Fuck the haters! You both rock for doing what you do. I thought the photos were great and that you both do a good job with supporting the leather community... plus your doing something you both enjoy doing..

so again.. fuck the haters! If they have issues with the photos they can easily just not fuckin look at them.

i'm asexual, but I do think what you've done is admirable.

keep it up. the haters are jealous

I think "pride" can be more than just "gay pride." At the SF Pride Parade (note, we just call it "Pride" without specifying) there was an asexual group marching. Pride for whatever you are!

Because god forbid anyone should express a level of PRIDE in something they enjoy in a frigging PRIDE parade. Jesus Christ.

As for accusations of being "freaks" - Hell, who on Earth isn't? There is no universal standard of "normal". Everyone is different, no two people are not on fire one man's trash is another man's treasure, to each his own, and other such cliches.

For what it's worth, Proxy, I'm glad to see you revelling in your own timeless brand of pride, and I hope you and Noble had the most fantastic time.

Thanks - and it was a blast, and I want to do it again and again, which is why I'm taking this issue to heart!

Well frankly, you're in the right here. Why should you conform to others demands for normality when you're not hurting anyone by doing what you would otherwise do? Screw them, and keep rocking the puppy gear!

pfft polluting their pristine image of gays?..... i think what you guys do, with the parade, amazing pup stuff and fursuit building is the most awesome things ever. keep it up!

Thanks lol :D

of courseness!

I think the number one thing everyone needs to remember is this: There is NO SUCH THING as normal

lol, well, apparently Noble and I destroyed normal anyways :D

And if someone was truly "normal", would you want to meet that horrible beige person?

wait, there are haters even in the gay community. fun fun. it's kind of funny, i thought we were supposed to be an indiscriminate community in general. but saying you two scare "normal" people is ridiculous, you went in and represented the leather community aaaand people have a problem with leather?...it's a sexual preference/fetish like cross dressing or anything else really. i really cant put into put my feelings about this in words, i am just baffled.

For me, Gay Pride Parades make me feel uncomfortable about being gay. When someone thinks of a gay man what they think of is the fetish and sex parade that is 'Gay Pride'.

As I understand it, Gay Pride is more about saying "I'm gay, and I'm just like you" than it is about saying "I'm gay, look at my crazy fetishism!"

If it had been a fetish or sex parade then fine, that's great, but pretending it's a parade about gay pride is just insulting, really. That's why the hate.

It's not a 'Gay Pride' parade, it's just a 'Pride Parade', which is a celebration of the diversity of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bi and transgender) community - so it has nothing to do with normal gays really...

In which case I feel misinformed, I didn't realise a 'Pride Parade' was different to a 'Gay Pride Parade'.

Since you're actually celebrating fetishism and sex within the gay community, I have no problem with it since that's what the parade is intended to do.

its no diffrent then furrys fucking in fursuit or drawing anthro animals fucking humans or another animal "Thats not normal! thats sick its going to give furries a bad name!!!" See my point????

No, I don't, because that's not the point I'm making and therefore it bears no relevance to why I had a problem with the parade in the first place.

My problem with the parade comes from misunderstanding of its intended purpose. Since the parade is actually intended to celebrate sex and fetishism within the gay community and I now know that, I have no issue with it, I was of the belief that this was a generic Gay Pride Parade and therefore the sex and fetish aspect had no place within it.

Damn right yo'. I get the same shit about wearing just my leather in public. Like, leather jeans and boots. And waistcoat. Over a t-shirt. Anyway, yeah, I get ripped on, but it's not like we're running around with our cocks out, is it? Fuck them dude, who are they to judge?

Gay pride, woo!

more power to you! I admit I didn't really know what gay pride rallies were about. I thought they were a bunch of homosexuals just coming together to be proud, nothing like all the fetish stuff! Wow! At first, I would have agreed with all those people who said you're just showing off fetishes, but looking at all these photos it's clear everyone was dressing up, having fun, and showing off their likes, dislikes, and kinks.

Always have pride in what you guys do and love :3 You guys rock~ Haters gonna hate

Edit to this, Pride parade not a gay parade x3
I didn't know they had regular Pride parades. I guess it depends on what you do and what everyone else is doing. If everyone is showing off what they can, awesome. But if it's just a rally like Whitecolt up there said that is just to show gays are the same, it'd be inappropriate. Overall, people need to stop bitchin at you guys.

There's a time and place and you guys were doing the right thing in the right place, I think, as this was made for fetish stuff and kinks, it's fine. If you guys would have been just like that in a normal Gay rally then it wouldn't be fitting, but you guys and everyone else clearly were doing what this was meant to be ^ ^

Ya this Pride event was for everything - it's one of the biggest in the world ;D

Thanks for the support :)

I think its just mainly the people who are gay and bi and yet are ashamed of what they are. or subconisously do bitch out the *none normal* cause they are vanilla and think everyone else should be.

I normally just ignor these kinds of people cause they are ussualy egotiscal judgemental people....

I don;t go around and bitch out fully straight vanilla people and froce it down there throats that they should do everythign thats not normal.

freedom of expression is something people have charished for MANY years.

Agreed.

well its also the fact of, if you do not like something, and do not agree on something, the question should come to mind *are they actually hurting me* and if the answer is no, then don;t push and force ur points of views on others and shit. some stuff does pop otu side that box but still the poitn is there.

I agree fully with freedom of speach.... but there is a line...... cause there is the whole thing of keepign ur comments to ur self...

showing up for work in gear is different then a parade though. the gay pride parade from what i seen has changed from showing that u are loud and proud to a parade for cheap thrills and shit, which i don't care about, i love shit like that.....

honestly there was the floot behind us that had everyone naked, and i was like wtf...... ok.... but didn't really care cause it wasn;t any of my business and had nothign to do with us.

I still beleive it jsut boils down to, if u don't like what u see, don't watch, or if u don't want anythign to do with it, don't particapate *spell?*

and as a side note i jsut think people take shit way to seriously in general, they see one thing about a certian type of person weather it be homosexuals, furry, star trek, and shit. they see a star trek fan and instantly thing that they are nerds and only collect star wars and if u know nothign of star wars they want nothing to do with u. or another good one is all furries are sex nuts. when everyone in the fandom knows its not about it at all.... its jsut people sterotyping..... and to me thats sad, but if they want to site there and be happy thinking that everyone of XXXXXX is like that and be closed minded in liek that.... then fine, have fun.....

We have *normal* friends, and they say Proxy and I are a cute couple, we are nothing like the *normal* gey stero type of the gay lisp, everythign has to do with penis's, wear drag.... all that shit. and we surprise others with the positive furry stero type, cause even though we are normal and adult fursuit makers, we don't site there and talk about yiff 24-7, we both have good jobs, don't mooch off people, arn't emo...

shrugs. I was raised to not judge a book by its cover or name. it jsut sucks that there is still people that do.

It's even worse, Noble, that these pics are recieving such negative comments here...ON FA...out of all places!

Just go have fun with your bad selves <3 People who are offended by this take life WAY too seriously, and need to have a meat tenderizer taken to their cold, closed brains. :(

Seriously, ignore their bullshit. People who spend their time posting on stuff they don't like, really need to reassess their lives. If you purposely comment on something that upsets youm it's their own damn fault. Why should the people who have fun with life have to pay?

Like I said in my journal, they're just a bunch of bitch emo kids that need to lighten up and be grateful. You guys are grateful for each other, and for the pride you have in yourselves. I take my hat off to you both in great respect. The world needs to learn pride like your's!!

That's the whole point, it's fucking PRIDE!!

Thanks for the kind words ;)

plus, what right do people who like -furry porn- get off telling people to be normal? =P

I LIKE SEEING HORSES FUCK LITTLE SUBBY FOXES AND THEN HAVE THE HORSE PISS ALL OVER THEM!!!!

HOW DARE U WALK AROUND IN LEATHER AND PUPPY GEAR AT A PRIDE FESTIFUL!!!! *i have no idea if i spelt festiful right* AND EHEHEH CFIODFW WFB WFBUOWF WCF WFWDFO WFWF IPFWWF EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...

OMG U TU? TAT'S AWESOME BRO. HAET ALL THESE PEOPEL WALKIGN AROUND BECAUSE I WANT TO SCREW A FOX INSTEAD ASDJKLKJHGDFGHJSDFKFJFJFKKKDJDKHHHHHHH

LMAO

Hehe any time.

Screw those haters Proxy, what you and Noble did was honorable. It shows that you are both proud of yourselves and that you both are happy to be who you are.

And it makes me very happy to see that, I wish me and Sarus could have joined you both in the parade because we both are proud to be Gay as well <:)

There is nothing wrong with it, it is our choice, and if that choice makes us happy, then stick to that path, dont stray because of those trolls and haters, just ignore them.

They dont understand us, and see us different from them. We should be proud to be different, its what makes us special Proxy. :)

You and Noble both are special in your own way. So dont let them get you down, ignore their shitty ass comments and do whatever you and Noble both can to keep on smiling :)

Your friends are for you! ^^

Thankies :)

Ur welcome, and its true :)

People are entitled to thier own opinion, but need to learn not to be so rude :\... People favor other things more than the other, and what makes your works so special is that your heart went into it. Dedication, and it shows. If people cant at least appreciate it that way, then they're not important. All you need is eachother, what you do best, and your fans <3

Agreed - I don't care if people don't like it, just don't be a bitch and fucking hate on us!

Thanks for your kind words ;)

no prob c: <3 keep struttin your stuff!

i agree. liek there is shit i don;t like, i don't go around bitching about it...... number one, its none of my business what others do, number 2, i'm lazy, number 3....... there is no point..... why...

Screw them! Those pictures were awesome and hot [that's a different story] and if people weren't into that sort of thing they shouldn't have looked at it. Simple as that. I'm glad you guys are able to do something you enjoy for the Pride Parade. Screw what they think!

hater suck.. and need to get a life of their own.. you guys looked great. as always.. dont let the fools get to you.. they suck anyways:P

You know what Noble, EVERYONE ELSE CAN FUCK THEMSELVES!
Wear whatever you want to wear, show your pride however you want to show it!
You look damn good in your gear and you've put so much time into making it look good so be proud of it! If anyone has a problem with that then they can piss off.
Be who you want to be, wear what you want to wear, and do what you love to do!
We as people have the right to express our nature however we wish

-Bartalimue

p.s.-If wearing my tail, pride t-shirt, and assless chaps while riding my motorcycle is wrong then I don't want to be right!

this is proxys FA journal :P

NYAH! *Headdesk* sorry..... my brain wasn't really functioning while typing *Continues bouncing head off desk* I sorreh.....

lol no worries ;)

There are haters of everything. They'll never go away. Because they want to hate. Quite possibly the hate is due to ignorance. And I'm sure stuff that the haters do annoy others. But the haters will tell you that what they do is "normal" and so acceptable. So don't hate the haters. Love them. That'll really get up their nose.

Good for you prox. In my books, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. You guys had fun, and you probably had a lil more fun than noble, because you got to pup it up in front of over a million people you exhibitionist :P

Here here!

you and noble got my support all the way! <3 i love all your photos you guys post! <3 much love towards you both and all gays and lesbians! <3


Im Bi, and proud of it dang nabbit! :P

just sayin, i personally wouldnt have the balls to wear fetishes in public like leather ( i do love socks but um, ya those can be worn daily without up tight ppl freakin out all over the place) but i mean all the more power to ya! its ur life, be proud if ppl wanna rant and rave so what they can put a sock in it, im sure they have fetishes too... i respect u guys for doin what u love, its not like ur promoting mass slaughterings or anything haha ur not hurting anyone by parading

The way I see it, Pride is more about celebrating alternative sexuality than it is about just homosexuality nowadays.
I guess I'm of two minds about this because I -do- want homosexuality to be viewed as just that, being into the same gender and not about drag or BDSM or furry, but I really don't have much of a problem with what you guys are doing either.

fuck them this is why humans are ass holes lol cause they always gotta start drama and bs like that next time they do tell em to sit and spin

D'awww, lame you were getting comments like that :( I must say Pup-play, as well as other kinks, isn't as well know and I would hope it to be...
I participated in a pup-contest last Sunday... Along with 2 other pups. Just 2! there weren't any other pups at that whole event :(
Luckily, it was an unique chance to promote pup-play =]

... im confused that people are actually hatign on you...... like seiously? i can only guess they are trollsor i dont think they get the whole pride parade concept.... im actually supprised people would be giving you shit well.... keepup the good work and good on you for doing puppy play in the BLAZING summer *hugs*

i luled at the guy who said about the bad rep i mean please i've done so~ much worse get a scotsman drunk and i'll show them a bad image ;3
and how can anyone not love the leather look :o!

congrats on doin what YOU want =3 screw the ppl that disrespect you for enjoying life. the only things ive ever truly hated is intolerance, and blind stupidity. as for anything else, live and let live ^W^

I'm a straight guy but I liek going to those things because they r pretty =) and they look kewl x3 I love parades!

I read the the comments posted on the pictures and the arguments going back and forth dont make much sense to me really

Fetish gear is fashion. It is there to serve as a way to bring about sexually arousing ideas and to make a point as all other fashion out there is geared towards. Whether it be tight ripped pants that point out the ass or the big bling chains that rest ohh so "subtly" in the chests of women. Tight skirts and bras as well as low cut shirts are all the craze. And yet this is all considered "normal" and are what arguments are trying to portray that unless you like gangsta and calvin klein you arent normal and its not acceptable?

Im sorry puppy gear and leather is a fashion its a way to express ones ideas and self its no different than any of these other fashion related mainstreams.

Thanks for speaking your mind on this issue, pup.

*pats + scritches*

I have to admit, I found the comments posted against you to be in VERY poor taste. I think they kinda missed the POINT of parades like that. They're INTENDED to cater to that specific side.

And at least in my personal opinion, if their tastes are so vanilla ... why the hell are they in the furry fandom? Our existence ALONE is labeled as a fetish, never mind the fact of how many bizarre fetish categories there are within it. If fetishes make you that uncomfortable, then th' HELL are you doing here? >_>

And I also know for a fact that between the four of them, some are into things like incest and bestiality ... oh, but THIS is weird and they "don't like fetishes". Hello, Pot? Hi, it's Kettle. You're black.

In Finland we had Helsinki Pride last weekend. I was there (though as a watcher.. but maybe next year i'll march.) when a group of idiots attacked the parade with teargas and pepperspray.

Thank <religions main guy (or girl) here> police got em quickly..

It's 2010... what the hell is wrong with those people. How does it affect their lives if some people are gay.. why can't people let other people be what they are?
</rant>

Words of truth pup.. words of truth.

Why the drama? I'll answer your question. But please keep in mind that I'm NOT bashing or hating you, Proxy. I'm just giving my humble opinion. It's totally fine to disagree, but remember... I'm not bashing you, dude. I actually like you a lot.

I'm going to have to apparently play devil's advocate here. 1.3 million people is not at all equal to the sheer amount of people who DON'T like pride parades. I'm not going to bash you at all or hate you or anything, and I respect you for getting out there to do what you like, but have you ever considered this: The goal of the gay community is to gain acceptance and respect from the straight community. Like it or not, that is most likely NOT going to happen when a bunch of gay guys go walking down the street, prancing around in leather gear and ass-less chaps, and such. Think about how many people actually would LIKE to see leather and puppy play. Then compare it to the amount of people who DON'T want to see that. The amount of people who don't want to see that stuff is in the overwhelming majority; so much so, that it pretty much crushes the amount of people who DO want to see it, out of existence.

As much as you're proud to share the things you like, the reality is most people simply DON'T want to know about that kind of stuff, and that's EXACTLY one of the reasons why the gay community or gays as a whole are still being treated like shit TODAY. Because gay guys walk down the street, letting everyone know about their fetishes and about what they like, and such, making complete spectacles of themselves. You really need to take a step back and look at this from an objective point of view; Think about how this affects the gay community as a whole. As much FUN as it is (and I'm sure it's fun), it contributes heavily to the negative reputation that gay people still have, even IN Canada.

Yeah, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and being proud of who you are. That's cool, that's fine, I like that, I support it, but whether you realize it or not, dude, it severely crosses a line when a load of gay people walk down the street making spectacles of themselves like that. You say you doubt many average people know about puppy play or leather fetishes; Proxy, most people don't WANT to know about that kind of stuff! It doesn't MATTER if 1.3 million people actually come to see that, it doesn't matter if people come to see the different/unique parts of the gay community, because you know what? There are probably THREE TIMES as many people who DON'T want to see ANY of that! And if THAT wasn't true, dude, then gay people wouldn't still be going through the kind of bullshit that they go through today. This is exactly one of the main reasons why they do.

It really sucks and I REALLY hate to say it, but the reality of the world is; Most people don't appreciate gay people in the pride parades, because they make spectacles of themselves like this, and most people DON'T want to see that kind of stuff.

Again, I want to make it clear that I'm NOT bashing or hating on you, but you asked why there was so much drama around this. This is exactly why. Because, like it or not, proud or not, happy or not, pride parades are a severe negative mark against the gay community. It's counter-productive, and it doesn't earn gays the respect and acceptance they want from the straight community. Think about this: Is being prideful and sharing your fetishes with people more important to you than the overall respect and acceptance from the straight community to the gay community as a whole?

I believe  2gryphon said it best. And even HE hates pride parades, too.

Here, before any of you bother responding to my comment, please listen to this:

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3716609/

Again, I'm not bashing you or hating you, but you asked why there was drama over this. THIS is one of the reasons why. I wish it was totally okay and it DIDN'T bother people so much that people put on pride parades, BUT IT DOES BOTHER PEOPLE. That's the shitty reality of the world we live in.

yes but then it boils down to a basic, don't want to see it, don't be there.

this statement basicly says that IF THE MAGOURITY DOESN"T WANT TO SEE IT, TO BAD, FUCK YOU.

so what if guys in public want to hold hands...... what are we supost to do, Oh SORRY the mass magourity of the world doesn't liek fags, so u can't do that, or kiss.... or another good example of people stickign there nose in shit is gay marriage, SORRY DOESN:T EFFECT MOST PEOPLE INVOLVED, SO BUTT OUT..... etc.....

sorry not to be an ass, but, i am loud and proud, and i show it how i want. and it boils down to, if u don't wan to see it or hear it, don't.....
I hate x-mas and half the holidays, u don;t see me out protesting my views on shit, u don't see me bang bashing reglious exstreamest, come on....

Sorry, Noble but that's not going to work here either. Dude, check out MY journals. I actually agree with you! I, too, also say things like. "If you don't like it, then don't see it!" I say stuff like that all the time!

But that isn't going to work here.

There's nothing wrong with guys holding hands or kissing in public. I LOVE that, I don't have a problem with that.

Pride parades are an entirely different story. You two guys are part of the gay community. You represent a LARGE group of people who want acceptance and respect from the straight community. YOU two can't come out and just tell the people you want acceptance from to fuck off. You can't tell the people you want respect and acceptance from to simply turn the other cheek and simply NOT look at something they don't like if they object to something that YOUR own community is doing.

"Hey, I want you to accept and respect me"

"Alright. HEY, I don't really like that you're making spectacles of yourself like this. I'd be more inclined to respect you and accept you if you didn't do all this huge stuff. You don't see US as a straight people, doing pride parades, do you?"

"Well, fuck you! If you don't like it, then don't look!"

That doesn't work, dude. You are an ambassador of the gay community, whether you like it or not, you represent the community as a whole, YOUR actions are going to be a reflection of that same community! Therefore you have to consider what it is you do at all times, dude. It's not all about how YOU feel or what YOU want to do; You have to consider the community you're representing.

If you want acceptance and respect from straight people, then you can't simply tell them NOT to look if THEY don't like what you're doing. You can't tell the people you want acceptance and respect from to simply turn the other cheek when THEY object to this sort of stuff. WE want something from THEM. Therefore, we have to EARN it.

but its not about acceptance.... its about minding peoples own business.....

i don;t care if people like me or not regardless if its for being homosexual, furry, fetish thingy... etc....

I wouldn;t care if there was a straight parade, infact i would probably be in that to, cause i'm bi-sexual... not to mention i would do it for shits and giggles.... cause i don't care............ I respect people who don't force there views and shit on people, who arn't ass holes and who don't trying to manipulate people into there mind set.

life is about having fun, and enjoying it. people should not be classified as this this and this. its equality that i stand for.
If i have a problem its not because they are straight, gay, lesbain, black, asian, reglious etc. its about there personality and what they do. if your.... XXXX and a dick to me, i am not gonna judge XXXX in relation to that one person. if your XXXX and have ..... have horrible hygen, i am not gonna relate that to XXXX..... if your XXXX and get an STD, i am not gonna relate that to XXXX. cause everyone is different.

and I will die defending that.

Well, unfortunately, people aren't going to mind their own business, dude. You say this is not about acceptance, but THAT is what the gay community strives for more than anything else right now.

Seriously, Noble, I agree with what you say, but you have to realize, not everyone is going to think the same way that you and I, especially the people the gay community is trying to gain respect and acceptance from.

Your mentality isn't doing the gay community any favours at the moment, dude. And with mentalities like that, gay people are even LESS likely to gain the kind of acceptance and respect that they strive for.

mentalities like that, not giving a shit what others think and everyone is equal, that i don't judge a book by its cover, that i don;t strive to be accepted by everyone in the world, that people should mind there own business?

I'm not here to make XXXX community look perfect. cause i see everyone as an equal and there own person. and thats there i choose to make a difference. and if i am an ass hole or a failure or have a low mentality for viewing everyone as equal and pulling XXXX as a group out of the equation and focus on the person as a whole, then i guess i am a huge ass hole and a huge retard.

I think i am doing the world a favour cause i'm one of the few who doesn't judge someone based on what they are, I judge a person for who they are.

Like I said. Good intentions, but it's not doing much to make the gay community as a whole gain the acceptance that they want.

I've made my points.

I am sorry that you group people like that then.

I agree with Noble, the 1.3 million people there are there because they want to be, I seriously doubt loads of straight people are heading out to the pride parade. This is just like the AC or any other convention, people go because it is an interest of theirs? I mean who would go to AC if they had no interest? Who goes to a pride parade if they are not interested? Ok so maybe a few protesters show up, but 1.3 million people can be wrong for believing in something. The Gov't and everyone else should but out of what we thing is Moral or exceptable in my home. There are lots of stations on the TV, change the channel if you dont like what you are watching. Don't go to a pride parade if you don't like gay people. What gives anyone the right to tell me what I am doing is wrong or right, it's my life and I will celebrate any way I want. people have no right to complain about something they no nothing about. Go out and meet a few gay people before you judge them. Most homophibics have never even met some gay but yet they feel the right to bash them, That's like saying a restaurant sucks because that's what you have heard but you have never been there to eat and form your opinion. Why are gay fetishes picked on more than straight fetishes? If a man and women were doing puppy play, it would be OK, but two guys doing, OH no, the whole world is going to hell! I think people need to worry about themselves and not what thier neighbors are doing. I don't sit around and wonder what my neighbor is thinking about me, who cares, why waste the energy trying to think about what everyone is thinking abut you! Be who you are and who gives a shit what others think!

You know, I actually agree with what you're saying, but as I said before, you have to think about the gay community as a whole and NOT just for yourself. The point is, if the gay community wants respect and acceptance from the straight community, then all this goddamn pride parade stuff IS NOT going to get them the respect and acceptance they want. Period. Understand that. The actions of the gay community MATTER when they are asking something from another community. Think about that.

We are not asking anything from anyone, we are who we are, I don't really give 2 shits what anyone thinks. It's up to them whether or not they want to except it. Not going to sit around and worry about what all the "straight" people on this earth think of me. I do not have the time and energy to sit around and wonder what people are thinking all day. Why should I live a lie just to please straight people? We are who we are. If we cant have a parade and show off who we are, then the parade would look no different than a bunch of straight people walking in a parade! People are so uptight! Relax, dont worry about what I am doing, just take of yourself.

It's not living a lie if you don't have a parade, dude. Calm down for a sec. I agree with you, too, we should just do whatever we like as long as we're not hurting people, but if the gay community wants respect and acceptance, we can't continue to think like that.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a response - but to keep my answer short and sweet - this parade isn't to gain acceptance - it's to celebrate the diversity of the LGBT community! Gays don't walk down streets normally in gear, this is just an opportunity for me to do so :D

A quick response to:

Again, I want to make it clear that I'm NOT bashing or hating on you, but you asked why there was so much drama around this. This is exactly why. Because, like it or not, proud or not, happy or not, pride parades are a severe negative mark against the gay community. It's counter-productive, and it doesn't earn gays the respect and acceptance they want from the straight community. Think about this: Is being prideful and sharing your fetishes with people more important to you than the overall respect and acceptance from the straight community to the gay community as a whole?

I don't see how they are counter productive - the Toronto Pride festival has been becoming more and more popular and will actually be a WORLD Pride event in the year 2014. The reason why - people are curious about 'deviants' in general. I see no harm in doing so, and I don't think I'm hurting the community at all. No matter what, some people will be offended :(

Sorry, Proxy, but you're wrong here. The purpose of the PRIDE ITSELF isn't to gain acceptance, THAT is true.... but acceptance and respect is what the gay community, as a whole, strives for. Walking down the street in leather gear, celebrating your pride isn't going to help the gay community's cause at all. That's why pride parades are counter-productive, because... celebrating your pride in public like that, and making spectacles of yourself DOESN'T earn the kind of acceptance and respect that the gay community wants as a whole.

I completely agree with you, and I respect your quite valid points - the only thing I have to say is that pride parades, or at least the one in Toronto, has evolved from that...

I got to speak with a LOT of people (like 'normal' people) that day, and all had positive comments about what Noble and I wore. Gay rights in Ontario have progressed a lot!!

true as that may be for most your saying you speak for the whole gay community what your saying is like telling drag queens not to dress in drag it doesn't quite make sense to me pride to me and most i know is about showing your pride not just as lgbt but as an individual

Yeah, well, it crosses a line when you have to make a spectacle of yourself at the cost of the respect and acceptance you want as a whole.

i personal do see it as making a spectacle of yourself it just seems to me like people are being just as judgemental as some people are to the lgbt community

damn my spelling sucks meant to say i don't see it as making a spectacle of yourself >.<;;;

Doesn't matter if you see it as that or not. The overwhelming majority of the straight community DOES see it as that. These are the people gay people want acceptance and respect from. They won't get it if the straight people think gay people are making spectacles of themselves.

i just can't find myself to agree with you on this so i'll stop cause i have work to finish but i will say this
i've been going to prides for a few years and i've went in ears tails collars the lot, i did some drag for fun, i've been put in leather i've ran around mostly naked in hot pants in my better looking days yet i've had more people for it all than against i just really can't see where your coming from i've even being working with the lgbt community for a good few years on voluntary basis but then again this is Scotland and not America :p ~goes back to working~

Just because you HEAR more people for it, then those that against it doesn't mean that's actually the way it is. Consider that. Just because people don't outwardly say they don't like it, doesn't mean they actually. don't

i never said people don't like it i don't like the way most normal gays are but i'm not gonna try and stop them or i would feel like a hypocrite either way point is there are people for and people against but still no reason to say there making a fool of themselves or tell them to keep it to themself
this could go on for hours so i'm stopping here i've shared my views and my opinions that's all there is to it

Well, then I guess you didn't comprehend what I said if you're going to sit there and tell me there's no reason to tell them to stop. There's EVERY reason. I've made my points.

yes those are your opinions and your very much entitled to them but as far as i see there only your opinions untill someone else tells me otherwise don't start on me if i don't see things from your point of view we all see things differently

True enough. I guess you can't look at things objectively.

wow just wow i'm trying to be civil, if you want people to try and take on your views you should try the same ;P
so if i said people didn't like furrys wearing fursuits in public should they stop?

That doesn't do as much damage to the reputation of furries as pride parades to the reputation of gay people. I can look at things from your point of view and empathize. They don't work for the benefit of the gay. I'm not trying to be mean, you just proved to me that you can't look at things objectively is all.

oh i can but it doesn't mean i have to change my own personal views so keep your slander to yourself if you wanna continue this take it to notes your just being as stubborn as i am face it thats why your lowering yourself to that kind of attack on me

It's not slander, and it's not an attack. Just an honest observation based on your answers. Anyway, I've made my points.

if you say so but all i was doing was sharing my views and opinions like you there was no need to start that crap now i'm going to sleep for work in the morning so gnight all~<3

Whatever, dude, I didn't start any crap. You took it as an attack on you, but it wasn't.

If I took time to think about it and consulted those with authority and education on the subject, I could come up with theories on why people are so quick to comment negatively from behind the safety of a keyboard.

There's just some kind of short circuit between their brains and their fingers. It's not limited to this community. Look at the comments for many news stories or anything even slightly controversial. The comments make me despair for humanity. It's amazing what people are willing to say to each other over the internet when they would never ever have the guts to say the same to them face to face.

Truly, the best thing for people to do, especially when confronted with the desire to spit out vitriol over the internet, is to step away from the keyboard, and go do something else. There are many individuals I can think of who could well use that advice and perhaps improve their lives.

Now, if only there was a way to delete comments on FA.

Biggest ting, you guys had fun, just like I told Noble
Haters gunna hate
Keep doing what your doing. The positive of the community that supports you is what matters. Now if only I could follow my own rule better for us straight fetish furs lol

These people are idiots.

You're representing a small percentage of the gay community (the percentage involving fetishes and the like). Obviously if there weren't many of you, that will reflect that not every gay person is into those things.

Hell, if you go to a pride parade and it's just mostly people in rainbow gear, the small handful of people there dressed as 'freaks' aren't going to make everyone else look like 'freaks'. I don't see the logic there. The numbers speak for themselves, and a pride parade is about letting it all hang out and expressing yourself for who you are without fear.

If we set standards on pride parades, they wouldn't really be pride parades, now would they? You weren't damaging anyone, you weren't being crude or distasteful in the way you carried yourself. And to be honest I'd rather watch you in your gear hold yourself high and proud than see two 'normally dressed' gay men act like pigs.

In my opinion, THAT'S what scares people away and makes everyone think it's all just about the casual sex.

I'm actually pretty shocked, disgusted, and disappointed at how much negative feedback you got for your pictures. Way to go, FA.

who cares what the haters say you look great

Gays have a pristine image at pride parades?

What?

That's the troll proof right there. Total lie. ;)

Haters will always hate. I'm bisexual (preffering same-sex though) and I get a lot of hate from people about it. Haters hate because they don't understand. The Pride Parade is a thing ogf awesomeness, where all sorts of people can have fun! I'm so happy that you did support the leather community and leather pups ^^ If my mask were in already, you wouldn't have been the only pup there!

It shocks me how much folks seem to get their panties in a twist over you two. So much hate in a group that, frankly, has plenty of folks that sure as shit shouldn't be casting the first stone. Frankly, you seem to be a set of extremely frank, intelligent, articulate, and dare I say? Genuinely nice guys. Do you have some fetishes that I - speaking both specifically and in a larger context - don't share? Sure. Is that a bad thing? Hell no! I enjoy your posts and your thoughts, and am very glad that you do not back down in the face of negative comments, but rather confront them in an adult manner.

Thanks for the kind words! I also have to agree that yes, people DO get their panties in a knot over us lol :D

Proxy.. seriously.. I wouldn't let it get to you.. You and Noble are both awesome people - don't let stupid asshole furs dictate your life.

You both stand up for your beliefs and you support the leather community very well.. If a bunch of idiots can't see that - thats their problem.. don't let it bug you! Besides I'm sure you have more supporters than haters anyway.

So... what is 'normal gay'? And for that matter, what is 'normal' straight? I know several hetero couples into puppy play....

I dunno, I guess that humans in general just confuse me....

WHO CARES WHAT THE STRAIGHT COMMUNITY THINKS! I AM GAY, I CARE WHAT THE GAY COMMUNITY THINKS! So there. XD

Dear people who think Proxy and Noble scared people at the event,

Did you know there are overweight, hairy old men wearing assless chaps and bar vests that routinely march in the parade? Do you not think, perhaps, that Noble and Proxy are, at the very least, generally easier on the eyes?

:P

That is all.

P.S. Good on ya for getting out and enduring the sun and humidity!

first photo caused what...nothing wrong with that at all in my eyes, plus, you guys had the guts to go out and do it in the heat!!!! Come on now, nothing wrong with being who you are, isn;t that what pride is supposed to be about anyway. Shoot, I wanted to fursuit at my local pride parade, got stuck working the whole weekend though :(

I admire how brave, strong and open you both are with regards to this subject.

You both stand up for what you believe in and I think that is a beautiful thing.

I wish you both nothing but love and happiness.

Different is true beauty!

I honestly don't see the freaken haters out walking. Honestly, you guys did something amazing! I'd love to walk my mate in a pride parade. Not only did you have fun, but yoi looked good doing it. You promoted what you believe in, and I support you both that much more for doing it.

You know.. I dont understand why people cant just handle it.. Its not like they have to see it every day and if they dont like it then they dont have to look.. So what you posted the pictures.. That doesnt give them the right to be rude to you.

Did you receive such comments by mail? And were they an organization? Come on, a parade's all about having fun together right? Guess they didn't get that. I suspect they are nothing but trolls doing what they do for lols.

Proxy... trust me i am going to my pride parade soon... Keep it up :3

I'm cool with anything in a pride parade that doesn't involve open sex on the street or exposed buttocks/genitals.

Your photos don't meet either of those criteria so I don't see what the problem is.

I'd like to see what would happen if someone tried to do a "straight pride" parade with many of the same not-so-tame displays that goes on at some gay pride parades.

Straight people are into fetishes as well...

Straight people are into fetishes as well...

Oop - sorry about the double post...

No problem about the double post

True, straight people have fetishes to, though I was thinking of what the reaction from the public might be. You may have heard of that "Strippermobile" in Vegas that was forced to shut down. Makes me wonder how the public would react to an entire parade with straight people

I understand your anger over this, but if I'm not mistaken, it isn't a fetish pride parade, its a gay, bi and lesbian parade isn't it?

It's a "pride" parade to celebrate the diversity of the LGBT community so really it's everything and anything :)

You only just confirmed my wquestion, its a lesbian, gay bisexual and transexual parade. I have seen pride parades for that as well as pride parades for bsdm. I havent ever seen em together though, I think because it promotes the steroeotype that all gays or trannys or bisexuals are involved in somewhat extreme bsdm. Its fine to be wanting to be proud of who you are, but there are times and places for everything. That said, was anyone else there dressed in bondage gear?

Yes.

And it was the time and the place...

If you looked at any of the pics... you would see that yes others are in leather etc...

meh maybe so, i dunno, but they might be gettign the same amount of flack, just like a guy trying to pull that off outside of a parade.

Upon thinking about this please take this into consideration. You don't hear about normal furries in the news, you hear about the nutbars. The general public believes that this is how all furries are because of this. The same might be holding true for those people offended by yall dressing up in fetish gear. Fetish gear isn't required to be gay or lesbian, but the general public might see that as one of the extremes and use it to misrepresent the rest of the gay/bi/lesbian/blahblahblahtoomanytolistdamnit people. Given that again, the parade had nothing to do with feitsh or pride in general, it was the homosexual/transexual/bisexual pride which was focused on here, you couldh ave just as easily been proud of yourself and gone in regular clothing but shown up to represent your gayness. (and i dont say gayness as derogatory but it seems to sound that way to me lol)

I actually wouldn't have been able to go in the parade in my normal clothing - as we were asked by our local leather shop well, to go in leather :)

I understand your point of view, just understand mine :)

On a side note, there were also people in fursuits in the parade :)

hahhaa were any of em wearing Nobles adult suits?

and keep in mind that wasnt my point of view, it was just speculation of others pov. I really couldnt care either way.

normaly i wouldn't comment
i mean i am an unknown
no one realy knows me so why should any one care what i have to say...

anyway

you know what they say be your self.... and conform...
personaly i just go with the be your self part or try to go with it any way...

i am reminded of an event in my past that might be relavent but i don't feel like making it public record...

and i am reminded of college when i brought a straitjacket with me for the most part professors would ignore it, security would give me funny looks, and dozens of students would ask to try it on.. and that was mid may....
yes some times people made stupid coments but mostly it was just fun for all... though it is many steps below you and maby in college people are more tolerant cause they party so much.... and still i will be honest i probably wouldn't have the guts to do what you did and thats my loss...

and i supose to answer your question of why all the drama... realy i think some people live for drama...

but

in the end you did something to show pride in who you are.
and if others don't like it they can close their eyes and hum real loud till its over so they can continue along in their perfect little fantasy...

if only more people had the guts to be proud of who they are.

Okay, so how can an opinionated pup remain silent... :P

Pride was originally brought about by the hatred and bigotry of the Political and Judicial establishments against homosexuals. A rebellion began at the Stonewall Inn in NYC in June 1969 that was a kick in the nuts to the establishment that was heard around the world. Led by transvestites in a battle against the police, gays took a stand and said, leave us be and stop harassing us, because we're people too!

Fast forward to today, 41 years later... in an attempt to promote LGBT diversity, every year a parade/festival is held to allow people to come out and either be themselves, or become their fantasy, which for whatever reason they are unable to live throughout the year. Pride is about self pride and the acceptance of diversity. It has nothing, or very little to do with sex, perversity, or pushing an agenda on normal society. Just as Mardi Gras is an extravagant street festival, Pride is too. Since the media loves a spectacle, most people just see the weirdness of Pride, not the love and affection of hundreds of thousands, and even millions who turn out to show their support... lets face it, normality never makes the news because who cares about banality.

Those that come out in fetish gear and/or costumes are only looking to express themselves in a festive environment. Those that only see the fetishes should try and look deeper, because there are also non-LGBT attendees who march in the parade under banners of support for their children, parents, friends, co-workers, and fallen loved ones.

That said, for personal reasons i refuse to attend Pride any more... it's been tarnished by recent events that make me feel very unwelcome by some members my own community. Maybe one day when the hurt isn't so strong i'll attend again...

Don't let the likes of them get to you. I believe that everyone has the right to be who they want to be. You, walking along with the Pride Parade is because you care, and because you are and respect them. You expressed yourself. That means you care for the rights for other people. You're people too, and deserve the respect like all other people get. We also support Gay Rights here in England. There was even a parade for that too. Unfortunately I couldn't watch, but I saw them go by and waved as they waved to their supporters, because I respect them :)