true, "influx of drama" is a massive understatement. What the hell are they going to say? "We turned you down because your art sucks?" "You're a known drama queen?" "You're a loser and everyone hates your work?" "You're a washed-up has-been?" "Everyone's sick of seeing you and the same shit at every convention?"

Oh yeah, that'll go over well!

Thanks! Glad you guys liked it! :) Honestly, I really liked RF because it is ( was?) run so well, I'm shocked this happened. It's true, the dealers room is quite small for a con of this size, but there are much fairer ways to go about dealer selection. Sometimes brutal honesty is really not the way to go on issues like this, judging from what
I have heard already as some people's reasons for being denied outright.

Unbelievable. Whoever had that idea must be an alien to human mind.

I mean. Why?? -Even- if the comite was absolutely impartial, there is no way to prove it, and mostly everyones mind will go down either the "friends favours" or "money down" or whatever other decision biasing action of your choice.

No. That is not a good decision and does not bode well for them.

Apart from that, sorry you could not get the table.

I know several dealers who will never attend again due to this. This is probably going to cause some regular non dealers not to go too. So yeah, this con is looking on the ropes now.

Dang, I love your stuff, and RF is my local con . Granted, I tend to not visit the dealer den a ton..

Dang, I love your stuff, and RF is my local con . Granted, I tend to not visit the dealer den a ton..

Wtf...
We put in for a table for tails and tactics and weren't even informed we weren't selexted...
How did you hear about it?

 driprat applied for the table and they told him about the rejection via email.

Saw this yesterday: Dealers Selection Process at the RainFurrest Dealers Den blog.

Following a lengthy explanation of how they tried to include dealers offering a diversity of types of merchandise, was this statement:
"We received over twice as many applications for the Dealers Den as we had available spaces in the Den. (Over 120 applicants, for just under 60 spots.) Well over half of these applications were for artists. This also meant, unfortunately, that more artists had to be waitlisted or denied than in any other category."

(P.S. I am not affiliated with RainFurrest and have no stake in how they run their Dealers Den; just thought you might find this of interest.)

What they don't seem to have grasped, is that most people go into a dealer's room for the artists. They don't go there to get socks, rare coins, shirts, CDs, hats, nick-nacks or dinnerware, they go there to get furry art. Most furry artists also sell comics, books or other things related to their art. Passing over the artists in favor of other dealers is the most asinine way to fill a furry con dealer room I've ever heard of. If they really wanted to get people that the public wants, they should hold a poll. List all the applicants, and have people vote on who they want there. Now they're going to have a dealers room full of crap nobody is interested in.

Have they (at this or any other convention) done any studies, surveys, or other analysis of what people go looking for in the Dealers Den and what they spend their money on? If they haven't, they probably should.

I can only speak for what I look at and what I buy in the Dealer's room. If there's one category of dealer I most consistently buy from, it's the publishers. Besides them, I've bought T-shirts, CDs, DVDs, leather goods, a board game, a scarf, and yes, I've bought art too. I don't expect everyone else is like me (or anyone else, for that matter) but what I've observed walking around Dealers rooms is people stopping and looking and talking to dealers who sell all sorts of merchandise. The artists get plenty of attention too, but it's not as if everyone is crowded around them while the rest of the dealers just take up space and attract little interest.