No Good Deed Goes Unpunished...
6 years ago
As you may have noticed, the administration of Fur Affinity has rolled out an optional system through which art admirers can donate $5 tips to artists. It's basically a Paypal tip jar that an artist can attach to his or her page.
And the Fur Affinity community totally lost its sh*t. And not in a good way.
I slogged through about a thousand posts last night, two-thirds of which were paranoid, fearful, negative, ignorant, and/or downright insulting. Now, I can understand a concern about linking one's Paypal account to a site that's not secure. But from the tone of the comments, you'd think Fur Affinity and Paypal were teaming up to rob people. One person even used the term "honey pot" to describe what he thought was going to happen--that Paypal would get a list of people who produce NSFW art and ban them and seize their accounts. Apparently Paypal is viewed as some sort of evil, furry-hating monster that wants to enforce some code of ethics and morality and do everything it can to steal money from people.
The admins patiently kept explaining that this was a voluntary add-on, which only utilized a person's Paypal email address, not actual access to their entire Paypal account. Anyone who's used Paypal for a transaction has already supplied that information, especially if they have a tip jar or a Patreon account on their page. Further, they had to keep reiterating that this was actual money going into an actual bank account, not "points" or "furry bitcoin." They just called the function "shinies" because it sounded cute and was in keeping with the furry theme.
The admins also had to keep explaining that they worked with a dedicated representative from Paypal to design this feature, and that Paypal was aware of what Fur Affinity is, and that no Paypal Police were going to be breaking down anybody's door over this. Paypal may indeed have a policy against using their system to pay for digitally-delivered pornography, but this Shiny Button is a tip, not a means of purchasing goods or services. It's a gift, a reward, and that doesn't trigger the NSFW gestapo to drop a hammer on anybody's account.
I was really shocked by the vehement resistance to this feature. When so many artists whine and beg for money, here they were, screaming about something that is going to facilitate the ability of people to impulsively hand them gifts of $5.
Some people snarled that this was just a johnny-come-lately version of Kofi. So what? The Shiny Button allows a viewer to click on it, go to Paypal, and conclude the transaction at Paypal's secure site. They won't need to go to contact the artist or another site to get a link to go to yet another site in order to make that tip--by which time their desire to do so may have abated. We've ennabled a one-click-and-move-on mentality with this Internet culture, and anything more than a quickie upvote isn't worth the effort to most folks.
A lot of people complained about how there were many more important upgrades FA could have enacted, like making the site more secure, and letting people change their user names without needing to create a new account, and being able to blacklist search keyword terms so they weren't inundated with objectionable material. Funny how the same group of folks complain about objectionable material on FA and why Paypal doesn't want to support the sale of pornography.
A small proportion of the respondents did think getting a tip jar function they could voluntarily ennable on their pages was a good idea. I'll assume a lot more people who did NOT write in did, too, because people then started to complain that Paypal was giving a "system too busy, try again later" response when they tried to use the Shiny Button.
As for myself, I think it's a great idea, and I left a post saying so. I do agree that there could be issues about security, especially when I look up to see a big red Not secure flag on the FA address bar as I'm writing this.
But I'm all for a quick and easy way for artists to get rewarded for their efforts. And if that way makes it very easy for art admirers to use, more's the better. I think it's terribly unfair that Dragoneer and his team were getting lambasted for trying to do something helpful for the people who have been putting up their artworks both great and small FOR FREE for so many years.
Ingrates. Their cookie is too big to dunk in their glass of milk.
I have a Patreon account, and I am grateful for my supporters. But I think Patreon has been maxed out. Patreon requires an ongoing donation every month. A tip jar is a one-time impulse, or it can be a way to regularly support an artist you admire. This Shiny Button is not intended to be used as a mechanism to buy art ("This picture, twelve shinies...") According to both the FA admins AND Paypal's FAQ, that sort of use WOULD trigger the "we don't allow transactions of porn" clause--but only if you're selling porn. I can't imagine they'd take offense at the SFW stuff here, at least not in a legal and official manner. I'm not sure how fan art of licensed characters would be handled.
At any rate, some of the comments struck me like the outcry from drug addicts when the town council announces it's going to beautify the city by tearing down the run-down vacant buildings--"not MY crack house, you're not!" that sort of thing. (And oddly, many of the most negative comments came from people with dragons for avatars. I wonder if there's a connection...?)
Fur Affinity is not even going to take a cut of the tips. They set the amount at $5 to factor in the fee Paypal charges to process such transactions, so the artist still gets a decent amount of money from it. The system is totally voluntary, and an be opted out of at will. I think it will be a benefit to many artists, especially those who don't have their own web site with a (Paypal-ennabled) tip jar attached. I have a tip jar on my comics page. It doesn't get much business. Just spinning numbers--and NOT soliciting, because I have not ennabled a Shiny Button--if each of my 311 watchers here on FA dropped a single "Shiny" into my tip jar, I'd have $1555 extra dollars. Real dollars, not points or llamas or flying cakes cryptocoins or whatever else other sites use to reward people.
I hope that the FA admins can calm the tempest. I think once people see that "Ooh! We got money! Wow!" the negative outcry will die off. I also hope they can address the other concerns which have been raised about site security and some improvements to the system. (I honestly like the way things are set up. I can't stand the pages on Deviant art that are loaded with jittering animations, stickers, and a lot of other personalized muck that makes it look like a hyperactive ten-year-old with a bottle of glitter set it up. Simple is best.)
And in conclusion, if any admins do read this, I want to say--thank you for trying to help.
And the Fur Affinity community totally lost its sh*t. And not in a good way.
I slogged through about a thousand posts last night, two-thirds of which were paranoid, fearful, negative, ignorant, and/or downright insulting. Now, I can understand a concern about linking one's Paypal account to a site that's not secure. But from the tone of the comments, you'd think Fur Affinity and Paypal were teaming up to rob people. One person even used the term "honey pot" to describe what he thought was going to happen--that Paypal would get a list of people who produce NSFW art and ban them and seize their accounts. Apparently Paypal is viewed as some sort of evil, furry-hating monster that wants to enforce some code of ethics and morality and do everything it can to steal money from people.
The admins patiently kept explaining that this was a voluntary add-on, which only utilized a person's Paypal email address, not actual access to their entire Paypal account. Anyone who's used Paypal for a transaction has already supplied that information, especially if they have a tip jar or a Patreon account on their page. Further, they had to keep reiterating that this was actual money going into an actual bank account, not "points" or "furry bitcoin." They just called the function "shinies" because it sounded cute and was in keeping with the furry theme.
The admins also had to keep explaining that they worked with a dedicated representative from Paypal to design this feature, and that Paypal was aware of what Fur Affinity is, and that no Paypal Police were going to be breaking down anybody's door over this. Paypal may indeed have a policy against using their system to pay for digitally-delivered pornography, but this Shiny Button is a tip, not a means of purchasing goods or services. It's a gift, a reward, and that doesn't trigger the NSFW gestapo to drop a hammer on anybody's account.
I was really shocked by the vehement resistance to this feature. When so many artists whine and beg for money, here they were, screaming about something that is going to facilitate the ability of people to impulsively hand them gifts of $5.
Some people snarled that this was just a johnny-come-lately version of Kofi. So what? The Shiny Button allows a viewer to click on it, go to Paypal, and conclude the transaction at Paypal's secure site. They won't need to go to contact the artist or another site to get a link to go to yet another site in order to make that tip--by which time their desire to do so may have abated. We've ennabled a one-click-and-move-on mentality with this Internet culture, and anything more than a quickie upvote isn't worth the effort to most folks.
A lot of people complained about how there were many more important upgrades FA could have enacted, like making the site more secure, and letting people change their user names without needing to create a new account, and being able to blacklist search keyword terms so they weren't inundated with objectionable material. Funny how the same group of folks complain about objectionable material on FA and why Paypal doesn't want to support the sale of pornography.
A small proportion of the respondents did think getting a tip jar function they could voluntarily ennable on their pages was a good idea. I'll assume a lot more people who did NOT write in did, too, because people then started to complain that Paypal was giving a "system too busy, try again later" response when they tried to use the Shiny Button.
As for myself, I think it's a great idea, and I left a post saying so. I do agree that there could be issues about security, especially when I look up to see a big red Not secure flag on the FA address bar as I'm writing this.
But I'm all for a quick and easy way for artists to get rewarded for their efforts. And if that way makes it very easy for art admirers to use, more's the better. I think it's terribly unfair that Dragoneer and his team were getting lambasted for trying to do something helpful for the people who have been putting up their artworks both great and small FOR FREE for so many years.
Ingrates. Their cookie is too big to dunk in their glass of milk.
I have a Patreon account, and I am grateful for my supporters. But I think Patreon has been maxed out. Patreon requires an ongoing donation every month. A tip jar is a one-time impulse, or it can be a way to regularly support an artist you admire. This Shiny Button is not intended to be used as a mechanism to buy art ("This picture, twelve shinies...") According to both the FA admins AND Paypal's FAQ, that sort of use WOULD trigger the "we don't allow transactions of porn" clause--but only if you're selling porn. I can't imagine they'd take offense at the SFW stuff here, at least not in a legal and official manner. I'm not sure how fan art of licensed characters would be handled.
At any rate, some of the comments struck me like the outcry from drug addicts when the town council announces it's going to beautify the city by tearing down the run-down vacant buildings--"not MY crack house, you're not!" that sort of thing. (And oddly, many of the most negative comments came from people with dragons for avatars. I wonder if there's a connection...?)
Fur Affinity is not even going to take a cut of the tips. They set the amount at $5 to factor in the fee Paypal charges to process such transactions, so the artist still gets a decent amount of money from it. The system is totally voluntary, and an be opted out of at will. I think it will be a benefit to many artists, especially those who don't have their own web site with a (Paypal-ennabled) tip jar attached. I have a tip jar on my comics page. It doesn't get much business. Just spinning numbers--and NOT soliciting, because I have not ennabled a Shiny Button--if each of my 311 watchers here on FA dropped a single "Shiny" into my tip jar, I'd have $1555 extra dollars. Real dollars, not points or llamas or flying cakes cryptocoins or whatever else other sites use to reward people.
I hope that the FA admins can calm the tempest. I think once people see that "Ooh! We got money! Wow!" the negative outcry will die off. I also hope they can address the other concerns which have been raised about site security and some improvements to the system. (I honestly like the way things are set up. I can't stand the pages on Deviant art that are loaded with jittering animations, stickers, and a lot of other personalized muck that makes it look like a hyperactive ten-year-old with a bottle of glitter set it up. Simple is best.)
And in conclusion, if any admins do read this, I want to say--thank you for trying to help.
FA+

I'm assuming that a lot of people who choose dragons as avatars have similar personalities.
Not saying everybody--just noticing a trend, that the most vociferous opponents to the Shiny Button system all had dragons for avatars. It kind of jumped out at me after a while of reading through the comments.
But I'm also not blind to their faults. Some of which I share, like a tendency to hoard treasures.
And they have a lot of trouble buying pants that fit properly.
These are the same people that lost their shit when FA said, "No more cub porn."
And the same ones that constantly said, "I'm leaving FA" yet, here they are. Still.
Oh, and PayPal is ripping off Ko Fi?
That's a hoot, PayPal is the underlying transaction for Ko Fi.
Bunners
And yeah--as Paypal underpins much of online commerce, I was astounded by how much resistance to using Paypal there was.
Bunners
I usually wait for months before experimenting with them to see if they go bang when poked.
But I read the description and thought it was a good idea...So I enabled shinies on my account.
I figure its extremely unlikely that I'll ever see anything from it, as I'm more or less a furry artist has-been that rarely posts much these days except pics of my crafting stuff.
But I looked it over and didn't see any reason to worry about it exploding in my face.
-Badger-
Oh, look. Pennies from Heaven. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"
"This is gonna allow people I don't know to compromise my Fur Affinity and my PayPal accounts."
"FA artists are going to use this as a paywall. If watchers don't pay in, they don't get... (something)."
I activated the stupid Shinies, but considering that so far, I've earned a whole $9.00 from
I'm trying to ignore the whole thing...
'Course, all my complaints are moot if I can't actually get my butt into gear. =P I really need to buckle down and write more. Then I'll have stuff to publish. Even if I have to use my audience as Beta Readers until I can find some reliable ones.
What surprises me are the number of people who complain about everything Fur Affinity does, but they stay here, anyway.
They remind me of Statler and Waldorf on The Muppet Show.
I will say that, if the admins are smart, they'll get their Paypal rep to write a response. Maybe that will quell the fearmongering that Paypal is out to round up and kill furry artists, or at least steal their money.
But I doubt it.
I suspect that many more people have already ennabled the button in the hopes of snagging some donations.
Yes, it's not a monthly subscription like Patreon. It is actually better, because you yourself decide when to send a donation. And it is just that, a donation.
However, I can also see Patreon back-hacking it to get a list of people and then banning them. There are already people getting their real life hacked and f***ed up just for having the wrong political opinion. Loans and mortgages getting denied, banks freezing the accounts of customers and people getting flat-out doxxed by radicals.
If you don't believe this can happen to you, look at your phone, then your computer, and possibly your game system. Note that YouTube "Recommends" similar videos across all the platforms, regardless of whether you actually use that platform to view the content. If I watched furry stuff on my computer, I will find furry videos recommended on my phone and on my game console.
With this sort of loss of privacy and seeing real world consequences, people losing jobs, losing businesses, going bankrupt, being forced on the streets in extreme cases or even assaulted, is it any wonder why people are leery of this new technology? True, this is just a donation system we're talking about, but it's such a slippery slope that I'd rather stay away from the edge altogether.
If YouTube can develop an algorithm that does this, then what's to say any other site can't do this?
jerks.
but, I have also NEVER gotten a single tip, donation, or gift through them either, despite literally BEGGING FOR HELP FOR OVER A YEAR...
I have no issue with the donation/tip jar thing, I think it's a great idea.
I just wished someone would... well, never mind. I'll keep the begging to my journals, not that any one ever reads them
so basically its maybe a nice idea,
but kind of doesn't connect to me at all.
I don't know how, but I can already see the "This post requires donation" thumbnails on the horizon XD
Maybe it' paranoia, but the real damage Patreon ended up doing to the art appreciation side of things causes me frustration to no end.