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Stop abusing Patreon you yiffers! >:(
10 years ago
This utterly defeats the purpose of patreon. Here is an real example.
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Pledge $250.00 or more per month (Limited 2 of 2 left)
Entry in each month’s raffle for one free 60 minute sketch stream piece
A copy of the .psd file for each month’s raffle prize!
Access to patron-only streams!
One 4-hour patron-only stream each month where I work on anything you want (usual will-not-draw list applies) plus you get all the .psd files from that stream! If you’re not available for the stream I will collect information ahead of time.
(Links to this real example/artist will be deleted as it's just one of the many issues of abuse and this one example is not the target)
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So you get a CHANCE to win a sketch, access to 'exclusive' streams, copies of art that is not yours and 4 hours of work. For $250?!! I can get a picture animation for that price from other talented people. Why should anyone support something like that?! Hell, 4 hours of my work just gets me $80. But this, $250?! Are you seriously saying your work time is worth $62.50 an hour?!! You'd make my bosses boss go DAMN SON.
GUYS, GUYS, Patreon is helpful to support projects, like games, movies, videos, comics and other sort of entertainment media. Such entertainment cannot exist without the aid of fund raising.
Being an artist IS NOT A PROJECT!! $62 an hour I can justify if all proceeds goes towards a specific ongoing goal. Got an amazing comic idea? What about a 4 minute long animation of yiffing? Share it! Tell us how to support your goal! Otherwise, it's abuse and for all that does this, shame on you >:(
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pledge $250.00 or more per month (Limited 2 of 2 left)
Entry in each month’s raffle for one free 60 minute sketch stream piece
A copy of the .psd file for each month’s raffle prize!
Access to patron-only streams!
One 4-hour patron-only stream each month where I work on anything you want (usual will-not-draw list applies) plus you get all the .psd files from that stream! If you’re not available for the stream I will collect information ahead of time.
(Links to this real example/artist will be deleted as it's just one of the many issues of abuse and this one example is not the target)
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
So you get a CHANCE to win a sketch, access to 'exclusive' streams, copies of art that is not yours and 4 hours of work. For $250?!! I can get a picture animation for that price from other talented people. Why should anyone support something like that?! Hell, 4 hours of my work just gets me $80. But this, $250?! Are you seriously saying your work time is worth $62.50 an hour?!! You'd make my bosses boss go DAMN SON.
GUYS, GUYS, Patreon is helpful to support projects, like games, movies, videos, comics and other sort of entertainment media. Such entertainment cannot exist without the aid of fund raising.
Being an artist IS NOT A PROJECT!! $62 an hour I can justify if all proceeds goes towards a specific ongoing goal. Got an amazing comic idea? What about a 4 minute long animation of yiffing? Share it! Tell us how to support your goal! Otherwise, it's abuse and for all that does this, shame on you >:(
or worse on both sides, denied credit cards keep getting charged until all charges at once.
Patreon is a good concept, but the abuse is toxic. It needs to stop.
But I agree, $250 is a lot to essentially hand someone monthly to do what they want with it. That was my entire art budget in January and I got like...6 or 7 pieces, and all of it was great quality. Perks like that don't really reward the user at all, it almost reads a bit like they're just taking your money for nothing. I'm all for supporting personal projects and I donate to people sometimes if I really like their content so I'm not stingy. This just reads like daylight robbery though :/
That is the problem, there is no goal. There is no growth. Where is my investment going?
But yeah, a lot of it is empty and goalless. In these times a lot of people aren't as well off as they'd like to be, and you have to be willing to provide something good to really earn that funding from your patrons. It's important that the incentive is there if you plan on using Patreon as payment model.
"Reach $1000 and I'll work on something big!"
That's it, just something big. It's not even specific, it's just the artist feeling pressured to do something more. That's not a goal, that's a liability and once again defeats the purpose :(
It's there because of liability, guilt of getting so much, which is something no project should ever have :(
The problem is, if there is no goal, it ONLY becomes about the return which so many people fail to see.
You are guaranteed art and the artist is guaranteed money.
Taking commissions I can get behind. Charging money for a themed art package or a collection of artwork in it's best quality, I can get behind. Charging people for the privileged of looking at your everyday artwork and then rubbing it in the faces of those who can't (How many times have you gotten a big influx of posts in your queue only to find that they're all adds for someones Patreon?) That's just being a dick. There's nothing wrong with asking for some cash here and there if you need it. Don't hold your own work hostage.
....ahem...Just sayin'.
Exactly, wouldn't it be better to have the money contribute to future art projects? Like a comic, picture series or animation?
For example, if you wanted to become a great artist, just lacking the time and money. That is where patreon comes in.
"Hey guys! I want to be a great artist drawing sexy bear porn. Pay me $25 a month and I'll get started, posting my progress everyday. I cannot offer anything but a thank you."
Heck, I'd support that! I don't care if I get nothing, it's a goal I can agree with.
Artists want to make the art they want, which is fine, however, that is not a goal. There is no growth or end to it.
and i give it a 50% of both. you'ed be amazed how many people try to constructively fuck you over. and not in the fun way :(much like how kickstarter works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwBtIdPxXI i mean 61k$ for potato salad? really? =w= and i mean if that many people are stupid enough to do that im sure the popular furry artists would easily milk that off of the fools on patreon.
but ya some times its possibly because the artist is also an moron who doesn't understand how that works. however i wouldnt put the possibility of them just taking advantage of you past them. you'ed be surprised of the true nature behind the artist. but like wordcaster had described. if its something like a goal for an actual project like a dating sim,a videogame,a comic,movies,videos,animation flash's etc.
but otherwise your pretty much gonna get poop squat.
Commissions and eventual donations, the only true way of support.
I'd pay $1000 a month for a furry movie full of nothing but kinky gay sex. Yet, I get nothing in return for my contribution, that's fine.
In the end, me and everyone got a giant kinky porn movie.
Typical Navos right here
That's why I only support one or two people at this point on Patreon. If I want to support an artist, I commission them. Or I just throw money at them and say "Here! I am hereby contributing to your artistic caffeine fund. Go forth, and make amazing/amusing arts!"
I firmly believe it's a matter of time before someone gets caught stealing others' art to make a quick scam-buck off of patreon.
At least, That's what I've been seeing a lot of patreons do.
Redefine your term.
Art is valued by those who are willing to pay for that.
I charge $50+ a sketch right now and have been told by multiple people its too much and Im not worth that.
But for ever 1 that complains, another 2 are willing to pay it.
Chill out dude, its their prerogative to do crazy scheming ideas, and yours to just not purchase it. (like alot of other people who wont pay that much )
I mean, People still do raffles, even though that's outright against the fucking TOS.
Dont throw insults. Im being fairly level headed on the subject.
For example, if a person wants to make a furry yiffing gay kinky porn movie, I'll gladly aid $250 a month with asking nothing in return. It's about the project, not the return.
If there is no project, that ONLY leaves the return. Unless the return has good value, it'll come off as bad, a scam, a waste. You NEED to have a goal in mind other than, "I wanna draw more, pay me so I can draw more." There is no growth, no improvement and no end goal to a mindset like that.
The reason why this abuse must end is people often don't even look at things like patreon and kickstarter, immediately assuming it's something asinine like the example above.
I was thinking in use the site for promote but I heard fees are quite high and you can't use paypal if you're planning to patreonize for mature and adult artwork.
For now, I'm with my current commission model. (by the way, if you're interested in commission me, heads me up)
Not locking into a closed target like mature pics but open yourself with fresh ideas for everyone seems the key for patreon.
Too many people selfishly jumped the train.
HOWEVER, it's just asinine to use such a system so you can do whatever you desire with your talent. I can justify it with it being for a goal, after all, it's my patronage to see the persons goal come true. If the goal is to live while doing art, done? Mission accomplished? There is no clear focus. Okay, it's art, what is it all about? Is it a comic? Is it a picture series? Is it an animation? Why should I care about what you are doing?
I have nothing against people charging a lot, hell, even if it was $1, if there is no goal, there is no point and it ticks me off that people try to abuse it.
I have a proper ongoing project (comics), Direct, attainable goals (base/color/fancy), low pledge levels ($1/$5/$10),Each with APPROPRIATE content for the price, ONE moonshot which gets you custom content (A custom comic for $100, Half of which goes to the creation of the custom content, and the other half to the main project), I don't charge monthly, only per project..
And it took me a month of heavy advertising JUST to clear the base goal.
Why is it that those who abuse the system get thousands, while the people who actually do it right barely make the $300 per project (1/3rd of that going poof in taxes and fees!) required?
I want to not pay my bills, does that mean I am going to ask for fund raising? No, it's a responsibility, we all must do things we hate and patreon is and will not be an escape for that. I hate it when people use art as a hindrance thus needing money to actually create what you want, whenever you want. Shameful.
But that is common to all artistic business models, not just Patreon.
But, that's his goal, he's not just making videos, he's making videos about MMO's which I will happily contribute too. Not to mention has a set schedule and aims to release videos weekly. Heck, all he offers for $30 is you get to play with him and MAYBE contribute to a video.
Like your comic, I see a goal and I can justify donating to it. However, if it just said, "help me make a comic about something" then why ask for money? Hell, anyone can think of a great comic idea. If working with video games has taught me anything, it's that people are often filled with creativity.
as for what you say about the use of patron to suport progrects and not every day life i get were you are coming from.
That said, I know someone who's turned to patron to get help with the everyday living because of a disability that licturely keeps them jobless, so their goal is to stay housed. Which i think is ok. Uh that is to say while I belive your opinion is correct I belive myself that somecases are alright.
Oh and suporting them helps them to keep working on their comic without having to stop from running out of money (>..<)
as for terms of use I can't see anything that says you can't. after reading through it and other stuff it seems kinda geared to it.
Would you mind linking me to it please?
Ooh i should give your thing a look.
I know some people abuse that system but honestly if all we do I is look at the negatives it's going to scare off a lot people from supporting the artist who are actually using the system appropriately. Seeing how popular this journal has gotten I would love to see you post a "how to use the patreon system right" journal and promote smart funding.
I'm curious to know the quality of what you are using as an example...