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Mar 19, 2015 - FA Joins the IMVU Family [UPDATE 2]
10 years ago
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Journal Start
We are proud to announce Fur Affinity has joined the IMVU (link) family. Fur Affinity (formerly a part of Ferrox Art LLC) was acquired by IMVU earlier this year in January 2015. We are looking forward to the partnership allowing both FA and IMVU to grow and foster the furry community and to celebrate its unique talents, creativity and self-expression.
As you know, IMVU has previously advertised their services to our community, which led to further discussions about the obvious overlap among our members. Both IMVU and FA community members love to socialize and connect anonymously with people from around the world with diverse backgrounds, talents, and creative histories. They both express their artistic and creative skills in a variety of ways - via artwork, storytelling, fursuiting, crafts and more! Our partnership was the natural and reasonable conclusion to bring these similar and often already connected communities together officially.
Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on.
FA started with a dream and a roll of duct tape, but grew and thrived thanks to the support of our community. We became one of the top 5,000 sites globally, 1,500 sites within the United States. The future remains bright, and together we can aim to reach even higher.
We look forward to having you continue to participate in our community, be creative, be proud, and, above all else, have fun. You are unlikely to notice any changes apart from an improved experience on the site and some added advertising.
Naturally, we understand you will have lots of questions regarding this change, and we are here to answer them. You can check the forums for the official question/answers (link). We'll be compiling a Q/A to help address concerns and response to questions!
Q: I heard/read IMVU has the right to repost my content and use it however they want?
A: "Fur Affinity is governed by the site's terms of use, not Google's, Apple's or IMVU's." - IMVU
Rest assured, IMVU is *NOT* taking FA content, redistributing it, reposting it, using it in-game, etc. It's your content. Only FA has the right to show it if you upload it to the site. No one else.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA
As you know, IMVU has previously advertised their services to our community, which led to further discussions about the obvious overlap among our members. Both IMVU and FA community members love to socialize and connect anonymously with people from around the world with diverse backgrounds, talents, and creative histories. They both express their artistic and creative skills in a variety of ways - via artwork, storytelling, fursuiting, crafts and more! Our partnership was the natural and reasonable conclusion to bring these similar and often already connected communities together officially.
Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on.
FA started with a dream and a roll of duct tape, but grew and thrived thanks to the support of our community. We became one of the top 5,000 sites globally, 1,500 sites within the United States. The future remains bright, and together we can aim to reach even higher.
We look forward to having you continue to participate in our community, be creative, be proud, and, above all else, have fun. You are unlikely to notice any changes apart from an improved experience on the site and some added advertising.
Naturally, we understand you will have lots of questions regarding this change, and we are here to answer them. You can check the forums for the official question/answers (link). We'll be compiling a Q/A to help address concerns and response to questions!
Q: I heard/read IMVU has the right to repost my content and use it however they want?
A: "Fur Affinity is governed by the site's terms of use, not Google's, Apple's or IMVU's." - IMVU
Rest assured, IMVU is *NOT* taking FA content, redistributing it, reposting it, using it in-game, etc. It's your content. Only FA has the right to show it if you upload it to the site. No one else.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA
though one of my best friends is a Swedish guy
I can now freely go retire into the mountains and live the rest of my years as a Buddhist monk.
"here lies Teej
dildos."
This is dildoes.
dildos for all.
March 19th is officially Dildo Day.
Dildo Dildo
IMVU owns our... nuts
Oh Dildo Day
Astro Dildonics
Plastic.
:(
so... how would that work? your profile says your taken
oke after my last post i skipped every other message.. (note i,m no artist lawyer or businessman or furry)
why complain about this ? i mean really.. all you guys do is complain and no positive comment out of this
you know, imvu only bought stocks in my book. they bought FA and gave allot of k of money worth of gear/performance in return, people just ignore that and read **imvu BOUGHT FA** they dont get the upgrades and performance part of the deal, and besides FA is also still working independent from imvu. imvu doesnt take part in the future development of FA
also why complain about something that is optional.. you dont have to go to imvu to get onto/in FA..
look i know people are gonna be mad for me mentioning it, but just like google+and youtube, i never use google+ but do use youtube ( to watch adult marked content). you never have to use the Google+ service to go to youtube ( only shit is they upload videos/replies/comments directly on your +page ) so you have to register to google+ and youtube and yet you dont need to use the service that is google+ to go to youtube or vice versa.
the same goes for imvu. you dont need to use it to join this site nor do you need to join this site to go into imvu
also i dont get the complaint about ads either? even tough i block them that doesnt mean i dont like them. i actually only intended to use it for videos on youtube and stream, but never thought of changing the priority on every site . you know ads work 2 ways. you buy advertising space on sites/TV to promote your product and get more people. or you sell your advertising space to a company for a reasonable fee. or do both and get more followers and money( to use for your company (growth)
or a third option probably not applicable here.. use youtube/facebook/twitter/any other ''free media'' for showing your product..
so basically ads are important... both for growing companies as well as to show what '' we make''/do this as a company
about your personal info selling to imvu?: is that your biggest concern? really? the government and hackers can get your hand on your info also and you complain about the company investing some money in a fandom/furry community getting your info
also people/furries! dont hate the hell out of the owners. why not trust that imvu is not helping FA ( ''to the ground'') in any way( says they're still independent from/to imvu)
that it may be a generous donation instead of a buyout. that dragoneer still owns fur affinity(seems like it since he is still in charge)
it maybe a April fools prank gone wrong..
and you guys!: why complain at all before something happens! just sit it down and wait.. not every company are dicks like what you guys say/claim
(i also confess i have had imvu but never got on it only once in a while for 15 minutes )
The big issue there is the user-based ads.
FA has promoted users through allowing them to buy ad space for a long time. I used to love finding an artist through the banners. It was a fair exchange to buy ad space on here because it let people be promoted for a fair price, and they got the clicks they paid for, period.
Now, however, they are being ripped off. People don't know what to do: support their fellow artists, or get an ad blocker. I have gotten to the point where I am fed up, and just buckled and switch AdBlock Plus ON when using this site. But this does not solve the problem. This is an ultimately ineffective bandaid that does no real healing where it matters the most, y'see? I myself was going to get ad space on here, but am now worried it won't be at all fair for the price I pay, since no where NEAR as many people see the ads on the page anymore. But it's the only place that really worked for promoting your page/website/art in the furry community before. See how it goes in circles? No good, man. It's just no good.
Hopefully this better explained the problem, here!
Second, in regards to users' personal information being sold/shared:
Your argument for this is absolutely mind-boggling to me, but that is probably because you genuinely don't understand. It is a very serious matter, and this is common knowledge. You would benefit from just searching for this on google(or whatever search engine you're keen on) and figuring out yourself why it is so bad. Seriously, it's too much to get into. It would change this from long comment into a novel. So, yeah. Research is your friend!
Third & lastly, responding to "why complain before something happens":
People are asking questions and voicing their concerns after being asked to. Read the last couple lines in the original journal post. It says it right there. & even if it didn't, they have every right to comment. It's similar to an apartment complex switching management. The residents may very well be in an uproar over it, and would certainly have a right to react. You can argue all you want about how they could just leave altogether, or they could just wait and see what happens; but really, that is the less plausible and productive reaction to have, if you consider it logically.
Always remember that everyone has a right to an opinion. It's important to never argue against that. People have opinions on everything - even if their opinion is that they don't care either way. You see what I'm trying to say? Arguing against someone's having an opinion is illogical and moot. It is what it is. It's a matter of addressing concerns openly, honestly, and respectfully, in hopes of coming to a cordial compromise, a fair & balanced agreement, a conclusion. The argument is happening. You cannot take it back, and you cannot negate the feelings and opinions of others. You can only move forward if you hope to achieve any closure.
Can someone clear this up for me, please?
But im sure it happens.
It's mostly furries with huge DICKS
http://imgur.com/JQOHvcE
that is at the Cerberus sandbox where only the most perverted of the furry fandom hang out. i avoid it at all costs after an incident there.
But i loved you Billybob.
All the contacts I had to fled to Second Life got bored with it and have left. I think that's pretty standard now.
I guess to each their own if they leave or stay!
LOL
How would most furries survive on it.
They have some pretty creepy furry avatars.
Lol <3
DOWNS
xD
then they couldn't even count to potato anymore :( i cri evertim.
I would suggest people check out the BBS site concerning IMVU. Read and make your own conclusions.
http://www.bbb.org/losangelessilico.....868/complaints
Mark my words, in a few weeks we will have to buy "FA's premium account" to get access to Adult content.
I would say Freemium is free if the purchased content is not needed to use the product. I don't use IMVU, but do play a "freemium" mobile game. A lot. Amount of money spent over the last year on the game? $0. The freebies are enough. And you might say that "well if the freebies are enough, they're doing it wrong," which is a logical conclusion, except it was the #1 game in the world for in-game content purchases.
And people buy into this when peer pressure gets to them. The amount of people strong enough to resist are a minority compared to the impulse buyers.
Well that's their own damned fault then. I'm certainly in general favor of 'a fool and his money...'
And this is why their business works.
It works for everyone, including me.
With 5000 credits you can buy 5 times as more than on Second life and it costs 10 times less.
SL at least lets you work from shapes to make your own stuff, and you get the whole amount of the Linden people paid to purchase your item / mod
get this .
READY
IT ALLOWS SEX.
and that doberman guy is on there that makes all the sl porns.
http://theslicedbreadclub.com/wp-co.....With-It-33.gif
everything else.
cause sex. is cool and I like sex.
sex.
Not pg13 christian family websites.
/in before banned
In any case, I think it would be a safe bet to permanently delete my works from this website, as well as all my notes. Call me paranoid, but I've heard nothing but bad things about IMVU and I am definitely unhappy with this.
They get user interest and curiosity, we get funding needed.
Still, you now manage this site, and you now have a boss who don't have a good track record...with their own community...
as said below by another user
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44894135
we been part of em for about 3 months now and nothing changed, but they only spoke of their experiences. it can still go either way, heck remember when we partnered up with Furocity and that died out so an option of us being dropped due to not being profitable (remember its all about profits on this, they may be giving us stuff to improve the site, but they may still wish to get a profit BACK hoping out MUCH MUCH larger furry userbase here to use their 3D chat program that isnt that good anyway...). As my clan mates say in Idola "while this may seem stupid, give him a year or two. Review all the changes and improvements and detriments that occur during that time." So I'll give Neer his chance, and I'll watch to see what things occur and make a judgement if this was a good choice or not.
I'll give it a year.
They can rip the rug out from under us all due to their rather...stringent anti-adult ways.
Can FA survive with an adult paywall?
I really just can't tell which would be worse: you lying/misrepresenting/sugarcoating shit as usual, or you genuinely believing that selling the site to these people means nothing more than them giving you more money and resources, taking on that pretty substantial tax debt you still haven't explained to us, but they'll totally just sit back and let you stay in charge and keep running the site just as well as you've run it up to now.
I know that others have attempted to work out arrangements with you for either transfer of ownership or some shared responsibility, people and groups specifically and primarily personally invested in furry fandom, and known to be trustworthy and competent, all to be turned down or turned away because of you. "The world's largest 3d chat and dress-up community" is, clearly, not only something a significant chunk of users here have never even heard of, but there's no strong discernible connection or reason for why these people are who you'd hand the site over to as opposed to anyone else who's tried to take the wheel from you.
At least you've learned to stop using the word "transparency" since that is clearly not remotely within your wheelhouse.
Will FA still be completely free and 110% fully featured without money involved
Will the staff be influenced on either side, by either side
Is there a cross-influence of policies in any way
What is the financial responsibility breakdown as a result (and because it would be good evidence in your favor, what did it used to be)
Mostly "what is going to functionally change as a result of this"
There's no clap icon, so have a present.
question about policies is curious.. but is too early
Frankly I expect that the TOS and AUP and COC are all going planned to stay very much the same. I want it to get shouted from the hilltops, is the thing
Did they changed, or decide to look over that
Not necessarily. In my "real life," I happen to work at a company which was acquired by a larger company a decade ago. A company which until that point had an on-again off-again sympathetic / antagonistic relationship which had turned antagonistic again at the time of purchase. Everyone was worried "well they own us now, so they can make any changes they want, right?" Well, not so fast. It depends on the agreement made at the time of purchase and whether you can trust the people you made the agreement with -- IE, the CEO. My company changed very little -- the executive structure remained mostly unchanged, day to day operations were unchanged, company culture was preserved. It turned out to be a win-win. My company's products are good sellers, and we got to take advantage of parent company's distribution and advertising networks. Not one time in the last decade did I have to say "I didn't want to do this, but the overlords at the parent company forced my hand."
Even though I get to say "MyCompany is a wholely-owned subsidiary of BiggerCompany," and am technically an employee of BiggerCompany, MyCompany has done things the way it always has. It can work, and the situation enlightened me to the fact that personal relationships between executives between different companies are important. Oh, so very important.
Accumulate enough of them, multiply by 'trust', and you have something called 'solace'
But I'm going to take the high road on this one.
You're awesome, Psykrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGUaLTLiFLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMiYklHvjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q-caImkViE
in space no one can hear your emotionally scarring fursuit sex
And I am no longer the owner, but I am in charge of the site, direction and improvements. The difference is I now have the resources to make the improvements that have always been needed.
In the short term at least, I think this is a very good thing for the people who's income depends on FA, because they are a business. Like us, their revenue depends on keeping FA up and running. Sure, anything could happen, but this part at least is a plus.
I know it sounds kinda pessimistic of me, i've just been involved in communities and watched it happen when they lost the biggest core site where they was so much divide into smaller sites and then people wanting to make even smaller sites in hopes of being the next big one that the community eventually fizzled out. I don't wanna see that happen to furries.
its to upload everything to weasyl
Also, it's important to remember that FA is not furry, nor is furry FA. There were furries long before FA existed, and it will probably continue after its passing. I think some fragmenting is inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing. Furry represents a wide range of interests that don't always mesh together. Just like science fiction fandom spun off Trekkers, anime fandom, and furry, maybe the best future is a number of furry sites that cater to specific interests.
I can't blame him for the sheer quantity of conspiracist shit that's aimed at him when he signs so many blank personal checks to keep the place running.
The tax thing was something VERY different.
There is a huge cover-up with that.
(that's CERTAIN person I talk about), and then distribute all kind of storeis about FA owners...
such actions.. are disconcerting. And all butthurt just because they can't have their cub art here
#trouble
oh no.... I am meaning this in really worried....
W....what have you done Dragoneer...
I hope this doesn't ruin the FA we love.
ahahahahahahahahahahaha
but hey.
I'm... rather concerned about FA's future.
Also, no one knows what IMVU is because...
1. It's not popular. At all.
2. Everyone's moved on to Second Life and forgot this piece of shit 3D chat room flop even exists.
3. People are trolling and asking what it is, because... in reality... what is IMVU? Nothing. Just some Second Life wanna be that surfaced from the depths of Hades.
Case in point... *Points to the comments being made*
The current promise seems to be that everything will stay the same or improve as opposed to every upload costing $L for instance...
Second life laid off 2/3 of their employees in the past. I don't consider them stable or expanding.
Unlike IMVU...
For DJ'ing, that's more of something that other users would have to pay you in credits to have you host I guess.
As sculpts, then rigged mesh got added, the standards of quality and skill needed to produce them went up, squeezing some creative talent out of the running.
Even though you can make money, as a whole the argument holds little weight.
The truth is every SIM costs 80k Lindens or 300USD a month to run, and uploads, currency sales and currency purchases are all skimmed off of the top. Oh and if there is a server glitch and the transfer of Linden from user to user fails, you won't get your money reimbursed by Linden Labs.
Second life is still more popular than IMVU.
Second life is getting Second Life 2
IMVU still doesn't have walking.
IMVU still has crappy avatars.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6i7.....WXs1qfph1s.gif
2. Well on the bright side the community is more friendly and application is more performance friendly thank SL is by a far range.
3. And yet another opinion.
"Wow, I thought that was just some kind of malware from all those weird ads they run"
Lookin' forward to see where FA goes from here!
Second life is shit yeh...but less shit than IMVU and they earn way more money..
And look less shitty..
Other companies have larger furry communities.
Other companies have more specific focus on the furry community and fandom.
Other companies have more direct relevance and are more widely-known to people in this community.
This is not the first entity to come along and try to acquire FA from you, so what are the actual defining differences between IMVU and anyone else that made you choose to give them the site, as opposed to any other entity that would have made infinitely more sense to pretty much anybody concerned.
Either he finally did just throw up his arms and said fuck it, sold the site, and is just gonna bail,
or he actually believes this is all fine and good and just some company deciding to give him lots of money and help just because they're super nice and wanna help.
Without an official reason given, the simplest and most likely explanation for why he sold it to IMVU and not any previous offers is some combination of just money paid to him personally, and IMVU letting him believe he'll go on being in charge of everything, where any other offer likely made it clear that he would >not< continue running things because any honest offer from anyone seriously wanting FA to improve would know that Dragoneer is the only reason the site has failed to progress.
I don't see a legitimate business like this being so stupid as to do this while somehow not recognizing this site's failings and Dragoneer as a direct cause of them.
It's a 3D chat community. =3
Something about this doesn't sound right. I think there is more going on that you aren't telling us.
Why on earth would you think that coming from FA or Neer? :P
Click here!
It's FAs Job to explain it what they did and what it is.
Plus you'll probably have to link an IMVU account and install the client. Maybe even get to put your furry art on a 3D chatroom that you'll never go to.
Yes it is.
You can find it as the latest submission on my page. :P
It's from a larger piece on my profile, by
I think lots of people are gonna Google that one.
a online chat program kinda like Second life except you can only move in pose spots instead of wandering a area
Ahm....how is a 3D chat program going to help FA in general?
People complained about that too.
Except from what I heard, its pretty horrible. I've no opinion about it though since I've never used it.
I foresee that being a -real- blow to what's left of the community on here.
What changes are we going to see from this?
Rule 2. Fursonas must have human feet and hands, no paws.
Please follow these steps to avoid any implications of beastiality here on IMVUffinity.
Its all going downhill from here xD
if not, I'm gonna have to find some means of Weasyling my way out of this predicament!
Or when yahoo bought Egroups an fucked it up into unuseability
way to go FA
If they decided to just give you guys $20K in hardware... I'd expect a job opening at IMVU real soon.
You mean that weird 3D chat thing that has advertisements that look like spyware/scams?
why
Because Dragoneer.
Will this mean the IMVU guys will have power beyond advertisement? I doubt anything harmful would come as a result from that, but was just curious.
i can't. i can't even fucking do it this time. this is a bigger fucking joke than i could ever possibly make.
rip in piss
Goodnight, sweet Scoopicus, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.
How very, very, nice of them.
Funny how the contentment of a crowd only actually shows when it's disturbed, even if only to the eye and the substance of their happiness not actually threatened
The point is that no matter how much you've fucked up over the years, people still mostly trusted that whether or not you were any good at it, your INTENT was always for the best interests of this site and the people using it.
Now it's owned by someone else, someone most people here have never even heard of, and someone with no real visible connection or relation to this fandom or this community. The OBVIOUS and logical conclusion, the ONLY thing that makes any sense for why IMVU would acquire something like FA is money.
Acting like they're just really awesome and super-nice and this only means they're helping you make FA better because the ONLY reason you haven't already made FA better is just lack of resources (an insult in itself to the countless people who've thrown tens of thousands of dollars at you, or the countless professional and competent people who've offered their time and expertise to do what yak clearly cannot) is either extremely dishonest, or unfathomably gullible and naive if you actually believe that to be the truth.
THIS
FUCKING THIS
-gets down on one knee and attempts to marry this comment-
FA's failings are not, and have never been about lack of funds or resources. They have ALL, always come down to just Dragoneer himself, plain and simple.
WHEN he gets fired and replaced, which would be a blessing if practically ANYONE ELSE who had offered to buy him out were in charge, that is what is cause for concern. IMVU is not furries, are not personally invested in this fandom/community/subculture, and their offerings to appeal to furries are clear indication of a drastic absence of knowledge or awareness of what a "furry" is.
People who were around when FA was created (not by Dragoneer, everyone who might not be aware of that - he didn't create it, he bought it ) specifically as a result of SheexyArt removing porn are reasonably concerned that FA may now end up dying the same way Sheezy did.
Can you give us some kind of proof to ensure the new owners will not decided to make a change?
And another question: What happens if IMVU decides FA is no longer profitable or something they want to invest in? I worry they will just straight up shut the place down. Was this discussed with the company when you sold it?
Will this event be changing FA's 18+/content policies at all?
Dragoneer you have got to be the DUMBEST PERSON! Getting partnership with Second Life, I would not mind. But this piece of trash SL want to be that is so lackluster that everyone keeps asking, "WHAT IS IMVU?"
Get your shit together man. Seriously.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother coming back to FurAffinity. Oh right. This is where the good artists are because they tried going to Weasyl and people refused to support their decision to leave FA. Especially when they're blind to the fact FA's got a few staff members with dirty little "secrets."
This just takes the fucking cake though.
All IMVU has done is made FA worth more and the upkeep rise. If IMVU goes down,
FA will most likly go down with it.
And speaking of upgrading the site: Why do you need the help with that, when you have a entire community right here, who's more than willing to help and are capable of doing so by a good bit?
I mean its good news, but once again I mean you show how slow things are going and considering you want to be transparent towards your community, why is it you haven't given a announcement that a new partnership might happen and with whom, instead of this being a sudden new thing, there could do more harm than good, if it even changes anything?
that and I have addblock. so I only see it on my phone at times.
Congrats!
Or Livejournal, or ICQ
By selling to IMVU, somewhere he already is employed, Neer is ensuring that he can remain in charge of site structure and policy rather than just ditching and leaving the site (which I bet he'd probably love to do by now). It wasn't a matter of selling to the highest bidder, or the best option. I don't think he had any other offers.
"We are proud to announce Fur Affinity has joined the IMVU (link) family. Fur Affinity (formerly a part of Ferrox Art LLC) was acquired by IMVU earlier this year in January 2015. "
what does this 2nd life knock off have to do with FA and why do they needed to be merged?
Heck this seems a bit out of the blue, wasn't even on the list of phoenix project to-do's
I've made a point never to get involved on all this but... Wow.
I played around with IMVU and hated it.
Glad to see you holding true to those talks about "transparency going forward"
What could POSSIBLY go wrong??
very powerful feeling that IMVU is not going to see the user / profit margin increase they desire and pull out hahahah
It's no worse than here AT BEST.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/fi.....ownload-addon/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gallerygrabber/
You couldn't be more shady if you tried.
now I really don't care if I get banned/suspended next week simply because I posted links to other web sites. this is confirmation that this site really is going down hill fast.
Thank you for presenting an actual case and not just "oh well everyone knows, you know"
Let's say for instance they propose "We will add a premium service to FA, to allow people, like on deviantart, to get more features, but only by paying 5 dollars a month." Would you have to take that as it is, or would you be able to block that process completely?
I'd feel safer to know that this partnership could be severed, if needed, when there is the danger that FA might just become something like a sales platform, instead of something that is community driven.
There are no plans to change anything other than make improvements.
I certainly don't hope things go downhill, I would LOVE to see all the GOOD parts come to FA and this website flourish the way it's always needed to but I'm super worried that even 6 months down the line it's going to change and there won't be anything anyone can do about it. It'd be a shame to see FA go out like that.
I certainly wish you good luck with all this because I can't imagine that it'll go as perfectly as we (the community as a whole) would want.
I hope a lawyer explained this to you.
You are giving waaaaay too much credit to our fearless leaders if you think professional counsel was involved in this decision.
That's kind of the vibe I'm getting from comments, that their service isn't expected to last, or they may wish to sever FA from their service in the future.
My apologies in piggybacking on this comment chain. I haven't been through all the comments, but this seemed the relevant place to ask. Thank you. :)
Good job dude, you lost a lot of potential money with what is probably a really bad deal.
You've Had A Decade, that's ten years, Dragoneer, to improve 'your baby', and now that you've sold it, all you are is a puppet, and IMVU is pulling your strings. IMVU owns FA now, and by proxy, they own you, whether you believe that or not. You're just too blind to see it, and I almost feel sorry for you....... Almost.
After all the years of broken promises, lies, shitty service, horrendous hiring choices on SEVERAL occasions, etc. You deserve every bit of shit that's been slung at you these last two years.
Without an explicit statement saying that the admin staff retains complete control (which, frankly, is pretty dumb in IMVU's eyes considering the admins could just say "no more ads") any pledge they make, like not putting in scammy ads, is wholly verbal and can be reversed at their leisure.
This is a very bad decision, and not involving the community reeks of bad intentions.
Hope they don't sell out to corporate!
I mean I complained loudly and constantly when FA was independently owned, griped about the shoddy UI and support (but never contributed a penny) and compared Dragoneer to Hitler every time I mentioned his name, but this is SELLING OUT!!
I demand something for nothing! And even when I get it I'm not happy because I'm unpleasable! I HATE FA
Think of all the oculus rifts and google glasses everyone will be wearing way down the line. Now we'll be guaranteed virtual reality furries so everyone can be "diverse" without expensive surgeries!
I've been seeing so many Second Life images being removed. IMVU must not like free advertising of their #1 competition. Lol
Better question. What is Google? God some of you people are fucking lazy.
Anyway, this shit is hilarious. IMVU? Really? xD
Bleh.
Not that it really matters or anything.
Thanks for telling us ahead of time, yeah.
If nothing is changing I really don't see the point of sayif they own FA.
No one really knows about IMVU ( with good reason, it was never a good site).
So it's not like people are gonna be excited about this, it just concerns people.
I'm trying to figure out who this actually benefits more, IMVU or FA.
I think the mutual benefit is in FA essentially getting a hardware and coding sugar daddy while IMVU gets a whole community to itself to appeal to with game changes, policy changes, etc. of its own. I think IMVU is about to start really competing with SL and this was their first step in publicizing their changes in such a way that people will look on them favorably for the first time since 2005.
There really isn't much user data on FA to sell, at least not enough to warrant a buyout. Neer's already stated that user content policy and distribution rights will not change. I believe the advertisement and community attention was what IMVU was after in revamping their own company while also getting to be the good Samaritan to the dying, outdated, DDOS-riddled site that we know and love.
1.) IMVU Isn't totally free, you'd have to pay for things so you don't appear to be a hobo on the internet.
2.) You chose just now to tell us? Two months after January of this year?
3.) Like we need to let the creeps hidden around here loose on IMVU, is that really such a good idea?
Using FA's community and dedicated adspace, IMVU could easily swell to five times the userbase currently active in-game and keep growing. That would bring down marketplace prices and add to the creative community, motivate them to evolve game design and graphics and such, and altogether make the buy well worth it in the long run.
The only difference is better website performances and new features. Heck, having IMVU acquire FA may give us web coders an opportunity to help work on FA's features. You never know.
You all complain when FA has performance issues, whining that it's 'affecting your business and income'. To be fair, it is not a business unless you have a business license. It's a hobby, that you get paid to do.
Well, hallelujah. IMVU is welcoming FA to their resources to provide a better website experience. Aren't you all happy now?
I'm worried too but not because of presumed bad choices, only unknowns.
I have faith that while I know Dragoneer wanted to not be writing megabucks personal checks to keep FA running, he also wouldn't firesale the place, or give it over to someone he didn't trust and/or have some sort of panic button.
I understand some artists do in fact do art as a business and rely on FA's uptime. But compare that to the thousands who don't run as a business, you know what I mean.
What I was meant to say from that is, FA is sharing resources with IMVU, a.k.a their server racks and taking advantage of powerful servers and great internet speeds so there will be less whining about FA going down.
I apologize if I offended any artists that are paying their taxes to run their art business.
Never been on IMVU, from what I've seen its far from 'attractive' compared to Second Life. Also I wonder, how much 'free' stuff tied to this site is about to go out the window? Not everyone can 'pay to play', hopefully nothing like that will occur, hopefully.
-Posting anything Second Life related will now get you banned
I'd say out of the two, Second Life actually has the larger furry userbase
Plus, IMVU furry avatars all look like "monster girl high" dolls TBH
Neer has already stated that site policies and specifically the AUP aren't going to change.
*head tilt*
That said, what the fuck, Dragoneer?
What
the actual
fuck
Also IMVU lol.
I left IMVU to play SecondLife.
I will not be playing IMVU again or even want anything to do with it.
Well done you gigantic wigglewaggles.
With IMVU, there's a monumental lack of options and customization compared to SL, but even 13 year old me could get started on a stupid IMVU avatar. Not that that makes it any better, but it seems like its more "approachable" to younger people, or promiscuous growing teens with their mom's credit card.
Personally if you want help getting into SL I could lend that assistance. There's actually islands dedicated to helping new people getting into the game and teaching them things like building and scripting.
Dem shrekz
I don't keep up with furry art drama. Please do tell.
Not that I'm anticipating that ever happening, but it's a possibility and most people seem to be assuming the worst. I'll still be here, Weasyl, and www.matthewebel.com of course.
Then one day they decided that sex was a TERRIBLE thing and anything related to it should be blacklisted and removed from their content, including the content that THEY CREATED.
To this day they disallow any material that involves even slight pelvic movement, aroused genitalia, or even body curves over a specific size.
I'm leaving FA now before IMVU gets its wish and begins censoring content here as well.
Now to flood my gallery with IMVU screenshots.
If anything, I hope this means things actually getting done now that another corporation is breathing down FA's neck. Then again, when do things not fall through here?
Oh! Does this mean staff genuinely won't be a circlejerk anymore?
If this falls through, at least Weasyl finally will get everyone to come over.
"Jesus Christ! That FA thing we bought is cutting into our margins! Get rid of it, and fast!"
"Yeah, we didn't make much by filling it with annoying adverts anyway. Only a few people joined IMVU, and they didn't really stay long or buy anything from the high-margin list..."
"Shut 'er down. Faster the better!"
"She'll be gone by this afternoon."
Later that afternoon...
"FurAffinity has been closed. It's been a fun ride, so long and thanks for all the fish. All your files are gone. Bye!"
THIIIIIIIIIIIS
It's not April 1st yet.
FA has never had a 'big data' feel to it. This isn't like Bad Dragon acquiring F-list.
FA is the largest collection of furry art and furry history on the Internet. Having that acquired by a non-furry company is more than a little concerning. I'd be okay if FA was bought by Bad Dragon, if it was bought by a company with furries at the helm, but I don't believe IMVU is capable of respecting the current and historical significance of FurAffinity to our culture.
EA Games assures the companies it buys that they'll operate independently, and then they're assimilated. The monetization strategies that most social networks have here would break something fundamental in FA's culture that I'm not sure the community would survive.
Unfortunately, you all deal with all of the vitriol directed to the heads of any social network and have stewardship quite like Wikipedia. You're not an art gallery, you're not a social network, you're not a wiki, you're not a forum, you're a combination of all four that's something incredible and something difficult.
I don't see how any non-furry company can respect that for long. Stick to your guns on remaining independent and preserving the community. It'd be a shame if Furaffinity became the next Livejournal.
What have you been smoking?
;P
They are literally the Microsoft of the furry fandom, aggressively acquire websites, have shady business practices (which are documented), and have possible financial ties to most other furry sites. And this isn't inflammatory or speculation. Look it up.
Literally nobody that should have accountability in this fandom has any.
and as for the LARGE furry community IMVU has
no it doent, most furries dont even use the site they just create and sell on there
Seriously, good on you for generating enough interest to create this partnership.
I registered back on imvu back when it was just starting out (don't use it anymore, took a break from it) and it's definitely grown ALOT since it was created. As for the furry community on imvu? It's somewhat cliquish...oh wait, that's everywhere and everyone, furry and nonfurry, silly me...
What you have done is pretty much doom FA unless they keep their promises. You have no say anymore. If IMVU wants to change something, you can do nothing but bend over like we the users have to your fuck ups through the years.
You can't "just sell" to anyone.
Of all people to "sell out" to, IMVU seems like more of a desperate choice more than anything. The way Neer says they're a company "that wants to see FA succeed" kind of makes it sound like there aren't many options... oooor maybe it's the first one that actually responded because IMVU themselves are desperate for attention since they're the poor man's Second Life?
I'm only throwing out half-serious ideas here. I don't have much investment in FA's future since I'm not submitting content due to shit like this. At worst, if FA goes downhill with the "paid adult content" thing people are hypothesizing, I know that EVERYONE will leave this place because that's the one thing FA has going for it - for now.
In any case, FA's track record for questionable decision-making lives on. The only FA announcement I've seen with some kind of positive response is anything relating to upgrading FA, which never goes anywhere.
I am certain many people haven't even clicked the site link, because it's on ads everywhere, looks like a spyware and looks cheap as heck.
i would assume that would get vary tiring but...who knows, people will still ask the same questions im sure....
apparently it was hard for people to click the obvious link for the IMVU earlier =/
hmmm dont really know how that happened.....
oh well if after 2 months you apparently merged a while ago nothing MAJORLY bad happened, probably nothing will for a while.
just with all this new money can we please get folders now =3 *begs hopefully*
*puts this comment on the biggest LED sign I can find*
*APPLAUDS*
All I have to say is have fun while you can. You are a public company and because of that you have people to answer to in regards to money making. With all the money you poured into the site, hope you can make it back quick.
https://twitter.com/IMVU/status/578623205146951680
This is no joke
...
...
...
If they do something this site
then i leave.
;w;
I am not real keen on IMVU but considering they actually target furries on a number of sites I am not shocked they would want a piece of the heart of the fandom. I have definitely seen their software show up on my client's computers as part of adware bundles so they clearly have some sort of referral process that can be abused.
That said, I truly believe something had to give. If this is the company willing to invest in FA, and they truly don't change anything content-wise for the worse, it is a very important and good decision. If they do, well, FA wasn't always the heart of the fandom. Life is change.
We'll see how this plays out, I guess.
I know there have been ads, but what a weird partnership. I mean, congratulations are in order, but man. Kinda weird to me.
google plusIMVU integration with your FurAffinity accounts.To Weasyl I go!
ಠ_ಠ
BUT!
IMVU does have a lot of creative people and unique ideas which no other place has.
What does bug me there is....HUMAN FACES ON FUCKING STICK FIGURE FURRIES! -bleaches my eyes-
OKAY i'm calm now ♥
I just hope they don't screw up (I'm looking at you, Google-Youtube)
As in one month after raising $19,000 from the community you sold the site? And if that's when it was sold, then how long have negotiations been going on?
I find it hard to imagine they took under a month, so were you already in discussions to sell the site when the emergency fundraiser was running?
And to IMVU? Wow, hope you like nekos, because it looks like the only furry content they handle.
With all the problems with FA, I can't imagine it getting to the end of the year before IMVU realise what they've actually bought and pull the plug on it. :(
I much rather find artists through the commissions my friends place with them, as it has led me to some very nummy artists in the past, with only a few artists in among them who seem to think they're the reason the world turns and will snap at you for no reason.
Now if the advertisements on sites were unobtrusive I would be far more willing to disable Adblock, but for some reason people tend to put these things in the most obnoxious of places and move the content I actually come to their sites for lower down on the page.
Pixiv especially has made some bad advertisement choices, but the same goes for DA and FA.
True ;/ I guess it's just the way to make the most money since that's all that these websites seem to be about these days. Although I haven't any experience with Pixiv I definitely feel it's the case with DA with their premium memberships etc.
riiiiiiiight
.. never updating the page
.. never implementing new features
.. begging for more donations to buy unnecessary hardware upgrades
.. outright refusing help from people who were FAR more knowledgeable and skilled in handling big pages.
What a jerk move. It's been nice two years for me.
Speculation time with Chewy Lemon!
What if the new mods are IMVU employees?
also why wuld you hide this from the FurAffinity community for months????? What happened to that "transparency" bullshit you tried to spit at us a few months ago?????
(oh and hiding your staff from the community nice nice)
Meeting scalability requirements, redundancy setups, offloading resource usage etc.
> when its coding is as bad as it is.
You speak as if poor performing software doesn't get better when you throw more hardware at it.
I don't know where you're from, but here you can't even hire just one developer for $40k a year that has knowledge and real world experience with developing scalable solutions.
Note: I work in and I am senior in this industry.
It's also not 'technically' He sold the site to them. They own his ass now as long he works on FA in any capacity.
taking two chance XL flaired dildos and having sex with an HIV positive murrsuiter covered in shit in piss.
oh and 650 dollars USD.
Well, everyone too stupid to already be using AdBlock Plus, at least.
But IMVU isn't stupid. The Furry sub-culture grows contstantly and is blossoming. I think they wanted to get a foot into the fandom in case it start to becomes a valuable market for all sorts of stuff. Ring-Ring-Ca$h.
IF they did wish to improve their furry community they gonna have a bad time :V
There are a lot more questions I have but I am curious if these will be answered?
Clearly if he hadn't said anything about it, there would be no bawww right now. Every time FA ever announces or is transparent about something (such as when this deal was made), it leads to further bawww.
Point proven.
incoming pay per view per picture
all sexuality banned 4 ever
I bet some people are feeling like suckers now.
Don't get me wrong, but IMVU is getting no where, they are working on that for more than 8 years now and they still have not fix bugs that should have been fixed years ago.
Also, when are we getting a Credit system here with notes for sales, that is freaking lovely!
I really don't get why this happened, lol
A match made in heaven then.
>sell site
K
4.4 - Your private account information is only accessible by staff trained to handle it, is kept confidential, and is not sold to third parties.
Because that sounds like a hell of a time sign me up
You have no legal basis to file suit, unless IMVU or FA sell your information to a third party...that they don't own as part of the "corporate family."
Keep in mind, there is usually legalese that lets their contractors and businesses they partner with see your information with any company. (Phone bills usually have this in the yearly privacy policy mailing.) There is usually an opt out clause where you must write in to be excluded. How it will work here, I don't have an idea.
They now have (and FA has had) a fiduciary duty to hold your information in private...but also in accordance with local and federal law (Patriot Act inquiries), and their own TOS, or FA's, so long as it is held as a separate entity and not simply a branch of IMVU.
That's my understanding, anyway.
FA's terms of service specifically stated (and as of the time of writing still do) that they would not sell personal data to a third party - selling the entire site including the database obviously counts as selling personal data, since that data is stored in the database which did not previously belong to IMVU and now does. I hope you and the others who made the same argument understand because I'm not sure I can be more clear on this.
Maybe Dragoneer didn't sell the database, or only sold part of it. It would be good if he could clarify this matter. It's unlikely though; according to him, IMVU's interest in FA is in its community, and without the database containing our personal data there's no community, just some PHP scripts and a fuckload of porn :P There will be specific provision either way in the terms of sale, so it should be an easy matter to clear up.
Dragoneer assures us in a forum post that IMVU do not currently have access to the database, and it's entirely possible that they have no interest in it now or in the future (that would be strange, but not implausible) but unless there is specific provision in the terms of sale to indicate otherwise, they own that database. Now that the acquisition has gone through, if Dragoneer refused to provide access to that database upon request, or deleted it to prevent abuse of personal data, he would be (at the very least) in breach of contract with IMVU, possibly criminally so. What I mean is, Dragoneer has completely handed over control of the personal data that was previously in his charge, whether or not he is nominally in charge of it for the time being.
To be clear, Dragoneer was absolutely legally entitled to sell his site and everything on it. I'm not saying he wasn't. It was his site, we enjoyed it largely for free, and I have no view on IMVU as a company either - some people love them, others hate them, most don't give a shit either way and I'm squarely in the latter group.
What I care about is that as a user of this site I was assured that my personal data would not be sold, when in fact it appears that this exact thing happened 2-3 months ago without any visible indication or reassurance that our data and our rights to that data would be protected. Perhaps everything's fine. Chances are it is. I would like it in writing though.
In sales there are two parties. They were not a third party. During discussions about buying the site, they were...and were not sold any user data yet...until they were in the contract phase. He didn't sell any data when they were not part of or owner of FA. That's when they were a third party. During contract negotiations they were a second party, not a third. Though privacy protection would still mean that until the final pen stroke, they see no user data. It's the nature of selling anything. Otherwise nobody could sell a site or business. This is the nature of a contract. He sold FA. Then they get the data, not before.
Your data was, unfortunately, always able to be sold, but only to find party being directly involved with the sale of the site / company. It's the same when a new phone company buys your old one. They have access to your phone number and call records...but not until they own the company that holds them. Essentially, any site you register with is a "holding company" for your data, which goes to the new company. Otherwise they wouldn't be buying much but the name of the company.
It's taking forever for the type to catch up to my fingers. I apologize. I'm not being argumentative. I'm hoping everything goes well and remains private as well. It's just during a sale of a business, they're no longer a third party, but involved. A third party is not involved in the sale of a business.
Now if only this whole thing about their redistribution of art being a thing or not wasn't as clear as mud. X3
I can see this going very smoothly or completely to whit and IMVU just ends up taking over FA completely. Granted, I will defiantly be posting my art on new sites for safe measure.
Why am I not surprised...
Not TO EXCITED to hear it but nothing can change it.
why did you team up with something that IS even inferior to Furcadia when it comes to "furry community"
really when you think of furries you tend to think Second life or Furcadia, IMVU doesnt pop up on that radar.
I mean you even see it here
"hardly anyone know what IMVU is, and even if we saw the ads they saw it not interesting..."
As Idola clan says "We know furries are gullible fucks, who are willing to toss their money at anything remotely furry" we just gonna go
"Ya seem to be in great need of things, and you going to them show that maybe things wasnt alright from the start, and you may have made things worst."
Folks are gonna wonder what IMVU is, they gonna look it up, they gonna experience how sub par it is and gonna be a negative, due to again "its furry community is small"
Nah.
I didn't know they still existed either haha
So in other words they got a bunch of money from the users and THEN sold the site off?!
Fly away from here
From this dark cold hotel room
And the endlessness that you fear
You are pulled from the wreckage
Of your silent reverie
You're in the arms of the angel
May you find some comfort here
http://www.modernprimate.com/wordpr.....06/popcorn.gif
Away i go back to sofurry! Love these comments though.
had to come back to FA just for this journal xD
Ily spazzy <3
No, wait... I'm not. I am a faggot.
We don't like secrecy at all
We don't like IMVU at all.
We don't like the sounds of this, AT ALL.
I really hope you made a good decision for once, FurAffinity people. Cause this was a risky move, a real risky one. Still kinda wished you guys would listen to the ones who use you though. Put up votes for what is happening god damn it, let the people have a voice for once!
Fa needs help, we all know that.
but
IMVU becoming the owner is a concern for me more that it looks the same as it did when i was 13, i haven't seen any improvement in it in 10 years.
I can only hope it brings something good to the table but the question everyone is asking themselves is what is IMVU expecting to get out of it.
hey hey so they (FA-IMVU) have something in common~!
I've only been on FA for... 4[?] years
Looking forward to the new censorship and freemium our new Overlords bring us.
You better fix it up and wake up to reality......
IMVU is really not a good choice
omfg that's brilliant what an asshole
Guess people will do anything to get money
you guys bought him one expensive ass BD to fuck himself with i'll tell you that
DODGED A BULLET!
going to try to sell me 1O,OOO credits every week or tell me how great it is on getting V.I.P?
Come on. Why.
I don't fault them for wanting to make something back on all of their own personal money, time, heart and soul that they've put into this site.
At the same time, I am troubled by some of the legalese of the sale contract:
IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale.
I don't like the bit about 'reserves the right to redistribute content'... I don't want my content being posted elsewhere. It's stuff I paid for, or created. I and the artists should be the ones who decide when and where it gets posted.
This part was clarified. A valid concern though.
If the quoted line is the exact wording in the policy, it grants broad rights to IMVU over content that was created by, paid for, and then uploaded by FA's users. They can change their minds about the usage at any time.
If they only intend to use it in a narrow manner, then those uses should be explicitly enumerated and explained.
It made the mess he better clean it up. No one with do it for him
TL;DR: FA may need cash, but not at expense of losing what it was made for
...
...
...
Ah who am I kidding - this is the stupidest thing that has happened to FA. Really? IMVU? In 7ish years they haven't allowed you to move around in their chatrooms and the poseballs aren't even editable to make up for size differences.
Save your porn now guys, because that 30+K that was donated to get FA on the cloud was blown!
Nudity: aroused genitals (UFI) - Depictions of aroused genitalia and/or unrealistc or overly detailed genitals.
Strong Sexual Content (UFI) - Graphic references to and/or depictions of sexual acts including, but not limited to, penetration/intercourse, and/or oral sex with or without another avatar or any other object; additionally, this includes any overt sexual toys and/or aides.
Sexual Violence (UFI) - Any act, depiction, promotion, or suggestion of rape or other violent, non-consensual sexual acts.
are the few which strike a bit of concern, if IMVU has any say over FA's AUP, it could mean a full censorship of the site. ;-;
"Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on."
What if they did not have a choice?
"Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on."
Shit, man, you made such an awful business deal it's IMVU they're already in the shitter lol
If FA and IMVU are partnering, maybe nothing will change since they technically haven't necessarily taken over...right?
*crosses fingers*
"Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on."
Hm, doesn't sound that bad
"Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on."
SITE!!11111!!!
:<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
*forever sad fox*
This is interesting.
A bit concerning, in case they take the site in a direction we don't want it to go and fuck over the artists who make a living here, but.
If it's been bought since January it's already been going on, so.
I'm more concerned with where this will take the site and why they decided to only NOW tell us this was happening.
Transparency
That's my issue, like, I'm afraid the company will try to control FA's content or something. Which would kill it's traffic by destroying what makes FA so appealing to such wide audiences in the first place., so I'd hope they'd know better than to do that.
It's making me a little nervous. I'm hoping all this is going to affect is the quality of the site in a positive way by giving it more financial support by being owned by a larger group, and no content changes or massive rule changes that affect folks like you and me.
Though given the track record I don't blame anyone for being cautious.
Dogpiling someone for merely seeing something positive in this situation, like a chunk of furs did down in the comment chains below (or above) isn't okay though. I'm a little shocked by that. Granted, I shouldn't be, it's the furry fandom x-x
But yeah caution is totally reasonable but freaking out like chickens with our heads cut off and attacking eachother is... nehhh.
Totally with you on this!
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!
I always wonder what ridiculous choice you're going to make next, and I have to give credit where it's due - I never in my wildest dreams predicted this would be it.
ETA: You blockhead.
There's so much grey area, it's not funny at all. Fa could go down the drain as a result of this for all we know
I mean, if they decide to fire you or ignore your requests - in violation of the paper you supposedly have - what steps can you take?
Also, what areas are still in your control? Business model of the site? Private data of the user accounts? Ad space? Monetization on access to uploaded art? Because "Artistic direction" sounds as a very narrow domain - stuff like site aesthetics, and maybe, possibly the AUP on uploaded content, though that's a stretch.
In short: IMVU is the new owner of FA.
Also, way to go about your shilling of going all "we are now doing everything transparent guys!".
Way to kick and backstab your userbase and your fandom in the ass.
If you think they will buy you all shiny new hardware and invest in you without wanting something in return, you're mistaken, I'm more concerned about IMVU doing heavy datamining now, because you know, the add-business is a big and shady business.
Then all the donation drives and most recently the last "emergency DDoS-fund" with the perfect transparance on what's already bought and how much money is still being unused.
Really, it baffles me, like you, how some people can be this blind - but, to each their own.
Hopefully THIS is finally the drop which will cause the barrel to tip over and fall with people migrating to other websites.
I knew he was a shady and idiotic person, but THIS is something on a whole new level - like I said, he backstabbed the community here, more than once.
brb gotta go cry
So does this mean that they are going to overthrow FA and get rid of all the adult content just because they want to be fucking pricks?
Don't get me wrong, clean art is always nice to see. But some of us make a living on drawing adult art for people. =/
I feel like this might be the end of FA. IMVU is a death trap. I used to play it years ago and even back then it was shit. Its just gotten so much worse now. I wouldnt of just gave them the site like that Neer. You should of gone in as a partnership with you still as an owner. Because now they will take advantage of over ruling your opinions and changing the site for the worst. Spreading spam ad's all over the place like they have with so many other websites before.
This is rather depressing news. I was hoping with all my might this was just some kind of sick joke. But I guess its not.
I mean yeah it has it's ups and downs but if you think you can do better then do it.
But , above all I find IMVU to be a way better place then second life. I have played both, and found myself coming home to IMVU all the time.
And I believe it will be a step in a good direction for FA.
//Sips tea
Also, with so much exploitable code on both sites, they're a perfect match! :D
"transparency"
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.co.....e242433bf5.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.co.....e242433bf5.jpg
Stay classy, FA.
Section 3 of the DA Submission Policy states that "Artist grants to DeviantArt a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license" to reuse their works anywhere. Seeing that IMVU has profits to consider, what have you done to secure artist rights going forward to ensure that FA doesn't try to something similar?
Will they be like other sites and say they gain rights for any art posted on this website?
(a) Vastly underestimate how expensive it can be to maintain a website with the regular userbase that FA has.
(b) Asking Neer questions and then totally disregarding/not trusting what he's saying.
© SOMETHING'S CHANGING OMG FA'S DEAD NO REALLY WE MEAN IT THIS TIME
I don't use IMVU. I have no interest in it. And I am indirectly financially invested in FA for my own well-being (given the fur community has been 97% of my income for more than a decade) so the future of FA matters to me. I'm not blindly defending this decision. But how about, instead of instantly losing our minds over a decision that's been months in the making and is out of our control - Neer's not gonna return the $20k worth of hardware this partnership allowed FA to acquire because people are posting angry comments - maybe we should wait, hold our breath, and see how things work out?
Things COULD be better. Or they might not change at all. And if they get worse? I trust that all of the super smart people here who are telling Neer what a moron he is for doing this will ALSO be smart enough to open their own site that runs 10 times better. And that's only half sarcasm.
Honestly, guys. I know the flinch reaction is "CHANGE BAD", but can we please at least attempt some scrap of rationality here? I realize that might be a tall order, being the internet and all, but I have faith that many of you can do that if you try really hard.
And as for that, honestly? Are "Brown nosing" and "Pants-shitting panic" are the only options? I feel I fit in between; I'm not in love with the change, but I'm not cry-raging either. But if you're only giving me the choice between those two, I can't say I prefer to walk around with shit pants. You're free to though, if you want. :)
Don't argue with him, the Sith only see in absolutes.
People, including myself, aren't trusting of him for a reason, as you would know.
And you make people sound stupid as well, get out of here with that white horse crap and get down on the ground.
People know it takes resources to run a site and many people on here have shown time and time and time again, how willing people are to help if just the heads of FA would get their heads out of their asses and actually do shit to this site and stop going behind our backs like they just have done.
You're part of the problem, not the freaking solution.
We don't have all the information. We literally JUST got this news. People are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions and working themselves up over something that may or may NOT turn out to be a problem. Sure, things COULD suck. Like, a lot. But it's just as likely that we won't notice any difference at all. We don't know. THAT'S the thing. If a week from now after we get more info people want to rage and offer solutions, sure. Once we learn just what IMVU and FA have in their agreement and what IMVU can and can't control or say with FA, then I will fully support people getting angry. I just think to do so now isn't really solving anything, because the truth is we DON'T really know anything.
I never said I had the solution for anything. I just wish people would try to calm down and not instantly go on the offensive immediately, because THAT'S not a solution either.
-What's IMVU?
-What will happen now?
-What information do they have access to=
-Will anything change?
-Why weren't we told?
And the rage happening, is justified fear and speculations, from the many years of neglect, lies and backstabbing there's happened and as shown today continues to happen.
It doesn't help either Neer says: IMVU have ACQUIRED FA. Meaning they are literally in the simplest of terms, unless Neer used the wrong words, owns FA now and Neer are no longer in charger, which he himself have half admitted to, by saying that IMVU could technically if they wanted, override any of his decisions.
Everything being said and done in this Journal is justified and its only white horse people like you, who aren't asking questions for the betterment of the site.
I'm not defending Neer or his decision, and i have just as many concerns as a lot of people here. BUT! I'm waiting until we have a real, official TOS or some other detailed info as to what the deal specifically entails before I get angry. Many people may be working themselves up for good reason, OR they could be doing so for no reason.
I want the TOS up ASAP so I know what I should and shouldn't get angry about (which, in the end, could possibly be nothing). But until that's up, I personally don't see a point in going nuclear.
YEAH. People do that it's so obnoxious.
Like I have my concerns, believe me, but jumping to that is stupid. Also disregard anyone thinking that just because you don't have their opinion that you're somehow a brown nose, those people are just peons in their day-to-day life and wanna seem smart.
And if being a brown nose means I'm not jumping into an inconsolable rage at the drop of a hat? I'll accept that. Serves me right for trying to calm people down! ;^_^
I'm sorry they're doing that though, you aren't doing anything wrong. You were giving a different perspective and your views are grounded in truth, even if there's uncertainty ahead of all of us here! Don't let 'em get ya down tho!
I've seen sites come and go, and there's just as much chance that this will be "the beginning of the end" as it will be a sign of improvement, or even that we will notice nothing different 6 months from now and it will be business as usual. We don't know.
Personally, I'm holding out on the freak-out until I see an official TOS. I have concerns, but unless they're legitimized officially - rather than rumors and out-of-context comments, no matter how official the commenter - I'm not gonna go apocalypse mode just yet. I have enough stress in my life as is; I'm not gonna add this to it unless I have to. ;^_^
We really need some transparency and answers on this, though. Why was this decision made two months ago? What ARE the changes Neer keeps saying will happen? what defines "improvements"? Stuff like that, yaknow? It's always so vague when stuff like that happens and we never really get good closure.
no company or corporation wants to lose their investment, so they wont do anything that clearly jeopardizes that.
The only thing I could imagine is them clearing out all adult-themed material... if that happens this site will loose a great chunk of it's users. As much as Admins like to tell me otherwise this site's primirely function is to host porn and provide a place for artists to sell it to customers. That is the ONLY reason most people are on this site.
With themspending this much money, there has to be some sort of income for them, and likely much more then they spent - over a peroid of time. I am assuming premium accounts, print systems and of course - no adult themes to attract potentional sponsors. If this site is going to be another DeviantArt this site is ruined :P
tl;dr What the fuck are you doing?
As an artist I'm pretty concerned about them claiming rights to my work, or demanding a cut of my profits.
Sure, things are kind of cringy there, but at least you're not spending all your fucking money on an imaginary world with borked controls and at least they offer you something when you start up. The only thing I find cringeworthy about IMVU is some of the morons who use it. If they upgraded their graphics a bit and did some tweaking here and there, I don't think it could be all that bad as a program.
As for partnership? Eh. I couldn't care less. Nothing is going to change. Furries will still be furries, and people will still bitch and complain about every single little thing, whether it's good or bad.
Also in all seriousness I've never heard of IMVU before. They're something like second life, but without the smut?
Sounds like a great site to partner with, eh?
If so, I shall make a fortune selling virtual peens @w@
$5 p/month to use FA
$15 one time payment for the privilege of being a subscribed member of FA lol!
Artists are no longer allowed to sell art on FA without giving IMVU a percentage of their profit - Has anyone else thought about this? It could happen right?
This is what we have to look forward to as well
*buys 1000 Harddrives* and starts downloading
I find it telling that the thing that finally gets even the diehard supporters upset is "You mean now there are NON-FURRIES in charge???"
*shrug* This is just the latest in a long line of shady decisions. I don't know why anyone is acting surprised. Lots of us have been trying to tell you for ages now.
There's still Weasyl and Sofurry and Inkbunny, guys! Weasyl has the most FA like experience and the most artist support. I'd start there.
They even admitted they can be overridden, and if IMVU wanted to completely take over FA and make it their own personal IMVU offshoot for advertising and selling credits, they could. And there's nothing anyone could do.
This decision means artists may not have to worry about the rights to the work they've submitted here, now we have to worry about losing access to our accounts because we can't pay for "VIP access". We have to wonder, did Dragoneer literally make off with all the money from the donation drive, and the money from this sale, and is sitting pretty while the rest of us are sitting here losing our main access to commissions and artists.
I'm not happy. Of all the decisions, between Zaush, and the hacker given admin access, and the nepotism, and the secrecy, this is the worst. THE worst.
"Going forward, FA will continue to operate independently but with IMVU’s support and resources to upgrade our services. We can now work on improving our infrastructure, adding more storage, making performance improvements and improved coding support to reach our full potential. As a community member, the only difference you will notice is a better, smoother experience and increased functionality of the site as time goes on."READ THE JOURNAL.
Quoted by Dragroneer.
Decisions remain with me. Technically, [b]they could override it, but I did get it in writing I'd still have creative direction over the site.
There are no plans to change anything other than make improvements. [/b]
IMVU owns the site now, for better or for worse, and Neer can do nothing to stop them if they want to change anything about the site or the people working on the site.
READ THE JOURNAL.
FYI: IMVU can do whatever the fuck they want with this site because they own it now. They can fire all the staff and put their staff in place, and code in pay-walls onto the site if they really wanted to.
I can see good and bad coming from it, and think some might be reacting a bit too strongly in either direction.
The bit that concerns me is still the piss poor communication, and extremely targeted replies. Wanting more transparency and pulling this? Damn silly, especially considering you've avoided answering anything about that.
A benefit of this change needs to be on the communication front, since it should (inferring from the few answers you have given) allow you more time to actually get the website to function like it's not constantly years behind, and more time to plan and announce in general.
Will the Intellectual Property I post to this site remain my own? If not, I absolutely will not be posting, and I will remove my existing content, and post elsewhere.
KHAAAAAAANNNN! *dies*
The sheer fact that he has said that this is his job now should reflect that. He still DOES run FA.. IMVU plan to leave FA be (from my knowledge with an advertisement here n there ofcourse) and let it grow on its own. Nothing will change with FA as a core aside the updates that have been promised for all this.
Again no inside knowledge, just a high level of trust.
> acquired by IMVU
> January 2015
I normally don't really comment on news posts like this, but this...
I find it appalling... no, disgusting that you have waited TWO (2!) MONTHS to tell us that Furaffinity was ACQUIRED BY ANOTHER COMPANY.
Seriously this goes beyond your normal "We promise to be transparent but not really" bullshit you usually pull. This is something HUGE, and potentially catastrophic for the users of this site.
I demand to know in exactly what way this company have access to the Furaffinity user database (emails, usernames, passwords, etc), and if any of this data has been disclosed to IMVU or any of their partners, or if it will be at any point.
I also want to know if you will be implementing Facebook Connect, FB like buttons or any third party social networking features currently present on IMVU, and if so, when.
(yes putting your name here so you can find it using CTRL + F or whatever)
I really want to know whether or not I have to (and instruct all my friends to) remove their email addresses from this site, so that they don't end up having them sold to third party companies associated with IMVU.
*sad music*
But I hope that this really would help out FA and improve it's services.
lololololololololololololol XD Who am I kidding, FA is gonna become a victim of corporate scum where their income and filling up their pockets have more importance than the community it caters to.
I'M WILLING TO OVERLOOK YOUR PAST. FIX THIS.
not a fan of chat sites, glad FA will operate independently but shit bruh
Welp.
I'm gonna stay till the next AUP change, at least. Benefit of the doubt and all that.
If I se any changes i'm not entirely happy with.. Well, We had a good run.
hooray
we're be taken even more seriously now
/sarcasm
If I wind up paying any annual fee to continue maintaining a userpage here (let alone 3), that'll simply carve my nuts off with a rusty hatchet-blade. Also if these puppies opt to crack down further on various kinks, I'll be heartbroken. :(
FA was the most awesome site I've ever stumbled upon and in many respects, still is, even years later. However, its just like a great folk-singer once proclaimed:
♪"The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin’
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’"♫
The times really are changing for this site, for its users, its moderators, everyone, everything... and nothing.
Why botch a good thing any further?
Corporate enterprise?
Egotistic monetary gain?
Dominance in ownership?
Outsider's crooked suggestions?
Shoving a hot poker up the puckering asses of insubordinate doubters and anti-establishment rogue-users?
Or is this all just a massive hoax to get the pot stirred among the community and the fandom as a whole?
Man, I'm so keen to making a documentary on the evolution and progression of the anthropomorphic tirades, its not even funny.
How can I if (in the worst-case scenario) I'm deprived of the very thing in which I savor daily? Hourly???
Guys... I'm not saying you've sold out, not saying you've fucked up and not trying to prod the fire with a stick of nitrate.
I am, however, concerned that this may be a path to eventual decrepit anguish for many others.
Many, MANY others!
Prove me wrong. Re-assure me. Put a grin on this ol' shep-coon's mug, if you'd please. If not for my sake, for the sake of my fellow furry brethren. Fuck knows, we can use a little reassurance right about now. :/
...and ended up being sold like a cow.
Argumentum ad crumenam at it's best!
wait HOLD THE FUCK UP.
NO
NOT OKAY
NO
FUCK
looks like I'm taking a trip to watermark city
This is not okay.
But y'know. Ffffffurries.
I usually don't panic about FA updates, but this one.. I'm getting a terrible vibe, broski
You should read the journal again.
...
still super fuckin uneasy about this "update" though
I don't have a direct source, but I'm seeing a BUNCH of other people mentioning it.. which scares the living hell out of me
I really really do
Dragoneer's unwillingness to answer anything about this is concerning too. I've seen the question about this quote come up on the forums as well.
He just responded about it and it doesn't look good.
But I definitely agree with you!
and oh good the quote is real. this is bad. I don't fuckin agree with this
I'm on DA, Weasyl, Tumblr, and FA... and FA alone consists of 80% of my commission pool. If I leave FA, there goes a big source of what's helping me get through college :{
I don't have a direct source, but I'm seeing a BUNCH of other people mentioning it.. which scares the living hell out of me
I know I'm in panic mode, but for good reason
Eh, I trust DA a bit more than I trust IMVU...
I don't have a direct source, but I'm seeing a BUNCH of other people mentioning it.. which scares the living hell out of me
I AM NOT OK WITH THIS
I am both amused and think very negatively about the choice of business partner FA chose at the same time. I would also like to re-iterate that IMVU is a FREEMIUM based 3D messaging client that uses the mantra of "Oh you can use our place for free, but if you don't pay for adult verification and you don't pay to actually make yourself look decent, good luck having anyone even talk to you."
I wonder how the new overlords are going to take over and direct the site in the future. It's bad enough that FA hasn't got a single decent facelift in the entire time I've been using the site, and has more then once been taken down for over a week at a time due to DDOS issues or hardware issues. Yes, you just got a partner that can help fund updates, i hear that. But do you think for one moment, if you decide to update the site that they won't have a say in it? No. Because guess what, you just handed over the site to a group of people that don't give a shit about actually making their own website decent to go through.
I've used IMVU. Spyware issues ahoy batman. I had quite literally so many issues from just using their lackluster chat program it was uninstalled after two days, and I'd spent 30 dollars making an avatar not look like the base crap one and gave some different places a try. IMVU is terrible, their entire system is terrible, and I can't see that for a single moment they are going to just let you direct the site where you want it to go, 'neer.
I'm disappointed in the choice of partner here, but in a way I'm glad. I was looking for even more motivation in getting a part time to full time job, in order to possibly move away from working on commission basis with my art and I think this is just another push in that direction.
I can understand why you did this, I just wish you would have looked into much more reliable partnerships before handing the site over to a group that owns one of the least reliable most spyware loaded websites with one of the buggiest, worst freemium community based chat programs with terrible, TERRIBLE management over what the user created content is uploaded and what is actually functional.
I can't even get this to come out right, but I'm disappointed, amused, frustrated, and I'll be watching on in both fear and annoyance in the future with new changes and I've seen first hand just why blocking ads is in your best interest, and just how bad the product your new bosses created is.
*sigh*
So far I've seen three journals about it on my side... the number will go up. :I
Good bye cruel world.
IMVU has never been known to be particularly "good".
Then again, neither has FA.
So what is this, the 43rd time FA was "doomed" and you came back anyway?
When you are a full-time artist, you gotta take what you can get. :p
jkkkkkkk
So, IMVU now owns our copywritten content?
Good game, good game.
You could have sold it to furries! These people are NOT furries and they will not understand how are fandom works at all!
And they HATE PORN! This is bad, really bad! D:
You don't sell the most popular furry site to non furries!
Shouldn't you kind of... announce this not two months late?
I got bored...don't judge me for editing Skyrim quotes ;_;
TRANSPARENCY!
We believe you!
said no one ever
(and when he does) LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;A; *cries forever while molesting a milktank*
>Micropay or full paid accounts
>We'll all have to have IMVU accounts and USE THEM
>Tons of people are already "jumping ship" but they'll be back soon
>Dragoneer will never answer the questions regarding the donations that seem to have been all for nothing, or sidestep around them
>IMVU's promise of changing things "for the better" will mean better for them, not for us
>FA is well on it's way to self destruction
what will happen to FA if IMVU goes under
and can IMVU ever say they want the AUP to be changed, for instance, banning certain things?
Dragoneer's response: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44895062
DA got embroiled in this exact thing last year. And the internet's lousy with stuff like this anyhow. Remember Ebaumsworld? (not sure if that's still around)
Its this simple for me, the minute i start getting "censored" or hit up for cash to do things i could previously just do for free... GONESKI,..
Yes the ownership of FA did a "deal" and yes somone profited from it.. From the "spin" put on it, we are to believe it will be the community members who profit. ... Im not sold on that personally (shrug) each of us will have to figure that out for themselves and time will tell.
"FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive."
While I'm not sure how that could possibly be legal (you agree to this policy even if we change it, and all changes are retroactively true forever), it could very well mean that IMVU could change the Submission Agreement at any point to claim full ownership of all submitted intellectual property. Note that it does not matter if Dragoneer says he intends to steer this site still: he has admitted already that they have the ability to override him, and I'm going to bet they have more lawyers than he's aware of tying his hands.
I also am deeply concerned by the fact that community-led efforts to reclaim the site for the users, by the users, were ignored in favour of this laughable sellout. There is an army of potentially volunteer coders available to this site. Transparent donation drives could have easily supplied needed equipment/funds. Users have (claimed to have) made offers to buy the site out, admittedly for likely less than $20,000. But if Dragoneer was truly concerned for the site, and not simply his role in administering the community, these alternatives would have been much more desirable. Better to risk burning our own community to the ground than giving the matches to someone else. I cannot fathom this buyout will be a net benefit to any of the community, and I am shocked that it was done secretly, without even an attempt at transparency.
If this apparently happened in January, that means that nothings changed in the 2 months that it's already been Going on! Therefore, what reason do we have to worry?
Reason to leave immediately. This is stuff you have no right to do.
Where is this at....
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44895062
I wish he would honestly answer someone else in that string of comments, he didn't deny the posting or usage of artwork, he just stated that screenshots are allowed.
Why pick I think it was like computercivet or something like that on twitter that was willing to buy the website for $200,000 and secure you the highest seat on the board, when you can honestly just pick the trashiest microtransaction (more like macro) chat website there is.
"Come make your furry" wow jesus, more like come waste your money on this Dollar-Store Diet-Secondlife because we bought out FA, and gave them $20k worth of servers (apparently) for fucking adware.
Also great job on the beautiful transparency guys, because this sell apparently happened in January {from what I've heard} and they waited until now to say anything.
Also with this new partnership I'm guessing that gofundme wasn't really needed after all.
Just good job, you should be patting yourself really hard on the back right about now.
IMVU (Instant Messenger Virtual Universe) was definitely having problems back in 2006-2007, mostly around the "Adult Pass" program. I know this first hand because I was a part of their member volunteer team to gather in opinions and route them to the individuals for creation of new in-chat animations and those in charge for determining what was labeled as "adult" and what was labeled as "general".
Most of the issues that the team, users who were all asked to help by the IMVU staff to assist this section of the community, was that when we got overwhelming (quite near unanimous) response by the public (when questioned) on something to state that a particular item was "general" rated, it was phased into the Adult section the next update. Essentially a slap into the face of the Adult community. This happened on multiple occasions. There were even occasions of complete removal of content altogether without viable replacements and policies would change without any mention to the team so that the information could give a heads-up or even get an opinion from the community before it was implemented.
What I also had found out that these such problems happened long before my arrival and that there were prior teams set up just like the one I took part of, with little-to-no-avail. That being said, I am ashamed to say that those problems were never resolved during my time there and I eventually left to go onto those who were more cooperative (SL) in their virtual world interactions in late 2007.
Now with that said, I might still have an account there (each user has their own page, I don't know if mine still exists), but I doubt that FA will go unaffected by IMVU's rash decision making that it has had, or the possibility that FA can become "unprofitable" to IMVU very quickly, and thus be deemed either pay-per-view (as others have mentioned) or may just finally be done-in when that time comes. I do not know how it will go.
Dragoneer tries to make it sound like it's okay, that he still has a "leadership" or somewhat of a "management" role but in all reality,
he really just tried to put out the fire with gasoline.
so I guess now's the time to SAIL OUT h aYou'll be back. You're always back.
I've seen one person actually leave FA. One.
Let's face it, for every person that leaves FA about five make an account as the fandom grows.
Another thing that bugs me, is our personal information and the whole idea of "paid accounts for adult material on IMVU", I have taken the time to read through all the comments from dragoneer from on here and I've notice that.
1.He no longer owns the site ( biggest concern as im sure any other community will probably want you to register with them to access their new property for continued use)
2. He has stated nothing is planned on being changed but they CAN OVERRIDE THIS (another huge concern I havent seen an answer for)
3. he didn't tell anyone because...... I've got nothing.
All I am saying is, I make a bit of cash here, and met many many friends,my art helps pay my bills over time, for all artists (IM NOT SAYING THIS TO BE A DICK TO THIS SITE I ENJOY HERE) make a weasyl just in case, and try to get your support base back, a contingency plan is always a good idea.
Ｄｅｈｕｍａｎｉｚｅ Ｙｏｕｒｓｅｌｆ Ａｎｄ Ｆａｃｅ Ｔｏ Ｂｌｏｏｄｓｈｅｄ
No one has sourced this yet...
He's responded about it though and confirmed.
He says nothing about FA will be changing due to this and yet now anyone's artwork can be used "for ads".
What's stopping them for using it in any other way? How can we even trust that that's the ACTUAL truth?
And when were we ever going to be told about this? And why have we not been given the option to agree to this change or not. As current users we haven't agreed to a new ToS/SA about any artwork we upload being allowed for use of another company. Yet in the current Submission Agreement it states:
FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive. No submission shall be "grandfathered" in prior to any changes made to the SA.
EDIT: I certainly didn't agree to THAT in the SA when I joined back in 2009 /ENDEDIT
Yet we didn't even get the public news about this change because apparently it's been in affect for at least 2 months now.
It's just all a bundle of concern rather than one thing. This statement is like the straw that breaks the camels back.
this kind of clause exists on nearly every site which allows content upload, and nobody bats an eyelash
And by that, I mean raping it and fucking everybody who uses it.
I posted it originally to a furry LJ as something that I IMAGINED could be real and it just exploded.
https://twitter.com/DanzaDragon/sta.....41903933136896
just kidding. it'll simmer down soon enough i'm sure. thank you for closure!
;..;
THIS
that gave us all a place to call home real classy
I wonder if this is associated/linked with them being at Further Confusion earlier this year, in January.
You apparently don't know what this word means.
Please sit down and let the grown-ups talk, okay?
Time to update my anti-spyware :3c
Welcome to the internet, I hope you enjoy your stay.
>They will ban porn!!! they hate porn!!!!oneoneone
You'll run away either to Weasyl or to Inkbunny or somewhere else.
>Dragoneer sold us!!!!!
I accept it if you dont have a facebook account nor a google one nor account in any forum nor Twitter nor anything. They (over all Facebook) sell your data to third parties in a daily basis.
Otherwise it's a simple "so?".
>IMVU will be millionaires with our stuff! I wont allow that!!!!oneoneone
Then remove your stuff and leave. When you're being imposed something and you dont like it, then why do you stay?
>But... fA is the biggest furry site out there!
So? If you want to reach that audience, you'll accept their terms. If you don't like the terms, then go to some site that actually does. Why else do you have an account in -insert famous social network site here-?
Every single time anything is announced, without exception, there's an insane dose of drama, people threatening with leaving and everything comes back to the same status quo.
If you're so disappointed at dragoneer as you say, then be happy, dragoneer will have somebody else behind pushing him to do things. Maybe we'll even be able to have these improvements that we've waited for so long. If you arent, then stop crying and move on with your life.
1. Everything stays roughly the same, no major changes, move along.
2. The website becomes unusable or is disbanded entirely. The users go to a different website.
In either case, the situation will resolve itself and all this drama will be nothing but a dim memory of panic and outrage.
There's a saying that if a dog brings you a bone to be careful because he's probably looking to bring one back with him.
If FA sold out to IMVU, then there might be a catch. I just hope it's not a big one.
IMVU knows how to run servers, but they know how to run AD servers even better.
at least we'll see some real development here hopefully
Thanks for the update!
Oh, you're serious.
hmmm I sware its like I've been here before....
No company will pay you enough money to sue them successfully. Therefore, thier interpretation of a contract is always correct.
Here's hoping for the best. I don't want to have to leave FA for whatever reason. I really don't.
I used to use imvu for years, (my username was Lexi) and finally quit (about 2 years ago) because of how terrible it had gotten. I check back and it's even worse today. All the crap I had to deal with included:
Way too many advertisements
An infinite amount of even more ads in my inbox
Them constantly asking for me to upgrade back to vip after I left
Horrid customer service
CONSTANT THEFT OF MY WORK
CONSTANT DMCAS AGAINST THE PEOPLE WHO STOLE MY WORK
STAFF NOT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT IT
staff being constantly rude
Little kids completely taking over the place (ages 13 and under)
constant bitching and whining by little kids
They even perma banned accounts for tiny little mistakes that could have been easily fixed
Mistakes like an adult product being accidentally submitted as GA instead of Adult
Constant hacks on account
Even more theft of work, because some hackers made a dupe program (years ago, still being used today by tons of little kids and more hacks) that was MADE to literally rip the files and textures right off your account
And wow there's so much more but I'm just too angry to type it all
literally Imvu is the greediest, most annoying, ruined, and terrible website that went completely downhill and killed itself. I Fled to FA from imvu because it seemed like a better place where art theft and retarded ass staff wasn't such a big issue. Now it's going to be. Seriously considering quitting here now and going to weasyl (or any other fur website).
ugh
ugh
UUUGHGGHGHGG
Any sort of paywall, period.
and two; a ban or restriction on nsfw art. Im not gonna pretend I don't like it like others seem to, but its like, if that is gone I might as well just use DA only! Well, aside from the nice fursuit suit makers
but, so long as neither of those two things happen, i hope for the best!! I honestly dont mind the site how it is now, im not that picky, but so long as it doesnt become more complicated (to where it is just a pain to try and learn) i wont really mind too much
So, are we involuntary cashcows now?
Even though I'm not an active artist, I find this troubling...
... I know that keeping this place running costs a ton but honestly, this is pretty weird. I don't understand how they are planning to monetize this site to justify all the expenses. I guess they can try either with lots of ads, or premium perks or something, but I dunno if that makes enough profit to be worth the faff to a company that's doing business.
Somehow I'm getting the feeling that this will end up like every company Microsoft has ever bought. I.e. embrace, extend, extinguish.
But oh well, free services and all that. Can't really complain.
FurAffinity, to be perfectly honest, isn't the most profitable "furry" company around. To think that it can successfully merger with as strong a company as IMVU, without any backlash from executives, without any of their intervention, without their noses poking into FA's business, is very poor thinking.
I'm worried IMVU will swallow FurAffinity alive. Has anyone also brought up the very real fact that, if FA proves to not be a worthwhile venture for IMVU, the company has every right to resell, or even dissolve FurAffinity entirely?
I hope Dragoneer read the fine-print.
That's all I have to say.
I genuinely hope you talked to a decent lawyer about this.
Also strange how you're mentioning all these issues when this website has collectively paid you thousands of dollars for that...
Weasyl, SoFurry, InkBunny etc
Better alternatives! Leave while you can! Abandon the ship!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8
ITS HAPPENING!
Big businesses buy successful websites and/or games. It's a practice that's been done for a long time. Google bought Youtube, Amazon bought Twitch, as long as it's not EA that buys your stuff, you're pretty much settled. That's all.
It's not preventing artists from posting porn and it's not leaking personal information (than what we've already found)
--Onni
But the moment they change the ToS without letting anyone know then try to pull a "Well, we're partners now" type move is the day FA will fall. *dramatic colossus scene straight out of SoC.*
All seriousness aside, how will this affect posting of adult art?
Prediction: In 2 weeks we'll get a notification "Closing down, you have 5 days to save your content"
http://vj5pbopejlhcbz4n.onion.city/fa/vixus/
I do hope adult art could still be in it
...... Bravo, bravo
Absolutely not!
That's what every studio owned by EA has ever said.... Hell every company bought out by another anywhere....
You get their support, for a while... Till they want you in lock-step with their own corporate values. Then the hammer comes down.
you know as fa I know some countries allow the change but explicitely say the the "user" need to be informed directly (email, postcard, PM) and explicit say that he/she/them agree to become valid otherwhise default to rejected.
So this change could be ilegal in some places or legal on other, gotta know what could happend if some artist aoutside USA/UK decide sue for using they images in ads...
but well, unless that happend there is nothing that can be really know unless you are a lawyer or atorney.
>wait two months to tell everyone the site got sold off to IMVU
While I’m here and taking potshots: HEY ’NEER, HOW’S THAT NEW UI COMIN’ ALONG?
But we will wait and see how it goes
The only thing I read is utter shit about all that...
Come retreat to deviantART Blacky.
"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale."
I don't like the bit about 'reserves the right to redistribute content'... I don't want my content being posted elsewhere. It's stuff I paid for, or created. I and the artists should be the ones who decide when and where it gets posted.
May be time to nuke my gallery here.
So many artists will be screwed too...
If that is, in fact, the exact wording, it's disturbing, because despite whatever other assurances are given, the legally applicable truth is that it grants IMVU broad rights to the content created by, paid for, and then uploaded by users of FA.
They can say "We have no intention of doing that," all they want, but if that's the case, then why is it worded with such a broad concession of rights by the user? If it's only meant to be used for extremely limited purposes, then those few purposes should be explicitly delineated and explained to avoid an ambiguity or over-reach.
Assurances mean nothing, legally. They can be revoked and reneged upon at any time.
heck. imvu had made trigger music go from full length songs to 30 seconds. Screwed the shit out of all their community and didnt give one fuck about all the music people have bought that way. Seeing in that. This is just going to be bad.....
Have no idea what to expect, not really much of an active contributor, mostly here to support my friends. From what I gather from the comments this may end badly, for all parties involved; the world will hold the last say in the matter, a company would be more likely to preserve its corporate and public image.
I'll hold you've got a back-up in case things go to pot and the site gets wiped, but for now I'll wait and see how far down the chute this dynamite stick would go before it blows the foundations of this site to dust.
2. Modifications to this Agreement
[...]
2.2 - We may ask you to review and explicitly agree to a revised version of these terms. In this case, any modifications will be effective at the time of your agreement. If you do not agree, then you are not permitted to use our services and must discontinue using them immediately. In circumstances where you are not asked to explicitly agree, but are instead notified as stated above via site announcement, then the modifications will become effective fourteen (14) days after being announced.
This makes me really worried as an artist here....
Sincerely, thank you for your service and I appreciate the environment you've supplied for all of us, and I respect your need to do business and continue business however is most sensible. Hopefully we both fit in each others' futures, but I'll make sure not to let the door hit my backside on the way out if that's not the case.
I agree with this!
If IMVU actually makes FA better then great, but I have a feeling IMVU is just going to go ahead and ban a bunch of "undesirable" art and kill everything like FA did with cub art.
I give it 2 months.
The website is fine and all but is more for anime fans and such,the furry community there was much smaller than Second Life. Wouldn't it make more send to have Second Life own FA if you're going that route?
The markets are not quite the same and what if IMVU decides FA is no longer profitable? They may try to shut the site down. I don't really understand why you have a website go from individually owned to company owned also.
IMVU is a fairly large company but not one thats been shown to be really community driven. I really hope this isn't going to end badly. Also IMVU has kind of lost popularity over time? It was much more popular in 2006-2008ish.
Iam a bit worried
Brett G. Durrett, CEO of IMVU: "Another problem with the push for realism is the individual need for self-expression, which requires avatar customization beyond what most companies can deliver and often beyond reality (an animal, vegetable or dog toy)".
Heh, starts to make a bit of sense now.
Chief Executive Officer
Source: http://www.imvu.com/about/
-Here is an article he wrote about how he wants virtual reality to continue improving so that it, "being a solitary experience" , becomes popular.
-This is his LinkedIn profile that shows the companies he's worked for if anyone wants to take a look into their background.
-“We monetized through highly retained, long-term users,” said Brett Durrett (pictured), chief executive of IMVU, in an exclusive interview with GamesBeat.
-Another blog post Brett wrote expressing more of his opinions.
...Although.
Would be reallllly nice to get a full press release from IMVU stating that FA will be run by FA with IMVU support....just for our peace of collective mind...
There is no Support.
They OWN FA.
This is horrible since IMVU has a strict NO ADULT CONTENT, which FA artists run off of, sadly.
Or rather IMVU requires you to BUY an adult pass, which doesn't even unlock true adult content, just "mature" clothing like corsets.
So no, it's not awesome.
FA is not IMVU.
Disney owns Marvel.
Marvel is not Disney.
Same principle, I bet.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMVU
Thanks for single handedly DESTROYING what we, AS A COMMUNITY, have built here.
You did this for money and nothing else because, lets face it, I left IMVU is the dust over 5 years ago and I still never went back.
It's a shitty program and an even shitter 3D simulator.
So, was my favourite quote states:
"Shit.....there going the neighborhood."
Thank you. *slow claps*
Yo I just came here to read Scoopicus' comments doe. So that part doesn't surprise me.
IMVU does not care anything about the customers, and they NEVER listen to them except maybe ONCE in the six years I've been there. legit.
And to know they now have a hand on FA? Good lord. They can barely even update their own crap , and when they do , it's TERRIBLE additions NO ONE ever asked for but claims everyone did.
They're greedy.
I'm also sick and tired of hearing SL is better comments - A lot of people can't even run SL , me included , and it's annoying as hell when no one asked what you think is better. :l
I've read the requirements and IMVU is more processor heavy.
Also, SL is better.
You don't have to be a license to unlock certain content.
You can move around AT WILL, without having to rely on poseballs,
The furry avatars look WAY better as well. :/
IMVU refuses to do certain things SL people are used to because it wouldn't be as easy to run for people then.
And personally, I don't like a lot of avatars in SL. They look creepy as hell, but all of that isn't important and all just matter of opinions.
I favor IMVU over SL , but IMVU as a partner is terrible choice. IMVU is all about greed , and for anyone who believes they're just gonna 'update' the FA system or whatever bullshit excuse is given out of the kindness of their heart is blind. ~_~
And that's where my problem lies.
Granted it's a style, but come on, Kemono style makes furries look like Nekos.
IMVU has improved each year of their avis , new meshes are added constantly for developers to derive from for unique designs, not to mention the fact there's plenty of scalers that's very cheap that helps you even further customize to your liking.
But like I said, debating what avatars people favor is not only endless , but not needed. This is not what this topic it's about. No one's going to be forced to use IMVU's client if they don't want to.
The only concern is how terrible their customer support is and how damn greedy they are.
I don't think anything uploaded here will be effected (So that's not an issue either , really) , but i do wonder what will be implemented that will have a price tag added to it. ~_~ Anything that makes their pockets bigger , they're usually all over it.
I want to see how things pan out.
I have been an IMVU user for years. I have never had a single positive outcome that I can tell a story about when it comes to customer service. I would never leave IMVU, but I can say that it gets frustrating because -Fact- IMVU puts customer needs, input, feedback, etc on the backburner, if your problem is resolved at all.
If you are an IMVU community member, you will know that this is truth.
Report for an inappropriate display picture? 9/10 times, it will be removed and you receive a warning without the content even being viewed.
Harassment issues are rarely addressed, the blocking system is useless.
There is confusion on whether of not they actually WANT adults to BE adults there, since they cater more to pulling in new business rather than keeping the loyal users who they have had for years.
But yet, I enjoy the site as I said. These are faults that either you accept, or you just stop using it, like anything else.
But it's a factor of importance to understand how a businesses customer support really works when a situation like this happens, because you never really know in the long run how this merging will really work out.
;P
but many with IMVU. :l
I shouldn't have to use added things for a program to run smooth enough to even make it work, it should be like that on default.
And yeah, IMVU users have the option to buy things for more content , but overall the expenses are cheaper so it doesn't really matter to me.
And like I said, this isn't a debate on which people think is best , and that's all people are bitching about. ~_~
Even though this is way off topic to begin with.
IMVU + FA + (due to the graphic nature of this content, we have changed this additive to... ) Michael Vick= MAJOR ABOMINATION TO SOCIETY
OH DEAR GOD, THE IMVU FAGS ARE COMING!!!
Mom, pack ya bags! We're gonna get you on a plane and go to Florida!
We'll keep the IMVU abominations out.
You know, border patrol and all. :V
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the Govfurnment
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you
I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the yiff oozin' out
From your internet
You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help . . . no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold
That's right, folks
Don't touch that URL...
Nothing is free.
Anyone?
Just me?
Weird.
You know what, screw the hookers! I'll just make my own production company!
GG
*grabs a beer and waits for the fire to begin*
Dis' gonna be good.
Being transparent, this decision would have been told/announced as soon as possible, not a few months later.
2)Aside from, why on earth is Neer trying to reassure and generally say "nothing will change"? You can't say that since you signed over the rights. You can't really dictate what will or won't change. You have a say in it but you aren't the final voice anymore.
3)Anyone know if there's a mobile ad block?
Tl;dr of this whole journal
Neer sold rights to IMVU, a pretty much 2nd rate of Second Life that doesn't even have poseable player models, back in January. Of course we're only hearing about it now because transparency. Most comments are users face palming at this decision, asking questions, pointing out how badly this may (and probably will) end badly given some notable distinctions between FA's rules and IMVU's along with some other things.
Also dildos.
Time will tell if it's pointless for me to keep maintaining my personal stylesheet for this site.
It sounds to me more like FA is just gonna continue doing what its doing, but use IMVU's money to do it instead xD In which case I say, well done FA.
Honestly the only changes that I could possibly think that would piss me off is if they fuck with the advertising... The last thing I wanna see is more "targeted advertisment" by major companies that would stomp out the user-focused, made, and run ads.
IMVU has proven to be a terrible company. They don't care about their customer's safety (their partner offers are often full of viruses, and they're partnered with Conduit, well known malware.) They police 18+ content despite it being 18+ content, yet sell access to it anyways. They often ban users for no apparent reason, and they consistently bite the hand that feeds them (creators) by raising fees and restrictions for creating content that they make money off of.
They perform "experiments" in which they raise or lower prices for individual users without their consent.
IMVU is a sinking ship that people abandon constantly.
Even if IMVU changes nothing about FA, it's one of the worst companies to partner with. Gaia would be a better partner, even.
I do not know the history of IMVU. It's never been of interest to me at all, and it's never been relevant in my representation of the Minnesota area of this fandom. So keep that in mind here that I am an observer and what I say is more of an analytical nature.
I hear the talk of lots of ad spamming and being very "non adult", but whether or not that part of the business model transfers to FA remains to be seen. Certainly making the website, "pay to view" for adult artwork would kill the site entirely since FA is not a monopoly on adult artwork and many other "free" choices are available.
I do feel like homework hasn't been duly given, and perhaps some of this widespread negativity to IMVU should have been considered. Certainly there are many who like IMVU but the fact that so many in this fandom have strong feelings against it should point towards this being a bad business decision on both parties. This is a polarizing issue and risks the stability and viability of the Fur Affinity website and any positive (dare I say) brand recognition.
In short, if I was FA or IMVU, I would be very concerned right now and hoping this is just another example of, "give it a few days and it will blow over".
The vibe i get from IMVU is that theyre all about the dosh, which means they wont hesitate to shut the site down when they wont get their desired results. And if that happens i can only hope all the artists out there have their pictures backed up and are ready to migrate to a new site.
I will not judge neer for what hes done (after all, i cant tell why he did it. Who can objectively?). But what i am judging him for is who he sold it to. Shit man, you cant talk about a huge furry community on their side when 99% of the furrys here ask what imvu even is. Lets face it, very few people here know it and even less (if any) like it.
Selling the site to cover the bills might look good on paper, but did He have to choose the first one coming his way? Couldnt he look for a better buyer?
FA has always been flawed, and a bit behind the times, but i still prefer it to the superior alternatives, simply because of how many people use it. Itd be a heavy strike against the fandom to see this page die, no doubt the community would split up.
I was always ready for some stupid or terrible stuff to happen on FA. But seeing this page being sold out like that? My body was not ready for this. Worst case scenario, no porn allowed. And im not the only one knowing that fa would survive without porn as long as a fish would without water.
Those are my 5 cents to this entire affair.
Yes, this is a big change. It's got potential to hurt FA. But it also has potential to help the site in a very big way. The main problem with FA has been, for many years now, that the site is too big to be run in the current semi-volunteer fashion. FA needs major overhauls to bring it up-to-date, and we've seen those overhauls weren't going to happen the way the site existed and was run. Now, that might actually happen.
On the panic about IMVU owning your submissions... no, they don't and won't. It's standard boilerplate you see in the terms of use for every single site for uploading your content, dA included.
On the panic about IMVU shutting down the porn... no, they almost certainly won't. FA is now owned by IMVU, it's not IMVU itself.
Overall: stop panicking. People are assuming the worst all over the place, with no evidence whatsoever that their doomsday scenarios are likely or even possible. Let's wait a bit and see what's going on. Considering that IMVU has, apparently, been involved since January, and the sky has not yet fallen, I doubt it will fall at all.
The most amusing thing is that IMVU has been involved for a couple of months now, and nobody has noticed anything, yet now that people are aware of it, it's INEVITABLE DOOM RIGHT NOW NOW NOW!
I'll be watching this development carefully. As always, the devil's in the details.
Hopefully, things will go well.
It feels like the wrong match if anything and a hasty choice and from what I can tell this is not going down well with the community. Again, I think a vote or probing the community of FA would've been the first course of action here, not just suddenly releasing a statement going "oh hey, we sold out to these guys several months ago without you knowing about it".
I don't know, I hope that this might actually help things, that the website gets updated, better maintenence, better support. Though at the same time I'm kind of dreading what might happen.
Those are my two cents anyhow.
How many people on here even USE imvu? I mean seriously? IMVU!?
Lets have a few moments to hang our heads as all our "Mature" or "adult" art is deleted by imvu and reduced to nothing but General Audience.
Where was our vote?
So long and thanks for some of the porn.
This could only go in a really bad business direction.
If anyone thinks that IMVU isn't going to impose its will here, I don't see that happening.
After all, a merger is where two companies join each other due to many different things.
So why in the world are we joining IMVU?
It's a garbage site.
http://imgur.com/rRkmaWc
I've never heard of IMVU. I just post drunken snippets of writing on here (have for years) and all of a sudden an announcement tells me there's an ownership shift.
If you've ever played 'Echo the Dolphin' it's a perfect example. Something doesn't feel right in the sea. Something has changed. The ocean seems the same when the game begins but there's a spookiness, a looming alien presence with uncertain consequences.
Granted, myriad comments have probably influenced my opinion (I'm wasted too) but I'd like to think I'm sharp enough to cut through some of the bs even so. Societies and business mergers in general are shrines to that old coin-counting demon we call capitalism, rely on constant expansion and growth, so the question everyone should really be asking relates to profitability.
Is FA profitable enough in its current state? Does it have enough strength in the eyes of its new owner to grant expected revenues after the initial cost of acquisition or not?
If not, brace yourselves. If yes, this is all Chicken Little.
I don't have the facts. I know the facts of life pretty well though. It would be self defeating of the new 'overlords' as some of you call them to fundamentally alter this site because then most of us would hate it and leave, yet I won't discount a subtle campaign over time that attempts to turn the place into a satellite of a world most of us don't know (or want to know).
As always the future is uncertain.
IMVU is pretty dumb to begin with and Second Life is 1000x better in so many ways. The fur community makes up a large percentage of Second Life users but not near as much as in IMVU (because less people use IMVU in general ((and for good resons)) ). SL will be releasing a new viewer later this year with even more features and abilities one of which including the support of the Oculus Rift.
There are plenty of artists on FA that upload content geared for SL such as new avatars and apparel. How is IMVU going to feel about this?
Either way, though SL would make a better fit for FA but I'm not sure I'd want them joining each other either. Sure there is an overlap but it's one small chunk out of a giant mammoth. SL and FA should not merge for this reason alone and yet it has been sold to a less successful competitor with a lower amount of account holders that identify themselves as furries.
This is the only site my ADBlocker is turned off for. I'm sure that will change when we start getting swapped with ads from a company that has and will continue to have less and less supporters of its services. Once SL2 comes out, IMVU will be pretty barren. I didn't think people were talking about it even now.
What's going to happen when IMVU is dead in the water?
If FA was sold to O'Reilly's Auto Parts we wouldn't have to worry about this but they might want us to change our oil with them more. Still, there's little in common with FA and O'Reilly's but you could argue that there are a handful of furries that work for O'Reilly's just as there are a handful of furries that use IMVU. At least O'Reilly's would be more financially secure and straight forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aegP8j5al0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSzrZcIxdU
For people who don't care about moving around, but just like simple animations and talking, imvu is fine. You still have all the customization options of what your avatar should wear. Imvu used to allow the use of adult material such as always erect genitalia and so on so forth, due to its user base at the time, it was removed. It still has some adult content where as you can equip yourself but the program is not advertised towards over sexual people. And is seen more as just a hang out.
Second Life, for people who like to mod things and love their more indepth customization options. To resize all proportions of their avatars and really like to use 3D software. Then yes, if you like that sort of thing then this is the right program to use, its furry community is no different then imvu's. People say it looks better, for people who like movement and flow in their chat programs, sure. Doesn't make it better.
So...either way, you have to spend money to use either of these programs the way you want too. And depending on where you live, neither option is cheap.
Dragoneer went with what he thought would be a better partner, should he have asked the community hear which they would have preffered, maybe, but it would still be the same bs that is going on in this thread/journal right now. Does it matter at this point..nope...So as far as that goes, everyone is welcome to their opinion and to express as such. This is my 2 cents, since no one so far can explain either program.
they are a company who has to make profit goals or will fail in the stock market. They gave FA a shit load of hardware and even software support, and neither of those are free. They have a reason to be doing this, something is going to change.
If they supposedly had the site for 2 months, why is the only thing I've noticed a crazy ad at the bottom of the page?
Also, they probably aren't going to change everything at once. You haven't noticed any changes this year, like the notes changes and editable comments either?
Despite quite a few people outright leaving FA and all the drama I stuck with it because it was easy to use and doesn't swamp me with ads and millions of poorly coded sidebars and boxes. Though with all the really annoying ads I've seen for IMVU the move to something like Inkbunny or Sofurry are starting to look appealing, it's getting kind of annoying whenever something happens and half the people I watch decide to wipe their art and leave. >= Y
1) You don't address DIRECTLY and CLEARLY about intellectual property, there are a lot of people here concerned about this topic and hardly any answer about it. Please put it in red and in bold letters, edit this journal, etc etc.
2) Having this deal on the table for 2 months without saying anything. (Maybe even more if we consider the fact there had to be some sort of prior negotiation.)
3) you didn't Address the plain obvious concerns about donations... why are we not presented with some sort of proof that you actually used that money to purchase hardware? I don't know... you are saying oh yes this was expensive and also some hardware coming over... but you never stated about how much and for what was invested on (models of hardware pieces, receipts and tickets of payments done, etc etc). Why am I saying this now? Because you sold your business and made us donate its about LOYALTY to your community and making us understand.
Dragoneer by hiding information or being vague in the way you release information you just help the missinformation circles and people to prey and eat out of that. Yes people is gonna blame you for everything, but that doesn't mean you have to announce something this important like this.
I know maybe not much is going to change and if it does I hope its for best but thanks to the way you release something this big with all this tiny and scattered bits of information just made me feel lost and sceptical about all this.
And even though I know you WON't show it... I would love to see a copy of the contract/agreement both parts signed, that way we can learn how much did Ferrox Art LLC received in exchange for FA.
At the end I guess "its just good bussines"
I'll only flip shit if they make it a requirement to own an IMVU account and merge it with your FA, or if they start implementing subscription services and bother users to no end about signing up for one.
Still, nice transparency though. Didn't even think to give your users a heads up, 'Hey IMVU is interested in buying FurAffinity and we are seriously considering their offer'? Good to see you still care.
Literally the only change to my 'experience' in the past couple of months is the unwanted disappearance of titles/authors/descriptions on gallery and submission pages viewing on my mobile device.
I mean shit...all they added that's "new" is the notes system and the ability to edit comments.
Just waiting for the new BadDragon artsite to be up and live already. :/
Going to start migrating to Weasyl for the time being.
or at least one of the reasons
... Just in case 'Neer has some smarts left.
Well if you wanted to kill the site... you sure as hell chose the best way to do so.
Doesn't sound like this was done correctly. Could you explain what the clauses were in the acquisition contract that handled this situation and what the agreement was if they'd violate the terms?
On one hand, I understand the need for extra support in improving the site and selling to a larger company would certainly help.
On the other hand, IMVU? Really?..
So, I shall remain neutral.
I still like this site, but I'll admit I'm disappointed.
Please clarify the hierarchy and agreement of purchase. This isn't a mere merger it is a buy out. or in Fa's case a sell out.
Wow fa are a bunch of sell outs. XD who knew....
Bye, Felicia.
I suspect it is the following:
1) Because the 'alternatives' are not sufficient to bother migrating to.
2) Possibly the majority of FA users don't know or care about FA drama since they're still able to do business as usual.
God, I hate the shit out of you.
Wait; what?
Also, what happened to Zaush being the new coder of FA2.0? I guess drawing balloon head animal chicks with small tits instead of coding really paid off.
:2
"OMG THEY MIGHT BAN STUFF!!!"
"OMG THEY MIGHT PUT MORE ADS!!!"
"OMG THEY MIGHT STEAL MY INFO!!!"
Y'all sound like a bunch of 'the internet is scary' soccer moms being introduced to facebook.
Play along with me here, and assume that for whatever reason, FA did really still need the money. If they had done another donation drive like that, would people just give up more money happily with a smile? It seems more like Dragoneer was stuck between asking a big company for money, or asking a community (which apparently hates him) for more money. I think he made the right call.
I dnt even know what
to say about all of this
lol
Shame on you.
Dis Gun B Gud! :U *sits back and noms some popcorn*
He then started discussion of creating his own site, which lost nearly all the support it had when instead of building that site, he made a 'fuck artist's rights over their own work' chan board which ultimately became e621 (now under new ownership, who have added a more artist-respectful dnp list).
It's highly unlikely Arcturus has any legitimate claim to even partial ownership of FA other than maybe he bought some of the hardware they were using back in the site's first year or two. If he did, he'd have made noise about it before this.
But he hasn't had a hand in ownership or management of FA since the site's early days. He HAS had his hand in a great deal of the hacks/attacks against the site, though.
Regardless, yes, it's very dubious that with his long and loud history of being anti-FA, this claim of partial ownership happens when the place is sold. I dunno, it's not impossible though, maybe he has some claim to it, I guess we'll see. I really think it's just an ass-pull, though.
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA "
Then why did IMVU buy it?
How do they make money off it?
Advertising.
> How do they make money off it?
Advertising.
Don't ever lose your spark, whoever you are.
Obviously I will have to tell them over IMVU but that's fine.... Just fine
Also what about the site upgrade? Does this mean Zaush works for IMVU now? Or was he just kicked from the project and the reigns handed over to them?
Dragoneer is purposely avoiding some legitimate concerns on all the journals concerning the future of this site.
For now, I will be removing FA from my trusted sites on no script and strictly watching all scripts that go into this site.
See Dice and Slashdot.
Now you have, you're welcome!
Most of the time changes do happen with an acquisition.
My point remains valid.
Apparently, you're an authority on this topic when you haven't even heard of a single instance of it happening.
> My point remains valid.
One of your points was that you never even heard of one. So, I gave you one.
Just recently, sony online entertainment got sold and became daybreak entertainment, several people got fired the first week. Among which were the producer, lead artist and lead programmer for landmark and ever quest next, as well as several planetside 2 and EQ 2 employees, that are known so far.
Lets see, when google bought youtube, I think the changes over the years speak for themselves there.
Any time EA games buys out an IP or an entire game company major changes always happen, usually for the worse. Take what they did to the dungeon keeper franchise for example. They ripped off another mobile game, and made it's pay wall for being able to progress one of the worst that's ever been seen in gaming, even by mobile game standards.
EA games alone I can list example after example after example of companies they absorbed and made changes to who worked for them and how their future games came out and how they did things and basically are a plague on gaming. I hate BF4. :P
Another example is when quaker oats bought out snapple and it ended up being a huge failure after just 3 years and was sold for 300 million to Triarc beverages. Snapple was huge in the 90's, all it took was quaker to run it for 3 years and make it fail and have to cut their losses for a a pathetic 300 million, which corporately speaking for a major brand name, is chump change. That's a pretty drastic example of changes.
Skype was originally bought out by ebay, then was later bought by microsoft for 8.5 billion where they basically fused it with msn messenger. Skype has been getting better lately with features like multiple people viewing one screen share. But I noticed over the years the program was just getting worse and worse compared to how it used to be and for awhile I exclusively used team speak because I found skype to be laggy as hell. I can't imagine there were no layoffs during all this buying and selling either. But I can research that too since you seem so desperate to be "right" here.
If you honestly don't think that changes never happen with mergers or acquisitions, I'd have to say you're pretty damn ignorant, no offense.
I can go on all day making a huge list of examples to prove my point more and I'm pretty sure the massive list I can pull from google would outweigh your list of acquisitions where zero change was made. But I'm pretty sure at that point you'd be trolling me to waste my time.
Unfortunately the information you provided isn't really relevant from my perspective.
> *examples*
I noticed your examples have a common pattern, they're fortune 500 companies, they didn't declare they would not change much and little and very few of them had little to do with user generated content or user community. Perhaps the most relevant example you have is YouTube, but again, Google never declared they wouldn't modify it. IMVU does not fit any of these criteria.
Note: I didn't know Quaker Oats, so I tried to inform myself on them. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any decent documentation on the Quaker Oats matter in a short time span that identified their firm size, the companies house (Quaker Oats Ltd - company number: 64262) documentation about the merger was virtually non-existent too.
> If you honestly don't think that changes never happen with mergers or acquisitions, I'd have to say you're pretty damn ignorant, no offense.
I can point to the fact that the example I provided to you off the top of my head involved a community around FA's size, user created content and it's ownership is another SMB about the size of IMVU too while promising not to dictate significant changes to the user base without the consent of certain responsible people at the time.
> I can go on all day making a huge list of examples to prove my point more
Your examples have been pretty poor thus far, so I don't think it makes your case at all. I would argue that you are displaying your own ignorance in the matter.
> you'd be trolling me to waste my time.
I'm not interested in trolling you.
I don't see how fortune 500 companies are not relevant here, the principle is the same, why would they put money into this if there's absolutely no way they can make a profit? To gain a user base off fa? Through ads on fa? That makes n sense. You haven't really proven my points and examples are poor, you merely stated big vs small, but didn't point out why that even matters. The point you seem to be missing is, if a company thinks they can make money, they will buy or invest. If they buy, it usually means they want control over their investment.
Also, where did IMVU say no changes were going to be made? Did you see the contract? I only saw Dragoneer say this and he could be flat out lying and leaving out many details.
Your "perspective" is nothing more than logical fallacies.
Those examples that you stated, why did they buy them out then? You're telling me they just handed these examples money and asked for nothing in return other than maybe ad space and being able to call themselves the owner? There must have been some catch.
The major inconsistency I and many others are trying to point out is without making changes, what does IMVU stand to gain? Why would a strictly none porn company suddenly want to buy a site that's largely about porn? I just doesn't make sense. Why would they want to be the owners if they trusted enough that things were running fine they way they are? None of it adds up.
The way a fortune 500 company is ran verses a SMB is massive. It even goes down to legal issues and what shareholders expectations are (if it's a publicly traded company).
> Also, where did IMVU say no changes were going to be made?
Well you see, there is this employee for IMVU that has been telling us this stuff to begin with. I believe he joined IMVU in January 2015.
> Your "perspective" is nothing more than logical fallacies.
I don't think so, it's clear to me that you have been so far been reaching for straws to explain away your posts. I don't care too much if my opinion is invalidated and will gladly admit when it is so. However, there is nothing here that has invalidated it thus far.
> why did they buy them out then?
In reference to Dice, I believe it was the strategic fostering of existing user community to target advertising, no real interest in changing the site significantly.
> You're telling me they just handed these examples money and asked for nothing in return other than maybe ad space and being able to call themselves the owner?
Dice actually did more than that over the years, but yes, nothing further was necessary in return. The site did go through some changes, but they would have happened regardless and were expected before it was bought.
> The major inconsistency I and many others are trying to point out is without making changes, what does IMVU stand to gain?
I'm happy to admit that I don't have a clue what they think they're going to gain, I have a few positive and negative theories though at the top of my head.
> Why would a strictly none porn company suddenly want to buy a site that's largely about porn?
To my knowledge, FA is largely about being an inclusive furry community art site. I will admit, I also don't know how much of FA is porn and how much isn't. I don't believe FA:U even allows adult content really since it requires a "PG" rating in all public spaces, for a 'porn company', that doesn't make much sense, so I would argue that FA is not a porn company any more than IMVU is. They both have porn content.
> Why would they want to be the owners if they trusted enough that things were running fine they way they are?
As stated before, I came up with scenarios quickly off the top of my head. That said, I don't really care to speculate here because too many people are taking speculations as fact.
I just don't see why they bothered "fostering" dice, you say it's a small community, how much money did they really gain from advertising? Doesn't make much sense, honestly.
You don't seem to be presenting any logical reason why IMVU would just leave things as it is, and where did you see this employee state these things supposedly? Why not conjecture if you seem to have all the answers then? Just state they're conjecture, if people take it as fact you can't be held accountable for it now can you?
You're points are completely off base, I don't even feel we're remotely on the same page and you seem to be missing the point of my concerns completely.
You seriously don't think there's that much porn or that much money made in porn on FA? REALLY? Okay fine, lets compare favorites and likes with popular artists then, those that have zero porn, and those that have a lot. You will find the porn artists always have more watches overall. They always get more faves. They always get more comments. They commission value is much higher than a none porn artist, it's stupid how much money popular porn artists make. Just look around you, how can you honestly not have noticed the amount of porn and how lucrative it is?
I'd like to know you theories, I honestly don't see what the harm could be since you like to act like you have all the answers. Enlighten me, please.
Because so far, you've giving me baseless facts and trying to dismiss everything I say based on nothing but what's honestly been your opinion and focus on things that were besides the points I've been trying to make and focusing too hard on the literal implications of my wording that were honestly irrelevant.
Dice bought Slashdot.
> you say it's a small community
Actually, I said:
"I can point to the fact that the example I provided to you off the top of my head involved a community around FA's size, user created content and it's ownership is another SMB about the size of IMVU too while promising not to dictate significant changes to the user base without the consent of certain responsible people at the time."
> You don't seem to be presenting any logical reason why IMVU would just leave things as it is
My reasoning much like your reason is that other companies have done it.
> where did you see this employee state these things supposedly?
Dragoneer is an employee of IMVU, dear.
> Why not conjecture if you seem to have all the answers then?
I already stated:
"I'm happy to admit that I don't have a clue what they think they're going to gain, I have a few positive and negative theories though at the top of my head."
I also think this is an attempt to evade the point of my posts through the use of
> You're points are completely off base
No, I'm just not interested in discussing existential fallacies, divine fallacies, raising the bar, argumentum ad lapidem and even what could be an attempt at argumentum verbosium. I also find your previous uses of ad hominem to be fairly representative of how you perceive anyone who disagrees with you.
I am arguing against your use of cum hoc ergo propter hoc, where I have simply identified that there are cases where this does not happen, following identical cum hoc ergo propter hoc logic.
> I don't even feel we're remotely on the same page and you seem to be missing the point of my concerns completely.
I do apologize, I will make it clear that I wasn't particularly addressing your concerns, I was pointing out the fallacy in your argument and how that identifies that you are not all knowing in this matter. I don't believe you really know the true destiny. However, I am growing weary of this now.
> I'd like to know you theories
I am going to be frank with you. I'm not interested in moving off-topic on this particular thread, I don't want my speculation to be taken as fact and I quite frankly prefer to discuss the finer details about these things with other friends orally.
> I honestly don't see what the harm could be since you like to act like you have all the answers.
Yes, because apparently saying things like these mean I have all the answers:
"I don't think it makes"
"I don't think so"
"I'm happy to admit that I don't have a clue"
"I have a few positive and negative theories "
"I will admit, I also don't know"
> Because so far, you've giving me baseless facts
I have given sufficient information for comparison I believe.
> based on nothing but what's honestly been your opinion
Actually, I based it on your own argument by highlighting opposite data, so no, not particularly my opinion, but your own argument as well. Identifying things like a pattern is not an opinion, it is, or it isn't. Identifying companies doing certain things either are or are not. I don't believe I have misleading at all based on what is a belief, what is a fact what is an opinion/thought etc. If you feel that your points are weak against opinions, you might want to validate them.
> I've been trying to make and focusing too hard on the literal implications of my wording that were honestly irrelevant.
I would beg to differ, this is a text environment the "literal implications" of your wording are all that matter here. It is quite simply the only reasonable way to convey meaning, information and so on.
I never claimed to know all the answers and we're just going in a pointless circle.
My concern is there's no concrete answer and tbh, Dragoneer is not a good enough, because he has every reason to lie to us and with hold information, you're just putting too much faith in Dragoneer and what you've seen from other examples.
You failed to show relevance to anything that I was talking about and openly admitted you didn't even try and you're admitting that you're just splitting hairs and basically ignoring my concerns, so this has just been you trying to dismiss me, nothing more. It's what you've been doing in all the comments.
I conclude, you're a fanboy, and a troll that is trying to act like an intellectual using big words you looked up online.
Final conclusion. You're full of shit, you're just blindly defending this whole thing, you're a troll and I'm done talking to you.
You did claim I did, but that was invalidated and now you're flipping your point to the opposite side. This fishing expedition you are doing to make a point is getting ridiculous.
> My concern is there's no concrete answer
"My point is invalidated, now I have a new argument", whatever mate.
> I conclude, you're a fanboy, and a troll
Again with the ad homimem unsurprisingly. If your case was clear, you wouldn't need it.
> trying to act like an intellectual
This might surprise you, but I actually knew those 'big' words (oh no, latin! Also, who wants to write up large sentences explaining things in layman terms when you can write in a few words) from high school, your poor education is your own problem. Your attempts at deflecting your poor education on to me is insulting.
> you're just blindly defending this whole thing
Blindly? Wow. The fact I am not accepting some of the ridiculous arguments people come up with and give them a chance to counter me proper must mean I am blindly defending FA.
> you're a troll
I have a different opinion from you, plus I won't go off topic allowing you to move the goal posts, therefore it couldn't possibly be true and I must be a troll.
> and I'm done talking to you.
You can't have the upper hand in an debate when you make zero attempt at centering your argument around what the subject the person was even fucking talking about.
Which again, you openly admitted to doing because you felt it wasn't relevant and just tried to dismiss what I said based on how I said it.
I feel the things you're focusing on here don't really matter and I don't feel at all you've debunked what I said because again, you didn't even really stay on the same topic, you're just attacking my character and education and being petty as fuck.
This whole thing as been a complete failure to communicate, hell it's practically derailment on your part, it's one of the numerous reasons I'm calling you out as a troll besides the direct and subtle insults.
I don't care what you think or say any more, and I'm not going to bother replying or even reading what you say because all you did was waste my time with pretentious bull shit.
You give one example of a take over not involving change. Okay? But how often is that the case in most examples? You can say fortune 500 doesn't count because of how each things operates, but I don't see what the hell that has to do with business logic or how the company in question, in any context, can hope to make money through web page ads. You said you have theories, but refuse to say what they are, which again is just you refusing to fucking stay on topic for bull shit reasons.
Pretty much everything else you typed, most of it had nothing to do with the subject and everything to do with you just trying to belittle me with fucking nonsense. You're just trying to analyze how I worded things, and accusing me of this and that.
I admit yeah I used the wrong wording in my first post you replied to, but I already admitted to that and felt the literal implications were outweighed by the point itself. That being, most of the time when something is bought out by a company, changes happen that they feel will secure their investment and interests. Would you buy a chair and not move or use it in any way? I really don't see how IMVU is going to come out on top financially, I believe they spent something like 20k. I some how doubt they'd get much of their investment back if with a small add in the corner that people can just adblock.
Although again, this conjecture is pointless as it was before, because you will again, refuse to address it, because if your own argument could stand on it's on fucking legs, you wouldn't need to center your argument on me and my debate method and other off topic horse shit.
Everything you're doing just screams troll tactics to me.
So unless you actually, I dunno, stay on the topic and not dance around it and act like a fucking douche and attack me, then maybe we'd actually have something to talk about, but you're just not capable of that it seems.
Prove me wrong, or keep attacking me with your pretentious bull crap and I'll proceed to abstain from this pointless, one sided conversation you're having.
I was very clear on what I have been responding to, always quoted exactly what I was responding to. The fact you want to move the goal post or attempt to use red herrings to avoid discussing exactly what was being responded to. I'm sorry, but, I have been responding clearly to what you've mentioned.
> Which again, you openly admitted to doing because you felt it wasn't relevant and just tried to dismiss what I said based on how I said it.
No, I stated:
"I do apologize, I will make it clear that I wasn't particularly addressing your concerns, I was pointing out the fallacy in your argument and how that identifies that you are not all knowing in this matter. "
That's different from merely dismissing what you've said, in fact, I even identified a large amount of fallacies in your arguments. The main which I responded to and was the main spawn of this discussion used cum hoc ergo propter hoc.
> hell it's practically derailment on your part,
Yes, because apparently by trying to stick your original argument and debate that instead of letting you move the goal posts is a derailment.
> you're just attacking my character and education and being petty as fuck.
Excuse me, you're one who started with ad hominiem like "But I'm pretty sure at that point you'd be trolling me", you're the one who came up with "trying to act like an intellectual using big words you looked up online" instead of debating the topic. You're not happy that I refute your claims or turn them around, then maybe you shouldn't have brought them into the discussion. Don't cry foul now because you clearly didn't manage to validate those points.
> I don't care what you think or say any more, and I'm not going to bother replying or even reading what you say because all you did was waste my time with pretentious bull shit.
That's fine, xyugox. Because I am not doing this for you either, I'm doing this for everyone else. At least people can now tell your arguments are rubbish, you can't admit your arguments are simply wrong, instead you transform them or use red herrings. You react with hostility and use ad hominem when a different cause is presented.
> But how often is that the case in most examples?
You haven't even investigated, you couldn't even find one. You couldn't even be bothered to investigate the one item I gave you as evidenced by the fact you couldn't tell what Dice and Slashdot were during the discussion. Meanwhile, you can see that I investigated some of your data, I even revealed that I looked at company's house documentation and what I couldn't find. How is anyone meant to trust your data? How are you meant to trust your own data?
You have no idea what's relevant, you have no idea of even the numbers.
> You can say fortune 500 doesn't count because of how each things operates, but I don't see what the hell that has to do with business logic or how the company in question
Maybe if you spent a little time doing research by collecting data and correlating it instead of just using anecdotal experiences and declaring your poor knowledge on mergers/acquisitions as fact, you would have learned something basic in the matter.
> Pretty much everything else you typed, most of it had nothing to do with the subject and everything to do with you just trying to belittle me with fucking nonsense.
If you want to use things like ad hominem and expect me to not respond in kind to refute your statements, allowing you to discredit my character, you are greatly mistaken. These responses were initiated by your own doing. We could have argued the finer issues with your use of cum hoc ergo propter hoc in your initial argument, but as I had mentioned it, you never bothered to respond to it.
> I admit yeah I used the wrong wording in my first post you replied to
And you transformed the argument because of it a few times, which I accepted. We took away absolutes from the point.
You then brushing off the entire discussion with "I've been trying to make and focusing too hard on the literal implications of my wording that were honestly irrelevant" was ridiculous and I explained why: I would beg to differ, this is a text environment the "literal implications" of your wording are all that matter here. It is quite simply the only reasonable way to convey meaning, information and so on.
> because if your own argument could stand on it's on fucking legs, you wouldn't need to center your argument on me and my debate method and other off topic horse shit.
You want to know my argument doesn't work any more than your does? Because it's the same argument, I only based it on different data. It has the exact same cum hoc ergo propter hoc flaw yours does. The entire point was to show how stupid this particular argument was.
> Everything you're doing just screams troll tactics to me.
Yeah, says the guy who started posting video and gif responses to me. It is clear who the troll is in this discussion. The only reason you even responded with this is because you didn't get the response you wanted and needed to save face. I have no sympathy for someone that tried to drag me through the dirt.
> So unless you actually, I dunno, stay on the topic and not dance around it and act like a fucking douche and attack me, then maybe we'd actually have something to talk about, but you're just not capable of that it seems.
Any dancing around has been the result of your own ad hominem attacks against me, your own "troll" posts.
> Prove me wrong, or keep attacking me with your pretentious bull crap and I'll proceed to abstain from this pointless, one sided conversation you're having.
Considering your previous track record, it's clear I cannot have an actual civil discourse with you, without you trying to devolve it.
You just went right back to what you were doing before and the discussion yet again has gone nowhere. What does ANY of this have to do with a simple question.
Why does IMVU want FA? What concrete reason should we believe nothing drastic will happen? Why is Dragoneer not answering any questions with a direct answer? If at all.
He just said vaguely we have nothing to worry about, oh goody. Because he certainly wouldn't have several reasons to have a conflict of interest to lie to us.
I don't know why that's so hard for you to just discuss that. That's all I want. If you're not going to, then stop talking to me, I don't give a shit about any of your pretentious horse shit and your attacks.
I dislike you immensely, you're an affront to debate, logic and reason, and you fill me with great disgust.
I'm a little let down by myself I fell for this obvious troll bait for so long.
What a waste of time.
Of course not, because you stated the following:
"I don't care what you think or say any more, and I'm not going to bother replying or even reading what you say because all you did was waste my time with pretentious bull shit."
In my response I stated:
"That's fine, xyugox. Because I am not doing this for you either, I'm doing this for everyone else. At least people can now tell your arguments are rubbish, you can't admit your arguments are simply wrong, instead you transform them or use red herrings. You react with hostility and use ad hominem when a different cause is presented."
In summary, I am not posting any more to discuss with you. The points have been made, you have clarified you are not responding (yet you do so any way). Now you complain that I am not continuing a dialogue with you and continuing the topic you failed to address.
I don't know if you're intentionally trying to set up another silly red herring in an attempt to invalidate my comments, but I am honestly done talking to you. Congratulations, be proud that you succeeded in reaching ad nauseam. You can print out this thread and hang it on your wall with pride.
> I dislike you immensely, you're an affront to debate, logic and reason, and you fill me with great disgust.
We can see clearly whose been the one making use of ad hominem attacks, we can see who is making use of red herrings and we can see who is making "troll" posts on this thread.
> I'm a little let down by myself I fell for this obvious troll bait for so long.
While you can justify it to yourself however you like, that doesn't make it so.
Here's what I don't understand... If IMVU truly believed in FA, they could have simply FUNDED the site without actually OWNING it. Am I wrong?
They could have provided FA with the $20k and the contracted resources needed to give us technical support. In trade, with just a partnership, but you retaining ownership, we could have provided them with additional ad space or advertising options to bring web traffic back to their gaming site. In order for that to be "fair trade," though, that web traffic must bring back $20k and then some. I know FA is popular, but will the only change mentioned, 'just ads,' really bring that much money back to them? It seems like they'll be getting more back from FA than just that. What are we truly giving them in return that they had to own the website to get?
I just tend to believe that all of this could have been worked out WITHOUT them outright BUYING the website. What am I missing here? It seems like there IS something that's not being mentioned.
Why did they NEED to actually OWN the site, just to put ads on it? It doesn't make any kind of "business" sense to me.
Considering that the mentions on this on FA IRC channels has been next to nothing, I don't think it's that big of an issue in the community like the commenters here make it seem here.
Of course.
This is what I've always wanted for FA.
Exactly this.
In all seriousness though, what are the changes that we should expect to see, You say that they are going to stay more distance, but will there still be legitimate artist ads? or are we only going to see IMVU crap ads? Should we expect any changes in the terms and conditions? And can we be guaranteed that the works posted will remain ours rather than like some sites with the small print allowing them to use the posted art or pictures however they please. I think that these are all legitimate concerns that a lot of furs here may be concerned about and need to be addressed to the general FA member pond. I could see this either going splendidly, or completely ruining a site that many call "home".
why complain about this ? i mean really.. all you guys do is complain and no positive comment out of this
you know, imvu only bought stocks in my book. they bought FA and gave allot of k of money worth of gear/performance in return, people just ignore that and read **imvu BOUGHT FA** they dont get the upgrades and performance part of the deal, and besides FA is also still working independent from imvu. imvu doesnt take part in the future development of FA
also why complain about something that is optional.. you dont have to go to imvu to get onto/in FA..
look i know people are gonna be mad for me mentioning it, but just like google+and youtube, i never use google+ but do use youtube ( to watch adult marked content). you never have to use the Google+ service to go to youtube ( only shit is they upload videos/replies/comments directly on your +page ) so you have to register to google+ and youtube and yet you dont need to use the service that is google+ to go to youtube or vice versa.
the same goes for imvu. you dont need to use it to join this site nor do you need to join this site to go into imvu
also i dont get the complaint about ads either? even tough i block them that doesnt mean i dont like them. i actually only intended to use it for videos on youtube and stream, but never thought of changing the priority on every site . you know ads work 2 ways. you buy advertising space on sites/TV to promote your product and get more people. or you sell your advertising space to a company for a reasonable fee. or do both and get more followers and money( to use for your company (growth)
or a third option probably not applicable here.. use youtube/facebook/twitter/any other ''free media'' for showing your product..
so basically ads are important... both for growing companies as well as to show what '' we make''/do this as a company
about your personal info selling to imvu?: is that your biggest concern? really? the government and hackers can get your hand on your info also and you complain about the company investing some money in a fandom/furry community getting your info
also people/furries! dont hate the hell out of the owners. why not trust that imvu is not helping FA ( ''to the ground'') in any way( says they're still independent from/to imvu)
that it may be a generous donation instead of a buyout. that dragoneer still owns fur affinity(seems like it since he is still in charge)
it maybe a April fools prank gone wrong..
and you guys!: why complain at all before something happens! just sit it down and wait.. not every company are dicks like what you guys say/claim
(i also confess i have had imvu but never got on it only once in a while for 15 minutes )
Time to start a mass migration to Weasyl a-la "Prince of Egypt" montage.
SL managed to do so within 3 years, by now almost 9 years ago.
IMVU can kiss my ass due to this.
Let's see if it'll result in FA becoming a second issue.
IMVU knows that FurAffinity is 50% porn, right?
This fact scares me and I'm no longer concerned about being active here, sorry.
P.S.: No, Dragoneer does not have to explain himself. This was his site and he sold it rightfully. He does not have to answer to you all. He's not a fucking dog. Stop demanding him to explain himself because he doesn't have to.
P.S.S.: As lame as it sounds (because I been in your shoes) but you can't get a refund when it comes to donations. You donated your money so it's not yours anymore. Capisce?
If you're renting a house and your land lord sold the house while you're living there. Do you have the right to know why?