Hell yes it is....

...totally wasn't expecting an epiphany at this hour, haha!

You rock dude.

That....umm..

*deep thought*

Hear hear! That's how I live my life.

Well, that depends. There can be free will and a singular purpose if we are all meant to strive for that purpose. Now, that does introduce the possibility of an incorrect use of free will, meaning choice are inherently right or wrong, but there is still the choice to be wrong.

If there are a million branching paths to choose from yet all lead to the same destination can you really say that you had a choice?

Yes. After all, you chose which branch to follow. An inevitable and predetermined end does not mean a predetermined life.

It actually does, because you can't say for sure that any of the decisions you made were your own.

I find it rings true that you also can't prove you aren't the cause of your actions. I understand you are coming from a determinist perspective, and to be fair its a strong stance. After all, any decision can be looked at as the effect of a cause. Why did you do this? Because of such and such action which happened earlier.

Though, it seems to me that we as intellectual entities don't respond to the past simply through cause and effect. We consider a cause carefully before responding with an effect. Again, however, you could argue that our considerations are caused by our genetics and environmental factors which shaped us to think as we do.

Really, when it comes down to it, there's not a clear cut answer. X3 Though, the liberation that comes from not having free will seems more an ability to deny guilt than true freedom. "I am just doing what past events forced me to do. Why should I care?"

That is something true regardless of the nature of the universe.

Free will is one of those things that is simply impossible to prove, as there is no way to separate the choices of free will from the outcome of a deterministic process which you simply don't understand.

Another thing you can never prove is that anything except your mind exists.

I've had dreams of the future. Mostly one or two minute snippets of events that will happen years down the line, sometimes with people I didn't know or didn't even exist at the time. So I've had the occasional struggle with the concept of free will. Though, on a couple occasions I have deliberately done something different than was in my dream. However, I don't know for sure if I was always intended to do that or not. See, after the one or two minutes of prophesy ends, my crazed subconscious takes over and makes weird stuff happen, like aliens invading. So I never know if I started "deviating" from the dream after the real portion had already ended or not. Thus leaving me with the lingering question of whether or not the future is written in stone already, or if we can actually change it.

Consider that time itself may be non-linear.

So you're suggesting that, while I'm seeing a brief glimpse of the future, that it may not actually be predetermined?

I'm pretty sure I'm following you, but I can't exactly find the words to express it. Or maybe I'm totally missing the point. ^_^;

Who says you're not creating the future in your dreams?

That's kind of an odd idea. ^_^; Well, at least that's my first impression.

I did talk to someone about this years ago. I don't recall if she said this exactly, but I guess it's possible that my dreams might actually show me several different possibilities (not all at once, of course) but only a few ever come to pass.

Oh I so agree! Very liberating it can be, yeah lol lots of people don't feel the same...

I find that people do feel the same, but are in a state of cognitive dissonance.

S'OK, we don't have a purpose. Feel free to rock out on your way out. \m/

The only other reason to watch your work is to get such deep profound thought... Blowing minds one puff or thought at a time... ;P... but The deeper meaning thing, Having a purpose... besides 'Death' there isn[t too many 'true purposes' that don't seem to jsut plug in when you least expect it. We do have free will but the will only goes as far as moving the timeline along to when that urpose revieles it's self.. *nod nod* That's how I think on it. You can choose to not fufill that purpose but even it still happens, even if you moved the time of it by say... 2 moments, then it shows Freewill has been achieved. in some strange way. ;P

For me, free will comes down to one question, and it's very closely tied to what you mention here: is the universe uncertain and inherently unknowable, or is it deterministic and thus absolutely understandable but also mechanistic and devoid of any form of freedom or choice?

I really have a hard time saying which would be better. To have free will, things must be undeterminable; if the outcome could be determined, no choice would be involved. This means we can never fully understand the universe, or have full control over our own destiny because we cannot make truly informed decisions. On the other hand, if we lived in a universe where we could always know the outcome of our actions and never have to fear a lack of understanding leading to dangerous and undesirable consequences (admittedly, a somewhat boring existence), there would be no choice or freedom in the universe, because all the variables would in fact be constants.

In either event, all current scientific evidence points towards uncertainty being an inescapable part of the universe which even in theory we cannot overcome, and so free will does seem to be a strong possibility. At the very least, [i]something[i] gets to affect the grand outcome of events, and that's more freedom than having it all etched in stone.

I often think about this when i am at worthless collage classes that the collage makes me take that has nothing to do with my choice of job I want. Thinking about all of this meaningless existence and how we try to find a sad excuse for why we are here.

oddly enough after thinking on this for a while I want to go off and hurt people ...

Meh. It's kind of a pointless argument in my book.

Unless there is some way for it to be proven without a doubt that there is either predetermined individual or universal destinies, then we can't tell the difference between our free will or a cosmic/deity-resultant destiny...

It's interesting to think about, but it really doesn't change anything...

THE PURPOSE OF YOUR UNIVERSE IS TO END, MR ANDERSON

This was something discussed in the April 2010 issue of Discover magazine, involving the possibility that the future can and does influence the past even before such happens. As if the universe itself has its own set destiny.

Does it really matter? Either way you'll never know if there is a grand scheme that's taking away your free will, or if there isn't one and that life is pointless anyways. Some people can find evidence of and take solace in the thought of a "solid" universe, whereas others can find evidence of and take solace in the thought of a "free" universe. Who's right? I don't know and probably never will XD

Oh, and as for my own two cents towards which is which, I like having free will, so I go with the latter XD I try to back it up with the concept of 'infinity', which seems to have no right nor rhyme in our minds and thus suggests there's more going on than the simplistic arguments we lay out for ourselves.

So, implying the universe is moving from a system of simplicity to a system of complexity and chaos, does that mean that free will exists to further the purpose of complexity/chaos?

So doesn't that mean the universe's purpose is to make complexity, which means that free will exists to serve that purpose?

I suppose you're looking at the goal, Mif, rather than the process. The destination instead of the journey. 8)

Simplicity and complexity are simply adjectives to describe the over all machine. A purpose cannot be a description. One must look at the actual mechanics of said machine in order to find the purpose and overall goal, wouldn't you agree? :3

You need a better way to say this, because my brain just gave up every single time.

Sorry ^^; I'll try to boil it down.

Complexity is a description of how the universe works, but not what it does. A description can't be the outcome, but rather a product or an over all goal.

what if the purpose of the universe is to find out where free will leads too? then free will would exist and the universe would have a purpose.

It is liberating for those who accept it and understand it.

Most people are scared shitless knowing there isn't anything else to life than living.

In a way will in itself is a fallacy if you look at things such as instincts and natural drives. For instance take women. Most straight men have particular likes in the physical appearance of women. That's not choice as much as men are naturally inclined to look for features in a woman that promote better survival and ability to bare children. ie hips, breasts, ass, etc. When looking for a good woman that really isn't their choice most times, it's instinct. While intellect and personality are important it often takes a back seat... which is why often the most ugly people can be the most wonderful at the same time and still not have a partner.

Also, I'd say the universe's "great purpose" would be to exist. That and nothing more. :3 Then again this comes from a godless science freak... so... yeah...

Life is ordered chaos. Predestination is determined not by an "all powerful" god, but rather by our own past choices. Each choice we make, each path we choose to go down, determines what choices we will have in the future. For example, 9 years ago I choose to leave my life in the States and move to England. That one choice changed my future and thus all my future life choices. And I did have a choice - stay or leave.

Our future choices are also determined, in part, by the choices other people make. My ex husband, for example, choose to be abusive. That choice restricted the choices I had to two - leave him and start my life (again) or stay and end up being killed. The more people you add into the mix, the more chaotic it all gets. :)

If there truly is purpose in the universe, then it lies at infinity. Either that, or at heat death.

Just because you have a purpose doesnt mean you will succeed in that purpose. We can follow that purpose or make one of our own, and we may succeed or fail at either one. Just because you were given a purpose doesnt mean you lack free will.

Take America for instance. It started out as British colonies with the purpose of getting Brittan more land, power, and wealth. The colonies decided that their purpose would be for themselves and their own freedom, not a far away power with no care for their own well being, so they set out to make it so. Having a purpose imposed upon them by some other force in no way impeded on their free will, except perhaps making them work a little more to crate the life and purpose they wanted to have.

This is the difference between Destiny and Fate - Fate is used by people who wish to explain away their actions and make their choices and consequences not their fault. Destiny is more like a set path or paths. Theres nothing stopping you from staying off path at any time, your actions are your own. So if you believe in fate, then free will does not exist. If you believe in Destiny, your free will, as well as the free will of others, determine everything. If you believe neither exists, then free will still determines everything. So the only option I see as determining everything as devoid of meaning is Fate - without free will I just dont see a point.

Sorry if my logic doesnt make sense somewhere, I had my wisdom teeth out today and the Anesthesia is still affecting me =3

Even assuming that the universe has some big purpose an' there's only one outcome, that doesn't negate free will. After all, who says that anything we do has any effect on whether the universe reaches said purpose/outcome or not anyways?

Not true: Even if there is a set destination, Free will determines how you get there.

That simply implies that free will itself is irrelevant :P

What's the point of free will if you can't make meaningful choices?

You're assuming that the destination holds more meaning than the path; it doesn't.

You're going to die. Does that make your life worthless?

Humans are silly. And I say this from the perspective of the dead. They strive for some greater meaning that makes them more important than the rest of the meaningless things around them. But in the end, it is simply an ego they have that needs to be stroked.

Now, who wants to stroke my ego? ~fiddles with pants~ No, I can't stand being serious for long... Just in case you were wondering.

Well, the Lord gave us free will because he didn't want to make us into puppets or robots. I mean, you can't love someone who's forcing you to love him, right? <:3

But yes, depending on the choices we make, that's what our outcome will be. If we choose to do right, the Lord will bless us. If we choose to do wrong, the Lord will not punish us, but being out of his will and presence will make us vulnerable to the wicked one's attacks. <:' But the best news is, we can ALWAYS go to God. No matter how we look or smell or anything of the sort, the Lord will ALWAYS love us and ALWAYS be more than happy to forgive us when we truly repent. ;3

And our grand purpose isn't ours, but the Lord's. <:3

*huggles*

I've always been a fan of a meaningless existence. It's... Somehow comforting.

Unless of course you following the branching many worlds interpretation, in which case there can be plenty of universes.

"Any purpose derived from our existence is of our design" That's beautiful but have you ever considered the possibility that our purpose is just that? To have free will and ponder eternally the great and terrible things we're ment to do?