No halo alien stuff. Plasma, and stuff on that idea. Maybe lazer stuff, but I dunno. Sniper rifles are sexy tho.

Well, considering the American military already has plasma and laser based weapons, I'm sure by then it'll be something along those lines. The 'energy force' everyone always depics at the clearish/white blasts from guns (and go pewpewpew and aren't lasers xD ) I think are completely impossible in our realm.
Aagin, I know -nothing- about guns, but the projectile weapon is too much of a sentient (or human even) thing, so much so that I don't think guns with bullets will be phased out anytime soon.

I could imagine better safeties being put into the weapons. Like some kind of DNA reader on each gun so only a certain person can fire each one. A homing bullet could be an interesting idea too, lock on using the scope and the bullet zooms in on the locked target.

Only people not in a combat role want that. The last thing you want is to not be able to use a weapon, especially if someone else goes down.

Yeah but he asked improvement in general, not improvements for people specifically in the army etc :P

The targeting bullet sounds good for combat though <,<

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Mainly this is for the military since the major characters are almost all military folks.

K, just the lock on ammo then <,<;

For realistic military design, I doubt people will even be involved in the combat. Little rovers armed with guns, either remote controlled or autonomous. For a more dramatic flair, terminator style robots. I don't see ballistics going away anytime soon, with higher tech guns using caseless ammunition and, propellants depending, possibly higher velocity rounds (for smaller bullets and even more ammo in the magazine). Infantry would likely be a last-ditch effort, except, of course, for the purpose of drama and storytelling.

That`s something only some politicans want. Not the police, not the armed forces.

The only real safety is between your ears ;)

Imagine you can not use the gun your buddy hands you in the foxhole or from someone who does not need it anymore as yours is broken ( that happens ).

That is about the last thing you want. So no, the .gov will never go that way for a reason.

But I would think that plasma etc might be available by then. Cartridge based guns will NOT be a thing of the past tho, and caseless firearms still won`t be around in numbers.

Remember, one of the most important things when it comes to guns is: KISS.

Again, not talking about people that are in the police or army :P

I mean like a family where the father has the gun and they have kids roaming around <,<

If anything, if they put DNA into guns for the army etc they would include the DNA of everyone in the group and not just one person for every gun. That way only the hired cops or army people etc. would be able to use them but if say a thief got his hands on one, it would be useless to him.

Just get your DNA added as a part of the hiring process and there you go, problem solved @_@

Problem is that the Army AND Police Forces already decided that they do not only not want it, but they will avoid it like the plague. It would cause a logistical nightmare for everyone involved. And the chance to get sued for a few millions if it ever fails and gets an Officer killed because his gun won`t fire are just too high ( one of the main reasons it flopped )

The thief thing just opens an opportunity for a completely new industry.."DNA hacked / codefree guns"

Again, as a gun owner I do NOT want that system anywhere around me and I bet that NONE of the bodyguards of the politicans who propose it will have it.

Overengineered crap is just that..crap. Even in 200 years simple is still King.

Difference of opinion I suppose XD

Plus it's not like the government always passed the smartest of regulations throughout the years lol

Well, do you want realistic repreentation of guns or just some nifty Sci-Fi weaponry? Well, for some refrences, you can look at my PhotoBucket account here:

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y1.....ci-Fi/Weapons/

I posted all kinds od guns there, sci-fi ones as you might guess. Take a look.

Well, I belive that Railguns would be a standart in the 22nd along with the first enrgy bsed weapons on plasma basis or something like that.

I suppose I am looking for a combination. For the characters, the hand held weapons will be more based on out hand held weapons of today just with the modifications and improvements that would perhaps evolve over the next two centuries. The aliens may have weapons that are very different in design and what they do. Railguns that are hand guns are an interesting idea, I wonder if that can be done with recoil concerns and miniaturization needed for the energy requirements.

The images you have linked are great though, wonderful for references.

Well, we are talking about tech that is 100 years in the future, till then we may have managed to create powerful energy cells and speical recoil reduction systems so we can create handheld railguns or even advance into the field of particle weapons.

Well, I uploaded some more pics on my photobucket account, so take a look if you find anything useful there.

okay lets go through the options....

Flechette rounds, propelled by gauss fields, these would travel at hypersonic velocities and do phenomenal damage.

Electrolaser technology, on a low level laser beam a high charge of electricity is transmitted.

Masers, a microwave frequency laser that literally cooks the opponent.

Variable frequency laser technology would allow for lasers tunable to be usuable underwater and are functional in space.

Then there are smart weapon tech, homing bullets and the like.

Energy weapons take a lot of energy, so those are more realistic for vehicles, not handheld use. Otherwise, you're going to be lugging around batteries and huge capacitor banks to charge for release. Field effect weapons, or short burst weapons are another story. Those can store a charge in a small cap bank, but your firing rate is a bit slow.

Small is the word. Unless you are doing long range work, the push is always smaller and lighter to make it easier to carry (strap on a field pack and start running - see how far you go). But a lighter firearm means more of the backwards energy needs to be absorbed by something other than a big heavy rifle. Muzzle brakes are not uncommon. A friend of mine who was a presidential bodyguard had a .22LR target pistol with a muzzle brake. There was almost no movement with it.

Inertial's the key. Even with energy weapons, you're going to have a kick backwards if you're sending a stream of electrons forward. The coils are going to react to the natural E-M fields and twist slightly. These all have to be acted against. I see kinetic weapons still being the main thing for troops. Look at the changes over the last 100 years. The Springfield 1903 - Garrand M1 - Springfield M14 - Colt M16 - and now the M4. The ability to burst fire, but take single shots with high accuracy are what troops want. As well as a shotgun to clear rooms, and a hand gun for close quarters work.

The latest wave has been the desire for non-lethal weapons to capture high value targets and get information from them (or remove them from use by the enemy).

I think Adam Warren did a great job in the "Dirty Pair" series with the weapons he gave the Lovely Angels (go Kei!!!).

Actually, one interesting thing I could think of would be an energy weapon that has a big bulky ammo drum with six shots, each cartridge the size of one of those mini-grenades, and good for one shot... something that just popped into my head when I was reading your post there. It would look like a grenade launcher, but it would shoot energy blasts.

As far as non-lethal weapons, there was a big hubbub of objection lately because the military was developing splat guns or something like that which directly stimulated the pain receptors, as a 'safe' weapon for crowd control, and no one wanted that idea.

Yeah, I wondered about energy weapons myself, some substantial miniaturization in power cells would be required for eve the heavy rifles, let alone the lighter ones and sidearms. I imagine, especially for sidearms. that they would be more advanced versions of the sidearms of today.

I do wonder about railguns and other particle weapons, how much recoil would their be in such a weapon, especially if we have one that fires at hyper-velocity using some kind of mass driver.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpu.....ot;>Bullpup designs</a> seem to be the way of the future, especially for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person.....;PDWs</a>; and other small arms meant for urban warfare. More traditional rifle grips are likely to stick around for larger weapons meant to be used at distance.

Handguns are likely to go smaller, as bullet designs get better about penetration & damage potential through ballistic design and improvements in propulsion. But, I doubt the 9mm round or .45 ACP will disappear, even in 100 years, but I expect the latter would be used by "grognards" who still prefer mass for penetration.

Shotguns will never go away. A good scattergun is just too damn useful in urban combat, especially indoors. I expect those will keep the general designs seen nowadays, especially combat shotguns.

I would expect stranger systems, such as magnetic propulsion (aka railguns) to be the domain of larger sniper rifles or machine guns, maybe the occasional "hand cannon" pistol.

Energy weapons, as :isidora: points out, are still pretty hypothetical. Maybe they would show up as a special-use item, like a laser-cutter or a plasma blaster (for blowing up door locks in a handgun sized package).

Wow, I completely fucked up the linking there. I need to figure out what markup this place uses... and I can't edit the post or delete it. x.x

Markups: http://wiki.furaffinity.net/index.p.....Tags_and_Codes

Also, they sometimes fail, as in my post further down this page. XD

Fur Affinity really needs to implement an "Edit post" link on pretty much every place you can edit a post...lol

I came up with an idea in highschool about guns strapped to someones wrist and its fired using neuron feedback (AKA mind control)

Main problem with that is that unless you have it anchored along your entire forearm as some sort of forearm armored suit dealie, you're prbably looking at the feedback messing you up. But it brings to mind very fun visuals.

like this one? http://www.ospreygraphix.com/othera.....er/weapon3.jpg

Something like that, yes...

But it occurs to me after the fact that even that wouldn't be enough - the kickback is usually braced against your palm, with a normal gun. With a bracer-gun like that, there's no 'back' for it to get braced against. It tries to slide up your arm, which could get a little painful depending on how well you fit into the bracer. You might need to stretch the gun-mount back past the elbow to get the proper support.

I'm not sure. It's a complex problem for a cool idea.

there is always the one that no one seems to consider a weapon and thats sonic weaponry a high enough frequency would blow someones ear drums to pieces would not be fatal but they wouldn't stand up for a very long time. also it has been proven you can damage if not completely distroy most materials with a heavy enough sonic blast

That's an interesting idea!

your welcome

Realistically speaking, firearms in the next three hundred years or so are likely to move away from cartridge-based ammunition and lean more towards flechette ammunition.

Plasma and laser weaponry as you see in Star Wars and Star Trek and such are not really feasible in the way that they're portrayed in science fiction. Although plasma is a bit more feasible than laser weaponry. While it's true there are some laser-based weapons in use today, they're more along the lines of anti-ballistic and anti-air-to-air missile defense, rather than person-to-person combat.

The U.S. Army is saying otherwise and pretty much ruled that out in the early 1990s. All current future gun design today is based on an ordinary bullet, with either a plastic case or caseless design.

The Flechette ammo I mean.

I imagined most of the hand held weapons from side arms to assault rifles would still use either kinetic based projectiles with improvements in accuracy, size, distance, etc. or be some sort of particle weapon and /or mass driver style weaponry. I really do not like the laser idea, except maybe as an alien weapon of some kind.

How they do damage isn't going to matter as much as the aiming mechanism. Stuff like bullets, missiles, lasers and the like will still be good options in two centuries, but you'll have to be able to aim at threatening targets with millisecond reflexes if you're expecting to come up against anything with automated targetting, so you'll need to be able to auto-aim yourself... It all becomes a matter of robots vs. robots, but some of the robots are gun shaped and are carried by humans.

Think in terms of rifles that look like the current long pole with a handle style, but with a turret on the end that can swivel in practically any direction and fire without having to turn the whole gun.

gasp THAT'S IT! pocket monster robots that transform into guns

like Pikachu or Haro crossed with Megatron or something like that. Or if R2D2 was a gun.

thanks for the idea :0

I am thinking ... Smaller, lighter and more accurate. Also a focus on small weapons with significant damage ability, along the lines of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)]Davy Crockett nuclear rifle[\url].

I see a strong division of weaponry.

Low end will have basic infantry gear such as rifles and pistols, bayonets and knives. All will be technologically more advanced, but quite robust to put up with everyday hard use and harsh environments, something like how an 1800's revolver can be operated with a single bullet and a mainspring/hammer, as long as the barrel is still good, even missing the trigger and handle - Really simple, very tough, and effective at short range. I see bullets staying similar to how they are now, but with added features like zero-friction coatings. Bullets would possibly be more standardized, to work on just about anything, with some type of variable charge (perhaps in function something like a compressed-air rifle, with a charge separate from the bullet, though that adds complexity). I see extremely high capacity magazines with high rates of fire. As previously stated, shotguns will never go out because they are needed, but the weapon may evolve into something that can fire in multiple directions at once, and with more ammunition varieties (like biologic-melting acids).

Mid range would be the specialized field gear, like the nuclear-type rifle, capable of greater distance and high damage, sniper rifles with finned and guided munitions. Munitions that travel at hypersonic velocities. Grenades that can eliminate "soft- targets" but leave structures unaffected. Munitions that damage hard targets with negligible effect on personnel (imagine all your weapons and clothing/armor disintegrating as the enemy advances on you, or refusing to work). These might include sonic weapons - Weapons that operate to incapacitate and kill using sound waves. Small saturation weapons that can be fired over a target then release guided weapons from above. Also, advanced mines that actively seek out targets within a certain range (mines are difficult, because usually you drop them in place and they will kill anything, including your own troops, unless somehow an RF ID is in your troops or something, aka: Second Variety by Philip K. Dick or the movie Screamers).

Long range weaponry would be built on "the lowest bidder" idea. So, there would probably be lots of simple launching systems for guided or unguided small missiles. The range would be greater than now, as will the accuracy. I see things like focused microwave weapons and large particle-beam weapons coming into use on the large end of things (not like Babylon 5 space weapons, but like high-capacity, rapidfire weapons, like a GAU-8 on steroids).

I also see some more non-lethal weaponry coming into play, designed to immobilize the enemy without death. Electrical "bugzapper" weapons that would probably be vehicle mounted, or set up like mine-systems, to immobilize personnel within a distance, or between two vehicles (like a +/- effect). Self-contained projectiles that act like miniature stun-guns, as fired bullets or can be projected from a larger munition and scattered into crowd or buildings, attaching to any combatant in radius and zapping them until they can be secured. Sonic weapons to disorient balance and vision. Lasers to blind the enemy much like in use today. Anti-weapon weapons, designed to disable machinery and weapons.

I also see more use of remote sensors, like small insect-like camera gear and remote imagers, probably "flown" by a technician with a head-mounted video system. No one likes to turn a corner in person and be faced with an enemy squad! Also larger such devices could be used for specialized targeting, like seeking out a target in a building maze, or without any clear lines of attack.

Overall, I see the designs coming across as more "effective" than outlandish-looking, or hi-tech. At least, in the immediate future.

Of course, there will always be the backups: Clubs, boards with nails in them, rocks, knives, and pit traps. :)

I hope that was helpful.

Url fail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

FA doesn't agree with a parentheses in the address

I would like to have munitions that do travel at hypersonic velocities, however I would then been to think up of a way to diminish recoil as to not kill or majorly injure the shooter.

The zero friction coating idea is pretty neat. :)

I have thought about non-lethal weapons, I know they would have some of these for situations which call for them, you have some cool ideas there. :)

Hypersonic weapons need not have large mass behind them, which is the design of modern weapons. A lightweight dart of aluminum with a pin-like rod of something dense inside could do a lot of damage at extremely high velocities, but without too much recoil effect. That is what a particle beam weapon is in essence; thousands of lightweight bits of matter at extremely high velocity in a focused stream. The limits on electromagnetic railguns right now are materials lining the "bullet" path, or as such the barrel, more than the electrical supply. The electrical power keeps melting the stuff, and sometimes it even blows apart from the magnetic forces. If new materials come about, these could be commonplace battlefield weapons, perhaps at first with a backpack power supply ... like WWII flamethrower packs.

And thanks. :)

case-less ammunition AKA no shell ejections would probably be standard.
Clips can take on standard shapes and even run the length of the gun (like the P90 of today)
Small on board targeting computers that allow the shooter to reduce inaccuracy from hand shaking by slightly moving the barrel all the time.
Shell size get EVEN LARGER in sniper rifles as recoil reduction devices get better and better. (shells to the size they could probably even have small guidance systems in them)
deep armor penetrating rounds for smaller calibers as polymers get better

What not to see:
Lasers (unless we find some capacitor that runs on magic)
Plasma (unless we find magic)
Power swords (and mele weapons in general most likely except maybe a small knife)

Small on board targeting computers that allow the shooter to reduce inaccuracy from hand shaking by slightly moving the barrel all the time.

Yeah I really thought about this, computerized assistance, maybe with a very adaptive intelligence, and definitely with the ability to feed the shooter all sorts of information. I imagine computer technology would be far more advanced.

Shell size get EVEN LARGER in sniper rifles as recoil reduction devices get better and better. (shells to the size they could probably even have small guidance systems in them)

Either that or they fire rounds at much greater speed, again improvements in recoil reduction would have to be made. I do like the ideas of self-guiding shells.

Lasers (unless we find some capacitor that runs on magic)

Beam weapons I imagine are more for heavy capital ship weapons.

i dont know you but i say scoped rifles are always good, try searching on google for 50 cal. sniper rifle...they bring some good weapons.
also you might wanna incorperate close combat weapons like knives ^^

sorry im just kinda bored right now and wanted to say something to a random person

What about Railguns, the ammo is light cause the projectiles are small and caseless. As energy storage improves, I can see the man portable Railgun becoming a possibility. I have seen smaller versions of Railguns made, only about 2 feet long, but the power supply is currently the downfall of them, requiring many batteries to power them. But if you can accelerate a tiny BB size object or needle to a hyper-velocity, you're talking about a lot of kinetic energy on the receiving end. Even if not as an assault rifle, I can definitely see it as a sniper's weapon.

Power is the main issue, if they develop some way to have a lightweight and compact power cell then I can see railguns being used for assault rifles, I don't think it is too far fetched.

I imagine case-less ammo will become more prevalent, and if battery technology has escalated rapidly enough, there might be a chance you'd find coilguns in use (which I THINK may be a bit quieter, sparing the sensitive ears of most anthros likely to be firing them).
Also, you may even find guns that automatically collapse and reassemble themselves for better transport. Some guns may even be hidden this way (a la Perfect Dark's "laptop gun").

People seem to be leaning towards railguns and coilguns, or other such mass driven weapons, it is definitely worth considering for the stories.

If you're looking for realistic guns, the future of weapons will always be designed to maximize stopping power, range, and accuracy. Honest to god I don't see the basic design of the gun changing too much. You'd want to look into some of the current in development military items and tweak those designs a bit.

If you're talking about space campaigns though, guns will have rounds that have enough stopping power to do the job, but not enough to destroy the integrity of a ship's hull. You'll be looking into low caliber sidearms in space, not big infantry rifles except in storage.

As for lasers and shock weapons, I don't think you'd be seeing those much. Unless the enemy uses forms of armor that repel conventional rounds better than anything we can currently come up with while not being encumbering and at the same time being economical, I don't see anyone transitioning out of current solid rounds. They're cheap to manufacture overall, and they don't require insane amounts of energy to use. Conventional rounds can also be used in a variety of situations more cheaply and effectively than I think more sci-fi weapons could.

If you're talking about space campaigns though, guns will have rounds that have enough stopping power to do the job, but not enough to destroy the integrity of a ship's hull. You'll be looking into low caliber sidearms in space, not big infantry rifles except in storage.

Well fortunately the ship's hull is designed to take impacts with much, much more kinetic force, so outer hull penetration is not an issue.

That reminds me of the Needler gun from the battletech universe, it uses compressed air to shred a polycarbonate block of ammo into many many tiny flechettes, has no penetrating power against metal or other material but is lethal to any soft targets.

I would point out that maybe firearms technology might not actually advance TOO much. I mean think about how much guns have evolved since the Wild West Era.

Colt's Six Shooter was quite the revolution for the time.

Bullets where the charge and the projectile are all self contained in one shell removed many loading issues... standardised ammunition helped out many of the remaining ones (Imagine being in a firefight and desperately using a knife to pry spent ammo out of your rifle).


Most improvements after that point seem to be towards ammo capacity and rate of fire. Heck... the modern 'Minigun' is just the addition of a motor on an old Gatling Gun.

Perhaps focus on concepts such as new materials in their construction, improvements against malfunction and maybe the idea that they finally perfected 'caseless' ammo.

Bullpup designs, light weight, modular with lots of optional attachments and interchangeable pieces, this is the direction the weapons of the US and parts of Europe are headed at least.
Honestly, I see the combination of things like a laser and conventional weaponry. Like a standard assault rifle with a burning laser attachment(in place of where would normally be a 40mm grenade launcher maybe), or a compact plasma flame thrower, or any other idea you can come up with thats technically possible.
Then again, you have to take into account what nation will be useing these weapons, cause the US is one of the few nations that still uses incendiary(fire) devices, other nations have signed treaties that prevent them from useing them.
I see anti-tank/armored vehicle abilities being made smaller and being added to the standard issue weapons as well. I micro rocket or something that can be launched from the end of a rifle like the WW2 era Rifle Grenade, only more capable.
Their are also super experimental things like smart bullets, bullets that can turn up to 55 degrees in angle after being fired. If the distance is long enough that is. These are ideal for shooting over a wall or around something in between you and the target you are trying to hit. Add to tho air burst ability, something that artillery and 20mm+ sized shells can ready do, and you have some very nice toys to play with.
Caseless ammo is something else to think about, ammo without a bullet casing that is fired electronically, I don't see it making it to the troops as a personal weapon, but imagine rapid fire tank shells/artillery, or maybe some sort of automated robot/UAV with a Metal Storm unit mounted on it, it can put out as much fire power or more than the rest of the squad as a whole. The only problem with this is cause its rate of fire is so high, even higher than that of a minigun, you have a problem keeping it fed with ammo.

Really, their are too many directions the future of war to go.. I cant cover them all, I'm not that knowledgeable and I'm tired of typing. |3

In the webpage www.wearechange.org, go past the middle of the page and you will see the new military weapon XM-25 (that thing looks like out of a scifi movie) ^^;

One of the big problems is that weapons design has reached a plateau. conventional gunpowder can't push a projectile any faster while current body armor technology continues to improve while energy weapons are just out of reach due to the power curve problems. While railguns are a strong contender, at current they're fragile and far too large. An electrothermal design might be viable however. A case contains the projectile with an electrode in the base. When a current is run through the electrode it flashes the contents of the case over into plasma, generating far higher velocities than burning powder can create, it should also require less power to generate the current. Given the time frame you're discussing, it's possible that a strong race might develop a fusion generator light enough to be portable. In which case, the rest of the squad could charge power packs off it, as well as purify water (you'd also 'crack' it for hydrogen, which would also give you oxygen to recharge any breathing gear) and the plasma could be tapped to give the squad a plasma gun for a squad weapon.

coil/rail technology will be the way to go imo

there already exists weapons-grade naval coil/rail guns (magnetic acceleration of projectiles...) - rediculous range, requires loads of power so only big ships with nuclear drives and huge generators are really good for them.. still, they outclass conventional artillery when it comes to range and payload capability by several orders of magnitude (of what i know...)

alternatly, then laser technology. the problem is focusing the light and enabling some form of variable range - too long and the beam looses focus, the same for too close... some kind of auto-rangefinding electronics that respond really quick?


that said, then the current chemical propelant bullet isn't likely to change that much. i did see the youtube ont he ppl who made a shotgun shell that instead of pellets fire a small fin-stabilized micro-grenade. basically making for the ammo you need to make warhammer 40K bolters. that would rock so hard.

Looking up, looks like all the magnetic weapons have been covered!


Now there's a couple of things that came to mind..
Laser weapons... how come they are rarely drawn with lenses instead of barrels?
I suppose if they're throwing projectiles of energy then the pathway would have to be clear, but then that suggests that the energy ball has mass and weight.. so the same trajectory and elevation laws would apply as if you were still shooting bullets, right?
And there's been talk about electrically firing rifles in our military.. Less moving parts, less throw off with no bolt slamming back, maybe even programmed to not fire when aimed at a comrade... but what if the enemy has something that can disrupt the flow of electricity?? or at least something to disrupt the signals?

there ya go! Hope you can use that!

Why do laser weapons have barrels?

Well, if for no other reason - so that the person shooting the weapon can aim along the barrel. It's easier to aim something long and narrow than something snub and wide.

Well, afaik, the Navy's already very interested in railguns for ship-based weaponry.

What I think would be neat for futuristic small arms, though, is some sort of flexible modular design. You'll have a base weapon in a common caliber, with attachment points for various other things you might need, IE a second barrel for a grenade launcher, a flamethrower nozzle, extendable barrel for long range applications, etc. We have some of that now, but none of it is designed for making on-the-fly changes to adapt to new situations.

I don't know if you've ever read the Hyperion novels, but the FORCE assault weaponry did something like that.

For your delectation:

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2534175/

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2534206/

*whistles*

Well, looks like a lot of people have already weighed in with a lot of helpful suggestions for this. For that reason I wont weigh in myself.

But if you want to read up on a lot of the actual science behind how one would develop a directed energy weapon(ray gun, phaser, blaster, etc) there is a lot of research on the actual science on this page here http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l.html

The whole site is about science fiction stuff like starships and aliens and such and its done by a science fiction fan who really knows his stuff.

PS: The army actually does have a prototype directed energy weapon. A very nasty type of weapon nicknamed a 'Microwave Flamethrower', which uses a giant antennae mounted on the back of a hummer to shiskabob stuff with high powered microwaves. Sort of like your microwave oven but on a MUCH bigger scale.