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Windows Update: A virus waiting to invade your computer.
9 years ago
The footer is the truth.
Thats right, Windows Update now installs viruses to your machine! While technically its not a virus, it does still do bad things, because Microsoft can't be bothered to test their updates prior to release and instead force it out there on everyone else. If you are a Windows 10 user, you will not be able to refuse an update because MS has decided you don't have rights anymore because you are their bitch and they own your computer and you. They can install and uninstall whatever the fuck they want whenever the fuck they want to you machine and you can't do anything about it. Because Windows 10 allows them to do this.
The latest update, KB3147458 was installed on my machine and it caused my internet driver to stop working properly. Once I uninstalled this update, everything was fixed, however, less than a day later, they forced the update on me again without my permission or anything, even though I've had Windows Update disabled for a while.
Other users have reported that this update breaks other drivers, and causes a very large amount of other issues, some of which are so fucking obvious that even 10 minutes of testing could have revealed the issues. But Microsoft uses clean slate machines to test everything, if they test at all, so they won't find issues because if it boots up, there's no problem and the rest is clearly user error which is likely what Microsoft will tell you if you complain. By forcing updates regardless of what you want, they are saying that you are too stupid to be in control of your own machine so they are gonna control it for you. By that logic, Microsoft says everyone who owns Windows 10 is a retard, and requires MS to fix things for you whether you want it or not. Aren't you glad Microsoft is treating you all like retards?
Fix the problem, disable Windows Updatein services, and refer to a registry file I use to disable windows update notifications to that may or may not work anymore.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/7255568/ - It used to work, but it doesn't seem to anymore, after Microsoft discovered people using it, they likely released an update that fixes the update process so it can't be disabled via Registry anymore. If this continues, I may have to go into Linux and delete WindowsUpdate.exe or whatever the update exe is called from my machine so that it can't ever run again, drastic measures to keep my machine safe.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/v.....dlistening.png
The latest update, KB3147458 was installed on my machine and it caused my internet driver to stop working properly. Once I uninstalled this update, everything was fixed, however, less than a day later, they forced the update on me again without my permission or anything, even though I've had Windows Update disabled for a while.
Other users have reported that this update breaks other drivers, and causes a very large amount of other issues, some of which are so fucking obvious that even 10 minutes of testing could have revealed the issues. But Microsoft uses clean slate machines to test everything, if they test at all, so they won't find issues because if it boots up, there's no problem and the rest is clearly user error which is likely what Microsoft will tell you if you complain. By forcing updates regardless of what you want, they are saying that you are too stupid to be in control of your own machine so they are gonna control it for you. By that logic, Microsoft says everyone who owns Windows 10 is a retard, and requires MS to fix things for you whether you want it or not. Aren't you glad Microsoft is treating you all like retards?
Fix the problem, disable Windows Updatein services, and refer to a registry file I use to disable windows update notifications to that may or may not work anymore.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/7255568/ - It used to work, but it doesn't seem to anymore, after Microsoft discovered people using it, they likely released an update that fixes the update process so it can't be disabled via Registry anymore. If this continues, I may have to go into Linux and delete WindowsUpdate.exe or whatever the update exe is called from my machine so that it can't ever run again, drastic measures to keep my machine safe.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/v.....dlistening.png
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/.....8-b5c5a69be530
I even have a post on page 68.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/.....9be530?page=68
Almost 800 people now have issues with the latest update.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
Have fun blocking Updates
What does this virus do exactly?
If you would kindly link the full article/forum as to your evidence of this, I would like to read it.
Also, you can just continuously delay the update by scheduling it way down in the future. It doesn't force it on you, and I've delayed updates for many months before I finally let it as a test. Plus uninstalling updates are still perfectly possible on Windows 10 relatively easily.
Bugs do happen with updates, this is common and nothing to really fret over. Any company who releases updates test their software on limited amounts of hardware to check for how it handles and it can't satisfy every machine. There's gonna be problems with the code, and that's why there are people, like myself, who report such bugs to them and they commonly will release a quick hotfix on it within a day or two if it's major. For a general consumer, they commonly do their research to fix it, ask a friend, or call someone for assistance, or simply uninstall the update and make the updates delay themselves.
Ubuntu just released 16.04 LTS and I couldn't get it to work properly because nothing really functions with it yet, specifically the installation of .deb files through Software Installer and using Oracle Java and OpenJava to launch programs in integrated development environments.
I am merely stating some facts, not trying to argue. Please don't make accusations that aren't true.
"If you are a Windows 10 user, you will not be able to refuse an update because MS has decided you don't have rights anymore because you are their bitch and they own your computer and you."
Is completely false. Yes they make you update, but you decide when it is installed, period.
I did it once. It's enough to be away from the computer or not be awake at the time you've scheduled the restart on, and it'll restart, because that's what happened to me, and expecting me to remember which time I "postponed" it to (or even jotting it in my calendar) is an unreasonable expectation IMO. So yeah, it kinda does force it on you still...
I also recall a case where Windows would prevent you from postponing a restart any further if you do it a lot. I don't know if MS ended up "patching" it, or you just didn't reach that point with them, nor do I have time to invest in finding it among the "how to postpone the upgrade" articles...
> Plus uninstalling updates are still perfectly possible on Windows 10 relatively easily.
"Relatively easily" was the Uninstall option in the "Show updates" list. Downloading an external tool (that, mind you, didn't even exist until Microsoft was forced to make it after the driver conflict with NVidia) - crosses the line of being relatively easily in my book...
These are the only two things I don't agree with in your post :P
Regardless, I can't stand Windows Update and the atrocity that MS made out of it in Windows 10. Good thing there's GPEdit and Task Scheduler through which restarts are scheduled...
It gives you a 1 hour warning, and a 15 min warning. And I postpone my updates two weeks out from time of download at 6 PM MST on the dot purposely when they come out, except this last one, so they have a chance to release any hotfixes to patch something that may have or not happened. It's a good habit to get into. If you have trouble remembering, remember the length of time you give it to update before it actually performs it. Two weeks is usually a good window. I am all for the "if it's not broken don't fix it" thing, but most updates are security patches for vulnerabilities. Also I only really follow that rule when it comes to drivers, such as graphics or motherboard. Only update if I must. When it comes to Java, Flash, and Operating System, I typically do them as quickly as possible, usually in a week or two.
> "Relatively easily" was the Uninstall option in the "Show updates" list. Downloading an external tool (that, mind you, didn't even exist until Microsoft was forced to make it after the driver conflict with NVidia) - crosses the line of being relatively easily in my book...
Settings - Update and Security - Advanced Options - View your Update History - Uninstall Updates
Third party tools aren't necessary.
What if, I happen to be asleep, while running a 7 hour video encoding? Or am uploading a video t youtube that took 13 hours before I went to sleep and had 6 hours remaining? And suddenly windows says "you got 1 hour before we force you against your will to reboot and abort everything you're doing because we're assholes!" "15 minutes left, but since you're asleep, our notification is useless and you're about to lose all your progress, because we at Microsuck, are assholes!"
So how is this warning useful, if you aren't at your machine to stop it, hmm? What if you're a scientist, currently processing a complex biochemical digitally engineered test run of a new virus that can cure all cancer, and the projected time to complete he analysis of your tests on the sample you created will take 19 hours, so you head home for the day, and return the next day to find that your sample has expired because it wasn't meant to last more than 24 hours, and the test results are all lost because Windows just had an update? Windows just killed the cure for cancer, because they don't want you to have a choice. How would you feel then?
Do you remember in Windows 7, you used to be able to click "Notify, but don't download and don't install"? Why couldn't they have that here? Are they calling Windows 10 users retards incapable of being allowed to make a choice on their own machine's well-being? Or are they just dickwads taking total control?
> Settings - Update and Security - Advanced Options - View your Update History - Uninstall Updates
I did this by the way. 12 hours later my machine was forced to reboot again to install the update I uninstalled and it fucked up my drivers, again. I went and yelled at them on the microsuck forum post about the update along with 700 other people who are outraged by it. They don't care. Microsuck, just doesn't care.
As for the link you requested, it is in this comment: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:49635736
So how is this warning useful, if you aren't at your machine to stop it, hmm? What if you're a scientist, currently processing a complex biochemical digitally engineered test run of a new virus that can cure all cancer, and the projected time to complete he analysis of your tests on the sample you created will take 19 hours, so you head home for the day, and return the next day to find that your sample has expired because it wasn't meant to last more than 24 hours, and the test results are all lost because Windows just had an update? Windows just killed the cure for cancer, because they don't want you to have a choice. How would you feel then?
Do you remember in Windows 7, you used to be able to click "Notify, but don't download and don't install"? Why couldn't they have that here? Are they calling Windows 10 users retards incapable of being allowed to make a choice on their own machine's well-being? Or are they just dickwads taking total control.
Plan ahead? Responsibility? Set out a time way ahead on the update? There are tons of things you can do. Also most people who run some sort of engineering software run a form of Linux, usually Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, openSUSE, or some custom thing they have for the software they run, and none of which doesn't have this forced update thing. It's rare to see Windows for such purposes and commonly run Windows 7 because they are too cheap to upgrade or it isn't necessary for their needs.
> I did this by the way. 12 hours later my machine was forced to reboot again to install the update I uninstalled and it fucked up my drivers, again. I went and yelled at them on the microsuck forum post about the update along with 700 other people who are outraged by it. They don't care. Microsuck, just doesn't care.
Then you didn't postpone it properly and seemingly ignored all warnings. Sorry but they exist and are fact. There isn't any argument for this and whatever you say beyond that point is null and void. It is your fault. If everyone I know can successfully do this besides you, including myself, you're doing it wrong.
And commonly from the lack of responses, it sounds like a managerial problem on their end, which doesn't surprise me from a large corporation. El Capitan on Macintosh computers had many problems too and Apple community = useless as well as their customer service. At least Microsoft can provide reasonable solutions when they actually do respond or a bit of research always helps.
> As for the link you requested, it is in this comment: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:49635736
Based on reading comments, most of it was driver related problems. Updates tend to do that, even on Windows 7 machines. :P What happens when you have billions of lines of code to run an OS and trying to update them. Not trying to defend Microsoft on this one, but the reality is they can only do so much with their patches before the companies that make these drivers themselves have to update as well to create compatibility on their end. It is their responsibility to make drivers for their products to work on the OS, not the other way around. What's interesting to me though is why none of the generic drivers are working.
Postpone it? What the fuck? I uninstalled the update, was forced to reboot, and Windows Update silently, without telling me shit, downloaded it again in the background, in a way I can't stop it, you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO STOP UPDATES FROM DOWNLOADING UNDER ANY CIRCIMSTANCES UNLESS YOU HACK YOUR REGISTRY AND INSTALL BLOCKERS FOR WINDOWS UPDATE, and it told me "Windows has updated, you need to reboot or we will just keep nagging you!" Except, I was asleep when it did this, so it rebooted for me. Because it saw that I am normally asleep at that time so it does its updates then. "We see that you are normally inactive around 3:15AM, so we have scheduled the reboot for then. Click here to change the time!" *message fades away soon* *Sleeping victim does not know what virus MS has just implanted into his machine!*
"Plan ahead? Responsibility? Set out a time way ahead on the update?"
Set a time ahead of the update? What, only do research after a tuesday? What about unexpected updates? What if you just installed updates so you figure no more updates will happen, so you start your 36 hour simulation to see how your new biochemical agent will work against cancer cells, and you leave your machine connected so that you can remotely connect to your machine and check on the progress at any time or send notes to your machine and such, and then leave with friends after a long week of complex research, and suddenly a second update hits to fix something in the first one or that MS forgot and whoops, you're not around but hey, your cancer research was just destroyed for an update because, you weren't looking at you fucking screen 24/7! :O
The point I'm trying to drive through, is that you shouldn't be required to be looking at your god damn computer 24/7 to be there in order to click postpone on an update. Your machine should not be allowed to shut down and reboot without you there to say "Yes, you can reboot now or then". Unless you are like one of those people who doesn't use a computer for important things so you just click reboot whenever the fuck the menu pops up and don't care what is closed and lost forever. Then you can just click the "Allow MS to do whatever the fuck they want" button. However, that button is currently checkboxed right now as it is, MS can do whatever the fuck they want to your computer now. They even uninstall programs from your computer during major updates. Furcadia, for example was uninstalled from someone's machine from what I heard. Microsoft has a problem with Furcadia now? MS hates furries? Along with a few other programs I heard about, but anyway.
I want to be able to check a box that says "Do not download, Do not install, Notify me only." Like I did on Windows 7. Now, my machine is even more in danger, because I don't know if here is an update or not and I'm not allowed to check for updates anymore because I entirely disabled Windows Update, and it is entirely Microsoft's fault. Microsoft made my machine more insecure by forcing me to disable update entirely from being able to connect to the internet or run. Instead of just adding in that ONE FUCKING BUTTON that would let me decide if I want to download and install updates at that time.
Hell, they even download updates on a metered connection without your permission, simply because you're not allowed to set a LAN connection as metered, only Wireless.
How is that even relevant? You're being completely irrational and idiotic and it can't even relate. Newer updates get the same rules applied to them as they are installed as the previous ones you've set in the first place. If you delayed it, even if a new one is installed, they will be delayed that same length of time as the previous ones.
> The point I'm trying to drive through, is that you shouldn't be required to be looking at your god damn computer 24/7 to be there in order to click postpone on an update. Your machine should not be allowed to shut down and reboot without you there to say "Yes, you can reboot now or then". Unless you are like one of those people who doesn't use a computer for important things so you just click reboot whenever the fuck the menu pops up and don't care what is closed and lost forever. Then you can just click the "Allow MS to do whatever the fuck they want" button. However, that button is currently checkboxed right now as it is, MS can do whatever the fuck they want to your computer now. They even uninstall programs from your computer during major updates. Furcadia, for example was uninstalled from someone's machine from what I heard. Microsoft has a problem with Furcadia now? MS hates furries? Along with a few other programs I heard about, but anyway.
My entire point of the conversation above was to get you to realize/acknowledge there is checks and balances to such things, and you can stop a lot of the under-the-hood controls if you actually bothered to understand/acknowledge them, but I am arguing to a child who can't acknowledge anything or even understand alternative reasons for such things. All I am seeing from you is "Windows 10 sucks. 'Microsuck' does this. Blah blah."
I have never in the entire time I've used a computer since Windows XP - 10, OS X, or any Linux distro I've used, seen an update completely uninstall something, nor have even heard of it being done. That is impossible without even going through an uninstaller process, which are usually made by the third party. :/ If the registry pointers were deleted/corrupted for some reason, yes I can see someone being confused, but the likely explanation is someone who forgot they uninstalled it and then blamed Windows for it. Most people also fuck their registry over if they use a third-party uninstaller like Revo Uninstaller which if you click the advanced scan, it will pull ALL the registry dependencies for that program, not just the ones installed. Wouldn't be the first time.
Windows 10 is new, and takes a new approach on a lot of things. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't mean it needs to be bashed for irrational/logical fallacies. If you don't like it, don't use it! It's that simple. If you hate Windows so much, slap a dual-boot of Debian, Ubuntu with the KDE desktop, elementaryOS, Linux Mint with the Cinnamon environment or a derivative of Arch Linux and use that. Save the "I shouldn't have to card", you can't make everyone happy. :/
> Hell, they even download updates on a metered connection without your permission, simply because you're not allowed to set a LAN connection as metered, only Wireless.
Yeah that was a dumb decision on their part I'll give you that. If you're on a Pro, Enterprise, or Ultimate edition of Windows 10 though, you can restrict it via Group Policy.
How do you delay something you don't know is coming hmm? You leave for 36 hours. Suddenly an update is downloaded, it pops up a window saying a reboot has been scheduled for 3:15AM. But you aren't there to click delay. You get back 2 days later, your research is gone, and windows proudly says "We destroyed your research so we could update! :O You weren't around to tell us no, so, its you're fault not ours!"
> I have never in the entire time I've used a computer since Windows XP - 10, OS X, or any Linux distro I've used, seen an update completely uninstall something, nor have even heard of it being done.
Someone doesn't have access to the interwebs? Here, lemme link it for you:
http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/23/w.....ithout-asking/
"So, to deal with that problem, the Windows update removes the active versions of these programs and files them away in your “Windows.old” folder where they can do no harm. While this may help most people who don’t want to deal with troubleshooting their system, some PC powerusers are taking issue with Windows 10 removing software without asking."
“Microsoft should ask for permission, and not for forgiveness. I would be fine with it if Windows 10 said ‘Hey, this application can cause problems and we recommend that you uninstall it. Do you want us to do that for you?’ and then shuts it’s mouth about it if you say ‘No,’ but they shouldn’t just uninstall it without prior warning.”
“The Microsoft Services Agreement allows Microsoft to change or discontinue certain apps or content where we deem your security is at risk,” a Microsoft spokesperson told GamesBeat in August.
http://lifehacker.com/windows-10-up.....tif-1762347989
"On my own machine, I found that system information tool Speccy was no longer on my computer. Other users are reporting that apps including CCleaner, HWMonitor, and CPU-Z are also missing after an update."
http://www.howtogeek.com/243581/win.....ithout-asking/
"However, Windows doesn’t provide any notice that it’s removed a program–the program will just appear to vanish from your system."
"Many people claim it removed hardware drivers like Intel Rapid Storage Technology and AMD Catalyst Control Center, too. In some cases, people even reported that it removed PDF viewers and antivirus programs (perhaps outdated ones). Confusingly, it seems like the Windows update removed these programs from some computers but not others."
So you see, Microsoft can remove programs they choose to whenever they damn well please based on the terms of agreement you sign by installing Windows 10, which by the way, they are AGRESSIVELY pushing on everyone. I've got several of those programs they uninstall, installed rightnow and none of them cause blue screens or issues of any kind, none of them are a security risk either. CPU-Z, HWMonitor, they are both well known and safe. But MS doesn't appear to like hardware monitoring tools because in an update, they fucked up my "PCMeter.exe" and I can't get it back because its no longer getting updates. It seems as though they disallowed its ability for gadgets to read it, but I dunno. I installed a 3rd party Gadget app to get gadgets back like Windows 7 has. Because Gadgets are nice, and are not a security risk like Microsuck claims. The risk, is people went to risky sites and downloaded bad gadgets that gave others back door access to your machine and such. That would be like prohibiting the installation of any non-microsoft program to your computer because some people pirate games and get viruses.
> If you're on a Pro, Enterprise, or Ultimate edition of Windows 10 though, you can restrict it via Group Policy.
"If you pay more to Microsoft, you'll be able to disable some features you don't like!"
> but I am arguing to a child who can't acknowledge anything or even understand alternative reasons for such things.
No, you refuse to understand that Microsoft is calling all of us retards. Telling us we are too fucking stupid to be allowed to make decisions for our own computers so they are now allowed to make decisions for us. After I deleted Cortana, sometime after the directory I used to delete it, suddenly became locked and I could never access it again and no matter how much I try to promote myself to system admin or whatever security I need to access the folder, I can't do it. I believe Microsoft saw people going in and manually removing bad apps that can't be uninstalled, and blocked access so you can't remove apps anymore that they don't want you to.
I understand why they force updates. I've seen people with heavily outdated machines that have all these issues that were fixed after I made them update. However, they should always be letting the USER decide. And if they decide to disable updates, then anything that happens as a result of that is entirely the user's fault.
1. "most updates are security patches"
Hah, that's hilarious. Like that "Get Windows 10" update that spams your screen with "GET IT NOW" for all non-10 users? That was a disguised fake security update in Windows 7, hidden along with the other security updates. It was just labeled like all the rest "security update". All it was, was adware, trying to make you get Windows 10 even if your machine is incompatible with Windows 10. I've had to remove it from 3 machines thus far for people, who can't install Win10 because their computer can't handle it. No drivers.
2. I actually have had a forced reboot happen in the middle of a game once. The toast didn't appear because I was in a full screen application. Suddenly my computer started the "shut down" process and started installing updates, I lost all progress in my game. Because it didn't tell me there was an update scheduled while I was asleep, and it decided that 3:15AM it would reboot and I woke up at 2:30AM and loaded up a game. So.... Yea.
And a 3rd point just now; "Yes they make you update, but you decide when it is installed, period."
Would you like your lethal injection now? or 1 hour from now? Or 1 week from now? Its gonna happen! You decide when! :O
You know a specific update is going to fuck up your computer, and will damage your drivers and/or files. You can't stop it, all you can do is keep clicking delay, and there is only a certain amount of times you can do that, before they force it on you anyway and delaying becomes greyed out. Unless they fixed that, it did happen to me before. So its just delaying the injection needle over and over again till someone stabs it in your throat and pushes on the plunger.
Naming conventions. How they've always done it. It's simple advertising. Completely harmless. Also if your computer can run Windows 7, it will run Windows 10.
>Would you like your lethal injection now? or 1 hour from now? Or 1 week from now? Its gonna happen! You decide when! :O
You know a specific update is going to fuck up your computer, and will damage your drivers and/or files. You can't stop it, all you can do is keep clicking delay, and there is only a certain amount of times you can do that, before they force it on you anyway and delaying becomes greyed out. Unless they fixed that, it did happen to me before. So its just delaying the injection needle over and over again till someone stabs it in your throat and pushes on the plunger.
I've been able to delay it continuously for months. There is VERY likely a fix for any issues they created within a week or two if it's major if an update caused the problem. They wouldn't have an OS that people used if that wasn't the case. :)
Tell that to my friend who got home from work and saw the app auto downloading Windows 10 to his machine so he paniced and pulled the plug to force it to stop downloading when he couldn't make the program exit or stop no matter what he did and asked me to help him force it to go away and never come back.
"Also if your computer can run Windows 7, it will run Windows 10."
Can't. Her computer didn't have drivers for Windows 10, some of her hardware couldn't operate on Windows 10 and I had to fix her Windows 7 to stop nagging her to update to Windows 10 because Windows 10 wouldn't run properly.
"I've been able to delay it continuously for months."
Yes, because being required to hit delay over and over and never shut your computer down again, is the obvious way to fix not wanting to update. Good job. You proved to me that you support Microsoft in forcing updates against people's wills. For telling me every time that there are ways around it that don't involve Microsoft adding a new fucking option like they should have fucking done to begin with.
Task Manger, and likely malware. Windows 10 install gives you the option to cancel and you have to click buttons to allow installation.
>Can't. Her computer didn't have drivers for Windows 10, some of her hardware couldn't operate on Windows 10 and I had to fix her Windows 7 to stop nagging her to update to Windows 10 because Windows 10 wouldn't run properly.
So how come my ancient laptop can which was designed before Windows 7 came out? I know it's possible that Windows 10 can't install on some machines if the motherboard won't support it, but that's exceedingly rare.
>Yes, because being required to hit delay over and over and never shut your computer down again, is the obvious way to fix not wanting to update. Good job. You proved to me that you support Microsoft in forcing updates against people's wills. For telling me every time that there are ways around it that don't involve Microsoft adding a new fucking option like they should have fucking done to begin with.
I never defended their decision, and I disagree with it, but it's there. Get over it.
Sure - I can give it a time, but I can't predict whether or not I'll be there to prevent that restart in the future: I can be at the uni, I can be at work, I can be asleep, and unless I set up an "update renegotiation appointment" with Microsoft in my calendar, where I can be sure I'm at my computer to postpone the update, or set up reminders to do so in advance, there's a good chance that I won't be there to see the warning, and MS will get what they want and restart my system. I can't have that. I have to know exactly what state my PC is in before deciding whether it can be rebooted or not, and MS, while insisting to take control over that decision, don't have a means to make the right one for me.
Now, I heard a lot of people going on about the whole security thing and how those updates are vulnerability patches and are so important for one's computer's well-being. Frankly, I refuse to believe that. I refuse to believe that every reboot-requiring update is a security patch and think it's more of a Microsoft propaganda bullshit that's meant to legitimize this out right ridiculous process in front of people who don't know better, and since you like proof, here's an example:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3140743
- "You will be prompted to restart the computer after you apply this update."
Dare I mention, I'm yet to see a restart prompt in Windows 10 that lets me tell them "nope" and be left alone: it's either "yep", or "yep, on XXXXX at XX:XX"...
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/.....ory-windows-10
- "No new operating system features or security fixes are being introduced in this update." for that KB
So given that scenario, MS would start harassing me to restart my system for an update that doesn't even have anything to do with security! And I won't even get into how not every security patch/vulnerability is critical enough to require immediate action in the first place...
Pardon the long post, but WU is one of the most obnoxious things MS had to remake and force on us, and I wish whomever's responsible for that to spend some time on life support that ends up having to reboot to apply their security patches - when the machine "isn't in use"... -.-;
I totally get that. That's why I shut my system down before I leave if I am not doing anything on it for longer than 3 hours. Just a habit I got into because I like to keep my electric bill down and if I have to leave it on, I check to see if anything will stop my task, and alter things if necessary.
> Now, I heard a lot of people going on about the whole security thing and how those updates are vulnerability patches and are so important for one's computer's well-being. Frankly, I refuse to believe that. I refuse to believe that every reboot-requiring update is a security patch and think it's more of a Microsoft propaganda bullshit that's meant to legitimize this out right ridiculous process in front of people who don't know better, and since you like proof, here's an example:
Most updates require a restart because they are either kernel level, or system level, which can only be changed/achieved if a total restart is completed. It's irrelevant if it's a security update or not at that point. Any changes done to those for whatever reason they have, a restart is ABSOLUTELY necessary. You can't load new software in an OS like that and expect it to function at any reasonable level.
If you truly fathomed or understood what is out there in terms of malware, and what people will do to anyone, you will fully comprehend why every OS, namely Windows and Linux OS's, require so many updates so often. OS X is the only exception to this because their operating system is an utter pain in the tail to do anything with which is why malware is not as common them. Most malware created is done on either a Linux base, or Windows base.
One could make the argument "why would I be targeted? The chances of that are slim!" That is true in a sense. You may not be directly targeted, but code does exactly as it's instructed, regardless of the machine. Malware is designed to spread like a virus and infect anything and everything without discrimination. It has gotten to the point where simply opening an email, or a webpage, is enough to begin such infections and they will target every known exploit that program (malware), knows to try and infect.
Take what you will of that, but if you become a programmer, or actually truly studied how malware works, you will understand why all this is done. Updates aren't released "because we can." They can be a multitude of things from performance upgrades, code streamline, vulnerability patch, driver patch, compatibility, the list goes on. They are only as robust as the skill level of the humans that make them and it's literally impossible to make it work for every machine. Problems are gonna arise, whether we like it or not.
TL;DR: I agree with everyone above. They shouldn't have made it forced like so. It should be how Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 did it where it gave you the option to stop it. I am just trying to state facts and prevent false information from spreading like wildfire because someone said so, therefore it is. Anyone who took the time to verify such claims will realize much of the information coming from people is either wrong or exaggerated. Not all of it of course, but some is and I want to make that known.
Being an IT Major and freelance student programmer, I look into this stuff often.
That I know. You have a file in use, you need to patch it, you can't get whatever software that is to close it, but if we're no longer talking security, then it can most definitely wait without racketeering me into reboots, can it not?
> If you truly fathomed or understood what is out there in terms of malware, and what people will do to anyone, you will fully comprehend why every OS, namely Windows and Linux OS's, require so many updates so often.
I fully understand what is out there in terms of malware, and I have no problem with updates being released and applied ASAP. Hell, on Linux I run the update script every time I see that blue shield thing popping up in my tray, as well as every time I arrive at work, or even "just 'cause" - because when people see that scrolling apt-get text on my screen, they think I'm hacking the Pentagon and get instantly impressed! And I do that because I know that Linux won't spot a kernel update and set me up with an ultimatum: "either you restart now, or I'll restart it for you later", forcing me to look for a means to disable that timer each time. I won't allow such a relationship with a person, let alone an operating system!
> Take what you will of that, but if you become a programmer, or actually truly studied how malware works, you will understand why all this is done.
Good thing I don't have to become what I've already been for a while now :P
I understand why this is done. What bothers me is the Apple-esque approach to it: the approach of "we know better than you about what you need and when you need it, and anything else just doesn't make sense". Unlike Apple, though, MS just aggressively pushes their stuff on people who don't necessarily share the same views, and naturally, they are resisted to!
To think about it, maybe I would've even agreed to the whole "let's schedule a restart" idea if only I would be offered an option not to, and/or an explanation from upstairs: not the "it's essential to security" or "Windows can't work without it" or "we're very excited" bullshit, but an honest face-level answer for a change: "Restarts are annoying and intrusive, but we had to do it this way because automatic updates proved to be much more successful with protecting other software and people often unnecessarily disable and forget them in Windows, leaving their system exposed. If you really want the old `ask me` feature back, here's how to enable it:", perhaps with a "Please reconsider" note later on. That way, you treat me like an intelligent person and let me make my own decisions if your "sensible defaults" interfere with my flow, and that way you retain my (as in: a person's) respect...
Of course it's kinda too late, what with the lengths MS went through to betray our trust (e.g., the GWX nag screen update and the deliberate "obfuscation" of its description in the KB article until everyone and their mother knew what KB3035583 was). Sadly, Linux doesn't work so well with this laptop, so all I can do is take what MS give with a huge grain of salt and hope that Linux becomes more mainstream than it already seems to be among those who have had enough.
It's just easier to flatline it and make every update do so I guess. That's more or less lazy coding.
> I understand why this is done. What bothers me is the Apple-esque approach to it: the approach of "we know better than you about what you need and when you need it, and anything else just doesn't make sense". Unlike Apple, though, MS just aggressively pushes their stuff on people who don't necessarily share the same views, and naturally, they are resisted to!
Because it is honestly true. The common user doesn't really know anything. It's sort of a trade off of evils because generally never update their computers, or even restart them and then complain they never work, blaming Microsoft for their own issues. This is more common than many think, but what can ya do. I agree it shouldn't be forced, but I can see why they made such a decision in a way.
> To think about it, maybe I would've even agreed to the whole "let's schedule a restart" idea if only I would be offered an option not to, and/or an explanation from upstairs: not the "it's essential to security" or "Windows can't work without it" or "we're very excited" bullshit, but an honest face-level answer for a change: "Restarts are annoying and intrusive, but we had to do it this way because automatic updates proved to be much more successful with protecting other software and people often unnecessarily disable and forget them in Windows, leaving their system exposed. If you really want the old `ask me` feature back, here's how to enable it:", perhaps with a "Please reconsider" note later on. That way, you treat me like an intelligent person and let me make my own decisions if your "sensible defaults" interfere with my flow, and that way you retain my (as in: a person's) respect...
100% agreement. Works fantastic until to get to the very very basic user who knows nothing about computers where even this verbose explanation would be confusing, and then blame Microsoft for being too complicated. This is, unfortunately, a majority of the customer base with Microsoft and Apple. That's kind of why Apple made their OS so restrictive. Everything is done under the hood so-to-speak so those kind of complaints don't happen and it's all convenient and easy. Finding that balance between convenience/easy-to-use and complicated/more options is rather difficult. Microsoft sort of started taking the route Apple did with OS X, just overdone it and it blew up a little, whereas Apple found a fairly good balance. Macintosh Computers, love or hate them, are rated very high for a reason and me having used OS X personally as a hackintosh, I can definitely see why people love it. People look for user-friendliness more than anything out of a computer. Thankfully, only small portion of the customer base has issues with Windows 10, as stated in the above posts with Vas. Less than 1000 people reported problems, which translates to about <5% of the total Windows 10 userbase for those who didn't report anything on average.
> Sadly, Linux doesn't work so well with this laptop, so all I can do is take what MS give with a huge grain of salt and hope that Linux becomes more mainstream than it already seems to be among those who have had enough.
Which distro were you using? :O Just curious
Thank you for not being such an aggressive ass and actually state real facts and use proper logic, unlike Vas above. I feel like I can have an actual friendly debate/conversation with you.
I stick with the KDE edition of Mint, which works awesomely on my work laptop (8GB of RAM, swap partition disabled, and there's never a problem!). With the more gaming-oriented Lenovo Y510P and Y700 things aren't so smooth, as some important things didn't work out of the box (namely: the brightness controls and NVidia's proprietary drivers). Latest Kubuntu wasn't any better. I guess I should stop buying overpowered laptops - they feel deliberately Linux-incompatible :\
> Thank you for not being such an aggressive ass and actually state real facts and use proper logic, unlike Vas above. I feel like I can have an actual friendly debate/conversation with you.
No problem xP I have my moments, though. It becomes increasingly difficult to change perspectives when one feels constantly alienated by companies that insist on doing the exact opposite and make your life hard just to try and make others' lives easier... It also might just be more mentally healthy to scream at them for being assholes instead every once in a while >.<
With nvidias propreitary drivers, likely not compatible with the kernel version you were using. I commonly use the additional drivers application that comes with Linux Mint or Ubuntu, which allow you to select which drivers to use, namely X.Org or Nvidias Propreitary.
And yeah, that's the application that I was trying to use to switch the drivers, but it took longer than I could care to wait to "apply changes" (and turst me - I'm patient). Killing and restarting it didn't do me any good and I had no time to deal with it any more than that... Of course if I had that fixed, I'd be facing more challenges, like trying to properly tune the DPI for the 15.6" 4K screen so that the fonts don't look annoyingly blurry, then there's the "subwoofer" thing at the bottom of the laptop that doesn't yet work properly on Linux, from what I've read (and NOT heard).
In other words: too much gimmick, but it looks and sounds oh so nice... :\
I'm not trying to be "agressive" and "an ass" or whatever, I'm just fed up with people defending Microsoft for the decisions they made, because I'm not allowed to decide anymore what happens to my machine. I can't go back to Windows 7, because there are no Windows 7 drivers for my new laptop. It came with Windows 10 on it, and it can't go back. I'm forced against my will to use Windows 10 for the rest of my life, because I want to game and I can't do that on Linux because Linux doesn't support half the stuff I own on steam, and yes I'm including that Linux emulator thing that I can't remember the name of that lets you run games inside it that were designed for Windows.
Microsoft is treating me like they treat everyone else. A retard. This frustrates and infuriates me. I know how to use my own god damn computer and I should be the one to decide what happens on MY computer. Not Microsoft.
had a windows 7 update somehow utterly mess with my computer to the point I can not even update any drivers or play most online games. Had tech friend bash into it and find after 5 hours that the registration seems borked to the point it locks any port from updating info, so I am hoping for a clean overlay of win 7 from disk, forced upgrade to 8..or a core and reinstall.
ALL from those damn auto updates sneaking in and I guess I was the 1 in a mill that got a crappy update that glitched anything gamewise. Heck I cant even update windows updates atm which is the height of amusing sillyness. This came tween april 11 and april 14th btw.
Hope others dont have the same issue but alas windows simply does not care.
Gaia bless
Pakesh_De
Snoofy old burr