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Somewhat Random Thought
16 years ago
Perhaps a touchy subject, but my brain decided that wants to dwell on it: Suicide. So... if you don't want to think on the subject please don't read. It's not fun or pleasant like the content I like to immerse myself into.
First off, no I'm not depressed to the point in where I would consider committing it. It's been over 10 years in where I was at that point. I'm rather content with my life, and who I am. So yay! Woo!
Though what my brain is dwelling on is people's opinion of it. That it is the coward's way out, that it is done by the weak. I find those sentiments make me... angry. Angry because such opinions smack of the ignorance and apathy that run and rule the world. That for the people who cross that line, the final line, that people need to give them one final slap across the face.
One has to realize that for a person to consider and to commit suicide (at least in the common context) is that one has to be without hope, and to be full of pain. Oh how words fail to describe the depths that agony can sink to. How they fail to describe the absoluteness of it all. It is something that you have to experience to know, and it is something no one should have to.
Even then, people who have experienced it will have the gall to call others cowards and weaklings for committing suicide because they were able to overcome their problems, whatever it maybe. Not for a second crossing their mind that what they experienced wasn't necessarily the worst a person can experience. I despise the idea of "If I can do it, you can do." because it again smacks of ignorance and apathy. The human spirit is very resilient, and can tolerate and endure near limitless suffering, but there is a limit. More importantly, what people experience different from person to person; as well as their circumstances.
Do I think suicide is an act of cowardice? How can it be? To be a coward is to be fearful, and it takes a great deal of resolution and conviction to be able to commit suicide. The resolution and conviction may have been born of pain and suffering, but that's the point of this type of suicide isn't it? That all other options have been exhausted, and there is only one way left unexplored.
Please don't start thinking that there are other ways. Just don't, if you do, you don't get it. People fight back, even the weakest of people will attempt to; but if the result of fighting back is more pain and suffering, then that's a dead end. People will call for help, but if no one listens or care, or even worse call them out for being weak and cowards for being not able to deal with their own problems, then that's a dead end too. What's the other way? Pray? Pray that one's tormentors will repent and have a change of heart?
It's as simple as standing the ledge to oblivion. You don't know what's in the darkness should you jump, if you turn around you face Hell, for that's what you were just from to get to this point. There's no redemption in sight, there's no warm bright inviting light to bring you back. Just your blood, your tears, your innocence, your dreams, your hopes lost in a sea of agony.
Who chooses to suffer absolutely and completely? Suicide isn't an act of cowardice. It is the last sane act people commit in an insane world.
It may not be your world, but it's theirs. They didn't forge it, and I can't blame them. I can't look down at them, because the game of life is stacked against them. I do feel pity for them, and I don't think pity is a bad word. I don't know why pity has become a bad word, that too is another thing that makes me angry. That things have gotten so bad that to be pitied means you are weak, and to be weak is to be worthless. Such lines of thought only severe the lines that can help people. To pity is to have empathy, why is that looked down upon? It's maddening, even more maddening is that the sentiment is spreading.
It hurts. It hurts to think about how much a person can suffer. It hurts to think that even as much as I know I have suffered, that someone can suffer more. Maybe that's why it's bad to have empathy, maybe to have empathy in a world full of hurt is to be hurt as well. Maybe that's why so many people have to be apathetic, to not care, because there's just so damn much suffering.
So I am here, trying to put some "happiness" in the world as opposed to the alternative. I think that's all the world needs, the want and drive to make people's day's brighter, even when your own is a bit dark.
I hope I'm doing my part.
====
Part of me wants to say "Sorry for the emo" but then I realize the irony of it. So no, I'm not sorry for it, stuff like this needs to be said, and all I can do is carry the hope that things change.
First off, no I'm not depressed to the point in where I would consider committing it. It's been over 10 years in where I was at that point. I'm rather content with my life, and who I am. So yay! Woo!
Though what my brain is dwelling on is people's opinion of it. That it is the coward's way out, that it is done by the weak. I find those sentiments make me... angry. Angry because such opinions smack of the ignorance and apathy that run and rule the world. That for the people who cross that line, the final line, that people need to give them one final slap across the face.
One has to realize that for a person to consider and to commit suicide (at least in the common context) is that one has to be without hope, and to be full of pain. Oh how words fail to describe the depths that agony can sink to. How they fail to describe the absoluteness of it all. It is something that you have to experience to know, and it is something no one should have to.
Even then, people who have experienced it will have the gall to call others cowards and weaklings for committing suicide because they were able to overcome their problems, whatever it maybe. Not for a second crossing their mind that what they experienced wasn't necessarily the worst a person can experience. I despise the idea of "If I can do it, you can do." because it again smacks of ignorance and apathy. The human spirit is very resilient, and can tolerate and endure near limitless suffering, but there is a limit. More importantly, what people experience different from person to person; as well as their circumstances.
Do I think suicide is an act of cowardice? How can it be? To be a coward is to be fearful, and it takes a great deal of resolution and conviction to be able to commit suicide. The resolution and conviction may have been born of pain and suffering, but that's the point of this type of suicide isn't it? That all other options have been exhausted, and there is only one way left unexplored.
Please don't start thinking that there are other ways. Just don't, if you do, you don't get it. People fight back, even the weakest of people will attempt to; but if the result of fighting back is more pain and suffering, then that's a dead end. People will call for help, but if no one listens or care, or even worse call them out for being weak and cowards for being not able to deal with their own problems, then that's a dead end too. What's the other way? Pray? Pray that one's tormentors will repent and have a change of heart?
It's as simple as standing the ledge to oblivion. You don't know what's in the darkness should you jump, if you turn around you face Hell, for that's what you were just from to get to this point. There's no redemption in sight, there's no warm bright inviting light to bring you back. Just your blood, your tears, your innocence, your dreams, your hopes lost in a sea of agony.
Who chooses to suffer absolutely and completely? Suicide isn't an act of cowardice. It is the last sane act people commit in an insane world.
It may not be your world, but it's theirs. They didn't forge it, and I can't blame them. I can't look down at them, because the game of life is stacked against them. I do feel pity for them, and I don't think pity is a bad word. I don't know why pity has become a bad word, that too is another thing that makes me angry. That things have gotten so bad that to be pitied means you are weak, and to be weak is to be worthless. Such lines of thought only severe the lines that can help people. To pity is to have empathy, why is that looked down upon? It's maddening, even more maddening is that the sentiment is spreading.
It hurts. It hurts to think about how much a person can suffer. It hurts to think that even as much as I know I have suffered, that someone can suffer more. Maybe that's why it's bad to have empathy, maybe to have empathy in a world full of hurt is to be hurt as well. Maybe that's why so many people have to be apathetic, to not care, because there's just so damn much suffering.
So I am here, trying to put some "happiness" in the world as opposed to the alternative. I think that's all the world needs, the want and drive to make people's day's brighter, even when your own is a bit dark.
I hope I'm doing my part.
====
Part of me wants to say "Sorry for the emo" but then I realize the irony of it. So no, I'm not sorry for it, stuff like this needs to be said, and all I can do is carry the hope that things change.
If I'm any judge, I'd say that's a fair guess at the meaning of life.
I'd take a miserable life over suicide any time. But other than that... I don't really think much on it.
Not to mention if God exists, then they have forsaken these people already leaving them to lives of unbearable torment. Looked down upon by their peers for being weak, and as an extra kick to the nuts they get to go to Hell too!
That is sick and twisted.
There is never no other option, though. If someone tried everything and suicide is their only option, then they've lost. That's never the only option. The other option is being able to endure, When they finally get through that 'abyss', they'll be much better people and will be able to say "I've been there" to someone that was going through the same as they were. The reason people think suicide is the easy way out is because, though it takes great resolve, once you get it over with, that's it, but one can say it is also a selfish act. Most people who commit suicide don't try everything and don't tell anyone their problems. How can they expect to be helped if they aren't asking for any? The "easy way out" idea that people have on suicide is because, A, they don't know how the is feeling and haven't gone through that or, B, they know there is always the option of enduring which, according to the person committing suicide, is harder. Out of those two options that can never be taken away suicide is the easier one. That's not to say it means your weak for it, though. The reason people think that is because when someone chooses to commit suicide, it means they have no more will to live. It really depends on the person and circumstance. It could be something easy to get through with some help, but the person will is too weak, or it could be something so great that it could crumble even the mightiest of wills. The only real strength is being able to endure it with or without help.
How long can one suffer? A day? A week? A year? A decade? If you put a glass around a lit candle, that flame will slowly die out far before the candle is gone. The flame will burn as long as it can, but once the oxygen is gone, then so too is the flame. For those who suffer it's a matter of how tight the noose is, and it constricts day by day, until one can't breathe any longer.
People will endure, of course they do, but they can only do it for so long. Yes it takes strength to endure, but to what end? That's why there's only the one option left, because all the life is gone already. The soul and spirit is gone, and the only thing left behind is a beating heart.
Just because you find one reason 'invalid' doesn't mean they didn't find it valid. Pain is pain, suffering is suffering, how it's inflicted varies from person to person.
Granted you confuse me really, saying that you can't judge the human race with one standard, but say not all people consider suicide for valid reasons. The reason is pain, and for whatever reason, at the time it is done, no other options exist as an alternative that is better than the option of death.
You have to understand the context in which suicide is being talked about as well. Because certainly there are shades between. The other extreme is the old person, slowly losing control of their facilities, lived a long full life and wants a controlled death: To say one last goodbye to their friends and family, and go out peacefully. The context I place suicide in is pretty obvious. If someone committed suicide via some sorta cult, well that's not exactly what I'm talking about is it?
...
Your bondage porn. *rimshot*
No seriously... it's shown me the light. ....yeah.
Just trying to lighten the mood... *sheilds self from oncoming rotten tomatoes*
If God exist, the Devil exists. So hell on earth might happen. But it doesn't mean hell after earth.
By most accounts I will go to Hell. There's so many paths to Hell and only like one path to Heaven. In the end I don't feel the need to pander to him.
If I am to be judged, then let me be judged by my heart; and not by actions taken in moments of despair, desperation, and pain.
I just don't want to take risks with Mortal Sin.
Respect your parents (not "love")
Uh... you can really ignore the first two without any big issue (I'm your God. Worship only me)
Keep holy the sabath... well, Modern Life goes against that.
...uh...
Don't covet stuff you don't have?
...and...
I am far from perfect, and Am much blacker in the heart than many around me realize, But I have accepted his offer, and I know that I am freed from hopelessness.
I wish for my heart to be judged, not to accept a 'freebie.'
I wish for my heart to be judged, not a statement of belief.
For if there is a god, in the end I will have but a shattered soul, a broken heart, and my story to show. If god chooses only to listen to me while I draw breath, then I do not care for him, and I will know that peace was not mine to have in life or in death.
Worth considering.
I think I hold with the view that if others can force you to keep living, they own you. If your life is your own, then it is yours to end.
I suppose that every situation is different, so committing suicide for a relatively petty reason (My BF/GF dumped me and now my cell phone is broken, goodbye cruel world) would require a tremendous amount of will, especially of no overtly dangerous methids of suicide were present, such as guns, knives, tall places with somewhere to affix a rope, taller places without soft places to land beneath them, loads of sleeping pills, et-cetera.
The impulsive nature of a large number of suicides indicates massive momentary trauma and generally some degree of forethought combined with what seems to be a propensity for what I've dubbed "terminal introspection", the process by which an at-risk victim determines that they should die.
Death means certainty, to some. To most, it's either a promise of change, or a promise of nothing. That promise is something a lot of terminals cling to. The uncertainty of life makes it generally less suitable for those tired of waiting for an improvement.
If that was the case, Heaven would be a very empty, very lonely place. I'm not here to shove my personal beliefs down anyone's throat, so I won't take that any further.
But then again, that may not be true.
I have to have faith that the God I worship is fair though, because that's what I read. Like anything else in life, I have to believe it'll all make sense when it's over. I guess that's why they call it faith, not cooperation.
Again, not to preach... Revalation says everyone will have an opportunity. To me, that means that you or I may well be right.
The only unforgivable sin, according to the new testament, is unrepentance. Not homosexuality, not killing babies, not anything else.
Christians are supposed to be loving and forgiving, because we're told that God is that way. Too damn many take the faith like some kind of exclusive club... It's disgusting.
Many of them would say that Jesus hates me because I'm gay, or because I voted for Barack Obama instead of John McCain, or because I do believe that abortion preventhion should consist of providing preferrable alternatives, instead of just outlawing it. I certainly don't feel that way. To them, it's nothing but an excuse to elevate themselves, as so many others do. It's nothing but a troll culture with a 2000-year-old book in common, instead of an ICP disk.
Frankly, I think JC would be a little pissed with all the trouble He went through to bail us out, just to find that we're using it to justify psychological and social degradation of others, for any reason, period. There's far too much hate, far too much self-assigned superiority and judgement in this world.
If anything, I feel that is the primary cause for not just the isolation of many of these poor, sad and lonely people who choose to end their lives at their own hands.
The Bible doesn't enumerate suicide as an unforgiveable sin specifically. It mentions people hanging themselves, and generally very despicable types, but I haven't read it anywhere as an unforgiveable sin.
...
Damn it, I'm sermonizing again, aren't I?
Honestly, there's definitely something going on, and I'm not sure what it is.
The longer a person 'endures' the more their soul is destroyed in the process. The longer they cling to hope, the more to shredded their hopes and dreams become. There is nothing noble about enduring. Enduring isn't living. That's not life. The longer it goes on, the longer people come to that realization.
If you're confused as to why people kill themselves instead of enduring, that's why. To endure is to die a slow agonizing spiritual death.
That's also assuming the soul can't heal or grow. I'm not confused at all, I understand perfectly well. My confusion only comes at the reason behind the "spike", if you will, in human misery.
You're also talking to a man whose life at this point is a result of a defective primer and water damaged ball-type rifle propellant.
It would be pompous and self-elevating of me to claim I know what anyone else feels. Such is the nature of this world. YOu said it yourself. I do, however, know how I feel, how I felt, and how I continue to feel.
I was certain beyond a reasonable doubt that I knew my limits. A year after that, I was presented with a similar situation and similar options. I made a different decision for different reasons, and I learned that even then, after I thought I'd learned what my limits really were, I was still wrong.
It's also been said before that whatever doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. Cliche'd and vehemently presumptuous, perhaps, but it points to a definite truth: the human mind never stops learning until it ceases to function. It never stops changing, never ceases its assimilation of material. In short, it never stops growing, never stops changing unless you let it.
This is the nature of the dilemma of human condition. Ignorance is bliss, but to feel, to know...
I apologize for bringing up another biblical allegory, because I said I wouldn't, but if you look at the story of Adam and Eve as an existential allegory, there's a clear picture of what happens with a human being during the pursuit of understanding of life, understanding of the world. As mindless droves are encouraged to be sheep, told that they won't like what they see if they choose the proverbial red pill. Some are too lazy to pursue further enlightenment. Some are afraid. Some are too damn stupid, and assume that there is nothing outside of their bubble of inherently limited perception and understanding.
Some choose to look deeper into the world and its condition, and as a result, are not only shown that world, but shown a clearer picture of ourselves as individuals, both introspectively and in our relevance to our world. As it's been said also, to much more truth, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know.
HP Lovecraft puts the situation right into perspective. "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."
More often than not, us flawed, imperfect things are all too often treated with the real deal. You wanted it, you got it; next time, be careful what you wish for. Sounds familiar, right?
Never be afraid to as the question "what if", about anything and everything. The trick is not to dwell. Stagnation leads to a decay of rationale, which will lead to intellectual and emotional death far faster than trauma or despair.
I... don't really adhere to the "What does not kill you, only makes you stronger" philosophy due to suffering a spiritual death. So were the "make you stronger" part might have a hint of truth behind it, I can say that in my own experience that death does indeed make you weaker. Perhaps one can say I'm being melodramatic, and say that I never died due to me still here and typing all this out, but in no uncertain terms, that's the only description I can put to what happened to the essence of who I was. For the person who I used to be had far more strength, conviction, passion, and heart than who I am now.
And I describe it as spiritual death as opposed to an epiphany of it all making sense, and my life would suddenly turn around. I gained nothing of any real value from the experience, only massive loss and mourning for it. My mind was strong enough to contain the destruction of my soul, and was strong enough to keep me from going 'insane' for more than a few seconds.
Though the reality of it was this for me: I did not suffer that 'badly' and I knew it. The revelation I gained through my personal loss was that had I been a different person I would have embraced my moment of insanity, reveled in it, and been destructive with it: either to myself or the people around me. It could have been embraced, nurtured and allowed to become something truly horrible. However, it was not something my heart, my soul, nor my mind could accept, and so everything imploded. That's the path I took, but I know there's people who took the other far more damning path.
I'm under no illusion that the human spirit is powerful or immutable. On the contrary it is a very fragile thing, and that what keeps it strong is the people in our lives. Those same people have the power to destroy it as well, and it happens. Individuals are weak, I don't think there's shame to be had in that, and I feel that's more closer to the truth than many people would like to admit, because we are brought up on a whole to believe ourselves masters of our own worlds, and that we can become anything we want to be.
Then again, I've never viewed any part of myself to be powerful or immutable, simply more aware, and as a result, not only more curious, but also more angsty.
That being said, my entire social support consists of a couple dozen people I know only as a small list of pseudonyms transmitted in the form of their self-assigned personasl over miles of cable, a couple of people from work, and my parents. There's definitely something to be said about strength in numbers, but the question there is, is it really the same for everyone? If everyone's situation is different, everyone's condition, then why not everyone's needs?
I'm not hinting at some kind of unitarian pantheistic or panaletheistic mindset where we're all gods in our own right. THat would be disgustingly egomaniacal, but that would also feed into your quip on us being brought up to believe we're all masters of our own worlds and our own destinies. Mind you that I never said I felt we were, but the truth is never that simple as to say "If not A, then B, and if not B, then A".
I can't help but feel there should be some sort of punchline involving masturbation here, but that would be far too 1/0.
Support.
I have a story that's stuck with me for a long time now about that topic. Personally I don't have a problem with religion in as much as what it does to people. There will always be one character I will never forget, he who went by the name "Theological Cannon" an all too appropriate name. As you might be able to derive from the name he was a fundamentalist Christian, who adhered to the letter of the bible totally and completely. What this this story has to do is with suicide, specifically of his cousin or nephew, I can't remember at this point anymore.
At any rate, cousin or nephew in question was gay. His family, including "Theological Cannon" believed that homosexuality could be cured, so that person was sent to some sorta camp to cure his gayness. He bragged about how it worked, and that his cousin/nephew was cured. About two weeks after the fact he reported that his relative had committed suicide, much to the horror of everyone else in the forum. I was a lot younger at the time, but it didn't take to much to realize that the person killed themselves because he couldn't live with his family or himself. He was probably convinced that he was an abomination for being gay, and even if that wasn't the case he family was probably convinced of that fact. To make things worse Theological Cannon in the end dismissed his relative's death as a test of faith from God.
That poor person never had a chance if all his family cared about was his sexual orientation. I mean sure his family 'supported' him in getting 'better' but the reality of his situation was he was left utterly isolated, nothing to make him feel 'right' in the world. I think the better word in this case was that his family was completely judgmental of him.
===
It's good that you do have support, and I don't think just because they are names used by people miles away does anything to diminish their importance. Having people accept you for who you are is important, it means you're not alone, and it means you have support.
I dearly hope the kid's family knows full well what they did. I've always found sexuality and religion to play very important roles in one's mental health. One represents pretty much the most basic elements of human biological and social needs, and the other represents the most basic of human fulfillment needs.
Being somewhat comfortable in my religious beliefs helps me with the fact that I am not at all comfortable with sexuality, though to be fair, it could have a good bearing on why I'm not comfortable with my sexuality.
When you try to cram the two together into one larger group, or base decisions or severe changes in one off of the other... Well, suffice to say that you're creating huge emotional turmoil. I know these "anti-gay" camps to be generally run by "Christian" neoconservatives who are, while attempting to do the "right" thing, blowing a basic human need way out of proportion. BUt then you get into the nature versus nurture argument, and like any other facet of the human personality, genealogy factors in just like conditioning and environmental factors, so it's impossible to say. You can't "make" someone better, if for the combined reason that "better" might not really be better, as well as the fact that, well... How the fuck do you cure blue eyes? Lefthandedness? CUre a family history of heart disease?
On that, I think we're in agreement, if I understand you properly.
We should chat some time. You're a bright guy. Insightful and mindful of others. I don't find people like you frequently.
It ultimately leads to my personal philosophy in life: "If you enjoy it, and no one is hurt in the process, it's okay."
As far as nature and nurture go, it's both. My nature for example was almost always involved with bondage long before I discovered it as a sexual fetish. Why? Because I can trace it. I can trace it to when I was like 7 years old and being utterly fascinated with spiderwebs (and the throwing of things into), encasing my toys in snow/ice/gum. It was just there, nothing sexual about it back then. I suppose the nurture half of it is that I was brought up to be caring, which is why my stuff isn't really of a BDSM nature. I certainly don't enjoy certain pictures as much if there's pain involved.
===
I actually consider myself to be a dullard most of the time. It's only every now and then my brain decides it wants to go off on tangents such as these, but yeah maybe can chat at some point who knows.
Sometimes, injecting some levity is needed.
Surrealism; expressing thought without constraining it in realism.
Dadaism; predecessor for postmodernism, antiart, performance art and generally a sort of anarchic art movement.
No one i know has truly been down to that point, So all i can understand is what i read. Pain can get too much for one to take... Something the briefings on Suicide prevention we Soldiers receive all the time. Seek help, Even if it is through friends, Or someone you can trust enough to talk to. We are not alone in the World, No matter how we feel we may be alone, There is always someone out there, They just need to be found.
Enduring the pain is easier when there are others, They out there to lean on for help, All it takes is to find them.
Enduring alone is harder than facing the Unknown world after death... So don't Endure it alone... Find a friend or someone to talk to, And remember to never give up...
To be alone is far more painful than anything i could ever thought of.
To leave someone alone in such a time in their lives is selfish... And for me shows weakness on their part... Weakness of the heart for not being able to help another who is in far more pain...
Though for those in pain do not seek out those in pain themselves, Not alone at least... For like our ancestors...
We Are Stronger When We Work Together....
No matter what situation it is... We Are Stronger...
What awaits beyond is another question.
An debatable journal entry, which I wanted to write something thoughtful, but I am always out of words once I begin to type on the keyboard.
I admire how open you are for every kind of topic.
FA stalker out.
Somewhat frightening for the lives of so many people to be reduced to such a blurb. Everyone has a story, of how what came to be came to be. Far too many judgmental people though, who will dismiss others as weak and pathetic and at the same time claiming that they would have did better.
But you are right, there is a point at which one breaks, and what happens when they can't bear up under the strain anymore, when there are no more options....
What happens is they cease to be anything you could actually call a person. Sure, there's hope for them, maybe they'll come out of it. But if they can't die and life is to much to bear they may become comatose or worse, or just become heartless, lifeless machines, going through a daily routine. I've lived like that.
It... does things to you.
I'd say more, but I've got to dash >_>
My opsinion on suicide is, I think it is stupid, in general (Key factor there) because there's almost always a way out of it. If you do do it, you were one of the bravest people I've ever met.
So, in short suicide = Stupid + Immense bravery
I just feel suicide is a tragic waste. You won't find your answer in the dark void of death.
I also hope the next journal is a little brighter I'll feel better reading that and it will sorta back up my argument...
But how does one 'deal with it'? How does one deal with uncaring, impassive, and apathetic authority figures? Worse yet if they are abusive? How does one deal with peers that act the same way? Everyone fights back to a degree, but it's all to easy to steal away hope from a person who knows little of it to start with. Especially if their life is devoid of any empathy and are systematically isolated. You don't think people are alone? They can be, it's not that hard to achieve.
It might be sad that people are backed up into that corner, but it happens pretty frequently. People are given no way out.
What options do such people have? Stand up to get beat down? Ask for help to be turned down? Look to your friends who may be too scared or unable to help? That may sound pessimistic, but for some that might be the optimistic view. That's the key to being alone. You may have people who care for you, but in many cases the people who care are utterly helpless to stop the pain and suffering. It's not too hard to shut people up with threats or humiliation. In where being a 'tattletale' is a horrible thing, or being threatened with being beat up if you are a tattletale.
The reality is that most people who commit suicide cannot be themselves for one reason or another. My sin was that I was naive, trusting, and different; I'm horrible I know, and I deserved to be treated like dirt.
Now read carefully of how I worded the last bit, and realize that's how most people who kill themselves carry themselves. They are the ones who are wrong, they deserve that treatment, because they are worthless. Which is why it's irritating and sad to me that in addition to all that they endure with a non-existent self-esteem that people call them weak and cowards as well, that they 'give up'.
How long should they have to fight? How long do they have to suffer before it's okay for them to give up. Exactly what are they giving up that's so valuable? At that point their lives are nothing but pain and suffering and there's no savior coming for them. Do they huddle alone, in the darkness, hurting, bleeding, and hoping for someday for the light to fill their lives and make it all better?
People who commit suicide don't give up willy nilly. Something keeps them here, and the longer they stay, the more it hurts, the deeper it hurts, the more of themselves they lose. It's a steady painful erosion of their heart, soul, and mind. When there's nothing left, no love for their friends, no love for their family, when the only thing left is pain, then why should they continue? They could have been clinging to the hope that things would get better for years, decades; finding ways to dull the ache but to what end? What's the point when all you're left with is the dull ache and no love?
To delve deeper into this rather unfortunate train of thought, the people they once love can easily turn to bitterness and hatred. Bitterness and hatred for the people who 'care' for them so much doing absolutely nothing to help them. Or even hurting them with their ignorance of the subject. How is a kid to respond to parental advice of "Man up, don't be a wimp" when all that achieves is a fist to the face.
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What would help people is form them to know that they are not alone in their pain, that others have been that same path; however, these people are isolated, afraid, self-contained, unable to reach out to anyone for the fear of their hand being sliced clean off. It is a sad irony. Their world is small, and outside whatever defensive shield, mask, or shell they've put up to defend themselves is the only place where they are safe, and everything outside is misery.
These people are hard to reach, and even if you do, they've long since suffered irreparable damage to their being.
It might be ideal for people to never reach this point, but they do. When they do, most people look down upon them as weak, horrible, miserable creatures who don't deserve to live if they are so willing to throw their lives away. I find the sentiment disgusting because it's that kind of attitude that drove such people their to begin with, and all people can do is kick them when they are down.
People suffer for so long, so much longer than they should. At times I feel they endure things that would drive the average person insane in a matter of weeks, but they endure it for years. The only reason why they endure it for years is because their torment is gradual, they lose things slowly. When I look at some people, I honestly wonder why they didn't give up sooner. Is that a horrible thing to say? Maybe, but these people live horrible lives. I acknowledge the existence of these people, they exist, and I feel sorry for them.
Can it be that bad? Yes.
Can it be worse? Yes.
Nothing is so bad that it can't be made worse without some extra guilt.
Is it that bad? Well people kill themselves don't they? I just find it frustrating that the only logical conclusion most people come up with is that people who commit suicide are selfish and weak.
These people had from them taken everything, and in addition to that they are drug through the dirt being called selfish and weak.
*sigh*
It's just... sad... a sad sad sad thing.
It's a situation in where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, Some people are lucky in that they have a good friend they can run off to, so they can get proper support and help, but others aren't so lucky. Not everyone gets a way out. Sometimes that corner, really is a corner. =P
Depression to the point of considering suicide is a mental illness. I've suffered it, along with many, many people. Choosing suicide isn't bravery or cowardice, it's hopelessness. It feels like the only way out. And you know what? I had a loving family, friends in person and online, and I still felt hopeless and alone. I never attempted but I considered it many nights. I hated myself uncontrollably. You know why? Because I was ill. In my case it was chemical and I literally just grew out of it, not emotionally or spiritually but physically.
If someone has been in pain for a long time and they want to kill themself to end it then what they need is professional treatment. If I had simply taken pills for those painful years they would have been neutral, passive years rather than life threatening. For other people, therapy along with medication is the answer. In rare, extreme cases, people need to be medicated and constantly supervised for their whole life not to commit suicide, but it's pretty unlikely you've met many of them because when they're this bad off they usually live in group homes or in hospitals and spend very little time alone or online.
So, no, it's not weakness. People have about as much control over serious depression as they do over their heartbeat... pretty much none. You can chalk up a lot of survivors not to bravery but instinctual survivor instinct. But choosing to kill yourself isn't brave, or foolish, or bad, or good... it's an escape. I am in the group of people, along with almost all professionals and human service organizations, who claim suicide is the wrong choice outside of terminal illness situations. And no, life isn't a terminal illness.
If there was a drug that could eliminate the void I feel in the center of my being, I'd be all for it, but that void isn't what I'd describe as depression. If preventing suicide was as simple as a drug, then people would stop with the suicides, but that's not really the case. People can be extremely cruel, and it's the ones who are picked on and have no good support from friends or family will end up down that path, drugs or no drugs.
If anything I think medications to deal with these problems is all too common, because depression can be caused by things other than chemical imbalances.
There are a lot of people who take their lives after they go off their medication. Depression is often a self-feeding beast, driving one to feel bad so that they feel even worse about themself for being unable to feel happy, which makes them more depressed... a vicious cycle. They'll feel particularly bad and stop taking their medication without even having a reasonable excuse... then within days or weeks they're so unbalanced, and so unused to the worst of their depression, they kill themselves. Many of the people who have died because of all these unfortunate mental aerobics could have been saved but they never got the specific help they needed or weren't watched closely enough by others at the most crucial times.
People who feel a void, but aren't clinically depressed, aren't feeling like suicide. If they are feeling like suicide is the answer... then they're clinically depressed, and thus need therapy and/or medication. It's as simple as that. As for being picked on... well, some of those people go on to become multimillionaires and others kill themselves over it. That's completely person to person, and the people who commit suicide sometimes had support and sometimes didn't. Support, though, is the most important thing to make sure someone even bothers to try and take steps to help themself, and a lack of it is a big cause for clinical depression to lead to successful suicide attempts... but often people in severe depression avoid support, thanks to that self-feeding cycle I mentioned above. It sucks but it's true.
However, there's a lot of people out there genuinely traumatized, and really these people don't get noticed that often because they didn't actually get to the point of suicide, but they are the ones ravaged regardless. People who can and will suffer breakdowns or emotional distress if reminded about their earlier life that caused the issues in the first place. Perfectly normal people until he subject is brought up. Medication doesn't help in that case. I belong in that particular group, but I was able to come to terms of what happened. Other people don't.
If I had medication to dull the pain when I was younger, maybe I wouldn't have been hurt so bad, but it wouldn't have stopped the events happening around me. I never suffered depression due to an chemical imbalance. I suffered depression because people around me were jerks. I didn't ball up into some shell into of myself until several years in when it all became futile to stand up anymore.
Such things aren't a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain, they are a result of having your soul ripped and clawed at. Meds don't solve spiritual damage.
That points to the fact that modern treatment _is_ stemming the rates, and while it doesn't and probably will never approach 100% survival rates... things are getting better.
Medication might not change the environment someone is in, but the right medication can change your outlook on said environment. That's all that matters when someone is on the very edge of taking their life and needs to make it just a little longer. I agree, however, that drugs are not the end-all, be-all solution to this problem. I mentioned therapy several times, however, and between the careful combination of that, possibly meds depending on the situation, and time, almost everyone can be saved.
I'm sorry, but from a professional standpoint there is no spiritual damage, except in the metaphor of having one's spirits crushed. There is simply mental trauma, which is precisely what therapy is for. Have you been through a year or two of counseling to try and work through these problems? You don't have to answer if you don't want to.
In the end, I don't really have a 'problem' anymore. I worked through my issues on my own, and for me I only know what I experienced. Would council help? At this point in my life there's nothing to help. I look back on my life at those times and take them as a life lesson on the shallowness and cruelness of humanity. The memories don't hurt, it's just left me with a certain emptiness. Not something I can ascribe to being fixed because the best explaination is that something is missing, and it's not the shape of a pill. I doubt it's therapy shaped either.
There would be a time in where it would hurt greatly, and would be extremely difficult to face what happened, and the memories of such, but that's no the case these days. I don't break down into tears over what happened, or sink into deep depression because of it. I find myself stable, and generally 'healthy' and don't need meds to increase my mood.
Though I have to disagree, there are simply things that therapy cannot repair. The knife can run too deep, and the scarring too thick. I know who I used to be, and I know that who I am, is not that person anymore. The essence of who I am changed, and what was lost because of it won't be reclaimed through any sort of therapy. I have no desire to wind back the clock to try and fix things lost, or to sift through the rubble to find the bits and pieces. It's not like things can be patched up with glue and duct tape.
You can stop people from killing themselves, you can maybe patch up some of the holes, but I wouldn't consider such people as complete or whole. Not when people relapse or fall off the the horse. I can't really see smiling happy people if you were to talk about what haunted them for so long unless they were lobotomized.
It's one thing to tell someone that "You have people who love and care for you" when that statement is true. It's another to try to pass that on to a person in where it's not the truth. Really people like that well seldom end up with a therapist anyways because no one would care enough to do so.
As far is the spiritual thing goes, I'm an agnostic. For me to believe is to experience, and I've experienced enough to decide that there is something more. And I'm sorry as well, but for many people the heart and the soul does exist. Perhaps you wish to rationalize it into neural pathways, and electrical brain activity, and that maybe the case, but even in that context science doesn't know enough about the brain past effecting mood with what I'd describe as a shotgun effect. Though as I said, I'm of the belief that there is something past that due to things I've witnessed and experienced.
The larger part of the problem is created through society more than it is chemical imbalances. Suicide as a result of despair seems to be relatively new to human history. In addition there has been a study that it shows that abused people, especially younger people react to stress in wildly different ways from 'normal' people; that their brains have ended up being different during the development. Any sort of modern-day treatment for depression I feel is more akin to using leeches to cure disease.
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Fixing people wasn't even the point of my journal post to begin with. It has more to do with the pandering and snubbing of the situation. The belief in where people decide to boil down the situation of that it's no big deal, that it can be fixed, and that you kill yourself, oh well, you were a weakling who didn't deserve to live anyways.
All well and good if you can give the poor people medication and treatment, but not everyone has that luxury.
However, if someone is only in the stage of contemplating suicide, then I'll be more willing to help. Any glimmer of light shed onto their eternal night could be the difference between life and death, whether that be giving them a friend, or giving them a hobby.
There are some lost cases out there, like people on machines that will never get better that want to be in control of their death. I say, "Why stop them?" Anyone who would be willing to stop them whilst fully knowing that it will only cause the person they are trying to "save" more pain, in the end, shows who the true selfish person is.
Of course, I can't say I understand how you feel because I've never needed to step in the shoes of someone who contemplated suicide because, let's face it, my life is great. Usually I stand on a neutral stand point on these types of debates, but I can't do that now because I have yet to see past the light enveloping my world and stepped into the darkness of fear, misery, or pain. It's not some place I want to go anytime soon.
I still stand by what I said about not everyone using suicide as a last resort. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people who commit suicide do it when they only lose one battle and not the war. However, if someone has gone that low into the abyss called "misery", then there's really not much you can do for them except wait for the inevitable. As long as there is a person who doesn't want you do die, then there is a silver lining.
Suicide is not a weakness. I'm going to use a controversial example so I hope no one gets offended online. Hitler perhaps had one of the greatest wills in human history. He is in no way a hero though. Yet towards the end of World War II, he had no options but to kill himself. So he did. Suicide doesn't happen to weak willed people. It happens to victims of circumstance and, though it'll never be viewed as noble, it shouldn't be viewed as a "coward's way out".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWtwKHeDzC4
Use it to be happy
I look at suicide as "giving up," but that doesn't mean it's an easy thing to do. Part of my reason for viewing it as that, though, is to make it not seem like an option for myself. Usually when I hear about someone's suicide, I blame the people around them--nobody should be driven to such an act. Other times, suicide is a mis-guided act of selflessness, such as in the case of Virginia Wolf, who believed herself to have become a burden on all those around her, and she wished to free them. I have a lot of respect for her, too, and in a way, she was artistic in her method. She filled the pockets of an overcoat with stones and walked into a river. I think there should have been another option, but I wasn't there. At that time, especially, she probably would've been sent to a sanatorium, and she knew that--that was probably something worse than death; few people actually "got better" by stays in those places.
I'm in absolute agreement with the concept of "assisted suicide" for people with terminal illnesses. Maybe in some other situations, it's not wrong, too.
I know for me, when I start to think about considering it, I think of the harm it would do to my dad. There's a good chance that with out me, he'd probably kill himself, too. That's kept me from ever seriously considering it. I'd like to think that by the time he's gone, I'll either be in a better state generally, or have someone else who I know cares a lot about whether I live or die.
But, the thing is, my friends don't count for much then...I've thought of some of them, and I've thought, "yeah, that would suck for them, but they'd get over it." So I can see how if someone doesn't feel like they have anybody who cares enough, they'd just go through with it.
I think it's been detrimental for people to talk about suicide so much as a "call for attention." It's more like a "cry for help," but terming it as an attempt to get attention makes it sound like something petty. Sure, there are people who will talk about it, threaten it, whatever and not mean it(and I've encountered one or two like that before), but they often betray themselves, too, in how they go about that. Usually, though, it's that last chance, that point of feeling like nobody really cares. Chances are, they haven't decided 100% to do it, but they're testing the waters. If nobody bites, then they'll know that it won't matter, and it's ok to go ahead. The thing is, people who really do care may think that the "helpful" thing is to dismiss it, thus causing the one thing that they could've helped to avoid--probably because they also didn't want to admit that maybe things really were that bad.
I doubt too many people know how to react to someone saying "I've been thinking about killing myself" and I don't think enough people take those words seriously enough.
I've also had the thoughts flit through my head along the lines of, "I wouldn't kill myself, but if I should just happen to die, I wonder how so-and-so would react? They'd probably only miss that I did this and that, and not really me." I think I've hoped to die once or twice...I just wasn't at that level of being ready to take responsibility for it.
I think most people would have no idea how to react to someone sharing thoughts of suicide. Too many people would belittle the person for saying something like that, and many others might say something encouraging, but the words would ring hollow.
Secondly, MEDICINES DON'T HELP EVERYONE. In fact, they don't help most people. Also, there are at least two major kinds of depression meds, which work with two different chemicals. There is NO test to see if you even HAVE an imbalance, let alone which chemical you need. If you happen to take the wrong one for you, it makes everything exponentially worse. I've watched it nearly kill my best friend - twice. The NUMBER ONE "symptom" of depression medicines - all of them - is SUICIDE. Maybe better medicine will help more in the future, but right now we just don't have the technology. (Sorry for the caps guys, but that shit pisses me off.)
Third, I've been in counseling for almost a year now, and it has done little for me at all. To be honest, the weak-ass medicine I take has done more. Counseling only helps so much. It's pure catharsis. It will NEVER solve problems or make bad things in your past go away. All there is to do is learn to deal with it or don't - which typically ends in suicide or just plain going insane because eventually it will catch up to you.
Fourth, although there have been plenty of times I have wanted to call suicidal people "weak" or "cowardly" because I've been through so much more shit in my life than they will ever know, I know that would only make the situation worse, so I would/have never done it. I accept that not everyone has my willpower... so I try to share it with them. Seriously though... don't make bad things worse. It's just hurtful, and it will make you feel horribly, horribly guilty if you tell someone something like that and then they feel even worse and do it. If someone tells you they're suicidal, you should try to help them, and not by tying the noose for them. In my experience, most cases boil down to just being lonely - which I can fix. ^.=.^ ... It's when it is from something worse that it gets difficult.
I'll comment more later when I'm more awake...
On an aside, if anyone wants to hear how much worse life can be, I'm always happy to bitch to people to make them see how great they have it.
*/end rant* ... for now. >.=.>
I certainly can't compare myself to those who have done things to create wondrous things, for at best I'm an artist and a philosopher, at worst a blight on society. The dangers of thinking is that you become instantly dangerous, because you instantly create enemies that would wish to destroy your way of thinking, and that goes beyond simple ridiculing that inventors used to contend with.