Drama - Teamkilling for the Lolz
8 years ago
There are a few common silly things people do in games in order to be funny. Giving your character a funny name makes sense, things like "bumfarts" get old fast, but clever stuff like setting your deathmatch name as "accident" (You were killed by accident) or naming your RPG hero "I say-" so that all the NPCs sound like Foghorn Beghorn.
But others make little sense to me, such as setting all the sliders in character creation to maximum or minimum so you end up with a weird looking abomination loses it's appeal after 10 minutes. But the one that's relevent today, as you might have guessed from the title, is when people in co-op or team games start killing teammates "for the lolz". Not accidental friendly fire or making a mistake that indirectly screws someone over with perfect comic timing. I'm talking straight up "Hur hur. I shot teammate in back of head huuur.". I've seen this happen a number of times and I don't get the joke. And if you want to play PvP, why not play PvP? Why run around shooting team mates in the back?
When it happens in pub games, kicking/banning said player is the most obvious course of action, but that isn't always an option. The next best thing is to kill them back. See, they can kill team mates "for the lolz", but they can't take it, quickly melting down in a rage and quiting the game.
Enter 7 Days to Die.
7 Days to Die is one of those zombie crafting survival games that appeared on Steam Early Access back when DayZ was a hit. There's nothing unique or remarkable about it. It's not very good, updates are slow to arrive and incremental, and I don't recommend it at all.
I was playing a private server with a bunch of other guys that I'll remain nameless. When one guy, let's call him Player, decided it would be funny to blow me up with a rocket launcher. Explosives are 1 hit kills, and a bug in the game means they ignore friendly fire rules. So I was building some stairs one moment, and dead the next. Annoying, but whatever. I had to run from spawn back to where I died in order to get my stuff back. The problem was my bag was gone, meaning it had either been looted, destroyed in the blast, fell through the world, or had simply fallen down the mountain, meaning it could be anywhere. Hours of work, gone.
Armed with my starting gear, and thus no way of direct pay back, I decided to blow up the cement mixer I had got for the team (a late game item I got in mid game), and steal all the guns, as Player was the gunsmith of the group. I then logged out so he couldn't simply kill me to get his guns back.
...He was not pleased. Going on a 1000 word tirade about how it wasn't funny and undid hours of work. Of course, when it happened to me it was the most hillarious thing ever, but when it happens to him...
Well, the result of this was him getting most of the group to post old memes and jokes at my expense. While some of these were genuinely funny, they had made their minds up. I logged back in, destroyed their supplies, respawn points, locked the base doors, hid their bike in a cave, and planted land mines around the base. You're welcome. Though again, way over the line and totally not funny when they lost all of their progress. Odd that. After that, most of the group banned and blocked me, and Player went on another tirade. 500 words this time.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/23477380/
So what are the take aways from this? Well, there are 3.
One is the subject of apologies. Saying "sorry", and being genuinely sorry for your actions are 2 different things. One running theme throughout Player's rants was this idea of me somehow being mean for not accepting his apology, but I never got an apology. He said sorry while snickering. He said sorry while issuing a threat of return the items I took or else he'd tell the group bad things about me (something he evidently did given the block me afterwards). He said sorry while insulting me. But no apology. To me, this is the difference between someone who drops a glass and says sorry, vs someone who smashes several glasses, and gives a token "sorry" while laughing at you before continuing to smash things. I don't think I'm being mean for not accepting the latter.
Second is the joke itself. I know I've hammered this point into the ground, but I don't get the joke. You killed a team mate, how is that hilarious? Why is it funny to mess up one persons game and hours of work, but when they return the favour it's absolutely not funny and beyond the pale? During Player's rants, he said that undoing his work set the team back. Isn't that true of me, or do I suddenly not count as a contributing member of the team? I got a late game item during the mid game for the team to use.
But by far the most important one is how something as simple as "teamkill lol!" has resulted in the loss of several friendships. Granted, most I barely talked to, but some I talked to often enough that I'd have called them friends, and losing friends over something so minor and petty is hard to put into words.
Again, think about what's going on here. A guy ruined his friends game for a laugh. When said friend returned the favour, he couldn't handle it. He got the rest of the group in on the joke, but when they got what they gave, they couldn't handle it either.
Now, you can argue that I'm an arsehole that took this way to far if you like. Maybe you think I'm being mean by not accepting a token "sorry". Hell, you can even call me imature. That's fine. You don't have to agree with me. Maybe once they calm down they'll realise it's just a game, lift their bans/blocks, let bygones be bygones, and get back to having fun. They know where to find me when that happens.
...And for any of the people involved are readying this, if you want to end a friendship with a game, play Monopoly like everyone else.
But others make little sense to me, such as setting all the sliders in character creation to maximum or minimum so you end up with a weird looking abomination loses it's appeal after 10 minutes. But the one that's relevent today, as you might have guessed from the title, is when people in co-op or team games start killing teammates "for the lolz". Not accidental friendly fire or making a mistake that indirectly screws someone over with perfect comic timing. I'm talking straight up "Hur hur. I shot teammate in back of head huuur.". I've seen this happen a number of times and I don't get the joke. And if you want to play PvP, why not play PvP? Why run around shooting team mates in the back?
When it happens in pub games, kicking/banning said player is the most obvious course of action, but that isn't always an option. The next best thing is to kill them back. See, they can kill team mates "for the lolz", but they can't take it, quickly melting down in a rage and quiting the game.
Enter 7 Days to Die.
7 Days to Die is one of those zombie crafting survival games that appeared on Steam Early Access back when DayZ was a hit. There's nothing unique or remarkable about it. It's not very good, updates are slow to arrive and incremental, and I don't recommend it at all.
I was playing a private server with a bunch of other guys that I'll remain nameless. When one guy, let's call him Player, decided it would be funny to blow me up with a rocket launcher. Explosives are 1 hit kills, and a bug in the game means they ignore friendly fire rules. So I was building some stairs one moment, and dead the next. Annoying, but whatever. I had to run from spawn back to where I died in order to get my stuff back. The problem was my bag was gone, meaning it had either been looted, destroyed in the blast, fell through the world, or had simply fallen down the mountain, meaning it could be anywhere. Hours of work, gone.
Armed with my starting gear, and thus no way of direct pay back, I decided to blow up the cement mixer I had got for the team (a late game item I got in mid game), and steal all the guns, as Player was the gunsmith of the group. I then logged out so he couldn't simply kill me to get his guns back.
...He was not pleased. Going on a 1000 word tirade about how it wasn't funny and undid hours of work. Of course, when it happened to me it was the most hillarious thing ever, but when it happens to him...
Well, the result of this was him getting most of the group to post old memes and jokes at my expense. While some of these were genuinely funny, they had made their minds up. I logged back in, destroyed their supplies, respawn points, locked the base doors, hid their bike in a cave, and planted land mines around the base. You're welcome. Though again, way over the line and totally not funny when they lost all of their progress. Odd that. After that, most of the group banned and blocked me, and Player went on another tirade. 500 words this time.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/23477380/
So what are the take aways from this? Well, there are 3.
One is the subject of apologies. Saying "sorry", and being genuinely sorry for your actions are 2 different things. One running theme throughout Player's rants was this idea of me somehow being mean for not accepting his apology, but I never got an apology. He said sorry while snickering. He said sorry while issuing a threat of return the items I took or else he'd tell the group bad things about me (something he evidently did given the block me afterwards). He said sorry while insulting me. But no apology. To me, this is the difference between someone who drops a glass and says sorry, vs someone who smashes several glasses, and gives a token "sorry" while laughing at you before continuing to smash things. I don't think I'm being mean for not accepting the latter.
Second is the joke itself. I know I've hammered this point into the ground, but I don't get the joke. You killed a team mate, how is that hilarious? Why is it funny to mess up one persons game and hours of work, but when they return the favour it's absolutely not funny and beyond the pale? During Player's rants, he said that undoing his work set the team back. Isn't that true of me, or do I suddenly not count as a contributing member of the team? I got a late game item during the mid game for the team to use.
But by far the most important one is how something as simple as "teamkill lol!" has resulted in the loss of several friendships. Granted, most I barely talked to, but some I talked to often enough that I'd have called them friends, and losing friends over something so minor and petty is hard to put into words.
Again, think about what's going on here. A guy ruined his friends game for a laugh. When said friend returned the favour, he couldn't handle it. He got the rest of the group in on the joke, but when they got what they gave, they couldn't handle it either.
Now, you can argue that I'm an arsehole that took this way to far if you like. Maybe you think I'm being mean by not accepting a token "sorry". Hell, you can even call me imature. That's fine. You don't have to agree with me. Maybe once they calm down they'll realise it's just a game, lift their bans/blocks, let bygones be bygones, and get back to having fun. They know where to find me when that happens.
...And for any of the people involved are readying this, if you want to end a friendship with a game, play Monopoly like everyone else.
"When one guy, let's call him Player, decided it would be funny to blow me up with a rocket launcher"
1.) Our friend posted the video of the hit. My draw distance didn't show you guys up there. Did I know you were up there somewhere? Sure. Did it have a chance to kill you? Absolutely. I fired it as a "this will probably startle these guys rocket." We were like 15 steps from base and I was thinking hey not much consequence to dying if worse comes to worse so I shot it and it hit. The problem is you're calling it a personal attack to smite YOU specifically (and which also means you think I'm the god of rocket launcher snipers because jfc, try standing where I was and hitting where you were.) It could have hit our other friend just as easly, so maybe accident isn't the right word but neither is "LULZ LET'S KILL SABRE," alright?. You're saying that crap to make your argument nice.
2.) This accusation of laughing at you while saying sorry? When it hit I definitely laughed. I laugh through saying "Oh shit that hit"...you know, like pretty much everyone else on the planet would? I was laughing at the circumstance, not that I caused you pain. I don't laugh at causing a friend pain, for the love of god. If you think that's who I am after speaking with me this long you're warped. I also notice you left out of your big call out journal that just after the explosion I said "Shit man I'm really sorry let me help find your bag" and dead pan when it couldn't be found "Yeah it's gone, again sorry, what was in it, I'll replace the stuff." I sure as hell know you remember listing off the stuff that was in your bag after I asked to help so lets just not pretend that didn't happen, ok?
3.) My "1000 word tirade?" yeah 90% of that was trying to talk you down from running the course you were because you were disappointing everyone on the server and not understanding that fact. The other 10% was disbelief that you were continually reacting like you did. I tried to explain this but again, none of us really care about the resources or the time that were destroyed, we care about your dick move that you somehow don't see as a dick move. You're incorrectly equating my stupid rocket with deciding that *everyone* should feel your wrath. It's like you want attention or to teach people who wern't even involved a lesson which just comes off super childish. Especially logging in a second time and doing it again. What you call a tirade and typing like I'm all upset over the game was in reality me adamantly trying to tell you your handling of the situation was going to alienate you from your friends. Which wow big surprise it did. It's funny that you see me as the bad guy when even then I was trying fervently to help you not come off like a douche canoe and get yourself uninvited to future games. I notice you also left out that I'm one of the few people left who bothers to invite you to shit anymore in the first place. At this point I suspect you treat a lot of people like this and I'm wondering why I still give a shit at all. That's why the second 500 word "tirade" was 100% me telling you not to contact me until you decide to stop fucking yourself over.
3.) At least in this journal you admitted to blowing up everyone's stuff....twice....over one indecent...like you didn't get enough attention the first time. I particularly like this misquote "he said that undoing his work set the team back" like I'm that pompous amount MYYY work. It's funny because the transcript of that conversation, which I still have so please challenge it, reads me saying "but screwing over everyone? That's sorta crappy dude"
Nice fucking spin tho. Jesus.
4.) You then proceed to imagine that I was on some campaign to turn everyone against you when in truth I only relayed what you said, which is that you did in fact do it. That's literally it. Everyone was banning you of their own accord entirely by witnessing your ultra petty actions, another thing you are not seeming to grasp here. And this is where I take offense. This demonizing me bullshit. I'm nothing but caring for my friends even if your incorrect ass brain took a stray rocket as me trying to get everyone to laugh at you. I can't help it if you don't get the difference between my actions and yours and if you can't decipher someone actually apologizing or trying to help you. At that point it's your damn problem man. I'm not going to eat shit because you think I don't feel bad enough or something. Oh just for the future, if you had just said "Koh please don't do that, it's annoying" it would never happen again in a milllllllion years simply because you told me you were sensitive to it. There is no Christ-holy-fucking way I could have known you'd have that strong of feelings over it.
5.) Again I'm really sorry if you didn't perceive my apology as genuine, but you are straight up wrong about that. When you acted like you did afterward I was pretty much like, well yeah at this point I'm not going to bend over and take it up the ass from you because I didn't feel bad enough for you or some manipulative shit like that. You took that as license to retroactively imagine I never said sorry in the first place. That's called a mental gymnastic. If you want to not accept the apology, the effort to find your bag, the offer to *draw you a recompense picture* btw, (also in the transcript,) and cook up a bunch of fake ass slights because you don't understand the world. then just don't talk to me man.
And this fabrication that I'm laughing at your suffering? Yeah. You owe me the apology at this point.
There's my third tirade for your insane consideration.
Fuck this brand of drama by the way, Sabre. This is gradeschool crap and I don't have room for it in my life.
First, the shot itself. I have a hard time accepting it was accident. Partly because you blew up various people throughout the game. What's interesting is that, based on conversations you guys had, another guy was banned from using explosives due to accidently killing someone once in a previous game. Another reason is that shooting randomly at a mountain makes very little sense. Even if the goal was just to scare or startle. Another reason is just how improbable it is. Which is more likely, randomly shooting at a mountain and by some strange coincidence hitting the only spot people happened to be standing, or aiming at a far away target and managing to hit the bullseye? The only bit that is plausably an accident was the bag disappearing, but that brings me to my next point-
The apology is kind of hard to take seriously. I've gone over why in the post, but gestures like "I'll help refil your bag" have little weight when it's close to horde time, and there's no plausable way to get those supplies in time. It's like murdering a pet rhino 3 days before the big rhino show, and saying "It's fine, I'll drive you to the pet shop.". Granted, that's a stupid example, but you get the idea.
The offer to draw me a picture I took as a reference to what you to say to everyone (usually Ash) when you shoot use in the back by accident in Vermintide. That said, if you were sinceer in that offer, there's no need to actually draw the picture. Knowing you actually meant it when you said sorry is enough.
Finally, there's my actions. As I've mentioned, I don't see a difference between my actions and yours. "Screwing another player out of hours of work" is the same as "screwing another player out of hours of work". Likewise, when it happened to me it was apparently hillarious, but when it happens to them, they act like I did The Holocaust 2. Saying that when I do it hurts the team implies that I contributed nothing to the team outside of eating all the bacon and eggs, and yet that's the only explaination I seem to get.
...And how can I be fermenting drama? I blew up the chem station, remember. :P
Everyone else gets the joke. I know you have trouble understanding this but most people equate this rocket nonsense with the same sort of thing as a roommate prank, like "Aww you dick, you got me." Believe it or not regular people are brought closer together by these antics, it doesn't wedge them apart, and that's normal people. By default I thought you were on that same page, but clearly you are not. So not knowing that was my mistake, by try to understand that by shooting rockets around my intentions were to include you in a fun time, not piss you off. I think that's where this misunderstanding began. I've heard autistic people feel they're in a world full of crazy people who never mean what they say and it's because they don't pick up on cues and subtleties like this. So try to look from my perspective. I tried to have a fun time with you, and it felt, just felt mind you, that you reacted to it poorly. People were on my side because they think like me, not you. The point of all that was, I was not, by default, excluding you as your own subset of thinker. You should at least be able to interpret that as how a friend operates.
Second, as stated, you think differently and I have no doubt you have trouble taking the apology seriously. Everyone else however would have taken my actions as "Koh is trying to smooth it over." But Sabre, I'm stuck as a default person, where as you are just in a different realm mentally. I don't know how to make the apology any more clear so that's why I keep saying...you have to either accept it or don't, because I made it already. From my perspective, which you're just going to have to trust since you can't warp into my mind and try it out, I did a lot to try to smooth this over with you once I learned that the rocket wasn't funny for you and you kept shoving it back in my face quite hurtfully. Again, from my perspective.
Thirdly, again because of this mental processing difference, everyone else saw your response as disproportionate, unnecessary, and rude. Unfortunately they think like I do, Sabre. We at least all understand now that you don't understand the difference between my prank and yours, and that's fine. The point I kept trying to make (that I hope you make a real effort to understand this time) is that after you wrecked the base, I REALIZED you were processing this differently than everyone else. That's WHY I was telling you not to do it. Not because you're a actually dick, but because I knew everyone was taking your actions as a dick move. You may never agree it was a dick move your entire life. But the fact remains that everyone else does. At that point my intentions shifted from our initial argument to trying to stop you from acting on your isolated understanding of the situation and making like 8 people hate you, ban you, and not want to game with you. If you think about it you should be able to see that this was me trying really fucking hard to help you save face. This is something someone who *isn't* an asshole would do. From my perspective you continually converted my attempts to save you from suffering that isolation​ into "Koh can take it but he can't dish it out" which confuses the shit out of me because the topic for me had shifted entirely from the game nonsense to "help sabre not act on this misunderstanding" a long time ago. Again, always from my perspective, by responding to me that way you appeared to be a GIGANTIC asshole who willfully ignored my attempts to smooth it out and focused on game crap that I didn't care about at all. I was giving a shit about YOU.
Then, you straight up offended me man. This journal? It's low. I explained in my comment above the places you're straight up lying, like that dumb fucking "set back the team" misquote to try to make me sound like a pompous asshole. Or the "Koh talked bad about me" which also never fucking happened. You conviently didn't address those points in your second comment.
Since we don't process information the same way I'm going to make something as clear as I possibly can. Doing that crosses a huge line with me. If you ever make up information and invent me as some shitty person just to serve your argument again, I will never play a game with you again, never friend you on another service, ban you from every page or event I ever create, and that'll be the last time we ever speak. That's a stunningly shitty move you pulled.
So, tl;dr, I think most of this is a misunderstanding between how we see the world. That's fine, we can both get over that. I know what not to do around you in the future. But I would also think really hard before you respond to this, Sabre, because like it or not some of your followup actions put you on very thin ice with me in terms of wanting to be your friend at all.
Anyway, the autism thing. Yes, you got me. This is why I don't tell anyone this stuff, because they blab. I want to ask who told you, and who else knows, but I guess that's not important right now. Now that I know that you know, I think I should mention that there are people who treat that information as an invitation to troll. I don't know, maybe it's a Chris Chan thing. Had I known you knew, I honestly would have assumed that's why I singled out for the rocket to the back of the head. I'm skeptical that this falls under "good natured ribbing" as the kids say, especially since my others friends don't like friendly fire stuff either, but I'll go with it for now.
As mentioned last time, if you're sincere in your apology, I accept it. If what you say is true, I might owe you one as well.
This whole thing is such a stupid thing to hold a grudge over. You can add me back, unblock me, etc. whenever you like, assuming you want to of course.
There is a bunch more I wanted to say, but I think it's best to keep this short.
My apology, again, was sincere
I told you, for a fact, I said to the guys after they were trying to figure out what happened and you told me you did it, "Sabre did it," and that was it. You can't just suspect I did something and consider it a fact. The fact that you're still clinging to that makes me want to cut you off. You can spin it as "paraphrasing" but you're straight up STILL trying to make me out as a shithead when I didn't do any of these followup slights after the rocket.
That's why I haven't let this go completely and until you realize that I have no interest in repairing this friendship because I'm not tolerating someone who fabricates shit about my honor whenever he feels like. So yes, you're god damn right you owe me an apology.
It's all these absolutley false negative assumptions you're putting out that are pissing me off to no end.
I wasn't making fun of you, I wasn't trying to cause you harm, I didn't talk shit about you behind behind your back, I didn't tell everyone to ban you, I was never snickering at you through some fake apology. I don't DO shit like that! I'm offended that you even *dream* I would be so mean. It's doubly hurtful that you just "paraphrased" in those falsehoods as though they were fact, which you knew everyone was going to read. It's like you don't know me at all.
If that's the kind of thing I can expect from you in the future, how I could be expected to hang out with you? That's why I'm having a hard time letting this go. If I make a mistake in the future even though I completely mean well what's to stop you from telling everyone Koh's an evil shithead? Because apparently you're fine with fabricating my intentions and pretty much lying about things I've done! Don't you see what an awful thing that is to do to someone? Through this whole thing you've tried to convince me, yourself, and the public with this journal that I'm some kind of snidley whiplash villain when nothing could be further from the truth! If you can't entirely correct that fucked up perception of me in your head (like forever dude) then quite simply can't tolerate being around you. Being autistic and being an asshole are two different problems. Like fuck sake if you ever want this to level out then accept my words as truth and don't ever fucking entertain the possibility that I had any of this imagined malace towards you over a videogame rocket again, it's bullshit!
Wooden stairs and a decent amount of basic ass supplies that could be made back in 10 min doesn't come close to equaling the amount of rare fire arms and the hard to gather building supplies that were in that cement mixer. the mixer itself was worth more than what was in that backpack of yours.
The resources you destroyed/stole were not Kohs, but the entire teams. are you starting to see the difference? We all would have laughed if you stole a pistol and a landmine and got Koh to stand near it and blew him up in a fun retaliation sort of way, but no you had to make sure everyone knew your feelings were hurt.
You can tell Koh was genuinely apologizing because if he meant to do it, he wouldn't have said sorry. (shit gets really fucking dull at night if there are no hostile swarms of zombies, and a player death within 1 kilometer of the base means nothing.) There's no perma-death, only a slight reduction of max stamina and hp. So ironically you took it too far by destroying the valuable equipment of the entire group. I'm willing to chalk this up to you just not fully understanding the game yet, but then again you did just come back in and destroyed even more shit after your friends becoming obviously frustrated with your actions so you might just be a fucking idiot.
That's why I made you Punished Snake from MGSV. In which he must go on a campaign of revenge against the person who blew him up. Spoiler warning but by the end, Snake is the villain of the game.
Fun fact, I started drawing those before hearing about any of the twisted logic you use to excuse yourself of responsibility in alienating yourself from your pals.
But the main thing is the whole Punished Snake thing. Those pics were funny, especially to Koh and Otacon ones, but if you think Snake is the villain, I doubt that you've actually played the game, or if you have, didn't understand it. Oddly enough, putting Sabre as Punished Snake is arguably more fitting than you seem to realise.
Thanks for drawing them btw. If you want me to take it down, I will.