Eliminate the bullies and tyrants, large and small, of all stripes and you'd be off to a good start, anyhow...

the problem becomes who decides who the bullies are. they in turn become a bully.

Never said it'd be easy. But, here's a good start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-a.....sion_principle

Anybody initiating force, no matter how noble the aim, is in the wrong. At that point, returning force with force is acceptable behavior.

That sounds like a Star Trek Episode, where everyone who has a violent thought gets weak and suffers pain.
Conditioning the people to be afraid to think violent thoughts.

No, that's mind control. But, if a bully starts something, you finish them.

So basically we shouldn't strive to improve things for anybody because everyone is different? We should just accept suffering and injustice?

I didn't say you couldn't improve things but it will never be a utopia, the most we can achieve realistically is pleasing the majority in a society.
But what happens to those left out unwanted or against the norms, do they get pushed out into another city or land or outright executed?

What is Injustice especially if you are an outsider?
If a Western Man discovers a village who has drastically different beliefs like sacrifice or wife as property is it his right to shatter all of that destroying a culture that was happy among their own until outsiders came telling them that they are bad and unjust?

I think like a Utopia, Justice depends on the ones directing it.
Life is Unfair and we just have to deal with it the best we can.
Making a perfect world will never happen but that doesn't mean we can't try to make it a better place.

this I agree with

Thank you

You are being incredibly nihilist, within our society people are facing great injustice and to invalidate that by saying "everyone is different" and leaving it at that only serves to let it keep happening.

"I don't like that society-wide injustice still exists, but I refuse to lift a finger to help alleviate it a little bit, because that's against the laws of nature and/or morally wrong".

Unless one is very, very careful, there's usually only a step away from there to "and every one of the people who do want to do something about it is defying the laws of nature and/or morality", and even shorter from there to "and my duty is to confront and eventually defeat or destroy those people".

...ok?

Sorry - that was meant to agree with you.

gotcha

ah utopia...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar.....ans-180954423/

Sadly as much as I'd want "utopia"...

I'm thinking since we are limited by a number of contacts (150 or so, I can't remember the guy's name...) I think there CAN be multiple "utopias" ala the venus project...

https://www.thevenusproject.com/

ultimately, we as humans NEED SOME struggle...

I imagine it as a CORRECTED crapitslism where we have the "monkey on our backs (responsibilities/work/risks/etc) holding a carrot on a stick" (risks reward/s) with out the endemic slavery of the current shit-stems...*Skowl*

Hmmm heard about the Mouse Utopia project, I think humans would end up even worse than Rats or Mice.
We have very bad habits that show up when we have no rules or limits to excess.

Humans like any animal need a predator but since we destroyed anything nature had against us besides disease we are our own predators. Humans are our own worst enemy without an outside threat like another tribe or dangerous animals. I think this is one of the reasons we will never be rid of violence or tribalism.

We still have a long way to climb to even think about creating a Utopia.

And with the "Nobalist" of goals, we ascend not to utopia, but decend into the DYSTOPIA we find our society falling into.
--Rick

Not sure if it was Nobel, when such profits have been made off lying

Thus the use of quote marks. Sarcasm is hard enough in text Subtle Sarcasm needs a bit of a nudge from time to time.

Ohh, I like deeper thinking thoughts like this, thanks for sharing!

If I may also share some thoughts?
I believe you are right; nobody can create a perfect utopia, because, as you imply; Who is the utopia -really- for? No place on this planet will ever be a true paradise, because there will always be someone who doesn’t like it, or even hates it with a passion.

The closest thing I can think of, is more akin to a sanctuary. Say like, making a room in your house, or finding a place that brings you a feeling of comfort and peace, and using that space to be where you ‘unwind’. Its not a utopia for civilization, but it’s can still be ‘your paradise’ if you allow it. Just a thought, if you feel overwhelmed, sometimes it helps to think of smaller goals, heh.

In another vein of thought, I also dont believe any utopia is ever truly possible in our lives. Im a Christian, and we believe that, even in the beginning, when God created a true paradise, Satan led humanity to fall because of his jealousy and pride. He was a beautiful cherub that couldnt stand that humans had something that he didn’t, and started the chaos that we live in on a daily basis. It shows that, no matter what you try to do, someone, somewhere, will not like your idea of a perfect society.
So with that in mind; Why worry about it? You should work towards a goal that will make you happy, that doesnt operate at the expense of others. I personally try to live with people by the golden rule ‘Treat others how you would like to be treated’. Now, if only everyone could live by that too, haha.

Nice points and comment,

Yeah building out own oasis is about the best we can do, along with helping your neighbors if they need or ask.
The golden rule is one of the best applications of Humanity we have thought of. However it should be tempered with wisdom when people try and take advantage.

Very well said, I am reminded of some advice my grandfather gave me when very young... " Never attempt to appeal to a person's better nature, they may not have one."
Lead by example, inspire others to do better, help your neighbors to learn to become focused on self reliance. For when you are prepared, you shall not fear.
I find it is all about building local community for many hands make light work. Look for examples like the Amish, the Mennonites, and the Mormons. They have each embraced a safe reliant world view it may be in a religious framework, but "Learning by example" can have some very beneficial results.

The Mormons for example donate hundreds of tons of food, clothing and other disaster relief supply all over the world to NON MORMONS each year. They can be a model of self sufficiency for any community to study for it is a model that WORKS. Does it need a religious component, Perhaps. As they were one of the most persecuted religious groups in this country that went on to thrive in some of the most inhospitable parts of the country ( the great salt lake basin desert)
Consider it something to ponder as we continue to fall on hard times.

--Rick

Religion may have to be a part of it, or some form of strong Nationalism that can bond everyone under one banner.
I have no idea what one of course but that feeling of belonging and faith in your group or church might be required.
This however will isolate the group into it's own small ideal community which actually may be best compared to what we have seen
in giant cities.

Humans don't work well in giant numbers close together like we have in the larger cities, not from what I have seen in my life that is.

Indeed as Tommy Lee Jones said in MIB: "humans in large groups are a bunch of dumb, stupid panicky animals."

The "Mouse Utopia" experiment was rather telling with it's parallel to human behavior. One reason I got far from the big city and into a nice quiet rural farming community! Folks here are friendly, with a strong sense of community and lending a hand. Once in a while I will be pulled into a conversation and asked things like... "Hey, you lived in seattle, what's up with those folks rioting?" Simple answer; "City People" more astute answer: "Folks are stacked on top of each other and it can take a toll on your well being."

(These folks don't need a 45 minute lecture on the vagaries of so called "Social Justice" there is only "Justice" it does Not need a modifyer.)

You are correct! A sense of belonging can be essential in hard times.
Groups tend to be stronger, more cohesive and resilient when organized around common core principles. The main point I was trying to emphasize was the importance of building community that will encourage continued survival in the face of disaster be it natural, environmental, or economic. Just don't try and go it alone (Know how to survive, and you can teach those skills to others) which is why you need to learn skills that can benefit your group or community. Before the need arises!
Wow, such a heavy topic, I like it! It gives folks a chance to share and ponder some of the more meaningful subjects.

--Rick