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Chewfox
16 years ago
First and foremost, I'd like to openly apologize for my actions tonight. Due to the entire issue, I acted out of angst and said some things in the heat of frustration that I now regret. I'm not going to pretend I didn't, nor cover it up.
It was out of line, and for that I do apologize. You deserve better.
That said, regarding the issue as to Chewfox's ban - Chewfox was banned (temporarily) to prevent drama against her and for site stability. Due to the overwhelming response generated by the issue the site crashed and was offline for roughly half an hour, followed by the forums. The amount of traffic generated in a small amount of time nearly took the site offline not once, but twice. Essentially it acted like an internal DOS due to the amount of drama and chaos that was created. Given the site outage, I reacted in a poor manner regarding the issue. The ban, as I explained to Chewfox via e-mail, was a temporary action until the general and problems could subside and people could have a chance to cool down.
No, I do not agree with Chewfox's actions and I will openly state as such. That said, I do not agree with the open trolling of Chewfox on FA (and yes, I am aware I broke down to the same level of immaturity as well).
Again, I will not deny my fault.
It was out of line, and for that I do apologize. You deserve better.
That said, regarding the issue as to Chewfox's ban - Chewfox was banned (temporarily) to prevent drama against her and for site stability. Due to the overwhelming response generated by the issue the site crashed and was offline for roughly half an hour, followed by the forums. The amount of traffic generated in a small amount of time nearly took the site offline not once, but twice. Essentially it acted like an internal DOS due to the amount of drama and chaos that was created. Given the site outage, I reacted in a poor manner regarding the issue. The ban, as I explained to Chewfox via e-mail, was a temporary action until the general and problems could subside and people could have a chance to cool down.
No, I do not agree with Chewfox's actions and I will openly state as such. That said, I do not agree with the open trolling of Chewfox on FA (and yes, I am aware I broke down to the same level of immaturity as well).
Again, I will not deny my fault.
Don't let this piss you off, though. >.> I had at least an opinion to follow, not JUST a shout.
So why does this have to be an issue folks?
It's dumb, and it gets frustrating.
Don't know how long you's last like that on YT.
Have a fun night.
That'll make shoving you in the hole all the easier.
I can always change that.
...Oops, i made the page width wider
Sorry!
"Don't you ignore me. This is a perfectly good moment to throw you're life away"
Hurr durr :B
That's about it, though.
You could have simply foregone the "FIRST!" and made the normal comment like EVERYBODY ELSE.
Seriously, don't waste your breath. >.>
Om nom nom. See where I'm goin' with that?
He's an unrepentant idiot; I'm moving on B]
Why did YOU care so much to respond to everyone?
¯\๏̯͡๏﴿/¯
It's like, you're not forgiving him when you say that, or at the least very disrespectful IMHO.
I hate unwarranted self importance x.x
-Z
We're all human.
Now stop fucking around <3
For an easier term. You inhaled 20 lbs of pure sugar on Halloween night.
Some talk shows like Tyra, though, do have a hidden agenda... To bring onto the show the weirdest and most outrageous people they can. For example...Jerry Springer anyone? Obvious example of the show 'wanting' problems to occur, and outrageous things to happen, even though it hurt others. Tyra, meanwhile, seems to be going on a 'shocking' jig with their show. (I was particularly angered at Tyra's mocking approach to the idea of 'furries', not to mention that she 'grouped' all of us into one stupid category, as most people do...) So I really find most of the fault in the show, not so much who they bring onto the show.
For example, if there was another fur who was very reasonable about talking about his/her beliefs, somebody who would be a wonderful representative of our community...they would be deemed 'not as interesting' and not put on the show. =/
Shame that there was so much of an attack on Chewfox. The problem is really the public world and how they wish to interact with furries, not the furries they take advantage of.
I hope nobody considers me adding to the trolling in saying this.
Likewise, many (most?) furries "accept" that the media is very often out to make us look bad. So when someone is so careless as to make the mistake Chewfox made, it strikes these folks not as Tyra's fault (she's just doing her job, right?) but as Chewfox's for falling into that obvious trap. These are the same furries who initially responded with extreme aggression to Chewfox.
But things didn't really blow out of proportion until Chewfox tried to defend herself by completely denying that she did anything wrong. She continuously stated in the drama thread that the show went well and she thought she represented furries well. She not only implied, but explicitly stated, that she believes the furry fandom is about sex. All great internet drama gets fuel thrown onto the fire, and that was a LOT of fuel. (Whether she chooses to change her mind and take her statements back is her call when she can use her voice here again.)
That said, Chewfox probably learned her lesson (and then some), but yeah, Tyra's a cunt.
Im sure she had good intentions, but it was naive to think much good would come from this. Tyra was looking for ratings, not to bring a better understanding of what furries are to her viewers, she couldnt care less about that. Its like going on Springer because you think it will help your family problems.
No one elected this bovine except the show's producers. I don't recall ever being offered to vote whether this tub of lard was suitable to represent us and showcase the best interests of the fandom.
From what i saw she didn't do anything other explain what a Furry was through her stand point. If people don't like her answer then they should make a court of Furries and set down defining rules as to what a furry IS and ISN'T and explain what they CAN and CANNOT do. Until then any whining is a bunch of childish morons who are more pissed that someone else shared their secret with the world. There are hundred meanings to actions and words. Especially those that are used to define people and ways of life. She explained her's and everyone else got butt hurt because they don't agree with her views.
Some just need to grow some skin. We had CSI, Sex2k, Entourage, articles, etc.
In the words of the Joker, "Why so serious?"
You're the winner so far.
Because people act like we're some race or some shit that needs representation. That's bad enough, but the fact that people think we're so important that when we pop up in the media it's going to ruin the fandom. Good job guys.
To be honest, I was all "WTF?!" at first, but then I thought, "oh yeah, this isn't anything new. Meh."
Honestly, I feel it's the corporate people to blame. They wanna find outrageous people for their shows, not people with reasonable opinions. (Reasonable people = show doesn't sell. Yay for America! :D )
Oh wait..thats Oprah.
NVM! useless drama :)
Was the first thing I thought of. xD
It's so true, too. and I totally agree ((but I think I already said that on your actual journal))
THIS IS NOW A SUICIDE PACT.
bootline fits though.You were just doing your job so anyone on that side of the issue or yours has to respect that much. I don't know what happened but it's nice for some clarification as we all have not so wise judgement at times. At least there was understanding though and that goes a long way.
Someone wants to be a jackass in public, that's her perogative. When it impacts me negatively, I've got every right to resent that.
Selah.
Grow skin because one is so serious and goes crazy. :>
Internet is serious business, etc.
Yes I know this has been 'this'd plenty of times but it wont hurt to add to it I suppose
Just kind of, tune it out. Leads to a better drama-less life
>.>
But....
No one can tell me what happened!!!!
>^..^<
And that's the news.
Thank you very much!!!!!
Well. I can see where that would upset some furs!!!!!!!!!
And seeing she is on FA and furs knew that.
Tender Anus!!! LOL. After the server he has running this site!!!!
I do not believe so.
That had to be a beyond many furs commenting her page to crash this site!
If she said "Furries are people that dress up in suits and shit on each other and rape children" maybe the bullshit is justified... but... really? REALLY!?
Godammit. When you think furry what do you think of? Me, I think if people in animal-suits and horrifying pornography I find on this wonderful, friendly site.
And everybody, on this site, with their furfaggotry, is pissed off at this Chewfox individual for saying furfags perform furfaggotry?
And who the hell wastes their time watching Tyra anyways?
While I did not agree with your actions, I can understand. I'm glad you apologized; people were really getting outraged.
<joke>
*gasp* Dragoneer must be leaving the fandom soon, he's gone mature!
</joke>
And unfortunately for me, I am a very reactionary person. I try to walk away and come back later to approach things, but I did not do that tonight.
Don't beat yourself up about it. I think you did the right thing, given the situation.
Unfortunately, I wish she gave going on the show second thoughts. Because now, she branded herself, unknowingly or not. It will never bode well for her being on FA again.
May be "understandable", but that's "business as usual" for you, sorry, and you have no safeguards in position to stop that... just a constant, slow alienation of community members who would otherwise are able and willing to help the community grow and reduce any negative effects of that very understandable "stress" over here.
In general, you hurt other people and you hurt the site by your reactions, failing to explain situations properly and continuing to "apologise" each time does not help with regards to the community as a whole.
Now; could you please also fix that "groups are not allowed" fiasco which should have been dealt with ages ago (yet again, again, since that is /years/ old in its previous incarnation) before that becomes yet another needless explosion.
Thanks.
Take care & Best wishes, as ever, regardless of how that all sounds: wish things /were/ better for you and for the community at large even though the latter /is/ still already good...
I mean...dragon...er....thing...er...fur....er....
I go away now...
inb4 dragoneer baww how could you make a mistake in your whole life
Actually, I will say the video wasn't all that bad. In light, it gave a little more perspective on furries. Everyone giggled when Tyra told everyone about the general definition of furries. So yeah...
I totally knew what you were doing this whole time, too. It seemed like the obvious answer.
I messaged every player ASAP and explained what happened, and I believe Ailure helped me fix the foobar.
Oh God, I wish I woulda been there. Haha.
Of course people overreacted, it's in our nature.
Silly people.
People need to learn to keep what happens behind closed doors there ;D If you make it public to the world via TV, your just opening the floodgates to criticism XD
We've dealt with a lot of shit this year (Alan Panda) that's caused a lot of things. That was far worse for that fandom given the fact it went up the political ladder. But now that I've had a chance to cool down this is one of those things that will blow over.
I over reacted, a lot of people on this site over reacted.
Also, glad you had the balls to apologize, man. It's easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment when you're under stress. Takes a hell of a lot to be able to admit what you did was wrong, though, so good on you on that.
~N~
One of the saddest things I read on the responses to her journal (before lockdown) was from a fur:
"I fursuit and bring joy to lots of kids and adults with my playfulness. Now I can't because of what people will think."
Time will tell. I tend to think that the good fursuiting does will overturn the negative connotations.
I have not heard about that
*googles*
I've seen admins on other sites/forums/chatrooms act like complete jerks, and I always thought it came with the position. "power corrupts" and all that.
I am grateful to you sir for showing that among the thorns there are indeed roses.
As for your scatological description of drama, quite a good laugh :)
Now pardon me while I go eat some crow ;)
i don't agree an i smack my forehead a little, but i don't hate her ^__^
I salute you. :)
Guess no one is going to be going to their "furry reception"
As for you 'Neer, while expect better from you as an admin, let's face it:people are people, regardless of what their position is. Look at Representative Wilson, a high gov. official, but he still makes a fuckup now and then. I mean, it's not like you're some precise, perfect robot, right?.....Right..? >.>
But i will throw a banana at her if i sees her at a con >:(
Jolly Good SIR! You are still luffed by me. <3
I am still going to rage, but if my expressing my personal rage and dislike on my journal is too much just tell me.
I'll take it to another site.
Don't want to be a banned troll for the life of me.
._.;
I can only imagine what this is going to do to her :V
Also find it funny that there were TWO furries on that show. Tomcat is barely getting any negativity because he doesn't have an FA page. Chewfox is getting the brunt of it all.
I'm hoping she's strong. She has no choice but to live with this on her shoulders. I'm hoping she can adapt to it.
somehow, in the end of my dream, I ended up making out with tomfox... ._.;
*cough*
lol irony
So ill just enjoy all the anthro porn while it last.
shouldn't you be faping to some lucky star with tenacle hentai? I heard its all the rage in japan
btw nice name calling, real mature
the website is getting closer to being unearthed
It'll never happen, nothing would result from it. Your worries are unfounded.
and make it kiddy friendly to the point where they see it as a pedo site? hell no
i WAS gonna post "Whats that supposed to mean?" but its more of an inside thing and people wouldnt get it XD
lol
Now, in regards to chewfox, I find the name amusing. Not a bad suit either.
Wow, really?
Shit furries, get out more.
better for Chew to get temp banned than have FA crash again yes?
It also applies to those who got perma banned from here due to them fucking up our image.
Nothing stated about Neer
You over reacted. Ok....
Was you seen? On web cam?
That is where I am lost on that part of it.
I guess because I see you as most of are.
In a room in front of computer no one else around.
Or did the news come by to asked you questions about furs?
Thanks
It's spelled as palm prē, but I didn't bother putting the line above the e before. And only lil pervy furries would think of it that way anyway. xD
At least it's a better name than the lighter version of the palm prē, the palm pixi.
IM NOT A PERV. I SWEAR. srsly though, no porn on my computer... >.> :D
heehee pixi.
i'm really fucking ashamed of the fandom for being so immature and retarded about the whole thing.
lol
That said I'm glad you made the right choice in the end. I'm certainly not perfect, so I'll try not to be too critical of what happened
It's like a reverse pyramid scheme or something.
Props to you Dragoneer, the leader of said group, you will talk sense into the other group members to forgive and forget.
As for you 'Neer, while expect better from you as an admin, let's face it:people are people, regardless of what their position is. Look at Representative Wilson, a high gov. official, but he still makes a fuckup now and then. I mean, it's not like you're some precise, perfect robot, right?.....Right..? >.>
I swear she had better apologize or I'll be so ANGRY FACE >:(.
"User has been banned for bringing shame to the fandom" does not translate to "Temporary suspension due to drama overloading the system."
Also, suspending the user accomplishes nothing towards that purpose that could not have been managed by simply deleting her journals, as was done anyway, and by taking action against those flaming her. How does blocking her access to her account do >anything< to prevent the flood from >other< users? It doesn't prevent drama against her to ban HER. But then blaming the target of mob attacks for the drama resulting from people flaming an individual has always been more common than, I dunno, blaming and taking action against the people doing the attacking and instigating the drama. So, no surprise there.
I'm just really hoping that people have enough sense to see how flimsy this lie is.
You banned a user on personal knee-jerk reaction, flowing with the screaming mob as usual. You backpedaled and tried to make out like you had a better excuse after the screaming mob backlash, as usual.
You say you're not trying to cover it up, but saying "Chewfox was banned (temporarily) to prevent drama against her and for site stability." is a LIE. The moment you hit that ban button, those reasons were NOT in your mind unless you're just stupid. Banning HER accomplishes >nothing< to prevent the drama against her or the strain on the site.
[23:48:24] <~Dragoneer[AFK]> The last thing we needh er doing is posting another retort or something equally stupid and riling up the entire group.
[00:56:53] <~Dragoneer[AFK]> The "any time" clause and the fact that if chewfox was allowed to stay on the site the resulting drama would be equally devastating.
[00:57:20] <~Dragoneer[AFK]> I don't agree it needs to be permanent, but I think that it definitely warrants a timeout.
[01:00:19] <~Dragoneer[AFK]> I deleted her other journals after they almost doubled in comments in about twenty minutes (from 300 to 600).
My comments from the admin chat when we were handling it, time stamps and all.
You're trying to spin this as if the initial decision was a reasonable and thought-out action, and THEN, you had heated knee-jerk response and posted the crap you did. That is very VERY hard to swallow dude, even from a person who is NOT known for doing heat-of-the-moment knee-jerk crap and then backpedaling and trying to justify it afterwards.
Those posts mean nothing. Even the earliest one could be, and in all likelihood is, just you trying to justify what you'd already done when, presumably, someone else on staff with a smidgeon of sense went DUDE WTF?!
Question: Would ANY admin this site has ever had have been allowed to remain on staff if they have pulled as many of these kinds of supremely drama-inducing things as you have? Nobody the site's had on staff has made as many mistakes as inexcusable, knee-jerk, personal bias, far-reaching, and drama-inducing as the ones like this which you make with astonishing regularity.
Even you would fire an admin who was half as bad at it as you are.
It is not the shameful actions of >the community< that earn us so much scorn any more than it is the idiotic actions of >the admins< that earn FA's Administration such a bad rep. No, it is the shameful actions of specific individuals, unfairly applied to "this community" as a whole, just as it is all too often the shameful actions of >Dragoneer< as an individual that get unfairly applied to "the Administration" as a whole.
Then, once the dramabomb has subsided, tell the user that if any future flames or trolling are dumped on her as a result of this, to not respond and instigate further drama, but simply notify an admin to step in and keep another incident from escalating.
Banning her was not remotely necessary. And his own comments against her when the ban was placed make it EXCEPTIONALLY unlikely that her ban was a calm and reasonable response, but THEN he somehow lost his mind and made angry troll responses to her himself.
i do agree that deleting the journal, sending her a message saying don't make anymore or else and then putting an admin warning about the trolls would have been just as effective. and if she count learn to stop responding and posting up journals then he could take affirmative action to ban her.
Even though his current way was sloppy and impulsive and he is cleaning up what he can of it now, all i can say is at least its almost over...
Apologies are cheap. Saying "my bad, I fucked up" isn't worth anything if you keep making the same fuck-up. Dragoneer's mistakes are always some variant of the exact same mistake: Taking significant instant action based on his personal whim/opinion/emotion, without stopping to consider >at all< the effect his actions have on the site, the users, his admins, or even what relation they have to his own personally-written rules here.
If you made a list of the big drama-inducing, administration-hate-producing, clearly-inexcusable mistakes he has made over the years he has been admin, the significant majority - if not all - of them would boil down to one repeated mistake. He acts without thinking, or if he does think, it is significantly lacking or flawed.
He deserves credit as Site Owner for signing the checks, paying the bills, keeping this place in existence for all of us. I won't argue that. But he is just not, and never has been, anything resembling a competent or even adequate administrator when it comes to him taking direct action on his own.
Because people who are raised to be remotely half-decent people tend to not >want< to ridicule and persecute others over things that do not directly impact them in any real way?
Ooh! Ooh! Or how bout this one;
Because the site has a harassment clause prohibiting ridiculing and persecuting other users?
So, maybe, a sensible administrator would be trying to enforce the posted rules with >at least< as much (but preferably more) energy as he puts into enforcing completely unposted rules. Y'know, rather than feeding the harassment, ridicule, and persecution by publicly giving his personal stamp of approval to all the flaming by joining it himself.
I am not agreeing with the super troll and personal, unrelated insults... I am talking about accountability here.
Also, I still used the wrong words before... I get it... I gotta work on my English.
Show me where I said this, or what part of my words you took to mean this.
I am not remotely against people telling her that she made a very bad decision, and that it was thoughtless of her to become YET ANOTHER example of a furry going on tv and reinforcing the misconceptions the general public has about the fandom.
I am against them just insulting, flaming, and >threatening< her for it.
I am against a user being >banned< over something as stupid as this particularly because of the amount of garbage people get away with every single day here that is absolutely and clearly against the rules, even as vague and poorly-worded as they are.
If we want to talk accountability, I say we look at the people who are causing direct and intentional upset and disruption to other users here, >then< maybe we'll start worrying about people who just make really dumb mistakes.
"I am against a user being >banned< over something as stupid as this particularly because of the amount of garbage people get away with every single day here that is absolutely and clearly against the rules, even as vague and poorly-worded as they are."
I am all for banning because of being a dumb shit. This stuff is hurting this community and furry fandom itself. She doesn't support any general interest through her actions. She has no real supporters for her actions. Why should she continue to benefit while she brings pain (along with trolls)?
Because being an asshole to a complete stranger for fun is totally not a good enough reason to ban someone, apparently.
The trolls and haters and flamers, who spread all the ugliest parts of the fandom, do a lot more to hurt it than anyone else.
So that person went on a crappy tv show and gave people the impression >that people already have< about furries? Eyeroll, yes, that was a really bad decision on her part, yes, but did she do it TRYING to fuck with other people? No. Does this site make even half an effort to ban people TRYING to fuck with other people? No.
I wouldn't be against fighting off "stupid" if there wasn't so much "malicious" already that wasn't getting any real opposition whatsoever. "Malicious" is a worse problem than just "stupid." Get rid of the assholes, then we can worry about the "dumb shits."
Plus just cause she didn't know she was trollin hard doesn't mean she didn't TOTALLY fuck up. The ban already happened! She didn't need an unban!
Everybody makes mistakes. She made a big one. Hers didn't actually DO anything to hurt anybody. The impression of the fandom that everybody is so angry at her for giving people, is what all the people stupid enough to watch something like the tyra banks show thinks of us already. And if some of them hadn't heard of us before that, >who cares< about the opinion of people who watch >the Tyra Banks show<? X_x
I find it really sad that people seem to have the attitude that simply-not-giving-a-shit and not caring makes you a mature and well-balanced adult. It seems to me the majority of social ineptitude in this community comes from people who don't care enough. Whether it's caring about others, themselves, or the effect their actions have on others and themselves, it's the lack of caring about such things that seems responsible for so much bullshit stupid ass-hattery.
If that's not what you meant though, then forgive me for misreading your comment, but a clarification would be appreciated if that's the case.
It's entirely possible and reasonable to consider how you affect others without obsessing over what others may think of you. Alas, this is a difficult balance, and most of the Internet population don't grasp it.
I don't mean to sound like a bitter ex-fur painting the whole community with a broad brush out of spite. Many of the reactions I've read (excluding people who ARE bitter/spiteful) have been "Ugh thanks for making furries look like they're sex-crazed" from people with galleries/faves full of over-the-top porn and avatars of a bare swaying ass. These people cannot be offended that they are being misrepresented; rather, it seems they have some mystical One Furry I Met Once Who Wasn't So Into Porn in mind and are offended on his behalf. Likewise, many of them seem to have only very distant practical consequences of this incident in mind, and are more concerned that some stranger somewhere might think badly of "them"—or at least of a group they're in, which equates to them personally.
Or maybe I'm totally wrong and misreading everyone. Let's go back and review all the comments and shouts. Wait, oops.
And banning her over it, well, that might make sense if this site DID do that sort of thing to people who knowingly and/or intentionally go around shitting in everyone else's coffee, so to speak. If this site was remotely known for tossing out people who make it suck for everyone else, then maybe I wouldn't argue so much with people who say she should have known better and she deserves what she got.
But it isn't. This site lets people shit all over themselves and everyone else every single day. Even if someone does get a fair reaction to their own bad decisions, it still isn't fair if they're the >only< one who gets that reaction while tons of other people get away with similar or worse without consequence. At least, that's kinda my opinion.
Blah blah blah~ Not sure what else to say here. :V
He admits he made unacceptable heated knee-jerk reaction comments to her. Good for owning up to those. But I've seen him do this sort of thing too many times to believe for a moment that he calmly and reasonably made the decision for a temporary ban for her good and the site's good, and THEN got all angry and made those comments.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe he's telling the truth. But I refuse to believe it because the truth he presents makes little to no sense, and would be hard to believe even from someone without his personal history. And given that his personal history has MANY instances of him doing something on his own like this, and then coming up with a better-sounding reason >after< the fact, the simpler explanation is more likely to be true.
He saw the drama, agreed with the trolls flaming her, I'll even give him credit that maybe the site being taken down was what tipped his anger into the zone of hitting the "ban" button.
But he did not hit that ban button and type that ban reason "for shaming the fandom" with her best interests in mind. So trying to claim that as part of his reasoning is just disgusting to me.
People do a lot of stupid shit in the heat of the moment. I know it just sounds like a excuse, but that is pretty much because it is haha. I will go on to say that evidence implies that it was merely out of spite, but he is at least making up for it now. He seems like a very prideful guy from what I can tell.
OH SNAP I posted more than I expected. I just love to ramble I guess.
Most people learn from them, though, and don't make the >same< mistakes too many times.
And everyone sooner or later, does something in the heat of the moment that they later regret.
But, again, most people who consistently and frequently find themselves making heat-of-the-moment mistakes, also make the decision to remove themselves from the position or situation where they find themself acting so inappropriately so often.
There's times when decisions really need to be thought out and in like this case is really the trying times for admins and the decisions they make as they shape what this site will be and parts of the community.
"Neer should rest if he is already by now, but probably should have another handle things for a bit or at the least take the time to think everything through because what happens from here is not going to be easy. At the same time, I hope there's less trolls and people out for blood, but frustration is completely understandable and people have that right to vent.
> Most people learn from them, though, and don't make the >same< mistakes too many times.
q.v. "I don't regret my actions. I only regret the things I said. I voiced the things we all think inside our head out loud." further down.
Royal "we", too? *shrugs*
Would you have expected any of the other admins that you've praised for having good intentions towards the site, even if they're not particularly "active" in that regard, to have actually done something... anything... more in this case?
As an admin here, you either do what you think you can do to help people without getting bitched at, or you keep quiet and do nothing. When Dragoneer does something retarded, you either ignore it and say nothing, or you speak up and get ignored yourself. Or if you're lucky, you get him admitting he was wrong and apologizing, but then doing the same damn thing again next time.
You can either put up with that garbage, and keep trying to do your best to help people anyway in what very few ways they're >allowed< to actually try and do anything without getting griped at for trying, or you quit.
Yeah, I know it's not easy and "grow a backbone" would be far too blithe a response to your question. :)
Despite the fact the site can more-or-less run itself /most/ of the time (and grateful for that degree of stability vs. what the situation used to be 3 or so years back), it's still not in Dragoneer's best interests to have a mass walkout of staff who aren't (apparently) willing to stick their necks out for positive change because they don't have the personal life experience to know how to handle a management situation and don't know what else to do in response.
I'd be positively embarrassed to be seen to be sitting there twiddling my thumbs - or, at least, giving that impression to the rest of the community, but hey...
(The old "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" saying is more often than not incorrect, but there's more than an ounce of truth in that, in this case, IMHO).
Dragoneer generally "means well", most of the staff probably do, too (even if a general attitude tending more towards paranoia is less beneficial than one of constructive openness) and FA's a far cry from being a disaster zone: still, if does not/cannot develop as far as it could because of such issues, that's inevitably going to be causing negatives on a community and personal basis owing to it's "elephant in the room" status.
Nothing you don't know there, though, as discussed before...
Cheers & thanks for caring!
But yes "grow a backbone" wouldn't be appropriate. At no point before, during, or after my time as an Admin did I have a problem >trying< to speak to Dragoneer to convince him of this stuff. But it did no good. People who had known him as a personal friend for years told me not to waste my time. That he won't listen. He takes criticism from friends and allies as personal attack, and closes himself off to listening to them. But he takes criticism that ARE personal attacks to heart and tries to win over the people who just blatantly hate him and trash him regularly. The trolls and griefers have always had his ear more than his friends and admins. And always will.
I tried my best to help improve things, and my biggest obstacle was always the site leadership. Even when I got other admins to actually speak up to show I was NOT the only one who felt that way, it was dismissed or ignored. Multiple times, I had the support of several admins but what we were saying was dismissed by Damaratus as "they're only agreeing with you because they're your friends." So I was friends with most of the other admins, but also somehow the sole cause of discord and conflict amongst the admin team. 9_9
Eventually, it began to affect my health. And I could see that no matter what I did or what support I got, it would not ever change anything because all of the problems of this site and community come back to the three people in charge of this site, and that wasn't changing any time soon. All beating my head against the wall would accomplish was a concussion for me, and stress for everyone else. So I left. And I do try to defend the other admins when I can, because despite the "not really doing anything" impression people have of them, they DO as much as they can do, short of doing things they know they will only get scolded and reprimanded for like children - something they should not be expected to put up with given the amount of moronic crap their "leaders" do. And so long as the site refuses to take a remotely firm stance against users who INTENTIONALLY cause trouble, the admins can not be expected to involve themselves in most issues revolving around the intentionally problematic users.
Go back to drawing blue bears biting through testicles.
I am glad I am not alone
This will surely appeal to the masses.
I don't think you really are a chinchilla at all. I think you are a 4chanchilla.
Heck, start kicking back 503's
But I'm an idealist faggot who values expression over people's access to furry porn, so I'd probably just leave the site alone and let it sort itself out. If the problem is that there's too much activity, letting the site go down seems like a great way to lessen the activity.
OH WAIT
Jewel
The first problem with >his< apparent attempts at this is that he just does not remotely have good sense of what actions are good towards that goal, and what actions are not.
The second problem with >him< trying to present that kind of image is that if it was remotely within his interests to try and improve the quality and atmosphere of this community, he would be first going after the many MANY people on this site who >intentionally< act to upset, insult, disrupt, and threaten other members of the community for nothing more than their own amusement or lack of proper upbringing. He completely bows and caters to the career trolls and griefers on this site, and his actions in this incident, even while seemingly acting to ZOMG PROTECT THE FANDOM served far more to validate and condone the trolls and flamers who were attacking that user well beyond what was remotely reasonable for the degree of her offense.
He always has been, and apparently always will be, inexcusably soft with intentional problem-causers, and hard on people who aren't TRYING to cause shit, but who just fucked up.
Someone I've met recently actually think that furry equals to plushophile. Even _if- it may have some correlation as there is no mutual exclusion between fetishes.. but.. not everyone in furry fandom even are sexual.
Chewfox's sin was arrogance, not ignorance though ;/
PS. I know , that I'm forum necromancer of high level, but I've met someone who made me recall this story - and thus, I searched for topic
But still, you have to think about these things. This is pretty damned benign for everyone to be getting their panties in a wad over. Jesus, hardly a paragraph's worth of words is supposed to be the final word on what being furry is about? One person represents furries with their statements, damning or not?
I'd say, given the forum's reaction, we deserve whatever the hell we get.
If people are going to cry everything someone gets on camera and utters the word "furry", then they should first look at what they make furry out to be in their own communities first. The Media is never going to get a good view of us when all half of us do is sit around and draw porn.
Where was the banhammer for these cretins? Could be wrong, but threats of real world violence were unacceptable on my site. Is threats of violence part of the TOS of FA? If so, those who made these threats deserve an IP and accountid permaban. Many fur archived the whole thread and can supply those to Dragoneer to ensure that Furry Fight Club lot don’t show up at fur cons, succeed in an assault, bring down the fun spirit of the con and get fur cons banned from that hotel or chain.
Sidenote: lol dude, nice avatar. xD
the stupid move on her part was them releasing their names on tv, im not too sure what you did out of spite and outrage to the situation, but at least you were responsible to publicly announce you apology and apologies to the persons involved.
Its not even worth the drama, make me wonder if someone said they were gay on live tv, back when gay wasn't social acceptable, were they trolled and yelled at by the other gays around them just for announcing what they are to the world for themselves?
( and i know the answer to that is yes...) sad world we live in.
THIS IS NOT A TEST, THIS IS NOT A TEST
PROCEEDING THE TONE ARE EMERGENCY ORDERS TO ALL FURRIES
*BEEEEEEEPBEEEEEEEPBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPBEEPBEEPBOOOEEE EEP*
FURRY HIGH COMMAND-WE HAVE A CODE RED, REPEAT-CODE RED
ALL MILITARY UNITS ARE ORDERED COLLECT THEIR GEAR AND PROCEED TO ASSIGNED DEFENSE POSITIONS.
ORDERS DAC99478738956782846873847398- REPORT TO COMMAND AT YOUR CHECKPOINT FOR ASSIGNMENT
ANTI-TROLL SQUADS REPORT TO YOUTUBE AND AWAIT ORDERS
*BEEEEEEEEPBOOOOOPPPPPRRRRAAAAAAACCCRAAAACCCCCBOOO OOP*
THE FOLLOWING IS FOR NON-MILITARY FURS
ALL NON-MILITARY FURS ARE ORDERED TO REPORT TO THEIR DESIGNATED FALLOUT SHELTERS.
REPEAT- ALL NON-MILITARY FURS ARE ORDERED TO REPORT TO THEIR DESIGNATED FALLOUT SHELTERS.
FURRY MILITARY FORCES WILL BE IN YOUR AREA SEARCHING FOR STRAGGLERS
EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY
THIS IS NOT A TEST THIS IS NOT A TEST THIS IS NOT A TEST
I like this. Thanks, Greywolf
It was just mob mentality taking over because people watch a stupid talk show for some reason and then decide to post on FA about it.
Thanks for having the balls to admit you were wrong, 'Neer. I know I helped add to your stress tonight, and I'm sorry for that as well. I still stand by what I said, though.
I really don't agree with how this was handled or the current outcome for it.. but what is done is done.
Heres to working towards a better future.
I don't agree with what she did either. ): But hey man, we all act out on anger. Just because you are in charge of FA doesn't mean you don't overreact over things that bug ya like any other human being. :P
EncylapediaDramatica has an article up
With Both Journals. http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Chewfox
Look at all the drama llama's forever preserved in .GIF format. It shows me who doesn't deserve respect with their actions and words.
I'll agree that a national television talk show is not the brightest idea to showcase something a bit educational about the fandom but I will give credit that it was an attempt and there were some positive comments that dismissed some of the more popular trains of thought.
Overall I'd give an A for effort, a D for delivery of the message, and a C for them probably not thinking the whole thing through as well as they could have.
Glad to hear the ban is only temp, very cool of you to admit that there was some immaturity as well, it says a ton about your integrity. Best of wishes that this whole thing is forgotten very, very soon.
2. You apologized.
You have a bit of history regarding this sort of thing. You're supposed to be above that sort of behavior. But then, *I* have my own history, so welcome to the club.
Something that might help in the future?
Write down the phrase "Streisand Effect" on a stickynote and paste it on your screen. Any time you find yourself about to make ANY decision regarding another user, for ANY reason, look up and read that note ten times.
Now, regarding the banning in order to "protect the site"? Perhaps it might be useful to institute a CAPTCHA for making a post to any journal or account? Put it on a timer, so that if anyone makes more than a certain amount of posts within a certain timeframe, then they have to enter an elaborate CAPTCHA code?
That won't help with individual comments, but it will certainly cut the balls off the assholes. Not that they had any to begin with, but you get what I mean.
In the meantime, "Keep Calm And Carry On".
One of their site's codemonkeys suggested a mod_rewrite to redirect */chewfox/* to a 503 status or something.
Would that have helped?
</geek>
Neer is a gigantic faggot.
Im amazed how powerful your averagefurfag is.. their secret power.. the f5 banging!
For a good read, click here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/945873/
gtfo
Yet people will still bash you for it, methinks.
I don't think I'd ever be able to handle myself in your position, 'neer.
why that icon
that movie looks massively stupid
Now get out.
granted im pretty sure that copypasta you just shat out reneders itself usless
kiddie games are down the street son
You horrible at this.
learn to troll beter
you're horrible at this.
I'm done. It's getting harder to tell who's quoting who.
Thanks for entertaining me.
you started the memes first, whoops!
at least you handle it
were people
of course we do stupid things and regret
my friend so don't get your bubbles
down
i didnt watch the whole vid but i get what happened.
...and before anyone freaks out on me, I'm talking about the obvious troll(s), not normal posters.
freakfreakfreak
Now get out.
I just hope others here see that as well...
The problem is people will always say things and judge actions. Some will take it differently and all media does is try to stir what will draw more ratings (as was already said) it's more people that flamed on either side of the issue should be more ashamed. Yes people are stupid, but if that's all that's going to come about from a fandom, it won't hold.
People will love or hate the community and that's always what it will be. It's their choice to be considered that way. Acceptance or not, it's just how people are.
I hope if it comes up in the future that people take things with a grain of salt. Probably others will get on tv and most likely it will or won't be for personal gain but it won't stop immaturity from flowing, just try to keep a cool head in the future and such. For better or worse we all laugh and cry together.
You're only making more enemies 'Neer! >:
... Love you really. <3
:P
Furries of the present and of the future: You are not skilled enough to go into a completely hostile environment, wherein anything and everything you say or have said, or do or have done, can be used against you and what you are advocating, and not make a complete fool of yourself and those whom you claim to represent. Few people at all can even save face in such a circumstance. This was a trap, and accepting such an invitation was exceptionally bad judgment. However, it has been compounded by further bad judgment on the part of just about all of us.
The combination of the television appearance on a trashy program, by furries who have sex in fursuit, a quality which seems to directly contradict the image many of us have been seeking to promote to those outside of the fandom, and a journal entry claiming that said appearance was beneficial was quite rage-inducing. And in our rage, we sought to inform others about the object of our rage. Thus the chain reaction of drama was set into motion, which led to the accumulation of the critical mass necessary to crash the site.
And to what end? The footage has not gone away; half the fandom has blackballed those who made a stupid decision which effected distaste in us and may concretely affect some of us based on this new source of misrepresentation of us unto others; indeed, Tyra Banks has successfully trolled all of us for personal gain, probably beyond her wildest expectations, so good job there, everybody. What's to stop the next show from trying? We ought to redouble our efforts to educate other furries, that they be less likely to believe that they can take this sort of thing on themselves and that they not otherwise fall into this sort of trap.
It took Dragoneer several hours to calm down; it took me several hours to calm down; it probably took or will have taken until some time after your first posts on the subject to calm down: this is unacceptable, but it is also not unexpected, since we all ought to be able to set aside our emotions for a bit while deciding on courses of action, whether to say and do what we did say and do. And if you did not post in overreaction, then good for you, because many of us did.
Rash decisions from emotion perpetuate the drama; however, the source of the drama is cultural. The fandom has a conflict with our primary cultures, but there is also an internal conflict of culture: some desire to make more people more comfortable with many aspects of the fandom, while others use the fandom to express deep emotions and desires which would be unpalatable to the outside world. Maybe this is obvious to everyone, but I don't think we acknowledge it explicitly enough. Maybe if we did more often, we could find better ways to allow that stuff to go on while better concealing it from casual outside view. If we could, that would help mitigate that source of drama.
One final note: if you are speaking publicly, everything you are and do becomes representative of the entirety of the fandom, even if you explicitly say that this is not the case. Try to take that into account next time, kthnx
(Hey, I'm proud of this tl;dr. :P )
Higher positions people do need to calm down and as a whole a community needs to let drama pass even if someone messes up. If someone is going to can you at a job for wearing a suit out of fear then that's their mistake. If others might not like you and show some hatred, well that's their ignorance again. The whole point in anything of what is accepted by culture or by people is to not be discriminated against. In this case here it's by action too. People will do what they feel to.
It's about being responsible for your actions as well and not get swept up in the media, and yes 90% did with the massive flamming to her. I can't sit there and side with those that did or those that took out the anger in similar manners because again the real world doesn't work like the fantasy land a forum does. This community needs to grow up or it's just that it won't be taken as it'd like to and be perceived as emos, perverts, etc. Change doesn't happen over night and acting that way in trying to reprimand someone doesn't either. We try to learn and move on is all.
Big whoop I probably would have said similar things if I was her. Some of you are just too high strung for your own good. Besides it came to a nice conclusion with the 'Awwwwwwwww' when they said they were just with each other and no one else.
Even though she was completely level headed and actually informative, she has ruined the fandom forever. The damage that she has done to all of our baby fur, voraphile, cock tentacles and cub art loving image is irreparable. /sarcasm
Least we know what's gonna happen in 2012.
the tyra banks show actually won an award for "most informative talk show" a while ago - people think this is how furries work!
hell, they were introduced as "this last couple are furries, this means they dress in furry suits and have sex in them"
this reads as "furries dress in furry suits and have sex in them"
that is the damage. that is the outrage.
I dont like being put into that kind of stereotype
Don't like it? Move out. I'm sure you've heard that from your parents before.
how the majority of furries work?
proof please or GTFO
also: the game
You are cancer.
Furries like to drag that shit out for months.
Infact seeing CSI mentioned in this page makes me sad.
Everyone here should be disappoint for overreacting, not just you or a few other people.
i'd say there's cause for concern
overreacting? i dunno. I dont like being represented on TV as something like that - i assume you dont like it either. I'll agree that the language has been VERY harsh, but considering chew's reactions to this (she actually posted a journal voicing her SURPRISE over how people telling her that she'd done a bad thing)
And second some of the furries in those threads were making up some shit. One claimed he lost "$30000" contract because his boss was watching tyra.
It wasn't a representation. Furry isn't defined as 'sex with anthros' but other than that, it didn't seemed awful, and considering it was about sex in general, so uh, of course they would discuss the sex part.
Furry has an image-problem. A self image problem, not a sex image one.
i am disappoint.
I love how most people here yourself included are so delusional. Either that or you're just really misinformed. I suggest you lurk more.
Anyways doesn't matter, as long as furries partake in snowball drama of course people will view them negatively. sheesh.
>I am aware I broke down to the same level of immaturity as well).
Damaratus, are you reading this? As I said, nothing ever changes here.
I just hope that everyone will really calm down and not start all over again when she is back. -_-
I know, it's pathetic.
Hopefully she and her mate will wise up about the damage they did and apologize to everyone.
I was very disappointed in some fur's reactions - threatening violence is going way too far and a violation of FA's TOS. They should have had their FA accounts suspended too.
Posted by Onikaze 09/16/09 11:17 PM
I would hug this person if I could. o-o
And I'm not the -hug stranger- type <.<
I am the sister of one of the furries on the show today and have a few words to say. I think that they did a wonderful job explaining what the fandom is about in the little bit of time they had on the air. They did NOT make the fandom out to be nothing but furverts. Tyra asked if "you BOTH" not "you" as in the fandom when asking the sex question. She asked THEM and them only if they have sex in fursuits. Quit twisting it around and ignore the audience and Tyra's reactions. The fandom is completely new to them after all. This segment was about the SEX aspect of the fandom. She talked about the other aspects of it and made sure to not let the discussion become too explicit. Myabe Tyra could invite them and other furs back on to showcase the many different furs. These two were very brave for doing what they did and hopefully a few people out there will realize that furs are not just what CSI portrays them to be or MTV's Sex2K. I did not hear the audience "aww" the other two couples but these two won some people over. Enough with the bickering and threats over this segment. There are plenty of others who supported this.
Posted by Amy 09/16/09 9:45 PM
As I'm trying to prove it wasn't all bad <.<
but.. Now that I see your reasoning for banning her and your apology I respect you more.
Oh and I lol'd at the first 40 comments on this
'OMG ZackBarzahd did the "FIRST COMMENT" thing on a serious journal entry lets act witty and troll him so we can be cool kids'
People... just ignore it instead of being equally immature as him. >__>
anyways, i think you did the right thing. i mean, you didnt just ban her because of what she said like some people here are saying in their journals^^
i dont know what happened besides that but i dont really care. you apologized so all is ok for me
S'ok Neer :3 Now to wrap this up, we just need one phucking huge LOL link of the day video/image/story.
Back pedaling on the ban gives you little credibility this morning.
Huh! So that's why FA was down last night.
Me? Were I Dragoneer, I'd not only have BANNED Chewfox, I'd've deleted the account, forbade her to rejoin and told any and all naysayers they were free to leave FA forever if they liked.
You wanna flaunt your sexuality in public? Fine. Be prepared if not everybody is going to be thrilled with the idea.
Y'know, I'd like to wear my furry T-shirts in public, try and present a positive image, all that.
But because of wingnuts like Chewfox, if I try, I get tarred with the "PERVERT!" brush.
And personally, I resent that.
'Nuff said.
No.
'Nuff said.
The way I view the whole situation, it did make me angry to be honest. It makes me angry that people can be so stupid like this and say that as one person they can represent a wrong view of what they consider a wider view of the fandom. Everyone has their own view of what the fandom is, personally I view it as someone with 'an interest in anthropamorphic characters' I don't see myself as an animal like what that woman was proclaiming.
It's annoying that furry fandom has been brought into the limelight once more though, the fandom was just starting to get a good rep again... but unfortunatly, it's gonna take a while.
I am not surprised that you banned her, but I am also very surprised that it recieved as much attention as it did. And the fact that it caused an internal DOS gives us an idea of how bad it is.
I am however curious to hear what you said
Anyways, I thought the ban was a little harsh, but glad to hear it wasn't permanent.
Everybody makes mistakes, and at least you manned up to yours.
There is good informing media, and bad " I'm an attention whore" media. National Geographic vs. TMZ.
Me? Were I Dragoneer, I'd not only have BANNED Chewfox, I'd've deleted the account, forbade her to rejoin and told any and all naysayers they were free to leave FA forever if they liked.
You wanna flaunt your sexuality in public? Fine. Be prepared if not everybody is going to be thrilled with the idea.
Seconded. No one MAKES you come here; if you don't like it, feel free to vacate. We may be on this site, but we are also the public too in a sense (and we're generally more unstable :3 ).
At the very least she's gonna have to make a new account after this anyway (if it does stay temp), because there is no way she's going anywhere without glares. They both have my pity in actual-public, because they're gonna need it.
Speaketh teh truth -nod-
And as for you, and everyone else in these threads who claim to not understand what the big deal is, or why what Chewfox did was stupid and wrong: Y'know, it must be really nice to be in a position to truly be able to not give a goddamn over what anyone else thinks of you. Unfortunately, most of us are not sufficiently independently wealthy to be able to flaunt the conventions of society without consequence, nor are we living a hermetically-sealed hermit's existence in our parents' basements. Some of us -- as difficult as this concept might be for you to grasp -- are actually freakin' adults (and I mean mentally, not just chronologically) with jobs that don't involve wearing funny paper hats and asking "D'you want fries with that?" 500 times a day. Some of us even -- again, as difficult as this may be for you to comprehend -- are engaged in our local communities, have ties to various civic or professional organizations, and actually have to work with the other 99.999% of humanity who aren't furry fans.
And we get fucking sick and tired of having to constantly explain to anyone who sees us wearing a T-shirt, or sees even an innocuous bit of PG-rated furry art on our living room wall or as a desktop image on our PC, that: no, we do not think we're an animal in a human's body; no, we do not like to dress up in fursuits to have sex; no, we do not have a closet full of stuffed animals with "strategically placed holes"; and no, we're not looking to screw the neighbor's german shepherd -- every time some attention-seeking, mentally-defective pinhead decides it would be just a freakin' swell idea to present themselves to the "parade of human debris" gossip media as a self-anointed representative of the fandom just so they can get their fifteen minutes of infamy.
Sorry, you jackasses, but it's not all about you. Put me down as one who not only thinks Chewfox and her idiot mate should not only be permabanned from this site, but fervently wishes there was some way to formally excommunicate the both of them from the ranks of fandom. And that goes for anyone else who think it's their place to go on national TV (or in print, or whatever) and publicly parade their personal assortment of kinks and delusions as being "what Furry Fandom's all about."
Didn't get past your first paragraph of BS. For someone who doesn't want to be judged you do a lot of it yourself. While I I may not be wealthy, I don't live in my mothers basement you judgemental fuck. What because I have the confidence YOU lack suddenly I am a wealthy little child who lives with my parents? You think I don't get called a "furfag" or to "yiff in hell"? It is called a back bone chicka dee, you need one to survive as a real adult in this world. Mommy isn't going to be there to hug and cuddle your every time someone calls you a mean name. For an adult you really act like someone in grade school :|
That's the thing, people here want to hate on someone for coming out to the world and the others want to hide. That's why you won't be accepted.
If you can't handle the hate that comes with our fandom why would you set yourself up for the drama? When company comes over, put the furry art away. Take it off your wall/desktop/fridge w/e and then you don't get the questions. Simple as that. There are people who know I am furry and those who don't for reasons. I could care less what my fiances parents think of me, but I know it would cause trouble for him if they found out, so I keep it under wraps. Forget just furries, all of us as a whole need to stop blaming others for our issues just to make ourselves feel better.
How's this: it's not your employer's business whether you're a furry or not. You're currently posting on a site which hosts some of the strangest and wildest porn on the internet. The problem is not a girl who went on a television show. The problem is your own discretion, and your own anxiety.
As Tyler Durden says, you decide your own level of involvement. Instead of externalizing your own anxieties and fears and projecting them on some woman who went on a talk show, and concocting a whole bunch of faux moral outrage, perhaps you need to re-examine your own decisions regarding the fandom. Maybe it's time to put the furry T-shirt in the closet. Maybe it's time to leave the art in the binder, if it worries you so much. Maybe the problem isn't a daytime tv show, but your own attitude. If your friends are hassling you about the fandom, maybe they're not really your friends.
This is a fandom full of extremely weird people, with extremely weird tastes. You knew this coming in. You'd be a fool not to know. We aren't going to change, and it's not any individual furry's job or duty to make your life easier. You aren't owed perpetual acceptance and harmony. Take some responsibility for your life instead of heaping abuse on someone, playing "burn the witch" and stoking your childish power fantasies of "excommunication".
Seriously...I'm incredibly late but this is absolutely perfect.
Is that going to get me banned? :(
In a community like this or any that isn't as socially accepted one way or another, it's just wrong. They did more than anyone else in being out there because they showed to me at least they aren't afraid of being in public. It was done in not the right way but still. I don't hold the show saying I support how they conducted themselves either because both were at fault.
This whole shock tv thing is wrong and when it starts to play with emotions of an entire group that it gets out of control like this, something is very wrong with it. The show went too far.
They tell you what the show is going to be about before they fly you out there and put you on TV. She knew what she was getting into, and decided that it would be a good idea to expose her personal fetish as something the entire community does. It made us all look bad, and she got attacked for it - and rightfully so.
This fandom is full of overly sympathetic people who don't want to put anybody at fault, and that's exactly why this sort of thing keeps happening. A tempban sends NO message, other than "You'll get slapped on the wrist if you make the entire community look like sex-crazed lunatics with wacky beliefs, and sex-costumes". People need to stop looking at Chewfox as if she was some 'poor victim of shock tv", when she very clearly knew what she was getting into (AND was proud of the interview). I still don't see the problem in banning this lunatic.
Honestly, since Dragoneer owns FA, if he doesn't want people talking on tv about fetishes of the furry community then it should be part of the TOS. He is NOT the voice of the fandom just of this website. His rules apply here but he is not the representative. Otherwise, banning her for going on tv as ridiculous as people have made it out to be from the actions, discriminating her is just wrong and liable for court. I'm pretty sure a law in the United States would protect her from such a thing, just a hunch.
If he has standards for the community he does have under the FA roof, he's going to have to specify exactly now to keep this from happening again. It's all up to the majority and what FA will be from that is what it will be. If they want the community more of just secretive, or do they want to be more outgoing? You see, that is the biggest distinguishing point that no one can fully address.
I don't suggest a slap on the wrist at all, I don't deny that it was wrong. (How many times have I stated this?) I'm just saying if there's a definition then it should be known because out of everything this site is more liable at how much influence it has on so many people.
People keep pointing to the TOS like it's a law. It isn't. TOS's are generally rules made by a site owner / product owner, in order to police their internal admins and users. When you're the "head honcho", you can make up whatever rules you want, or ban people based on "special situations", such as this one. FA isn't a democracy, and it's not a pay-per-use site. People need to understand that, before they go off pointing at the site rules. Guess who made them?
Chewfox acted like an idiot, sold out the entire community for self-gain, and got exactly what was coming to her. Like always, the furry hugbox strikes again to coddle the poor "victim of national TV", which teaches nobody any lessons, and just reinforces the idea that you can say whatever you want to the media, without any repercussions.
No site is protected against discrimination, deformation, slander or anything by those means, unless you want to talk to the FBI. Now I'm going to dig a little deeper as I only started.
Right now one of the biggest offences on this very site I could bring up is something how leinient fair use is used here. There are trademark characters at a rapid succession drawn and even sold by commissions that people pay artists for. As nice as it might be to get a picture of a character you want having sex out of a fantasy from a tv show no matter the time period is actually against the law. Fight me what you want on it, but how companies like Viacom, Cartoon Network, Viz, Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Microsoft , etc are getting more strict in their respected licenses of their trademarks and you'd have more than enough reason to worry. You know how Disney has been as of late? I'd worry about them the most. I wouldn't be too surprised if a supena showed up on dragoneer's desk. *knocks on wood*
That definition there, if people could no longer draw these characters, how would they react? How many would stay part of this fandom? It's a big what if and it's not impossible to the corporate world. We live here in FA mostly in a world of dreamers and it's devoid of most things of real life over fantasy.
If you compare and contrast the site of you tube from days of the past to days of the present they are two entirely different entities now. The past held a more free passage and haven for users to exchange content, now those days are long gone. So if everything was not 100% yours it could no longer be posted. The very same could happen at any time by these respected companies.
People want respect for being a furry and are quick to drag someone out who does go out into public eye to do whatever it is they do. If you seriously don't like whatever it is they do and want positive reinforcement, then isn't it time you do something? The fact is this, of any group what is the defining qualities that makes them a community, their roles, etc.
Today, what is a furry? Honestly from everything here I don't have a complete grasp anymore, if anything I'm more confused than ever. No one likes to showboat anything, but at the same time, others try to ignore they have this hobby of theirs like they are ashamed of it and that's what confuses me. You can't single out and condone someone if you feel you want to hide your ideals from public and someone else doesn't. Every culture in the past that was different endured the hardship before it was accepted. I don't see how in history it was ever conceived otherwise.
And what is a furry? Nobody knows, it's a lot of things. Which is exactly WHY we don't want people like ChewFox going on "Shock TV" programs and defining all of us. Say what you want, but she screwed a lot of people over from this whole thing, and is going to face no major repercussions from it. I can't single out people and condone them for going into the public eye and generalizing all of us? Just watch me.
Um... I think the word you're looking for is "condemn." "Condone" would mean you support the show's actions in leading people into this kind of thing.
I'm pretty sure a law in the United States would protect her from such a thing, just a hunch.
Actually, no, it wouldn't. "Freedom of speech" simply means the government cannot arbitrarily fine you or throw you in jail for speaking (although even then, there are exceptions; see "incitement to riot", etc.) just because what you say is unpopular with some politician or critical of some governmental organization. It does not mean that private citizens are obligated to listen to you, are prohibited from discriminating against you or holding you accountable for what you say, or that businesses and private organizations are obligated to give you free use of their resources to provide you with a platform to speak from.
Anyone else does something retarded and they're shunned from being an admin forever and never get the chance to be forgiven.
Yeah. I see how it is.
PS How is my comission coming along?
I'm also proud of the fact that you are willing to admit you were wrong. Many do not, but I think it's am important quality in a leader. I don't agree with how you handled the initial situation, but I definitely agree with this response. :)
Oh wait.
Had she gone on TV and said that SHE was into XXX stuff, that's fine. She's speaking for herself. But she went on TV and said that you, I, and everyone else in Furry Fandom were into XXX stuff. That's NOT FINE at all!
While I"m all for freedom of speech, those who use it should be held accountable for their actions. Right now, nobody is holding Chewfox responsible for knowingly misrepresenting the entire width and breadth of furry. And I, for one, am sick of it.
This website and all the others out there have no legal or moral obligation to provide service to anyone. And Fandom as a whole is not required to continue to associate with someone even after they've invented lies and stories to besmirch us enmass.
Let there be an accounting. Let there be consequences for going on International Television and misrepresenting the fandom.
Ban Chewfox for a period of one year for talking smack about you, your friends, and everyone else in Fandom. You have no requirement to provide services for anyone under any condition. If someone went on TV and talked trash on me, then my days of assisting that person or even associating with that person would be over. It should be the same case now. This person dragged you and your friends through the mud with malicious intent and forethought. This was no surprise gaff as a camera was shoved in her face - she wanted to go on the show and misrepresent her personal piccadillos as being the definition of Furry. She deliberately talked sh*t about you, me, and everyone on this site. Everyone on EVERY furry site.
So boot her off for no less than one year for making up lies about you and I. That would be fair. That would show that yes, you can lie your ass off if you want to, but the people you lie about WILL be free to disassociate from you entirely. And that includes furry art forums around the globe. It's not like she isn't able to pay money and host her own website somewhere. But she has zero business talking trash about everyone here then expecting you to foot the bill so she can have a free website. That's utterly bogus.
So here is a vote to show fandom disagreement with deliberate misrepresentation of the genre -- remove her for a year.
I can be vengeful at times...
This will have ripples of effect lasting for years. She should not be let off the hook so easily. In fact, I would be really happy, honestly, if I got to see her and her man banned from all furry conventions for the next four or five years. I think that would be a modicum of justice.
I'm sure these "ripples of effect" would serve as enough of a reminder that a personal message to her (Most likely in a negative tone) would be unnecessary, yeah?
You would only be giving yourself a bit of a bad name for doing so, making it seem like you want to cause misery beyond what's really useful.
It's a matter of opinion, but I think the guilt she might be experiencing is enough. A vendetta doesn't accomplish much more...
I speak this out of compassion, but not without an understanding (For the most part) of what has taken place. This entire mess is caused out of assumptions on what people never look too deeply toward to discover the truth. Essentially, it's not entirely her fault. Right?
But the damages it has caused are something to consider as well. Furry artists, fursuiters, anyone in the fandom is now a greater victim to these prejudgements... but nonetheless, I just don't think harassment on her end is any way to make things better...
The "ripples" I mention do not happen to her. She's fine with her face being known as a fursuit-sex-enthusiast. She will feel no effect. It's everyone ELSE that gets damaged by her actions. She just makes money.
As for my name? Fuck it. My name, my reputation, are nothing but a tool. You gain rep by being a good guy. You spend it to be a bad guy in places that matter. It's a simple game of human math. Forgive me for being so cold, but lately I have little faith in the human race, so why should I go out of my way to IMPRESS them?
And no, it's not entirely her fault. It's also Tyra's fault, and the fault of every person that propagates the untruth. But then, we're talking about blaming one person who makes her LIVING being a stupid bitch, and an entire population who share a tiny tiny bit of fault. Chewfox and Tomcat are the only ones that could have easily changed what they did, knew what they were doing, and can really be held accountable.
As much as I'd hate to admit it, you might be right.
However, I still hold my ground as to my views on harassing her... doesn't get anything done...
How's that for honesty?
A lot of us are split in many different directions.
The fandom seems to be disintegrating before my very eyes.
This is a dark time for the furry fandom.
However, regardless of the differing views I will hold the line against the trolls for as long as need be, I will not allow defenseless furs to be hounded and attacked because of the acts of 2.
I feel like we are on the verge of Troll War 2, and most of us are bickering with one another...
We must stand strong, we must stand together, a fandom split against itself is doomed to fall.
Why cant no one else see this?
I'd hope people know by now the only viable defense against any form of trolling is simply ignoring it.
They are impregnable against such things as Common Sense, Logic, and returning hate filled speech or arguing.
There are 2 ways to defeat trolls.
I will share one- Laughter
Laughing at a Troll diminishes its power of Hatred. The more you laugh and poke fun of its hate filled speech the weaker it gets.
I will not share the other one at this time.
You're kinda like, exactly the opposite of right.
I run Trolls off for fun on my spare time. Laughing at them always seems to work for me. Sometimes even using Logic scares them off. I try Logic first and go from there.
See, ignoring them lets there tiny minds think they've won. If you make fun of their comments, or belittle them on every single one of their comments, regardless of how much they tell you they hope you die, eventually they will give up.
For example I use something along the lines as this, to the nastiest of trolls.
"Awwww, arent you a precious little thing?"
*hands you a cookie and pats your head)
"Now run along and play with the other hate filled children while the adults continue theyre meaningful lives, alright little guy?"
This is just an example, but almost all of my post follow this pattern, the Trolls tiny little mind cannot handle it and they flee. Easy as cake.
The second you get pissed, they win. And they do not lose. They built the game, after all.
They may not "lose", per say as they simply get bored knowing you will not give them the reaction they want and go elsewhere, but they lose in the sense that they back down.
To me thats a win.
Through that virus, accounts of different things were hijacked from users who downloaded it. That is the type of tactics used. The old "wolf in sheep's clothing".
It can and has happened.
We're all human and can sometimes let our emotions get the best of us, yadda yadda blah blah blah, etc.
However, that being said...
I am extremely dissapointed with your actions. I expected better from an admin, I really did.
You are in an admin, and in a position of power and therefore should be an example to everyone else.
... oh gawd I'm starting to sound like my mom!
My phone and email blew up becuase of that thing that calls its self a women. Having to explain to my boss(on my break) that the fandom isnt a bunch of people running around in suits sexing each other, and isnt into beastlaity.
Besides I dont think alot of furs will let this one go, anytime soon. Till someone else messes up and they become the new meat to chew on
If you think Chewfox has destroyed the furry image in the public eye - why don't you bother looking around FA for 5 seconds and see what really kills our image. Porn, porn, cub-porn, fantasy rape-art, furries in SL doing stupid BS. Its not one brave woman going on TV and actually giving furries a SANE image that kills the fandom - its idiots that don't give a damn and do shit for popularity or personal gain (IE: those artists who'll draw anything for a quick buck).
Some do it fine, but dont go on representing everyone. I would go on, and would make it damn clear that not everyone is into that, and that I would only be representing myself.
Alot of people didnt get drawn to the fandom based on the sex part, I could go without sex ever again, and nothing remotely close to looking at sex and still be a furry.
Chew didn't give us a bad name. Most people know about furry thanks to all the negative drama thats happened this past year. What Chew did was NOT negative.
The only reason people acted negatively to it is simply because of their own insecurities. They're afraid that people will now actually bother looking up what that "furry" friend of theirs really does and find places like FA or Yiffstar. If you're really so upset about people finding out the truth about furries, then you should take your anger out on places that really make us look bad - such as this very webpage.
Just thought I should put my 2 cents too.
I don't think they were wrong in going on a show. I think they went about it wrong, though. The wrong show, the wrong focus, and even explained things wrong. For example, right at the beginning, when tyra gave her description as people who fuck in fursuits... I don't care if they had a plan for the show, If it were me, I would have stood up and said "Excuse me, you have that all wrong... Furries are people who enjoy roleplaying as their character. The sex has really nothing to do with being in the fandom, and the fursuit sex is something generally frowned upon by alot of the furs. kthxbai." Or something to that extent.
To be honest, I don't see why ALL furries are afraid of media, just because we want to hide the shameful aspects? If the nicer furs out there who see the issues were more willing to go out and make a statement and SHOW that the fandom isnt full of pedos and zoophiles, then maybe we could all stop shitting a brick when the less than admirable furs go out and get found. When such deviants are found by the public, what else do they have to base the fandom on?
I personally feel the "no media" rules at a lot of events should be revamped, to allow /some/ media, and show people the real nature of furry -- to have fun as the characters we pick or feel we are! Also, to keep personal fantasies and sexlives just that... /personal/. The world doesnt know about their next door neighbour's BDSM kinks, so why should they know about the next door neighbour's furry fetishes?
By all means people, go out and enjoy playing as your characters. Dress up in a suit and entertain the kids. Correct people if they have the assumption that furry = sex. If they don't listen, fine, that's their problem, at least you tried. But when you have the chance to correct thousands of people in one instance -- like on a tv show --, don't fuck it up so badly by allowing such comments as "do you get aroused when you go to Disneyland". That's insulting, and should be insulting to everyone in the fandom. Several of the comments made in the show were insulting and offensive, and should have been responded to more firmly.
That, I think, is the real problem with Chewfox and Tomkat's appearance on the Tyra Banks show. They went onto a pop culture show, and didn't defend the meaning of furry as something other than sex freaks who fuck in suit. Oh, and claiming to represent the whole fandom. Which they do not. They represent themselves as a part of the fandom.
My little rant.
~Kaa
BULLLSSNAAAPPEERS D:
Why SHOULDN'T People who do this not be banned?
I call them out on possibly damaging someone's life.
Just IMAGINE the damage it could do if someone saw that.
'YOUR A FURRY? YOU DO THAT?'
Even at workspace if you made a mention your boss could probably fire you.
I imagine it'd go sorta like this.
'Your being fired for talking about sex in the workspace.' 'No I was just talking about how I'm a furry-' 'I SAW ON TV JUST FINE WHAT A FURRY IS. YOUR FIRED.'
A housemom even just casually watching tv. She sees this. Her 15 year old son showed her an image of his two online friends in suits hugging sweetly. Two people that do NOT have sex in suits. ;Or even, just a clean image of furry stuff.
Or worse, is a CLEAN fursuiter.
How is she gonna react? She isn't gonna logically think about it.
;Because The TV INFORMED HER SO WELL, absolutely terrible information.
The person DID NOT Think this threw at all. DID NOT explain that 'not everyone who is furry has sex in suits'.
In fact very FEW furs dress in suits. As well as very FEW of those suiters have sex in suits. Even then, have two different suits. One for public,one for not.
Furr is NOT about sex. It is 'caring for animals'.
Anything else is a subsection, can be whiped off the top of the cake.
Spiritual. Artwork. Whatev. It's all a derivement from that single princible.
It was a total foul ball. Don't apologize.
Hell, I'm 21, but my parents know I'm into furry, and if they saw this? It would drive my family apart. It would, to put it lightly, fuck shit up.
"The people that care won't matter. The people that matter won't care."
If you think ChewFox gave us a bad imagine (which she didn't, have you actually WATCHED the video?) then why don't you spend all of about 5 seconds looking around on FA and the stuff that this community pushes out under the furry name. Show even a small portion of this shit to your family and see what they think of you then. I bet it would be alot worse then what Chewfox caused.
Sadly, that line is fairy-tale bullshit. My parents matter and they care. So do a bunch of other people I know. I don't do that, but god damn man, it was hard enough to convince them of that ALREADY. I explained furry in the best possible way to them. They used google. Took me another week of talking to get them to just barely accept that okay, MAYBE I don't need a straitjacket.
Yes, I watched the video. They allowed it to be stated that furry is DEFINED as people having sex in fursuit. If they'd said it was JUST THEM, JUST A MINORITY, then I would have no reeeal problem, would just shake my head and move on. But they fucked up bad.
And you know what? My family doesn't need to see crap on FA. Nobody does. That's the beauty of it. It's off in the furry shadows, where it's NOT being broadcast to millions of people.
Again, if you think Chew gave furries a bad name (which she didn't), then you really need to look around at all the other shit that goes on. There are far worse things to take your rage out on then one person trying to be Brave and make furry look halfway normal - fucking in a fursuit is nothing that anyone should be ashamed of. Jeez.
Its no weirder then people having S&M or bondage sex, or age-play sex, or roleplaying during sex.
You ever actually BEEN to a furry con? I've been to three, and not once have I see what you're talking about. It all happens behind closed doors, or so rarely it's not worth mentioning.
Fucking in fursuit, sure, why not! It's harmless fun. Just keep it OFF THE GOD DAMNED TELEVISION. For fuck's sake...
But then, just because other people act stupid -too-, we should forgive Chew for doing it?
Naaaah.
We're completely excommunicated and basically turned our backs on someone who honestly was trying to help the fandom. Read her other journals. She never had any ill intent or meant to hurt anyone - yet we're treating her like a furry Hitler.
Seriously. I don't think Chewfox is in the wrong here.. I think all the people "fursecuting" her are.
We should be an angry mob. What would they think if they saw us acting like this? I'll tell you what! They'll think, "Oh, I guess that poor girl didn't actually represent them!". THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT.
And no, if the world seen us hazing and harrassing this woman then they'd view us as punks, bullies, and dangerous people - more so then they already do. Can you honestly imagine if the news were to pick this story up? They'd defend her because, in reality, what has she done to us? NOTHING.
And if you still think she has done nothing to us, then you're just plain deaf AND stupid. Go back and re-read everything that's been said, I have no time to waste here if you're not even listening.
Its not people like Chewfox that give furries a bad name.. its places like FA here or the things that go on at Cons. How about people like Alen Panda? Or those guys who rape animals and claim to be furries? What about them? How is Chew saying that SHE, not EVERYONE, has sex in animal costumes so bad? I fail to see it.
Seriously. If you're this insecure about what the world thinks of you, then tieing yourself with something as publically hated as furry probably isn't the best bet. Especially if you're going to tell the world that you ARE a furry.
Being angry is one thing. I can see some folks being angry. I'm just saying there are some who took it way too far IMHO.
I don't think she and her husband should have gone on that show, period. She sold out, yes you're right. We agree on that much.
But, she's young, she made a mistake, and I hope she realizes it was a mistake... and yes, it was a serious mistake. But I think we as a community could have handled it with a bit more class and grace while still being angry over the matter.
Yeah, I concur that our response was a bit more rabid and uncivilized than it needed to be. It's just so extremely frustrating. She HAD to know going in what she was doing. And it's happened before, and it'll happen again! It drives me nuts that there's not a thing I can do to keep people from going out, and trashing my name by association, not to mention friends of mine who are hit harder than I am by it.
*sighs*
I just hope she has gotten the message, because last I heard from her she was still all smug and defiant, talking about what a "good thing" she'd done. If I saw her remorseful, it would cool my anger.
And even I have to worry about my family somehow catching wind of this. They know I draw anthro art, though I try to always mention the furry fandom in a positive and G-rated light (ie - "It's a community of artists and performance artists who have an interest in wildlife, animation and animal art").
Last I heard too (from a comment Dragoneer wrote in this journal), Chew was smug and defiant, and that is sad. Like I said, I hope one day she realizes this was a mistake.
Anyway, thanks for your comments. I did enjoy talking to you about all this! :)
Well, uhm... *cough* Except that my gallery is a lot more adult rated than the stuff I'm working on now. I really oughta clean that thing out someday...
While I'm not exactly thrilled about yet ANOTHER sex show on the bedroom habits of joe furry and his mate, they certainly don't deserve the utter vitriol that some people are spewing out over them. People showing disappointment over the couple's action is all fair and dandy (like i said, I'm not thrilled either), but eesh, what they did say isn't really worthy of some of the really nasty comments I've seen. :(
I'm sorry we disagree.
I'm not a sexual crazed nut, which makes it even more suspicious of what I do in my private time ROFL
And yes I saw it. It was horrible. Sure you and I see it, see threw it, etc. But someone who has never seen anything and is just hearing it will have a very.. solid dislike, for a first oppinion. People don't give a 2nd oppinion as easilly as they used to.
I feel bad for you.
Why should they trust me? If I was involved in some crazy furry sex cult, would I tell them the truth about it? Fuck no, and they know it. I don't hate them for not believing my every word. They're SMART. They are smarter than I am. And that is a blessing and a curse in itself.
And they care because, well, they care. That much is not your business. I made the decision to tell them about furry because I like my parents, I want to stay in touch with them, and I want to let them in on my life. 99% of people think I'm a moron for doing so.
But you know what? My fucking wrist hurts from typing at you dumbasses for so long. If you want to defend her, then go burn with her.
I'm not returning to this conversation, so feel free to get an immature last word in.
A lot of furries are sex-crazed freaks.
See also: the inflation and sounding pictures the owner of this site commissions.
Take a wild guess how many non-furries are sex crazed freaks. It's a biological drive.
Your point is?
Just a question.
"Trolling shouts or otherwise harassing comments against this user will result in action being taken against your account. What happened has happened, but further trolling and attacks against the user will not be accepted."
Nice job, 'Neer. Everyone does things they regret.
I voiced the things we all think inside our head out loud.
The damage is done, however. Whats been said can't be taken back. What was allowed to be done to her on her userpage can't be changed either. I shutter to think of the pain she must be going through right now.
She, however, did. She said by going on Tyra Banks that *SHE* was going to represent the fandom, and the repercussions of that are QUITE visible. People have already lost costuming gigs because of it. So that's guilt she'll have to live with.
And if everyone is so up in arms about it ruining our public image.. then where is the great crusade to MEND our image? I see a thousand people raising swords in anger and hate, but not a single person trying to raise a white flag and make peace. There is nobody, not a single person here, who is trying to actually make furry look good in the publics eyes. Why? Because when people like Chewfox, who honestly thought she was doing good, TRY - they get fursecuted by the people they used to rely on the most.
Great job.
She's not going through pain. She's proud of her actions and everything that transpired.
But, thanks for the apology? I think you should be saying sorry to the user of the account, not us.
She deserves far more than a little FA trolling. She DESERVES, to be blunt, to have every shred of her 'furry' identity shredded and shunned. She is no longer one of us. And I hope that face, and that of her male associate, are branded into our retinas for years to come, that we will recognize them no matter what new name they take, and keep them out of our furry little world.
Ignorant? Do you even know what that word means? What am I ignorant of, pray tell?
They appeared on that show to begin with, error number one and one they could have seen coming months in advance. They allowed furries to be DEFINED as people who have sex in fursuits. They didn't say THEY do that stuff in fursuit. They let the record stand that ALL furries do that in fursuit.
We have freedom of speech here. They have the right to appear on TV and say what they want.
We have the right to blast the hell out of them after the fact for being such idiots.
Nothing personal, just saying...
If we as a community can't stand against this sort of thing, and don't DISCOURAGE it, then quite frankly, we deserve all the negative publicity we get.
It's been feeling like everyone's against me today on this. >.<
But didn't 2 say a while back that this is exactly the sort of thing the community needs? To take a stand, draw a line, and make sure that nobody who crosses it is counted among our numbers?
Yea, that will make us look ALOT more pure in the eyes of the public.
No, it'd be more for our own sake than anything else. Start "burning these people at the stakes" (see also: ostracizing and outcasting), and you'll have a lot less people who get the bright idea to sell us all out for a quick buck. Will it stop it from EVER happening again? Nope... but it certainly would make people think twice.
..and as far as selling us out for a quick buck. Correct me if I'm wrong.. but isn't this what artists do on a daily basis? Don't they draw just about anything our perverted minds can come up with for a quick dollar or two? Heck, some of the artists openly admit that they're not even furries - they're just in the fandom FOR the money.
Didn't the fandom already do that? Yet 95% of them have pictures favorited or draw pictures of animals and mythical creatures getting raped up and down and yet people are OFFENDED that someone outted what they do in their bedrooms and it relates to furries?
I don't see baseball mascots, or amusement park mascots giving a fuck about this. WHY SHOULD YOU OR ANYONE CARE!?!?!??!?!?
Apollo-
And yes! People are offended by having what happens in their bedrooms dragged out into the public eye! Not just because of what THEY do, but by appearing on that show and allowing what was said to be said, the record was let sit that ALL FURRIES DO THIS. That is why I am pissed off! Because NOT all furries fuck in fursuits, but now everyone THINKS they do.
I DON'T!
Because really.... No you know what, you usually have to have a life to not give a shit about what other people think, so Im wasting my time with you.
Apollo-
Go do some research, or shut it, mm'kay?
Hate to break it to you, but science is not going to turn you into a wolf, not for a couple thousand years. So you might as well step off the acid and wish for something else.
Apollo-
Keep thinking I'm a hopeless blob if it makes ya happy. I'll enjoy my physics degree and fulfilling life.
Apollo-
Anyways, proof? Sure, when you show me proof that you're not some arrogant 15 year old who plays WoW in his parents' basement and never sets foot outside.
It's the fucking INTERNET, genius. None of us knows a damn thing about the other, so stop trying to act superior just because you don't LIKE me.
2. Do you need pictures? Because there are plenty of them all over my account, not to mention a couple of which have pictures of me with other furries. Not to mention a couple pictures from Iraq, as well as pictures of me doing stuff outside the fandom.
3. You're right, it is the internet. None of us know a damn thing about each other, though I think it is absolutely hilarious when people like you claim to have a BS (Bachelors of Science) and not have one picture of it to show what you are trying to back up.
I liked you at first, but now you are making yourself look like a lost child a sheep without a shepherd.
Apollo-
You could be the president of the fuckin' USA and you'd still be a douchebag for thinking these kind of meaningless journal comments need a signature. For thinking you're just that important.
2. Pictures don't prove anything. And even if they ARE you, you think I give a damn you've been in Iraq? It doesn't take brains to be in the military after all, it takes either courage or stupidity, or both.
3. You really wanna get serious? Test me, asshole. Even if I showed you the damn piece of paper, you still wouldn't believe I earned it, you'd say I paid off the department, you'd say I graduated cuz I'm on the football team or some crap. Ask me questions related to Mathematics or Physics, and I will answer them better than you can. After all, what is a degree for if not more knowledge than someone without one?
And I hated you all along, and now you're just startin' to bore me.
2. It does take smarts to be in the military, please if you are going to talk about something you know nothing about, do a little research because you tread on thin waters with the amount of furries in the military saying that it doesn't take smarts.
3. Doubtful that you have ever engaged in any sporting activity. All I asked was proof that you had some sort of degree, I would've believed you but apparently you want a question to test your elite skills in Science so I give it to you.
Question: Why hasn't the Magnetic Monocole ever been observed?
If you cant answer that question in no more then 5 minutes, then you are a retard.
Mr. Awesome-
Read my last reply. If you want an answer, note me. This page is starting to lag my computer just loading.
Mr. Awesome-
Mr. Awesome-
Unless Dragoneer does it.
While I agree what she did was stupid she is still a furry. She's like you. Look at your favorites. Gay dog sex, animal cocks, and whatnot. You're still a furry after all that aren't you? Oh you're the one worried about your parents finding out that you're a pervert. "But I'm not!" Your favorites say otherwise. Just admit that you enjoy anthro animals fucking. Some of us have gotten over that. Now it's your turn.
basically, 2 furs went on the tyra banks show claiming to represent the entire fandom, not exactly doing a good job of it, and thus pissing off half of FA. trolling and hate ensued, causing FA and its forum to go down, not once... but twice... Admins got frustrated, did an oopsie, corrected it, and are apologising after the fact.
:D youtube has the vid of the show if you type in tyra banks furry. make your own opinion of the show :)
The former means we are in super-babysitting mode.
The latter means the software sucks. Surprise. What are the plans to fix this?
I'm not particularly comfortable with this either way, particularly deleting someone else's journal and the hundreds of associated comments. And threatening bans for shouts, yet again, instead of just preventing shouting to a banned user? These could both be fixed in less than an afternoon. What is everyone doing?
That was a funny clip, but I don't see why everyone got so upset. Your sexual tastes all look stupid to other people, doesn't matter if you try to make it look good. You aren't going to do it.
People in the crowd where mumbling and doing the oooooo for group sex night too. And that has been around for AGES.
Then Chewfox could have interrupted and said, "Hey, that's great for you and all, but in the Furry Fandom, we have furry infantalists whose fursuits have diapers on them."
Such a wasted opportunity.
I'm far more concerned that yet another incident was resolved with the kneejerk populist reaction.
Vomit has its special plans you know.
:|
You're, among other things, the human representative for the almighty ToS. You're supposed to be responsible and objective. For god's sake, this isn't some personal forum with a handful of friends, it's a full-blown thousand-user internet destination. I can understand mods, but if dA's admins pulled shit like this...
I get that you can't be expected to be able to control the actions of users outside of this site, even if they effect the goings-ons here, but when they do start to effect FA, dropping the banhammer because of personal feelings on the issue exactly the opposite of professional. Blocking access to her page, along with a personal email explaining the TECHNICAL (not personal) reasons why, would have been the way to go. This'll probably happen again in the future. I hope you respond better next time.
and he is exactly that. he made a human error. he was frustrated at not only the actions of a person, but at the site crashing multiple times. Wouldn't you be a tad pissy? Granted, he could've taken a time out on himself and cooled off before acting, but with the site going down multiple times, he hadn't the time to cool off before acting. Clearly, now, he regrets it. Everyone makes mistakes like that at some point in their lives.
chill.
So really, its not that hard to avoid even owners of sites, if you just stick to the rules, do your own thing, and such :D
Most act like Furries making an ass of themselves is a new thing. Seriously, they do it all the time. Well, these particular two managed to do it on national television which was a supreme screw up, but still, old news.
The fandom will always been in a negative light to the 'normal' people. No reason to go extremist-troll on these two when there are allot more people to blame for our reputation. And most definitely not to such an extend that the site blows up. Shame on you, trolls!
nice work Neer, shutting down FA temporarily was good to finish the un-intentional DoS was a good idea (and Tyra Banks gif was hilarous XD)
it must be a tough work to deal with drama-based DoS attacks and drama in general
Your burdens are the biggest there with being the site admin and all. We all screw up, but you and the rest of those behind the scenes are the bigger pieces of glue that keep FA together. It's natural to make mistakes, can only learn from them and move on.
The last thing that needs to be seen is the community killing themselves over who is right or wrong because in the end everyone just wants the same thing of acceptance anyway and to go about with what they feel is right.
any Tyra Banks viewer that honestly believes those two people represent hundreds of thousands of individuals all over the world, well, they're not the kind of people whose opinions should be regarded ANYWAY. anyone amused by that brand of day-time entertainment has the IQ of soup.
If that is how that couple does their thing, then so be it. Furry means something different for every one individual so why are we trying to put some kind of fucking Mickey Mouse house hold label on the title of being a "FURRY" ?
you can't behave as though there are right and wrong ways to represent such an enigmatic and broad fandom. Just because of what it means to someone else doesn't represent what it means for you. With your authority here, you really shouldn't be so fucking insecure that you can't even SEE that.
just accept that noone can control what ANYONE ends up thinking about 'furries' in the end, because we're just a bunch of individuals under a collective title making our own impressions on people around the world whether its through TV or face-to-face. We have no fucking spokes person. i for one, still to this day, do NOT give a rats ass, not even a HOT one, about what people think of me because of a title. That's like two emo kids going on the Tyra Banks show to represent all emo kids. It;s ridiculous, grow up and quit over reacting so much.
All you people who are saying that we should just let this blow over and forgive / forget? I hope to hell you never decide to go fursuiting in public areas, or for a charity. There's already been a few fursuit-centric charity organizations who have lost contracts / gigs over this debacle, and it certainly won't help things any.
Once again, if we can't take a stand on what is / isn't acceptable behavior, then we deserve it when the next self-centered furry gets up on stage and dances for nickles, all at our expense. God help us if they find the cubporn / babyfur communities, and we get lumped in with pedophilia.
Why am I one of the people who think she should be outcasted and banned? Because I have a few friends who occasionally fursuit in random public locations, to bring a little bit of comedy / cheer / oddness to folks' daily lives. Whereas before, it was seen as good harmless fun, things like this will only ruin it for the rest of us. Personally, I'd rather not have one person screw this up, even in the slightest, for the rest of us. And worse, I'd rather not see them get away with it as if THEY were the victim, when they were very clearly proud of what they did.
I just see a lot more pain in your posts and I am sorry for that and I know where you are trying to go for it, so even though this discussion is heated its good for everyone to let off steam so they can come together again.
>>we find cartoon animals guys and chicks sexy!
>>we
The particle I think you're looking for is "I" sir, because I don't find cartoon animals sexy, I find them a fun hobby, so clearly you do no represent the rest of us.
More like jump to.
I really don't care what fetish porn you get up to, I can accept that most users draw porn here but it doesn't make non-porn artists any less present.
but there's no denying that a good 80% of the community loves their porn, and it doesn't make them any less respectable than the people who DON'T look at the porn. that's all i'm trying to say. i'm sick of furries who act like victims of the perverts, get over yourself, if you're so damn worried about it march in the streets. who gives a shit what viewers of the Tyra Banks show think ANYWAY
It's not just Tyra Banks viewers who are going to see this.
I'm glad she's getting chewed out for this.
She could have and /should/ have mentioned that her interests are /NOT/ that of the general fandom. She should have also corrected that tyra person when she made comments such as "furries have sex in fursuit" and asking if they'd get horny from Disneyland. She didn't stand up for the clean furs out there, and that was a big misstep on her part.
It's too late now, however, to complain about what happened, so shouldn't everyone here be trying to figure out how to go about correcting the issue, or maybe try to make a general consensus about how to act about media, so that no one fur can do this again?
Regardless of how maturely it was handled I'm glad that it was. For you to step out and publicly apologize to the community for your actions says a great deal about the integrity of the administration and the community itself, showing even figureheads can find themselves reacting in such a way. I'd like to thank you for that, it should at least turn some heads.
All that's left to do now, instead of continuing to fuel the emotions, is to take away what we can and just continue to press forward, right? It's certainly better than brooding on the topic.
Chewfox is an idiot if she thought this was going to do the "general" fandom any good, but at the same time the fandom is known for making themselves look bad. I can't wait to see the shitstorm that happens when a cub or some other "hardcore" fetish individual is made public and connected with furries.
I signed up for the regular furry shit, not this stupidity. I'm going to have to convince people I know once again that I'm not into fursuiting and murry purry all over again.
Unless you fall into this category, there really isn't a reason to mix up your "internet hobby" with something like your employment in the first place.
Seriously, stop and THINK before you type. Every single one of you are ambassadors for the community, and none of your are "duly appointed" for the job. How about we let the matter drop, and move on to something just a TAD more important than some bitch with a microphone and a talk show.
raise your hand if you were able to identify the furry couple immediately XD
There is PRIDE but there a line thats not meant to be crossed. all im gonna say.
Agreed. Now I know fucking in fursuits probably is weird but the other two... were they really that bad to have a whole show about them? Like people have only had sex with one person or something. Hell even including the furs the whole thing is just weird. It just goes to show how people still view sex in a funny and taboo way.
I'm more surprised that they didnt invite a bdsm kink person to explain about some of that, because even the second husband (which is illegal in the usa, as far as i know) and the orgies are pretty vanilla compared to the bdsm.
...some furries just do it wrong... very wrong... :(
In other words, RELAX people. It'll blow over, like every other time a bright light has been shined into your closets.
So not only did she upset the community, but will most likely lose her job. I really hope the Tyra paid them a lot. As it is hard to get a job in this state.
Xan Steel
But i shall say this: Tyra banks thinking furries are wierder and more wrong than orgies? That is wierd.
Also tyra banks has always been a mean B**** She has her own criminal sheet >.<
Why did it have to big notice about being blocked/removed for "bringing shame upon the fandom for personal gain?"
That "whatever happens outside FA stays outside FA" maxim applies in terms of /your/ actions and reactions, too.
(It might not be possible to apply 100%, 100% of the time, but it's still a good goal to aim towards and does help reduce the need for "damage limitation" exercises).
Regards,
David/uncia
Don't apologize, she's dragged the darkest areas of this already spat upon fandom out into the open and now anyone and everyone who watches that show is going to be like "Furries? You mean them people who dress up like animals and fuck?"
If I'd done something as absurdly stupid I'd expect nothing less than to be looked down upon by all my peers, quickly and efficiently dropped by all my friends and would be shocked if I wasn't strung up and left to die by the 10 closest furries.
It was nasty when CSI did it, but that was just fiction, Vanity Fair was a biased report which no-one took part in expecting to be shamed as such but this... this was with full consent and knowledge of what this could and would do to the public image of the fandom. And they went through with it.
All in all, 'Neer, you're not in the wrong.
How many people /actually/ watch that show? it can't be a terribly large number of people, as alot of adults are at work at that time of day... the real repercussion of the event will be when youtube and the rest of the internet slowly catch onto the vid and /then/ get their opinions. I say the fandom has a chance to protect the furry name yet. If there was a way to show that the fandom isnt like depicted in that show.
FOR EXAMPLE! A guy on youtube who likes to have fun in his suit by playing piano :D and pretty darn well, too, considering the paws! :D
Why not just make more positive evidence than negative?
Yeah, she tell that about Furries and is just her sight point, that's good. The real messy bad thing is express herself on a sensationalist show as the Tyra show. Discovering some furries hate to the death the sensationalism about furry fandom, we have a misunderstanding drama.
Geez, some people arond here act like an asshole sometimes ¬¬
It seems like a ton of problems could have been solved if anytime a user is banned, their page goes into read-only mode and no one else can post to it vs the hell that happened last night.
shouldnt banned also mean locked??
Wow.
Just wow.
CF was on some show and "made us look bad" by stating her opinion and what being a furry is about, so allot of FA went to CF's page and flamed her like a bunch of /b/tards/whiny little bitches which made us look even worse
did i get the story right or am i missing something here?
~QTB
[p.s. send her my hugs, but she shouldn't have done that]
~QTB
This is why I have not had cable since the year 2000...
my two cents worth, it's your site. Yours, Dragoneer. we just get to play here and by you beer with the donation... I mean, we get to support the site and keep you gainfully in beer.
er. yeah. you know what I meant.
I was wondering why the site was down, and this answered it.
Considering how you run the largest furry site out there, telling one of it's members to "Get out of my fandom" and Tweeting about how much you hate her and all.
Because of her stupidity and greedy actions, she not only made the entire fandom look bad (yet again), setting us back 4 years and putting us into the public's negative eye.. but she *also* has caused fursuiters quite a bit of pains as well.
Because of her, I know of several fursuit charity organizations who have lost gigs due to overbearing parents who saw this show. And we're going to apologize for banning her, when she's VERY clearly proud of what she's done? FFS, it's no wonder the fandom has gotten full of these types over the years. We incapable of discriminating to the very people who stab us in the back.
Even if she doesn't stay banned (which she absolutely should, considering she's caused more grief to this community than anybody else has in the last few years), it won't matter. This isn't over, and she's just going to get trolled and outcast at any conventions she attends (as well as online). And you know what? She'll deserve every minute of it. You'd rather we coddle her, say it's all better, and no hard feelings? Really, what's accomplished by that?
Don't cuddle Chewfox. Hate her for all I care. But it's sad so many people are acting -that- upset over this. Are all you people telling everyone you know about how you're a furry? Are you going to be discriminated against because of the two perverts on the Tyra Banks' show? The fandom is a fucked up community, and it wouldn't take much research effort to find just how bad it is, if anyone was every remotely curious on just how sick it can get. :|
How nice of you. Over some stupid little furry drama? I think you need to re-read my comment there. I can care less what the public thinks about furry, since I'm not thrusting my private online life in other people's faces.
And besides, it's not like "furry" is already some well received community in -anyones- eyes -anyhow-.
Gotcha.
I must say however, that much respect goes to 'Neer for this post
Sure, he did the wrong thing, but he had the balls to stand up in front of everyone, knowing what sort of heat to expect... sucked it in, and made an apology.~!
That deserves respect!
Now... chew fox? tom cat? Daaaamn.
Look, I have received, over the past 8 weeks, lots of emails and messages on facebook from young furs all over the US that Im friends with. They all got hit with the email from Brooke Townsend, Tyra's director thing.
They were all rearing to go... yea, we will portray the fandom in a positive light. we will set them straight.
Now, I have had dealings with the media here in Australia, being the chairman of Australias premier furry convention... And knowing what the media are like, advised these young furs against going on the show.
THANKFULLY the listened to me.
Now, these furs are all apart of the lynch mob...
Bit hypocritical if you ask me.
So many furs think they know how to handle the media.. but when your talking about huge corporations, with air tight contracts, money and lawyers behind them... its very easy to be misled into signing a deal to go on tv, and then pull out after you realise you were lied to...
Let this be a lesson to ALL FURRIES now... cos I for one am sick of coming across furs who think they could "do a better job".
Unless you have had some decent training in dealing with the media, as a publicist etc... SHUT THE HELL UP! Dont say anything.
Step down. Pass the baton to someone else. You've banned others for less.
It ain't anything personal against Dragoneer; it's just unfortunate things like this have to happen at all. I suppose it's just a bit frustrating because this isn't the first time Dragoneer's done some really strange things that's left people scratching their heads. The flames of war that he fanned between The Furry Pound and the CC2 Steam communities come to mind off the top of my head. The scars of his involvement still exist with animosity still existing between members of the two groups.
I can't judge Dragoneer as a person; I don't know him anywhere enough to say anything about his character. The most experience I've had with him was a brief exchange of words on a website called Kotaku. However as one of the volunteer head moderators of a PC MMO, if I were to let myself fly into a blind rage like this it would definitely make me question my position. Part of my job there is to provide players with a safe playing environment where they don't need to put up harassment or deliberate attempts of humiliation by other members. If I became the person doing the harassing and humiliating, who could protect them apart from the actual game administrators stepping in?
I agree with what you say a little further below; being in a position of power doesn't mean you have to be absolutely flawless. You can get pissed, you can be immature. But you don't act on it. If you lash out in a way that's against the rules and don't hold yourself accountable to those rules, you're setting a precedence that such behavior is acceptable. Users publicly humiliating other users in journals and comments becoming permissible would be a bad idea.
This is something Dragoneer himself needs to think very carefully about. He either needs to find a better way to deal with these tantrums that flare up or he needs to begin thinking about backing off and transferring ownership to someone a bit less likely to go postal. If he does neither he's only ensuring something like this will repeat itself. Whatever he decides is completely up to him.
Lastly, it's daytime talk TV people. Entertainment. The people who go onto shows like Maurey and Tira intend to look good and mean well. But that's boring; it's more fun to have hosts asked warped questions that come in at an angle to try to make guests look like wackjobs. Watch for yourself and see how the hosts drive conversations. I'm not trying to take sides here, but this point should really be considered.
Personally, I'll take the occasional crazy outburst over total incompetence or blatant disruptive corruption, but I won't pretend it's any more than my own personal assessment.
I don't even want to know what happened. All I know is that a million dramafags got butthurt that someone said first.
I wash my hands of this weirdness.
I'm not a sycophant or one of your biggest fans, but I'm not delusional and somehow think that being in charge of a website means you're magically now some sorta golden god that doesn't make mistakes or possess emotions.
You got crazy mad, and you said a bunch of crap you didn't mean to. Then you came back and apologized. Seems pretty par for the course in this kind of incident. There are better ways to rationalize one's thoughts on the subject, but hey. Nobody's perfect.
And though you'll be alternatingly defended and reviled by those who aren't fond of thinking of you as a person, I'm gonna go ahead and say it:
You said you're sorry. Fair dinkum. Tomorrow's another day.
It's only a short period of time since that /very/ poor handling on the topic of bestiality, throwing previous admin statements/positions out of the window, etc.; all of which was then immediately treated as "if I don't say anything more about this, the problem is resolved and will go away" despite not enacting a proper /resolution/ and doing /nothing/ to deal in any way with other illegal activities being promoted on the site.
No; that was more the "stuff words into my mouth" game? ;)
Yes; you are being "exceedingly moderate" but for how many years is "You said you're sorry. Fair dinkum" the best reply?
> I'm just saying this is a little bit better than last time. You want people to improve, you have to encourage growth in them. That's the way people work.
That doesn't work with everyone by a long shot, especially when there is disproportionate power (think big company CEO vs. shop-floor worker).
Agreed; this might've been a fraction better handled than some of the previous cases, but it's also far worse than many of the others and, to be honest, should not have happened in the first instance. Nor is there any indication of being seen to be willing to seek support to help make things better - the remainder of the administration is almost invariably "absent" and there is never any /genuine/ attempt to help share the burden of responsibility, or to improve the checks-and-balances to reduce the frequency or impact of /personal/ knee-jerk reactions.
02c/ymmv as ever, anyhow... :)
Back to the subject, let's say I concede that my entire approach is inappropriate.
How well has naked criticism and/or blind sycophancy been working all this time? And if you agree that they don't seem to have produced any results either, I bid you the opportunity a third time: What is your resolution?
> the remainder of the administration is almost invariably "absent" and there is never any /genuine/ attempt to help share the burden of responsibility, or to improve the checks-and-balances to reduce the frequency or impact of /personal/ knee-jerk reactions.
(That's a good start, there, but it requires Dragoneer to take the initiative and move outwith his comfort zone to actually /empower/ other individuals within the management and /trust/ those who are capable of exerting an active, experienced and steadying influence without taking any frustrations as a sign of dislike against him personally. This is old, old, old and the inevitable conclusion for lack of evidence to the contrary is that he's "not interested", by-and-large).
> How well has naked criticism and/or blind sycophancy been working all this time?
*nods*. Not helpful, but understandable and still need to be addressed, too.
Neither have constructive efforts "solved the problem" - although they have helped reduce/make things better, in the past - since those still require the recipient to listen and learn. Which Dragoneer /does/ do, more often than not: one cannot, however, solve the after-effects of "knee-jerk reaction" problems by saying "apology accepted" /every/ time. Somewhere along the line the change has to come from within.
aside: This ain't an armchair general response, btw, since I'm familiar with the private situation as well as the public response: I did bankroll FA off the ground in the first place, invite Dragoneer over here (although he apparently thought the site was a joke and didn't stay first time... no problem ;) , and put in several thousand dollars and hours of my time to help get it through the "teething" stage.
Cheers & Best wishes. :)
(off-to-work now; apols in advance for any delayed response)
*troll troll troll*
god i love the drama lama in the morning i was wondering why the site was down for a while...
DON'T FORGET
MY INTERNET
"Having sex in fursuit is repulsive"
That is the stigma Im getting reading as many post as possible, most randomly, and I come across this line or a statement pretty damn close to it a lot throughout.
Now I say, as a generally new fur to the fandom. Ive only been around about 9 months.
Babyfur/cubfur /porn/ is repulsive in my opinion but if thats what your into, so be it.
Vore, its not my thing, but whatever floats their boat.
Scat, same as Vore in my opinion, not my thing.
General furry porn, I enjoy sometimes. (I better not get any hypocrites on this one)
Having sex in suit? I see this along the lines of, what we call "normal" people doing RP sex for fun in some sort of costume. 2 people dressing up, in our case as their fursonas mostly, and mating with their partner in real life RP style because we really cant be our fursonas. Its just not possible, as much as we wish it to be true.
Make believe and sex isnt a new thing.
I understand this is a bad thing to be put out in the general public in order to safeguard those of us that go out to charity gigs and whatnot.
My problem is, what gives any of you hypocrites the right to tell fellow furs, /now/ that partake in fursuit sex, that they are repulsive for doing it in the privacy of their own homes?
I know of people, that have 2 full suits, one for the privacy of their homes, and one for public/Con use.
These same people, great people, are now being shit on as a whole by the very community they turned to in the first place because of its overall public facade of "understanding and equality for all".
This sickens me. I was once proud to call myself a Furry and a majority of my "fellow" furs here are making me rethink this for /their/ sake.
One side says that she answered to a question that made it seem like all furs do it and that she didnt stop tyra from bashing the fandom as a whole.
The other side states that Chewfox tried to explain but tyra kept twisting her words around.
I feel Chewfox should not have done this in the first place. However there could be extenuating circumstances, as in a forced contract after paying to get them to NY and refusing to send them back if they didnt cooperate. (I have been forced into a contract like this myself, however its unrealated to the fandom or television) Or even that maybe she was lied to from the start, maybe both.
Of course only Chewfox knows exactly what happened and if there was a forced contract, Im willing to bet it acts as a gag order as well.
As for sex in suit. Its your choice. If you do, you shouldnt care what anyone thinks about you. My problem is fellow furs condemning it, right next to babyfur porn, That sickens me and them and me, we they are now discussing if we should leave the fandom.
AMEN, brutha.
...and the fandom learns nothing. People are way too self-conscience and insecure.
Chewfox is now going to have to live with the fact that she has possibly labelled all furs with the same tag. We all know that is not true, but now it is how we will be seen. Also she has riled alot of users here, but constant finger pointing will not do anything good. She has learned her lesson, so lets leave things be. Whats done is done.
I understand neer :)
This reflects what happened with multi-user accounts in general in the past where, for example, one admin encouraged other staff to crack down on /all/ of those despite failing to sanity check that that would mean banning Blotch also. :)
Fact of the matter is that any attempt to create groups using the existing site mechanics to provide a proxy for "group" functionality was always going to fall far shy of what it could/should be. However, having let the situation "slip" for many months and not cracking down on pseudo-groups, I'm sure it could be argued that any attempts at the very least have helped to define a demand for that functionality and provide a tool whereby subcommunities have been defined and could be migrated across more readily, rather than having to "start from scratch" again.
FA works on a "years" timeframe for such developments so it could be easily argued that any pre-emptive work to help define community needs is not a "bad thing", rather than having a "solution" out of the blue at a future date which might fall far short of those and rattles cages needless by creating a one-off scramble for turf instead of building upon organic growth.
02c thoughts/ymmv, only, anyhow. :)
If you want groups, then demand better software.
The software doesn't provide the facility for usergroups. The "usergroups" people are making are just regular accounts.
We'll see where this all goes
Eh. You're human. ... Dragon. Whatever.
Well, I'd think she's got bigger problems to worry about then a few trolls.
Also, to the Dragoneer person? I don't think you were in the wrong doing the banning thing, in my opinion. Bushes need to have errant twigs pruned or folded back for the good of the garden.
Or were you happy with just one ban?
Pray, define what makes an "errant twig" and whose vision of "the garden" you're using... :)
BULLFUCKINGHORSESHIT
I like to Document the history of the furry fandom
Even the rough sides