so are you leaving FA?

I would leave FA on the sole basis of the opinions I bring up here:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6588405/

FA also has due diligence in protecting your artwork from theft, Please see http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6604569/

So you're leaving too?

ok,i have read the admin journal and i don't really understand what the hell is happening,and why people want to leave FA....i mean in the journal the admin said IMVU can't use our art and all of that,so what is really the problem here?that we don't trust the admin declaration?

Well seeing as how Neer doesn't even know about the rules himself, I'm leaving due to him just being incompetent.

I could tell you I'm Onta's sock puppet alt or the most popular furry ever, even an artist with skill on par with Michelangelo. That doesn't mean I'm being honest. I don't HAVE to tell you the truth. For some people leaving it's because they don't want to run risks, some are leaving on principle. The fact that the biggest update the site's gotten in years is the "© 2015 IMVU" at the bottom of the screen is doing nothing to support whoever owns this place now.

(And yes, I know about the improvement in notes but even that was under the watch of IMVU, not Neer. And it's not even the kind of update this place needs to pull it up out of the muck)

"Hi, I'm the owner of IMVU. I'm not going to to steal any of your work. However, a bunch of users use my site. If one of them happens to steal your work, that's their own choice. If you'd like to report it, you must be a member of IMVU. That'll be $50, please."

So basically, IMVU isn't going to steal your work themselves, but you need to be a member to report users, and being a member costs money. There's a workaround to report it without being a member, but they're not exactly forthright about how to do it.

But actually, cases of theft have been happening also long before IMVU bought FA

'xactly. People pretend this is both new and only happens to FA.
What stops an IMVU user from taking art from ANY gallery, Weasyl, Inkbunny, deviantart, and uploading it to the IMVU shop?

Precisely! And the whole "IMVU could change the ToS to fuck us over" thing...I mean, the previous owner could have done that too.

Storm in a teacup, it really is.

They did, it's why all "cub" art has been removed.

Wise words from Iskra. <3

is a rare thing!

you can send a DMCA takedown notice to dmca[at]imvu.com without any cost ôo

There's a workaround to report it without being a member, but they're not exactly forthright about how to do it.

Yeah, I covered that. They should make it easier to find that info than it is.

Easier to find than putting it in the TOS under "Copyright and Trademark Infringements"? With every catalogue page selling user-generated content having a bit that says "This product is provided by a third-party seller, cat625, who has warranted that they have all appropriate rights to any content involved. IMVU takes copyright infringment seriously. To learn more about our policy, including takedown procedures, please click here." with a link that sends you off to said TOS?


(e: Typo)

But, you have to pay their subscription fee in order to view their site.

How can you file a DMCA takedown request if you can't even view the content that is in question?

Funny, I have no problem looking at their online store and I don't have an IMVU account.

That is a small portion of their store. You can't see the adults only section without an account.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6603749/ Probably the easiest way of doing this.

Users drive the content - so if your content is stolen you have to report it. This is the best journal I've seen so far which isn't completely directed towards just IMVU if content is stolen. You don't have to be a member, just prove that the content is yours.

The only way to stop this is not to post any content online, anywhere. DA, FA, facebook, Sofurry, Weasyl - it doesn't matter where the content comes from - users can still use it on user generated content websites.

Users can also report stolen content to me, and I'll reach out to the artists affected and instruct them on how to file a take down to protect their stuff. IMVU, nor FA, supports art theft. IMVU just asks artists follow the legal procedure to request art removal (which is pretty standard).

But, that isn't standard. Like, at all. Other art sites don't make you jump through hoops in order to take down stolen artwork. SL's takedown system doesn't involve filing a DMCA.

What you said just isn't true.

Asking people to file a DMCA isn't "jumping through hoops".

It should at least as easy as the competition. IMVU's competitors don't force you to file a DMCA to takedown content. It is insulting that they force artists to file a DMCA.

These are all issues that should have been worked out months ago. If they owned FA for the last two months, why has it taken until now for the issues about art theft to be addressed?

This whole thing has not been managed well.

it kind of IS.
DMCA requires full legal name, address, contact info and other bullshit as well as loads of proof that you're actually the person who you say you are.
Way more effort than a simple 'this is mine, I am x, remove it' that goes on on DA, FA, SF, Weasyl, etc.

What other proof? You just put your name and phone number down and that's it. Nothing else.

Shock! A legal notice actually requires you treat it as a legal document!

SL's takedown system for SURE requires you to file a dmca. you have to fax the damn thing too.

Cheers for that!

https://i.imgur.com/md5jjxj.jpg yeaaaaaaah gg

Exactly lady!
Also a lot of the people ripping down galleries haven't taken into account that people will have commissions reposted and such too. How rude would it be for an artist to issue a takedown notice for something you paid for because it was reposted elsewhere?

Reporting art theft via DMCA is free. That's part of the very law that protects artists.

But, you have to pay IMVU's subscription fee in order to see the NSFW art.

How is that fair? How is that free?

That's an issue IMVU is aware and is looking into ways to address that.

I really do wish you talked to a lawyer before going through with this sale, and had a lawyer review the contract. . .

Lawyers did review the contract before it was signed.

IMVU's lawyers.

*facepalm* but FA did not have a lawyer present?!

Because FA is entirely broke and 'neer thought he could handle this all himself.

Jokes on him. I'm sure there are dozens of lawyers in the fandom that would have reviewed the contract at no cost.

woe is us woe is us ;.;, at least this will be fun. . .

FA probably couldn't afforded a lawyer... >w>

He should have done a lot of things

Why wasn't this worked out BEFORE you sold the site to them?

Because someone's an idiot.

Just my opinion.

There is that, then there is the fact he was given wads of cash and possibly salaried employment for X years by handing over control and the content their in. Well on top of the 20k that was donated and um, used for something other than servers I guess?

maybe since it's IMVU's problem, they should give CONFIRMED artists of FA free adult (limited) accounts just so they can check/report on their stolen art. i gave this suggestion in the giant journal, but was quickly told how unfair it is to just give free accounts to some. but how fair is it really for someone to make a profit off of some artist's labor? oh. that's right, it's not.
maybe IMVU should look in to partnering with these artists instead of fighting them. if they want the art in their stores for sale, then pay the artists a portion to allow it. and DMCAs are a pain in the ass. so what if they're free? no self-respecting furry porn artist is gonna give out their full name and personal info over the interwebz, to someone they don't know, to do whatever they want with it?

Yeah, what Joest said is a serious issue and I have yet to see an actual statement on that or some kind of solution. All we hear is "just report it!", but what we can't access we can't report.
I am very neutral about this whole thing and want to wait until actual effects of this become apparent, and most of what I see from the community so far is blind nerd rage. And while I also don't really care about angsty teens selling furry porn in a Second Life clone, this still is a valid concern from your community.

Hi. To report it, you file a DMCA.
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/web_inf.....rms_of_service
Info is at the end of the ToS.

You do not need to be a member, i does not cost money.
They are extremely fortright about it, it took about 5 seconds to find that on their website.

you should check FA TOS 4.1.
Its been there for a while, but some only realized it now.

Im kinda stupid, so my smart friend explained to me that it basically means anything we upload is theirs.

Art theft has been happening for as long as people have been able to download art and upload it elsewhere, and is completely independent of IMVU buying FA. If you still wish to leave, though, farewell. Just be warned that wherever you upload your art, ANYONE can still download it and upload it somewhere else, claiming it as their own.

Art theft on an unrelated board is one thing. Having a company profit on piracy is another. Especially one coming in AFTER i've posted my comment and doing nothing to quel the distribution

Have you taken legal action against the users illegally profiting from your artwork? Most people don't bother with that but if you feel so strongly about it, you can.

We are working to do just that -- quell the distribution. Once we find it, and it's reported to us, we're working hand-in-hand with the artists to help get the content removed.

Then you are anti DA, FA, weasly, SL, etc...

You think IMVU is the only site where stolen content happens and people profit off of it?
Its impossible with all the mass amounts of items being uploaded there to police every single thing...

But many users on there do look out for theft.
And even if they don't, when they spot it they send a message to owner of art or artist and go "Hey, found this on IMVU, did you allow this or is this you?"
You are faulting a company for things individual people did.

Only way they can provent any theft is not allow ANYONE to post ANYTHING.
even if they made it themselves, even if they have the permissions...
nly way a site like IMVU could prevent it is to literally KILL ITSELF.

You want to leave because you are finally aware of this after years upon years of IMVU users themselves yelling out "Hey, stolen art over here! Please come check it out and see if its yours or not!"
Fine, go ahead...
But please don't blame IMVU when you didn't have due diligence to check for yourself beforehand.

ooooh man, the fact that a big artist in the fandom said this is amazing. we cant all move from FA untill the big leagues do so first.
ill be looking thru your gallery and saving the things that inspire me.
If you leave Onta, please let us know where you go, cause I will gladly follow in order to keep up with you art

I've followed you for eons and always been a loyal watcher/fan but you're more into human stuff these days and have been pushing further away from furry art so much that you post here maybe 1-2 times a year now. None of which is ever nice finished furry works, maybe your one furry a month comic pic but thats about it.

So I hardly think leaving FA will honestly effect you at all, you've outgrown furries, and while you could still be making bank off of them, I dont think you desire to do that anymore.

Word.

Journals like this are the most important asset that we have in the fight against IMVU.

They bought the site in order to gain access to the art/artists. If many of the most popular artists decide to pack up and leave, it would hit IMVU in the wallet due to loss of pageviews.

One would hope, at least.

How about you band together with the artists and file a RICO suit against IMVU? Plain and simple, them charging you money just to be able to report your copyright and protect it is worthy of such a suit.

Funny fact: IMVU exists for over 10 years. And art thieves on IMVU exists for about the same time. Now the question is: anyone thought about it before IMVU bought FA?

Nope! Not one single iota. But now that they all know that it's been happening for a decade, it's all REMOVE DRAGONEER'S SKIN WITH A CHEESE GRATER AND BATHE HIM IN SALTED LEMON JUICE!!!!

It's more the fact that the company that now owns FA is making artists from the site they now own and are trying to win over, pay and jump through hoops to have their work removed. Not a good start. So that is why it is just now a big deal.

Furries have enjoyed a charmed life when it comes to their work. Most furry art sites will respond aggressively, even to unsubstantiated claims of theft. The rule in the community is to take it down as a precaution, then determine later if it's a valid claim. After all, it can always be reposted if it was taken down in error.

But the real world doesn't work that way.

Everyone seems to have forgotten all about Sibe, aka Ross Reddick, and just how much trouble we went through to shut him down. It took lawsuits from Furnation, Shanda Fantasy Arts, Radio Comix, Rabbit Valley and others before we could finally convince his parole officer to drag him in for parole violations. It cost us thousands of dollars. Thousands. Court costs, lawyer costs, filing fees, paperwork fees, duplication fees; it all adds up fast.

For just one asshole running an IRC server to serve up high-quality scans of hot-off-the-press folios. And then switching over to distributing the files via bittorrent. And in the end, we didn't even get him for theft or copyright violations! He went to jail for violating parole on previous, unrelated convictions.

Welcome to the real world, Rika. It sucks out here. We've got rules, and the world operates by those rules.

Perhaps in time, IMVU will come to realize how much they stand to lose by not streamlining the reporting process. But it won't be until enough people complain via the proper channels.

People need to save their Llama Drama for their Mmamas. There is always Pixiv...
No censorship, free to browse. ^_*

Onta,

We're working directly with artists who violate IMVU policy. Worry not. When users report art theft to me that takes place on IMVU I'm working directly with the artists to help file reports against the users who stole art.

But in the unfortunate reality, any marketplace where users can submit this kind of content is prone to theft -- be it eBay, Amazon, Redbubble and more. This isn't an IMVU-specific issue, but the difference is I work for IMVU, and part of my goals is easing the issues for artists.

That is unfortunate. It's also unfortunate that your employers are actively working against artists who are trying to even see if their art has been stolen in the AP section by refusing to even allow them to browse it without paying, providing their SSN, credit card in-name and photo ID. Not to mention the only method for takedown is DMCA, which is the least possible effort required by law to police copyright.

Most sites, including Amazon and eBay, offer a way to report products for various reasons, but IMVU does not. Even flagging (which accomplishes little) requires an account on the site, which many artists don't want. And to top it all off, some of this stuff has been on there for years, and a lot of it violates IMVU's own ToS. That should go to show you how much they actually care about policing their store, at least not so long as they continue to make money from it.

So you're doing this with a highly popular artist, but what about the small-time ones? Are you going to reach out to all of them? Are Onta and the others going to be compensated for the profit that IMVU and the thief made off their work? IMVU thieves have rarely been properly punished in the past, many of them repeat offenders and even if they do it can take months, so what makes you think that'll all change now? Why the hell should people have to pay, break through crappy security, or search for a loop-hole to be able to see if their possessions are being stolen and file a take-down request if they are? Last time I checked I didn't have to pay to get my crap taken off of the other sites.

Meh, if you're a small-time artist and not popular you should just face it that you aren't worth a shit. If someone steals your art you should just pretty much just accept it, as there's nothing you can do about it. Even if you are popufur there will still be even more theft of your art and you won't even know it. Artists are becoming worth less and less every day.

I say that 'n I'm one of 'em. LMAO.

It's a sad, slow and disgusting epidemic.

Oh, but don't worry Piche, it'll all blow over in two weeks right? =)

What are you groveling here for? You know everyone will forget...right?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAzqCfgVIAAfnwp.png

DEEP BREATH!

I never stated everyone would forget, just that that a lot of the initial reaction would calm down and people would be able to look into things more.

Except people are looking now. Desperately so. And from the look of things no one is finding anything they like. Stop acting like things are gonna go smoothly after a few weeks and giving unanswers. You say you're the one who solely controls FA since IMVU isn't sticking a finger in this pot so act like it. If you want people on your side then act like you're on ours instead of saying crap like http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44992190 . I mean come on, "artists"? You're considering them artists? The guys who scrape pictures from popular artists and sell it for a profit? Come on. No offense but this kinda stuff makes you sound like a lapdog.

Except the opposite is happening. The more and more we learn, the more uneasy the community becomes.

Maybe we'd calm down if you/IMVU provided some evidence/reason for us to calm down, but you've done the opposite. You've hid behind the NDA like there is something to hide. This entire situation has been mismanaged from the beginning.

i love that you're thirsty enough to actually take the time to post in a journal like this

thank you onta for making this possible

I've posted in a lot of journals to help discuss and relay issues to users.

The response to every single one of those journals was 'this information isn't sufficient, he isn't answering our questions'.

You still aren't answering our questions.

DAMAGE CONTROLLLLLL!

"But in the unfortunate reality, any marketplace where users can submit this kind of content is prone to theft "

I want to explain something to you. Yes, this does happen, and I understand that it does.

But what you've done is essentially escalate the problem by forming this merger with a known-nefarious, scam site. How are you possibly going to be able to keep a watch over art that gets put up there? Come on! You're not able to do that, and you know it.

Case in point, people are selling images that anyone can find on any Google/Bing image search.

$20,000
2
0
,
0
0
0

If you work for them, why did you sell the site to them knowing they do this?

I was hired on as part of the sale.

but did you look at the company at all? talk to people who've used them before? Stuff like that?

I actually find it hilarious that he SOLD a supposed "community" driven website.
based and funded entirely on donations.
Geee dragoneer!

... is nobody aware this is an april fool's prank?

That would be great, but also the worst prank ever. XD

No prank is eve good without an air of believability.

Well I'll give you that. Very true.

It's looking like they are slow or outright unresponsive to takedown requests too.
There's a user on there who stole a lot of art (including mine and Falvie's) who still hasn't been banned.

I can guarantee you the users won't get banned for stealing art. IMVU has a decade-long proven history of this. As long as they make the majority of their money from stolen artwork (I've caught IMVU with my own work being sold - scraped from my site) and the users that steal said artwork, they will not stop it.

Actually, I'm STILL seeing some of my work there (and I don't have to pay to check because IMVU's security is WORSE than FA's. Literally a URL modification with the right CGI script command and you're in.)

This is why you post a deadline within the DMCA notice. A "You have x days to comply and have the entirety of my artwork removed from your website, or else legal action will be taken against you" can be very helpful. A mix between a "Cease and Desist" and a DMCA.

Good luck to you, man. You may actually have enough clout to get stuff done on Dragoneer's end. IMVU's end, on the other hand...

Your jumping the gun, in my opinion. But go for it.

I haven't done anything yet. Jumping the gun would be killing my account now.

I just dont want to hear or deal with any of this nonsense so im telling them to fix it asap.

Yes, but your also automatically assuming imvu is at fault when it's their user base. They had the pay for VIP system in place for years. I understand you don't want people profiting off your art but getting upset at them and Dragoneer over something other people have done seems a bit like jumping the gun. Just try talking with Dragoneer is all I'm saying. Talking gets more done then threats and demands.

It's indirectly IMVU's fault for doing the least amount of effort to quell the RAMPANT theft on their site and having a ludicrously difficult and frankly shady means of dealing with it. That is most definitely on them. You have to give your SSN for Christ sake.

And talk with Dragoneer? LMAO

well, onta is a top tier artist, he MIGHT get to fix some issues Onta fixes.. but for the rest? lol no..
I still have a ticket that was open for 6 years that went unresolved.

The only one 'profiting' is IMVU. They make 'cash' for the 'coins'. The coins are then circulated in their virtual world and unable to be converted back into RL currency unless you buy them via black market or something, like gold sellers do in WoW, and stuff like that.

I hope you're prepared to delete your account, because I highly doubt that 'neer and IMVU are going to fix a single thing.

I don't think he's jumping the gun at all. In reality, thanks to the reveal of the FA TOR backup site someone made, I'd consider that more of a reason to jump. FA/IMVU are already proving their security is garbage (well, I proved that by releasing a script bot that can't be stopped by FA/IMVU thanks to cloud reliance.)

"A website which caches is a reason to jump ship and think a website is unsafe" lol okay.

I genuinely hope you do not leave. I understand that this whole situation is pretty retarded, but hopefully shit won't hit the fan and FA and IMVU will get their shit together. It sounds like there are some things we seem to be uninformed about, and the fear stems from the unknown. If FA and IMVU cared enough, they would put us at ease and tell us word for word what was signed upon that involves us. We don't need to know the nitty gritty shitty details in between, just what comes down to the users. If it comes down to it, people may very well leave. If my favorite artists all disban, I honestly may have no good reason to stay, but in the meantime, companies buy one another out all the time and more often than not, things remain the same. The only thing that makes this different is that IMVU is a company that (tbh I have no idea why the hell they suddenly wanted to get involved with fa in the first place but w/e) is notorious for art theft and that they are not disclosing information the way people apparently would like it.

As far as I'm concerned, personally, I'll stay and wait and give Neer and the IMVU staff a chance to prove the community wrong and assure us 100% that there is nothing to worry about. I could see why bigger artists would be worried. I don't blame you guys for considering leaving. But I don't want to see you guys leave because they are being weird about disclosing info. Hopefully this shit gets cleared up, I'm more pissed about them keeping info from their users and being so shady than the idea that IMVU bought us out.

I'm glad someone with a bigger pull is bailing out on this place. Maybe this will get people to think more critically about this situation, instead of saying things like, "Your art will get stolen anywhere, so you should just deal with it!"

Yeah, your art can be stolen and profited from anywhere, but the problem is that IMVU is the one doing it, and we are now directly involved with that site. We have an increased amount of attention on us from their traffic, currently, and that's only fueling this problem.

I'm hoping that maybe all this lashback from FA about their ridiculous takedown policies will force them to alter the process, and make it actually accessible to people. Probably not though, since money is really cool and they want to make that stuff.

I seriously hope you're not leaving. You're acting too hastily. But hopefully you can have some leverage and get shit done.

Ditching the site for what, Onta? Not like there are any viable alternatives with a userbase as large as FA, that is really the main reason why people are here.
Some people put hope into baddragon's new mission of making an art site, but since they own e621 which pretty much also profits from nothing but art theft, you can really pick your poison at this point in time. :P Or make your own site.

you can opt out of both options and just not use either? thats a choice.

If you do end up leaving FA, may I ask which site you'd be moving to?

Onta, talking to ya here, person to person. Please, listen for just a moment.

Get out. Get out, before you are roped in by a corporate contract issued by the site, claiming all art on board, is now property of IMVU.

Just run. Your watchers will follow, I guarantee it. Weasyl, Inkbunny, both are GOOD SITES. But true, they don't have the population count.

But if you move there, they will. It's as simple as that.

Good luck man.

^ lol ive seen popular artists run, only 20% of there watchers run with em, if you wanna make money, you really dont want to run, stop being so scared, doesnt help i know for a fact a group of people are stealing art over IMVU just to make artists here reconsider and help FA die, imvu has officially owned FA for three months now, thats rather long you know, long enough that if anything serious could happen it would have

No actually they serious changes that quick generally they are going to make tiny ones then slowly change more and more because they want you to trust them If they came and made huge changes right away everyone would leave. And the reason its happening now is it was just exposed to us many people never even heard of IMVU but now that we are exposed to it, the artists are learning that their art is being sold illegally on a site they never heard of. Obviously they are pissed and then to learn the very site that is stealing their art their hard work, is the very site that bought this one. Yes art theft happens, but they have every right to be pissed, they have every right To want to get as far away from this one before the slow trickle changes start. To be honest I would be surprised if they started implementing changes within the first 6 months. they want to try and earn your trust before they make small changes here and there before long small changes are big ones then paid accounts then pay walls. All the people saying that if anything was going to happen it would have already are fooling themselves. Corporate buyouts there is a a honeymoon timeframe they have to try and convince them that its for the better then start making changes and convince them these changes are ok. then make imporovements to the site to desensitize you to changes. Slowly and surely the changes get bigger and bigger. That is good Business Practices.

thing is leaving FA isnt gonna stop the art theft, art stealing isnt a FA exclusive thing, not when its the users doing it and not imvu, and what changes? under imvu, we have had ddos protection and a new note system, or did that go under the radar? :p

No it won't stop the art stealing but being owned by a company that supports the art thieves is no better then accepting it and saying there is nothing I can do.

Sure it is. And since you have spread out your art business rather diversely, you don't really have much of a negative impact if you decide to do that.

Just a thing to consider in this ongoing debate is that the majority of people who are trying to make drama and scream loudly that everyone should leave aren't artists. They're just normal users with no attachments to any particular place, or community, or branch of income through art.
For me, other things matter more. I have a good going with Patreon now, but I have invested half a decade into my gallery here on FA and that is important :u For me anyway.

Onta try taking a wait and see approach. . . and on top of that, might try considering getting your work copyrighted if your in a country that it is easy enough to do so in. . .

copyright is automatic upon creation though~

no it's not, I know artists who LITERALLY send in their work to a copyright office to have it LEGALLY protected.

Copyright is the author's on creation. Having it verified is the reason to use the eco for these purposes.

What it does is protects the artists from company's LIKE IMVU from using their work for commercial purposes. that and your comment is disjointed >.>

Technically it is protected on creation, not registration; however I believe registering it means you can apply extra damages as they should have known, and as a practical matter you probably have to register it in order to sue, even if it is after the fact.

(For trademarks it's even more important because it provides prima facie evidence that the trademark has been established, etc.)

^^ This. Without registration you can get a judge to issue a court order to take down the offending works (refusing to comply with a federal court order generally means prison time), plus your court costs and reasonable attorney fees. With registration you can get money damages as well. It's simple: No registration = out of pocket expenses covered, no profit from enforcing your copyright to infringed works Registration: Out of pocket expenses + damages = profit from enforcing your copyright to infringed works.

It's worth nothing infringement may be a bit harder to prove in a court of law thus why registration is strongly encouraged. Of course this is the process for works registered in the United States. Other countries may have separate rules on registration but generally the rules are usually the same overall; except in China which I know only recognizes the copyrights of it's own citizens. Fortunately IMVU does not operate in China. ;)

Yes, it is. I'm very sorry, but you're mistaken and have not read up on the law. Thanks to the internet, in the US art is protected under copyright upon creation, whether "officially" copyrighted or not.

You miss my point, but I digress, since you missed it. . .

If you had a point, it was stupid, since you're posting things as facts that are not facts. :P

Actually it doesn't have anything to do with the internet, (which was only just starting to come into actual existence at the time), but simply that the US finally signed on to the Berne Convention in the 1980s.

Would love to see your source on this.

For what?

That the Berne Convention requires automatic copyright protection upon creation and has done so for over a century? You could go to the Berne Convention itself for the current status and the 1908 Berlin Act for when that provision was added.

1908 Berlin Act:
Article 4
Authors who are subjects or citizens of any of
the countries of the Union shall enjoy in coun-
tries other than the country of origin of the
work, for their works, whether unpublished or
first published in a country of the Union, the
rights which the respective laws do now or may
hereafter grant to natives as well as the rights
specially granted by the present Convention.
The enjoyment and the exercise of these
rights shall not be subject to any formality;

Current Text, Article 5, section 2
(2) The enjoyment and the exercise of these rights shall not be subject to any formality;

That the US fully became a member of the Berne Convention having ratified it with the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988?

That what we know as the internet came about from the unification of a number of other networks through the 1980s and early 1990s?

what the fuck is an IMVU?

SecondLife rip-off.
A 3D chat site with very crappy avatars and paywalls EVERYWHERE for most of their content.

thats what I thought...whats this gotta do with FA?

FA was bought by IMVU.

I am seeing that...I havent heard of IMVU since i was like 16...that was 9 years ago. theyre still a thing? I see art is being stolen too. I gotta ask how that is being done. Reguardless that is total bullshit if it is stealing art.

Some IMVU users take furry art, and post it either in the General Access store, or the Adult store. They have to pay credits to post said works.
Other users buy credits to then pay for said works.

The problem is, to see the Adult works you have to pay $20 to upgrade your account, give them your credit card info, and give them your social insurance number. All of this to verify your old enough to see adult works. After that, you have to file a DCMA, which sounds easy enough, but it is US legislature. So the effectiveness is questionable at best, for someone who isn't a US citizen.

Last but not least, the only people who really gain off of this is IMVU. They make real world money by selling the credits. The sellers and buyers only deal in credits, to spend on more in-game items. (I've heard there's third party sites that also buy credits from users as well, but I don't know if it's supported by IMVU itself, or more of a gray market.)

geeze, I am no content creator. though I do commission people to do so for me. and I would hate tot see someone else profit off of that. (that said getting Onta to do one for me is one of my biggest goals haha) Selling FA to a chat service seems like an odd choice though.

Wasn't IMVU around first? It can't really be a ripoff of something that's more recent than itself. xD

True enough... but still doesn't really matter which one is the rip-off.
Even if it is the older of the two, IMVU looks like the rip-off compared to SecondLife; being light years ahead in many ways. Avatars, quality, features and such.
It's IMVU that bought FA and now we are at their mercy.

What "IMVU bullshit" are you talking about?

Have we already forgotten that 'neer sold FA to IMVU and that it's ridiculous how much you have to go through (Paywall for AP stuff, rampant art theft. Ridiculously long procedure to file a DMCA to even get them to consider stopping profiting from your (stolen work)) If I had any clout, I'd be right behind onta if they decided to leave...

Not that leaving FA will make a difference. If artwork is uploaded anywhere, or has ever been uploaded anywhere, people can and will steal it. Leaving one website does absolutely nothing. Legal action against the users that are illegally making money off of someone else's artwork, however, could make a difference, provided that people go through all the necessary steps.

But as IMVU makes money off of pirated works, and have been doing so for a long time, we can boycott FA.

Thus reducing their Ad revenue they make off of us. (When the third party ads swarm this place.)

And if they don't make enough to cover costs? Then FA becomes a money drain on them.

Brilliant idea! And then what happens to FA? Worst case scenario, the website has to be terminated, and now everyone who makes a living off of selling art here will have to relocate and get back all their clients and followers.

It's very easy to just say that we should boycott something because the people who own it do something you disagree with. It's harder to see that in doing so, you will negatively affect all the people whose income depends on that something you boycotted.

And we finally, FINALLY, move on from this outdated, ramshackled hunk of junk that is FA.

After all, we know that the coding is relic age compared to other sites.

We know that the people who run this site are incompetent at best, malicious at worst.

FA is at best the old dog at the end of it's life, slowly suffering. The best thing for it is a bullet, to end said suffering. But ten years of memories are preventing just that.

And yes, I do think about the people who make an income. The big names will be making more then enough to survive this. But the smaller names will be hit the hardest, sadly. It's no different then the mass exodus from DA, when they banned porn.

It's just that now, we have far better options. Weasyl, SoFurry, Inkbunny. They all have their ups and downs, but each appeals to Furres in different ways. Plus I know of one other site in the works, Furry Society.

that is true but, it would force artists to diversify ever heard the term do not put all your eggs in one basket. If big artists leave FA more followers will follow to continue enjoying their art. smaller artists can sign up at the other sites and start Diversifying their traffic areas so when FA starts to empty out they can continue to earn profit off more then one location. right now other sites are not getting any where near enough traffic I know but if more artists post on those sites the traffic numbers will increase and make all those sites more profitable for artists. Yes it is scary to think of not having FA I for one have been on FA a long time as well, I enjoy watching art and commissioning artists even making my own, the traffic here is incredible but still You should never place all eggs in one single basket. Diversify and and profit, Artists and Followers are what make this site what it is in the first place. Furries are a community, not a commodity. IMVU based on their shady practices are trying to make us a commodity.

I am sure you as an artist knows that you have other sites out there that are willing to host your galleries and in fact will help you reach out to more people as well. We the Furries, We the community Have every right to be upset that a big corporation is trying to profit off us. In fact there is a whole other realm that makes this buy out seem worse, and that is branding. If the company buys us out like they did they own all rights to the name FA. that means they can demand compensation any time Furaffinity's Name is used. the FA con even though we do not know if they bought the LLC the fact is they are entitled to the profits of that con because the Name alone now belongs to them. They are able to collect royalties based on the Name alone. Branding is a big concern that a lot of people seem to not even be recognizing.

I am neither an artist nor a furry. I'm a human being with a fetish for transformation, and I pay artists to draw things that I like.

Right now there are quite a few websites that artists can spread to: Weasyl, SoFurry and InkBunny are the main ones. An artist would have to move to all three of them to maximize their client retention. Most people are unwilling to check multiple websites, especially if there are repeat uploads to each. This means that most people would focus on one website, and the artists would have to make sure they keep up with all three (or more) galleries; this complicates things when you want to take on a certain number of commission slots or have an auction.

All in all, having multiple websites for the same thing is inefficient and unhelpful to both artists and watchers.

What IMVU will do with FA, only time will tell. Speculation is just that: speculation. For all we know, tomorrow McDonald's could decide to buy Google and every Google doodle will be burger-themed.

its not simple speculation this kind of thing happens all the time. Case in point look at the WWF for years the Worldwide Wrestling Federation WWF operated under the name WWF. Then they were sued for using WWF By the World Wildlife Foundation WWF the results was they lost their name in legal proceedings. and had to pay compensation for using that name. they then became the WWE Regardless Branding and Name access is a serious thing in business. and royalties are often required for the use of a name. Not Speculating here I am merely pointing out a simple fact. Furaffinity the Website and the name, or the brand belongs to them, they are entitled to royalties for said name and brand. The FA con which has FA all over is technically theirs by brand alone and they are entitled to those royalties. I am not simply spreading conjecture here this is legally a fact of the matter.

FA's community has always been in the hands of the community, now that its in a corporate entity things are changing this is no longer just a community now its a business owned conglomerate. I mean its a fact that businesses are more in it for the money then for the community, which is why this is a hard pill for people to swallow the truth is Our community now belongs to a business and they are out for a profit, not for the good of the community.

a slight bit of irony over being owned by a cooperate entity. . . Us being furries for the most part and all >.>

Furries ar a community, and you can not own a community you can run one you can try and build one but in the end the community is the group of like minded individuals that if a business steps in and tries to own them they move to a new location and start over. Corporations that are as shady as IMVU are thinking they are going to turn this community into a commodity but they underestimated how the community would react to such things.

Your missing my ironic and subtly suggestive jest. . .

If anything, if they don't make a profit they'll just sell off the place.

Yeah sorry I missed the jest there *Facepaws* I think that as a community we are sending a strong message by having people like onta here step up and show there displeasure with the whole thing. I mean the damage is done IMVU would have been wiser to not make themselves well known to us because it would not have started the s** storm that is now underway. As long as we ha no clue that stuff was being stolen we were oblivious to the dirty trading, now that they have exposed themselves, they have shot themselves in the foot, Artists to the very site they bought are pissed and moving out. Its possible a class action suit could also rise from this because they are profiting off stolen works. and you can say the user is the one that is uploading them all you want its their job to do Due diligence and make sure that the people have rights to the said items they post. Not only that but to make getting to said stolen items cost money to the artists to find and keep a watch out for any new items to pop up should be illegal.

I mean seriously You file a DMCA it takes days or weeks to be processed in all that time the uploader is getting paid and cashing out with resellers making them big profits. And they did nothing to earn them other then steal the art. this is lazy business practices and just goes to show how little they really care about the community they are trying to buy their way into.

But I also think however we should try to make this work before abandoning ship.

In the end however, overreaction before anything has transpired to cause folks to pack up and leave will not help.
Be cautious, not reactive but prudent in the necessary. Expand upon other providers and other sites. Keep watch over ones work and especially keep watch on the TOS of FA, for any changes that will happen regarding content of users will be in the TOS first and foremost.

I agree with this I am floating here till further notice my profile and is empty and my information is not going to be shared. I am choosing the step back and watch with a bag of popcorn how it plays out, but at the same time If the slightest changes start happening that will come very slowly mind you I will already be in sail boat heading away from the sinking ship so I do not get sucked down with it

We be lobsters, and the water is coming at a slow boil :P

hehe I hear you We are the lobsters and the slow boil is on VERY Slow for good reason they want all this to die down to build false sense of peace and security before changes start slipping in one by one. If changes are going to happen it will not be for 6 months to a year, because they water the waters to calm before they start subtly changing things.

I don't honestly see that working out lol, considering the very nature of us the users XD. Either way I'm going to enjoy this ride.

that's really all we can do right now sit back and watch the insanity. Though I will not be surprised when changes seep in slowly

. . . So long as they don't send in the puritanical puritans to sanitize the site with fig leaves.

LMAO Oh goodness lets hope not.

OMG I'm reading the forum discussion about it hnnng. . . Oo

Um, the World Wrestling Federation was sued pretty much as soon as they started using WWF. They just managed to drag things out in court for a long time.

The difference is that IMVU is profiting off of THEIR OWN users artwork.

Dragoneer sold FA to an online chat community. Imvu = instant message virtual universe of something to that effect. A lot of controversy has sprouted because of it.

It's actually a really deep and rich universe with endless possibilities for furries.
Photo realistic renderings of your fursona with infinite customization options
http://puu.sh/gNPuX/12c303655e.jpg
Truly this is the future for our community and I wholeheartedly support any and all IMVU integration furaffinity may have in the fhaha

hahahaha sorry I can't

Fuck IMVU

I support whatever you feel is right to protect your art, Onta. If you decide that FA isn't the place you want to host your content then that's totally understandable. I'll continue to admire your work and characters elsewhere.

I support your decision Onta, I mean if you leave please leave us a way to find your art elsewhere. the real viable option I keep hearing that will really send a message to IMVU is if all artists band together and form a class action suit against IMVU for allowing this in the first place. I mean, they are supposed to inspect items before they are allowed to be sold. They have a full team that does this supposedly, The very fact they are missing Fully watermarked pics and letting them slip through with not so much as a question, That Raises 1 million flags right there their Supposed inspection team is not doing jack squat to ensure you as an artist, of a site they just bought are protected. keep us informed on where to find your art please.

I'll follow you were'ever you go~ *Cue crazy fan glitter eyes*
No really though, if you decide to leave I'll support your decision and keep an eye out for you on other sites. Gotta get my Taylor fix. ;3

Today is an sad day,....

I'd be really sad if you left FA..this is my favorite site to go to for this sort of content..x.x

I'm on IMVU myself, it's kind of making me sad that its being given such a terrible name now..I've made some of the most amazing friends while being there..its my personal get away..and now its being unfortunately trashed..bleh.

I'd be depressed if I lost some of my favorite artists due to IMVU.

All this does is yet again prove the people who run this site don't give to shits about people who use this site. The keep thinking that because the user base is so large it won't be a problem but if another site ever manages to gain even the same sized user base or close to it I have a feeling many artists will bounce from here. The site did this to itself.

Well, if you decide to leave FA do you have a tumblr that you'll be posting to? Or will you just be merging your doxy stuff with your furry stuff? Just curious! I already follow darkdoxy and mylittledoxy, I wasn't sure if there were more tumblrs I should be following :>

Wherever you decide to move your work to, you can be sure that many of us will follow. It's high time the community finally makes a move and sticks to it

Saw this journal linked on FAF
Don't know if it's already been brought up but there's at least one of your images there already:
https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre.....=1#post5114362

Hey Onta, you planning to move to another sight? I mean apart from hardblush

I got IMVU Onta, and sadly, I see a lot of your art on it. Hardblush art too...

Glad I'm a tiny ass artist so I'm off the radar... Still scares the shit of me tho.

If worse comes to worse I will be moving to tumblr.

Huzzah for old video game references.

I support what ever choice you make onta it just boogles my mind at the stupidity some responders have shown here, like realy just because we havnt noticed our art being stolen before now makes the theft legal and permissible:? thats like saying after a couple hours i first notice my car leaking gasoline but shouldn't try fixing it because its already been there for a bit before i noticed, gas does cost alot these days >>. Also Just because its impossible to police the half a billion websites that make up the internet is not an excuse to let it run rampant where ever found.
stolen art only exist because we keep making excuses to our selves and/or others not to stand our/their ground where ever possible.