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Nimin - What if you only started human?
9 years ago
No, Nimin is not dead. At least, not in my brain. I'm still looking for assistance and I'm writing bits and pieces here and there and, most importantly, I've been thinking about where to take the game as a whole, so I have a better idea of what needs to be added to progress to an eventual end.
One of the things I have been considering that would make the biggest impact, and thus want some more opinions on, is potentially having all players start out as human. No options to start as another race.
Why?
Having a single starting point means I can write the story around it, and write everything else from that perspective. The current multiple starting points means that I need to take into account that the player could be seeing Tieden as their first "foreign" race from either a felin or human perspective, which means I need to write it more generally for either. Having just starting as human means all other locations will be new, and I can write it from the human perspective.
All transformations could be written similarly. Going from felin to lupan isn't much of a change; you still have fur, pointy ears, and a tail. So, the transformation isn't as "surprising" as a human that suddenly has fur instead of just skin, or has a tail bursting out of there backside. Thus, transformations can be written with more surprise in them than "your tail gets poofier". As the players are humans in real life (I know, some of you might be dogs on the inside, but you still know the human condition), that's easier to relate with and can get more out of it.
Why not?
That would be a lot of extra re-writing that needs to be done to get the game to get that perspective, since it's already written rather generally. That could be a lot of work in itself, and as it stands I've already got more planned than I'm going to be able to handle on my own as it is, so that's a factor I need to keep in mind so I don't bite off more than I can chew. Yet, otherwise everything just feels more "bland" when I write it generally, which is harder to get motivated to write anyways.
Players may particularly prefer Nimin -because- of the ability to select different starting races. Or they like Nimin because it's written from any perspective like that, which might feel more unique compared to the other games out there. This part is the one that I'm really in the dark on, since I'm not one of the many players.
So, if you can give me your thoughts/preferences, that would be helpful! I'm not guaranteeing I'll have a release out anytime in the near future, but I am trying to get more and more back into the creation process, since it was a big part of my life for so many years and I've been lacking recently.
Thanks!
Update: I'm not responding individually because this has been great feedback so far, from both angles, and I like seeing people think these things through independently! Thanks so much for the discussions here, really helping me think through what's best for the game! (What's best for me doesn't matter too much here, this is a topic that I'm not sure which way I want to go which is why your input has been so helpful!)
One of the things I have been considering that would make the biggest impact, and thus want some more opinions on, is potentially having all players start out as human. No options to start as another race.
Why?
Having a single starting point means I can write the story around it, and write everything else from that perspective. The current multiple starting points means that I need to take into account that the player could be seeing Tieden as their first "foreign" race from either a felin or human perspective, which means I need to write it more generally for either. Having just starting as human means all other locations will be new, and I can write it from the human perspective.
All transformations could be written similarly. Going from felin to lupan isn't much of a change; you still have fur, pointy ears, and a tail. So, the transformation isn't as "surprising" as a human that suddenly has fur instead of just skin, or has a tail bursting out of there backside. Thus, transformations can be written with more surprise in them than "your tail gets poofier". As the players are humans in real life (I know, some of you might be dogs on the inside, but you still know the human condition), that's easier to relate with and can get more out of it.
Why not?
That would be a lot of extra re-writing that needs to be done to get the game to get that perspective, since it's already written rather generally. That could be a lot of work in itself, and as it stands I've already got more planned than I'm going to be able to handle on my own as it is, so that's a factor I need to keep in mind so I don't bite off more than I can chew. Yet, otherwise everything just feels more "bland" when I write it generally, which is harder to get motivated to write anyways.
Players may particularly prefer Nimin -because- of the ability to select different starting races. Or they like Nimin because it's written from any perspective like that, which might feel more unique compared to the other games out there. This part is the one that I'm really in the dark on, since I'm not one of the many players.
So, if you can give me your thoughts/preferences, that would be helpful! I'm not guaranteeing I'll have a release out anytime in the near future, but I am trying to get more and more back into the creation process, since it was a big part of my life for so many years and I've been lacking recently.
Thanks!
Update: I'm not responding individually because this has been great feedback so far, from both angles, and I like seeing people think these things through independently! Thanks so much for the discussions here, really helping me think through what's best for the game! (What's best for me doesn't matter too much here, this is a topic that I'm not sure which way I want to go which is why your input has been so helpful!)
that being said
Humans are Carte Blanche of the furry world. This is who we are and we all build ontop of expierience of being a human. Humans are relatable no matter who goes into the game. you cannot force players to start as any other race and see benefit in stayin in that skin. if you'd make me start game as a female my first instinct would be to save scum my way into a dick. if you made me anything other than wolf I'll go straight to Tiden to get myself a fluffy tail. but if i start as a human I can Imagine getting turned into a wolf and project on that character.
I hope I make sense tl;dr version of this is that I put my vote to starting as human. just remember this is your story okay?
Your points are valid eitherway, but considering most people, like me do enjoy the fantasy of being thrown into a world as a human, and slowly loosing themself to the hornier style of the transformation.
Though honestly, I think having the choice as what you ant to start not only creates a certain uniqueness, as you mentioned, but also is part of a world building.
Humans are not the center of the world, you have built a system for each different species, building in other ones as a mutation (like the rabbits).
I can see both pro and cons as valid points, but if I have to decide, keep up with the different races choice. But thats only the view of an observer and player.
I do hope that you find the choice you prefer
On the other hand, I'm not the one making this game, so it's your call.
My vote is to write in the perspective as a human. :D
The multiple starting races is what I like about the game.
That said, would there be a possibility of the transformation gameplay tying more directly into the plot, rather than mostly being cosmetic?
For some forms what to give them as a bonus seems pretty simple but with others some serious creativity may need to be done.
Felines could easily get agility and flexibility bonuses, and canines could have better senses (hearing, smell, ect). I'm a little less sure about what to give equines and have no idea about the reptiles. If something interesting could be thought of for each form that would certainly make starting as Human and discovering the others more interesting.
Sometimes it takes 20+ reloads to make a cock carv give a new genital set to my character, and even more to obtain this or that. It gets tedious.
I like being able to choose my race and basic style.
It's my favorite because you can choose what you want to be. It's my favorite because starting up a new game is simple and intuitive. You don't have to go through a whole human intro like Fall of Eden, Corruption of Champions, and somewhat like Trials in Tainted Space. When you come to play Nimin, you know what you want to do. You start up your character to your liking, and then you head off into the small but lovable world to experience it your own way.
Allowing us to choose what we want to be from the very start allows us to better inject our own personality with more than just hair style and eye color. We can be closer to our fursonas, we can more easily get into the immersion and roleplaying of it if we get to start off as we like. Having a species option is one of the things that sets Nimin apart from other popular text games even today, no matter how long it's been, no matter how many updates the others get. Nimin is still my favorite.
I'll never forget the memories I've had here, starting off in different ways to see how things work, experiencing the intimacies of every corner of this world, and learning so much of it from each different perspective. If we didn't get to choose, that wouldn't really be possible. How do you make it as a lupan, according to what's around them? How do you make it as a felin? It's more than just a choice of species, it's allowing us a fundamental difference in the way we progress through the game, and the way first-time players experience the world around them.
I understand the desire to make writing easier, and I don't blame you for considering that option. I'm rather glad you asked us what we think. That shows us you care for the game still, and shows us that you're still interested. I admit I was worried for a while, but this question brings a smile to my face. Thank you, Xadera. I'm very happy to offer my thoughts on this topic. My suggestion would be to utilize checks to figure out what people are, what they started as, where they're coming from, and what they have or haven't experienced yet. It might be more difficult, but it really comes down to what you want out of your game. Do you want it to be more mainstream with easier writing? Or do you want to preserve its uniqueness and increase the writing difficulty? I, for one, would be disappointed to see it go in the direction of the other 'big name' text games for the sake of simplifying things. Nimin has been my favorite for several years now, and I'll always remember fondly my many hours learning every detail about it.
I hope this turns out useful to you, and isn't too much to read. Nimin means a lot to me, and I wish I could help, but I don't know the first thing about game design.
Though I would still like to see the different forms made a bit more significant beyond austetic as I mentioned in my previous comment
Or, like already mentioned above - just make a race changing option in a debug mode.
I totally support that emotion! Xadera, that could be something to do after you make your little story part. I mean, you could just save the current code for afterwards and then add in an unlockable Free-Play mode.
I say make it unlockable so that people will have to go through the story mode first and thus can't cheat.
Also, softlik sells the blood gauge so transformations have a little more fine tuning available...
Also, a distinct lack of aggressive human npcs(or lizans, come to think of it) makes me say YES. Human starter is perfectly logical. No reason (aside from laziness) to not start as one type of being, and work your way towards your intended species. Four species have no "home cities", but that would be the alternative route in pleasing the ones who don't want to spend a little effort to get a character they like, as then they could pick whatever species they want... Somehow, that route sounds like MORE work.... plus there would be no secrets..... It also is more thematic (to me, at least) to start as a human, and succumb to the chaos of Nimin by becoming something better than a human.
Yes, it might be cliche. Some cliches actually work, though...
So my vote is that I do not support the forced human start.
Trying to get back into creative writing myself after a long time of inactivity, so I can understand your situation.
I doubt my writing is anywhere near good enough to join the team, but when I have more time, maybe I'll try coming up with an example or two if I can get back into it.
Wishing you luck with the game. And I'll definitely be playing any new versions when they're released
Moreover, I would like to have a wider array of human transformations and scenes available for those that prefer to stay human (or mostly human) throughout the game.
Yet my concern is more on the hunger/food, perspective. Might need to add farms with harvest options to all the towns with food with no side effects. As for things such as puss fruits, bol berries, and transformation fruit, having less of an impact on hunger, or even non-existant to hunger.
Although I would not be against starting in the same area each time. It doesn't have to be the a current town either. Having a specific origin point would allow you to build a story, or gauge a time frame for the interactions of the PC.
You could have this "origin point" connected to a single town. If it where say, a human town. You could write 2 into scenes one for a human character, and one for a non-human.
Of course this could only be for the start. As you continue to add content to the game you can always go back and add in additional intro scenes divided by race, sex, height, ect.
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In fact having typed this out I say go ahead and start as just human. With a text based adventure, its always possible to go back and add more variation. If you keep that thought it mind you can write anything your creativity gives you. Even if there isn't a place for it now, just write it, and then when a place opens up for it, you'll have it.
If starting narrow is what helps you get the ball rolling go for it. Think of a it like a tree, it starts out as noting but a thin line sticking out of a seed, but over time it creates additional branches, branches from branches. Then the trunk gets bigger to support. Can also always clip some branches till the trunk catches up.
Nimin is your tree.
Human start:
Helps with game goals. (least for preference of the players)
Provides a single start to get all the attention and detail.
Human perspective can be related to.
With that one perspective all writing concerning the PC has a more grounded perception, less angels for the writer's to think about and consider.
Provides a contrast to descriptions when compared to human capability's.
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If there is to be a major rewrite I believe introducing a graphical interface would be beneficial, beyond the current buttons.
Example would be Fenoxo's in game Trials in Tainted Space map, Along with a character representation as a token, it have to be pixel art but it can be layered and show off different aspects of the PC.
And if there is to be a rewrite of the majority or entirety of the game, move it to patron for support, I think it could do quite well.
You're right, we're all humans here, and that does make sense to start human; but, personally, it's for that reason I don't want to to be human in Nimin. Honestly, I tend to avoid being human when I can avoid it since I already am one. I like choices, and that's one of the biggest charms I really like about Nimin, that I can choose to have a character who is culturally tied to a specific location rather than be something he/she isn't. That they belong in this location because that's where they were born and raised.
I know that to an extent that's just stuff on a mental level. That much of my character's backstory is just in my head, and I could always just change him or her into the other races and pretend they were always that race; but, to me it feels almost traitorous in a way to do so. I'm sure most folks won't share my issue on this, but I know at least for me it'll always be like this: That on the back of my mind, that my character pretty much turned their backs and abandoned their old home, friends, family, and background for a new one. It basically feels like killing them off to me.
I understand where you're getting at though, and I don't blame ya for it. Doing a single starting point is easier, and thus more ideal, so it makes sense to want to go that route, but I think the level of uniqueness this game has, and the reason why I never really forget it, even after all these years, will end up suffering if done so.