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How not to hire an artist + thourghts
15 years ago
General
I really couldn't have said it better than sejael did, so i'll just leave it to her because it pretty much mirrors my exact thourghts down to the tiniest detail...
"This has been circulating around the internet, and especially DA, like wildfire. So to those who have read it, please bear with me, and to those who have not, please go over and read the article.
http://kaitol.com/how-to-hire-an-artist/
Now, let's start by getting it all out of the way that that article made me cringe. For aspiring artists who want to make a career out of what they do, this type of customer is the one you must avoid at ALL costs. It is a surefire way to get yourself screwed over sideways. His "apology" isn't particularly an apology at all, but there is something to point out - we artists are at fault for "customers" like these thinking they can take advantage of us.
Now, there is something here that must be pointed out - this guy is able to exploit the artistic community because we as a collective fail to educate ourselves about how the business of art goes. He would not be able to write this if every artist out there, new and old alike, took an initiative in learning about pricing, contracts, and the like. The reason he says professional artists cost an arm and a leg is exactly BECAUSE they know what they're doing - and the rest of us who are just willing to work for pennies, or because we need cash now; well, we're the ones who get the short end of the stick.
So if you want to argue with the guy, go ahead and do it over at his journal (although, I personally think that reading through the comments, you'll find everything that can be said); but I think it is something that we must all keep reminding each other of. Learn about your trade, Learn about what others are doing, how much they're charging, and charge accordingly to your level of skill. Learn about contracts, so that you have it written down. If we don't protect our own behinds over stuff like this when it comes up, no one is looking out for our personal protection against exploitation."
This was re-posted by permission: http://comments.deviantart.com/5/34.....275/1609739746
This post was origonally written by: http://sejael.deviantart.com/
And you can see her journal entry right here: http://sejael.deviantart.com/journal/34167275/
My little addition:
Artists online feel like they have to under-sell themselves because other artists offer things for cheaper than what they should, and if we raise our prices too high we simply can't compete with that!
There needs to be a change in the way artists charge for their work, they have no respect for their own self-worth and are seriously underselling themselves.. which in turn, forces other artists (like me) to drop our prices just to compete.
I wouldn't mind hearing everyones thourghts on this topic. Do you agree that artists should charge at least equal to the minimum wage, or do you disagree? Why?
"This has been circulating around the internet, and especially DA, like wildfire. So to those who have read it, please bear with me, and to those who have not, please go over and read the article.
http://kaitol.com/how-to-hire-an-artist/
Now, let's start by getting it all out of the way that that article made me cringe. For aspiring artists who want to make a career out of what they do, this type of customer is the one you must avoid at ALL costs. It is a surefire way to get yourself screwed over sideways. His "apology" isn't particularly an apology at all, but there is something to point out - we artists are at fault for "customers" like these thinking they can take advantage of us.
Now, there is something here that must be pointed out - this guy is able to exploit the artistic community because we as a collective fail to educate ourselves about how the business of art goes. He would not be able to write this if every artist out there, new and old alike, took an initiative in learning about pricing, contracts, and the like. The reason he says professional artists cost an arm and a leg is exactly BECAUSE they know what they're doing - and the rest of us who are just willing to work for pennies, or because we need cash now; well, we're the ones who get the short end of the stick.
So if you want to argue with the guy, go ahead and do it over at his journal (although, I personally think that reading through the comments, you'll find everything that can be said); but I think it is something that we must all keep reminding each other of. Learn about your trade, Learn about what others are doing, how much they're charging, and charge accordingly to your level of skill. Learn about contracts, so that you have it written down. If we don't protect our own behinds over stuff like this when it comes up, no one is looking out for our personal protection against exploitation."
This was re-posted by permission: http://comments.deviantart.com/5/34.....275/1609739746
This post was origonally written by: http://sejael.deviantart.com/
And you can see her journal entry right here: http://sejael.deviantart.com/journal/34167275/
My little addition:
Artists online feel like they have to under-sell themselves because other artists offer things for cheaper than what they should, and if we raise our prices too high we simply can't compete with that!
There needs to be a change in the way artists charge for their work, they have no respect for their own self-worth and are seriously underselling themselves.. which in turn, forces other artists (like me) to drop our prices just to compete.
I wouldn't mind hearing everyones thourghts on this topic. Do you agree that artists should charge at least equal to the minimum wage, or do you disagree? Why?
"IF YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOURSELF. HOW IN THE WORLD WILL ANYONE RESPECT YOU?"
You are correct, artists who put themselves down constantly and even include writers and composers as well drag others down as well.
That's never good.
There's a big difference Elitism and Having Confidence.
I can't be bothered with artists who constantly put themselves down.
Yes strive for perfection and the very best. But PLEASE, stop with the false modesty and self depreciation.
I do agree with you.
I really don't like it when people try to fake modesty by just putting themselfs down- it is harmful to them, and there is NOTHING I can do or say to get them to stop and see the positives in their own work. I'm starting to beleive that many people just do it as a way for others to validate them.
When I was starting to take art seriously in highschool ALL of my art friends where better than me at It. Every. single. one.
I'm sure I hated my art back then, and sometimes I still find myself thinking "if only I was better at this, that or the other..". But I don't think I ever took up the habit of complaining about it to people. If it was a shitty artwork I just worked on it. Complaining just makes a person sound weak, and looking for people to say "noo, your art is GOOD" is not going to make your art good- it will only validate the fact that the only way people compliment you is if you pressure them into it.
Theres a BIG difference between being able to spot errors in your work and asking for feedback, and bad-mouthing your art as a way to get compliments.
Also, artists who undercharge, or don't charge at all on the basis that they ENJOY making art- durf hurf.
Teachers, doctors, politicials ALL may enjoy their jobs- Artists are no different
THEY have ruined the online artists economy.
Usually when I price to the fandom (which is rare these days at best), I try to keep up that $20 an hour rate, but I sometimes have to half that price. I am still in the middle-upper tier of pricing. It drives me crazy to see other artists, really really GOOD artists undercharge.
There is a saying, "Quality, time, price. Pick two." but honestly here in the fandom I've had several experiences with people who can provide all three. I don't think they'll be able to keep it up for long honestly, I think that's why some artists burn out.
I think lately things have been changing for the better. More people are willing to spend the 'big' bucks to get what they want, and there are a bunch of fandom artists who are really professional and know what their time and expertise are worth.
Real artistz make a Lotta money when They own everything an they're Contracted through a company rather than Say, maybe somebody tryin 2 Score a single page of artwork or even a Tattoo, even the Whole Craigslist nonsense....
I just Browse through an Artist'z journal, find out How long they usually Complete something I may enjoy, Then I'll pay up front when They open commissionz so It'z kinda standard around Here with Buyer and Seller Beware....
So here is a link to a_b that explains a great deal on the breakdown of how artists should be charging per hour: http://community.livejournal.com/ar.....re/361795.html
I personally tend to charge between $10 and $20 an hour depending on how fast I can get the work done. Sometimes I can do a colored sketch in 20 minutes and i charge $10 for them, so my hourly rate for that is ACTUALLY very decent. However, the problem isn't how fast i can push out product, it's how I can keep up a demand FOR my product, which is the difficult part when you are solely a commission artist. This mean that if you work full time on art that is, 30+ hours a week), that you also need a one commissioner every day or so that wants something between $50 and $150 to obtain a decent income for a lower middle class wage.
The arrogance of the journal is what got me the most, but Ididn't respond and I didn't repost it for all the world to se. I think every single person on my watch list did that for me. The thing is to not dwell on things. Learn from your mistakes and carry on.
And, as for that guy, I hope all of the artists he used previously go after him for unpaid wages after reading that. Other than that, there's not much we can do to teach him how to treat people.