Correct.
That's why we need to watch current situation carefully.

If laws were clear, we wouldn't need governments.

That's wry joke.
These laws are too vague to compare to other laws.

i think cub porn should be illegal anywhere in the world like loli and shota anime etc

Could you let me know the reason you have?

Today its someone elses fetish...tomorrow, it will be yours. And Loli is barred in certain places, not all over...and if you don't like it there IS the back button.

I disagree.

I believe that real CP, is perfectly illegal and should stay that way. Child abuse is honestly something sick. However Cub porn and such, in my mind is not the same thing. It's fictional, and it has been proven, that the whole idea of ."I'll look at shota/loli etc. does -not- really lead people to then abuse children.

It's a form of artwork, regardless of it's content should not be penalized for being drawn or looking at said art. IF I go out and start molesting hildren I've forfeited my rights.

ok all of you are right sorry

It's not that weir right man. You're more than entitled to your opinion. I'm simply stating my own.

No no do not say so.
You had reason to refuse cub art...right?
Please describe your motivation here. There is no right thing and no wrong thing...I just want to know everyone's opinion either yes or not to cub porn. I at least will not blame your comment whatever you describe. If you hesitate to make a comment here, please send me a note.

i must say i do like it but only when is nudes and does not include poop or pee or sexual themes thats the part i think is wrong for me the rest of it is good

Thank you.
Your first comment came from your flavor. I understand.
Actually people like you eventually watch cub porn, that would be shocking for them, I think. I will try to put thumnails in order to avoid such a situation.
By the way, how do you impress my works? Do you want avoid to watch some of my works?

cool but i must say when is art like your all that does not matter lol because of its cuteness

I was relieved to here that. Thanks!
I hope you will enjoy my future works in FA.

i do like em i might not like certain things some furries do but yeah i am ok with this too bad i cant see it as my filter is working

Lolicon is most definitely illegal in Canada. There was a case here a couple years back about a guy importing lolicon mangas, and he was charged (and convicted) as though it was child pornography.

Yes, that was well known story in Japan. Do you think same think will happen on cub porn in future?

Which is really stupid. Why waste resources chasing after drawings when it can be better spent on chasing REAL OFFENDERS!?

EXACTLY!

Because it's easier and takes less effort; they don't really care about helping real children, only about publicity and their careers.

Which in a just world those people would be put away for TWICE as long as the people wrongfully jailed.

I completely agree with you.
Unfortunately it looks most politicians tend to move "easier" way.

This is because they are politicians, and are concerned only with making themselves look good, rather than actually doing anything of any worth.

Like someone else said, these laws about whether the porn is illegal or not is very vague.. not to mention confusing...

I was curious and tried reading the one for America, but.. I didn't understand any of it. Makes you wish they could just say 'yes it's illegal' or 'no it's not illegal' and leave it at that.

It is neccessary to judge some pics in court. But no one wants to be artis of these pics...I think.

Yeah I guess so. Though these are just lines on a paper? What is the problem o.o but yeah showing them to kids would be but otherwise.. come on >>

Read:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:14041124

I hope so.
But I wanna discuss this topic if everything goes wrong.

It's really stupid when it all boils down. I suppose some people are getting sick of not bringing in enough REAL child rapists, so they're bringing in people on there computers to bolster there numbers. The number of morons who cannot separate fiction from reality is astounding.

The Admin's barred Loli here, but kept cub...what is the ASS BACKWARDS reasoning for that!? They say cub is illegal in Canada, yet the policies were not changed...the UK throws a fit about the stuff and the get rid of the HUMANOID equal, rather than going with "keep all or ban all", but NO, hairs had to be split. I believe that there is nothing wrong with the DRAWN content. Also, it helps with keeping more "aggressive" folk from pursuing underage tail by giving them an out.

At the end of the day it boils down to this...would you rather have some creep jaking off to Lolicon or raping someones child? I would hope your answer is the former, and with fewer outs for them, the latter will INCREASE! They thought they had issues NOW!? Wait till this crosses all lines. You'll be seeing A LOT more kids exploited. It would be easier to give them an our rather than kill them outright, because there's not enough room in prisons and this thing will NEVER cease as long as a human walks the earth.

On that note, I wish someone in Japan would make a Loli/Shota sharing site that's friendly for English speaking users with more open views. Sure, if you HATE the fetish, that's fine...but today its another person's fetish...tomorrow, it will be yours. You got people who believe Furry is bestiality...if this slope continues in this downward spiral then there will be NO PORN LEFT!

You're perfectly entitled to your belief, but even YOU might agree that it would be more worthwhile to chase after people whom exploit real children?

Of course it would. And besides, for every one person they try to lock up for exploitation of a drawn kid, that's one person exploiting REAL kids falls off the radar.

I agree.

Drawn contents are innocent. However to show them to kids should be illegal. There should be a system to seclude fetish adult materials from kids and who don't want to watch them, that's fine. Like kids cannot enter adult toys shop.

Recent statistics shows no relationship between drawn contents and sexual exploitation to real children. In Japan, sad to say most popular perpetrator of sexual abuse of kids are parent(s) and relative(s). And number of cases of sexual exploitation per certain population in Japan was less than Canada and other countries.

The last sentence you describe is very interesting. I basically do not care of other’s fetish. But I hate to be shown them forcedly. Anyway there is some groups which intentionally realize “no porn world”, your sentence would not be joking.

It's less because they are more TOLERANT of Loli/Shota/Todd in those countries then in others. Seriously, you need to to bring this to the attention of folks in Japan, have them speak to some world leaders, show the hard data and MAYBE we'll see some progression in the right direction.

Then again, this is the fatal flaw when the country you live in (mine being North America) is founded on RELIGION rather than REASON!

And I fear that "no porn world" will be closing in fast. I'm not asking for the world to embrace it fully, but to at least let it be, and focus on the real offenders.

The reason people want to censor fictional cub/underage artwork is because they have a zero tolerance standpoint on the issue. Real child abuse is so socially unacceptable that some people/countries think it's the worst imaginable offense to commit besides murder, and sometimes even worse than murder. So, since the overwhelming majority of individuals think that child abuse is evil, politicians like using that familiarity to gain support from the masses, and reinforce peoples' beliefs with stupid laws to invent the illusion of security. They claim making fictional material illegal will stop people from exposing themselves to the material and transforming into a real pedophile, or if there's a blackout on any underage material period, the few who are interested in such material will be ratted out and exposed. Unfortunately, these politicians loose track of reality when they do this, because they're saying to fantasize or imagine about and act makes you guilty of the actual crime, even if only to a lesser degree. It's kind of like that movie Minority Report, where they convict people guilty of the crime before they actually commit it, thinking they can reliably predict peoples' actions to total certainty.

In America, we've basically said you can't make the human imagination illegal unless you're conspiring to commit a crime. If there's no conspiring to actually hurt people, then you're thoughts and fantasies are totally legal. I think this is totally rational, and it's a shame that they only got around to rationalizing fictional material in the 21st century, rather than having the common sense to realize the fallibility of prohibition earlier on.

BTW, this all fits under the headline of "victimless crimes", to which degree I also think drugs should be legalized, and people should be able to commit suicide via medial intervention (another act that has been recently legalized). Let's legalize marijuana in the US and get it over with too. I don't like abortions, but I think it's the woman's right to choose. Most of these just follow under the rationale of common sense, but common sense isn't so common in the world anymore.

I'm Glad that i didn't have to point this out to people. Your right about to everything you say except the drug thing.(technically marijuana is a herb, not a drug) People just don't have the actual common sense to see through the absolute crap they are enforcing upon us.

It's not just enforcement, it's social conditioning. I don't think the people should let the government program them to think how they want. It's the people that should be enforcing their will on the government. The government is diverting away from the will of the people at and accelerating rate. I think more people need to read the Declaration of Independence, and start uncovering the will our country was founded on:

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Maybe we haven't reached this moment yet, but I think we're heading there quicker than many people realize.

i believe that society and government in most stand points is wrong. America for example, This country was founded and practically ruled by religion for awhile. What the hell. I'd rather have logic and reason governing how things role rather than a spew about crap that is very unproven in any way. And here comes a funny part. In the bible(Cristian i believe) there is a verse that says something like, "I'd rather have you RAPE my UNDERAGE daughter... than have you rape or hurt a guest at my house."

Really.. it has something like that in there? Yes, it does. I believe in logic and reason not this spew of crap that religion gives out.

Pretty much, religious nutjobs are on a rampage trying to force christianity into our government, but thankfully we have people like me that will protect our Constitution and work hard to stop them every step of the way.

Driving drunk is illegal, and there are second-hand smoke related laws and regulations. If other drugs were legal, I think the same rules should be implemented. It should still be illegal to sell drugs without a license, and being under the influence in certain circumstances should still be illegal. And of course, if you're cooking meth in an apartment building, that should be illegal too. But I should be able to grow and use marijuana, and even sell it with a license, and the same for poppy, mushrooms, and other organic drug-related materials.

Apparently, loli hentai is illegal in the US. But it's still quite easy to obtain.

If tat were the case, why would Hentai Foundry have it still? There seems to be HEAPS of misinterpretation here.

According to the Wiki page, a man was arrested for getting loli hentai. Given, it was found he also had real child porn, but the original charge of the loli stood.

I guess it's one of those things they only hit you with when you're already going to jail, but don't enforce alone.

I'm not deleting my collection. Fuck that. XD It's all good artwork.

Yes. That inconsistent fact made people confused and made laws vague.

Only human loli/shota porn is illegal at some of the countries.

At this moment, yes. Cub materials is safe.
But...as long as there are people who think cub porn is same as real child porn, I am not sure situation won't change in future.

Well of one thing we can be sure when something becomes illegal they'll be people who anyway bring it for all those who want pay for it so say lets forbidden this not make people stop of want it thats a fact, but why make illegal something thats the point, guns by example they are really dangerous on wrong and even the "right" hands so they'll be forbidden at the US but they are not in fact are more easy of get than a minor get a beer and its sad, so this thing of make illegal some short of the porn art like is loli and shota, just are because the... mmm... lets say the "uncultured" for not say ignorant and don't forget the people who also are religious <.< think is wrong and because for them is wrong then is bad for all but the most bad thinking of then is a draw is a living being which is not we can agree on that for sure and that people make hard law can say "hey what you ask is just silly" but government had to make it illegal by those people pressuring, we see it all the time stupid laws come out because the people want that kind of law, so what you get when ignorant people pressure the ignorant [in most of the cases but in others not] government people in charge of create the laws? well easy you get insane, unneeded, and even exaggerated laws to "pretend" protect but just kill a lil bit more each day our freedom.

And also a last fact we should know respect each others and cooperate if we don't want stupid laws coming, because we are a lot of people on a single country and each one think different from the others and laws mean to put order all of them but in overreacted way.

I like cub being tender being naughty being all because is just a darn draw is not a living thing and i'm a cub also but i have more than 18 years in rl so you will tell me one day of this will be illegal if i do a draw of a legally adult person but that looks like a cub of 5 years just because my fursona is a cub an di wanted express myself? no i don't really want that happen one day.

Oh it will at this rate...soon, you won't even be able to draw Gnomes/halflings or ANYTHING really feminine looking with a flat chest and is short without someone ringing up the pedo alert on some poor shumck who just happens to like flat chested females and feminine looking males.

Seems like everything will need to have Double D's and look macho beyond belief to remove any doubt. And it's silly, there's waaaay too much Loli/Shota/Todd floating around already, and people will find a way. they will commission it under the table, someone will start a site in a foreign country where it will be accepted openly and just move all activities there and that jazz.

God I hate this world and most of the people who inhabit it.

XD I'll hate that

here's my take on things:

the reson they kept young animal pr0n and removed anything appearing to be child pr0n is simply based on the fact that cubs are young animals. as such, young animals can freely express themselves sexually as "they are not human" now I myself had a chunk of my gallery wiped due to the fact that I had short people, that are of a legal age, engaging in sex & sex acts removed... mainly because of some killjoy. three specific characters however have a medical issue, and by law as listed on the link, excludes them from it being obscene.

no matter, I got my justice from what was wiped in a sense of poetic justice. so for example, let's say you draw a pic of two human girls in lesbo action. this is wrong in accordance with the fact that the girls are underage children. now let's use a similar pic, but instead of two young girls, use did it with Momo and Downy. since the two animals are being depicted, and there's nothing wrong with animal porn, it gets to slide.

most animals are bred yound in real life, so I believe that is the context as to why cub material isn't deemed illegal

not unless they want a death wish

The one time the Canadian authorities looked at Softpaw, they said there is no problem with it. You can see it on the allowed imports list here: http://www.gomorrahy.com/

It was reviewed in the July to Sept 2007 file here http://www.gomorrahy.com/cbsa-piu-q3-07.pdf

Search for "Softpaw" or go to page 16. You can see it was allowed.

The rgeat thing is, under Canadian law it is very clear that only images of HUMANS are a problem. Thanks to past court cases involving furry artwork in Canada, furry art is considered ANIMALS. Whee!

That's awesome.
Thank you so much. I was relieved at this moment.
I hope this decision (in 2007) will keep in future.

I found some Japanese adult animations were prohibited. Generally regulation of Japanese animation is quite severe compared to comics. No underage characters are not allowed in these animations. So it seemed that Canadian group banned these animations because of thier look.

ThAt may be so but a furry convention does not control the laws of Canada

私もこれからロリケモなどを多く量産するでしょうから各国の法的な仮想イメージにおけるポルノグラフィを規制する動きに出ないかと動向を注視しております。
国連機関のUNICEFは要注意だと思いますね。先進国の間で広まっている同人漫画やエロゲなどで未成年者の性的行為が含まれていることによってリアルでレイプ犯罪などを誘発しているのではないかという懸念を示している為に、各国でその法整備を促すように本格的にアピールするようになるとバーチャルな創作物まで法律違反であるかのように取り扱う国が増えてきそうですね。オーストラリアにおいてシンプソン家族のようなデフォルメが強いキャラクタでさえ性描写などがあると所持だけで逮捕というケースがありましたが、キャラクターが人間ではなくケモノだったらどういった対応になったのだろうかと創造してしまいますが、やはり裁判官や陪審員の見た目や道徳観などを考慮してみると動物同人エロ漫画も人ロリ漫画も同じようにわいせつで淫らな公衆道徳に反した創作物として起訴されてしまう可能性は大であろうと想像します。

日本の場合はまだ"表現の自由"という憲法理念が根強いのと大手業界が真っ向から反対しているのでロリショタに対する逆風は<今のところ>吹いてはおりませんが、石原都知事が法制化に躍起になって取り組もうとしていますので今後の行方が気になりますね。

Revenfoxさんがロリケモを量産する、と書かれたことに興奮したっす！
もしFAでロリケモ禁止になっても、どこかでこっそり楽しみましょうね（笑）

で、まじめな話、確かにUNICEFや日本ユニセフの動向は注意すべきですね。彼らは正確なロジック抜きにして大衆の感情に訴えてきますから。未成年の性被害において、加害者は本当にコミックやアニメの影響なのか、そのデータや研究が十分でないままコトを進めようとしているのが危険で、彼らの論理がまかりとおると、実際には害がほとんど無いマイナーな嗜好や思考が次々と消される可能性がありますね。

確かにケモノは実在しないのですが裁判官・陪審員の脳内で「エロい・きもい・消したい・理解できない」と判断され、そこにまことしやかな論理をコーティングして違法となる可能性はあると考えています。どうやらRevenfoxさんと私の危惧は似ているようです。今でこそロリショタエロは日本で合法ですが、業界の自主規制（出版社・同人イベント）で事実上流通から消えた過去があるので、調子に乗って過激にしつづけると、またお灸を据えられる可能性はありますね。我々の趣味活動を広めるのは、基本的に社会常識が要求される企業・団体によって支えられているので、それを意識しないといけません。

私は基本的に表現の自由を尊重しますが、社会正義や倫理に反する事象が大きくなった場合に社会はそれを消そうとする、という社会の仕組みも尊重します。つまり、おおっぴらに言えない趣味は隠れてやりなさいよ、そうすれば長く楽しめるよ、ということです。表現の自由を盾に好き勝手振る舞うことこそ自殺行為です。なんとなく日本のイラスト・コミック・アニメ業界は自殺行為をじわじわ行っているように見えます。

they are really not clear about the laws, even when you look them up, which is what makes it so confusing. even if you read about it, they dont say. im in the us though, its even confusing here

That's a vagueness.
In order to make them more clear, some cases will needed. But no one wants to be victim.

It annoys me that modern legislation has lost the principle of preserving freedom and using reason as the basis for the new laws. Many things that are not understood are feared, and the modern society seems to favor banishment of those things rather than trying to understand them. With the media threatening the legislators with bad publicity, they have no other choice but to go with the stream in order to preserve their status.

The current trend is to try to fix problems by passing laws, which are then interpreted literally and applied mechanically. Supposedly it is more "fair" to all classifications of people that way.

the only reason I know of is that there are some types of drawn porn that blur the line between drawing and real and makes it difficult to tell which is which.

All this "War among Cub Lovers and Cub Haters" is ruining the cuteness of our colorful imaginary world D':
You and me are here by the same reason; for the drawing, and enjoyment of cuteness in innocent pictures... So, I think we should just... forget about those horrible and senseless laws, and enjoy the cuteness

Yes, we want to just enjoy cuteness of small furry characters. We need to think how to behave/act in order to enjoy such pictures in future. Answer has not been clear yet, but I can say that "to know current siatuation of laws" "to discuss with various people" and "to act based on your own thought" are absolutely important.

Indeed. For Now, I'll "Froze" this topic on my gallery, until know what's goin' on with this problem we have with laws. I'm scared about talk of it. So I don't know if ask my watchers something similar to this. I can't decide. Should I do it?

I respect your thought. And decision depends on each person.
So please do what you want to do.

I wouldn't allow discrimination against the sick and twisted in my household.

im going to tell you a little secret even if the thing go bad and loli get illegal they cant find you why because to do that they must go ilegal in searching your ip adress they cant do that the other way they can find you if you have a real direction post or something like that

but dont worry i assure you that cub porn, lolicon, shota not gonna be banned is art there is far way worst things in this world, they are just doing this to try to control ppl to put in their minds that if you dont express the way they want u to be, you cant exist but thats not true we humans are all different and we like different stuff and this things dont hurt anybody, then who they are to stop us for like in it, they are no body,

they never gonna banned and even if they do that thing gonna dissapear in a month because internet cant be stopped and art is eternal to me the only illegal stuff should be the real stuff but you still see that out there and they do nothing to stop it.

that is my opinion and i hope this help you to rethink that decision you make because there is no one that can stop you for making things that make you happy so dont stop and keep moving forward fear, is just state of mind

upps the last part was not for you i just repost this here to make my point here and there

At this moment, most people and myself think any cub art is legal worldwide.
I just keep my eye open to watch the movement in the world :3