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More pontifications of an animation fan...
15 years ago
General
One of the mot enjoyable things that happen at the Prancing Skiltaire parties are the interesting conversations I have with others about subjects I like... like animation.
One of the party attendees I spoke with a few months ago is working on a project about adult animation, and asked me to answer some questions based on the conversation we had. I was very flattered. :)
> I don't know if you remember me, but I've met you a few times at Prancing Skiltaire parties. To help you remember, I was the female. (Oh, also I'm tall, blonde, Slender-Horned Gazelle Fursona.) We talked a lot about animation, and you seemed very knowledgeable about the subject; I believe you said you met Tex Avery and interviewed Ralph Bakshi.
Yes, I certainly remember you. I enjoyed talking with you about animation, and would love to continue our conversation some time.
>
> I'm writing an alternative story form article on animation for my blog/journalism class. I thought I'd write about adult animation, and it's due Monday. Yes it's short notice, but headlines and deadlines are the way of the journalist. Would you mind answering these questions for me? I would be really grateful.
I'll give it my best shot...
>
> 1. What is your name, age, and occupation? What are your credentials related to animation? Work, interest, people you've interviewed or met?
Mark Merlino, 58, Communications Engineer. I'm an animation fan. I was interested in animation from the time I saw "Art in Animation" at Disneyland in 1959 (I was 7). While attending college and Cal Poly University, a met Chuck Jones at a lecture, and joined ASIFA Hollywood (The International Animated Film Society). During my last 2 years at Cal Poly, I spent my spare time in LA, visiting animation studios and tracking down the legends that were, surprisingly, still around and quite interested in speaking with me. I met and spoke with Bob Clampett, Fred (Tex) Avery, Chuck Jones, Mike Maltese, Stephen Bosustow, Ralph Bakshi, Don Christiansen, June Foray, Bill Scott, Carl Bell, Robert Klein, and many others. I collected art from 30 studios and artists for an art show at the Cal Poly student union gallery for my "Art Of Animation" show in June 0f 1975. Since the 1990s, animation fans have contributed their interest and knowledge to projects like the ASIFA archives, so the importance of fans is now well recognized by the education establishment and the production industry.
>
> 2. What do you think are the best animated movies for adults? Why?
This is tricky. I believe animation is a medium that can tell a story to anyone, of any age. It's only in the US where animation is considered "kids stuff". Films like "Fritz the Cat" and other Bakshi films like "Heavy Traffic" and "Coon Skin" broke the barrier of animation for adults with controversial content and earned R and X ratings. The quality of these films is open to debate. One of my favorite animated films is "Lupin III, Castle of Cagliostro". It's one of the famous Japanese film director Hayao Mizaki's films, and is an action/adventure story with no "adult" content (possibly PG), but it stands alone as a fine film that just happens to be animated. "Wings of Honneamise" (Royal Space Force) is a brilliant science fiction film with a documentary feel that would not be rated 'R', but is not a "kids film". The German animated feature based on the animal noir detective story "Felidae" is definitely NOT for children, with it's horrible scenes of animal cruelty, violence and sex, but it is a great film, and very loyal to the international best selling book. Both of Richard Adam's animal novels "Watership Down" and "Plague Dogs" were compelling dramatic stories (best selling novels) that became excellent animated films, but not for young children. These are some of the titles that I am familiar with. Certainly there are many more animated films that are targeted for young adults and adults, many coming form Japan and Europe.
Why? Because animation is the ultimate creative medium for film. The creators have complete control over every aspect of the work. The only limitation is imagination.
>
> 3. What do you think are the best animated shows for adults? Why?
Animated TV shows for an adult audience is a restrictively new thing, though prime-time animation for TV is not. Shows like "The Flintstones" were designed for family viewers, and based on classic sit-coms like "The Honeymooners". The humor in Jay Ward shows like "Rocky and Bullwinkle", George of the Jungle", and "Hoppity Hooper" was often way over the heads of younger viewers. Shows like "The Simpsons" and "Family Guy" are the new prime-time animated comedy shows, with even more content designed for older teens and adults. Cable networks had much more latitude when creating content, so after shows like "Ren and Stimpy" pioneered gross-out humor, shows like "South Park", "Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law" and "Drawn Together" played can-you-top-this with off-the-wall and tasteless referential humor that was specifically not for a young audience.
Why? Once again, animation allows total creative control. It is possible to create entertaining shows with very limited animation, so the production costs may be lower in some cases then live action.
>
> 4. Which ones do you think were particularly pivotal in the animation industry? Why?
Certainly Disney proved that it was possible to create full-length animated films that audiences would enjoy, and would make back their cost of production. UPA studio proved that limited animation could be as good a story teller as the expensive Disney feature product, and studios like Hanna Barbara, Jay Ward and Filmation proved it was possible to make animated TV shows that would be inexpensive to produce and still be popular. Today, the studios aren't as important as individual creators and teams that develop shows like Gargoyles, Swat Cats, Sponge Bob Square Pants and Samurai Jack. The studios only produce the shows, and just about any production house can make any kind of animation, much the process has been in Japan for decades.
> 5. What kind of effect do you think adult animation has on the public?
In the US, the huge output of animated media is creating an audience that either appreciates animation, or treats animation as a universal medium, not simply Kids Stuff. I doubt we will see animated pornography show up on major TV or even cable networks in the future, but we will continue to see animation that is aimed at more mature viewers. Comedy will be the majority, but perhaps we will see more action/ adventure and even dramatic productions as animation becomes more ubiquitous.
>
> 6. Are you glad that Adult Swim exists as a hub for adult animation?
Adult Swim is not the first such experiment in providing a place for alternative entertainment. The most positive aspect of the special network is that it created a demand for new shows and would actually buy them. The same can be said of Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon and Nick JR, too.
>
> 7. Whenever I say "adult animation" people think I mean porn. (While porn is great, this article isn't about it.) Netflix refers to it as "Animation for Grown-Ups." What do you call it, or suggest calling it?
Well, since animation is really just a way of making films, and it never should have been segregated to any particular age-group in the first place... I would juts call it animation, if someone wanted to know the method of production. Until the mistake has been corrected, "Animation for Grown-Ups" seems about as good as any label. Or maybe something like: "This show was made for Young Adult/Adult viewers.
>
> 8. Anything particularly salient you learned from any creators of adult animation, or the animation itself?
It's important to remember that the creators of animation which we regard as legendary were creating animation for adults. The famous theatrical short cartoons made at Warner Bros, MGM and Universal were not considered "kiddie fare" at all. It wasn't until TV stations began showing hacked-up versions on after-school shows that people started thinking of them as kid's stuff. People like Chuck Jones and Tex Avery were creative and brilliant artists and comedians. They were much like stand-up comics that could entertain and audience with bits of everyday life squashed and stretched into hilarious situations. I have spoken with Chris Sanders ("Lelo and Stitch", "How to Train Your Dragon") and he reminds me of Chuck and Tex a lot, though he reveres people like them and doubts he will ever reach their level or quality. When it comes to the creators of animation, most don't consider the age of their potential audience at all. They just wnat to tell their story and entertain.
> 9. Anything else you want to add?
Thanks you for asking for my input on your project. I hope you will find it useful.
>
> Thank you so much, and hopefully I will see you some time at PS!
One of the party attendees I spoke with a few months ago is working on a project about adult animation, and asked me to answer some questions based on the conversation we had. I was very flattered. :)
> I don't know if you remember me, but I've met you a few times at Prancing Skiltaire parties. To help you remember, I was the female. (Oh, also I'm tall, blonde, Slender-Horned Gazelle Fursona.) We talked a lot about animation, and you seemed very knowledgeable about the subject; I believe you said you met Tex Avery and interviewed Ralph Bakshi.
Yes, I certainly remember you. I enjoyed talking with you about animation, and would love to continue our conversation some time.
>
> I'm writing an alternative story form article on animation for my blog/journalism class. I thought I'd write about adult animation, and it's due Monday. Yes it's short notice, but headlines and deadlines are the way of the journalist. Would you mind answering these questions for me? I would be really grateful.
I'll give it my best shot...
>
> 1. What is your name, age, and occupation? What are your credentials related to animation? Work, interest, people you've interviewed or met?
Mark Merlino, 58, Communications Engineer. I'm an animation fan. I was interested in animation from the time I saw "Art in Animation" at Disneyland in 1959 (I was 7). While attending college and Cal Poly University, a met Chuck Jones at a lecture, and joined ASIFA Hollywood (The International Animated Film Society). During my last 2 years at Cal Poly, I spent my spare time in LA, visiting animation studios and tracking down the legends that were, surprisingly, still around and quite interested in speaking with me. I met and spoke with Bob Clampett, Fred (Tex) Avery, Chuck Jones, Mike Maltese, Stephen Bosustow, Ralph Bakshi, Don Christiansen, June Foray, Bill Scott, Carl Bell, Robert Klein, and many others. I collected art from 30 studios and artists for an art show at the Cal Poly student union gallery for my "Art Of Animation" show in June 0f 1975. Since the 1990s, animation fans have contributed their interest and knowledge to projects like the ASIFA archives, so the importance of fans is now well recognized by the education establishment and the production industry.
>
> 2. What do you think are the best animated movies for adults? Why?
This is tricky. I believe animation is a medium that can tell a story to anyone, of any age. It's only in the US where animation is considered "kids stuff". Films like "Fritz the Cat" and other Bakshi films like "Heavy Traffic" and "Coon Skin" broke the barrier of animation for adults with controversial content and earned R and X ratings. The quality of these films is open to debate. One of my favorite animated films is "Lupin III, Castle of Cagliostro". It's one of the famous Japanese film director Hayao Mizaki's films, and is an action/adventure story with no "adult" content (possibly PG), but it stands alone as a fine film that just happens to be animated. "Wings of Honneamise" (Royal Space Force) is a brilliant science fiction film with a documentary feel that would not be rated 'R', but is not a "kids film". The German animated feature based on the animal noir detective story "Felidae" is definitely NOT for children, with it's horrible scenes of animal cruelty, violence and sex, but it is a great film, and very loyal to the international best selling book. Both of Richard Adam's animal novels "Watership Down" and "Plague Dogs" were compelling dramatic stories (best selling novels) that became excellent animated films, but not for young children. These are some of the titles that I am familiar with. Certainly there are many more animated films that are targeted for young adults and adults, many coming form Japan and Europe.
Why? Because animation is the ultimate creative medium for film. The creators have complete control over every aspect of the work. The only limitation is imagination.
>
> 3. What do you think are the best animated shows for adults? Why?
Animated TV shows for an adult audience is a restrictively new thing, though prime-time animation for TV is not. Shows like "The Flintstones" were designed for family viewers, and based on classic sit-coms like "The Honeymooners". The humor in Jay Ward shows like "Rocky and Bullwinkle", George of the Jungle", and "Hoppity Hooper" was often way over the heads of younger viewers. Shows like "The Simpsons" and "Family Guy" are the new prime-time animated comedy shows, with even more content designed for older teens and adults. Cable networks had much more latitude when creating content, so after shows like "Ren and Stimpy" pioneered gross-out humor, shows like "South Park", "Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law" and "Drawn Together" played can-you-top-this with off-the-wall and tasteless referential humor that was specifically not for a young audience.
Why? Once again, animation allows total creative control. It is possible to create entertaining shows with very limited animation, so the production costs may be lower in some cases then live action.
>
> 4. Which ones do you think were particularly pivotal in the animation industry? Why?
Certainly Disney proved that it was possible to create full-length animated films that audiences would enjoy, and would make back their cost of production. UPA studio proved that limited animation could be as good a story teller as the expensive Disney feature product, and studios like Hanna Barbara, Jay Ward and Filmation proved it was possible to make animated TV shows that would be inexpensive to produce and still be popular. Today, the studios aren't as important as individual creators and teams that develop shows like Gargoyles, Swat Cats, Sponge Bob Square Pants and Samurai Jack. The studios only produce the shows, and just about any production house can make any kind of animation, much the process has been in Japan for decades.
> 5. What kind of effect do you think adult animation has on the public?
In the US, the huge output of animated media is creating an audience that either appreciates animation, or treats animation as a universal medium, not simply Kids Stuff. I doubt we will see animated pornography show up on major TV or even cable networks in the future, but we will continue to see animation that is aimed at more mature viewers. Comedy will be the majority, but perhaps we will see more action/ adventure and even dramatic productions as animation becomes more ubiquitous.
>
> 6. Are you glad that Adult Swim exists as a hub for adult animation?
Adult Swim is not the first such experiment in providing a place for alternative entertainment. The most positive aspect of the special network is that it created a demand for new shows and would actually buy them. The same can be said of Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon and Nick JR, too.
>
> 7. Whenever I say "adult animation" people think I mean porn. (While porn is great, this article isn't about it.) Netflix refers to it as "Animation for Grown-Ups." What do you call it, or suggest calling it?
Well, since animation is really just a way of making films, and it never should have been segregated to any particular age-group in the first place... I would juts call it animation, if someone wanted to know the method of production. Until the mistake has been corrected, "Animation for Grown-Ups" seems about as good as any label. Or maybe something like: "This show was made for Young Adult/Adult viewers.
>
> 8. Anything particularly salient you learned from any creators of adult animation, or the animation itself?
It's important to remember that the creators of animation which we regard as legendary were creating animation for adults. The famous theatrical short cartoons made at Warner Bros, MGM and Universal were not considered "kiddie fare" at all. It wasn't until TV stations began showing hacked-up versions on after-school shows that people started thinking of them as kid's stuff. People like Chuck Jones and Tex Avery were creative and brilliant artists and comedians. They were much like stand-up comics that could entertain and audience with bits of everyday life squashed and stretched into hilarious situations. I have spoken with Chris Sanders ("Lelo and Stitch", "How to Train Your Dragon") and he reminds me of Chuck and Tex a lot, though he reveres people like them and doubts he will ever reach their level or quality. When it comes to the creators of animation, most don't consider the age of their potential audience at all. They just wnat to tell their story and entertain.
> 9. Anything else you want to add?
Thanks you for asking for my input on your project. I hope you will find it useful.
>
> Thank you so much, and hopefully I will see you some time at PS!
