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Defending Paedophelia
16 years ago
I guess that subject got your attention, eh.
I just have to vent a little.
On last week's episode of KnotCast, I had something to say about the Ursa Major Awards and the fact that two cub porn publications are nominated, one for Best Comic Book and one for Best Magazine.
Believe it or not, I consider myself a moderate in this issue.
I don't think it should be illegal to publish this type of material. They are drawings, not real children and I don't subscribe to the idea that reading Softpaw Magazine will make a person go out and rape a real child. The company behind these publications, Dream Field Comics, should be allowed to publish their material.
However, I strongly believe it is a bad, BAD, BAD idea to elevate cub porn to such a status in our community that we give it an award for "Best of" in any category.
What does that say about us as a community? A new fur, someone who may be interested in furries but not sure yet or just a random normal person seeing what we're all about sees these awards, the Ursa Majors, which claim to honour the best anthropomorphic media. Our best is clearly underage characters fucking?! Really?
If Softpaw wins anything in the Ursa Majors it will taint the awards for me. I like the spirit and the idea of the Ursa Major Awards, but if they throw away common sense to allow the cub lover lobby to vote their magazines into first place... How am I supposed to take an award that says "cub porn is the best the furry fandom has to offer" seriously?
So yes, I made this rant on the show and we asked for feedback.
Here's where I'm quite unhappy. Its nice that listeners write in, it really is. However, I'm just honestly really dismayed at the number of people writing in to defend Softpaw and the Ursa Majors in this.
The overwhelming opinion seems to be that it would be wrong to discriminate or refuse any particular publication because it's a people's choice award and that is what the people are choosing.
That's one of those "principle of the thing" arguments that sounds great in theory. And then someone puts art of 10-year old cartoon animals boinking in front of you and says "defend it". There's a line people, seriously.
And I don't even think I'm asking that much here. I'm not saying ban it from every con. I'm not starting a movement to stop it from being published. If getting off on the fantasy keeps people from actually harming kids for real then it's actually a good thing that it's being published and honestly, banning it opens the law up to the kind of "thought crimes" legality that scares me from a civil liberties perspective.
All I'm asking is that we not say it's the best publication our community has to offer.
One e-mail even said my opinions were bigotted! Well, sorry pal but last time I checked kiddie fuckers weren't afforded any kind of protected minority status. When the AMA or whatever takes paedophilia off their books as a mental disorder then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on, but that's never going to happen.
So, if Softpaw wins I strongly encourage everyone to start referring to the Ursa Major Awards as NAMBLA until they get the hint.
To the people on the committee. You made these awards up. You made up the rules. You can change the bloody rules. You can set standards. There should be some kind of minimum standard to be considered for an award like this. I like the idea of a fandom awards system, but the Ursas have a lot of work to do to grow and be taken seriously in this community. A lot of people already don't take them seriously because they don't know about them. If this stuff wins awards, it'll be an even bigger blow to the awards' reputation.
I'm sure I'll have a lot more to say this Thursday when we record. This was just to get some stuff off my chest.
I just want to scream. Its common bloody sense people. Put your principles of "its the people's choice and excluding anyone would be wrong" to the side and draw the line that should be obvious. IT'S KIDS FUCKING! GET A CLUE!
I just have to vent a little.
On last week's episode of KnotCast, I had something to say about the Ursa Major Awards and the fact that two cub porn publications are nominated, one for Best Comic Book and one for Best Magazine.
Believe it or not, I consider myself a moderate in this issue.
I don't think it should be illegal to publish this type of material. They are drawings, not real children and I don't subscribe to the idea that reading Softpaw Magazine will make a person go out and rape a real child. The company behind these publications, Dream Field Comics, should be allowed to publish their material.
However, I strongly believe it is a bad, BAD, BAD idea to elevate cub porn to such a status in our community that we give it an award for "Best of" in any category.
What does that say about us as a community? A new fur, someone who may be interested in furries but not sure yet or just a random normal person seeing what we're all about sees these awards, the Ursa Majors, which claim to honour the best anthropomorphic media. Our best is clearly underage characters fucking?! Really?
If Softpaw wins anything in the Ursa Majors it will taint the awards for me. I like the spirit and the idea of the Ursa Major Awards, but if they throw away common sense to allow the cub lover lobby to vote their magazines into first place... How am I supposed to take an award that says "cub porn is the best the furry fandom has to offer" seriously?
So yes, I made this rant on the show and we asked for feedback.
Here's where I'm quite unhappy. Its nice that listeners write in, it really is. However, I'm just honestly really dismayed at the number of people writing in to defend Softpaw and the Ursa Majors in this.
The overwhelming opinion seems to be that it would be wrong to discriminate or refuse any particular publication because it's a people's choice award and that is what the people are choosing.
That's one of those "principle of the thing" arguments that sounds great in theory. And then someone puts art of 10-year old cartoon animals boinking in front of you and says "defend it". There's a line people, seriously.
And I don't even think I'm asking that much here. I'm not saying ban it from every con. I'm not starting a movement to stop it from being published. If getting off on the fantasy keeps people from actually harming kids for real then it's actually a good thing that it's being published and honestly, banning it opens the law up to the kind of "thought crimes" legality that scares me from a civil liberties perspective.
All I'm asking is that we not say it's the best publication our community has to offer.
One e-mail even said my opinions were bigotted! Well, sorry pal but last time I checked kiddie fuckers weren't afforded any kind of protected minority status. When the AMA or whatever takes paedophilia off their books as a mental disorder then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on, but that's never going to happen.
So, if Softpaw wins I strongly encourage everyone to start referring to the Ursa Major Awards as NAMBLA until they get the hint.
To the people on the committee. You made these awards up. You made up the rules. You can change the bloody rules. You can set standards. There should be some kind of minimum standard to be considered for an award like this. I like the idea of a fandom awards system, but the Ursas have a lot of work to do to grow and be taken seriously in this community. A lot of people already don't take them seriously because they don't know about them. If this stuff wins awards, it'll be an even bigger blow to the awards' reputation.
I'm sure I'll have a lot more to say this Thursday when we record. This was just to get some stuff off my chest.
I just want to scream. Its common bloody sense people. Put your principles of "its the people's choice and excluding anyone would be wrong" to the side and draw the line that should be obvious. IT'S KIDS FUCKING! GET A CLUE!
(Not to imply that age of consent has anything to do with the parent comment; rape is always illegal, regardless of age.)
they were some thing to help market all the porn magazines...
Srsly.
And if the magazine does win, im getting myself a war helmet and ducking from the 90th cry bitch war, sponsored by The Ursa Major Awards.
...on a somewhat unrelated-yet still related to the awards note, i do hope Jack wins the comic award.
if we wanna show other people the best stuff the fandom can offer, it doesn't have to be porn right?
So in a way, you could kind of have your cake and eat it with the two separate awards.
Also, check out my journal. I wanna know what we could call it. =3
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/693842/
I agree. Cub porn shouldn't be elevated. It's fine as it is, but shouldn't be put into the spot light.
I think you're right, first off, that the awards needs standards. By that same token, though, I think that the standards need to be set to make it an award that means something to begin with.
Honestly, I bet that the number of people who listened to Episode 47 of KnotCast is larger than the number of furries who have ever voted in the Ursa Major Awards to begin with. All it is (and all it has been, up until now), has just been a popularity contest, where people literally just write in votes and whatever gets the top number wins.
That's not really an "award." It's also not at all a measure of quality. All it measures is how many people were able to get together to stuff the ballot of what is, to be completely frank, a very obscure award that most furries haven't even heard of (and again, before last week's KnotCast, I bet that number was magnitudes smaller).
Case in point: last year, the award for Best Novel went to the guy who RUNS the Ursa Major Awards. Are you honestly going to tell me that overall awareness of the awards and the people who personally know this guy didn't overlap to the point where that was a foregone conclusion?
So, yes, this is a "People's Choice" award, but only in the sense that it's a "People Who Even Know About This" Choice. Which makes it a) even less representative of the fandom as a whole, and b) even less of an honor to be proud of winning, since all it proves is that you're better at getting fans to stuff the ballot box.
Now, as someone who happens to be nominated for an Ursa Major Award myself, I'm not going to say that, oh, these awards are a terrible thing and I don't care about them, because I do care about them and I'm thrilled to have been nominated in the first place. But again, by that token...
Furry writing has really started to become "legit" again over the last couple of years, and the fandom is finally starting to care and give it (at least some of) the credit that the form is due. Accordingly, I think that furry writing should have an award that goes to something that's actually run through a panel of judges with standards and criteria and not just a box-stuffing initiative.
In the end, even in the event that Softpaw and/or Finding Avalon DO happen to win anything (and they're both up against really tough competition, in the form of Heat and Heathen City, respectively), I don't think it says, "This is the best the fandom has to offer"; really, it would just say, "Cubs fans mobilized themselves better (perhaps in an effort to spite the controversy)." And either way, next year, whether it has anything to do with said controversy or not, I think the Ursas are due for an overhaul, because a people's choice award isn't what the fandom really wants OR needs.
I agree with you, but moreover, I think I want to press one step further--if this is really the people's choice, let them goddamn think hard about what they choose, not just what they jerked off to last.
I'm actually going to disagree with that. I think that really appealing to someone's libido takes more than just a general overture toward something sexual.
In fact, I think that the very existence of a publication like Softpaw in proof of that point: people often want (and/or need) something very specific to give them what they want in a sexual context.
(See also: Dragoneer's post yesterday showing that "vore" is the most commonly searched-for term on this website--not an indication that vore is the most popular type of content here, but that the people who want to find it really want to find it.)
Being able to make such a deep connection with anyone, for me, is a truly appreciable exercise in aesthetics. You can even do it while appealing to one's libido, sexuality included! Art isn't easy to master in any regard--I just want to point out that there is more other than making the sexiest crossdressing picture possible.
People wonder why this fandom has such a bad reputation then go around blabering about how we have our charms and such...No...The most I can say is by giving this fandom 4 horrible slurs and follow it up with " but some of it is good people" I contribute porn to it to a degree but I also dont sit and fantasize about raming my wang into a prego woman while eating her heart out and shitting on a pinata.
BET THAT IS A FETISH!!
tl;dr Furry Fandom supports extreme sexual fetishs and defends them to the end then wonders why people look at them strange and give the " they are just stupid hooman\mundane boring people who dont understand"
*dances a jig*
It's astounding that at this point in time, of nearly 50 episodes of us opinionated bastards, this topic has generated the most controversy. God forbid we do a religion episode and it generate less!
Vote for jesus, win playstation 2.
controversy level reaching over 9,000!
The Hugo Awards accept nominees from any science fiction and/or fantasy source that was published within the calendar year. (Provided the work is a valid entry for one of the categories... Anyone can petition for new categories to be added.) There are many works of Science Fiction Fantasy that involve sexual scenes with physically immature characters. The Hugo Awards has maintained respectability for over fifty years without ever needing to ban nominees with offensive content.
Just like the Hugo Awards, I would make the argument that excluding any nominee from the Ursa Majors based on content would be antithetical to the true spirit of the awards.
It is possible that a minority within the fandom will appear in large voting numbers and the winning entry will end up being something the majority of the fandom disapproves of. In 2003 a Harry Potter book won the Hugo Awards, which caused enormous controversy; including an outcry for new rules to be made so something like that never happens again.
The Ursa Major isn't trying to make something great or legendary to hold the greatest achievements of "furry" on a pedestal. It is just trying to be "our version" of the Hugo Awards. For that, from what I've seen, they're doing everything right.
~Pooka
ps I disapprove of the existence of both the Hugo Awards and Ursa Major Awards.
Also, if you use the links to the right that say "Reply to this post", your post is indented beneath theirs so that people know who you're replying to.
I totally agree with you. What the FUCK people. THIS is what people look at when they come after you with charges.
If you like your kiddy / cub porn, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, trade amongst yourselfs, and STOP ADVERTISING THAT ITS JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.
Even if it is your FAVORITE TYPE of porn, do yourself, and the community as a whole a favor AND STOP MAKING US LOOK LIKE RAPISTS.
Most popularity contests are.
You do have a relatively moderate view. But a lot of fans are not moderate, and this is a highly polarizing issue.
I think you're underestimating the ability of people to make a decision about quality. I've argued in support of Softpaw's right to be on the slate, but I actually thought ANTHRO was the best magazine, and I voted for it as my first choice.
I also voted for Softpaw because I felt the publication was well produced, even though some of the stuff in #3 made me uncomfortable. The comics themselves are generally well-drawn and I know they go through a review process. The plots are somewhat more questionable, but that's true of a lot of porn.
They did the work and delivered a quality piece of work and deserve some recognition for it. Similarly, I would totally vote for the Hardpaw mentioned on the show. But only if it was better than the other options.
Ironically for all the German jibes in that section, they have been those most opposed to the nomination; they banned it from Eurofurence a year and a half ago, not that it appears to have made much difference, and are now thinking about withdrawing their support from the Ursas.
It was mentioned in the podcast that there is a line. I agree. It's the law. Other than that, I'm with the crowd who feel this is a furry work and has as much right to win a popular award as any other. If you want a selective, perhaps even juried award, go for it. Make your own. It might well be successful. But that's not what the Ursa Majors are, and I don't think they should become that either.
I said a lot more about this here and a little at the new Ursa Major Awards LJ community, which is a good place for discussion of the awards in general.
Human perception is so pervasive..there are those that defend a sexual appetite, those who act on that appetite, those that hide it and just live it out in some kind of fantasy...
Also thanks to main stream media, the furry fandom is generally frowned upon already lol. Mostly due to the fact that we (as a community) are a bit to open-minded to some controversial subjects(cub,zoo,vore, etc etc etc). Being open-minded is fine, but when you're the minority defending something the majority disagrees with, you make yourself a target...so be prepared for that. I have plenty of kinks, but I keep 99% of those to myself and my partner. I'd rather live life without a bullseye on my back =D
I don't think cub stuff should be awarded, mostly cause there's FAAAAAR better art out there. But also cause it would most definately put MORE of a bullseye on the fandom.
My two cents!
I think that if there is better artwork out there, it should definitely get the award. But the only way it'll do that is if it is nominated and voted for in the first place. Those asking "what's with the nominations?" should be asking themselves why they weren't pushing for other works to be nominated and doing so themselves.
On knotcast, I remember you all saying something close to, Don't vote for this, these people are wrong, I think.
I disagree. I would not say, publicly, that people into this kind of thing need to get a clue, and their wrong.
If I remember correctly, however, someone steering the idea back to just telling people to vote, which would *or should* clear things up.
I had something else to add but I forgot XD
I agree, but would not use your wording.
Here's my two cents: If Softpaw Magazine does indeed win, it means the rest of the furry shit nominated sucks balls.
You want to do something about it? Encourage better artists and writers to create an awesome non-cub publication. Put money, time and effort like the people at Softpaw are doing. Maybe then, Softpaw wouldn't stand a chance.
Bawwing about it doesn't help at all. And makes you look like a guy that cannot put two and two together.
$0.02
Ah, no. It just means the cub porn lovers are a well-organized, motivated group with the same minority interest in the fandom. A bunch of people like cub porn and they only have one company producing the stuff to vote for it so they all vote for the same things. Everyone else has their vote split over every other work that is nominated. The cub porn community appears to have become an organized lobby group.
You want to do something about it? Encourage better artists and writers to create an awesome non-cub publication. Put money, time and effort like the people at Softpaw are doing. Maybe then, Softpaw wouldn't stand a chance.
I'm already doing all those things. FurPlanet released a slew of stuff last year, covering a wide range of interests, orientations and ratings. I've also seen a lot of great stuff come out of every other furry publisher. If you don't think the other publisher's in the fandom are putting time, money and effort into their companies and putting out quality material you're either deluded or you've got a very singular focus and nothing else appeals to you but the cub stuff.
Bawwing about it doesn't help at all. And makes you look like a guy that cannot put two and two together.
Hah, you're the cub porn artist. You're the one who should be doing all the bawwing.
In this case, stating my opinion can help. A lot of people don't even know the Ursa Majors exist and some that do, don't take them seriously. I can see why since its apparently so easy to ballot stuff and allow the furry equivalent of child pornography to be nominated to be considered "the best" the community has to offer.
Through my journals and podcast I hope to have 1) created some awareness of these awards, 2) pointed out the damage that will be done to furry's already bad rep if cub porn wins this award and 3) spurred people to go and vote for some of the actual worthy nominees.
I never said the magazine wasn't of a high standard and I never commented on anyone's artistic ability that is in it. I've been very moderate about this, but you on the other hand have been very negative about the quality of everything else that's been nominated.
If you can't see that liking cub porn is something that the community shouldn't be putting out there as the forefront of our artistic endeavors, then you're the one who can't put two and two together. If SPM wins these awards, it will be a very bad sign for this fandom and for the legitimacy of the Ursa Major Awards.
And that is a bad thing becaaaaause....?
And other groups cannot do the same thing becaaaaause....?
Don't blame it on the cub subgroup the failures of the rest.
I'm already doing all those things
Good for you!
I've been very moderate about this, but you on the other hand have been very negative about the quality of everything else that's been nominated.
Moderate it's a bit of a stretch here. Moderate would have been saying "let the best man win", having no feelings either way. The fact that you're opposing Softpaw Magazine to participate clearly puts you on one side of the spectrum.
As for the rest of the works, I haven't said a thing. All I've said was that if SPM wins, it was because the competition lacked. If anything, if I was voting (which I'm not o.o), I'd vote for Heathen City, which, IMO, it's awesome.
So don't put words in my mouth. Don't make me spank you >_>
If SPM wins these awards, it will be a very bad sign for this fandom and for the legitimacy of the Ursa Major Awards.
Why? Because *you* don't like it? Because it's an edgy topic and make people uncomfortable?
Then all the more I want SPM to win. Let's see if that loosens some uptight sphincters.
Art is art, regardless of the content. If you don't like it, then don't vote for it. There's plenty other to choose from. And I encourage you to try and persuade others to follow you. But don't deny SPM the chance to participate because it doesn't fancy you
And other groups cannot do the same thing becaaaaause....?
Don't blame it on the cub subgroup the failures of the rest.
You can drop the snarky attitude for a start. I pointed that out because you claimed that if SPM wins "it means the rest of the furry shit nominated sucks balls." Which is obviously bullshit.
Moderate it's a bit of a stretch here. Moderate would have been saying "let the best man win", having no feelings either way. The fact that you're opposing Softpaw Magazine to participate clearly puts you on one side of the spectrum.
I have friends who aren't moderate in this issue at all. Let me tell you what not being moderate is. If I didn't have a moderate opinion in this I'd be insisting that Softpaw be wiped off the map, banned from every con and everyone involved in creating it sent to jail for being paedophiles. Considering we are talking about a publication devoted to comics featuring underaged characters having sex, I would say I'm being very fucking moderate given the circumstances.
Why? Because *you* don't like it? Because it's an edgy topic and make people uncomfortable?
I really don't expect someone who has drawn cub snuff to understand. To any sane person, not allowing paedophile publications to take part in a contest that purports to represent the best of the community should be an extremely obvious rule to have in place.
Art is art, regardless of the content. If you don't like it, then don't vote for it. There's plenty other to choose from. And I encourage you to try and persuade others to follow you. But don't deny SPM the chance to participate because it doesn't fancy you
The art for art's sake argument is a complete fallacy. As for trying to persuade others to follow me, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'd really like to see a big voter turnout in the awards this year to make goddamn sure this travesty doesn't take place. And I will happily deny SPM a place in the winner's circle if given the chance because its KIDS FUCKING! There's no way to argue that such a thing is right or good or deserves to be rewarded in any way.
At the risk of repeating myself, the cub group is not doing anything the rest cannot. But I'll grant you the point. Let's say that if SPM wins it's because it had a larger fanbase than the rest of the publications.
In any case, it seems the USMA is designed to reward not quality but popularity.
Considering we are talking about a publication devoted to comics featuring underaged characters having sex, I would say I'm being very fucking moderate given the circumstances.
Nope, you're not. You're still clearly opposing the mag. And making an awful job trying to hide it.
..To any sane person...
The fact that you just called me "insane" shows how big of a bigot you are. You don't even know me. You have no right to call me -anything-. Watch it, kid.
The art for art's sake argument is a complete fallacy
Prove it. Using words you learn it high-school doesn't make your arguments any more valid. My point stands.
And I will happily deny SPM a place in the winner's circle if given the chance because its KIDS FUCKING!
Not it's not. At worse it's -drawn- kids fucking. And because it's a work of fantasy it should be allowed a chance as anybody else.
What made you think I was trying to hide it? o.O
The fact that you just called me "insane" shows how big of a bigot you are. You don't even know me. You have no right to call me -anything-. Watch it, kid.
LOL, first of all calling me "kid" is rich from someone who's profile says they're 4 1/2 years old. Secondly, only in this fandom could I ever imagine being called a bigot for being anti-child porn. That's laughable. Paedophiles are not some kind of persecuted minority. You're deeply sick and you need mental help.
Not it's not. At worse it's -drawn- kids fucking. And because it's a work of fantasy it should be allowed a chance as anybody else.
I've already acknowledged what it is. I'm well aware that its drawn and that its furry as opposed to actual photos of kids fucking. Its still putting a fur coat on an extremely fucked up fetish and calling it "art". It doesn't deserve any official recognition from this community at all. I wouldn't prohibit its publication, I'd consider it protected by the first amendment no matter how distasteful it might be, but it doesn't deserve any rewards. It may even have the most amazing layout and production values this fandom has ever seen, but that doesn't matter. Shit is still shit, even if you put a pretty bow on it.
Anyway, I'm now done with you. My fervor over this has calmed somewhat, to the point where I don't have to further debase myself by arguing with a bloody cub-snuff artist on the internet. I don't know why I wasted my time with you in the first place. You were just the most extreme person to comment on this journal and that was somewhat interesting for a brief time. Goodbye.
Again, you don't know me at all. You can't assert that. Being unable to see past your prejudice is the definition of bigotry. So yes, you're a bigot. I'm sorry to break it for you :/
I've already acknowledged what it is. I'm well aware that its drawn and that its furry as opposed to actual photos of kids fucking. Its still putting a fur coat on an extremely fucked up fetish and calling it "art". It doesn't deserve any official recognition from this community at all. I wouldn't prohibit its publication, I'd consider it protected by the first amendment no matter how distasteful it might be, but it doesn't deserve any rewards. It may even have the most amazing layout and production values this fandom has ever seen, but that doesn't matter. Shit is still shit, even if you put a pretty bow on it.
Says you. Not everybody thinks like you. I know a lot of people think differently, otherwise it wouldn't have been nominated. But if you took your head out of your ass long enough, you would probably be able to see that for yourself.
Goodbye.
We'll keep in touch.
There's a lot of great work from 2008 that didn't make the UMA list that really should be there. And what I have read of what got nominated definitely deserves to be there. More time, money and effort goes into publishing and drawing than most people realise. Artists and publishers rarely get the recognition they deserve.
The people in the background getting the comics made and distributed, like Fuzzwolf, get even less thanks, when they deserve so much more. I always feel kind of camaraderie with other publishers and resellers like myself because I know how hard our job is. So it was very difficult to hear him speaking out against our right to recognition. Regardless, if he ever faced prejudice or attack over his right to recognition or expression, or the right to sell his comics, I'll be there defending him just the same.
I wish the artists and fans of all the other works in the UMA would do more to promote the Ursa Major Awards and their own nominations. The loudest complainers about our nominations are the ones who feel they should be up there, not us. I understand that would feel horrible and it doesn't seem fair when you feel you deserve to be up there too.
I don't want our work to win just because we're the only ones who put effort in to promoting the awards. All the other publishers and artists nominated should be doing just as much promotion! It is your right. There is no shame in telling your fans you could be nominated, or voted for, and that they should go and participate in the UMA and vote honestly.
If you see my journal promoting the UMA I state that we were nominated and that people should vote for what they think deserves to win. I was careful with my wording because I don't want people to vote for us out of some political or idealogical reason, or because I told them to.
This is not vote stuffing. Vote stuffing is a form of cheating where the votes are fake. The people voting for us genuinely support our work and genuinely think it deserves to win. If there were so many that we got nominated, then it's not a conspiracy and we have as much right to recognition for our hard work as anyone else.
We're not trying to discredit the fandom. We put in as much as the rest of you in blood sweat and tears getting things drawn and published so we have as much right to be proud of that as anyone else.
If we all want the UMA to be legitimate, respected and truly representative of the fandom, then we all need to work together and help the UMA staff promote and grow the awards. The artists, fans, Furplanet, Dream Field Comics, Rabbit Valley, whoever.
I have no hard feelings towards Fuzzwolf (although I feel a bit like I got kicked in the stomach out of nowhere) and hope that he can listen to all sides of the argument and maybe even change his opinion down the track! Or not, which is fine too. :3
However, you did throw a little extra curve in the argument out here in public that I'm going to call you out on:
I wish the artists and fans of all the other works in the UMA would do more to promote the Ursa Major Awards and their own nominations. The loudest complainers about our nominations are the ones who feel they should be up there, not us. I understand that would feel horrible and it doesn't seem fair when you feel you deserve to be up there too.
That's complete crap. There's no way I'm going to beat around the bush on this one. I gave the UMAs a shot and asked all our artists to have their fans vote, but we don't have as large a following as cub porn does and for once I'm really happy we're a very small company when based on a comparison like that.
My objections don't come from anything to do with FurPlanet, they come from me being a furry fan seeing something that is downright horrifying about to happen to his community. I only take the UMAs semi-seriously before this as it was. There are huge parts of the fandom that have never heard of them, the founder's own books have been nominated and won and its an easy system to manipulate if you have a big enough fan following. They don't represent what is the "best" even though that's what it says on their certificates. Its a simple popularity contest.
When there is only one publisher for cub porn fans, you're going to get all their votes regardless of what you produce. Everyone else who falls into the more general categories has their votes split amongst the everyone else who isn't into cub porn. I can only hope that the rest of us are a big enough voting group to overshadow the cub group, but we don't have the option of everyone agreeing on one product to vote for. Whether you publicly stated that or not, you know that's what your followers are going to do.
The UMAs may ultimately be meaningless, but to a passerby or a newbie to the fandom it looks really bad when you have a group claiming to highlight the very best of furry even if that contest wasn't based on any real merit and the winner is something horrifying to behold, it looks really bad for furry as a community.
I will extend this to other extreme fetishes. I don't want to see explicitly vore, scat, snuff, Nazi, etc fetish-based publications representing the best of our fandom either.
I don't mind that these fucked up kinks exist. I don't engage in them so I just ignore them. I do think though, that we should all be keeping our fucked up kinks out of the limelight. They're private vices to share and enjoy with others who have the same interests. They don't need to be given the furry equivalent of an Oscar or Hugo award.
step two: if NONE are removed, add a new award category (or categories) for best adult work, best adult graphic comic, etc
problem solved
(i am not for or against the argument)
And really, for anyone who can't be mature enough to realize that unbiased recognition of a good publication is not fandom-wide endorsement of the materials or the at best loosely related issue of pedophilia... we really don't need you here. We have enough trolls and idiots with bigger mouths than brains.
Although I've never bought an issue of Softpaw, I can't really dispute that their quality is great compared to the other 2-3 artist grayscale newspaper quality books I'm used to. They use COLOR. They pull from a BUNCH of good artists. They make big books full of pretty pictures. To say that's not deserving of Best simply because some newcomer might think we're a bunch of pedos and freak... I can't really endorse such thinking. It's only one step removed from saying "We're not going to nominate 'Insert gay movie name here' or 'Insert violent movie name here' for film awards because it'd make us look like a bunch of queers and psychopaths." No. It doesn't work that way. The only reason this is any different is because it's something which hasn't been tackled in mainstream movies, partly because most people are too immature to deal with it, and partly because it's kinda difficult to portray such things as you can't use real kids. Although now that I think about it, I did see a short film 3 years back in one of my classes about this girl (underage) who is home alone, and this creepy man comes by, and he basically persuades her to consent to sex on the implied threat that he'll kill her family if she doesn't...
Cub porn is not something I'm into, nor is it something I care about particularly in any way, shape, or form. However, a lot of people like it, and an equal number of people seem to think those people all want to go and act out the scenes depicted in the porn they've been viewing. Babyfurs like and often draw cub porn, and the vast, vast majority of them harbour absolutely no desire to sexually molest children. Thus, calling people who buy and read softpaw magazine (i.e. the people who voted it into the Ursa Major Awards) "kiddie fuckers" is at best a bit extreme, and at worst a completely unwarranted attack on a harmless section of the vast and disparate grouping of people that is the furry community.
No one is defending paedophillia. I think everyone can agree it's an utterly abhorrent and fundamentally wrong perversion of adult sexual practices, and deeply harmful to the children involved. However, what people are reacting against is your vitriolic and apparent visceral reaction against something which, to be honest, does no one any harm and provides pleasure to a large number of people. Quite a few of my friends are babyfurs, who like to look at cub porn, and are also thoroughly decent human beings. There is absolutely no basis upon which to conflate a liking for cub porn, or the fact that one is a babyfur, with paedophillia.
As for the supposed harm that will befall the fandom should the magazine in question actually win the Ursa Major Awards, its utterly and completely negligible. No one with any brain is going to look at that and say "oh yes, all furries are a bunch of paedophiles", and if they are then why on earth would we want them anywhere near something we're associated with anyway? I do agree with you that there are far better things out there -for instance Circles or Heathen City- that would merit the award far more. However, Softpaw has been voted in, its the rules of the event, and changing them effectively just to spite a certain set of people because "you don't want them giving the community a bad name" smacks of massive insecurity.
Oh, and can everyone stop taking this so bloody seriously. We're people who like to pretend to be fuzzy anthropomorphic animals for christ's sake!
The main point I see is that there are so many other things so much better out there Circles...Heathen City...etc... If your going to give out an award for "the best" you had better be looking at those more then softpaw. Giving out an award to somoene or something that doesnt deserve it...just weakens the concept and validity of the Award.
Your a music man right?? Remember when Jethro Tull won the 1989 Grammy for best Metal band???
Need I say more?