As I'm listening to this I notice you're very concise and well-spoken - a voice I'd expect to hear on professional (or semi-professional) podcasting or radio in general. You actually remind me of people who did podcast show I used to love called Geek by Night. :3

(I was also amused by the use of 'adjectivenoun' as a poke at names like 'GoldenWolf' or 'GreyHusky', whether intentional or not.)

In addition, why not a simple, 'Well, that's all I have for now. Catch you later!' Straight to the point. :3 Overall you bring up a lot of points many artists (and good commissioners) have been trying to bring up for a long time, and in a friendly, concise manner. I think people tend to take something more to heart when they can hear it, rather than reading someone's comment. There's no mistaking tone or inflection, really, so it's easier to understand the point that's trying to be made. I like these audio journals!

Thanks. I called into a local radio station once and was told that I had a very sexy voice. :P Personally I think it's kinda nasally and nerdy, so I suppose Geek by Night is somewhat appropriate. I try to be as concise as possible, and typically have to remind people when I send them notes that my intention is as such, though given my honest statements I apparently come off as a bit of a jerk (despite my best effrots).

Yes, AdjectiveNoun was intentional. :3

Of course I thought of a good catchphrase after I exported the file: - But that's just my opinion. :P I think I still need to concentrate a bit more on my inflection and punctuation timing, but I'm glad you liked it.

Nah, you're not nasally or nerdy - the guys who did the podcast weren't, either! I'd link you to it if you were interested, though they had to stop the show after 10 episodes... Depressing, really. And yeah, I'd agree with sexy, despite my preference being women. I can still tell a sexy voice when I hear one! I felt it'd be kind of rude for me to say as such, though. xD

Oh really? What catchphrase was that?

I'll take "sexy" as a compliment, especially from someone who prefers the ladies. :]

Catchphrase: "But that's just my opinion."

Oh, well good! :3

Heh, reminds me of Dennis Miller. His bit was to end his rants with, "but that's just my opinion; I could be wrong." Not many people like him lately, though; apparently he was more of a 90's comedian.

Yeah, I kinda' figured that one would be taken. :P Ah well. I'll think of something...

This was a fantastic journal and a great dissection of the issue(s). I agree with you on a lot of these points, and you brought up some interpretations of the situations that I hadn't thought of before. I hope you do more of these!

I looooove to dissect issues. I find breaking complex things down into their core components makes digestion of a larger issue much more palatable. ... Now I'm hungry.

lol that made me hungry too. DX

You remind me of the guy who did the intro to Ministry's "Jesus Built My Hotrod"

I'm guessing because I'm kinda tired and not really straining my voice at any given point. I wish my voice was that sexy! :D

Good pronunciation, smooth voice with natual inflections...in a word professional. I enjoyed both the topic and the conclusion to your side, it was stated in concise and forward manner, wouldn't call it a rant; but I would call it enjoyable. One thing I would like to point out as something to watch out for is formulaic composition; this is your first post and you may be aware of this already, but many people fall into routines in the way the write/talk about topics. In a sense becoming like cold news casters, causing readers/listeners to become disconnected from you.

One major point in your favor is length, this journal is of appropriate length for the topic. Not once did I feel like it was rushed or stretched, I would like to know if you wrote up the entire journal first or just used notes; also how much editing you did to the draft/notes before recording, as well as how many takes. Thanks and I look forward to your next post.

Wow, thanks for the feedback! Yeah, after listening to it a few times I noticed that I had a tendency to fall into a pattern (albeit, a long one). I intentionally tried to avoid making it sound like a rant; that niche is sort of already taken. I was more going for topic dissection and analysis, which I love to do (I was a sociology student in post secondary).

To answer your question about composition and delivery, I wrote and edited the journal in it's entirety (as you hear it) before going to the mic. This was my first dissection, so I sort of rushed in the editing and there's already a few things I would have liked to add and take away now that I've listened to it a few times. There were a few takes: I typically cut between paragraphs, sometimes the takes were a bit longer if I still had breath and was on a roll.

I've done voice over work before and a few commercials for TV and radio, so I feel relatively comfortable with my own voice. Now it's just a matter of tuning. :3

Me, in my tired, tired mind almost read that as "I was a scientology student" blinked, and then read it again. But a very well put perspective on the issue. I've read the article in question, and the guy is very straight forward, very blunt, and makes no bones that he is looking out for himself more so than the well-being of artists, but then on the same token, most people are going to look out for themselves. And while his opinion is an equally valid one, he doesn't really convey it too well in terms of treading on people's toes, but that could be due to text not really having inflection.

4:44 Im a good example of it ;__;



But yea, I think the definition of "work" is someone buying your time for your skills.

Charity case? Don't feel bad (unless it's making you unhappy). <:3

Excellent And yes, I would like to hear more of these. As said above, your audio journal is very professional sounding, very smooth and very well spoken. No complaints from this little voice here. I look forward to your next one Rei

Very lucid and well paced. :)

I think ya managed to make a rather good audio rant/journal :3
Totally agree on most parts. And you managed to keep it rather interesting.

I've noticed that quite many people that want art, but refuse to pay for it (or give something back, aka: trade) is people which would not even mow their grandmothers lawn unless paid, so why the murloc do they think someone would just spend around equal time drawing them a picture?

Personally I've seen artists which have (imo) become rather arrogant and possibly greedy or sumit. I once saw an artist that charged 40 $ for a like... 30 second doodle, 100 $ for a sketch, and 200 $ for a colored picture, and around 70 % of the price was just "brand payment".
Now, I just generally dislike brands, since they're kind of a mark that "this is just the same freaking product as that one, but of possible lower quality, but hey! we have a brand that says you wasted money, so people know you're a snob!"

Imo, I like to look at art like... art..
Now like some way of determining who hired the most expensive artist, at some few places I've seen that "Oh? You only have a Bob's? Well, I just bought a new Steve's" discussion. But, I guess I shouldn't poke to much into that, if people like to do that, it's something I have no power over.
But it does empower the feeling that other artists are worth less. Since it makes some of them feel, how to put it: Like some nameless shoe company next to Nike... and/or whatever that brand with the crocodile/alligator is named.
I might be completely wrong thou, but I'm used to that hehe :P

I didn't really touch on the "snob" issue as it sort of relates more to attitude (on both sides of the issue), rather than self-worth. I probably wouldn't do a dissection of that issue, given that it's less about money issues and more about representation. All I really can say about it is that while, yes, there are snobbish artists, there's also snobs that don't draw at all - furs just don't really notice/care/get up in the face of non-artist snobs.

Yeah true. There's not really much that can be done on that issue heh :P
But imo, whiners in both parts should just really either do like you say and discuss the price, or find another artist/buyer.
If you complain over expensivce prices, pick a cheaper artist, if you complain that no-one wants you but your 200 $ commissions, maybe lower your prices, or find people with more money to waste :3

The problem is that there _are_ buyers who are willing to pay $200 for a color commission... in fields other than furry art.

When you do the math on how much the average furry artist is making per hour of labor for a $100 color commission (which many furries still consider expensive), the artist is making pretty close to minimum wage for highly skilled labor. At $200, it's a little more reasonable.

Furries in general aren't willing to pay reasonable prices for furry artwork. So we actually lose a lot of skilled artists that way. They are forced to move outside of furry in order to sustain themselves.

That's true, but pretty many of the artists enjoy drawing, and compared to sucking clown dick on McDonalds, it's something that at least I'd choose over that :P
And the payment varies from artist to artist to artists, some are very fast with drawing, whilst others take their time.

But I know what you mean, for artist that solely rely on their art to survive get rather "under payed" by doing so.

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before but IIRC it didn't end up coming to a real conclusion, some other topic probably came up. You mention people who charge too little, I recall a few people making noise some time ago about establishing an artists coalition and getting as many artists on board to establish a sort of standardized pricing for artists of similar talent. The idea behind this being that if Guymandude does art for $20 that undermines the whole market for other artists to charge more. What is your take on this?

Creating a coalition of furries is like herding cats; difficult and unlikely to stick at best (IMHO). If such a thing were to occur, every artist on FA (at least) would have to be within this bubble in order for it to work. I can't really say what the results would do to the echelons within, we're talking about a paradigm shift in regards to artist access, not to mention the resultant price shifting. I call it a bubble if only for the fact that without complete participation, the bubble would dissolve. The theory is extremely unstable, and without a lot more thought on such a theory, I can't really produce a stance on it. My best guess is that it would be terrible: artists would be the one's bidding on commission descriptions, and prices would plummet. The summit artists would probably remain as such (off and far away, still getting commissions) and I would guess we'd see and influx of crappy, fetishy artwork. This is all based on what I've seen in the online design community where similar strategies are employed by lazy firms just looking to get their design work cheap - which is exactly what they get. Also, with the buyer as the auctioneer, you have less control over the style of your commission. Gah! I'm just throwing hypothetical tangents out here now.

Maybe it's because I'm unwilling to do the work myself, or maybe it's the nature of the fandom, but I feel like something like this would be pretty hard to organize. A more important solution is to educate the individuals you come across as much as you can. It's not perfect, but here's an excellent resource to start with: http://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Artis.....893&sr=8-1

Hey Kaput. Yeah, that's the thing. We're sort of treading the line between design and artwork here. It's thicker than many think, so these sorts of topics come up from time to time, and are hard to debate/imagine in part due to the distance (and similarities) between the two.

.... Is that what we're talking about?
I'm confused.

I mean, both designers and artists have to go through this same trial by fire -- the dealing with clients who want to underpay them, the lack of acknowledgement and respect...

I unno but are audio journals allowed? All I know is that another guy that im watching put one up then had it deleated..

Well, to call it an audio journal is a bit of a misnomer (Yeah, I'm aware of what I put on the thumbnail). I'll be sure to re-upload it as a "topic dissection" later. Thanks for the heads-up.

I loved you for the artwork and that avatar ... but now I ADORE you.

^^;

Great listen! Beautiful enunciation and very easy to follow. Can't wait for more.

> ranting gryphons

Well thought out discussions/rants always win my vote, as others have said this was a thorough examination of something that you care about and something that you've chosen to inform yourself about thus eminently listenable.

While I largely agree with the thrust of your argument that artists charge to little I think that there's a clear need to understand that buyers have reasonable concerns about the 'risk' of buying art through the interwebs and the artists ability in the service department. Basically any artist that expects to be payed well should also be making sure that besides the quality of the art itself they offer a good service which delivers the art in a reasonable amount of time and preferably with the buyer being well aware of it's progress and of course the big one, actually delivers on their agreement to make art/refunds when it proves impossible.

The unfortunate part for all artists is that these factors are out there, burning some customers and further promoting the wish to get art for cheap, lest the artist go AWOL and you never see the product of your own investment of money.

While you have a point here, let's face it -- that's the risk that you take.

Getting a poor quality product, or getting it late, or getting other questionable points of service, is something that happens both in the amateur AND professional world.

In the mainstream art world, professional artists can generally charge more because they have experience under their belt and their clients can trust them to deliver based on that experience.

In the furry art world, furry artists can generally charge more because they have experience under their belt and their clients can trust them to deliver based on that experience.

See what I did there?
In this ever so closely-knit community, there are multiple ways of contacting an artist, including through their friends, and if you have a problem you can do something like post to the LJ Artists Beware community. We have ways of subverting risks that weren't available 5 or even 10 years ago and I think that's remarkable. And compared to that era, I think a lot more furry artists are understanding and acknowledging their responsibilities and following through.

These are all conversational points to help illustrate a larger picture. But all that said, there still has to be a standard for a starting point, one that an artist personally chooses based on what they feel they're worth. Just because you're starting out, doesn't mean you ought to start at 0$.

I'm certainly not trying to suggest that people start at 0$ or even reduce prices, I agree for the most part that prices should go up for many artists out there, especially if they provide reasonably quick, responsive and reliable service just that as part of increasing prices these things become less and less optional and more and more of a requirement. To underscore the point I'd be willing to pay 20-50% more for the artists who I've commissioned before and had a good experience to avoid that risk, I suppose a lot of it comes down the fact that the furry art world opens things up to a lot of new buyers who aren't familiar with the tools you mention which makes it difficult for some to recognize who's a risk and who's not.

Nicely done, mate! That was awesome!

Thanks!

Audio Journals are pretty cool. It was a interesting hear.

Now that my roommate is awake I've finally had a chance to listen to this! This was very well done, you touched on everything I would have, and I think the self esteem bit is a VERY poignant part of this to acknowledge.

I'll definitely be passing this around! Thank you!

Thanks Kaput. :3

Yes! This is one of those issues that has bugged me for years. I've often stopped trying to explain to people why my work is priced the way it is, because all I get are complaints about the cost to THEM. I even had someone tell me "Well, you're all producing original art, so you need to price match to the lowest bidder," which is utterly ridiculous, and takes none of an artist's personal factors or situations into account. We are not Walmart. If someone wants art from ME, they can pay my prices, or politely negotiate for a trade. If they want to whine about my pricing scale, they can go pester someone who doesn't know any better and rip them off instead.

What I find ironic is how many people are up in arms over the article this guy wrote on how to snag cheap artwork. I've seen a number of folks who aren't artists rally to this banner. The problem with our subculture is that while I'm sure these folks feel great about protecting their favorite little-known artists from "The Man", these are the same people who turn around and whine when an artist gets the courage to say "Hey, I'm worth something! I'm going to raise my prices to better compensate for the amount of work I'm doing". The attitude of "Yes, art should be worth something, so long as it doesn't cost ME anything personally" is one I've struggled against in fandom for ages, and the influx of uber-cheap digital art hasn't made it any better. I'm just tired of being vilified for standing by my own personal worth, and I know others are as well.

This was actually very entertaining. I hope you will do more of them.

I've actually noticed for a long time that the fact that there are so many artists severely undercharging for their work undermines the efforts of those who do try to do it for a living.

It has an effect similar to 'dumping'... an anticompetitive practice where a corporation with a lot of money in the bank intentionally sells their product for far below cost in order to drive another corporation with less money out of business. Both companies take huge losses, but the idea is that the company with less money will collapse first, thereby leaving the company with deep pockets with a monopoly.

In this case, of course, there are no bad intentions or immoral actions on the part of the artists who are severely undercharging. But the effect is similar. They're essentially hanging themselves (or simply don't need the money), and it undermines the whole supply/demand thing for anyone seriously trying to make a living from it.

The upshot of this from a furry fan's point of view is that the best artists leave furry or never enter it in the first place because furry art as an industry is so undermined this way. In my time, I've seen quite a few top quality artists leave furry fandom because they just can't support themselves here. And most people aren't really aware of these exoduses because the artists are quiet about it. It's not the 'I'm leaving furry!' emo crap. When people really leave, they do so without a fuss.

A few comments up, someone is complaining about an artist who is 'snobby' for 'overcharging' at $200 for a full color commission. In furry artwork, that's considered expensive. But most anywhere besides furry fandom, that's a cheap price for a custom full color piece. The pay scale in 'real artwork' outside of furry is very different.

In the end, this means that the only strong artists who stay are staying because they want to do furry art specifically _despite_ the low compensation. They could be making significantly more money and living better doing other art besides furry.

The only solution to this state of affairs I can think of is promoting a general awareness within the furry art community that many artists are charging far too little for their work. And this actually harms furry artists as a whole.

To that end, I tend to think it's a good thing for furry that this guy put up that "how to hire artists who don't know what they're worth" thing. Because it's shocking the community into noticing a state of affairs which has actually been the case for many years.

While there are many artists that don't charge enough for their work, the majority of them are new to the game. There are a few bigger names out there that charge significantly less, though they're so few that the impact to fair-pricers is barely notable. Not to mention that if they're summit artists, they're overloaded with work anyways. The ones I'm talking about are the ones that undercharge because they don't think that they're worth it.

To compare the furry artwork trade to corporate business is like comparing apples to oranges; yeah, they're both pretty fruity, but not really all that similar. I didn't touch on the undermining topic because it's a dissection all in of itself - one that I still need to do my homework on before I tear apart. You're making some very strong assumptions in regards to the flow of money and artwork and how it supposedly effects the prices and lives of artists. Also, the whole making a living off of furry art is another dissection I'll be doing, once I've checked my facts. You mention that you've seen some summit artists leave because they were undermined, who? Did they specifically say that they were leaving because of undermining? If they did so without a fuss, how would you know? Can I get their contact info, so I can interview them? I'd love to hear it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

I agree with you on the fact that if you're a mature furry artist (let's say 10+ years in the fandom), you're doing it for the art, and less for the payout - even if you're charging more than minimum wage. As a freelance videographer, I make between $50-$100 dollars an hour. As a furry artist I make between $5-$15. Does this mean that I should bump my prices up to match? Well, that would mean that my $5 dollar sketches would now be worth $50, and my full color images would cost $560. While yeah, I'm well within my right to do so, my videographer time worth, and my furry artist time worth, are separate. Hence why I let supply and demand dictate my prices. I don't have to think about it, or deal with it aside from the occasional adjustment.

Guh... I'll talk more about this when I get to the audio dissection of it. I'll just say that I disagree with some of your argument.

Thanks for being polite and friendly, even if we don't agree on everything. :)

My comments are based on long experience and a lot of connections within furry. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who's more of a dinosaur than me beings as I was there when furry got started. And I've got a long history with the business side of things as a dealer and such.

I can name at least a couple of what you are calling 'summit' artists that have left right off the top of my head. And another one who's still around, but has worked in other parts of the art industry and has similar comments that you can't make money here. The scale of what people are willing to pay for furry art is completely different than it is for other kinds of art.

However, I don't think it would actually be appropriate for me to give you any of their names. So I can't answer that part. Did they say this is why they left? Yes. They took their art talents elsewhere because they'd like to be paid something reasonable for their skills. How would I know if they left without a fuss? Because I knew them. I'm friends with quite a few of the top artists in the fandom. I've been around a long time.

Now consider this... if you're thinking... well, if really good artists just up and vanished, the fandom would _notice_ right? How could they not?! Well, they don't just vanish. They just kind of start being around and posting less and less... falling more and more inactive until they're completely gone. Their stuff may even be left up somewhere.

How many artists can you think of that you haven't seen a single piece of artwork from them in a very long time?

It's not a small list, if you start thinking about it. Especially if you've been in the fandom a long time.

Did they all stop for this same reason? No. But some portion of them did. Or it will have at least been a factor.

Now, I really don't mean to be talking in absolutes here. It is possible to make a living doing furry art. But... it's made much more difficult by the factors I've discussed. It is influences and trends. If furry artists were paid better in general, there would be more and greater of them. The less well they are paid, the more it leaves it to just the die hards. The more artists will either leave or never be a part of it in the first place.

To be sure, it's not like furry art has ever been more lucrative. You mention that comparing it to corporate business is unreasonable. But I would say that... from my dinosaur point of view... furry art actually has been expanding and maturing into something that looks more and more like a real industry over the years. And I'm hoping that trend will continue and barriers to it being more healthy will be eliminated. Because I'm of the opinion that furry artists aught to be able to make a decent living from their work (not just scrape by) and aught to be paid more than hamburger flippers for their talents.

I think we do agree about that. :) And it's cool if you don't agree with everything I've commented here. There's a lot of different takes on how things work in furry.

Whether I agree or disagree with your position has no bearing on my sentiments. Debate is debate. Without differing opinions, there would be no reason to talk, and then everyone would be left with nothing to do but fuck. ... Wait, this idea has merit.

Heh heh. :) Indeed it does!

hermaphrodidic-gerbil-taur, not as informative as informative as formerly advertised...i don't usually enjoy these rants, but this was worth a listen. while i don't have the time to invest in doing art for money, i have to say it strikes me much like getting pad to do programming i do, you should work for free, or full price, never cheap...

^_^ haha my prices haven't changed much in four years despite me getting better at my art in leaps and bounds, but as it stands I get very few commissions (relatively, i never get 5 out of a 10 slot run XD) but I'm in a situation where the money I make only goes to fuel arty type projects i.e. towards new tablet or materials for a project. I love trades, no matter what the skill level of the other artist, because I believe in supporting everyone else and encouraging them to keep getting better (same can be said for "famous artists" like max black rabbit and such, we are always learning new things and I've noticed even they are bettering their art.) I also do a fair amount of "charity" doodles i.e. character images for those who don't draw or a doodle to cheer somebody up. but yeah I'd say I'm pretty cheap for my skill level, though I focus on customer service and trying to gt it as good as I can for my commissioners (I've even been given a couple of tips for my good service XD)

I'm glad you brought up the issue of time. Even though we've heard it over and over, people always tend to forget that time is money. Time is valuable. And time is the only commodity that you won't get back. The value of time is subjective, sure, but there is definitely a certain baseline people can go off of.

The minimum wage value is a good place to start. For example, if someone takes 2 hours to make a piece of work for $10, then they are basically working for less than the minimum wage (at least in the United States). While I totally understand that this doesn't matter to some artists, as you've already stated, I do definitely think that something like this does give a little bit of perspective.... which is something that I think is lacking in almost all people, furry or not.

Well, I often do free art in stream for those new to it and even when I ask for some suggestions.

Yeah... that's all I wanted to say... ^^; But I have been thinking about my prices and what they should be.

The impression i have got from this fandom is this:
They dont want qualaty they want a image draw in a well known or establisehd artists style, that way one can charge more, as yes it gos back to suply and demand for none want any original or refreshing they want same old thing, and only if you are disturbingly popular can you pretty much trow any price you want they will pay you anyway, even if the said arist cant draw anatomy worht saving theri sorry ass.

but if they do most ussaly find the copycat of this artist and go to them for they are cheaper.

Well said.

‘Maybe it’s just me but an image of a hermaphroditic gerbil taur isn’t terribly informative.’
I just about fell out of my chair at that point.

pity the ones that need to hear this a, don't give a fuck. B will still continue to carry on in the same fashion. C See number one.

I used to whore myself out for art, but often fer years and years I submitted tons of free art to web/bbs sites fanzines back in the day when Zeroxes was the big new tech. and snail mail. The getting r free art out of artist from game companies that always been like that even by the big ones like Lucas arts, Codemasters Atari. Back in the day Steve Jackson games FASA, the gurps publications and most spin off of D & D or vamp games they usually only pay dirt cheap for art, and in bulk with no royalties to cut the bottom line. Often your never paid and waste time with trying to get it. or they jump on the net and steal the artwork anyway and se it without permission

you sounded awesome on there. and thanks for posting this. you make alot of good points to ponder on. and your voice is easy on the ears.

Heh, thanks!

Well-spoken- It sounded like an essay in the clarity and progression of thoughts, but the vocal performance accented the delivery positively. Feel free to do more in the future.

I dont like taking shortcuts so i'll be right on point.
I think you could charge a bit more for your art.
For example, if i remember correctly i bought the Nautica papperback issue, for 7 dollars??? euroes?? anyways, i think you could charge even 15 for it, but thats just my personal oppinion, i whould still buy it even for 15 Euroes.
and there is a commission waiting for me to be done by you, and before we made a deal i expected the price to be the dubble of what you told me, so i think you are beeing a bit shy on the price, you could go higher, maybe not as much as dubble but still alot higher.

And you got a wonderfull voice, its not some strange accent that you might hear from different people all over the world, and its light on the ears, just like any regular guy speaking on the raido, you might even become a great story teller.

kiss n hugs
-Snugg

Thanks for the support. Realistically, while the prices I charge are at the whim of my commission list, I don't know if charging more for my little comic would go over so well. Yes, I should set my own prices, but I also have to try and keep those prices relatively similar to others. Also, the company that published my comic was selling the comic for $4.00, so the idea that I could charge more for a copy that's signed has it's limitations.

People keep on telling me that I'm easy on the ears. :3 I like that.

i wanna give you something to think about, are you valuing yourself or do you let others put a value on you?
you dont have to answer just think about it, if i request a picture from you, a lone picture that should be worth 200 Euroes, in your mind, what kind of picture whould that be? or do you feel that 200 Euroes is WAY tomuch for a lone picture? and how much whould you charge as most and what kind of picture whould that be?
My guess is that sooner or later you gonna run in to people that badly wants a picture that shows, whatever they want it to show, and they are ready to pay alot for it.

I see my value as a bit of both. External and internal value. To side with some, I do draw furry art because it's fun; despite the fact that my freelance video work prices are nearly ten times the cost. There's also the appeal of being an artist with reasonable prices. In the event that someone wants to pay extra for a commission (which has happened), I'm not about to tell them that they can't. If they see more value in an image beyond my asking price, they're more than welcome to tag on a bit of monetary support. I don't see furry artwork making me rich, nor do I see it paying all of the bills, though I suppose with the right marketing it very well could pay most of the bills, but I've also experienced how doing something you love for a living can corrode the enjoyment of it, which is where my price scaling comes in - If I'm getting a lot of commissions, I raise my prices to slow the flow, which has worked pretty well so far. Doing commissions also helps advertise my name, so being prolific does have it's advantages. To state that my value is due to any single factor, would be a lie; when there are many involved.

I suppose I should answer your question too, eh? 200 EU... Well, according to my prices, that could be a color image, plus detailed color background with 8 color characters in it. If what you're getting at is content related, I don't put a price tag on explicit content; either I draw the content, or I don't. I've been approached regarding stuff I won't draw, and I told them that they needed to take it to another artist willing to draw the content. Is there a point when the amount they're offering would override my ick-factor? Of course! Everyone has a price. Mine just happens to be rather steep, and no one's managed to offer me enough in said cases.

your voice is actually pretty awesome :O and the way how well you worded everything made it sound even more awesome! X3
and i agree fully with you on every level!

Sir, I applaud you.
This is well spoken, well thought out and I couldn't have said it better myself. :3

Very nice in every respect. Bravo.

As always Rei well put.

Jesus, I don't think there was a single part of your arguement that I disagree with Rei. And incredibly well put on all accounts to boot. :) Yeah about the only thing that I can't say that other people havn't already is, it's about freakin time someone came out and said everything that needed to be said on this subject. :)

So, uh..

Why don't you have you own radio station, again? Because it's apparent that you have a skill with speaking and communicating ideas verbally.

I wish I had the time really. Honestly, there's only a few topics I tend to talk about seeing how I don't tend to vocalize my thoughts unless I'm confident about them. Chicks dig confidence.

Well, perhaps you should get in the habit of doing these more often, and perhaps practice vocalizing your thoughts. It would be a shame for you to not use your obvious talent of conveying thoughts through words. :3c

also are you hitting on me

It was more of a Southpark reference than hitting on you. Should I be?

I'm.

I'm not sure. :V

Wow I just stumbled across this and it brightened my draw up a little. I like to have some of these issues tackled by someone with a brain on their shoulders.

Thanks. I'm glad you found it brightening. :3

Man this gives me a new understanding of art and pricing. Great job very thorough. I feel I need to say more but am unsure how to say it, the easiest way I can think of is Awesome!

Wow... O.O

Just going to say, and I mean no offense by this, rather, I mean this with the upmost respect, but you have the voice of a rather professional and very intelligent person. Well versed in the english language, and a great deal of self confindence. This is something, I just don't usually expect to hear from an artist. n.n

Now... if that lacked any logic in what I said I blame my own sleepiness at the moment, but I'm sure any compliment I say will stand true to when I wake up tomorrow morning! n.n

Anyway, I do like your art greatly, and would love to commission something from you, though not tonight or in the near future I will say... simply because I have no job, and the need to support my life with friends and loved ones takes precedence to luxuries such as beautiful art... owo

I feel I am rambling a bit however and will end this very long post with a... hello, how are you n.n

I'm gonna get some sleep now. n.n

fantastic!
very insightful
even inspirational

Thanks! :)

Ah your voice is very pleasing to the ear. They way you speak, and what you have to say is superb!

Thanks. :)

i agree with your points, yes is a matter of opinion amd yes is a matter of supply and demand but, i think i have to add that many here buy with little money they could muster and only a good handful of users are able to slap a commission over 150$ (for an adoptable) to 750$ (single character cg) in auctions and out of them. people in this site feel out of reach because it maybe impossible to them (myself included) to get art from the artist you feel inspired or your a fan of, that said again i dont want to make an artist starve either. if there could be a way to pay by installments or some kind of agreement would be a way to open more to show some love for those of more humble economies would be hugely loved. If only more super costly artists would hear your comment of slicing up prices for quality but with an option to upgrade once you have the money fa would have another happy person.

For many artists, paying in installments is a perfectly viable solution. However, what's the difference between these two things:

1. Paying "the artist you feel inspired or you're a fan of" $20 bucks a month till you reach the full payment.

2. Putting $20 bucks in a jar every month 'till you've saved up enough to buy the piece.

If the artist won't accept payments, then you're probably stuck with option two. Though if said artist really means all that much to you, then it shouldn't be a problem.

My point being that if you feel that the artist is worth purchasing from, one shouldn't have trouble putting the money away for it. Some furries don't make as much as money-bags-fox who buys those expensive commissions every week, but that doesn't mean you can't save up. If you can afford to pay your internet bill (keeping in mind that the internet is a luxury, not a necessity), then you have the means to put a little money away.

If any the above paragraph seems "unfair", then the issue is not the price, it's that you're a self-entitled financially inept person.

It's something of a wonder to me when furries say things like "impossible to afford", when they're clearly affording internet. If you really don't have any pocket change at the end of the month, then you're amazing at balancing your paycheck-to-necessity bottom line, or you've got far far worse things to worry about than the cost of art, like eating, staying warm or having light at night.

i love you man, that is the correct thing to do now to save half a year twenties and wonder if by then the artist wouldnt have stopped arts for one reason or another. yes internet is a luxury to many to me is a neccesity i need it for maps and without it i would be without a job, that said when i gain more knowledge of the routes they give me i would stop wasting 24.99 all the months and that would alleviate things. Yes i agree with you there wholeheartedly.

You run that risk when you commission them right off the bat. Questioning whether an artist is going to be around in six months does about as much good as wondering if they're going to be around after they're finished the piece(s) ahead of yours. If they're not, then you'd be just as disappointed than otherwise, though you're now $120 bucks richer.

Not enough people realize or remember that art is a skilled trade. Whenever I see people complain about pricing, I ask them if they can do it themselves and more often than not the answer is no. Even the most talented artists take lots of time to study and practice their skills, and that time spent is an investment very worth capitalizing on. Well said, all in all!