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Feedback to FA
2 years ago
General
(My feedback was too long for discord so I'm posting it here xD You can post yours as well in the next link https://discord.gg/fur-affinity https://discord.com/channels/991855.....85552111898664)
-To start with, I do prefer FA being marked as a +18 site and not normalizing it as a +13 site. Considering the amount of fetish content and "accidental" wrongly marked content that can be seen in the frontpage all the time.
-Hire/Train more staff of MPS: This announcement made that section become oversaturated with tickets to the point of getting copy/pasted responses without even reading the ticket.
That makes your users distrust and drop support towards your site.
-You really need visual guides with drawings made by the community to make it clear where do you draw the line with he last guideline update, taking in consideration different species and styles, for that reason you should communicate more with your community. Example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.....e_FA_guide.png (btw, when I submitted a ticket asking to point which would be banned, you just left a copy/paste and closed it) . A lot of people from the community would volunteer for that, me included even if I no longer draw NSFW.
-Decrease the offense level for content affected by the new guideline that has been posted before July 1st, 2023. It's very easy for users to forget about really old submissions, and the lack of a proper response from staff is not helping.
-Mentioning that minors can get involved in common fetishes such like vore and pregnancy, in a journal about "Minor Protective Issues", IS A TERRIBLE IDEA, and it baffles me you wrote that and thought it was ok to post it, showing a lack of review and missing the whole point of protecting minors. Making your users distrust you, making them leave and drop the support towards your site, which is valid, even I am not proud to show the badge I got from a discount.
-Using the excuse of "A good rule of thumb is children's cartoons. If something can be seen in Loony Tunes, for example, it's probably fine for the General rating." is not valid at all:
What children see in a TV, is very different from teenagers using a very sexual site/community where they can interact with anonymous people across the world with high risk of being groomed. Please do not normalize that.
-The next things shouldn't be marked as General since those are usually sexualized in FA: Common fetishes such like Vore (with internal shots, do-me-eyes, excess of fluids), diapers (even when not messy), Inflation, Hyper, Farting, Pics with high focus in feet, crotches and butts, hypnosis, bdsm, kidnapping (yes, I see that a lot in sfw mode). Visual guides as example: https://imgur.com/5j1wlHL https://imgur.com/h8sUC8e
-Harder punishment (lv3 or lv4 offence) to those who wrongly rate their mature/adult content in obvious ways: This is way more important and is a way more effective method to make people to take this rule more seriously. Specially on reminders, people tend to wrongly rate their stuff to be shown in the frontpage for everyone and get more views. When the reminder gets deleted, mods states "the content is no longer in our database, so action cannot be taken". So the lack of serious consequences, allows people abuse this loophole.
Reducing/Nullifying the NSFW exposure to minors is way more important and more effective way to protect them.
-Not letting minors upload photography: Minors are too innocent and less conscious of the dangers of exposing themselves, a photo of their face showing the place where they live is very dangerous and should be discouraged in this site. I have seen vulnerable neurodivergent minors posting selfies looking for someone to date (because their life makes them feel lonely), where they could be able to share contact info with adults being flirty with them, I even reported that and the ticket has fallen into blind eyes. https://www.furaffinity.net/control.....ticket/215794/
-Locking comments and notes on minors, and not allowing them to share contact info: That will reduce the risk of them getting in contact with predators. While they are in a safe enviroment where they can upload their artwork and grow their galleries.
-Increasing the staff members on "Rating" tickets: Because it takes months to take action making the team useless when people post nsfw reminders as general, or when people post nsfw marked as general so it appears in the frontpage, and then marks them as adult when their post aren't on frontpage anymore. And I think wrongly rated adult content requires a more inmediate action.
-Making informative journals about Grooming, Minor Protective Issues, and encourage reports when something is happening to a minor in the site.
-Making journals reminding users what should be rated as mature/adult. (The lack of journals creates a feeling of disconnection with your userbase)
-Add Pedophilia and Zoophilia in the 2.8 Code of Conduct.
If those changes were implemented, the userbase would take more seriously that you are doing this to protect minors in this site. And would decrease the hate against them and the staff. And would increase the support towards the site, I personally would donate way more.
Seriously I don't want to go to IB, as much very well designed is the site. I dislike the community and staff actions way more than I do here :,D
I appreciate and support the intention to make FA a safer place for minors, and I'm in favor with the new guidelines, that being said, there are more effective methods that causes less harm, trauma and anxiety to innocent users that doesn't even focus on cp and their source of income are commissions took from FA:-To start with, I do prefer FA being marked as a +18 site and not normalizing it as a +13 site. Considering the amount of fetish content and "accidental" wrongly marked content that can be seen in the frontpage all the time.
-Hire/Train more staff of MPS: This announcement made that section become oversaturated with tickets to the point of getting copy/pasted responses without even reading the ticket.
That makes your users distrust and drop support towards your site.
-You really need visual guides with drawings made by the community to make it clear where do you draw the line with he last guideline update, taking in consideration different species and styles, for that reason you should communicate more with your community. Example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.....e_FA_guide.png (btw, when I submitted a ticket asking to point which would be banned, you just left a copy/paste and closed it) . A lot of people from the community would volunteer for that, me included even if I no longer draw NSFW.
-Decrease the offense level for content affected by the new guideline that has been posted before July 1st, 2023. It's very easy for users to forget about really old submissions, and the lack of a proper response from staff is not helping.
-Seeing that you are going for the route to make it a site safe for all ages, you are failing and missing a lot of important points to make it safe. As I mentioned in previous tickets that felt it fell into blind eyes I will mention my proposals again:
(Tickets: https://www.furaffinity.net/control.....ticket/219439/ https://www.furaffinity.net/control.....ticket/227446/ )
-Mentioning that minors can get involved in common fetishes such like vore and pregnancy, in a journal about "Minor Protective Issues", IS A TERRIBLE IDEA, and it baffles me you wrote that and thought it was ok to post it, showing a lack of review and missing the whole point of protecting minors. Making your users distrust you, making them leave and drop the support towards your site, which is valid, even I am not proud to show the badge I got from a discount.
-Using the excuse of "A good rule of thumb is children's cartoons. If something can be seen in Loony Tunes, for example, it's probably fine for the General rating." is not valid at all:
What children see in a TV, is very different from teenagers using a very sexual site/community where they can interact with anonymous people across the world with high risk of being groomed. Please do not normalize that.
-The next things shouldn't be marked as General since those are usually sexualized in FA: Common fetishes such like Vore (with internal shots, do-me-eyes, excess of fluids), diapers (even when not messy), Inflation, Hyper, Farting, Pics with high focus in feet, crotches and butts, hypnosis, bdsm, kidnapping (yes, I see that a lot in sfw mode). Visual guides as example: https://imgur.com/5j1wlHL https://imgur.com/h8sUC8e
-Harder punishment (lv3 or lv4 offence) to those who wrongly rate their mature/adult content in obvious ways: This is way more important and is a way more effective method to make people to take this rule more seriously. Specially on reminders, people tend to wrongly rate their stuff to be shown in the frontpage for everyone and get more views. When the reminder gets deleted, mods states "the content is no longer in our database, so action cannot be taken". So the lack of serious consequences, allows people abuse this loophole.
Reducing/Nullifying the NSFW exposure to minors is way more important and more effective way to protect them.
-Not letting minors upload photography: Minors are too innocent and less conscious of the dangers of exposing themselves, a photo of their face showing the place where they live is very dangerous and should be discouraged in this site. I have seen vulnerable neurodivergent minors posting selfies looking for someone to date (because their life makes them feel lonely), where they could be able to share contact info with adults being flirty with them, I even reported that and the ticket has fallen into blind eyes. https://www.furaffinity.net/control.....ticket/215794/
-Locking comments and notes on minors, and not allowing them to share contact info: That will reduce the risk of them getting in contact with predators. While they are in a safe enviroment where they can upload their artwork and grow their galleries.
-Increasing the staff members on "Rating" tickets: Because it takes months to take action making the team useless when people post nsfw reminders as general, or when people post nsfw marked as general so it appears in the frontpage, and then marks them as adult when their post aren't on frontpage anymore. And I think wrongly rated adult content requires a more inmediate action.
-Making informative journals about Grooming, Minor Protective Issues, and encourage reports when something is happening to a minor in the site.
-Making journals reminding users what should be rated as mature/adult. (The lack of journals creates a feeling of disconnection with your userbase)
-Add Pedophilia and Zoophilia in the 2.8 Code of Conduct.
If those changes were implemented, the userbase would take more seriously that you are doing this to protect minors in this site. And would decrease the hate against them and the staff. And would increase the support towards the site, I personally would donate way more.
Seriously I don't want to go to IB, as much very well designed is the site. I dislike the community and staff actions way more than I do here :,D
Comment posting has been disabled by the journal owner.
Ib do realize this is manipulateable, but if it was like a shadow rule, not openly known or announced, then really only staff would know about it.
Idk. In just know as someone over 18, I don't really want to see minors stuff or interact with them and I don't want them to see my stuff or interact with me lol
another point is the idea that banning depictions of minors in certain situations will stop that from existing, take one look at the war on drugs and prohibition. your only going to bury it deeper where people cant call them out and bring them to light for their crimes. it will also increase the moderator workload 1000% when they already have problems with false positives and accounts that really should be banned for doxxing and willful admittance to swatting still being around. it all does nothing, just like trying to make it illegal to own or make in real life. inevitably people who actually hurt kids will be kept on the streets longer as the police have to deal with reports of drawings over the actual harm.
last point to make is that there is only one clear point to any of these rule changes. its been kept intentionally vague so any mod can ban for any reason and not give a clear justification in the report just like a real social media platform. no moderator accountability, no appeal chance, just pure thought crime all the time.
all this being said, its not like it wasn't expected. they banned a bunch of 3d artists for "posting real animal images" like a floating ps2 era level horse cock in a white void or monster hunter 3 renders is reality. they went after a bunch of comic writers for "depicting harm to children" by telling their own life story. went after a bunch of painters just recently for having realistic animal depictions. all this in just the past year. the mods are off their rockers (have been since around 2016 for many of them) and the owner wont crack down on it.
editing because i forgot to mention, all moderator messages need to have a valid reason. that's something too many sites fail at these days. if someone gets banned without a reason, yeet the mod end of story. punishments for the false accuser and/or bad mods need to be what the accused would have faced, will stop false reports real fast.
use photo ID's from the state? easily faked, happens all the time at bars and gas stations and puts users at risk should those ID's get leaked in a data breach. also leads to how china rules over its social media through a social credit system but we shall skip that sad dystopian reality.
require witnesses to sign forms? also easily faked, ultimately creates a walled garden of pre approved artists and users like a discord server.
hold the whole community hostage for a few bad actors? well, thats where we are now and its already not going to do much but get rid of those who follow the rules. provable by the history of tumblr.
agree that minors will lie regardless of how or what you do and demand the parents take responsibility for their own children? the ideal, but not likely given the current world.
i am quite curious how one implements a proper system in everyone elses eyes, because as it stands ive seen no solution that isnt beaten by the scratch test on any comment section recently.
i would comment directly to robinik on this point (they keep saying it to everyone after all) but they blocked me and i dont remember when or why.
Like, I use PayPal to do art commissions. It's the most convenient service out there for that. Occasionally those commissions are adult content. If PayPal ever catches wind of that they'll ban my account and hold any money I have on there for 6 months for "review".
Tumblr banned adult content because they weren't making any money. They had difficulty finding advertisers, outside of the adult industry, that wanted to advertise on their platform, and pretty much no banking or money management service wanted to deal with Tumblr for as long as it allowed adult content, so they couldn't manage their revenue effectively even if they found advertisers.
Tumblr needed to make money, and didn't want their website filled with porn ads, so they banned adult content.
This is the reason why other websites also have gone "minors first"; there simply isn't any money in a mature and adult platform unless it's a straight up porn platform like PornHub.
Thats the real issue, if a site allows the hosting of porn minors should be default not be allowed on that site
The one law that may be coming into place soon is people having to submit their ID's in regards to anything over 18+ related, I've generally been behind the idea apart from the mild mistrust of the misuse of that information, But I certainly see more pro's then cons. I personally feel even that the notion of "THEIR 18, THEIR FREE GAME" disgusting, even when I was 18 I was never mentally mature enough to understand the world and people in it yet.
I know it's fun and trendy to witch hunt me, But I don't think you will feel as good about your self the amount of times my wife has to had to comfort me during my breakdown in regards to tackling the very issues your concerned about, I know you guys love a good public hanging because of what I do for a living, but trying to shoot down a easy target doesn't make bad players go away. It's beyond sick that I'm trying to fight the good fight, yet I'm worried for my safety everyday because I cant reason with my community and your at the same time unintentionally grooming and training people to feel mistrust in their hearts.
Before you delete this comment, Rather then disseminating and sh*ting on FA's poor attempt to keep their bank role safe (I mean... minors), maybe assist minors by posting information about what authorities young people can get in contact with and clear warning signs without playing the victim yourself. What your parents did to you was DISGUSTING and they forfeited being parents as soon as they let that adult into your home, but you have got to start playing adult now yourself. FA is not the law and can only enforce rules that suite them best, Joining in on the "bashing FA club" isn't helping anyone, It's nit picky and predatory and just because you have a large following on twitter doesn't mean your exempt at being suspect yourself (yes, always talking about protecting minors CAN raise red flags because some people can use that as a public distraction)
Please don't be angry, please don't be sad, I'm not trying to get a rise out of you. Just understand that to assist FA and potential victims you need to get out of your comfort zone and "chime in" with the age group your trying protect (as gross and cringe as that feels) tightening the rules will only make teenagers want to go even harder against the rules to be defiant. I can't begin to imagen how complex this world is already for the younger generation without adults bickering amongst them self over opinion, rather then the issue at hand.
Please take care.
First of all, I don't play victim. Saying that is implying a lot of gross stuff.
Second, I already educate minors and bring info to them when I notice they are being victims of abuse, and I do the best as I can. That I don't make a post each time I help someone it doesn't mean im just "doing tantrums and playing the victim".
I already do projects to detect red flags that helps minors and adults to understand the problem.
Im even paying the therapy of an abused kid already.
Your entire comment just lack of touch and is just a rant against me like if i were your punching bag when I did literally nothing to you. Don't expect me to not be sad or angry after reading that.
Maybe take care and stop getting influenced by whatever gossip group you like to swim into.
this gave me context to where you stand.
we as adults are the one who should protect the kids,trolling or witch hunt is not something I condemn but when minors are involved there is no shades of grey or blurred lines,you either stand with us or against us
So he's disgruntled about FA banning minors... even after 12 years.
The update was bizarre. It just clarified that kids are allowed to be drawn in fetish art as long as it's called SFW. It's obvious actually looking out for minors came second. They need to keep kids out of sites that still allow adult content.
And that mention in the update is indeed creepy and bizarre.
It actually made me realize I didn't know the site was still allowing 13 year olds on it. It's not a 13+ site if you allow smut AND children. Make the site 18+ or dwindle the community it pretends it wants by outright banning smut.
It's not rocket science. It's harming actual children who hop onto this site thinking it's gonna be Zootopia.
Personally I'd vote for this place to be adults only outright. A website that also hosts porn and some of the most disturbing fetishes should not allow anyone under AT LEAST 16 to register (16 because that was about the age when I started getting really interested in lewd things), but otherwise just the normal 18+.
Otherwise lots of good ideas in your journal.
Speaking of which, who verifies IDs? Many governments, especially those outside the western world, are unstable and don't have the resources to verify citizen IDs. Even worse, this could put people in regressive countries such as Russia at risk, because it acts as mandatory reporting.
Overall, IMO, it's more of a risk than a benefit.
Anyhow: Amazing constructive journal. Almost feels like you should run this site...
I only heard about the age restriction being 13+ maybe a year ago cause i thought it was sooo clearly 18+???
But as i found it wasnt, lord it just.. disgusted me so hard.
Like sure stuff is hidden behind rating but the issue ofc is that there is still stuff like vore, disaper, feets, ect ect. That a fetishes and somehow end up being rated for general audience.
Ive used to do it cause i thought fa was 18+ by default-
But no.
And then there is ofc the misstagging that often happens alooot.
Be tired amd complettly forget rating nsfw stuff as adult rating and voila- kid will see it without aky issues... and thats a problem.
The fact that fa is not 18+ by default already seriously freaking irks me in so many ways.
Minors should never be allowed i to places like this. End, period, over.
And then this whole argument about vore being sfw, hell no dude. I dont get how this got so normalized?? I get that it can be a interest.
Like sure we may have experienced or got into vore cause of media on the tv. But it isnt the god damn intention to be "vore" there.
A snake eating its prey in the wild isnt freaning vore either- irs streight just nature being nature.
And people dont seem to freaking understand this.
Vore is a fetish for the most people out there and just because a few others may just have it as interest doesnt make it automatically okay to use kids in it... especially not on a page like furaffinity where people anyway come just for the fetish content pretty much for the most part.
I generell dont get what the Reasons to use children in it. Saying they have no bad intentions yet they are so opsessed with children makes this entire thing just such a weird vibe.
Too bad the FA staff don't put this much effort on their announcements.
Example drawings would also help a lot, as you can only convey so much with words.
And I absolutely do not understand how vore can be non-sexual--it's OBVIOUSLY sexual! Therefore, minors should not be allowed to SEE vore, much less participate in it--very disgusting!
Though, if FA does go 18+, what should happen to minors already registered? Do they get grandfathered in? Accounts locked until they turn 18? Something else?
I've spread the word: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/10560359/
I would feel way more comfortable if FA swapped to be a only 18+ site
There are ways you can highlight things without it being about sex and fetishism.
That, along with the very vague wording for the new rule makes it a shitty one.
They clearly dont know how to run a business/big site, let alone one as big as FA is.
I’ve already been seeing some the artists, writers, and/or people that post in their gallery what they commissioned that I followed on this site are either already leaving, are getting prepared to leave, or are possibly gonna have to be deleting most of or all of their gallery, like Jaki-kun and insomniacovrlrd for example and a good few others too…
Also the tedious part of having to verify every single user seems impossible to do.
...and yet, they still did absolutely NOTHING about banning other fetish content of underage characters! What is the world coming to?
I hope they update the fetish part soon. But at least this is showing they are listening, woooo!
Thank you so much for this. And drawing those guides seems really awesome!
I desperately hope they'll see this and take it on board, but FA is notoriously bad at taking on board feedback and suggestions and help from outside folks, it seems
[...]
-Mentioning that minors can get involved in common fetishes such like vore and pregnancy, in a journal about "Minor Protective Issues", IS A TERRIBLE IDEA, and it baffles me you wrote that and thought it was ok to post it, showing a lack of review and missing the whole point of protecting minors. Making your users distrust you, making them leave and drop the support towards your site, which is valid, even I am not proud to show the badge I got from a discount."
THIS is my #1 issue. I'm neutral on the rule updates but this is an actual measure to protect minors instead of cracking down on literal Pokemon drawings. Especially when SFW fetish of minor characters is allowed??? Even if there's no nudity/sex/genitals showing it still has sexual intents.
I never understood why FA is still a 13+ site when there's NSFW content right there (and is the main sell of coming here, let's be real), it's a recipe for disaster. Chances of grooming being high aside, adults shouldn't have to walk on eggshells for the chance a minor might see and minors shouldn't have to be constantly on guard for who is a potential creep or not.
You have to but look at the front pages of FA right here or places like InkBunny to see how closely related the furry fandom is to expressing all sorts of erotic fantasies.
Banning content involving minors is fine, but there are so many more fetishes on this website, even disturbing ones that aren't even correctly marked.
So either ban all adult content to make this place safe for minors. OR ban minors.
Speaking of minors, how the fuck can you ban adult content involving minors but feel that teen pregnancy of a 13 year old is just fine!? Teen pregnancy of a 13 year old!
The level of inconsistency here just boggles my mind beyond all belief. I would very much like to ask the person who came up with that policy what their rational is.
Either be like InkBunny, and make everyone aware of it, or properly ban adult content with minors. Not this half measure that just makes the whole "protect minors" thing look pretentious as fuck.
This whole policy change scenario has had me on edge for the entire time because all it takes is one irritable moderator to say my art-style has proportions that look like a minor.
Putting in my own words in to hope this can get more traction, the community needs clearer guidelines and smoother management