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okay so... oh this is watercolor by the by
yep
chosen undead is drawn as the wanderer because i will forever see them as such. wanderer is the first class i ever played and it's a ballin' ass costume. you can take your trollface masks and feed them to Frampt. >8C
yeah so there are going to be some possible spoilers for the so series in this little rant. if you don't want spoilers don't read this?
i just wanted to elaborate on some opinions of what i had on the 'good ending' of the game
this is kind of a lore rant and my theories/opinions asdf
okay... possible spoilers in 3...
2...
1...
Go.
So in the beginning of the game the narrator tells us that in the beginning of time the world was covered in gray mist. Time never passed and everything was ageless. There was neither light nor dark. Only twilight. Then from 'Fire' there was birthed 'light and dark'. From the Fires came life. Also from the fire came humanity and Souls. Not just the powerful souls claimed by the 'lords'. Dark, also a byproduct of the Fire, begat the Dark Soul which was shattered and became Humanity.
I believe that all souls were born from this fire, not just the Lord Souls claimed by Gwyn and the other 'dieties'. Souls appear to grant power, seen first hand by the player. You use souls to make yourself stronger, almost frighteningly strong in some cases, as you level up. Sorcerers cast spells with he power of their souls. This is why they are so sought after. The merchants trade for them. Invaders try and take the ones you have away from you. It's all for that little prospect of power. Souls are the manifestation of power.
A level 50 or so Vit build can take multiple leathal hits without dropping. Compared to a normal human that's neigh Godly.
Those with the most powerful souls are deified as gods.
There are a few unaccounted for beings, such as Velka, but that's something for another rant. I already feel like I'm getting off topic.
The intro clearly seems to place emphasis on both Light and Dark. You need Undead seek souls to become powerful and Undead NEED Humanity or they will go Hollow and insane.
But now the Flames are fading and the world descends into twilight. The gods fear the loss of their power and try to find a way to keep the flames burning. The Witch of Izalith tries to make a new Flame from her soul and creates a warped life producing and life warping mass. Gwyn tries to sacrifice what's left of his Soul, that he broke into pieces as gifts for Seathe and the Kings of New Londo, to 'Link the Fire'. Gwyn, not strong enough to the Fire, is reduced to undying human kindling.
Gwyn's flame and the bonfires are the only light that remains in Anor Londo aside from the illusory light cast by the Lastborn. All light is pale and fading. The world is returning to Twilight. This results in a wavering and unstable timeline.
In one of the most primordial and secret places in the world an Everlasting Dragon calls apostles to become a new race of Dragons to usher in the return of gray twilight and timelessness.
In Anor Londo; Dark Sun Gwyndolin, Lastborn of Gwyn, crafts a false sun in the form of his sister. But like the moon's light is a pale reflection of the sun, Gwyndolin's light is dim and unwhole.
Meanwhile, two Undead escapes of the Asylum arrive in Lordran along close but wavering timelines. One of those Undead is the 'Chosen' Undead. You. The player.
The other is Knight Solaire. Who became undead to pursue a prophecy from his homeland of Astora. Solaire seeks his own sun and seeks to be like Gwyn. He also notes that your fate and his own appears to be intertwined when he offers his assistance.
After scrutinizing as much in-game information as I could acquire and uncovering dialogues I've come to the conclusion that the 'best' ending of the game requires the following.
1. You must save Solaire from Izalith.
2. You must Kill all the old 'deities' from Gwyn's reign and claim their souls.
3. You must summon Solaire in the Kiln of the First Flame and fight Gwyn with him.
4. Solaire must survive the fight.
5. You must choose to 'leave' rather than kindling the First Flame.
In his own 'world' Solaire Kindles his Flame, claiming the 'sun' he so deeply sought after in his travel. He ascends to become the New God of the Sun. With the Lordsouls he claimed and used to access the Kiln he has enough 'power' to withstand the First Flame. He becomes more stable Sun than Gwyn and does not fade.
You take upon the mantle of Dark Lord. You do not descend into wretchedness like Manus and the Four Kings of New Londo due to the fact that you also claimed the Souls of all the old lords. You are strong enough to sustain and oversee the darkness.
With a balance of Light and Dark the Twilight passes and the timeline stabilizes. The curse of the Undead, being locked in a state of mortal twilight, fades. Now life and death can proceed as they were meant to be. The timeline stabilizes over Lordran and the rest of the world.
If you become the Dark Lord without Solaire surviving the world becomes twisted like Oolacile. You too become Twisted like the Four Kings and Manus.
If you Link the Flame the same thing happens to you as what happened to Gwyn, you burn out and fade with no one to fill the role of darkness. The Darkness continues to exists as a blight with no one to control it. Solaire is meant for the role of the Sun for obvious reasons.
If both of you link it results in a second age of Fire, perhaps never-ending. However, as mentioned before, the Darkness spreads like a disease with no one to shepherd over it.
Long story short.
You and the baddest of bros get to become the Gods of the new world. Eggrolls are had. HAPPY END.
okay i'm done
thanks for lookin'
thanks for readin'
:D
yep
chosen undead is drawn as the wanderer because i will forever see them as such. wanderer is the first class i ever played and it's a ballin' ass costume. you can take your trollface masks and feed them to Frampt. >8C
yeah so there are going to be some possible spoilers for the so series in this little rant. if you don't want spoilers don't read this?
i just wanted to elaborate on some opinions of what i had on the 'good ending' of the game
this is kind of a lore rant and my theories/opinions asdf
okay... possible spoilers in 3...
2...
1...
Go.
So in the beginning of the game the narrator tells us that in the beginning of time the world was covered in gray mist. Time never passed and everything was ageless. There was neither light nor dark. Only twilight. Then from 'Fire' there was birthed 'light and dark'. From the Fires came life. Also from the fire came humanity and Souls. Not just the powerful souls claimed by the 'lords'. Dark, also a byproduct of the Fire, begat the Dark Soul which was shattered and became Humanity.
I believe that all souls were born from this fire, not just the Lord Souls claimed by Gwyn and the other 'dieties'. Souls appear to grant power, seen first hand by the player. You use souls to make yourself stronger, almost frighteningly strong in some cases, as you level up. Sorcerers cast spells with he power of their souls. This is why they are so sought after. The merchants trade for them. Invaders try and take the ones you have away from you. It's all for that little prospect of power. Souls are the manifestation of power.
A level 50 or so Vit build can take multiple leathal hits without dropping. Compared to a normal human that's neigh Godly.
Those with the most powerful souls are deified as gods.
There are a few unaccounted for beings, such as Velka, but that's something for another rant. I already feel like I'm getting off topic.
The intro clearly seems to place emphasis on both Light and Dark. You need Undead seek souls to become powerful and Undead NEED Humanity or they will go Hollow and insane.
But now the Flames are fading and the world descends into twilight. The gods fear the loss of their power and try to find a way to keep the flames burning. The Witch of Izalith tries to make a new Flame from her soul and creates a warped life producing and life warping mass. Gwyn tries to sacrifice what's left of his Soul, that he broke into pieces as gifts for Seathe and the Kings of New Londo, to 'Link the Fire'. Gwyn, not strong enough to the Fire, is reduced to undying human kindling.
Gwyn's flame and the bonfires are the only light that remains in Anor Londo aside from the illusory light cast by the Lastborn. All light is pale and fading. The world is returning to Twilight. This results in a wavering and unstable timeline.
In one of the most primordial and secret places in the world an Everlasting Dragon calls apostles to become a new race of Dragons to usher in the return of gray twilight and timelessness.
In Anor Londo; Dark Sun Gwyndolin, Lastborn of Gwyn, crafts a false sun in the form of his sister. But like the moon's light is a pale reflection of the sun, Gwyndolin's light is dim and unwhole.
Meanwhile, two Undead escapes of the Asylum arrive in Lordran along close but wavering timelines. One of those Undead is the 'Chosen' Undead. You. The player.
The other is Knight Solaire. Who became undead to pursue a prophecy from his homeland of Astora. Solaire seeks his own sun and seeks to be like Gwyn. He also notes that your fate and his own appears to be intertwined when he offers his assistance.
After scrutinizing as much in-game information as I could acquire and uncovering dialogues I've come to the conclusion that the 'best' ending of the game requires the following.
1. You must save Solaire from Izalith.
2. You must Kill all the old 'deities' from Gwyn's reign and claim their souls.
3. You must summon Solaire in the Kiln of the First Flame and fight Gwyn with him.
4. Solaire must survive the fight.
5. You must choose to 'leave' rather than kindling the First Flame.
In his own 'world' Solaire Kindles his Flame, claiming the 'sun' he so deeply sought after in his travel. He ascends to become the New God of the Sun. With the Lordsouls he claimed and used to access the Kiln he has enough 'power' to withstand the First Flame. He becomes more stable Sun than Gwyn and does not fade.
You take upon the mantle of Dark Lord. You do not descend into wretchedness like Manus and the Four Kings of New Londo due to the fact that you also claimed the Souls of all the old lords. You are strong enough to sustain and oversee the darkness.
With a balance of Light and Dark the Twilight passes and the timeline stabilizes. The curse of the Undead, being locked in a state of mortal twilight, fades. Now life and death can proceed as they were meant to be. The timeline stabilizes over Lordran and the rest of the world.
If you become the Dark Lord without Solaire surviving the world becomes twisted like Oolacile. You too become Twisted like the Four Kings and Manus.
If you Link the Flame the same thing happens to you as what happened to Gwyn, you burn out and fade with no one to fill the role of darkness. The Darkness continues to exists as a blight with no one to control it. Solaire is meant for the role of the Sun for obvious reasons.
If both of you link it results in a second age of Fire, perhaps never-ending. However, as mentioned before, the Darkness spreads like a disease with no one to shepherd over it.
Long story short.
You and the baddest of bros get to become the Gods of the new world. Eggrolls are had. HAPPY END.
okay i'm done
thanks for lookin'
thanks for readin'
:D
Category Artwork (Traditional) / Fantasy
Species Human
Size 1280 x 784px
File Size 242 kB
Well, no. My butt is not warm.
Anyway intelligent response I said right, already talking about warm butts and whatnots... Right *ahem*
Allthough I do agree with you that the good ending has Solaire along with you. HOWEVER, technically I have some issues regarding the two of us becoming lords.
Leaving the bonfire after beating Gwyn would resemble to cast the world into darkness, by removing the taint of the former lords on the world you allow it to heal, albeit in the dark. I am not sure how it would affect the curse upon the undead, I am not sure how it came to be. Then again I only read into the story what the game supplies you with.
Now what is so techincal about this story?
Well the fact that it would appear that Solaire is in your game, as opposed to other phantoms. So you would share the same time line. Wich would mean you summon Solaire within your own timeline. Whiiiiich would mean he would not be kindeling any bonfire, unless he kindles it AFTER you left the room, making him the new Dark Lord since you left the opportunity open.
Uhm....
I think anyway... The good ending would be to leave the people alive who -should- be alive at the end. I.e. Keeping Solaire alive, summon him everywhere and have him survive it all (even though he is technically a phantom, but because he is physically present in your world several times you would think he actually needs to survive it all, would make him not a real phantom.) Wether or not you chose Kingseeker Frampt to guide you is all up to your own. Because I can champion the fact that Kaathe is not an 'evil' guy either.
People with humanity are dangerous, as you said having a soul grants one power and with power comes humanity. Kaathe and his Darkwraith keeps the people with humanity in check, or they attempt to thus keeping the world safer. Now I need you to have this in the back of your mind, this is pure speculations and I have no real evidence to back it up but bear with me for a moment.
It is obvious that Gwyn (and it's cohorts, perhaps Manus too, not sure whats up with him really..) got far to much power. The player can choose to join the darkmoon to keep the current rulers in power, you see the 'sins' commited are all sins commited against them. So joining the darkmoon would actually be evil, joining the darkwraiths (and as such siphon the humanity of others) would be the good choice.
Okay I am getting off topic, but it explains my view on a 'good ending'. For some reason I just do not trust Frampt. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer right? And who is the closest to you of the two serpets? Exactly.. :P
Anyway, my good ending contains:
1. Beeing a Darkwraith.
2. Ignore Frampt (actually punch him till he goes back to slumber)
3. Eradicate the royal family surgically (Princess, Gwyndolyn and eventually Gwyn)
4. The four lords go down as they are supporters of Gwyn
5. Solaire (as only honest person in the entire game... seriously) has to survive & help destroying Gwyn.
6. Kindle the bonfire, restoring true light to the place you have darkened (I.e. replacing the fake sun with the true Sun, the Sun Solaire seeks.)
I wish I could spare Sif though. The new content just struck me as. "Oh hell naw... I gotta fight him still? And... this is a different cinematic... oooh snap nooo!"
I loved that cinematic.
... This is what I think, and I am quite certain it's not -that- true. But it's how I see the game and it's story.
Also, my lvl 331 character is on a New Game +++++.... It's freaking impossible. XD
And pvp is annoying... Still havel wearing people with spears that chainpoke you...
Meh my occult zweihander +5 will take care of that...
Anyway intelligent response I said right, already talking about warm butts and whatnots... Right *ahem*
Allthough I do agree with you that the good ending has Solaire along with you. HOWEVER, technically I have some issues regarding the two of us becoming lords.
Leaving the bonfire after beating Gwyn would resemble to cast the world into darkness, by removing the taint of the former lords on the world you allow it to heal, albeit in the dark. I am not sure how it would affect the curse upon the undead, I am not sure how it came to be. Then again I only read into the story what the game supplies you with.
Now what is so techincal about this story?
Well the fact that it would appear that Solaire is in your game, as opposed to other phantoms. So you would share the same time line. Wich would mean you summon Solaire within your own timeline. Whiiiiich would mean he would not be kindeling any bonfire, unless he kindles it AFTER you left the room, making him the new Dark Lord since you left the opportunity open.
Uhm....
I think anyway... The good ending would be to leave the people alive who -should- be alive at the end. I.e. Keeping Solaire alive, summon him everywhere and have him survive it all (even though he is technically a phantom, but because he is physically present in your world several times you would think he actually needs to survive it all, would make him not a real phantom.) Wether or not you chose Kingseeker Frampt to guide you is all up to your own. Because I can champion the fact that Kaathe is not an 'evil' guy either.
People with humanity are dangerous, as you said having a soul grants one power and with power comes humanity. Kaathe and his Darkwraith keeps the people with humanity in check, or they attempt to thus keeping the world safer. Now I need you to have this in the back of your mind, this is pure speculations and I have no real evidence to back it up but bear with me for a moment.
It is obvious that Gwyn (and it's cohorts, perhaps Manus too, not sure whats up with him really..) got far to much power. The player can choose to join the darkmoon to keep the current rulers in power, you see the 'sins' commited are all sins commited against them. So joining the darkmoon would actually be evil, joining the darkwraiths (and as such siphon the humanity of others) would be the good choice.
Okay I am getting off topic, but it explains my view on a 'good ending'. For some reason I just do not trust Frampt. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer right? And who is the closest to you of the two serpets? Exactly.. :P
Anyway, my good ending contains:
1. Beeing a Darkwraith.
2. Ignore Frampt (actually punch him till he goes back to slumber)
3. Eradicate the royal family surgically (Princess, Gwyndolyn and eventually Gwyn)
4. The four lords go down as they are supporters of Gwyn
5. Solaire (as only honest person in the entire game... seriously) has to survive & help destroying Gwyn.
6. Kindle the bonfire, restoring true light to the place you have darkened (I.e. replacing the fake sun with the true Sun, the Sun Solaire seeks.)
I wish I could spare Sif though. The new content just struck me as. "Oh hell naw... I gotta fight him still? And... this is a different cinematic... oooh snap nooo!"
I loved that cinematic.
... This is what I think, and I am quite certain it's not -that- true. But it's how I see the game and it's story.
Also, my lvl 331 character is on a New Game +++++.... It's freaking impossible. XD
And pvp is annoying... Still havel wearing people with spears that chainpoke you...
Meh my occult zweihander +5 will take care of that...
Did you skip over the part about twilight and wavering timelines?
Now what is so techincal about this story?
Well the fact that it would appear that Solaire is in your game, as opposed to other phantoms. So you would share the same time line. Wich would mean you summon Solaire within your own timeline. Whiiiiich would mean he would not be kindeling any bonfire, unless he kindles it AFTER you left the room, making him the new Dark Lord since you left the opportunity open.
It was confirmed that Solaire Kindles if he survives Izalith.
Wether or not you chose Kingseeker Frampt to guide you is all up to your own. Because I can champion the fact that Kaathe is not an 'evil' guy either.
I think both serpents are actually being deceptive. DLC alludes to the fact that serpents can't be trusted. Also. They are -serpents-. Incomplete and a symbol of deception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(Bible)
I'm sorry I can't really side with the bandwagon that seems to side with Kaathe. While I don't believe everything he says is a lie individuals who are truly deceptive don't outwardly lie. They stretch truths and muddle the two.
I think Fraampt is also truthful about at least one thing. If you Link the Fire you WILL take Gwyn's place and burn until your fire dies out.
Kaathe's goals as Darkwraith are not to control people but rather return ever piece of humanity to the Abyss. This robs the undead of their sanity and their means of becoming something more than a monster.
People just want to 'justify' Darkwraith cov.
When I get that they like the pvp. No I really do the PVP is great and I love it... but DW are what they are.
Okay I am getting off topic, but it explains my view on a 'good ending'. For some reason I just do not trust Frampt. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer right? And who is the closest to you of the two serpets? Exactly.. :P
I'm not really seeing your logic....
Also the Darkmoons aren't in nature bad, but Gwyndolin took over the covenant and he's... well... he's not exactly stable considering he was locked in a tomb his whole life.
1. Beeing a Darkwraith.
I don't see how this factors into anything. I don't think covenant contributes to the ending. This is personal choice for flavor.
2. Ignore Frampt (actually punch him till he goes back to slumber)
Also irrelevant. I think it makes more sense story wise for the PC to hear out both serpents.
3. Eradicate the royal family surgically (Princess, Gwyndolyn and eventually Gwyn)
Agreed but the Princess in Anor Londo is a fake. The real Princess lives far from Lordran.
4. The four lords go down as they are supporters of Gwyn
Actually Seathe's insane, the Witch was consumed by her own flame, Nito has been drained by Pinwheel and perpetuates Unlife, and the Four Kings don't actually support Gwyn... Who is the 'fourth' lord here?
5. Solaire (as only honest person in the entire game... seriously) has to survive & help destroying Gwyn.
There are some other honest folks. Solaire is just... he's there with you mostly the whole time(if you do it right). Best bro.
6. Kindle the bonfire, restoring true light to the place you have darkened (I.e. replacing the fake sun with the true Sun, the Sun Solaire seeks.)
I already mentioned that Solaire kindles. So imo the Sun is for him to inherit.
Also you should probably mark you post with a spoiler tag.
I might hide these when you're don discussing. A few of my watchers picked up the game after seeing the series fanart in my gallery and I don't want them getting spoiled. The game is pretty much about discovering things on your own.
Now what is so techincal about this story?
Well the fact that it would appear that Solaire is in your game, as opposed to other phantoms. So you would share the same time line. Wich would mean you summon Solaire within your own timeline. Whiiiiich would mean he would not be kindeling any bonfire, unless he kindles it AFTER you left the room, making him the new Dark Lord since you left the opportunity open.
It was confirmed that Solaire Kindles if he survives Izalith.
Wether or not you chose Kingseeker Frampt to guide you is all up to your own. Because I can champion the fact that Kaathe is not an 'evil' guy either.
I think both serpents are actually being deceptive. DLC alludes to the fact that serpents can't be trusted. Also. They are -serpents-. Incomplete and a symbol of deception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(Bible)
I'm sorry I can't really side with the bandwagon that seems to side with Kaathe. While I don't believe everything he says is a lie individuals who are truly deceptive don't outwardly lie. They stretch truths and muddle the two.
I think Fraampt is also truthful about at least one thing. If you Link the Fire you WILL take Gwyn's place and burn until your fire dies out.
Kaathe's goals as Darkwraith are not to control people but rather return ever piece of humanity to the Abyss. This robs the undead of their sanity and their means of becoming something more than a monster.
People just want to 'justify' Darkwraith cov.
When I get that they like the pvp. No I really do the PVP is great and I love it... but DW are what they are.
Okay I am getting off topic, but it explains my view on a 'good ending'. For some reason I just do not trust Frampt. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer right? And who is the closest to you of the two serpets? Exactly.. :P
I'm not really seeing your logic....
Also the Darkmoons aren't in nature bad, but Gwyndolin took over the covenant and he's... well... he's not exactly stable considering he was locked in a tomb his whole life.
1. Beeing a Darkwraith.
I don't see how this factors into anything. I don't think covenant contributes to the ending. This is personal choice for flavor.
2. Ignore Frampt (actually punch him till he goes back to slumber)
Also irrelevant. I think it makes more sense story wise for the PC to hear out both serpents.
3. Eradicate the royal family surgically (Princess, Gwyndolyn and eventually Gwyn)
Agreed but the Princess in Anor Londo is a fake. The real Princess lives far from Lordran.
4. The four lords go down as they are supporters of Gwyn
Actually Seathe's insane, the Witch was consumed by her own flame, Nito has been drained by Pinwheel and perpetuates Unlife, and the Four Kings don't actually support Gwyn... Who is the 'fourth' lord here?
5. Solaire (as only honest person in the entire game... seriously) has to survive & help destroying Gwyn.
There are some other honest folks. Solaire is just... he's there with you mostly the whole time(if you do it right). Best bro.
6. Kindle the bonfire, restoring true light to the place you have darkened (I.e. replacing the fake sun with the true Sun, the Sun Solaire seeks.)
I already mentioned that Solaire kindles. So imo the Sun is for him to inherit.
Also you should probably mark you post with a spoiler tag.
I might hide these when you're don discussing. A few of my watchers picked up the game after seeing the series fanart in my gallery and I don't want them getting spoiled. The game is pretty much about discovering things on your own.
Not sure if spoiler tags actually work on FA but go ahead n hide em.
[ALLTHOUGH THIS MIGHT BE SPOILERS, THEREFOR A TAG IS WORTH IT.]
3....
Can turn away now.
2....
1....
Hokay
Like I said, I do not really read much into the story, it's the way I perceived the game :) Not saying you are wrong or that I am right. Don't get me wrong.
I did not pick up on that Solaire actually kindles the bonfire if you leave it there, good of you to mention that.
About the darkwraith, sure they are annoying, obnoxiouis, "I am the greatest since sliced bread" and generally hindering to progress through the game. But within my own reasoning I saw them as a faction that keeps things in check, wether it be taking the humanity of 'accidental bystanders' or the Lord Gwyn himself (just that none was strong enough to take him own). It matters not (gamewise) if you are a forest hunter or way of white member.
The princess, well wether or not she is fake, she is a symbol. And we actually agree on that. Never heard that the actuall princess lives far from Lordran, once again I only read ingame texts (and most of that has faded my memory since the last time I really went into the game without rushing it was when it was first released.)
Well in my eyes the four 'lords' are the ones with the Lord Souls.
1. Seath, dispite him beeing insane, he is still there and still holding a Lords Soul.
2. The witch was indeed consumed by her own flame, but in it's wake the Bed of Chaos was spawned and holding onto her Lord Soul (Technically it isn't a lord but my reasoning is that whoever holds the lord soul is the lord.)
3. Nito... Well he is just a shambeling mass of bones is he not? With a Lord Soul.
4. The Four Kings... Allthough I am not sure why they are called the four kings, as there are actually more of them then 4 (just tough it out long enough and you will count 5, maybe more I never got further then that.)
I still count 4 "Lord encounters" which yield a Lords Soul. That's why I thought 4 lords (even though one consists of 4 or even more). And they support Lord Gwyn as in "as long as they have the four souls, the lordvessel cannot function fully, therefor keeping Gwyn safe."
Sure the Pyromancer, Rhea and all them other folks are nice and all. But they don't... wander about all that much. Rhea goes to the Tomb of Giants of course and Siegmayer is... well all over the place. But not in the way Sunbro does.
And well of course the sun is for Sunbro to inherit. It's only fair wouldn't you agree? (actually this also did not occur to me untill you pointed out that he actually kindles the bonfire after Izalith.)
Once again, I have no disire to get into a squabble over what is true and what is not true and I'd love to learn more about it. You pointed out a couple of things that had not yet occured to me. But my perception isn't yours (thankfully it isn't, leaves something to chitter about right?)
I guess I'm not much of a story unraveller, but more of a walking gameguide, I have the syndrome of "Remember ALL the things, where you pick it up and where you get what in which way."
I actually like this and look forward to seeing more art about Dark Souls. So far it's been my favorite and most hated game, right up there with other fond memories like Final Fantasy and the good Ol' Retro games I still play fondly.
[ALLTHOUGH THIS MIGHT BE SPOILERS, THEREFOR A TAG IS WORTH IT.]
3....
Can turn away now.
2....
1....
Hokay
Like I said, I do not really read much into the story, it's the way I perceived the game :) Not saying you are wrong or that I am right. Don't get me wrong.
I did not pick up on that Solaire actually kindles the bonfire if you leave it there, good of you to mention that.
About the darkwraith, sure they are annoying, obnoxiouis, "I am the greatest since sliced bread" and generally hindering to progress through the game. But within my own reasoning I saw them as a faction that keeps things in check, wether it be taking the humanity of 'accidental bystanders' or the Lord Gwyn himself (just that none was strong enough to take him own). It matters not (gamewise) if you are a forest hunter or way of white member.
The princess, well wether or not she is fake, she is a symbol. And we actually agree on that. Never heard that the actuall princess lives far from Lordran, once again I only read ingame texts (and most of that has faded my memory since the last time I really went into the game without rushing it was when it was first released.)
Well in my eyes the four 'lords' are the ones with the Lord Souls.
1. Seath, dispite him beeing insane, he is still there and still holding a Lords Soul.
2. The witch was indeed consumed by her own flame, but in it's wake the Bed of Chaos was spawned and holding onto her Lord Soul (Technically it isn't a lord but my reasoning is that whoever holds the lord soul is the lord.)
3. Nito... Well he is just a shambeling mass of bones is he not? With a Lord Soul.
4. The Four Kings... Allthough I am not sure why they are called the four kings, as there are actually more of them then 4 (just tough it out long enough and you will count 5, maybe more I never got further then that.)
I still count 4 "Lord encounters" which yield a Lords Soul. That's why I thought 4 lords (even though one consists of 4 or even more). And they support Lord Gwyn as in "as long as they have the four souls, the lordvessel cannot function fully, therefor keeping Gwyn safe."
Sure the Pyromancer, Rhea and all them other folks are nice and all. But they don't... wander about all that much. Rhea goes to the Tomb of Giants of course and Siegmayer is... well all over the place. But not in the way Sunbro does.
And well of course the sun is for Sunbro to inherit. It's only fair wouldn't you agree? (actually this also did not occur to me untill you pointed out that he actually kindles the bonfire after Izalith.)
Once again, I have no disire to get into a squabble over what is true and what is not true and I'd love to learn more about it. You pointed out a couple of things that had not yet occured to me. But my perception isn't yours (thankfully it isn't, leaves something to chitter about right?)
I guess I'm not much of a story unraveller, but more of a walking gameguide, I have the syndrome of "Remember ALL the things, where you pick it up and where you get what in which way."
I actually like this and look forward to seeing more art about Dark Souls. So far it's been my favorite and most hated game, right up there with other fond memories like Final Fantasy and the good Ol' Retro games I still play fondly.
(Imminent Spoiler)
(Be Wary of Spoiler)
(Spoiler ahead)
Well the beauty of the game is that so many players can play it and they can each have their very own personal experiences with the game. Your story in game is literally what you make of it.
A dragon cov member might perceive the 'leave' ending as ushering back in the age of dragons.
Some people swear up and down that Dark Souls is the sequel to the 'bad' ending of Demon Souls.
...And so this is my good ending! :D
I agree with the need to kill the Lords part but I don't think they're supporting Gwyn. Fraampt tells you they have outlived their purpose of have become corrupt so you shouldn't feel guilt over murdering them.
Siegmeyer is one I was thinking of. RIP Onion-bro :(
I wish you could summon him so badly.
And... I probably look like an obsessive for collecting all this info. I just happens when you've clocked over 400 hours in game. I have the game guide syndrome too, as far as remembering things. I run catacombs blind when I decide to invade there.
I also love Invaders and don't see them as a hindrance to progress, but more of an opportunity to have fun.
Also I don't typically like to go that high with levels. Level 35 is usually right around where I stay :)
(Be Wary of Spoiler)
(Spoiler ahead)
Well the beauty of the game is that so many players can play it and they can each have their very own personal experiences with the game. Your story in game is literally what you make of it.
A dragon cov member might perceive the 'leave' ending as ushering back in the age of dragons.
Some people swear up and down that Dark Souls is the sequel to the 'bad' ending of Demon Souls.
...And so this is my good ending! :D
I agree with the need to kill the Lords part but I don't think they're supporting Gwyn. Fraampt tells you they have outlived their purpose of have become corrupt so you shouldn't feel guilt over murdering them.
Siegmeyer is one I was thinking of. RIP Onion-bro :(
I wish you could summon him so badly.
And... I probably look like an obsessive for collecting all this info. I just happens when you've clocked over 400 hours in game. I have the game guide syndrome too, as far as remembering things. I run catacombs blind when I decide to invade there.
I also love Invaders and don't see them as a hindrance to progress, but more of an opportunity to have fun.
Also I don't typically like to go that high with levels. Level 35 is usually right around where I stay :)
Hehe, well I must say I clocked over 350+ hours (376:52, I checked, just for you.) on that character, and yes this was before the infamous dragonheadglitch got removed. Yes I beat New Game + + + on my own merit, but messing up the weapons (soul of sif on the wrong sword) caused me to go for New Game + + + + which was just to much of a grind for me. Thus I did what any sane person would do, chuck dat guy to 300+ and get it over with.
I know most people stay around lvl 35, but the xbox community is.... deadset on pvp-ing in giant armor +5 or Havels armor with spears behind shields, preferably 3 vs 1 b**** smacking you once you invade (on the stairs in the Darkroot Forest, you know what I mean right?). Last time it took me 8 backstabs to get someone down to 'decent health' and with a +5 occult zweihander (R1 attack: 589) that is... horrifying. So lvl 120 is the most 'decent' thing to be at I think. Though I am sure I fought with 400+ people, as I ask them what their loadout is, out of curiosity.
And don't worry about beeing obsessive. I have a friend of mine playing the PS3 version (humor, the community there is so... so... errr.... different I guess. They actually greet eachother. Blue phantoms help killing red phantoms, people go one on one sometimes with phantoms and people tend to be less of a douche.. Allthough you have your twats of course.) and he actually clocked waaaaaaaaaaay more hours into the game then I did. I think if I would count all his playtime over all 8 characters (and the ones he deleted) I think he is well over 600. And yes, he is obnoxious about it. But I get to laugh at him too, made Avaline crystal one day. I was laughing my shiney britches off.
Actually, I believe you can have Siegmeyer alive at the end. I would have to check wikidot, but I am pretty sure you can get something from him for completeing the (overly long by the way) chain of events with him.
Me and my friend reached that point where we "Play the game the way we want to play it" instead of doing it the "easy way". LIke he went full on intellect melee the other day. Enchanted balder side sword, and the next day he was "ah, let's make a miracle user.". Hence why I wanted to get Grant from Leeroy since I just started a paladin person.
I know most people stay around lvl 35, but the xbox community is.... deadset on pvp-ing in giant armor +5 or Havels armor with spears behind shields, preferably 3 vs 1 b**** smacking you once you invade (on the stairs in the Darkroot Forest, you know what I mean right?). Last time it took me 8 backstabs to get someone down to 'decent health' and with a +5 occult zweihander (R1 attack: 589) that is... horrifying. So lvl 120 is the most 'decent' thing to be at I think. Though I am sure I fought with 400+ people, as I ask them what their loadout is, out of curiosity.
And don't worry about beeing obsessive. I have a friend of mine playing the PS3 version (humor, the community there is so... so... errr.... different I guess. They actually greet eachother. Blue phantoms help killing red phantoms, people go one on one sometimes with phantoms and people tend to be less of a douche.. Allthough you have your twats of course.) and he actually clocked waaaaaaaaaaay more hours into the game then I did. I think if I would count all his playtime over all 8 characters (and the ones he deleted) I think he is well over 600. And yes, he is obnoxious about it. But I get to laugh at him too, made Avaline crystal one day. I was laughing my shiney britches off.
Actually, I believe you can have Siegmeyer alive at the end. I would have to check wikidot, but I am pretty sure you can get something from him for completeing the (overly long by the way) chain of events with him.
Me and my friend reached that point where we "Play the game the way we want to play it" instead of doing it the "easy way". LIke he went full on intellect melee the other day. Enchanted balder side sword, and the next day he was "ah, let's make a miracle user.". Hence why I wanted to get Grant from Leeroy since I just started a paladin person.
Ahhh see I don't bother much with NG+ much. I just make new toons when I get bored.
PC community has fucking shittons of hackers. Even if you don't meet someone with infinite health there's like a 1 in ten chance you're going to get someone who used a trainer.
Casting Crystal Soul Spear at level 20? Using Grant too? Nope nope nope nope. There was a nasty guy patrolling Wyvern bridge using Moonlight Sword and casting WoG AND CSS. Most likely there preying on nooblets.
Luckily most of the hackers aren't worth a golden god damn in PVP.
i'd totally expect the PS3 com to be classier too. PS3s cost money. any old red neck can get himself an Xbox.
8 backstabs is pretty redic, though. vit builds... guh.
i don't think Seig can actually survive. It used to say he could on one wiki but i think they just be trollin'
i've done his quest-line and... i guess i don't notice how long it is. It's actually sort of comforting to see him hanging around BT and places.
PC community has fucking shittons of hackers. Even if you don't meet someone with infinite health there's like a 1 in ten chance you're going to get someone who used a trainer.
Casting Crystal Soul Spear at level 20? Using Grant too? Nope nope nope nope. There was a nasty guy patrolling Wyvern bridge using Moonlight Sword and casting WoG AND CSS. Most likely there preying on nooblets.
Luckily most of the hackers aren't worth a golden god damn in PVP.
i'd totally expect the PS3 com to be classier too. PS3s cost money. any old red neck can get himself an Xbox.
8 backstabs is pretty redic, though. vit builds... guh.
i don't think Seig can actually survive. It used to say he could on one wiki but i think they just be trollin'
i've done his quest-line and... i guess i don't notice how long it is. It's actually sort of comforting to see him hanging around BT and places.
[SPOILER WARNING BACK AWAY FROM THIS POST NOW!]
Actually if you do -everything- right, you will meet his daughter, she will go down to the Hollows below Blighttown, chasing Seigmeyer.
If you did it all right he and Catarina meet up, you get a slab and everyone lives happily ever after.
if you did not do the last bit correct, they both go mental and attack you, not giving a slab.
And to be honest, xbox got hackers too. 8x 666 damage is... how much? Yes, impossible to obtain (with 99 vit, mask of mother & ring of FaP you have about... 2500 MAX. Xbox has alot of those people too for some reason. But most of them are just pansies going for the easy win, instead of having a pair. Though I can't blame em. If an invader invades me anywhere I go ballistic on them too, no freebies. Well I guess its different in the forest, where you can expect to get invaded and forced to pvp. So either you become really good at beating sif, or... well run and pray.)
[SPOILER DONE]
NG + makes it so much more.... challenging.
And by challenging I mean unforgiving. My 331 char is as high on steroids as can be, but still he fails to deliver. And it's not me, I've been looking into scaling weapons of all kinds since Electric got nerfed last patch (thank freaking Gwyn for that, see what I did there? :D) But... it's.... Impossible :P
Actually if you do -everything- right, you will meet his daughter, she will go down to the Hollows below Blighttown, chasing Seigmeyer.
If you did it all right he and Catarina meet up, you get a slab and everyone lives happily ever after.
if you did not do the last bit correct, they both go mental and attack you, not giving a slab.
And to be honest, xbox got hackers too. 8x 666 damage is... how much? Yes, impossible to obtain (with 99 vit, mask of mother & ring of FaP you have about... 2500 MAX. Xbox has alot of those people too for some reason. But most of them are just pansies going for the easy win, instead of having a pair. Though I can't blame em. If an invader invades me anywhere I go ballistic on them too, no freebies. Well I guess its different in the forest, where you can expect to get invaded and forced to pvp. So either you become really good at beating sif, or... well run and pray.)
[SPOILER DONE]
NG + makes it so much more.... challenging.
And by challenging I mean unforgiving. My 331 char is as high on steroids as can be, but still he fails to deliver. And it's not me, I've been looking into scaling weapons of all kinds since Electric got nerfed last patch (thank freaking Gwyn for that, see what I did there? :D) But... it's.... Impossible :P
Oh I've found onionbabby and everything.
You find him dead in Ash Lake and she's there crying over his corpse if you do it right.
I won't believe you can see them both until I see screenshots.
Also I'm pretty sure Vit has a soft cap somewhere so... it might be less than that.
I find myself getting summoned into lots of NG+ sessions so yeah. I know the pain. Silver knights can one hit slay my level 35 even with my full set of favor.
You find him dead in Ash Lake and she's there crying over his corpse if you do it right.
I won't believe you can see them both until I see screenshots.
Also I'm pretty sure Vit has a soft cap somewhere so... it might be less than that.
I find myself getting summoned into lots of NG+ sessions so yeah. I know the pain. Silver knights can one hit slay my level 35 even with my full set of favor.
Well, I never got it as far but I hear things left and right by people who are.... far more addicted to this game then me.
Vit has a softcap of 50 (as far as I can tell you only gain 8 or 9 hp per level up after that. Same goes for endurance.)
But at the time I did not thinka bout it and just poured everything into the stats as I saw fit (i.e. 99 vit 99 end, 75 str, 50 dex 50 faith 50 int etc.)
But even then the game is pretty hard after the fourth run through.
[Biggest spoiler ever, seriously, skip this if you want to enjoy finding out yourself. Seriously. No joke.]
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/siegmeyer-of-catarina Is the entire questline, quite a tricky one if you ask me.
[End of the spoilar]
In hind sight, it would appear you are correct. Though I need some more time to search for it properly. And to be honest, I never really bothered bringing it to a good end. I only went down there ONCE. To get the weapon & magic :P
Vit has a softcap of 50 (as far as I can tell you only gain 8 or 9 hp per level up after that. Same goes for endurance.)
But at the time I did not thinka bout it and just poured everything into the stats as I saw fit (i.e. 99 vit 99 end, 75 str, 50 dex 50 faith 50 int etc.)
But even then the game is pretty hard after the fourth run through.
[Biggest spoiler ever, seriously, skip this if you want to enjoy finding out yourself. Seriously. No joke.]
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/siegmeyer-of-catarina Is the entire questline, quite a tricky one if you ask me.
[End of the spoilar]
In hind sight, it would appear you are correct. Though I need some more time to search for it properly. And to be honest, I never really bothered bringing it to a good end. I only went down there ONCE. To get the weapon & magic :P
Yes I ALREADY have done the WHOLE Catarina story-line. I have all their gifts and Sieglinde is in Ash lake for me. I have said this a few times times. You don't need to keep linking and instructing me how to do it. D:
I have exercised most of the NPC plots in the game and I'm currently experimenting to see if I can uncover more about lautrec's connection with patches or if there's even a plot that goes anywhere between the two of them, since you can meet Patches earlier than tomb.
And he can have a 'good' end... he just takes a nap in soup forever... which i suppose is about the same as death.
I have exercised most of the NPC plots in the game and I'm currently experimenting to see if I can uncover more about lautrec's connection with patches or if there's even a plot that goes anywhere between the two of them, since you can meet Patches earlier than tomb.
And he can have a 'good' end... he just takes a nap in soup forever... which i suppose is about the same as death.
I actually... don't see how someone can chainpoke with Dragonslayer. The stamina tax on it is fairly high. The poise damage on it isn't marvelous either. The lightning will stagger you if you take a hit and you don't have the poise to compensate and this CAN result in stunlock.
Otherwise... considering the SL Sacrifice you need to actually use the weapon, the upgrade route, and the mediocre scaling I wouldn't really dare to call it OP at all. I have a friend that made an entire build around it and it performed anywhere from mediocre to poor.
I also believe the reach on the pike might be greater. I think SKS is about the same length.
On the topic of spears I think a vastly underused weapon is Four Pronged Plow. One of the power attacks tears through poise and stamina like Ricard's Rapier and if you position yourself right there are invincibility frames in the moveset that can really frustrate people.
Otherwise... considering the SL Sacrifice you need to actually use the weapon, the upgrade route, and the mediocre scaling I wouldn't really dare to call it OP at all. I have a friend that made an entire build around it and it performed anywhere from mediocre to poor.
I also believe the reach on the pike might be greater. I think SKS is about the same length.
On the topic of spears I think a vastly underused weapon is Four Pronged Plow. One of the power attacks tears through poise and stamina like Ricard's Rapier and if you position yourself right there are invincibility frames in the moveset that can really frustrate people.
I looked at some calculations with a character planner.
I checked the Char planner. If you do nothing but pump the relevant stats for DSS it deals 340 phys and 151 Lit
not really worth it...
If you don`t care about damage type split you can get 430 total out of the Pike at Lit+5 x:
I checked the Char planner. If you do nothing but pump the relevant stats for DSS it deals 340 phys and 151 Lit
not really worth it...
If you don`t care about damage type split you can get 430 total out of the Pike at Lit+5 x:
Hehe well I am talking about someone who only gets invaded, 2hands the spear and is in full giants armor (probably +5) I got him to backstab once, did 865 damage which was about 1/3rd (rather less then 1/3rd but it's an estimate).
Most of the encounter goes like this, I'm having my shield up because of the rediculous range (both from his perspective to the front but also left and right of the speer. It's reach is about 2x it's width which is... stupid.) He gives one poke, backs off regenerating stamina rapidly due to not holding the shield button (he actually doesn't use the grass crest shield, its just on his back).
Rinse, and repeat.
It's actually quite annoying. In paladin armor +5 your poise is enough to ignore the spear, but the ligthning makes you stagger by default. So in that way he can chainpoke (without stopping to rest) for about 8 or 9 times. One poke takes about 1.5 bar of stamina from me and if I get hit it gobbles about 2 bars hp. As a lvl 90 with a mere 1189hp, that's rather annoying. But not as annoying as people ganing up on you. But meh, I suppose it's the game.
Lautrec? The annoying & obnoxious guy who murders the poor bonfirekeeper? (My favorite keeper since I use that bonfire for... well just about anything xD) The one who sits locked in a cell, where he in my opinion should stay? :P What would his connection to patches be, apart from both of them giving you a run for your money?
Most of the encounter goes like this, I'm having my shield up because of the rediculous range (both from his perspective to the front but also left and right of the speer. It's reach is about 2x it's width which is... stupid.) He gives one poke, backs off regenerating stamina rapidly due to not holding the shield button (he actually doesn't use the grass crest shield, its just on his back).
Rinse, and repeat.
It's actually quite annoying. In paladin armor +5 your poise is enough to ignore the spear, but the ligthning makes you stagger by default. So in that way he can chainpoke (without stopping to rest) for about 8 or 9 times. One poke takes about 1.5 bar of stamina from me and if I get hit it gobbles about 2 bars hp. As a lvl 90 with a mere 1189hp, that's rather annoying. But not as annoying as people ganing up on you. But meh, I suppose it's the game.
Lautrec? The annoying & obnoxious guy who murders the poor bonfirekeeper? (My favorite keeper since I use that bonfire for... well just about anything xD) The one who sits locked in a cell, where he in my opinion should stay? :P What would his connection to patches be, apart from both of them giving you a run for your money?
Hate to sound like a jerk but. his is bound to happen when you fight people who's stats are all at 50. :\
And the stamina recover on Grass crest is pretty... slow... Blossoms are probably the best source of stam recovery in the game.
You essentially have the perfect character who can use any weapon they want at any time.
And when I was still playing on box I got a dialog tree with him where he talked about Patches and he was asking if I had seen someone named patches. I hadn't seen patches at the time so... there was nothing for me to say.
And the stamina recover on Grass crest is pretty... slow... Blossoms are probably the best source of stam recovery in the game.
You essentially have the perfect character who can use any weapon they want at any time.
And when I was still playing on box I got a dialog tree with him where he talked about Patches and he was asking if I had seen someone named patches. I hadn't seen patches at the time so... there was nothing for me to say.
Mmmm i usually skip the depths unless i want the ember, but i always turn around on that later. But by then i already opened the gates to sens fortress and lautrec is gone by then.
My pally is coming along properly. And i decided to aim for NG7. The cap of it all. Right now im in 5 i think. And i still have 380 levels to go =)
My pally is coming along properly. And i decided to aim for NG7. The cap of it all. Right now im in 5 i think. And i still have 380 levels to go =)
mmmmmmmm interesting
both flames controlled, one that controls the flame of light while the other ( the player ) controls the flame of dark
i have read everything and i can say that i can agree
solaire seems to be a strong guy, even his armor says that there is no bonuss using this meaning that he is indeed real strong, and this can mean that he is able to control the flame, which is something that he is familiarized.
in the other hand, the player or the choosen of the undead, has more interaction with the black flame, which in other words it's the humanity, and having a big time using the humanity allows him to control the humanity in a better way than any other could have, resulting him in the shepherd of humanity and darkess
mmmm i guess i'm right but if something seems "out of place" tell me
both flames controlled, one that controls the flame of light while the other ( the player ) controls the flame of dark
i have read everything and i can say that i can agree
solaire seems to be a strong guy, even his armor says that there is no bonuss using this meaning that he is indeed real strong, and this can mean that he is able to control the flame, which is something that he is familiarized.
in the other hand, the player or the choosen of the undead, has more interaction with the black flame, which in other words it's the humanity, and having a big time using the humanity allows him to control the humanity in a better way than any other could have, resulting him in the shepherd of humanity and darkess
mmmm i guess i'm right but if something seems "out of place" tell me
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