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I never really understood why "people eating fried chicken and watermelon" is supposedly racist if the people shown doing it are black.
That's bullshit. Fried chicken is delicious. Watermelon is delicious (if a bit messy). Everybody should eat some. Why is it racist if it's black folks eating it, but not, say, Mexicans or Scotsmen or Koreans or Norwegians or whatever?
That's bullshit. Fried chicken is delicious. Watermelon is delicious (if a bit messy). Everybody should eat some. Why is it racist if it's black folks eating it, but not, say, Mexicans or Scotsmen or Koreans or Norwegians or whatever?
The cops eating donuts thing comes from...well, cops eating donuts. When they are on patrol, they can go 12 hour shifts without any kind of real break. They can't really take a proper scheduled half hour break because if the shit hits the fan they are going to have a more difficult time waiting for a check at the restaurant before they run out the door to respond to a stabbing or robbery or some other code 3 incident that needs immediate attention. Thus why many officers, particularly in large cities where they are going to be called on frequently during a shift, favor fast food and such.
This USED to be why you would frequently find police officers at donut shops, back before drive through were popular and most food catering places were sit down. It's fast, cheap, has coffee, and they can leave in a hurry if they are called away. Now adays your more common to find them in coffee shops, star bucks, fast food restaurants, diners, and other fast service places while on duty. Even cops need to eat on a 12 hour shift, but they need to be available to drop everything on a dime and respond if something bad hits the fan.
Jasiven gives a much better description of the black racism thing. Short version, chicken stemmed from the KKK propaganda film "Birth of a Nation." Watermelon is because of how you eat it. It's messy, you eat it with your hands. Blacks were uncultured swine, so it made sense that they would enjoy that sort of food. Thus the stereotypes.
This USED to be why you would frequently find police officers at donut shops, back before drive through were popular and most food catering places were sit down. It's fast, cheap, has coffee, and they can leave in a hurry if they are called away. Now adays your more common to find them in coffee shops, star bucks, fast food restaurants, diners, and other fast service places while on duty. Even cops need to eat on a 12 hour shift, but they need to be available to drop everything on a dime and respond if something bad hits the fan.
Jasiven gives a much better description of the black racism thing. Short version, chicken stemmed from the KKK propaganda film "Birth of a Nation." Watermelon is because of how you eat it. It's messy, you eat it with your hands. Blacks were uncultured swine, so it made sense that they would enjoy that sort of food. Thus the stereotypes.
The below comes from here: http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi.....type-come-from
"chickens had long been a part of Southern diets, but they had particular utility for slaves. They were cheap, easy to feed and a good source of meat.
But then, Schmidt says, came Birth of a Nation.
D.W. Griffith's seminal and supremely racist 1915 silent movie about the supposedly heroic founding of the Ku Klux Klan was a huge sensation when it debuted. One scene in the three-hor features a group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.
"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.
Schmidt said that like watermelon, that other food that's been a mainstay in racist depictions of blacks, chicken was also a good vehicle for racism because of the way people eat it. (According to government stats, blacks are underrepresented among watermelon consumers.) "It's a food you eat with your hands, and therefore it's dirty," Schmidt said. "Table manners are a way of determining who is worthy of respect or not."
But why does this idea still hold traction, since fried chicken is clearly a staple of the American diet? Surely, KFC, Popeyes and Church's ain't national chains — and chicken and waffles aren't a brunch staple — because of the supposed culinary obsessions of black folks.
"It's still a way to express racial [contempt] without getting into serious trouble," Schmidt said."
______________
That about cover it?
"chickens had long been a part of Southern diets, but they had particular utility for slaves. They were cheap, easy to feed and a good source of meat.
But then, Schmidt says, came Birth of a Nation.
D.W. Griffith's seminal and supremely racist 1915 silent movie about the supposedly heroic founding of the Ku Klux Klan was a huge sensation when it debuted. One scene in the three-hor features a group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.
"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.
Schmidt said that like watermelon, that other food that's been a mainstay in racist depictions of blacks, chicken was also a good vehicle for racism because of the way people eat it. (According to government stats, blacks are underrepresented among watermelon consumers.) "It's a food you eat with your hands, and therefore it's dirty," Schmidt said. "Table manners are a way of determining who is worthy of respect or not."
But why does this idea still hold traction, since fried chicken is clearly a staple of the American diet? Surely, KFC, Popeyes and Church's ain't national chains — and chicken and waffles aren't a brunch staple — because of the supposed culinary obsessions of black folks.
"It's still a way to express racial [contempt] without getting into serious trouble," Schmidt said."
______________
That about cover it?
Not only that, but getting African Americans to see chicken and watermelons as a racist thing itself enforced white supremacy because the whole reason those foods were popular among black folks of that era is because chickens and watermelons are cheap and easy to grow compared to many other sources of meat and fruit, so poor folks of all races ate them a lot. The whole point of turning it into a racist stereotype was to shame black folks into abandoning a effective way to feed themselves.
There was a gag in "Sanford and Son" once that, as a kid, flew over my head, about Fred asking Lamont if he wanted "the neck or the back". Being a white kid, I'd never seen a chicken neck cooked -ever-, and I got stuck with the back often enough that I knew it was about the worst portion available; practically no meat, all bone. It stuck in my head: why would anybody take EITHER option? Only when I grew up and began realizing that racial prejudice and injustice hadn't magically evaporated in 1971 did I figure it out: the joke was, the Sanfords couldn't afford drumsticks, breasts or even thighs. Not even wings, which have barely any more meat than backs.
So, basically, African-Americans ate what white people were too good to soil themselves by consuming, and then got mocked for it. And, apparently, still do today.
So, basically, African-Americans ate what white people were too good to soil themselves by consuming, and then got mocked for it. And, apparently, still do today.
The comments section of a Zootopia* comic page probably isn't the best place for a full treatise on the subject (though there are plenty of explanatory links out there), but the long-story-short version of it is that after the Civil War, raising and cooking/selling chickens and growing watermelons were common businesses for newly-freed slaves. Startup was cheap, you didn't need a whole lot of equipment or training, and you always had customers. Southerners who took issue with African-Americans being able to financially fend for themselves started something not unlike a propaganda campaign arbitrarily stigmatizing eating fried chicken and watermelons just to mock them for trying to make a living and discourage white customers from supporting them. That wound up turning 'black people like fried chicken and watermelon' into part of a larger racist caricature.
The More You Know...
*-- Well, on reflection, maybe a Zootopia comic is a vaguely-appropriate place to discuss racial stereotyping if you think about it...
The More You Know...
*-- Well, on reflection, maybe a Zootopia comic is a vaguely-appropriate place to discuss racial stereotyping if you think about it...
and EVERYONE not only missed the half-ref, but COMPLETELY missed it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgRCuxA6KMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgRCuxA6KMY
I believe there were statements from the creative team that they not only stuck with mammals for people, but also avoided domestic species and omnivores in order to maintain the predator/prey motif.
Of course chickens are a domesticated species, but if they're being farmed/ranched that would actually fit.
Of course chickens are a domesticated species, but if they're being farmed/ranched that would actually fit.
Some of that is a matter of interpretation.
IIRC, we didn't see any pets or farm animals. I don't even remember pigeons in the city. Were there any birds in the sky at all?
Pigs are technically omnivores, but are usually seen as herbivores and thus prey. (And the proper term is probably "boar" or "peccary" as those are their wild forms. Yes, sheep can be wild, too, although like the pig I'm not sure they used the proper designs for them.)
IIRC, we didn't see any pets or farm animals. I don't even remember pigeons in the city. Were there any birds in the sky at all?
Pigs are technically omnivores, but are usually seen as herbivores and thus prey. (And the proper term is probably "boar" or "peccary" as those are their wild forms. Yes, sheep can be wild, too, although like the pig I'm not sure they used the proper designs for them.)
One thing that bugs me...they have bread products. Like the bun on their bug burgas. So where do they get the milk and eggs for the bread from? Is there some cultural taboo about eating cheese because it's made from mammals? Or do they treat it like sheep wool with clothes and just assume it's fine because no mammal died making it?
Well, considering a mixed species (and fur bearing) society would probably have a lot more differences from ours than anything shown, we're going to have to assume that there are equivalents or substitutes.
Chickens and other birds (eggs) aren't mammals, and cows are domesticated (milk, leather), so by the standards established by the writers those could easily be available from farmed, non-sapient animals.
Chickens and other birds (eggs) aren't mammals, and cows are domesticated (milk, leather), so by the standards established by the writers those could easily be available from farmed, non-sapient animals.
Making bread doesn't actually require milk and eggs. All it really needs is some sort of flour, water, and - preferred, but not really necessary - a leavening agent of some sort.
I've made biscuits with just flour, water, and baking powder. They're bland that way, but serve perfectly well as an agent for transporting butter or jam.
I've made biscuits with just flour, water, and baking powder. They're bland that way, but serve perfectly well as an agent for transporting butter or jam.
This reminds me of an episode of Feasting on Asphalt where Alton Brown finds the best fried chicken he's ever had. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTAywgaJyD4
I tend to think a bit different than most about stuff. :P
To me, eating meat or even having predatory instincts in the world of Zootopia doesn't make any sense. Yes, I can imagine the aggression and superior physical aspects of being a *former* predator... but 'prey' types can and are just as aggressive between each other, and predators would have had to EVOLVE away from eating prey or they could never really co-exist; the urge to eat your neighbor would rise to a point where you'd lose it and have to be captured and jailed.
Also there's the simple concept that predators tend to be carnivores... meaning they CAN'T really eat other than meat in a lot of cases. The few omnivorous types would have it easier... but still struggle too much for that society or this relationship.
Lastly, the concept of being able to eat the flesh of a chicken in a world where everyone is now an anthro-cized, sentient being brings to mind horrifying images of whole villages of families of intelligent chickens being raised and as slaves and forced to breed, only to be slaughtered mercilessly to feed some underhanded pred's desire for meat... and that just clashes a bit TOO hard with the image the movie placed in my mind.
To me, eating meat or even having predatory instincts in the world of Zootopia doesn't make any sense. Yes, I can imagine the aggression and superior physical aspects of being a *former* predator... but 'prey' types can and are just as aggressive between each other, and predators would have had to EVOLVE away from eating prey or they could never really co-exist; the urge to eat your neighbor would rise to a point where you'd lose it and have to be captured and jailed.
Also there's the simple concept that predators tend to be carnivores... meaning they CAN'T really eat other than meat in a lot of cases. The few omnivorous types would have it easier... but still struggle too much for that society or this relationship.
Lastly, the concept of being able to eat the flesh of a chicken in a world where everyone is now an anthro-cized, sentient being brings to mind horrifying images of whole villages of families of intelligent chickens being raised and as slaves and forced to breed, only to be slaughtered mercilessly to feed some underhanded pred's desire for meat... and that just clashes a bit TOO hard with the image the movie placed in my mind.
Pretty much my own thoughts on the matter, though foxes(if not most canids) are omnivorous.
Agree that the concept of that sort of thing would be horrifying. Although, and I'll say this at the risk of being ostracized for having an...unpopular view(not that populism means anything to me)...but its not really far off from our present-day reality(granted, real chickens aren't anthropomorphic, though definitely sentient.) to the point that people tend to window dress that industry with pretty words(cage free and the like.)
I could honestly go on for awhile about the fucked up things our kind does on a day to day basis. But I guess I'll just sum it up with a phrase:
Human or non-human, Call no creature happy, till he is dead.
Agree that the concept of that sort of thing would be horrifying. Although, and I'll say this at the risk of being ostracized for having an...unpopular view(not that populism means anything to me)...but its not really far off from our present-day reality(granted, real chickens aren't anthropomorphic, though definitely sentient.) to the point that people tend to window dress that industry with pretty words(cage free and the like.)
I could honestly go on for awhile about the fucked up things our kind does on a day to day basis. But I guess I'll just sum it up with a phrase:
Human or non-human, Call no creature happy, till he is dead.
Read it during my freshman year. One of the more interesting example of satire I've seen over the years. Not unlike Mark Twain's Man Is The Lowest Animal(which actually does have some truth to it.)
I just tend to keep it situation in practices as opposed to works of literature(rare for me, considering my own love for literature.)
I just tend to keep it situation in practices as opposed to works of literature(rare for me, considering my own love for literature.)
This almost starts to look like that dystopian place called "Australia" which is a "Peaceful civilisation of vegan hunter gatherers" and "Milk is illegal."
http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/faq.htm
http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/faq.htm
Well from what I saw in the movie there are no insect,arachnid, fish, avian or reptile anthros so all are valid food sources without the problem of being considerd a cannibalism of sort. (not sure what the word for eating a species on the same thinking level as you is)
only mammals are sophonts? in zootopia. and as to fried chicken . yes its a poor steriotype. as a caucasian tho. i love fried chicken when i get it, aswell as delux mac an cheese. watermelons lovely if its not a grainy textured personal sized one.and koolaid is great, grape or oherwise
Your friend has his terminology wrong.
"Sushi" just means it's wrapped/rolled/packed in/with rice, no meat required. "Sashimi" is the stuff made with (usually) seafood, but the meat has been prepared even if it's not been heated (the usual meaning of "cooked"); while typically it also includes rice it doesn't have to.
It's not to everyone's taste. The world would be boring if it were.
"Sushi" just means it's wrapped/rolled/packed in/with rice, no meat required. "Sashimi" is the stuff made with (usually) seafood, but the meat has been prepared even if it's not been heated (the usual meaning of "cooked"); while typically it also includes rice it doesn't have to.
It's not to everyone's taste. The world would be boring if it were.
I'm sitting here thinking about whether Nick would actually eat chicken after what Byron Howard said, and then considering whether it's legal in the city/country and how common all the various diets are and how big the industry for supplements is. I love this movie. (And this comic too of course.)
Great range of faces on Nick there Eric. The nose boop moment is especially adorable.
If by some co-incidence those beaver workmen from Zootopia's wet cement scene are in the sushi restaurant at the same time as Judy then she wont feel alone as the only small, long-incisorred mammal eating fish.
If by some co-incidence those beaver workmen from Zootopia's wet cement scene are in the sushi restaurant at the same time as Judy then she wont feel alone as the only small, long-incisorred mammal eating fish.
Oh Glory. I made uf a list of the Kitune's food allergies, her likes and dislikes. Fried chicken is at the top of the 'likes' column. Usually, with food that she particularly likes as with Chinese (she likes Schezwan) she's as dainty and reserved as can be. There's a place near her condo that makes excellent fried chicken (not the Southern fried kernel kind) and it's like watching an otter tearing into a feesh. Stay the heck out of her way until she's done.
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