Oh this is amazing!!

Do you mind if I share this journal with folks via a redirect to it on a Furry server and in my own FA journal? I'm sure it'd be great for all! :)

Thank you! :D

And of course! Feel free to share it wherever you'd like ^^

Horray!

This is a great overview of tips for commissioners, it's something that I've thought about for a while as well.

The artist's tip of being wary of people with zero commissioning history is suspicious is on point, ESPECIALLY with auctions/YCH pieces. I know artists who will straight up refuse a winning bid if said winner is a brand new account or is the default icon.

Glad to hear that! :)

Yeah thats why one of my requirements when I do auctions/YCH is to have some kind of credibility when I check out your profile. If someone is prolific commissioner, you'd think they would have at least something on their profile, you know? xD

Definitely good things to follow here! As much as I commission art, I still get worried I messed things up lol

No worries, you've always been good with me! xD But yeah every artist works different, so its good to make sure.

That’s good to hear XD. And yep, definitely make sure!

I'd like to expand on the tip for clients about refs.

If they are shaded, I feel minimal cell shading is okay unless the character is heavily detailed. Honestly, for any ref you have it's best to have a flats version to send to an artist, and then a shaded version can be for online!
But painted refs, at least to me, are REALLY hard to understand how certain things are. Reference sheets are supposed to be for helping the artist know how to draw things, but painted refs can severely limit that. You may not be able to tell if a marking is shading or not, or if there was a color shift. This is if the entire ref is shaded.
If there's just one view that shows shading (as an example) then that's completely fine! But color palettes will not help fully shaded refs unless the character is super, super simple to begin with.

Just gotta remember that refs should be easy to follow and understand your character. :3

But I agree with all the rest~

For me, I can usually discern the base colors from a cel shaded ref at least, so I dont really mind that too much, but yeah coloring picking from a painting is a nightmare. xD I know some people like to have shading on their refs for presentation/aesthetic purposes, since just having flat colors can make a character look well.. flat lol. But as a tool for the artist, it just makes the job harder. If the colors are kept flat, its way faster to eyedrop the colors while you're working rather than making guesses.

But that point is mainly just a recommendation for the client, not a mandatory thing xD I won't knock on them if they show me a shaded ref haha

I actually didnt know about that myself! But yeah I'll probably expand the "spotting AI art" for clients part a bit more later, with a list of things to look out for. But thanks for letting me know about that!

I agree with it all, even though I may have soreness with some of the points, I do the see the wisdom and value in them more. Thank you for creating sharing. :3

I will also say this, at it's core, for any business, it's all about making customer feel like their needs taking care of more then anything else. Bar none. However a merchant worth with his calibar will always find ways to do so, without breaking his back doing so.

Is there any point you might have issue with? I get why you might feel like that, but I mainly want to encourage artists to put their foot down more and not having them getting taken advantage of like I was. Making sure the customer is happy is always the goal of course, but not at the expense of your well being.

Back when I first started I was VERY much a pushover and always put the customers needs before mine, hoping that it would result in something positive for me. When people know you're like that, it can attract bad actors looking to take advantage of you. Because of this, i struggled financially and felt stuck career wise for a long time. It wasnt until I started setting up boundaries, rose my prices and became more strict that I was able to improve my living situation and quality of my work altogether.

Oh no not really, it's more just nuances from my perspective. Such as haggling, if it's something that's not on the terms or agreement, or could be a alternative design element, if it's to expensive or complex for the character. Usually how I do it.

I also think it would be a good idea to have any notes, if not using a Google Forms, for most commissions, especially if any artist, has tendency to ghost for a few months and then come back forgetting about what was the concept of the commission. (Had this recently lol). Makes the customer feel more neglected and pissed off, naturally.

I think the real problem and most the time, for me, is that sketch phase often the important part of any artwork, a lot of times you could spend weeks or months, thinking of the concept, but when you actually see it, you may want drastic changes and edits, a lot of times, I am detailed, even then the artist will not fully grasp the concept, which can be frustrating. I don't expect a 100% accuracy of course, honestly I prefer the artist would improve upon on it, if possible(though still notify before hand, after all it, should be the decision of the customer, to THEIR concepts), and even then, you still probably won't have that perfect idea after sometime later, that is how creativity tends to work, as you would know. Now this is only for sketches, not for wip, unless as you've stated is minor details.

Really the artist portion is well done and oustanding insight, that every artist should have, in their colorful handbook.


I agree with it, usually my gripes of previous and personal experience, but I am gulity about 'describing' since I get so passionate about it, that I may blurt many unnecessary details, however usually my concepts are complex and story driven, so it does require a lot of lengthy texts, because I'm not only looking for the concept itself, but the mood and feeling, a lot of my concepts are dark and foreboding pieces, and I like to invoke those feelings on those that view them, but I do agree anyways, I have been getting better at it.

Though I will another good tactic, in keeping customers and making them happy, talking and being interested in their world and characters, does mean a lot, that alone will make someone want to come back and even tip. After all, they may not get any attention of their own ideas and may appreciate it more, if someone would be passionate and interested as a fan would be. Though it could just a personal wish.

Anyways, as you can see, it's not really major, just maybe some expansion to you already well crafted wisdom. If I could, I would commission you, though I don't think you would like my content much. lol Thank you sharing and taking the time to reply! :3

Ah I see! Yeah admittedly I'm not a super prolific commissioner (im pretty picky with who i choose to com) as most of my experiences are as an artist, so obviously one section is probably gonna be more detailed than the other xD

Imo, I think haggling is fine if you're just trying to sell something (like an object). But if its a service and someone keeps trying to lower the price from the quote I gave them, i do get slightly insulted. But I do get that POV if its like a fixed price com (for example i dont think a portrait of a simple design should cost the same for a detailed one). As for the ghosting, that seems more about unprofessionalism from the artist. A professional one would be able to keep organized and keep tabs on everyone (its also the artists responsibility to contact you and keep you updated).

That part is tricky since artists normally arent going to picture what you have in your head exactly. I've ran into the same issues when I commissioned others, and yeah I've been disappointed too. xD Thats why I recommended the "stick figure doodles" as sort of guide for them. I get wanting to make sure you get what you paid for, but constant edits and revisions can also wear down an artist too, especially if they're not getting compensated for it. I think the best solution is to find a middle ground where the artist can portray your idea the best they can without stifling their artistic input. Although, there are artists that get really anal about edits and changes, so i suppose if you're more meticulous, its best to avoid those ones ahah.

That point i do agree with! From a customer POV I always like to see the artist actually interested in my characters. It makes me feel like they actually like what they're working on rather that like an "ugh, another thing to do on my list" you know? xD Im a passionate storyteller as well, so I definitely understand. But I also get that artists have to go through a lot of orders, so sometimes I like to just leave a link to my characters TH page or something if they feel like looking at it, instead of overwhelming them with a text wall.

But yeah eventually i'll probably add more and revise this a bit, since I just kinda went at it in one go haha. But thanks for sharing your perspective!

Nothing wrong with it. Expertise is always insightful and detailed, and is often the most helpful.

I understand, but you have to remember, most people view art pieces, as objects. Especially if you attached monetary value to anything, it becomes a commodity. After all, and as you've said, it's a luxury want, that one should be able to pay for. I abosolutely agree, though I do keep in mind, that life can be cruel and demanding mistress, it is the the duty of the merchant, to honor their paid oath.

It is! This is a very tricky business, indeed. Really it's not right and wrong answer to it, for it's up to the customer and artist, I guess maybe for me, I would want an artist values, artistic process, fully breathing life into the empty husk one's wants, to become that genie that will make the dreams come true, but at a good price of course, I understand it does take a lot of time, a lot of life, to draw these wonderful concepts. I prefer middle grounds, but usually most people, don't discuss and negotiate, expand on ideas, into more memorable treaties of two brilliant minds.

Exactly! That's what I've always felt, because I would think sharing and learning other ideas, is what artists really are good at, to be able to immersive themselves in other worlds, to find passion and understanding, true it does take effort, but no different from what they have done for themselves right?

Speaking of such, I do find your character's enjoyable, they are well crafted and always memorable, Sky and Keith, have a very solid relationship, unlike most other artists that rely already existing, or card board cut outs, they are few that actually feel genuine and back stories are nuance enough to have a good takes, even with some of the trophs, don't feel as dated, so that's a skill in itself.

Anyways I'm glad my input has helped, I hope to see more of your works, as the years roll by. :3

I still have to disagree on that point. While yes, art is an "object", its different when you're selling art as merchandise vs a custom service. When I have multiple productions of the same art (merch), and say I have overstock and want to downsize, I'd be fine selling it at a lower price if I needed to.

But when you're hiring artists, not only are you buying custom art made just for you, but also their time and expertise. A better way to compare it to is when you are hiring someone to work on your house (like a landscaper or construction worker). Most of these workers have set price quotes because they have plenty of clientele who are willing to pay them at those prices. If I tried haggling with them, they'll see it as an insult to the skills they took years to learn (basically its a way of saying you're not worth as much as you think you are) and can just simply refuse me as a client. If they're really struggling to get work then maybe they can accept the lower haggled price, but that just seems like taking advantage of someone in need, which can be kinda scummy on the clients part.

BUT I do agree with most of what you've said here! And I'm glad you like my boys too haha ^^

I don't disagree with what your saying, but what about YCH's? Aren't they a hybrid of those two concepts?

I see your point, I suppose I viewd haggling different, like having more of a mutual agreement or discount, but I see what it is now. Thanks for the explanation! :3

Glad to hear we have further our common ground and of course? Hard not too!

In a way yeah, since its technically "premade", but I guess it depends what kind of YCH it is.
If you mean those multi slot ones, you claim it and want a discount on your simpler-than-usual character, I guess its up to the artist if they want to accept it.
If its an auction type or one that wont be reproduced again, then it wouldn't be fair to win it, then go to an artist and say "Hey look at my character, they're pretty simple right? Can I get a cheaper price than I offered?" Because then it takes away the chance from a potential client who would've been fine with paying the higher price.
Then theres YCHs that dont get bids/offers and so the artist decides to lower the price. But thats on the artist, no one is forcing them to.

Yeah no problem! I know in some situations haggling is a more common thing, but it usually involves selling items between merchants and customers (not services). Otherwise its considered rude in most cases.

I suppose you are right. Personally, I don't like YCH's, I feel llike it's a cheap grab for monetary gain, then actually any substational creative gain and uniquness, though I understand it's purpose, and that not everyone is as creative as others. Anyways, I do agree that haggling is wrong for this sort of thing.

This is wonderful information! I'm still trying to build up what I can and taking very steady steps into doing commissions, fairly small, mainly with friends.
This can totally help to expand with the amazing experience you have! ^^
Not to mention some the good pointers I'm seeing on the comments here such those who are new on YCH websites.
I do love to get into doing adoptable like Helix does so successfully, but that is no doubt a challenge to find the balance.

Glad to hear that! Yeah its best to start small when it comes to anything really. ^^
Adoptables I dont have much experience with admittedly. :'D I sold maybe like 3 in my lifetime, and I dont buy them myself (since i like to design my own characters). But i can see it as a good way of making money while flexing your own design skills! I personally just cant get into the psychology of buying character designs when I can draw them on my own haha.

Very nice, I like the general ideas about what you pointed out in the form, I'll be sharing this in my Discord to help any of those that might need it. Thank you for sharing this with us!

Aw thank you! And of course! Glad it could be of help! :D

You're welcome, and it sure will for some that are starting off!

Great points 🙂 I wish we could fav journal entries.

Thanks! And same haha

As a hobbyist that's done a handful of commissions and an aspiring commissioner, your guide is super handy - thanks for sharing!

This might be a silly question, but what do you think is the ideal frequency for communication/updates?

Aw of course! No problem! :D

It kinda depends on your workflow, but from my experience, most clients are pretty patient and are fine with waiting for months if needed. But for me personally, I like to work fast, so when I was "actively" working on someone's commission, I usually updated them every week or so with a WIP. And this is while I was working full-time as well. If I did commissions fulltime again, I'd probably be able to update them every other day. But this was mainly because I was trying to meet an earning quota at the time, so I couldn't afford delays. So if you're a hobbyist, you probably don't need to worry about that much though.

From a clients perspective though, I would say I'd be a bit antsy if I was currently on top of a queue and I've hadn't heard anything for about a month. But that's just me. xD

So I would say 1-2 weeks is ideal if you're actively working on it (though I'm not sure of other factors that may affect that in your case)

Pixel animations are a bit hard to preview past the initial stills (mine look like thrashing blobs until late in the process, haha), but touching base every week or 2 so the commissioner knows work is happening is perfectly reasonable.

Thanks again, I was worried about committing a social faux pas by messaging too often (or too little), so it's great to have direction from a professional!