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Inherit the Bullshit
16 years ago
General
Here's what really chaps my furry butt: this weekend as I was driving home from Half/Price Books (I was selling more of my treasured art-books and graphic novels because I'm broke again *sigh*)--anyway, as I was on my way home I passed a large demonstration on all four corners of a major intersection of men, women and worse yet, children, all smiling and waving and flourishing the same sign--"Reject Ref. 71, Protect Families. Marriage = One Man & One Woman"
For anyone who doesn't know, Ref. 71 is on the ballot to uphold Domestic Partnership laws. It makes it possible for gay couples to have many of the rights that married couples have--except being "allowed" to legally refer to their relationship as a "marriage", but that's a different debate. the point is, because of domestic partnership laws, many of my friends who are in non-LITB (Leave-It-To-Beaver) relationship are able to cover a partner under their insurance, or inherit, or become the legal parent of their child if something should happen to the biological parent...that sort of thing. The kind of thing that helps families, and doesn't do a single, solitary thing to hurt any straight, "married" family. At all. Period.
This is why I was annoyed to see these people, with their children in tow, standing on the street corners with their big smiles masking their hate-filled and bigoted agenda. And I'll wager that every single one of them was a Christian. Why do I think so? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that every time I see a group trying to malign or tear down progressive legislation that in any way benefits gay citizens (and by benefit I mean merely that it corrects some injustice or inequality--NOT conferring "special rights" as Conservatives tend to mislabel it), there is ALWAYS a Church leader or official organizing it. Whenever I hear about the State Congress listening to testimony against gay rights laws, it's ALWAYS "Reverend" or "Pastor" Somebody or another.
And so, here these people were, with signs (probably bought by the $200,000 an Evangelical organization donated to the "Oppose Ref. 71" group) teaching their children that people who don't conform to 1950's sit-com domestic ideal are inherently evil and that their feelings for one another are sick and wrong. That those families aren't real families and don't deserve to benefit from the privileged status of a "normal" family. Passing on to the next generation their bigotry and bile because it's something they don't understand and if they can't understand it, it must be evil.
Thanks a whole fucking bunch, you ultra-conservative Christian boobs! (With apologies to the many Christians out there who are not ignorant and too blinded by their own beliefs to allow others the privilege of thinking for themselves.)
For anyone who doesn't know, Ref. 71 is on the ballot to uphold Domestic Partnership laws. It makes it possible for gay couples to have many of the rights that married couples have--except being "allowed" to legally refer to their relationship as a "marriage", but that's a different debate. the point is, because of domestic partnership laws, many of my friends who are in non-LITB (Leave-It-To-Beaver) relationship are able to cover a partner under their insurance, or inherit, or become the legal parent of their child if something should happen to the biological parent...that sort of thing. The kind of thing that helps families, and doesn't do a single, solitary thing to hurt any straight, "married" family. At all. Period.
This is why I was annoyed to see these people, with their children in tow, standing on the street corners with their big smiles masking their hate-filled and bigoted agenda. And I'll wager that every single one of them was a Christian. Why do I think so? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that every time I see a group trying to malign or tear down progressive legislation that in any way benefits gay citizens (and by benefit I mean merely that it corrects some injustice or inequality--NOT conferring "special rights" as Conservatives tend to mislabel it), there is ALWAYS a Church leader or official organizing it. Whenever I hear about the State Congress listening to testimony against gay rights laws, it's ALWAYS "Reverend" or "Pastor" Somebody or another.
And so, here these people were, with signs (probably bought by the $200,000 an Evangelical organization donated to the "Oppose Ref. 71" group) teaching their children that people who don't conform to 1950's sit-com domestic ideal are inherently evil and that their feelings for one another are sick and wrong. That those families aren't real families and don't deserve to benefit from the privileged status of a "normal" family. Passing on to the next generation their bigotry and bile because it's something they don't understand and if they can't understand it, it must be evil.
Thanks a whole fucking bunch, you ultra-conservative Christian boobs! (With apologies to the many Christians out there who are not ignorant and too blinded by their own beliefs to allow others the privilege of thinking for themselves.)
one of the reasons i hate religion is how hateful people can be towards differences
if it makes you feel any better i got my right wing christian homophobic mom to vote yes on Ref. 71 because she couldnt understand what it ment on the ballot
It's not even about marriage, which shoots down their shitty signs or arguements, it's BASIC FUCKING RIGHTS. No one does it say MARRIAGE.
Fucking dumbfucks. The world would be better if the whole lot of them were executed. Damn I'm pissed.
But it will never stop boggling my mind.
That is why you will never understand them, you are USING your mind,.
Memes of mythos and legend which have had dozens of generations to evolve and become competitive are very, very formidable foes. The best you can do is use sound logic and reasoning and simply accept that some people will not listen to reason, and move on to the next group hoping that they will. Religion will never be eradicated, it seems that human beings have a proclivity for creating memes of faith and belief for a multitude of purposes - even if you destroy all of the current memes, some new ones would likely come up and start evolving. And why would you want to anyway? It's the militants and fundamentalists that make all the others look bad or even intolerable. I have to admit myself to a certain intrigue and romantic sort of wonderlust with regards to the idea of Pantheism - the idea that the universe itself is, in a sense, God. Not any specific God or even a "being" per se, just that existence itself is so grandiose, so limitless and vast that there is no other way to explain it or think about it other than as "God".
If you have any serious interest in the topic, I might suggest books by Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchins (who are collectively and humorously known to Christians as "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse", lol). There are also some interesting and compelling fictional reads in the last decade or so which feature freethinking and atheism (or at the very least agnosticism) as core principles which get explored or contemplated in varying ways. Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" series is an excellent example - a hefty mix of fantasy and steampunk with countless free-thinking experiments in an endless expanse of parallel dimensions. =)
I think the reason Dawkin's "abuse campaign" fails is because he does not have the backing of enough people. If we were more aggressive, unified, and unafraid to be vicious in our criticisms, we might get through. It might also help if there weren't limits on our free speech. I can make a post about the child-rape practices of the Catholic church but where shall I put it without worrying about being prosecuted for hate speech?
Our only options are to campaign OR attempt curtailing people's freedom. The latter only works if the people are cowed by fear (see patriot act) and the former will only work if we are unified.
But it does disturb me that religions that were about treating each other fairly and honestly are espousing crap like preventing gays from having the same benefits in marriage as straights. Repulsive, and it breaks a lot of their stated tenets. Amazes me they don't see it.
And Buddhists are just neat, as are the Taoists- many of them would even deny the "religion" label, too.
I don't always respect the beliefs, either, though I often find myself respecting some of the believers for their devotion- the ones who actually live by their faith's tenets, that is. I wish there were more than the few I've met...
Personally, I can't imagine how anyone can ignore how amazing this world is and that we should be doing everything to preserve it. Science only points that out all the stronger for me. We know so little, and yet, what we do know is so ... wow. Hubble, anyone?
Yeah. I figure when we have a star-spanning "empire" we'll make Earth a museum. *chuckles*
Dissing my favourite orbital observatory- the nerve!
*giggle*
And what tiny bit I know about Chandrasekhar makes me think he was so underrated as a mathematician- that guy was fuggin' brilliant, from what I hear.
Religion has absolutely nothing to do with whether two grown consenting adults love each other and wish to marry. These people need to get their bloated empty bigoted heads out of their collective tight wad asses. But we all know THAT will never happen.
And they really need to stop brainwashing their kids and allow them to think and learn for themselves. But we all know THAT will never happen either.
It does however have a deeply entrenched hatred for the concept of two adult members of the same sex wedding each other.
=^.,.^=
=^.,.^=
it is also my whole issue with the term 'gay"
gay refers to the sexuality of an individual, who the fuck is anyone to tell a person what they can or cannot do in there own bedroom.
and with these politicians listning to ministers and reverends, it sorta defeats the whole "seperation of church and state" thing in my eyes.
when the roman catholic church i was a preist at, found out that i was gay they excommunicated me, and barred be from being a preist of the catholic church.
that dosen't change the fact that i am still a preist but me being the target of such a "hate' crime, gave me much more respect for the rights of gays, lesbians and so forth.
the fact that parents can get there children into such situations as protesting on street corners, shows extreamly bad judgement and parrenting skills from the parents themselves.
ill never understand humanitys inhumanity towards humanity.
Seriously--you were really a priest? Wow--that's pretty intense. Have you given up "The Church" altogether, or did you just leave behind the vestments? Sorry to be nosy...just interested.
If you are Catholic, you can still stay a Catholic, too.
My question: were you really a Catholic Priest?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm
I think what you are describing is actually more in line with libertarianism than general conservatism. Unfortunately, the mainstream conservative movement was hijacked by religious fundamentalists around the 1970's...so much of what constitutes the Republican party's demographic today actually ARE Neo-Cons, who pretend to be upholding the traditional conservative values when in reality they are twisting the GOP into something that would be completely unrecognizable if you compared it to the Party's actually foundation. I'm a "liberal" personally but I don't think all conservatives are ignorant...many are just loyal to a party that is not what it used to be and since many people don't pay all that much attention to politics anyway, its inevitable that this slow take-over of the GOP has gone largely unnoticed even by people within the party.
On a lighter note, Half Price Books is an awesome store.
The other things you listed are considered hate crimes, really not the same sort of thing at all, but then again, if it's not inhibiting someone elses life, liberty, or ability to pursue happiness, where's the crime? If someone was burning a picture of a white, hispanic, or asian man, would you find that equally offensive?
As far as I can tell no one else is facing these problems, last time I checked everyone regardless of the colour of their skin, the language they speak, the country they grew up in/live in, is allowed to legally marry one way or another (Unless of course, they're gay).
That's what this whole thing, this whole argument is about -HATE-. They hate people who are gay and they're doing everything in their power to make sure we're not treated the same way they are, like humans.
And you say it's about hate, and you're partly right, there is a lot of hate, but that's not what it's about. Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of hate coming from both sides.
The State has no place in my personal, private vows to someone I love, and vice-versa. Nor should "couples" receive any special privileges or rights that ANY two people shouldn't be able to establish by personal covenant. For fuck's sake, let's stop continuing down this path of obscurity and exception-based laws and just simplify everything from the top-down. =P Make equal human rights really and truly equal.
Truthfully, there is a flaw with homosexuality. Homosexual couples do not produce children; children are the future of this world. Sorry, I agree with the supposed Christians, homosexual couples should not recieve benefits. I do not want homosexuality to become an acceptable and beneficial thing. The U.S. needs children damnit!
What's even funnier is that the Constitution mentions that and also mentions freedom of religion... but Christianity is used all over in the state, even in the National Anthem.
Right now, the state is full of contradictions... and it's a fight both sides are fighting hard for. It's hard to tell at this point who's going to win... the Church or the people.
Still. It's just horrifying to me, how conservatives act sometimes. There's certainly no fiscally conservative reason for it, and there's not even a religious justification for this homophobic crap (there's, let's see, one line in Leviticus, which the Christians don't consider valid thanks to Jesus' coming traditionally, which is arguably about unprotected anal sex, and lost in a deluge of other biblical comments - among which "be nice to the stranger in your camp" gets repeated frequently). If the religious folks feel their god is so great and so innately lovable, then why don't they trust him to sway "evil sinners" over to his side on their own, and stop trying to force their views on all of us?
All the conservative big-ticket social agenda items seem to be about this pointless distraction from the real problems in America; I think it's just a smokescreen to keep people upset over Queers (it's Queers today, it was Latinos a while back, and secular humanism is always a popular target, a few decades back it was black people) instead of the stuff they should be worried about. The environment, the schools, the roads, health care, the well-being of the elderly, when our guys are going to get back from Iraq, all that stuff. It truly upsets me that none of the conservative rank-and-file ever see just how badly they're being manipulated and used while they're mistreating their fellow citizens and sabotaging their own community.
Also, I've read that particular mention supposedly about homosexuality in Leviticus, and frankly I think it means nothing of the sort. I think it's an injunction against men raping their captured opponents in battle. In effect it's an order to respect your fallen enemy enough not to reduce him to the status of a mere woman. Of course...that's only from reading the King James version. God only knows what the Hebrew text originally said. But we know that women weren't exactly held up as equal in society. Oh, and by the way--even if it was an outright injunction against men fornicating with one another, it doesn't say a damn thing about women, but they lump the lesbians in with us boy-fags anyway.
HOWEVER, all of that is entirely beside the point, since I don't happen to believe that the Bible is the literal "Word of God" anyway. It is a book of mythology, with some history, poetry, some tips and advice on civilized behavior and even outright fairy stories in it. It has no more credibility to me than the Egyptian Book of the Dead or the mythologies of the Greek or Celtic gods. Whether or not there is any such entity as "God", the Christian and Hebrew and Muslim Scriptures are nothing but written-down-superstitions as far as I can see. And my opinion is every bit as valid as George W. Bush's or Billy Graham's. That is why I get so frustrated with the whole issue of these Evangelical can artists trying to foist their bullshit on our government. I don't want laws that I am forced to live by to be based on arbitrary, superstitious and entirely unprovable and irrelevant dogmatic nonsense!
Wow...I really didn't intend to write another whole rant here. Sorry.
What baffles me is how people can call themselves american citizens when they are willing to take away the same rights they themselves enjoy from another american citizen. Gays, bisexuals, lesbians, etc who were born in this country automatically have the same rights as every other citizen who was born on this very same soil that we work so hard to protect and uphold. It makes me sick to look at these protesters parading their hate against other fucking american citizens. The very same people they depend upon to do their part to keep our country running, the very same people that protect us at home and abroad, the very same people that volunteer their hard work to keep us in our homes, keep us feed, spend the money that goes to our paychecks for service well done. It makes me want go into a fit of rage when I see american citizens hating other american citizens (you see my current theme here, yes?) simply for loving someone they do not approve of, for living their lives the way they see fit and not what the social norm us to be. It depresses the fuck out of me when I see these same hateful people pass their small minded views on to the next generation, and then ostracize them when those very children question them as to why the should hate others for reasons that in no way effect them. It makes me wonder about how great this country really is when it can not live up to it's own creeds: "Freedom and Liberty for all", "All men are created equal". And it makes me realize how much faith I have lost in humanity when I have to step outside, and see these same hateful things, over and over again, day after day, with only the slightest, optimistic glimmer of hope that the next time I walk out my door, thing will be even the slightest bit better for everyone.
*Hugs*
Then again, I'm of the opinion that the very problem is the fact that the government uses the term marriage. Any familial binding agreement carried out by a government body and not a religious one should be called civil union, regardless of the orientation of the couple. The word marriage should be nothing more than a word, with no legal meaning. This would remove a lot of the perceived clout that religious advocates throw around in this debate. Want to get married in your church? Whatever, go for it. Just don't expect any benefits until you've taken the trip to the courthouse. That's how I'd solve this abomination of a debate.
My contention is that homosexuality is as real and as "normal" as heterosexuality, just less prevalent (unfortunately making us a minority and putting us at a disadvantage in a democracy) and that any rights enjoyed by straight people are automatically OWED to gay people who are as legitimate a citizenry as anyone else!
When confronted by bigots that do not know the Bible that they quote broken sentences from, (ie quotations) I slap them down with truth and prove my point directly, with a 53rd Printing of a Bible Dictionary I have that states that a lay preacher in the 1840's in Massachusetts decided to reinterpret the Bible and stated this whole pile of crap about Homosexuality.
His name was A.S. Beale, and he was never ordained and had not even a BA in seminary. - So basically he is full of backwoods bullshit, and wanted to single out somebody easy since I guess there weren't any Jews or Catholics to persecute close by!
Neither the fable describing why the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, (They built their cities on top of a surface volcano vent that was due to erupt) the Apostle Peter nor the Apostle Paul had anything to say in regards to one man loving another man, or women loving each other as well, also Jesus Christ had nothing to say directly condemning anything of homosexual love between consenting adults.
I will go and my book in hand confront any idiot that thinks they can reinterpret any religious treatise into their own prejudicial view with 154 Phd's, Ma's and Ba's in multiple subjects of my dictionary pertaining to the Bible.
With this statement I will stand in someone's face and say; " If you don't know exactly what you are talking about then you are an anti-Christian and instead are a bigoted Satanist, so shut you mouth and sit down!"
All those people with their signs and their kids in tow are actually satanic prejudiced bigots, thinking themselves true and pure, the opposite is more true.